it's an amazing thing when you show generosity of spirit to someone. and you want people to be saved and to have a better life, then you don't stop. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, >> greece went through a lot. it was a very painful period and we will never relive these times. francine: kyriakos mitsotakis, the greek prime minister. from the basket case of europe to one of europe's top economic performers. in this episode of "leaders with lacqua," kyriakos mitsotakis

sets out a series of plans and objectives for the next four years. he wants to restore greece's investment grade status and continue the fight against populism. >> we prevailed through politics of competence and reason. there is a future beyond populism and we have proven that if you run a competent government, you can make it possible to get reelected. francine: he also speaks about his push to legalize same-sex marriage and balance booming tourism with the need to protect his country's natural beauty. >> there are parts of greece that have reached a saturation point. if we have to place restrictions, we will. francine: my conversation with kyriakos mitsotakis next on "leaders with lacqua." prime minister, you have a mandate from the greek people. what is your intention on how that will unfold in the coming years? >> first of all, i am happy, honored and proud to be able to

secure a second mandate. we actually got a higher share of the vote than we did in 2019, something unusual for an incumbent government in these difficult times. i want to make sure i use this strong mandate to drive forward an aggressive reform agenda and make sure greece makes up for the lost ground of the crisis and converges with europe at a fast pace. high growth rate is my number one priority. this would give us fiscal space to drive through changes in health, education and other policies. areas i care about. francine: you are confident you will get investment grade. what does that mean? what does that change in terms of possible investment coming into the country? >> i think it changes lots of things. there is currently a lot of capital that cannot invest in greece because we are not investment grade. as you know, we are already trading as if we are investment grade country, but we also need the official stamp of approval by the rating agencies.

i think it will lower the cost of borrowing which is important in a high interest environment. we have been able to defy the trend. the economy will grow significantly in 2023 and this is giving us fiscal space to reduce our debt. we will be able before the end of the year to actually repay ahead of time our gafla facility and this will send a positive signal to the markets that not only are we focused on growth, but we want to make sure our debt to gdp ratio declines at a fast pace. it is a commitment to investors. we will accelerate the reforms and we will make sure that whatever reforms we implement will be done in such a way not to compromise our country's

fiscal position. greece went through a lot, it was a very painful period. we will never, ever relive these difficult times, but we have proven you can drive high-growth, reasonably reduce taxes while maintaining healthy public finances and i do expect our debt to continue to decline it significantly. and this will give us the physical space to make sure that we ensure markets that we are serious in repaying our debt ahead of time. francine: how difficult is it to do this with a cost-of-living crisis? >> the cost-of-living crisis is very concerning to us and it has hit the poorer segments of society disproportionately hard. two points, first of all we have lower inflation, more than most european countries.

while we aren't successful in using targeted measures to help those in greater need, we resisted the temptation to lower taxes and i'm happy to see that studies are coming out that point out the fact that lowering vat does not lead to a reduction in inflation. this gave us fiscal space to use targeted measures. we will most probably continue these targeted measures when it comes to the supermarket, we are concerned about food prices. i prefer a direct cash transfer to more vulnerable greeks to help them with their supermarket instead of a horizontal cut in vat, which would drain public finances and would not be effective in terms of containing inflation. francine: when do you expect inflation -- i don't know what this has to do with the war in ukraine, but when do you expect food inflation to come down? >> it has been persistent. i wish i had a crystal ball but what i do know is that it is coming down faster than other european countries, although it is still an area of concern and of course, interest rate policies are not driven by us. we have to adjust. it is good news that, for

example, in greece, consumer confidence, pmi has been growing whereas the rest of europe has been on a downward trend, so we seem to be defying the trend. not only will we avoid recession but we will grow by more than 2% this year, which given the circumstances, i would say is good. francine: if you look at your opposition, you almost have none but you have the rise of three far right parties. what can you tell us about them? are they pro-russia? >> we had a comfortable majority in parliament and we have essentially -- we have a 23% gap from the opposition. i mean, the left series suffered a strategic defeat in the elections and i'm happy because essentially we prevailed through politics of competence, reason. we moved the party toward the political center, so yes, there is a future beyond populism and we have proven that if you run a competent government, you can actually make it possible to get reelected.

this is a good message for everyone fighting against populists, whether from the left or the right. as far as the extreme right, we have three small parties in parliament, a small threshold. it manages to be above that. in total, it is 12% or 13%. for two of these parties, we have no idea what they stand for. it will make parliament probably louder and more -- i don't know if it is going to be more interesting, but the extreme right is not organized in the way that it is in other countries and we certainly do not need the extreme right to govern. we've managed to govern on our own, and this was always a strategic point by moving the party to the center. we want to attract enough people to have an absolute majority. we were able to do that, so these are fringe parties, yes. some of them are pro-russia. not very explicitly, but indirectly. but they are not a big factor in greek politics. francine: you don't think it's a warning of something to come, either for other european countries --

>> i always take their grievances for people who vote for protest parties seriously. it is true that some people feel marginalized, threatened, they feel that the world is moving at a faster pace and they are being left behind. but in greece, because we went through a crisis of things, it has been a process of greek society really maturing and maybe actually in terms of the political development, leapfrogging what is happening in other european countries. so we want a second mandate, which is even stronger politically than the first one. i think this says something about greek society. and in that sense, it gives the necessary political predictability to investors, because i always said you need two terms to do a big transformation project. so i think investors are looking at greece and they look at four

years until the next national election, stable government, safe pair of hands. i'm sure they like what they see in terms of politics of the country. francine: up next, tourism accounts for about a fifth of greece's economy but as visitors flock to the country and the beautiful islands, the prime minister is at pains to make sure he does not trade nature for short-term profit. >> i want to make sure that, you know, in five years from now, we will not have sacrificed the beauty of our natural environment at the interest of a very rapid growth. ♪

francine: the relationship between the united states is complex, strained by comments from washington that it wants to de-risk itself from the world's second-largest economy. but how should a european nation like greece handle beijing? i continue the conversation with

the prime minister, mitsotakis. prime minister, what kind of relationship do you want with china? >> i frame our relationship with china within the context of the european union as a whole. we can work with china on various interests. they are a competitor, a rival on many other issues. i have been advocating for a comprehensive european approach vis-à-vis china, so we do not want to decouple and frankly, we cannot decouple, we do want to de-risk. this means a more measured and intelligent approach vis-à-vis china, which is relevant for us. and china is an important market for agricultural products. it could be an important market in terms of bringing in chinese

tourists. it is much less important as a source of capital. for example, when you look at big infrastructure projects and how we have funded them over the past years, no capital directly came from china. but we will certainly align our policy with the overall european approach when it comes to china. francine: and when you say it is impossible to decouple, is it because the codependency is big on different ships and manufacturing? >> in a globalized economy -- i'm not so much talking about the greek economy, i'm talking about the global economy is a reality. we want more independence of supply chains but there is a limit to how much we can do that. francine: what do you worry most about with the economy in greece? when you look at tourism, it is booming but it means islands are overcrowded. is there something you can do? >> thank you for asking this question because i want to make sure in five years from now, we will not have sacrificed to the beauty of our natural environment at the interest of a very rapid growth.

so that is why i'm focusing on sustainable growth. that is why will push for quality over quantity. very strict in terms of standards. we are actually looking at our local and regional sort of planning legislation across the country to make sure we know exactly what we can build and where we can build it. there are parts of greece which are -- have reached saturation points and if we have to place restrictions, we will, in order to protect especially islands, which are more sensitive. francine: does that look like a tax? if you go on an island or? >> in terms of building, there is only how much we can build on certain islands. i do not want to single them out. we are not there in terms of taxes. that is not something that is currently in the cards. i am more concerned with how many people we can actually get on an island and make sure the island's functioning but also for tourists. i do have a positive experience because at the end of the day when something is overcrowded, people do not appreciate it. it is not rocket science.

we are planning to make sure when you have cruise ships, they don't all have to come at the same time. we can manage the berths in a smarter way to get more cruise ships but also so the island does not overflow with visitors throughout the day. francine: prime minister, how much time are you going to spend tackling tax evasion? >> a lot because this is an important issue, not just a question of equity, but making sure we have additional revenues for our schools or our health care system. we've made good progress in terms of reducing the vat gap. we have been very diligent in terms of making electronic transactions more attractive. covid also helped us in that direction and we saw the tangible results. and as we sort of digitize the entire sort of supply chain, make it also easier for tax authorities to be targeted and smarter in terms of going after tax evasion. for me, this is a big priority.

francine: are you frustrated that it was not as fast as you thought it would? >> yes, but in terms of the vat gap, we have made good progress. we have a legacy of tax evasion, but it is also -- this is also something that is very much related to collective trust. if people feel that they get quality public services, they will be more inclined to pay their taxes. but we have also proven that if you actually lower taxes, in an economy that has sort of a tradition of tax evasion, it can actually bring in more revenues. not true always for all countries, in our case it is very much true. so our strategy of gradually lowering taxes has actually worked and brought in more revenue. francine: up next, prime minister kyriakos mitsotakis on why pushing for lgbtq rights is one of his priorities. >> you know, homosexual people could not even give blood. before we came into power, we

still had horrible conversion therapies, which were technically legal for gay teenagers. i mean really, i would ban all of that and we will continue to implement our strategies. ♪ wake up, achievers. you're making the most of every hour of your life. except the hours that you're sleeping. so why do we leave so much untapped potential on the table?

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for migrants from asia and africa. in june, hundreds died or were lost at sea fishing off a vessel crowded with asylum-seekers capsized off the coast of greece. i spoke to the prime minister about the tragedy. prime minister, coast's of course have not been portrayed in a positive light recently because of migrant boats that have sank. are you taking action to make sure that does not happen again? >> look, we have been implementing a migration strategy that i have always described as tough and fair. our number one priority is for people not to drown but also to protect borders. my theory is simple, the less people you have at sea, the less likely you will have a tragedy. like the one that unfolded in international waters off the

greek coast, but we have been able to make the strategy work in the eastern, we have broken the smugglers networks. it is very unfair when i look at ngo's are part of the international press, they place emphasis on the coast guard but do not talk about the smugglers who put these desperate people on a boat that was obviously not seaworthy. every time there is an incident, there is always an investigation and even regarding this tragedy there is an ongoing judicial investigation. obviously, i cannot comment on it, but pointing the finger at the coast guard, they've saved tens of thousands of people. it's unfair, unjust and wrong as a strategy because what we do not want is a -- strategy. we have to protect our borders but we need legal pathways either for humanitarian reasons, refugees or migrants. one of our goals in greece is to sort of expand the labor market participation. and when i look at certain jobs, for example, agricultural

sector, we have difficulties finding people to actually do these jobs. and i would much more prefer -- and we are already putting in place these types of programs. for example, to have an arrangement with a country such as egypt or bangladesh, where we offer work visas for people to work and they will work and be insured. they don't need to embark on a dangerous trip. we will control the policy. we cannot let this policy be controlled by smugglers. francine: do you feel let down by the european union? should they be helping you more to deal with the situation and refugee camps? >> first of all it is changing, this approach. the european council is placing more emphasis on migration, border management. they have funded a lot of our camps. if you go to the islands you will see all from modern facilities. five years ago we had a horror under a socialist government

which was supposedly progressive and cared quote unquote about the human conditions of migrants. so there has been supported by the european union. yes, i would like them to be bolder and openly finance barriers or what we call fences, but other measures to help us protect our border. and of course, you know, we are also working with front tics. they are not an ngo. some people think they should be, but they should not be an ngo. it is a border protection unit, heavily sort of funded by the european union. and we are always working with them on whatever issues arise. we always try to cooperate and resolve them. francine: no change in policy on refugees that you see or again -- >> gradual change in policy at the level of the council which is most welcomed. to make sure that we place external dimension of migration front and center, because we are

talking about the internal dimension, how do we move people when they enter the european union and who should be responsible. for example, for welcoming. are we going to have quotas? and these are difficult topics but unless we reduce the number of people that enter the union illegally, we will not be able to address this problem. again, this is not sufficient. we need legal pathways and to be effective when it comes to returns. francine: prime minister, you've also done a lot of work on lgbtq rights. how much will that continue? >> it will continue. we have an lgbtq equality strategy that we are putting in place. it's a work in progress but we

are happy about some of our initiatives, which also mean a lot to me. homosexual people could not even give blood before we came into power. we still had horrible conversion therapies, which were technically legal, for gay teenagers. i mean, really we would ban all of that and continue to implement our strategies long-term. a long-term project. but i think greek society is much more ready and much more mature. it's interesting that all of these initiatives have been launched by a center-right government and not the previous government which theoretically belonged to the left. this is a testimony to the fact that we are a truly progressive government. francine: will you only reach true equality when you have same-sex marriage? >> it will happen at some point. it is part of our strategy. it is a work in progress. we have civil union already and at some point, you know, this strategy will come to the center. francine: how would you describe yourself as a leader, what kind of leader? i mean, you have delivered on a lot of your goals. done better than expected in the polls. what drives you?

>> i do not so much like too much to talk about myself, i would really like to look at greece after eight years and say yes, we have made big changes. this is not just about management, not playing defense. it is about changing the country. this country if you look at its 200 year history has gone through spells where really big changes happened. and i hope that i can make my own contribution in making sure that we completely break out of this sort of spell that really dragged us towards essentially the bottom during the second decade of the 21st century. we lost 25% of gdp, which was the biggest contraction since the second world war in any country. but it is an opportunity to really change the country and essentially what i would like to do is make sure i release the

creative forces. greeks are talented, i want them to be able to prosper. francine: what is your biggest dream for greece? >> to become a protagonist, a global protagonist in those areas where we can be a protagonist. and to be able to catch up in those areas where we are still laggards. and to address what i would consider to be the three big challenges, which is the environment, the digital challenge, the opportunities and the threats of ai, but for me, the most important challenge is income inequality. at the end of the day, i want to look at the growth that we delivered and i would be happy if i see less inequality rather than more. it's always a risk in rapidly growing economies, that you have more inequality. we have been able to lower inequality over the past four years because we have actively supported those in need. at the end of the day, it's

about giving opportunity to those who are less privileged. this is what really excites me and makes me work harder when i feel tired. francine: do you think that is why people voted for you or is it because they did not have a real alternative? >> i think maybe in 2019 people voted for us because they were fed up with the previous government. in this election, i'm pretty sure people voted for us because they bought into our story and vision for the future. again, it is unusual to see this level of support in a multi-party system. so i think they placed their trust in us and we have to reciprocate. so a big victory, it gives us cause for celebration. that will last for hours, not days. then suddenly you have the weight of people's expectations on your shoulders, the weight of the office on your shoulders and you tell yourself the people have given you a mandate for big change and you will deliver. francine: thank you for your time. >> thank you, francine. thank you so much. ♪

it's an amazing thing when you show generosity of spirit to someone. and you want people to be saved and to have a better life, then you don't stop. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, it's overwhelming. it's everything. ♪ haslinda: welcome to the qatar economic forum, powered by bloomberg. i am haslinda amin. over the next half-hour, we will be showing you highlights from the third annual forum that took place in doha.