>> welcome to bloomberg markets. let's start with a quick check of one is going on in the markets. a little bit of a buy everything day with the s&p rising a quarter percent. 4567 is the level on the broader benchmark index. the 10-year yield coming down three basis points right now as buyers push the yield down to 3.7541. the bloomberg dollar index is coming up again, third day in a row, fourth session in a row after five down days, bringing

the dollar index to crude pushing up another $.19 on the nymex. wti continues to rise. we still are watching very closely earnings season, the big bank financial numbers have for the most part rolled in. today we heard from goldman sachs which saw its profit plunge as it notched one of its weakest quarters under ceo david solomon. he spoke about the news on a conference call earlier today. >> our results were impacted by several items related to business, executing on the strategic transition and focusing on the future. in particular shifting our asset management business to a less cash intensive model. matt: to walk us through what we have learned is in ali bassett. what do we know? sonali: goldman sachs has a return of equity at 4%. without those charges to real

estate tied to green sky, it would have been 9%. you see the shares wavering. matt: 4% is the worst on the street. sonali: if you take those numbers out, they've done well, beaten equity trading, underwriting is coming back, but the question that remains is how soon do things start to return from normal? when do they meet those meeting return targets? under david solomon's tenure roi peaked in 2021. how soon can investment banking come back? how soon can they turn around this consumer business? are they done with these write-downs? that is what they are convincing the market right now as they look to turn things around. matt: the commercial real estate picture is a big one. equity investments and lending both writing down $1.15 billion.

they want to sell off their equity investments in the medium-term. sonali: they want to reduce their balance sheet intensity, reliance on principal investments. commercial real estate, $1.1 billion hit. goldman tends to be conservative. how does that commercial real estate impact in the market across the other banks? matt: more sellers in the market where there are very she buyers. let's stick with the banks. one of the most listened to analysts on the street, mike mayo wells fargo, joins us right now in the studio. what is your take now that we have seen for the most part all of the big banks and goldman sachs seemingly the worst among them, how does it look to you? mike: let's go from the big picture to the specific. this idea that banks will have a big liquidity capital or solvency issue is off the table

with the bank earnings. the industry has turned a page. there are still earnings issues. i have still taken my estimates lower. as far as big picture issues, you had all of this hocus-pocus, math, financial analysis after silicon valley and first republic failed, saying look at those are the banks. it is not happening. this bank crisis discount without a crisis creates an opportunity in general. goldman sachs in particular is a unique stage of their corporate lifecycle. this was the worst quarter under david solomon aside from one quarter during the pandemic. this is a big strategic vivid. you have short-term pain for potential long-term gain. the question is how long term. matt: investment banking is part of their dna, their corporate economy.

he said it's been bad for a couple of quarters but will look much better on the other side of this cycle. how soon do you think that is? mike: our estimates for coming back in a major way is delayed for a bit longer. you were coming back and then you had the fed increased rates, coming back again, a few regional banks failed. there is a lot of pent-up demand. and you are hearing about green shoots from anyone that you talk to. we still think today is subdued, for the rest of the year. we are talking about a 2024 pickup and capital markets activity. sonali: in this bank earnings season, kbw bank index, every stock back in the green after steep selloffs. even with the jump today, u.s. bancorp is still down 12% on the year, bank of america negative on the year. do they deserve that? mike: i think these are

ridiculous valuations. these are some of the least expensive valuations aside from a crisis or recession that i've seen in my over 30 years of doing this. matt: repeat that. in your 30 years of covering these banks, these are the worst valuations, the furthest away from reality? mike: these are the worst noncrisis, non-recession valuations i've seen. during the global financial crisis, during the pandemic, they were cheaper than, but right now you don't have an impending hard landing recession, you don't have a crisis happening right now. you have resiliency of balance sheets. you have estimate revisions lower, but relative to the stock market, price ratios that are a or nine times versus 20 times. there are three discounts. one is the bank crisis discount. the crisis is over if it ever started. the second is the bank recession

discount, which still can happen, but why are banks pricing it in and the s&p isn't? the third is the regulatory discount. there are regulatory changes coming, but so far, regulators are saying they will take a measured approach. sonali: since we have had a couple of days of the rising tide lifting all boats, banks rising for earnings because others are showing positivity. what has to give? if you are looking for holes in the system, places where people could lose money, what should they be still worried about? mike: commercial real estate and especially office, the losses at goldman sachs today, the $1.1 billion charge they took was driven a lot by office investments. some more loans, some debt security, but office is still going to cause pain not only for goldman sachs but a lot of the industry.

some have tried to get ahead of this. it is interesting that pnc, a regional bank that reported yesterday, reserved 11% losses for their multitenant office buildings. that is significant pain. you still have to pay attention to that over the next couple years. you still have to pay attention to next week, new capital rules, the basel 3 endgame, and that could cause banks to deliver more. sonali: it sounds like a movie. matt: i have a viewer with a question, asking if goldman sachs pivots away from consumer driven businesses, what do they pivot to? also will any other u.s. big banks try to fill that void or will they try to stick to the morgan stanley type of wealth management this is final? mike: goldman sachs is going back to the future. they are going back to their

roots of over 150 years of serving large wholesale clients. they have two main businesses, global banking markets, general capital markets where they have been the leader for decades, and then they have wealth and asset management, where they are trying to serve high net worth customers, do more with private equity off of their balance sheet. everything else, get rid of it. they are pivoting back to their areas of greatest strength. who picks up the slack? that's a question for the banking industry. i asked jamie dimon on the earnings call last friday, what about these new capital regulations? if capital must go up 20 percent for the banks, who gets the business? the same week that the vice chairman of the fed gave a speech about the higher capital requirements, apollo hit an all-time high. dancing in the streets is what the ceo said. a lot of this business will go from the banks to the nonbanks.

sonali: the question i have here, if capital rules are going to tack fee-based businesses, if they are going to attack trading, how does that lower the roe on business over time? goldman sachs is building a home business around that dynamic. mike: i wouldn't use the word "attack." i work at the federal reserve. their job is to prevent financial crises like we had in 2008, 2009. they are doing it across the board so it is not just treating or fees. it is also loans. if you require banks to have a lot more capital, their cost of goods sold goes up, makes some customers unprofitable. you say forget it. you hear from some private equity firms say that they are tricked over the business of the banks used to do.

the u.s. banking industry is one of the most dis-intermediated among all countries in the world. financing by u.s. banks is 25% of total financing. to the extent they push more business away from banks, it reduces the ability of banks to provide a cushion in times of stress. care for poor regulators to strike the right balance between being tough on banks, to prevent situations like the global financial crisis, but not pushing so much that you marginalize them. sonali: i would die to see him take on coverage of apollo. matt: maybe someday he will. great to have you on the program. appreciate your insight. mike mayo of wells fargo. sonali basak, great to have you as always. apple saw a pop in today's session, hitting a record high, after a bloomberg's group at the company is quietly racing to

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matt: this is bloomberg markets. now to a bloomberg scoop that drove apple stock to yet another record high. the company is working to build its own ai tools in hopes of challenging the likes of openai, google, and others. joining us now is mark gurman who broke the story. tell us what apple is doing. i think it is called ajax or apple gpt? mark: we have learned that apple

is going all in on large language learning models, the heart of what powers chatgpt, bard, all of these ai tools we've been hearing about. they have developed their own underlying framework called ajax to power its next generation machines and has also built a chatgpt-like tool for use among its employees that operates similar to the ones that we see today. matt: why have they seemingly given up on siri? alexa seems smarter than siri let alone chatgpt and bing. how come they haven't worked harder on it? mike: i don't think they have given up on siri. apple is stretched pretty thin for resources. a lot of their ai effort is going to are there a thomas carper work, working on the self-driving car. i taught him his capabilities

will be powered by machine learning and artificial intelligence, so a lot of work there. they are applying artificial intelligence to many parts of the system on the iphone, mac, division pro headset, a lot of ai that goes into that. in terms of what we think of ai today, because of what openai is doing, certainly apple is lagging behind. there is a needle that needs to be threaded there in terms of privacy and functionality. that is something apple has had a difficult time doing over the past couple years, but they are starting to thread the needle correctly, by wanting to offer functionality while still preserving that privacy stance on the engineering level. i think they will show these capabilities. i imagine these will be added to their productivity apps. their own corporate infrastructure like applecare, helping people with customer service needs, and more importantly, added to the iphone through siri at some point.

while there is no plan yet for what these consumer products will be, building this underlying foundation at the speed they are doing so, people involved expect some major ai announcement sometime in 2024. matt: when you say they are stretched for resources, i look at the financial analytics on the bloomberg terminal and saw they had 169 billion dollars in cash and equivalents last year. is there any chance they will start pouring some of that money into this? mark: there's a possibility. one thing about apple that people miss is there acquisition strategy. everyone knows that apple doesn't make blockbuster acquisitions, they are not buying disney, not buying openai, or any of these gigantic companies. we know that. a lot of people think they don't want to spend the money. the truth is that apple has a terrible history of technology openai,transfers and technology

integration, wringing people from outside cultures and companies. the beats transition, they spent $3 billion on that. that remains their biggest acquisition to date. very challenging integrating them into apple. they bought intel's modem team. they bought them three or four years ago for a billion dollars. that was a challenge. upping their ai will need to come from internal hires but also smaller acquisitions than anything on the blockbuster side. matt: thanks for joining us, mark gurman, broke the story, focusing in on ai. gucci's ceo is out and that is boosting investor hopes. we will speak with the author of "the house of gucci" on the defense of a potential takeover battle. this is bloomberg. ♪

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matt: this is bloomberg markets. a few months ago, gucci's star designer left, and now the ceo marco bizzarri is stepping down. the move is giving their parent company kering its biggest boost in eight months.

that combined with talks between kering and a shareholder that looks to maybe want to do some action here. bluebell capital partners has been involved, circling the luxury group, and that is the kind of thing that drives shares higher. let's bring in sara forden, who wrote "the house of gucci," which was turned into a blockbuster movie. the drama keeps on coming. i wonder, when you look at the story, the loss of the designer and ceo is not necessarily a great thing for gucci. does it spur some action on the corporate side? sara: certainly there is a shakeup going on at kering and gucci. the key factor for the success of any luxury brand is this magic combination between the creative direction and the business direction. when you saw the designer leaving in november, it was

inevitable that bizzarri with be not -- would not be too far behind. the challenge for gucci is not defined that magic duo again, find a way to regenerate interest and novelty and freshness in the brand. matt: they have that challenge. maybe it's an opportunity for kering. but here comes bluebell capital partners, activist investor that has shaken up many a board room. they don't have much of a chance of taking it over. they own more than half of the voting rights, but this is what seems to get investors interested. is this a company that is right for activist intervention? sara: there is always the question of taking a company to another level with a great deal. we know that bluebell is proposing kering merged with richemont, another luxury group,

but we also know that the richemont brand says they are not interested in a wedding here. is there another deal in the works that could inject new energy into the kering and gucci empire? matt: they have built this kering and gucci empire, adding other brands including alexander mcqueen, ysl. what else could he add? if not richemont, does anything else make sense? sara: the pinot family really took on lvmh in the late 1990's when they took over gucci and started to build out the brand. they have come to be an aggressive rival. the luxury market is also limited, not as big as other sectors.

they will have to be really creative. we are seeing others go after the caa, actors and sports management company but that is a different sphere that managing and expanding a multi-brand luxury group. matt: what do we know about the new creative director named at the beginning of the year at gucci? he is italian, from valentino. we have not seen his collection yet. sara: he's a very talented designer, strong run at valentino. he brings that vision of a sophisticated, yet modern, luxury brand. important to understand the icon, trademark products that are part of gucci's history but also have a feel for the modern consumer, what people want today from these luxury brands.

the key thing is what i said at the beginning of our conversation. it is really about the pairing. they have put francois, and internal manager in charge of the brand, but the next talent scout they are focusing on is is the ceo that is the perfect partner? matt: we will look for that partnership to form, or not, i guess. that will be decisive for the fortunes of the group. always great to talk to you, sara forden. she wrote "the house of gucci." i am sure you have already the book and seen the movie. incredible drama if you have not. tesla reports after the bell. we will get insight on the ev market from jessica caldwell, executive director of industry analytics over at edmunds. this is bloomberg. ♪

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when you show generosity of spirit to someone. and you want people to be saved and to have a better life, then you don't stop. we have been able to reach over 100 million people impacted and affected, and at risk of hiv. the rocket fund takes all of the work that we're doing, all over the world, and looks at the most effective ways, to get resources to them,

to get services to them. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, it's overwhelming. it's everything. >> welcome to bloomberg markets. i am amber kanwar. matt: us get a check markets. the nasdaq is down. the s&p 500 is up around 0.25%. 4565 is the level there. the 10-year yield is down a little more than two basis points at three 716 -- 3.7619.

amber: the ai trade is alive and well. let's check out shares of apple and sales force. apple may not look like much but an initial spike up on reports that they are looking at developing their own version of chatgpt. salesforce has been up after it unveiled its price strategy for its own artificial intelligence offering. this -- then one of the best moves we have seen. shares of at&t staging a recovery after it reached off to allegations it has laid leading cables across the u.s. their response is it is less than 10% of their network but analysts are taking comfort in the reduced possibility. then there is carvana. a company we thought was on the

brink and restructuring. it owes debt in a huge way. 45% of the shares fell short on a stock up more than 1000% so far this year. matt: they may want to cover if they cannot cut it out. the agreement they reached with carvana stakeholders will help with 83% of their cash expenses by $430 million a year for the next two years. it makes sense the stock would be up today, although an 1100% gain your today is eye-popping. damon welch wrote the story -- david welch joins us. it is a pretty amazing comeback story. they are nowhere near their highs of 2021 but this is a company that will no longer go bankrupt.

that is the best thing it has going for it. david: they made significant changes to the balance sheet. the ceo earning garcia the third said there will be more changes to the balance to come. with this debt deal, they will take over $8 billion in debt and will issue more equity. they will start with $350 million and could issue as much as $1 billion in new shares. the issue for the company is looking ahead. this is a better balance sheets and gives them flexibility and breathing room but you still have six dollars in debt they have to deal with. this is still a heavy load for a company the size. especially if they are in a recession and used car prices continue softening. a lot of progress and breathing room but they have a lot of work to do. it is a tough road ahead for them.

amber: when you look at the price targets, the lowest is one dollar and the highest is $50. this highlights how much this right away so quickly. is this a case of getting away from the analysts were is it getting away from the fundamentals? david: i think it is both. right now, they are right about at the highest estimate the street has. this stock was up at once as high as $330. there is a lot of volatility here obviously but let's talk about the fundamentals. they have not made a profit on the net income basis. an important component of this is interest expense. they have a lot of interest expense. they don't come down after the restructure because they are not cutting their interest payment but you are still looking at companies with huge profits.

they still lost money. in the interests, between sg&a costs, they probably have an infrastructure they need to get back. matt: great story and reporting. thank you for joining us. david welch. we will continue to follow autos and car prices. joining us is jessica caldwell, executive director over at edmonds. four begin to tesla, coming after the well, i want your take -- before we get to tesla, coming after the well, i want your take. i was looking at the used car value index and it has rolled over post-pandemic. does that continue into this year? jessica: we talk a lot about used car prices softening. have they come off the highs of

last year? they have. if you look at june last year compared to june of 2019, use prices -- used car prices are still up. when we look at used car inventory coming into the market the next few years, it is a scary pipeline because we have less leasing, fewer new vehicles being sold, and fewer off rentals because a rental car companies have not gotten a lot of those over the last few years. just because supply is being squeezed, we will not see a massive drop. i think it will still stay high and right now it is almost $30,000 which is a chunk of change. matt: it is challenging for new cars as well. previously, used car prices have been so far above it. although we are seeing used car price cuts over at tesla.

i was talking to the creator of true car. listen to what you told me about elon musk's -- what he told me about elon musk's strategy to make cars more affordable. scott: the tesla discount strategy has not been driven by companies like us at all. tesla wanted to make sure every trim level of the tesla qualified for every discount or rebate available to make it more affordable. they have done a protean job of that. matt: autonomy is scott's new company that allows people to lease short-term cars or for a few years. he has a huge fleet of teslas. i will use this to pivot to what we expect form elon musk -- expect from elon musk later. jessica: all we have been

talking about in 2023 is what is happening with tesla's pricing. it is somewhat of a shrewd strategy by elon musk. he knows competition is coming and people are looking an other areas. because inventory has been limited, pricing is still really high. he knows he will maybe get french tv customers that are not decided -- fringe ev customers are not decided on what model they want. because the prices are low and qualify for many things. i think this is the strategy that is largely working. we will see how long this can go for. amber: our electric vehicle buyers as price-sensitive as the kind of buyers looking to buy a internal combustion cars? we have enough data to figure out what makes them tick? are they as effective as they

are when other players do it? jessica: right now, no. if we look at all eb sales, they are 7% -- ev sales, they are 7%. these are less price-sensitive buyers but that is not the endgame. the endgame is the mass-market consumer. add in the territory we are growing into and that's probably where the growing pains will come into effect. amber: that means the electric vehicle producers, especially coming late to the party, but -- will be more cognitive about how they come in to the party. jessica: this will be a struggle, especially as we move into any new technology like electrification. i think tv choices are pretty

decent. that is not really where the targets and this market will end up in 2025. for all automakers, it is producing the $30,000 and $40,000 easy where people want to contract out but still make money. that is a tall order at this point in time and will be for some time. matt: it is now but you are starting to seem tesla and others bring prices down to a level where it can under $40,000 if you get $7,500 in tax rebate. what kind of growth do you see in ev sales? right now, they are 7% of the u.s. fleet? what percentage of new sales will be evs this year or next year? jessica: i think the growth is still there. we will see huge growth. it is dependent on how slow some

of these new vehicles rollout in terms of their introductions. it will be a big deal with gm with the equinox and silverado. with -- we know it will continue to grow. the issue is we have a lot of early adopters that have gone on board and now we are looking for the regular joe's. they are more hesitant because the infrastructure is not built out many areas. i am in los angeles and it is ok here but there are still issues. it has to go hand-in-hand with the cell of more mainstream ev's . making it easy to charge or vehicle as it is to go to the gas station. matt: other carmakers need to invest the way elon musk and tesla did early on. thank you for talking to us about the broader car industry

but also tesla. tesla is coming out with earnings after the bell. netflix is out with results today as well. we will take a look at what to expect from the streamer. this is bloomberg. ♪

amber: this is bloomberg markets. i am amber kanwar with matt miller. time for stock at the hour. netflix results are after the bell. bloomberg will be looking to see how their recent crackdown on password sharing is going and how the hollywood strike and actors strike are affecting the business. matt: joining us for a closer look is bloomberg's simone

foxman. she has been looking all over netflix for us. it is about the crackdown on password sharing. simone: of course, we will be looking for commentary about the actors strike. it is really a simple discussion. it is about growing the subscriber base and charging them as much money as you can without getting them to stop subscribing to netflix. expectations in terms of ads on a subscriber bases are some like 2 million. there is a sense generally that netflix has turned it around and found a way to keep subscribers coming. we also got news earlier about an ad plan. an elimination of the cheapest ad plan that was 999 -- was nine marseille nine cents and was ad

free but hat -- $9.99. so either you pay for good stuff at $15.50 where you play -- pay for the ads. amber: how should we react to the lowest tier? that the uptick was not big where they are trying to get the bnag for the buck -- the bang for the book. simone: they are looking for $89,000 from the value. i guess it is around $15 which is the premium plan. the idea that bloomberg intelligence believes could drive up revenue by double-digit percentiles. of course, we will not see this play out in these earnings specifically but that is the key is the key of looking long-term. from a street basis, netflix is

trading solidly above where analysts price targets are now so it has to show them a lot of jews in its earnings if it wants to keep the numbers we are seeing in terms of share price. matt: they are staying solidly above the analysts's targets. with the recent move into the upside in recent days. simone foxman, thank you so much. let's get over to sophie, equity analyst at harvard. what are you looking for when we get the earnings out after the bell tonight. ? sophie: this is going to be a blockbuster set of numbers and i'm not just using that because they are talking about netflix. i tables unsurprisingly be all of the how the crackdown is shaping up. we are expecting pretty impressive numbers.

the 61% uplift since the start of the year. the market will be incredibly sensitive to any disappointment on that. and then, looking into ad supported tiers. details have been thin on the ground about how they are faring so hopefully we get more. i will be monitoring. matt: have we seen in huge hits that drove adoption over the last quarter? there was not really any kind of squid game or ozark or bridgerton action in the last quarter. nothing new that will bring people to netflix. sophie: it is fair to say the content has not been as good as it has been but this is always the case. it tends to ebb and flow. where did -- where netflix stands out as it spends a lot

more on individual -- original content than other players. this helps because we know customers engage in a better way. it is not just that the conscious late on original may be as strong as it has been. it is still reasonably better than some years. that is a fair argument to make. this is a company spending around $70 billion a year on content. they are still on the front of the pack where content is concerned. that is one thing giving them a huge amount of edge. amber: when sophie started to worry about a content route as a result of the writers strike and actors strike -- a content drought as a result of the writers strike and actors strike? sophie: if we do not see talk of resolution come to the line in the next couple weeks, i think this would, for me, because for

concern. not to panic but certainly something that we are not seeing. some kind of meeting of the minds. i would say in the next month, you will seriously ask questions about what this means. when the pandemic, we found what happened. everyone burned through content at a faster rate than it could keep up with and they don't want a repeat of that. it is a very expensive hole to dig yourself out of. amber: one of the other big turnarounds that has been part of netflix is they are no longer burning cash. they now have positive cash flow regeneration. do you expect that to be a sustainable rate? sophie: yes. this is the billion dollar question. it has definitely been the ultimate thorn in netflix's side. i am of the opinion that they should be able to sustain this,

but obviously, there are bears in the room who think there is still a lot of lumpiness to come. the one key driver i need to keep an eye on, and will be doing so, is the content spent. we know content is incredibly expensive to produce. but they perhaps have a decent roadmap for it and things are under control. i would like to keep an eye out and make sure those are the parameters. i think they have turned a bit of a cornerback as beast the in the past, that can change quickly and do something that needs monitoring. amber: thank you for that perspective. that is sophie lund-yates. one of kim kardashian's businesses raises new funding that values it in the billion. details, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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amber: i am amber kanwar with matt miller. this is "bloomberg markets. for today's "for what it's worth" we are focused on $4 billion. that is how much kim kardashian's company is valued at. according to its ceo, skims is already set to break $750 million in net sales this year. this is largely just digital sales. we are talking about raising money for brick and mortar for a company that sells one thing and hinges on one person's personality. if kim kardashian was not involved, we would have a different story about the valuation. matt: that is right, but years

ago, when spanks first came out, you started to see those all around. the ceo says he and kim kardashian want to put skims brick-and-mortar stores everywhere you see. they want to be just as ubiquitous as global brands. amber: it remains to be seen as to whether the market can handle that. from the pop-ups i have gone to, the demand is crazy for physical locations, there is no supply, and all sales have been online. for pent-up demand, is there enough to the tune of every apple store? if you are all on ozone but, we -- all on ozempic, i don't think you need that. [laughter] matt: markets continue to rally with the s&p 500 up 0.2 564.

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then you don't stop. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, it's overwhelming. it's everything. matt: -- romaine: an eighth day of game for stocks worldwide. live from studio two at bloomberg headquarters in new york. i am romaine boston. katie: i am katie greifeld. we are kicking you off to the close. the s&p 500 on an eighth day of gains. nasdaq 100 is down by zero. take a look at the bond market. not too much happening. we can take a look at the two-year ie