>> greece went through a lot. it was a very painful period. francine: the greek prime minister, who many have credited for the transformation of the country and its economy, from the basket case of your up to one of the continent's top economic performance. in his first interview since being reelected, he sets out a

series of objectives and plans for the next four years. he tells me how he wants to restore greece's investment grade status and continue the fight against poverty. quickly move the party towards the political center, so there is a future, and we have proven if you run a competent government, you can get reelected. francine: he also talks about his push to legalize same-sex marriage. my conversation with kyriokos mitsotakis next on "leaders with local." you have a second mandate from the people. what is your intention for how that will unfold in coming years? p.m. mitsotakis: first of all,

and very happy, and very proud to be able to secure a second mandate. i want to make sure i use the strong mandate to draw forward an aggressive reform agenda and make sure greece makes up for the lost ground and actually converges with europe at a very fast pace. we had a growth rate is for me my number one priority. this will give us also the fiscal space to drive through important changes in health, in education, and other policies. francine: you are confident you will get investment grade. what does that change? p.m. mitsotakis: i think it changes lots of things. this currently a lot of capital that cannot invest in greece simply because we are not investment grade. we are already trading as if we

are an investment grade country, but we also need the stamp of approval by the rating agencies. i think it will further lower our cost of borrowing, which i think is important in a high-interest environment. we have been able to identify the trend where the economy is going to grow significantly in 2023, and this also gives us the fiscal space to further reduce our debt. we will be able before the end of the year to actually repay ahead of time our gfa facility, and i think this will send a positive signal to the markets that not only are we focused on growth but we also want to make sure our debt to gdp ratio continues to decline at a very rapid pace. it is a commitment to investors. we will accelerate the reforms, and we will make sure that whatever reforms we implement will be done in such a way not to compromise our country's fiscal position. greece meant a lot for a very

painful period. we will never, ever relive these difficult times, but i think we have proven that you can drive high-growth and reasonably reduce taxes while at the same time maintaining very healthy public finances. i expect our debt to gdp to continue to decline significantly, and this will also give us the fiscal space to make sure that we ensure markets that we are serious in repaying part of our debt ahead of time. francine: how difficult is it to do this with the cost of living crisis? rep. pelosi: the cost of living --p.m. mitsotakis: the cost of living crisis is very concerning to us and has hit the poorer sectors of society disproportionately hard. i think we were successful in using targeted measures to help those in greater need. we resisted the temptation to lower vat and excise taxes. and now, i am happy to see that a lot of studies coming out now point out the fact that lowering

vat does not lead to a reduction in inflation. this gave us the fiscal space to use targeted measures. we will most probably continue these targeted measures, especially when it comes to the supermarket -- we are concerned about food prices. and i prefer a direct cash transfer to more vulnerable greeks to help them with a supermarket bill than a horizontal cut in vat which will drain public finances. and probably will not be effective in terms of containing inflation. francine: when do you expect inflation -- i don't know how much this has to do with the war in ukraine, but when do you expect food inflation to come down? pm mitsotakis: it has been persistent. i wish i had a crystal ball. but what i do know is that it is coming down faster than other european countries although it is still an area of concern. and, of course, interest rate policies are not driven by us, so we have to adjust.

but it is good news that, for example, in greece, consumer confidence and pmi has been growing, whereas in the rest of europe, it has been on a downward trend. so we seem to be defying the trend. not only will we avoid that recession but we will you know, grow by more than 2%. this year. which, given the circumstances, i would say that is pretty good. francine: when you look at your opposition, you actually have none in parliament. but you do have the rise of three far-right parties. what can you tell us about them? are they pro-russian? pm mitsotakis: first of all, we have a comfortable majority in parliament. we essentially have a 23% gap from the opposition. the left suffered a strategic defeat in these elections. and i am happy because we prevailed through politics of competence and reason. we moved the party towards the political center. yes, there is a future beyond populism, and we have proven that if you run a competent government, you can actually make it possible to get reelected. so i think this is a good

message for everyone fighting an election against populists, whether they come from the left, or from the right. now as far as the extreme right is concerned, yes, we have three small parties in parliament at a 3% threshold. they managed to be right about that. the total is probably 12% or 13% of the electors. we have no idea what they stand for. it will make parliament probably louder -- i don't know if it will be more interesting, but, no, the extreme right is not organized the way it is in other countries. and we certainly don't need the extreme right to govern. we managed to govern on our own and this was always a strategic choice by moving the party to the center, while making sure we attract enough people to have an absolute majority. so we are able to do that. these are fringe parties. yes, some of them are sort of pro-russian. not very explicitly, but indirectly. but they are not a big factor in greek politics. francine: so you don't think it is a warning of something to come, either for other european countries --? pm mitsotakis: i always take the grievances of people who vote for protest party seriously.

it is true some people feel marginalized, they feel threatened, they feel that maybe the world is moving at a faster pace and they are being left behind. but in greece, because we went through a crisis, i think there has been a process of greek society really maturing. and maybe, actually in terms of the political development, leapfrogging what is happening in many other european countries. so we won a second mandate, which is even stronger politically than the first one. i think this says something about greek society. and in that sense, it also gives the necessary political predictability to investors. because i always said, you need two terms to really do a big transformation project. so i think investors are also looking at greece and they look at four years without -- until the next national election.

a stable government, a safe pair of hands. i am sure they like what they see in terms of the politics of the country. francine: up next, tourism accounts for about 1/5 of greece's economy. but as visitors flock to the country and its beautiful islands, the prime minister is at pains to make sure he does not trade nature for short-term profit. pm mitsotakis: i want to make sure in five years from now, we will not have sacrificed the beauty of our natural environment at the interest of a very rapid growth. ♪ unainty? or opportunity. whatever you see, at pgim we can help you rise to the challenges of today, when active investing and disciplined risk management are needed most. drawing on deep expertise across the world's public and private markets in pursuit of long-term returns... pgim. our investments shape tomorrow today.

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principal asset management. actively invested. francine: the relationship between the united states and china is complex. it has been strained by recent comments from washington that it wants to de-risk itself from the world's second largest economy. but how should a european nation like greece handle beijing? i continue my conversation with prime minister mitsotakis.

prime minister, what kind of relationship do you want with china? pm mitsotakis: i would frame our relationship with china within the context of the european union. as a whole, we can work with china on various issues. but they are also a competitor and also a rival on many other issues. i have been advocating for a comprehensive european approach vis-a-vis china. so we do not want to decouple. frankly, we cannot decouple, but we want to de-risk. which means a more measured approach vis-a-vis china. china is also relevant for us. and china is an important market for our agricultural products, for example. it could be an important market in terms of bringing in chinese tourists.

it is much less important as a source of capital. for example, when you look at the big infrastructure projects and how we funded them over the past years, no capital, practically, came from china. but we will certainly align our policy with the overall european approach when it comes to china. francine: when you say it is impossible to decouple, is it because the codependency is too big on certain chips and manufacturing? pm mitsotakis: i do think in a globalized economy -- i am not so much talking about the greek economy, but the global economy. the globalized economy is a reality. we want more independence over supply chains, but there is a limit as to how much we can do that. francine: what do you worry most about your economy? tourism is booming, but it also means some of the islands are overcrowded. is there something you want to do about that? pm mitsotakis: thank you for asking this question, because i want to make sure that, five years from now, we will not have sacrificed the beauty of our, sort of, natural environment at the interest of a very rapid growth. so that's why i am really focusing on sustainable growth. that's why i will always push for quality over quantity.

very strict in terms of standards. we are actually looking at our local and regional planning legislation across the country to make sure that we know exactly what we can build and where we can build it. there are parts of greece which have reached saturation point, and if we have to place restrictions, we will, in order to protect. especially the islands which are more sensitive. francine: does that look like a tax, if you go on an island? pm mitsotakis: it is in terms of building. there's only so much we can do for certain islands. i don't want to single them out. we are not there in terms of things like taxes. that is not something currently in the cards. but i am more concerned with how many people we can actually get on an island and make sure the island is still functioning, but also for tourists to have a more -- have a positive experience. because, at the end of the day, when something is overcrowded, people don't necessarily appreciate it. it's not rocket science.

for example, we are beginning to do it and planning it so that when you have cruise ships, they don't always come at the same time. doing it in a smarter way to make sure you can get more cruise ships, but also that the island doesn't overflow with new visitors. francine: prime minister, how much time are you going to spend on tackling tax evasion? pm mitsotakis: a lot. because this is an important issue. it's not just a question of equity, but also a question of making sure we have additional revenues for our schools or our health care system. we have made good progress in terms of reducing the vat gap. we are being very diligent in terms of making electronic transactions more attractive. covid also helped in that direction. and we saw the tangible results. and, as we sort of digitize the entire sort of supply chain, make it also easier for our tax authorities to be more targeted and smarter in terms of going after tax evasion. for me, this is a big priority. francine: were you frustrated that it wasn't as fast as you thought it would be? pm mitsotakis: to a certain

extent, yes. although in terms of the vat gap, we have made good progress. we had a legacy of tax evasion, but it is also, this is also something which is very much related to collective trust. people feel that they get quality public services, they will be more inclined to pay their taxes. but we have also proven that if you actually lower taxes in an economy that has a tradition of tax evasion, that it can actually bring in more revenue -- not true always, for all countries. in our case, this was actually very much true. so our strategy of gradually lowering taxes has actually worked and has actually brought in more revenues. francine: up next, prime minister mitsotakis on why pushing for lgbtq rights is one of his priorities. pm mitsotakis: homosexual people couldn't even give blood before we came into power. we still had horrible conversion therapies, which were technically legal, for, you

know, gay teenagers. i mean, really. we banned all that and we will continue to implement our strategies. ♪

francine: greece is the main routes into the european union for refugees and migrants from the middle east to asia and africa. in june, hundreds died or were lost at sea as a fishing vessel crowded with migrants and asylum seekers capsized off the coast

of greece. i spoke to the prime minister about the tragedy. prime minister, coast guards, of course, have not been portrayed in a positive light recently because of the migrant boats that have sank. are you taking action to make sure that doesn't happen again? pm mitsotakis: we have been implementing a migration strategy that i have always described as tough and fair. our number one priority is for people not to drown at sea, but also to protect our borders. my theory is very simple, the less people you have at sea, the less likelihood that you may have a tragedy like the one that unfolded in international waters, but off the greek coast. and we have been able to make the strategy work in the eastern mediterranean. we have broken those smuggler -- the smuggler networks. and, it is very unfair when i look at, for example, ngo's or part of the international press,

they place the emphasis on the coast guard, but they don't talk about the smugglers who put these desperate people on a boat that was obviously not seaworthy. every time there is an incident, there is always an investigation. and even regarding this tragedy, there is an ongoing traditional investigation. obviously, i cannot comment on it, but pointing the finger at the coast guard -- our coast guard has saved tens of thousands of people. it is unfair, unjust, and also wrong as a strategy. because, at the end of the day, what we do not want is a post strategy. we have to be vigilant in protecting our borders, but we also need legal pathways either for humanitarian refugees but also for economic migrants. one of our goals in greece is to sort of expand labor market participation. and when i look at certain jobs, for example, in the agricultural sector, we have difficulties finding people to do these jobs.

i would much more prefer, and we are already putting in place these types of programs, for example, to have an arrangement with countries such as egypt or bangladesh where we offer work visas for people to legally work here. and they will come and work and they will be insured and they don't need to embark on the dangerous trip. but we will control the policy. we cannot leave this policy, we can't let this policy be controlled by the smugglers. francine: do you feel let down by the european union? should they be helping you more in trying to deal with the situation? also, the refugee camps. pm mitsotakis: to be honest, first of all, the european -- it is changing its approach. the european council is placing much more emphasis on the external aspect of migration. which is essentially border management. they have also funded a lot of our camps. if you go to the islands, you will see ultramodern facilities. five years ago, we had one camp under a socialist government

which supposedly was "progressive and cared", quote unquote, about the humane conditions of migrants. there has been support from the european union. i want them to finance barriers, what we call fences, but other measures to help us protect our border. and, of course, we are working with frontex. frontex is not an ngo. maybe some people in the european parliament believe it should be an ngo. but frontex should not be an ngo. frontex is a border protection unit heavily funded by the european union. and we are always working on whatever issues arise and we always try to cooperate and try to resolve them. francine: there is no change in policy on refugees? pm mitsotakis: there has been an aggressive change on policy at the level of the council which is most welcome. we want to make sure that we place the external dimension of migration front and center.

because we talk a lot about the internal dimension, which is how do we move people, once they enter the european union? who should be responsible for welcoming? are we going to have quotas? and these are difficult topics. but unless we reduce the number of people who enter the union illegally, we will not be able to address this problem. but again, this is not sufficient. we need to offer legal pathways and we need to be more effective when it comes to returns. francine: prime minister, you have also done a lot of work on lgbtq rights. how much will that continue? pm mitsotakis: it will continue. we have a lgbtq equality strategy. we are putting it in place. it is a work in progress, but we are happy about some of our initiatives, which mean a lot to me. you know, homosexual people couldn't even give blood before we came into power. we still had horrible conversion therapies, which were technically legal, for gay teenagers.

i mean, really. we banned all that, and we will continue to implement our strategy. it is a long-term project but i think greek society is much more ready and much more mature. it is interesting that all of these initiatives have been launched by a center-right government, and not by the previous government, which theoretically, again, belonged to the left. and i think this is also a testimony to the fact that we are truly a progressive government. francine: we will only reach true equality when you have same-sex marriage. pm mitsotakis: it is part of our strategy and it is a work in progress. we have civil union already. and at some point, this strategy will come to a head. francine: prime minister, how would you describe yourself as a leader? what kind of -- you have delivered on a lot of your goals, and you have done better than expected in the polls. what drives you? pm mitsotakis: i don't like too much to talk about myself.

but i would really like to look at greece after eight years and say, yes, we have made big changes. so this is not just about management and playing defense. it's really about changing the country. this country, if you look at is 200 year history, has gone through spells where really big changes happened. and i hope i can make my own contribution in making sure that we completely break out of this sort of spell that really drive us towards -- essentially towards the bottom, during the second decade of the 21st century. you know, we lost 25% of our gdp. this was the biggest contraction since the second world war in any oecd country. but it is an opportunity to really change the country. and essentially, what i would like to do is make sure i release creative forces. greeks are incredibly talented and i want them to be able to prosper in the country rather

than move abroad. francine: what is your biggest dream for greece? pm mitsotakis: to become a global protagonist in those areas where we can be a protagonist, and to be able to catch up in those areas where we are still laggards. and to address what i consider to be the three big challenges, which is the environment, the digital challenge, the opportunities and threats of ai. but, for me, the most important challenge is income inequality. at the end of the day, i want to look at the goals we delivered. i will be happy if i see less inequality rather than more. it's always a risk in rapidly growing economies that you actually have more inequality. we have been able to lower inequality over the past four years, because we have actively supported those in need. at the end of the day, it is about giving opportunity to those who are less privileged. this is what really excites me

and makes me work harder when i feel tired. francine: prime minister, do you think that is why people voted for you, or is it because they didn't have a real alternative? pm mitsotakis: i think that maybe in 2019, people voted for us because they were fed up with the previous government. in this election, i am pretty sure people voted for us because they bought into our story and our vision for the future. again, it is unusual to see this level of support in a western democracy, in a multiparty system. so i think they placed their trust in us, and we have to reciprocate. so a big victory gives us cause for celebration. that probably lasts for hours, rather than days. and then suddenly you have the weight of people's expectations on your shoulders, the weight of the office on your shoulders. and you tell yourself, people have given you a mandate for big change, and you better deliver. francine: thank you for your time today. pm mitsotakis: thank you so much. ♪ ♪

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