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i speak to robin group met diversity, purpose, and what the future holds in an ever-changing world. >> thank you so much for joining us. the world is a bit strange. there are so many crises, it is just fickle to get a handle on what comes next.

>> yes, that would be the shortest answer i could ever give. it is difficult. i think if this year has taught us anything, it is that prediction is not our strongest suit, perhaps. and that isn't just in relation to markets, it is in relation to these big, geopolitical events that we are still living with. >> but it is quite incredible to think we're any a better place. every six months there is the doom and gloom crew saying this is that, we need to reevaluate what happens next. and yet the economy holds. >> i think that's right. when we have this conversation about higher for longer which i still say out loud and then cross my fingers in some ways that may be an going to be entirely wrong, but higher for longer, where the nuances is in that message is that with the -- what we are unlikely to see is 0%. we are probably unlikely to see 2%.

we may see some 50 basis points adjustments for sure, but i think what we have been signaled clearly from central banks is that they are not frightened of using policy to control inflation or to try to respond to inflation, and i think that is the messaging we should all kind of get used to. last 10 years, 0%, free money. next 10 years, higher for longer with that slight nuance in the way that i've described. francine: and i imagine the 2024 could be difficult so it makes it harder to manage money. robyn: the domination effect that we saw with the banking crisis and with ldi, that also put premium back into liquidity. how do you manage these different economic cycles, and are you prepared or are you ready for hedging which means

that at times you're going to do well and at times were not going to do well with the entirety of your portfolio. and that's ok, actually managing your portfolio for these different changing economic cycles or behaviors is what you are supposed to be doing. francine: doesn't change how you lead man group? robyn: it changes because of the way that we position the organization. we argan organization that is diverse, our capabilities are diverse. we have different engines doing different things. we have products in the macro space, products in equities. we have long only, we have long-sure. but what we are seeing his clients are interested in more customized solutions. in solutions that actually answer the problem they've got for the challenge they have rather than hearsay products, buy it or nothing else.

so it changes in the way that you deliver an organization. it changes and the fact that the value you are driving towards is not just about here is a product, but here is a solution. francine: so what does that mean in what you're focusing your energy on? i know you want to be in the private credit space but hiring is also something that you need to think of carefully. >> what we have are highly talented individuals who are focused on being the very best they can be in the workplace and delivering what they do, and that could be in our operations and middle office department or in our legal department. hiring the very best people, retaining and keeping those people, giving them opportunity, giving them a space where they can be the very best they can be is incredibly important. it is tech, it is talent. it is vision. it is about knowing that when

people come to work every day, every single person that man group adds value and is valued. that is important. if i can have everybody answer the same question, what do you come to work to do everyday, and the answer to that is because we are the custodians and we are responsible for the savings and the pensions of real people like my mom and dad and your mom and dad, then we do a better job every day. francine: there is a war on italics, there is a battle to get the very best. so what do they want? robyn: it depends. i think that is the one size doesn't fit all thing. who doesn't want to be around really smart people? who doesn't want to be around a place which values your input? who doesn't want to be any place that doesn't seek to be better today than it was yesterday and better tomorrow than it is today? who doesn't want to be around a place which is actually interesting to you as a person and interested in being capable

of making you better? so where do we go? we go forward, we go wide, we look for difference, for energy, and excitement. that person who is able to get energized. francine: you don't always hear that. is there a perception for finance? robyn: i think finance hasn't done as good a job as we might ask in the value we bring to society more generally. i don't care cancer, that's not what i do. i wish i could, i wish i would that smart and capable to do that. but what we do is protect and enrich the savings and the pensions of people. people who have worked incredibly hard all of their lives and diligently put their money aside in a 401(k) or wherever it may be, and we are entrusted with that. and if we do our jobs well, we can give them financial security. we can provide something that

enables legacy investing, that enables access to health care, to education, to a roof over your head. that is a pretty important thing to do. francine: you seem to be filled with a vague sense of purpose, which you don't often get from hedge fund managers. robyn: i have a vague sense of purpose. i run a firm that has a big sense of purpose, and i think that energy is something we should put to work. when i sit down with big allocators and we talk about what it is we are both trying to do, it's the same. the day we forget that, and the day that i think about our numbers and the institutional size numbers that we all talk about, we lose a bit of that sense of what we are here to do properly. francine: coming up, robyn grew on adapting to change in an uncertain future. robyn: i'm not good at

predicting what the next you're the next five years is going to be. what we need to do is to be flexible, to be dynamic, to think about the impact of markets and changes. ♪

francine: i continue the conversation with man group chief executive robyn grew. do you worry about what the future economic footprint looks like for the world? robyn: our job is to say how do we think about what could happen, how do you stress your portfolio, how do you think about what your outcomes are today? people drawing pensions today vs. drawing pensions 50 years from now. man group is 240 years old. match the duration of our client through our thinking about just

returns for a year from now, but are trying to think about what they are planning for 30 years from now. i'm not good at predicting what the next year or the next five years is going to be. what we need to do is to be flexible, is to understand and be dynamic. to think about the impact of markets and changes. francine: are you more worried about geopolitics or market functioning? robyn: the fact that we've now changed geopolitics to geoeconomics is something of an impact point. as we think about what happened when russia invaded ukraine and the impact on our fossil fuel pricing or you think about the worries and concerns about supply chains and the fact that these buffers when you think about real estate and the refinancing is inevitable. it is not a 30 year mortgage, these things are coming out from refinancing within the next 3, 4, 5 years. that is a lot of money to be put

to work and we are in an environment where you look out onto the city, office buildings are in a different place and have a different level of occupancy than we've seen before. these are big changes. geoeconomics i think are things that we have to take into consideration. francine: what do you worry about most, is it a ranking or one in the same? robyn: i think it is a transformational change. i think we are going to see credit markets plan your role. i think if you see lending, tightening, you are going to see a need for financing out there. but it is not at all things are created equal. i am a big proponent of credit but not every active manager and not every credit expert is going to be able to deliver in these environments. there is expertise and skill needed. how do i think about prioritization? i think in terms of capabilities. i think about being as skilled as we can be in data, in

analytics, and tech, in credit, and multiple asset classes. and then being able to pivot those. that is where i think about things. that is the number one thing i'm focusing. i think we have to think about all of these things. francine: are you looking at acquisitions to be in certain spaces? robyn: we've always said that we will grow the firm organically and we will always look for acquisitions to increase our capability on content for clients. i think what is interesting as we completed our acquisition with private reddit management in the u.s. and middle markets. i think what is interesting is that multiple look more interesting. we've been talking about consolidation. we've been talking about consolidation since the gsc. this is one of those points i'm going to want to laugh about in a few years from now, but i actually think as we look at the barriers to entry in this space,

as we look at the cost of road -- running out businesses, the scale we need to operate at and the multiples we are starting to see coming down, i think this could be an interesting time for consolidation. francine: but why has it been a long time coming? is it regulation, just no appetite? robyn: when cash is free, it softens that. i think the moment where people need to deploy at scale in liquid markets is something to soften. if you look at the trends, trend has been in private equity. if you think about the number of assets that no longer sit in the public domain, i think when private equity doesn't have quite as much cash, when the racing is harder, when lending is harder, these opportunities for niche spaces and expertise to come about, they want scale,

they need to operate at scale. having an organization that can deliver the amount of scale we put in play, the fit that perhaps is less sexy and exciting but that infrastructure, the ability to take businesses and grow them, that is what we do. francine: what do you think of the city of london? there's a lot it can offer, where do you see it in five years? robyn: you are talking to a u.k.-listed co, so i could not be more interested in u.k. plc. i think we have held such an extraordinary position in financial markets and generally, so anything we can do to keep that shining i think is important. but competition is high. we shouldn't sit on our hands and think that all of our history is going to count for long if we don't keep running. i'm a great believer that we drive and continue to drive u.k.

plc. there is such a lot of innovation and creativity growth, such a lot of expertise that sits on these small shores. anything we can do to keep that alive and keep it at its top game, i am all for. but we operate as a global organization and i'm going to go where there is strong capability to invest, with the markets are deeper, where the clients need us to the and where we can find opportunity, and i'm going to continue to look for that. but i'm a u.k.-listed co who can help want this to be great, too. francine: up next, robyn grew on being a female leader in an industry traditionally hope -- dominated by men. robyn: i'm hopeful we are going to see a better reflection of difference at the top of every organization, the financial services ordering that. -- or bordering that. anything.

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francine: women make up less than a quarter of employees at thousand hedge fund and other alternative investment firms globally. they are even more of a minority in senior positions. so when man group appointed an all-female leadership team last year ed markey massive shift for the company and a milestone for the industry. i continue the conversation with robyn grew. francine: 240 years old, man group is, first female chief

executive of institution is 240 years old. shouldn't happen earlier? are you optimistic about the future for females and finance? robyn: i am hopeful we are going to see a better reflection of difference at the top of every organization, be it in financial services or bordering that. has it been a long time coming? i can't help but they listen, it would be terrific if we could see more female ceos for me. and i hope we are going to see a lot after me. the difference is it is important and i think anything that enables us to put the most talented people at the top of organizations and to leave those organizations with enthusiasm and capability is what we are after. so i'm hopeful that i'm knocking down some doors, barriers, ceilings. francine: the first time someone

meets you, it is the infectious energy that people notice. is that how you been? robyn: i've been accused of being many things over my time, but that sort of slight duracell bunny, ever ready, just keep on going. i am admit that. i have an enthusiasm for what we do and a passion for what we do. it is sometimes like i am a big boom in the room, but it is something that i think is incredibly important. you don't do this job 98%. you do this job -- this is why my mathematicians hate me, but 100% plus. francine: will you always like that or was it something that you've learned? robyn: yes, and to some extent it is what has forged my career, that willingness and excitement to learn and to be part of fixing things, doing things better has been somewhat of a hallmark.

i have written this enjoyment for learning and doing things. i walk into the organization and in the short journey in london, if there is somebody in the elevator with me, i'm asking 1000 russians. they can't wait to get out of the door by the end of it. but it is interesting what is going on and what is happening and it is an interest in people. fundamentally i'm driven by being interested in the people i work with and in the people who we are here to work for. francine: so you started as a criminal barrister and went into finance three decades ago. robyn: something like that. francine: what made you switch? robyn: i loved being an advocate and perhaps i'm still an advocate in many ways. so what happened as i was in the criminal and civil part and i thought i will do this commerce thing. i will go back and become a commercial barrister. and it sucked me in.

and i never went back. the speed of change, the impact, the global nature, the challenge of just never stopped getting more and more infectious for me. and so that legal training, has it been useful, yes. has the advocacy thing been more useful, probably. but it has been just the best journey. francine: do you have bad days, and if you do, who do you call? robyn: who do call, ghostbusters. i've always been a half-full kind of person. every belief i have is that you make the best out of those tough days. of course there are tough days. of course, there are days when you put a challenge in front of you where performance isn't great or where i feel like we could have done a better job. those are moments we've got to move forward. you've got to take the next step forward. and that is what i do. i think it is resilience.

i think it is part and parcel of my makeup, to be resilient. who do i turn to? i turn to friends and family and i take a break, i take a breather. although normally not very long a breather because i get too excited by other things, but i fill my life with the things that are really positive around me. i have a great family around me, i have an extraordinary wife and a son and parents and friends and i am enriched by that. that enables me to take the next step. francine: do you think there is a difference being a leader in 2024 to what it was like even in 2010? as leadership or chief executive jobs come with more of a sense of purpose and kind of morally leading? robyn: i think that i don't know a different way of doing it in the way i do it, and that is with a sense of purpose for sure. when you speak and you are in charge of an organization, i think it is incumbent upon

leaders to be infused and to be passionate and to be engaged. i think when times are tough, when things are tricky in the world, i think it is important that you know that and that you acknowledge that in your organizations, and we have had some tough times in the world. beyond markets, in the world for people to live their lives. we run global organizations with people who come from places that are now in war zones, for that are too close to borders where there are war zones. where the challenges have been very real post-covid, over the issues are being felt materially in politics. and not to acknowledge that i think feels inauthentic. francine: when you're in charge

of a big organization, it is tough being close to your employees. how do you do that? >> it is about communication, being available and transparent. it is about setting your stall out, who are we, and how are we going to do that? how do we do that the best we can? my view is you do it by creating extraordinary and exceptional teams that have a focus and that understand the humanity of that. to do that, you need different people. to do that, different people come with different backgrounds and different flavors of their experience of life. it isn't an easy thing to do, it is just a thing we should do. it's tough. francine: also i guess employing people who will say no to you. how much do you think being surrounded by people who say no, this is not a great idea? robyn: i think it's critical. if i'm going to have people around me, their excellence

needs to be something i hear. it is less likely my executive team might get cross with me, but it is really not the most likely port of people from which the next brilliant idea is going to sprout and germinate. it is going to be other people within the firm. we need to hear that, and it's important that i am seen as capable of listening and changing my position. there are times when i am going to be less willing to change my position, but having somebody who is going to come from any part of your organization to say i feel this way about this issue and i don't think i'm being heard is important. francine: where are you in five years? robyn: i'm the best answer to every battery life, but perhaps on a renewable, rechargeable basis. where am i, i hope still leading man group.

i hope looking back on the last five years and thinking how i could do even better. i hope driving things with the same passion and enthusiasm, and i hope with the same brilliant set of people around me. francine: thank you so much. robyn: you're very welcome, thanks for having me. ♪ (jennifer) the reason why golo customers have such long term success

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