emma: i don't want my daughters wasting time thinking about how much they weigh, what they look like. and i think fashion has done a terrible job reinforcing an unrealistic beauty idea. francine: the entrepreneur who is driving a multibillion-dollar retail empire while trying to redefine the role the fashion.

business woman emma grede partnered with one of the most famous families in hollywood. she is chief executive and cofounder of the inclusive fashion brand good american, which she launched in 2016 with khloe kardashian. she is the founding partner of skims alongside khloe's sister, kim. emma: as a young, black female entrepreneur the only thing i could do was what i know from my experience, and the honest truth is i did not set out to create our company that was deeply rooted in the principles of inclusivity and diversity, i set out to make a company that was right for me. francine: in this episode of "leaders with lacqua" i speak with emma grede about her rise to the top, how she measures success, and why diversity remains elusive in the world of fashion. emma grede, thank you so much for joining us on bloomberg. this is so exciting. you represent so much for so many people. all the businesses you touch turn into gold. did you ever think that you would be such a success? emma: no. and that is mostly because most

of the businesses that i touched earlier in the days did not turn into gold. [laughter] i love this idea of overnight success and i feel i would love to continue to perpetuate that, but i have just done a lot and there has been a lot of trial and error along the way. i feel i have probably done every job imaginable, from having a paper route when i was 12 to working in a deli to working in shops to starting things that were less successful, i feel like it has been a long journey and i am thankful that now i am 41 years old and starting to see this type of success. which is really great. francine: you always wanted to succeed. is that what actually makes your success? emma: i think so. i also think there is an element of luck in any of these things. when you take apart what luck means, i believe when opportunity meets preparation, i was always prepared, and when my

opportunity came along i was ready to work for it. there is that old adage of a lot of hard work. i really put the time in, i think. francine: did you always want to be an entrepreneur? >> no, i never knew what entrepreneur was. if you would have asked me as a kid -- i came from east london and i did not know anyone who had their own business. everyone i knew went to work to pay their bills with usually very little joy in it. so even the idea of doing something that felt purposeful or meaningful or something you enjoyed really was not part of my understanding. i tried really hard to get close to what it is that i love, the fashion business. but i did not ever think about starting my own thing. i think it came out of a necessity. who is going to employ me and pay me what i think i deserve? and i left the company because they are not paying me properly. i will just have to pay myself. francine: age 24. that was the determination of making something.

emma: do you know what it was? i felt like i was adding a lot of value. and i think so many people through their careers have this feeling, i am adding a lot of value and i'm not being remunerated for what i bring to the table. that feeling became so strong. but what do you do? at 24 you do not really have many options. i went to a company and tried to do my best at the position i was given. and thankfully somebody saw that and decided maybe we will set this girl up on her own. i talk to young people that i employ or people trying to get noticed. i think that is such amazingly good advice. no one will look at you to do the next thing unless you are excelling where you are today. and so sometimes just buckling down and doing the best job wherever you are is the best way to get ahead. francine: but then actually making the step of leaving and setting up on your own, you have to be brave and it is not always easy. emma: i remember the first time i got a bit of backing and they said you will be in charge of your own pnl, i wrote it and went home and googled it.

like what is a pnl. sometimes naivete is the best thing. [laughter] i did not know what i didn't know, therefore i had to go for it and learn fast. and fail fast. and i think i have done -- throughout my career i have not made the best choices every time, but i think being part of a good entrepreneur is knowing when things are not going right and knowing what you don't know. i surrounded myself with the right people continuously. francine: what is the biggest mistake you learned from? emma: probably when i had my first agency itb and i was killing it in london, so there is this idea that the company was completely exportable. i went to the u.s., opened an office in new york, then i opened in l.a. and failed miserably. underinvested, did not bring the right people in, thought whatever i was doing would translate, and it didn't. i learned that the hard way by dragging people there and having to close it.

there is nothing like a bit of embarrassment to humble the soul. [laughter] had to pack my office back up. so that was a fantastic learning. i never let it break my spirit. i really truly took those learnings. when i started my second company in l.a., i was like, okay, this is where i need to do some thing different. i literally packed up my family and moved to l.a. i knew if i did something that would be successful, i needed to do it myself, i needed to be in the country and give it my absolute all. francine: was that giving it time to understand the market? it was difficult to do it from not being in the city? emma: being in country, being part of the fabric of that culture has been really important, especially for my business good american, that is really about what is happening at the moment, like where are we in society as women, where is fashion? and i think that has been really important to be where it is all

happening. francine: that is a bold move, selling denim to americans. [laughter] emma: nobody needs more bluejeans, let's be honest. i doubted myself when we started. again, coming to a business with mission and purpose at the heart of what we do is what sets us apart. there are so many brands, but how do consumers make choices these days? right now we make our choices based on what we believe in, what we want our children to see. i am a mother of four. i know only too well that i do not want my daughters wasting time thinking about how much they weigh, what they look like. and i think fashion has done a terrible job of reinforcing a really unrealistic beauty ideal. with good american the whole premise of the brand was we are going make clothes for all women and let women make their own choices. hopefully we will take some of that pain out of what it means to be left out of the conversation or not represented in fashion. we have done that pretty well i think. francine: you have this idea of inclusivity, of making women feel good. who do you talk about it with

first? emma: funnily enough, my husband. [laughter] i think we are both entrepreneurs. it is natural for me to bat any idea backwards and forwards with him. i worked for years in the fashion business. so i have been part of the problem. i have seen firsthand how some fashion businesses make women feel. and i think there is one thing, being very vocal and being an instagram activist and talking about something, there is a difference in putting where your money where your mouth is and trying to do something about the problem. that's what i did with that business, how do i take everything that i have learned and do the opposite? i think as a young black female entrepreneur, the only thing i could do was what i know from my experience. the honest truth is i did not set out to create a company that was deeply rooted in principles of inclusivity and diversity, i set out to make a company that was right for me and my friends, and if i have a problem, chances are someone else does. i think that is where so many businesses are created, where

you are solving a problem that is real for you and therefore real for the consumer. francine: is there a danger that some entrepreneurs look at numbers too much and look for the gap in the market? emma: it is very true. that is one way to approach things. there is a certain sense. but, for me, i go with my gut. i tend not go against my gut. i would be lying if i said i did not say i ran some numbers. and then feel like there was some commercial opportunity. nobody makes 19 sizes of anything without thinking, i reckon i can sell them somewhere down the line. i think much of what i have done in my career has been in response to a feeling i had, then acting on that feeling. francine: were you surprised how many other people felt like you? emma: yeah. [laughter] honestly, it is one of those things that, on paper good american has been such a massive success. wind back to day one, $1 million on day one. 9:00 i was a hero.

by 11:00 i had no stock left and everyone was like, you have no idea what you are doing, do you? i was like, actually, i do not. in a way, that was my first lesson from what it means to be excellent from the customer experience point of view. because i just started emailing people and being like how long do i think people will wait? turns out not that long. [laughter] francine: who are you emailing? customers, or both. emma: both. i was just like can you help me get more fabric? will you wait eight weeks for a pair of jeans? somewhere it all worked out. what people respond to is brands that have authenticity, and there is a level of honesty that is needed. i went and said we had no idea how popular and how much this would chime with customers, and if you are patient we will get you something. turns out we messed up and we don't want to disappoint you. and there is a part of that honesty that really chimed with people. they knew we were not feeding the line. it was clearly not written by pr, because i could not afford pr at that point.

[laughter] francine: and you sign it emma. emma: emma, x, how i speak to my mum or something. francine: coming up, emma grede on her attempt to break one of the last taboos in fashion and how success is making her reassess what it means to be an entrepreneur. ♪ francine: emma grede has madea

personal fortune by founding inclusive and progressive clothing companies. good american was the biggest denim launch in history when it made $1 million in sales on its first day. she tells me about her success and the challenges that remain across the industry. has fashion done -- it hasn't done enough when it comes to inclusivity and diversity, but has it done something in the last five to 10 years? emma: it is interesting. fashion, as quick as it is to change, like in the kind of aesthetic, it is difficult to change a system, right?

and i think that comes down to who makes decisions. the people who make decisions in fashion don't typically look like me. they aren't typically women all the time. when we look at who is at the helm on the biggest high street players, it tends to be the same type of people. i honestly think there is a lot of work to be done. progress has definitely happened, but you only have to look at the last new york fashion week, which is the biggest and most commercial, to see that there is so much tokenism around what inclusivity really means. i think that, especially when it comes to size, we are back where we were 20 or 30 years ago when you would have one single black model walked on the catwalk. now we are in that same situation where it is less than 3% of models that came down the catwalk were above a size 12. a size 12 is like less than average. there is so much work to be done there. size is almost the last allowed taboo. we are allowed to disclude

people because of their size. and it is really crazy. francine: i was reading something that people feel like rubbish when they look at this stuff because they don't feel represented and there is something wrong with them. emma: that is the whole reason i started the brand. seven years ago i was pregnant with my second child and i felt that deeply, like how much time and effort you can spend, and waste time. to me, if you take out some of that worry and the strife about w much we think about r looks and instead put our energy into saying i need a pay raise, i think i should be doing something else with my life, part of it was, what happens if you shift and change the paradigm of how people see themselves? and, you know, it is a really trite sentence, but representation really matters. when you see a version of yourself in something, there is a level of acceptance. that is what i wanted to do, level the playing field and say we all look different, and that is ok. that is not what we should be thinking about.

we should be thinking about equal pay. they're the things we should use our time for as women. let's just get an equality going with men. that means throughout the workplace, throughout all the industries. honestly i feel like the media is such a huge impact on us, not only just fashion media, but at large. we need to see better representation everywhere in society. francine: is that why you are doing "dragons' den?" emma: you asked me earlier, did i think about being an entrepreneur? i never thought about it. as i got more successful, i thought a lot about what it means to be an entrepreneur. they talk about being really small at the top, but it is the same people doing the same deals, giving each other money, who all typically went to one of five or six schools. because i am on "shark tank" in the u.s. the idea of "dragons' den," that you can be an entrepreneur with seemingly little background and absolutely no access to funding,

and walk on and get a check to start something that could mean something for you and your family, why wouldn't you? it was not long ago i was out fundraising. if i can be a small part of somebody's journey that would not usually get the opportunity, to me it makes so much sense. it is not just about women of color, if you did not have the means or the education to know anything differently than getting up and going to work every day, that does not mean to say you cannot have a successful business, i am like walking proof of that. i left school when i was 16 years old. i have done very well. to me it is about leveling the playing field. i love the idea of being seen on tv and people having that idea that they can be successful if they just get an opportunity. francine: is entrepreneurship in the u.k. different to the u.s.? in the u.s. there is almost a badge of honor of trying and failing and starting again. i don't know if there is a stigma in the u.k., but people are less bold.

emma: i don't think they are less bold. we are different here. we don't celebrate it in the same way. i find that really difficult to say, because i feel like i am so celebrated, especially where i'm from. people in london are so nice to me. i turned up at this office and two girls were like, we love you, high five. the right background and circles around you. access is really difficult. you know, for me, i raised my first check from my clients

what have you found hardest? emma: if i am really honest probably the funding piece. without the right background and circles around you, access is really difficult. i raised my first check from my clients because i built a business in fashion media, so i had lots of clients. the only "rich people" i knew were clients of mine that were paying me retainers. for me that was the easiest way. hi, remember me, would you like to give me $3 million? most of them said "no," but a couple said "yes." knowing where to go in the beginning, they are the barriers most people face. once you are in it, i think it is so much about the journey, like none of this stuff happens like it does on social media. i think just knowing that you are on a journey, and i honestly think the best way to start a business is with no money. you don't need to go out and raise tons of finances, you need to figure out what am i creating, where is my audience, and what am i uniquely good at? when you figure out what you are good at you know who else you need around you to make something really work. francine: kris jenner was part of your journey. emma: yes, very much so. francine: how did that shape the entrepreneur you are? emma: i think i have been lucky to be surrounded by so many incredible entrepreneurs, starting with my clients, also my husband, being around people

like kris, and having access and watching brilliant people as i grew up, just even on the tv. really soaking that up. i am one of those people that can learn from anything. i have read books about being an entrepreneur before i really knew what one was. so i really am someone that will take from any situation that you let me. francine: coming up, emma grede tells me why diversity is a superpower and what she's doing to try and improve access and opportunity. ♪ francine: emma grede is perhas

best known as the founder of skims. the shapewear brand was valued at $4 billion last year. i continued the conversation by asking emma about the business and her commitment to supporting diversity and black owned companies. skims is also huge. did you ever think -- what do you call it, an underwear shaping company? emma: yes, underwear, solutionwear. skims has grown so unbelievably. and, you know, that is kim kardashian's company, it was her idea from the outset. i honestly believe that we never thought that it would just be one thing. we always thought about it as being this huge company that would do lots of things. again, that company was based on just doing one product really, really well.

i think that is testament to any great company. we had so much focus in the beginning, here is what we are going to do, we are going to make superior shapewear in every single size and color and it worked incredibly well. francine: also selling to men. when is the right time to grow or go into a slightly different brand? emma: so interesting, because in good american, the first time we ever thought of going into another category was because customers asked us to. and i think it is a smart way to think about your growth and development in a business. you really have to listen. you cannot take that commentary, just the good things, because your customers will tell you what you need to hear and what you don't want to hear. it is like a big fat mirror. that is one of the things with social media that is so exceptionally important, because it is a reflection of everything you do. a reflection of your consumer base. if you are listening carefully enough, the data will tell you things. and all you need to do is tune

into that. when i think about category expansion, it really is in regards to or in relation to what customers are asking me for, and we make those decisions based on that. francine: how do you build a team that can say, no emma, this is not a great idea? emma: that is a great question. i think i spent about 25% of my time hiring. i will take speculative meetings even if i do not have a position available, because you are only as good as your team. to do what i do, you have to surround yourself with experts, like people that are really good at what they do. and part of that is being able to stand up to you and you being able to listen. when i think about myself as a leader, i really lead with empathy because i need people to say to me, that is a bad idea, or based on my experience. because, my experience is limited. francine: do you think it is different being a leader in 2024 than it was in 2004? emma: 100%, because the workforce has changed immeasurably.

we think post-pandemic, also the generation we are dealing with right now, it is entirely different. and you have to create a company that can succeed with the workforce it has at its disposal. them so i think there have been enormous amounts of change. francine: younger. emma: i think younger people have a different expectation of their life and work and how those two things fit together. like it or not, covid changed the working environment forever. and you either adapt or you die. i may have a certain opinion of how i want people to come into a space or business, but at the end of the day you have to work with where the culture is at. i'm not here to fight the culture. how do we work to maximize this? at the end of the day we want the same thing. francine: how do you spot a good entrepreneur on "dragons' den?" how do you decide whether you are all in? emma: i am so personality driven. a good idea is a good idea and white space is a white space. if i meet someone that does something to me, i feel it immediately.

like, it is you. francine: like, fire in the belly? how would you describe it? emma: that mad passion. i could get excited about an origami company if someone comes to me like -- i'm that person. i respond to that because that is who i am. i also respond that i am seeing a bit of yourself, knowing someone has not got another opportunity, i'm like, i will have a crack, i will have a go at you. francine: what is emma grede going to do in five years? [laughter] emma: i don't know. lie down? take a break? no, it is true, i will find something else. i am focused on my nonprofit work these days. i am the chairwoman of an incredible organization which is really focused on creating some semblance of balance in the world of black-owned businesses, figuring out how they can show up in retail with more balance.

and i honestly believe that any way that i can use my voice, my influence, and the knowledge that i built over this time for good is a good use of my energy. francine: why is it so underfunded still? emma: you know, it is so interesting, because it is about access. i think about this all the time, talent is fairly evenly distributed, opportunity isn't. what we need is to give more people opportunity regardless of race, background and all of the things. it is about leveling the playing field. we come back to that same idea, who gets to be an entrepreneur, who gets to make decisions? i believe the more we can open that up, the better it is for everybody. i have proven that diversity is a superpower. the more people you have at the table, the more customers you can serve. it is just good business. it is not about being holier than thou or giving someone an opportunity that does not deserve it, it is being able to service as many customers as you can. the more minds you have around the table that reflect your

customer base, the better. francine: emma grede, thank you so much for joining us today. emma: thank you so much. ♪ when i was your age, we never had anything like this. what? wifi? wifi that wos all over the house, even the basement. the basement. so i can finally throw that party... and invite shannon barnes. dream do come true. xfinity gives you reliable wifi with wall-to-wall coverage on all your devices, even when everyone is online. maybe we'll even get married one day. i wonder what i will be doing? probably still living here with mom and dad. fast reliable speeds right where you need them. that's wall-to-wall wifi on the xfinity 10g network.

francine: welcome to the best of the earthshot prize innovation summit 2023. i'm francine lacqua. founded by his royal highness prince william, the earthshot prize aims to reia