announcer: from the heart of renovation, money, and power telekom valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology" with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. ♪ caroline: i am caroline hyde at near headquarters in new york. ed: and i am ed ludlow in san francisco. caroline: we talk all things crypto. a letter of lawmakers saying

binance lied to congress. ed: a 20 billion opportunity in the face of regulatory opportunity. caroline: and we speak with the ceo of a company that helps -- today, bad news is good news. jobless claims are reaching higher. that calling of what is a very strong like -- labor market. what the federal reserve has to do to just calm down a very fiercely hot economy in the u.s. one point 2% on the nasdaq 100, as people hope we don't have to hike rates as fast as we think. we are seeing growth in other economies. the dollar is weaker versus the japanese yen because it grows faster than previously expected. let's go into one key risk

sentiment, which is the world of crypto. may be news is good news with bitcoin. still in that trading range, where locked at 26,700 at the moment. ed, i know you are digging into small-cap names that are moving today. ed: it's interesting the nasdaq 100 marches on, tech being a big driver of that. amazon moving to the upside 3%. one of the best performers. the topic at wells fargo margin view. amazon's price target also raised at ubs. ai benefits going through to the cloud division. the gamestop ceo is gone and they missed on sales. lucid is now actually moderately -- modestly higher up. it had been markedly higher earlier in the session. it will move into the chinese ev market. adobe, ai.

a subscription boosting the stock by about 5%. we will bring you details later in the program. i'm also continuing to look at coinbase. look at the shares of coinbase. we are up for a second straight session since the sec sued coinbase, accusing them of security laws breaches. we are up 1% at the moment. brian armstrong, the ceo, was on the show 24 hours ago, giving coinbase's defense, talking about what he is happy to go to court, and establish a baseline to the courts on how crypto exchange you should be governed in the country and also internationally. we will dig deep into the sector throughout the show. caroline: let's talk about a different crypto exchange. a pair of senate democrats are wanting the justice department to investigate whether binance lied to lawmakers about its business practices. let's have a listen. >> it is a crime to like to congress.

we have gotten information from binance. they have given answers to me and to others in congress that seemed to be entirely inconsistent with now what the sec is charging that binance has done. i want the justice department to take a look. if they lied to congress, they need to be held accountable. caroline: this news is over the sec suing the company and its cofounder. now is the cohost, kailey leinz here in the building, coming into help with the bloomberg investor event. what a week for crypto. why do we think we are hearing from these particular senators? what do they want done? katie: what they want is for the justice department to look into this matter. it basically comes down to the question whether binance u.s. actually operated independently from the global entity. that is what elizabeth warren and senator van hollen want to find out. but that's also included in the

allegations by both the sec and that cftc several months ago. allegations that these were not actually operating as separate entities. in the sec lawsuit, there's a bevy of other charges. misleading customers, co-mingling funds improperly, all of that. but what is important to note is that when the regulators put these cases forward, these are civil charges. when they ask the justice department to look at a something like perjury, that could be a criminal charge. caroline: the point being that who is responsible for this -- cz at the moment, he is out in the middle east. he has various bank accounts, we seem to understand. i know ed wants to get to that in a moment. what about the leadership of binance u.s. ultimately? katie: that's a good question. it was suppose to be operating independently. a lot of pushback against that notion has been placed on regulators and lawmakers as

well. as you said, he is in the middle east at the moment. there's also another doj investigation ongoing into potential sanctions violations. it will become a question of whether there was actually something brought to the doj, what potentially extradition might look like. there's a lot of questions around the individual, it in addition to the broader exchange, which is the biggest in the world. when the justice department is asking for a freeze of binance assets, we have to think of how this could impact the broader system. ed: overnight, cathie wood joined our colleagues over in asia on that programming. as we know, she has been adding to holdings of coinbase. it's is what she had to say about the breadth of the situation. >> it is unfortunate that the sec took action against coinbase the day after binance, and then chairman gensler, he was on one of the major news channels. he was trying to implicate coinbase in the same way that he

was implicating binance. no, they are very different. ed: we remind ourselves that in the same way, the sec sued both coinbase and binance. interesting, brian armstrong's comments 24 hours ago, saying this is conflating the two different suits. katie: the binance allegations are far wider ranging. oath were accused of violating securities laws, but that in the product is what coinbase was facing. then, it becomes a definition question about what is and is not a security, and ultimately the jury does -- the jurisdiction of the sec. i was on capitol hill with the error culture committee. they are trying to delineate jurisdiction between the cftc having control digital commodities and the sec, when it comes to digital securities.

many of the lawmakers i spoke with at that hearing suggested that the timing was interesting. one of them, a republican, was saying that it seems like gary gensler is trying to empire builder train and he is tried to front run congress by taking all this action at this time. ed: this is bloomberg, so we follow the money. it is interesting to join the dots in 2023. i think back to silver gate and bloomberg reported that there is a $70 billion trail as it relates to binance and those two banks. katie: we know that they are no longer in existence, they both failed earlier in the spring. we now understand via an sec filing that was filed in support of the motion to freeze the assets of binance u.s. that $70 billion was funneled through both silver gate and signature bank by binance and related equities. i believe it was $50 billion of deposits at silver gate, then

another $19 billion moving and a couple of days. it's unclear whether or not those banks actually flagged some of those transactions or not. but as you say, just kind of following the money trail of this as the sec puts forward these allegations and asks for that injunction. ed: kailey leinz visiting us from new york. we will talk with chris, a big-name out in d.c. also, in a relationship with coinbase that we will get into. shares from alpha back, the google parent company, reporting that google will consider attendance reviews and send reminders to employees that have frequent axis -- absences. ♪

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>> there's plenty of innovation we could point to and say there's enormous opportunity to have another industrial revolution that would just be more of a digital revolution. that could produce a lot of productivity, but we need something in the economy. caroline: the artificial intelligence revolution that we were discussing, he was talking about it on bloomberg "invest." stanley druck and miller also at our event. unlike crypto, ai is real. what does that mean about crypto? you took to our poll yesterday.

does ai have more staying power than crypto? i was amazed by how can everything was. 39% says staying power, 37% says many will fail, when he 4% says it's too early to tell. a great new podcast on the downfall of ftx. is crypto showing resiliency? it's interesting that bitcoin has not been marred to much by some of the pushback from an sec level. >> we have seen some resilience, and there are obviously founders that are very confident in crypto. we have seen this shift where some crypto founders and some crypto vcs are driving more into the intersection between crypto and ai. that has been really exciting to track. caroline: of course they are. i remember that mean that that -- that meme that everyone is a crypto expert all of a sudden. hannah: people see a lot of

promise in blockchain at for identity. there is a start up tools for humanity." they developed world coin, which will be proof of personhood. you can use this blockchain to show you are indeed human. they also scan your eyeballs in order to create this identity. caroline: a lot of mixed concerns about that. i was at an event in new york and saw someone with a helmet on from world coin. hannah: there are concerns about the sensitivity of this biometric data. is it safe, is it being protected? i do think we see some ethical concerns within ai leading over into the intersection between ai and crypto. caroline: for now, both being tied up for -- eyed up. >> i am envious of hannah miller. that is a great beach to have. everyone that was funneling money into that space has just

pivoted. we are reporting, with a good guest to talk about this. crystal hain, also a member of crypto base's advisory council. the sec is suing coinbase, alleging security breaches. what does your role in tail? chris: they have announced it is bipartisan, it has democrats and republicans. it is global. my specific role is i have a bit of a background of having worked with disruptive, innovative companies, trying to work within the system in a responsible way, to bring relic -- regulatory certainty. ed: people also call you a political operator. chris: [laughter] that's certainly one part of it. politics does ultimately impact,

as it should, and inform policy, which ultimately brings regulatory certainty. a lot of what i have done over my career, i have been in government, i have run major campaigns. i advise innovative companies that are disrupting the status quo. how can they do that in a really responsible way? i think coinbase in the crypto space has been the lead on that platform. u.s.-based, going through the processes, working with regulators. it is disruptive. it is trying to update the financial system. that's a big deal. but it is time to do it in a responsible way. ed: brian armstrong 24 hours ago was asked about the timing of the sec filing suits against both coinbase and find -- and binance. the word he used was "conflated." what is your reaction to the timing of those two actions? chris: i grew up in maine. wiest to have a saying. when you go to bed at night and there is no snow on the ground,

and you wake up and there is snow, you can pretty rightly assume that it snowed overnight. i think both democrats and republicans have expressed concern about the timing of this. i will say this, as someone who has been in government. historically, in this country, our regulators and overseas financial sectors, have understood by design to be empires, to call balls and strikes. you take something that is apples, something oranges, conflating them and putting them together, doing that right before a major congressional hearing, to actually begin bringing clarity to this space, i think that raises some serious, profound questions. our system works because there is a rule of law. part of that rule of law is those umpires calling those strikes fairly. i think real questions have been raised. ed: rules. i remember two years ago, when

coinbase filed to go public. they wrote that there is a high degree of uncertainty. brian armstrong is welcoming the opportunity to go to court and use that to set a precedent. is that a good idea, a good way of resolving this? chris: ultimately, you have to break eggs to make the omelette on this. i do think one way or the other, either through the legal process or through legislation, you are going to get clarity. ed: which is better? chris: in my view, the country should have a first principle approach. there should be a strategic approach to how you want to deal with this industry. the rest of the world is actually moving forward really fast with frameworks in place. they specifically want to be crypto hubs because they understand this will be a big part of the financial rails of the future. if you default to a legal process, companies like coinbase

will get clarity. i think it is far better from a u.s. perspective, from an economic, competitive perspective, from a national security perspective, if you actually do this with a real strategy. i was involved in the 1996 telco act. president bill clinton took a big step back and said, hey, let's have a first principles approach, i want tech to be based in the united states. he put forth legislation and got it done in a bipartisan way. flash forward to where we are today. the u.s. has emerged as the center of the global economy because we are the center of tech. ed: paradoxically, emphasis on the word "local" in your title of advisor. how does coinbase color -- grow itself outside of the united states? what do you advise them to do? chris: i think you have done a great job diversifying where they are and their products.

brian armstrong has been doing a great job. he has been in london, in dubai, in brazil. these are all places they are putting trademarks in place. the u.k. has an announcement today about the next steps in its process. the pm, prime ministers sunak, has made clear that he wants london to be a hub. you think of the historic rails that have existed in london going back several hundred years. one of the first central banks was developed in london, the bank of england. think of the commonwealth and the roles that crypto could play in actually advancing that system. i think sunak actually sees enormous opportunity here and has talked about it. japan has moved forward with specific regulations and activity. you see what's happening. there was a recent report from another venture firm here in the valley and they indicated that the u.s. is losing market share of crypto developers. one million jobs, high quality

engineering jobs on the table in the next several years, will they take place here or what we send them offshore? it was an interesting week for us. we announced a project that we are invested in. it is a computer gaming platform built on blockchain. the founder of this is a young 20-year-old. he came from indonesia at the age of 16 years old to california for the science program. he graduated early. he is literally who you want. ed: where is he? chris: he is here in the u.s., building this, like we want people. ed: stanley druckenmiller -- chris lehane, never enough time with you. this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: time now for talking

tech. first up, do you want to make use of your car when you are not using it yourself? if her has plans for that. it will use uber car share. it will say -- it says it will make its business more sustainable. the company wants to cut emissions, too, to zero. it once to convert its entire fleet of cars to electric by any 40. >> tesla's are the highest selling cars, in terms of electric vehicles, by a mile. at the same time, we want elective vacation to happen. it's not just going to happen with tesla. we need ford's out there, gm's out there, toyotas out there, etc. we need all of these other players to go electric. caroline: meanwhile, adobe says it is willing to take up certain legal fees for its users with its new artificial intelligence tools for users. they have legal assurance against copyright infringement

claims. sources say video content app is banking on rapid growth in southeast asia, in particular the likes of indonesia. expansion in europe or here in the u.s. is also expected. it is interesting, considering the legal pushback's we are getting from lawmakers in both particular regions. ed: i want to stick with this company and this story. we track it closely with sarah frier. they're just plowing on, despite the regulatory headwind. sarah: it is really fascinating that this is an area where a lot of their competitors have stumbled on. we have seen instagram try social shopping, we have seen youtube and a lot of other attempts at getting u.s. users and european users to mix their scroll with getting their credit card out. it just has not worked as well in the u.s. as it has in china. that is not to say tiktok cannot make it work. of course, they have great

success in all of these endeavors that we thought they might not do well at. but one reason they need to is because the advertising business, just like it is for everyone else, is slowing. caroline: a good diversification point there. it also would not be bad to get big u.s.-european retailers liking the business model. sarah: i don't get will be bad. i think also, when you look at this $20 billion number, they are not really relying on the u.s. and europe to get there. they are relying on southeast asia, in particular indonesia, where this behavior is very strong. for this year, it is really going to be a test case in the u.s. and europe. but they are hoping to get to that $20 billion mostly by expansion in those markets. caroline: getting some other key voices perhaps to fight for you remaining within certain companies and operating would not be a negative outcome for them. sarah frier, great to have her

on. coming up, we will talk revenue in a different area. revenue in an intelligence area gone. more that with the ceo up next, amit bendov. this is bloomberg. ♪ avalarahhh ahhh

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great, property taxes again. what's this? ownwell? they'll appeal my property taxes for me? sounds too good to be true. they use local tax experts and ai technology to maximize savings. but what's this going to cost? oh, i only pay if i save! oh, ownwell! they saved me a bunch of money last year. you should try it. all right, ashley. i'll go try ownwell right now.

caroline: welcome back to bloomberg "technology." ed: paying attention to the markets. a lot of green on the screen. look at the nasdaq 100. you talked about earlier. it is a case of good news is bad news, or bad news is good news, as it relates to economic data and the fed. jobless claims coming in higher than expected last week. yields pulling back a little bit.

bitcoin staying at around $26,000 u.s. there has been a lot of volatility with what's going on with the sec, binance, and coinbase. i actually want to take another look at adobe. i know we have the details on what's going on in terms of the subscription for their genitive ai offering. we are up 5% now. it is the second best performer in the s&p 500. i think that is so interesting. another day, another headline. investors seem to buy it. caroline: they come thick and fast. we want to talk about the later -- the latest genitive ai announcement. one company uses it to help sales team generate sales growth. here to discuss the product and

its own ai models, ceo amit bendov. thank you for joining us at how long was this in the making? recently throwing out new announcements because everyone has got one or is this something you have been building a while? amit: i have been building this since 2015. i realized i was the ceo of a company here in new york city and our people are spending too much time entering customer information into our system. 99% of the work does not get done and they hate it. my thinking was, if ai can beat the world champion in chess and if ai can diagnose cancer data than a doctor, why can't it do all of this drudgery better than people? that was the idea for "gong" and that is what we have been building ever since. caroline: if you have been building on these announcements since 2015, does it frustrate you that yesterday, we had someone else on yesterday and

the day before, and they all have their own announcements? amit: it excites me. why would it frustrate me. now, we don't have to prove ai can replace people's work. we need to reduce costs with ai. it provides use validation. we are excited. we think every company is going to have something with ai. the question is, what are you doing with it? it is super helpful and exciting. caroline: to that point, what really got everyone realizing the potential of ai is chat-gpt. why are you basing it on your own genitive ai model, your own proprietary data? amit: great question. we have about 60 models. we also use open-ai's model, but we have special-purpose models for almost everything, from understanding speech,

punctuating text, summaries, identifying action items, recommending people within an organization. when you train specific models, you can get much more specific accuracy and reliability, rather than relying on public domain knowledge. ed: have you started thinking about efficiencies? and eliminating roles at your company because of the impact that these tools will have? amit: 70% of customer-facing time is wasted on nonproductive work. it seems like updating records, internal meetings, sifting through records. these people are making six figures. it does not make sense to go along with saying ai can replace that. our users, they love that they don't have to do this drudgery. they can spend more time with

customers. it does not necessarily mean eliminating jobs. it means eliminating drudgery from our day-to-day. ed: you talk about being technology agnostic. 60 llm's you are utilizing. what is it like doing business with open-ai? is it good money for you? i'm not sure what you use. amit: they have been a great partner. we've been working with them for over a year. and allows us early access to the stuff and allows us to use them for the application. they have been wonderful to work with. we are excited that they are successful in helping prove to the world that ai is real and can make a huge difference. ed: since you have shown your hand in your competence of generative ai tools, how any of your invested -- investors have found you, asked if you should raise more money, ask about your valuation? do you have a higher valuation

now that ai is attached to business? amit: we have raised plenty of money. we have raised 600 million dollars to date, even before ai was cool. people saw the user excitement and the value that "gong" is creating. we are not raising right now. and we are not burning a ton of money. but definitely, there's a ton of inbound interest. there's no shortage of people that want to invest. they recognize the massive tectonic shifts that we are expanding right now. caroline: we came to you with a look at adobe and the fact that they are willing to take some legal risk on board. we are beset with, what are the ratifications of generative ai, the copyright, the bias, the negative repercussions? how are you thinking about that with your business? amit: ai is powerful and needs to be regular. we put a lot of effort on both privacy, security, disclosure of information.

the system needs to be helpful and not threatening to people. everything is transparent. i think every company should put regulatory control both at a company level and a country and global level. caroline: great to have some time with you. amit bendov, the ceo of "gong." rishi sunak is on a diplomatic visit right here to the u.s. his seekers that she is seeking stronger economic ties with the u.s. he is also seeking a leadership role with the government regulation of ai. on that note, president biden will hold a joint press conference with rishi sunak in just about an hours time. you can tune in on the terminal, if you are lucky enough to have one. ed: coming up, more on the ai. the investing side this time. bucky moore, that is next.

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ed: already filled intentions -- artificial intelligence companies have raised mixed

capital from strategic investors. i know via capital -- existing investor index ventures and others. the start is valued at 2.1 billion dollars to $2.2 billion, according to a bloomberg source. let's stick with the world of vc and ai bucky moore. let's bring in, has been focused on investments across computing and ai for quite some time. welcome to the program. i've always just wanted to sit down with you and say, what's going on in your world? bucky: thank you so much for having me here. in terms of what is going on in our world, we are amidst a change that ai is driving, in terms of how technology is impacting our working and personal lives. i think when we see a generational shift like this as venture capitalists, we get really excited. what we are focused on is

partnering with innovative visionary founders that have a unique interview in how to bring this technology to big markets. and in doing so, hopefully making our working and personal lives more interesting, and efficient. ed: i want to look at your companies and the types of exits. what can i conclude you are focused on you? ai native or ai adjacent companies? every software company is now saying, i am an ai company. bucky: i consider myself to be an infrastructure investor. that means i am powering these for structure businesses. i think this is another underpinning that changes how software gets developed, the kind of software in our working and personal lives, and ultimately bring all these new capabilities the world that we have not seen before. i'm thinking of it from that lens, as another piece of infrastructure. caroline: go deeper us for a moment. reading your note that you put out each year, back at the end of february, he put it out.

even then, you are talking about the impact of ai and integrating it into software built for storage. where, for you, starts to attract to you for allocating money right now? you must be besieged with opportunities. bucky: taking a step back, we think about the space in three layers. at the bottom layer, you have hardware and software that allows us to deliver on computing platforms. at the layer above that, you have tooling and infrastructure that allows us to integrate this into the software to make it usable and accessible. at the very top layer, what you have are applications. examples of this include companies like gleam, who is bringing language models to searches. what we see time and time again is that value can accrue at all three layers in that stack. as an infrastructure investor, what i am very focused on are those bottom two layers.

infrastructure allows us to deliver computing platforms that ultimately make it fault -- make it possible to develop and train these models. vector databases make it possible for developers to integrate these into their applications. caroline: those models, in particular the foundational models, does it matter whether we end up going more toward proprietary models and open-ai, does it end up being more open source, do we have more of a hugging face situation? does it matter? kleiner perkins made its name backing huge companies that are deep within ai. are they going to eat all the lunch or is there room for startups? bucky: i think it absolutely matters. it matters a lot. time and time again, what we have seen is that the technology that comes along as this, it tends to trend toward commoditization. and that is the proliferation of open source to these models that

we are really starting to see more and more often actually stand up to the capabilities that developers are looking for when pursuing use cases with ai. i think it matters a lot. i hope and believe we will enter a world where we are going to have best in class models that are proprietary in nature, from the likes of companies like open-ai and so on. then, we are going to have a vast landscape of open source models. they make this technology accessible to anyone. ed: there is temptation for us to spend the entire show talking about ai. but other things are going on in your rope. the story of the week is sequoia splitting into three businesses. i know that kleiner perkins has china business that operates separately as well. if we tight to ai, we recognize there on a per neighbors in china doing things in the field of ai as well. bucky: the venture capital industry continues to evolve and has evolved over the past few decades. one of the ways it has evolved

is growing a lot in size. our view is the focus on a winning formula. focus on stage, sector, in geography. the kleiner perkins that you see today is one thinking through that lens of focus and strategy. i think that is where we will be for many years to come. that is ultimately what we think the reading -- the winning formula is in this business. ed: i know crypto is not the medical your area, but what we hear from the vcs that come on this program is that all the inbound has disappeared and the outbound is going to ai. i'm wondering what your view was on that. bucky: i think all of the regulatory conversations going on with respect to crypto make it a very uncertain place for new businesses to be built. i think what you're starting to see is a shift in attention toward ai, which is very fertile ground by comparison at the moment. my hope is that the regular tory conversation comes to a head in a way that continues to allow people to innovate in that space as well. but what we are seeing now is undoubtedly skewed toward ai. caroline: i hate to bring it up,

but ai do mers -- doomers or optimists, what do you make about the worry about the destruction of humanity or the more near-term risks of bias and other risks that are currently be involved in this situation and the way we apply ai? bucky: i think it's absolute the critical that as we shape the future of this technology, both from innovation and regulatory, both those sites come together so that one another's perspectives are heard and we can balance safety and innovation as we move the regulatory landscape forward run this technology. if we skew one way or the other too far, the outcome will be suboptimal. i think that balance is really what i am looking for an optimistic we will find as an industry. caroline: bucky moore, it was great having you. really cerebral there. more venture capitalists coming for you. i will be sitting down with

rebecca. you don't want to miss it. history met. everyone is here in new york. emily chang will be telling us about the new bloomberg originals program she is hosting and some of the guests she has gotten to speak to, including former twitter executives. but all of these people are in new york. they are all here to suffer currently what is some pretty bad breathing air quality. having a quick look at new york city schools. they're currently saying they will be remote construction day for students tomorrow, june 9. air quality currently 177. it is improving, but for now, it is still a high risk. this is bloomberg. ♪ is he hailing a ride to the concert hall? no. he's making sure his portfolio and retirement plans work in harmony. they want to adopt a child and build a new home. so they're talking numbers with their merrill adviser.

she's not researching her next role. she's learning how to handle market ups and downs without the drama. personalized advice so impressive your money never stops working for you with merrill. a bank of america company.

caroline: it has been more than 72 hours now since elon musk past that torch over to the new twitter ceo after a pretty tumultuous reign as the head of the company he took over. and the premiere of a new bloomberg original series, emily chang sits down with the former ceo evan williams and jason goldman, one of the most critical members of twitter's founding to discuss the move. here's a peek at tonight's episode. >> yeah, it was surprising. i trying to remember the first bursting on or if i was even

aware of it. >> the idea that he was going to buy the company to me was like, oh, he's not going to be serious. kind of like how you put a reservation on a fancy sports car. >> there have been a couple of moments where i thought i started this thing with a couple people a long time ago in this little office and then the world's richest man bought it. it is this big news story. how did that happen? that's weird. >> was there any part of you that was like, well, this is interesting? >> i like interesting things to happen. i'm not a fan of how things stay how they are. that is why we are intact. twitter had been getting better and better. the trajectory of improvements in the year or two prior to elon, but then elon, holy moly, he does crazy things. this will be interesting and fun. we will see what happens. [laughter] >> we may differ on this.

>> i mean, i was just concerned because everything he was talking about that he wanted to do with the product seemed every lightly considered. we have to defeat all the bots and there's all this stuff about the culture war. but it became clear over time that that is his primary interest in owning a platform, to push his own a particular cultural issues and own personal use of the product he wants to make better. >> so how you feel about what he has done so far? >> i don't think he has dialed it quite right yet. >> it has gone pretty poorly. objectively speaking, the move was fast. it was belied by most of the things that he pushed out the door, like twitter blue. make sure you amplify my tweets so that everyone sees them. if you own the product, you can do that, it's just a curious way to product management caroline: guess who is here to talk more. they can laugh and be

lighthearted, but it is emotional. there were people in the trenches who is deeply emotional 4-8 and you got to speak to them, too. >> it was interesting. one started off with, i was interested, maybe it could be cool. but when i actually -- when actually happen, i was sad. i did not think it was going to happen and i was surprised by my own emotion. he added that, yes, elon musk is brilliant, but no one is brilliant about everything. i did speak to four former employees, a couple who were fired, one who was laid off, one who resigned. they were also sad. i think there is this grief at what could have been. and the idea that twitter is never going to be what it once was, even if it was not perfect. even if it had a lot of work to do and things needed to be changed, we are not going back to that. i think it's going be hard. ed: one of the few perks of this job is that i have seen the full episode. no spoilers here. >> [laughter] ed: but it's really authentic.

those are two well-known names. they balance acknowledging that twitter needed to change with it not being a success so far. what else can we expect in the series to come? what kinds of personalities and observations? emily: as you both know, i've posted the show for a really long time. it was amazing to talk to all these people over the course of 12 years. what i really wanted to do with the circuit is go out into the field and spend time with these people who are making huge decisions that are affecting the lives of millions and billions of people. we are going to the ceo of airbnb's home. we are seeing natalie portman there, who just founded a women's soccer team, talking about how to apply tech models to women's sports. we are going inside open-ai. it was just a huge opportunity to talk about how tech is changing at this moment in time. ed: no spoilers, but emily and i will be doing twitter later this

evening. we will give you more details. emily chang, great to see. new episodes of "the circuit" airing every thursday at 10 p.m. that is it for bloomberg "technology." this is bloomberg. ♪ ahhhhhh filing sales tax returns? ahhhhhh business license guidance? ahhhhhh -cross-border sales? -ahhhhhh -item classification? -ahhhhhh does it connect with acc...? ahhhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhh

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caroline: this is "bloomberg equality." romaine: every thursday in june we are broadening coverage to bring an all-inclusive look at what social equity and equality mean for companies, investors, and ultimately for the collective global prosperity. the divisive politics around gender identity. caroline: today we will focus on artificial intelligence. computer scientists