then you don't stop. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, it's overwhelming. it's everything. >> from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i am caroline hyde in new york. ed: i am ed ludlow in san francisco, this is bloomberg technology. caroline: former alibaba heavyweights returned to the company as it prepares for restructuring and spinoff. we discussed with brian wong himself and author of "the tao of alibaba."

ed: we will discuss ai regulation and investing in technology as president biden prepares to meet with leaders in california this week. caroline: we will bring you updates on the missing titan submarine, the search is racing to find the diving vessel with five people on board and expedition to view the tech to next brick. this check in on the markets, we are trading lower, almost two thirds of a percent with the nasdaq off, more broadly people are questioning valuations. some of the key reports coming out, feeling perhaps we are overblown. we are adding to that today. 10 year yield coming up by four basis points, housing stats are showing strengthening in the underlying u.s. economy. overall, starting to push back into the bond market today, not pushing into chinese names at the moment.

the nasdaq golden dragon is underwater by almost 5%, we will talk as to why alibaba is on the downside. chinese names in general are selling off. let us move on and have a look at the risk asset in the crypto world, currently up 1.2% on bitcoin. trending at 27 thousand overall, looking for some sort of key back into the 30,000 level. dig into some micros to watch. ed: some tech names are doing deals, rivian will adopt tesla's charging standard, an agreement to access the supercharging network. it is off session highs, but was at the highest level since march. we will give you details later in the program. kkr is buying $40 billion worth of paypal's buy now pay later loans, being supportive of that stock.

we will bring you more on the story later in the program. numbered reporting that spotify drops a premium tier, there will be a hi-fi audio element, not supporting the stock, down 2.8%. there is a technology story, it is alibaba, a shakeup in overnight. you can see what it is doing, down 5%. the biggest decline in around a month. daniel moves out of the ceo role , then the executive vice chair moving to chairman of the board and they are bringing in eddie wu, and he becomes the ceo in this split structure. lots happening as alibaba thinks about complete restructuring. ed: it is one to be watching, we are going to dig and more with someone who served for a long time in the business and has written about it. brian wong is with us, author of "the tao of alibaba," the 52nd

employee to join. a real focus on globalization. what is so interesting is when you look at the analysts reviewing the moves, they feel as though the spirit of jack is here. what do you think the signal is? brian: i do think -- first of all, it is great to be with all of you and thank you for having me. i think the decision is an important one and a strong signal to the market, but also the company that yes, it is back to the roots of alibaba, the culture, the original drivers of what motivates the business and bringing those who have a strong understanding of where it all started and individuals who contributed to building what the company is today from the very start. ed: how closely did you work with josiah, eddie and daniel

during your time? brian: joe is the individual who hired me, jack i served as special assistant of globalization for a number of years. daniel i have known since he joined, so all of these individuals are people and eddie has been there from the start, he is one of the cofounders of the company. he worked with jack before jack even started alibaba when he was at the company at jack's first internet company. i have known all of these individuals. caroline: let us dig in, with eddie in particular. he moves really to a focus to leadership. what do you think at this moment we will be seeing from a ceo when we are thinking of the restructuring of the business. does that stand, has it been outlined by daniel previously? brian: the decision to split the company into six parts remains

the plan. the question is who would need the holding company alibaba group, which is more of an investment holding company then an operational company. eddie brings a number of strengths to the company today. a very strong technology background, playing the cto role and technology leader for companies from alibaba.com to alimama, the key driver for the ad system for taobao back in the day and served on the boards at companies like alihealth. to be able to construct this network under alimama and service general manager, he has done investments, he has his own fund he set up in 2015, he has seen every angle of the business not just in china, but also the

world outside of china from a technology standpoint. he has gained the stills -- skills required for a ceo in this role and brings understanding of culture, which is so important in terms of the longevity of the business. ed: brian wong coming test from shanghai, 52nd employee at alibaba. i find daniel the most interesting, he gets to take the lead of the crown jewel. do we read that as a demotion? brian: i would see that as a vote of confidence. i think any individual who would be the ceo and chairman of the most important business within this sort of organization and try to run the holding company at the same time is a superhuman , probably an inhuman task to expect them to do both.

i think daniel himself suggested focuses on the operations of alicloud and managing the business to success. he could do that and other businesses that he has run, so i would look at it as a vote of confidence and allowing daniel to really help the company take what is most important forward and become successful, particularly when they are spinning up the company. ed: who can navigate the political landscape of china most capably? brian: well, i think in today's market, what is really important is being able to build a business admits to changing regulatory environment. i think that requires skill and confidence. also, being able to work within the system, that is a group

effort. not one individual, but a team as a whole that has expertise and understanding different aspects. eddie has a collection of those skills. but i think this also comes into play with a larger organization and will assist in guiding and the six business unit heads, each of them responsible for individual units and each of the industries has unique regulatory considerations. caroline: let us focus on the man who hired you, joe. he understands the relationship between the u.s. and china, many know him here as the brooklyn nets owner, owner of significant real estate here in new york city. i am interested in his relationship with investors and relationship in navigating political and geopolitics at large when it comes to the

tensions between the u.s. and china. brian: i think joe as chairman is a fantastic choice. he is an investor, that is where his original sort of focus was prior to alibaba, but he is a trained lawyer who has an understanding of good governance and how to navigate this regulatory system. he is international, he is educated in the united states, worked all over the world. he has the sensitivity and understanding of how to balance these things. in a chairman role, that is when organization as big as alibaba needs and one that has international aspirations. he is in a very good position, given his background and skills, to play that role and help bridge the company from china to the world and vice versa. ed: brian wong live from

shanghai, thank you for your time. coming up, the other big story. ai regulation, president biden's in san francisco meeting executives and academics from the field of ai, we will discuss next. this is bloomberg. ♪

ed: president biden heading to california for a meeting with his misleaders and experts in artificial intelligence later today in san francisco. comes in the administration pushes companies to develop new

security and privacy safeguards for the technology. we have another meeting, we had 16 weeks ago boasted by the vice president. we had frameworks in the interim , does this mean we might get concrete rules from this administration on the field of ai? >> concrete rules will be up to congress. the administration has been good at is gathering information, like the president is doing today. talking to industry leaders and companies and trying to understand what we hear all the time in washington, risk and opportunities associated with ai. we have seen the in framework from standards and technology, from the white house's own bill of rights on ai. you can see how they are using the information to frame the policies they are putting out, but this is guiding documents. in order to pass binding rules that will obligate the companies to certain practices, that is up

to congress. caroline: the agitation over ai regulation in many ways has the ghost of social media policy, really, and it. i'm interested as to how much congress, lawmakers and regulators have gone up the hill of what artificial intelligence is, how it processes -- poses risks and might be regulated. anna: you see lawmakers haunted by the ghost of social media failures, where they have not been able to pass the most basic underlying data privacy understanding at the federal level. senators be the first to say we have not done the most basic necessary to regulate the internet since 1996, as there is a defeatist attitude going into discussions about ai technology. where they are now is in the education phase. chuck schumer has scheduled three briefings for the summer to explain to lawmakers what ai

is, where we are, the innovation race and how we could use in military settings. we are in the information gathering phase as lawmakers try to get a grasp on the new technology. caroline: thank you for bringing us the sticking points for congress and the white house, let us talk about artificial intelligence a little more. softbank in particular, his company is in a position to win. the race to master ai, thanks to the billions of dollars of tech investments, some would say have gone a little sour. softbank will not be deterred by a few short-term losses. we will rule the world in the end. thus far who has been ruling in terms of investment, hilary frisch is with us. it is great to have you in the studio. the hype cycle is clearer, everyone is getting into various ai related names from an investment pieces.

how much are you thinking about future regulation with an investment opportunity? hilary: it is so good to be here. it is a terrific question, we think about it quite a bit. we are very early in the stages of discovering what regulation would look like and how that will impact the sector. however, in this particular case, there is going to be quite a bit of help to the government, provided to the government by the companies that are major providers of ai services and products. microsoft for openai, they are big proponents for government regulation. i think you're going to see a somewhat symbiotic relationship between entities and -- in terms of bringing appropriate regulation to ai. caroline: the son of softbank saying we are going to rule the world in terms of ai, a large part of investment is in our holdings. all of these things are global in nature.

is there a race that is going on, or is the u.s. the dominant force? doesn't matter from the investment thesis perspective? hilary: there is a race going on, that will form part of how that guides regulation in terms of how it overseas ai's development. at the end of the day, regulation is global in nature, as we are seeing in a variety of instances. we will see various governing bodies come together to figure out how to oversee ai, at least in terms of western nations. we will see who is leading in the end. ed: good afternoon to you in new york, does your research point you to any single one name or couple of names that you think are best positioned to win the ai race? hilary: another great question. we think they're going to be a variety of names you benefit. we are early on in the process,

so far nvidia and microsoft have stood out in terms of leaders positioning the product line to early on from betting ai services throughout and capitalizing on the ai opportunity, but there are a variety that benefit up and down the chain. when it comes down to is if a company has a unique and important data set, if they are embedded in customer processes and workflows and equipped to help customers deploy ai in a safe and efficient manner, they should win and this is going to involve all hyper-scale platforms, including microsoft, amazon, google and oracle, who has an interesting play on ai. ed: we talk about oracle much less than any on this program, and it has hit a fresh record high. to play this scenario out for

us, why is oracle kind of a winner in the ai debate? hilary: oracle is a next-generation cloud taking many of the next-generation practices that providers learned learned during their process. it has a unique take on how it architect infrastructure with how i would call it network heavy capabilities, which would be quite valuable in ai. we are going to have a. of perforation of need of infrastructure buildout to accommodate the high data volumes ai will bring to us. oracle will be well-equipped to handle that, along with microsoft and others. oracle announced some important partnerships with a company and nvidia, which will bring big dividends to them over time. they are more recent but important emerging beneficiary. caroline: we want to talk about

how expensive stocks are, we do not want to talk about how expensive it is to run the large language models. are these companies pricing it right at the moment? hilary: it is such an interesting question, they are thinking about how to price it in. there seem emerging pricing come out in the marketplace. so far, they are doing a good job in terms of pricing for ai enabled services is quite high. in the case of apis, they were multiples of what traditional api would be to access the data with the models. ai enabled applications are priced anywhere from 30% to 80% plus, but there is real value in them because of the productivity benefits that accrue to the users. at the end of the day, they are starting to do a good job of providing the opportunity for profit, as well as revenue

acceleration, as a result of the uptake of ai. salesforce introduced pricing of ai enabled applications last week and those are going to have a perceived component and usage component. you are going to see more creative models around ai and where there is productivity to be cornered and customers will pay. ed: thank you so much for your time. coming up, we will talk more about the chip sector. agreeing to subsidies worth 10 million euros, this is bloomberg. ♪ when you automate sales tax with avalara, you don't have to worry about things like changing tax rates, exemption certificates or filing returns. avalarahhh ahhh ahhh

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ed: the international festival of creativity is underway. while it usually attracts the most influential executives in

advertising and platforms, two notable names will not be in attendance. elon musk and twitter's new ceo, this is the social network to win back spending on the platform. on tuesday, twitter announced it will explore solutions from companies that specialize in tracking the quality. sticking with musk, he is likely to meet with india's prime minister today on a visit to the u.s.. the private meeting is expected to take place early evening in new york and comes after tesla and india revived dialogue in may following a year-long standoff. germany will finance a subsidy package worth $10.9 billion for a planned intel facility for special claim and transformation fund, that according to people familiar with the plans. what is the latest on this one? >> this investment of 10 billion euros in subsidies from the german government is going to be

brought forward by 30 billion euros as a direct investment, the largest foreign direct investment in germany's history from any company. intel will be putting forward 30 billion euros of its own money into this investment and that is critical because this is a project that has been a long time in the works. it was put on pause because intel said the costs were getting too high. originally, they committed to $17 billion with subsidies of $17 billion with 6.8 billion euros in subsidies from the german government. they went back to the negotiation table because they were saying it is costing them too much coming economic headwinds are hitting the company. this is a question as well for how much germany is willing to front for the companies to onshore a lot of chip production. caroline: great roundup, thank you. coming out, talking more about

politics and technology. president biden heading to san francisco to push for safeguards on artificial intelligence. we have anu bradford, this is bloomberg. ♪ which saved investors over $1.5 billion last year. that's decision tech. only from fidelity. ♪ ♪ the vehicles are all-electric. the feeling is all mercedes. the choice is all yours. see your dealer for exceptional offers today. we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal,

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ed: welcome back to bloomberg technology. caroline: let us get back to the markets halfway through the trading day, let us check in on risk aversion coming into the market. questioning valuations in large part, nasdaq 100 off by 2/10 of a percent. the s&p 500 just falling off the 14 month high we saw it hitting last week. adding its voice to the worrying about valuations in the technology space, citigroup saying that positioning is bullish. people have pause ahead of jay powell's testimony coming in hot on wednesday and thursday.

oil falling a little bit, coin up -- piquant up more than 2%. individual names, because we have seen the juggernauts of china on the downside. we reported about alibaba, how they are changing the guard. we saw china and perhaps the stimulus not living up to expectations. paypal getting a lift, maybe some money being freed up to spend on share repurchases. they are offloading loans in europe that originated for by now, pay later services to kkr, back and perhaps feedback to their own businesses or investor base. amazon up by 6/10 of a percent. interesting from morgan stanley saying it is beauty dominance showing itself, it could be the

number one place for market share in terms of beauty, outstripping even the likes of walmart. ed: it is interesting to see the geopolitical play out, let us stick with that. antony blinken says he expects to see more communications between washington and beijing following his visit to china, where he met with the president. spoke about it at a press conference in london. >> the relationship and communication between president biden and president xi is most important of all, that is why they had a number of communications and meetings to date and you will see more of that in the time ahead. ed: there is a lot to go over in the context of foreign relations and regulatory angle to all of this, that ties in. of course, artificial intelligence. joining us for more is anu bradford, professor at columbia

law school and author of an upcoming book. coming out this september, thank you for your time. i think we start with technology at the heart of what is happening between the u.s. and china. what do you make of his visit to china and what it may or may not have achieved? anu: thank you for having me here and it is a good sign that at least the u.s. and china are talking. the gaps speak to the interest and ideology surrounding technology, very hard to bridge. there are fundamental differences when it comes to ai. first, there is an ai race, the battle for technological supremacy. there is also a battle on how we should think about building digital societies by deploying ai. the u.s. and the eu are concerned of china's use of ai for digital surveillance and the

exportation of surveillance technologies around the world, that it increases china's influence and pushes the world toward potentially greater digital authoritarianism. caroline: the other tension is how to regulate and protect people in their own communities at a time where you do not want to stifle innovation. it feels like the eu is getting their first in terms of thinking about processing regulation, we anticipate ai later this week. can you bring us up to speed with how aggressive they are about not only regulating the application of ai, but underlying models, the building of artificial intelligence? anu: that is exactly right. the eu is ahead of the game and much more willing than the u.s. to regulate ai. the eu wants to be ahead and tried to make sure innovation takes place, but there are

really deep concerns about how ai potentially has harmful implications, how it might compromise fundamental rights, how it might have adverse effect on democracy. the eu has moved along with a very ambitious -- i am not sure if i would use the word aggressive, but ambitious ai act. it was approved by european parliament this past week and is up for a negotiation with key legislators, the council and parliament. we might see the lobby finalized by the end of the year. -- law be finalized by the end of the year. chatgpt and generative ai really took the center stage in the conversations. the legislative template was not exactly designed for the kind of technology generative ai represents. the focus was we look at how risky the application of ai is,

then we adjust the regulatory obligations accordingly. these large language models can be used in very risky settings or in a settings and that is now going to be one of the main conversations that will be dominating the last steps in the legislative process. there will be legislation forthcoming and generated ai will not get a free pass. caroline: you and i are europeans, but professor bradford wrote before the current book about to come up about the brussels effect, brussels is getting their first in terms of regulation. ed: i spent many years in brussels, it always starts lower level. 2018, the expert group starts work on ai. you have president biden flying into town this afternoon to san francisco, hosting a meeting

with industry leaders. which pathway is more effective to getting actual oversight of the technology? anu: i think whether there is an effective pathway that would exclude the governments of the tech company. i do not see that one way exclusively can necessarily work . but europeans are convinced that any governance of ai needs to be entrenched in legislation, rule of law, democratic governance. we need to have transparency and accountability so we can have a democratic conversation on how the companies develop their models, how we deploy ai so it is consistent with our laws and values. even the eu is painfully aware of the challenges ahead. they are trying to legislate and implement effectively the legislation and for that, it does need the partnership of

tech companies. i was encouraged to see that even now, when we do not have the ai act enforced, europeans and americans are having a conversation together with the tech industry, trying to come up with a code of conduct, that we have guardrails that we all agree upon and hopefully the dialogue will continue as the eu legislative process moves forward. caroline: we will see if it starts to drift between china and the u.s. and europe. fascinating, please come back soon. coming up, from ftx to menlo, amy wu joins us to talk about her big move and how the consumer and ai are intertwining in this moment. this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: i am very pleased to welcome to the show today amy wu a partner of menlo ventures. though ironically today, you are over on the west coast and i am interested in where you are looking for founders, what kind of companies and where you want them to be based. amy: i recently started at menlo ventures, very excited. i am covering consumer and gaming investments. menlo is doubling down on consumer investments at a time when a lot of funds from the last few years have been rotating out of the kata worry, so whether blockchain or non-blockchain, ar, vr, it is

constantly an area with new platforms and innovation, new customer end user experiences. so i am excited to be focused on this space. ed: it takes me to the y for consumer and gaming, i am assuming there will be cross over in your previous work looking at blockchain. i think about collectibles in games, tokens, things that you buy. is that kind of how you are thinking? amy: it is one of the areas. if you look at the history of consumer and gaming investing, particularly consumer investing, new experiences have been driven by platform shifts and i would say that mobile was the last large one. a lot of the most interesting companies of the last 10 years -- if you look at uber and

airbnb were created with technology innovations and mobile. walk chain is a promising platform shift, i would say. still early. there have been companies experimenting on chain, but i think it is still to be seen for mainstream adoption. everyone is very excited about the promises of generative ai as well. ed: i think about your background, because menlo is a different firm, a new firm. reflecting on what has happened in recent years, how much of the conversation with menlo was about what happened at ftx? was it any barrier to moving forward working with them? amy: the short answer is no, i think that they know myself and, to be honest, most employees unfortunately were misled by the founder. so most of our conversation was

in terms of what i will be covering in my thesis areas for the future. caroline: you were only there for 10 months, what do you feel you have learned? emotional i am sure, and one of great hurt. but how do you feel you will do business differently post ftx? amy: you know, i have been a venture investor for a long time. i previously spent a few years at light speed before that at insight. in terms of being an investor, i have not lost any passion for that and i am excited to continue working with great founders. i think there has been a lot of learnings from ftx. first and foremost, it was a very fast growing company that did real revenues and profits in the years that it was in operation. but i think there is a lot of uncertainty in tech and none of

us expected that to happen. caroline: we find ourselves in a new ai hype cycle it feels like, crypto was the hype cycle previously, ai is the new one. you were there within some of the savvy investments being made. just how that sort of became the number one nft anyone could think of. sober studios to build your own games, are you thinking this feels like a hype cycle again? how do you make sure you have long-term investments in the world of artificial intelligence and where the value rises? amy: that is a great question, ai has been technology and development for decades. it certainly had its iphone moment last fall with the launch of chatgpt. when i was at lightspeed, they had long time been investing in ai and mello has been as well.

so i would say the investment cycle continues. with generative ai, new surface area in terms of increasing productivity of workers, for examples artists and gaming, but also in terms of defining a new way that people interact with computers and converse with computers, which is interesting and has a lot of ramifications. those are all areas that will be really interesting to track. ed: within video games, are you interested in startups and companies that want to use generative ai progress on the content side? where's the opportunity? amy: in gaming -- a lot of tech originates from gaming as a use case. the concepts of -- two areas of a lot of intense interest,

procedural generation of content in games and interactions with bought players in the game has actually been in development for a couple of decades, the first diablo game. it is a concept i would say gaming founders and gamers know quite well. as such, they are both set of wary about the hype cycle in generative ai investing in the promises, but also very keen to experiment with the technology and, at a higher level, i think in these gaming studios have always been disadvantage compared to -- indie gaming studios have always been disadvantage compared to big companies. so of generative ai is able to help augment what they are able to create from a content perspective at cheaper costs, then levels of -- the playing

ground and allows more games of high quality and that is a net plus for players. ed: i love that your mind went to nonplayer characters, there is a lot of discussion around how to make games better and more challenging and dream up worlds to play in. not going to get too involved in the videogame chat, got to get your take on the consumer. you start the conversation saying you are pivoting into something others have pulled back on, is there a risk there? amy: there are two things that are happening. if you look at the nasdaq and s&p, some of the largest market cap companies are consumer tech companies. on the other hand, if you look at the last six or seven years, there has not been a lot of very large consumer tech companies that were newly founded that have reached the scale of

facebook and amazon and others. one of the reasons is because incumbents were founded with deep network effects that are very difficult and they have massive distribution. it is difficult for a new company to compete, so it remains to be seen whether generative ai as a platform and new technology is going to actually benefit incumbents more or new startups. i generally believe for a new consumer tech company, you need to dream about a very new surface of consumer experience to compete against incumbents, otherwise it is difficult, even today. ed: menlo ventures partner amy wu, thank you for your time. pivoting to another story, a little ai related. bloomberg is reporting spotify is bringing out a premium tier dubbed supremium.

there will be an element that includes hi-fi audio. not doing much to support the shares, down two percentage points or so. caroline: meanwhile, we are thinking about where we go next in our conversation, we are discussing the to to nick to worship and how it has gone missing. this is bloomberg. ♪

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ed: a sub carrying five people to tour the titanic went missing on sunday, extensive rescue operations are still underway. what is the latest on the search? >> the latest on the search is that there are more aircraft being dispatched to the region that are capable of searching below the surface. they have explored a lot of the surface with radar, other search capabilities. but they have not found any sign of it, so now they are looking deeper under the surface for this missing submersible. caroline: has this happened before, and could there be a chance that satellite is

reconnected in some way? john: i suppose there could be a chance. the craft itself has between 70 and 96 hours of oxygen from when it went down. we are now more than 48 hours into it, so the clock is ticking. that is the key thing, can they locate the craft if it is still a viable craft and bring the people back up to the surface? you have to unscrew all of the port from the outside. the people inside, even if they floated to the top, could not open it themselves. ed: a big part of this story is who is inside the submersible. that is why so many people are talking about online. tell us who the crew is. john: it is a really interesting international group, there is a

guy who is a jet aircraft broker from the u.k., but he lives in dubai. he also flew on jeff bezos's blue origin trip. big explorer guy. the head of the company that runs this diver commotion get expeditions -- ocean gate expeditions, he is the pilot of the crew. there is a frenchman who is an undersea explorer and there are two people from pakistan, a father and son, who are a prominent wealthy pakistani family. caroline: a story we will continue to track, thank you are taking time to join us. the coast guard is scheduled to hold a press briefing involving the search in just a few minutes from now over in boston. that does it for this edition of technology. ed: a lot to recap, global

technology stories from around the world. check out the podcast. from new york and here in san francisco, this is bloomberg. ♪ [announcer] if you're thinking about earning your degree online, snhu can help you get there. - i felt supported throughout the whole process, even from the first call. [graduate] my advisors consistently reached out and guided me along the way. - it was like i was talking to a friend, like someone that i had known for years. - the instructors were very helpful with everything that i was going through. [announcer] we'll be with you from day one to graduation to your dream job. ♪ it all starts the moment you find your program. [announcer] go to snhu.edu to get started.

matt: i am matt miller. kailey: welcome to "bloomberg crypto." coming up, blackrock froze its large dextrose it's large hat into the ring. if launched, the first of its kind in the u.s. matt: we hear from brett harrison who will talk about his new firm architect, as well as involvement with his former firm and the recent