david: this is, uh, my kitchen table, and it is also my filing system. over much of the past three decades, i've been an investor.

[applause] the highest calling of mankind, i've often thought, was private equity. [laughter] and then i started interviewing. i watched your interviews, so i know how to do some interviewing. [laughter] i've learned from doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. jeff: i asked him how much he wanted. he said 250. i said fine. i didn't negotiate with him. and i did no due diligence. david: i have something i would like to sell. [laughter] and how they stay there. you don't feel inadequate now because being only the second wealthiest man in the world, is that right? [laughter] people who want to see great art often go to paris. there is another in abu dhabi. there is about to be a guggenheim in abu dhabi. who is behind building these museums? it is mohamed khalifa al mubarak . he is the chairman of the department of culture & tourism. i talked to him about why abu dhabi wants to be a tourist

attraction. for those not familiar with abu dhabi, where is it? mohamed: it is the capital city of the united arab emirates and sits on the arabian peninsula. we are a connecting point between east and west from present day and throughout history. david: the other major city people know in uae is dubai. mohamed: yes, sir. david: they have attracted a lot of attention because they have a fair amount of wealth and tourism attractions. what are you supposed to be doing in your role? mohamed: what makes this job interesting is the passion it instills. and myself and all of my colleagues. we have something quite special in abu dhabi. the continuous pursuit of the enhancement of quality of life. that is not just for tourists. it is about residents.

we work with partners to create experiences to keep up with needs. as you can see, almost every single year there is addition of experiences, institutions, new concepts that come in and create these fantastic curated experiences for people to cherish and enjoy. david: what is the population of abu dhabi? mohamed: the population of the uae is 11 million people. david: and abu dhabi is a fraction? mohamed: a little over 3.5 million people. david: your position is to make sure people come here and understand the attractions. you are building a lot of things. how long have you been in this position? mohamed: 20 years. at the department of culture & tourism -- i am very humbled and lucky to be working for a government that has visionary

ideas. their vision of investing and culture. they have not just been set forth in recent times. the idea of basically enhancing it with entertainment projects, projects like theme parks, public parks, beaches, etc. it has continuously evolved. david: for those not familiar with abu dhabi, when did it become as part of the uae, independent country? mohamed: 1971 but dates back thousands of years. the late founder of the country, he was a visionary man. through his vision you see the country being created that caters to the wants and needs of its people. history has continued on by its son, the current president. david: how was oil discovered in

abu dhabi? mohamed: oil was discovered prior to the formation of the country. when it was discovered it was thought of as, how will i utilize natural resources like we have always utilize natural resources? to create value for our people. david: before oil was discovered, the main business in abu dhabi was what? mohamed: through time we have always utilize natural resources, pearls, copper, we have always been a trade partner. we have ancient trade routes through ancient china. we have always traded natural resources throughout time, always utilize that. next up is utilizing the most important natural resources, which is us -- human beings. david: let's talk about some museums you have already built. when i want to see the louvre, i go to paris.

now i found out you have your own louvre. is that connected to the one in paris? mohamed: not by intent. the louvre of abu dhabi is in partnership with the louvre paris and in partnership with afm. that is a long-standing partnership. that partnership, there is a transfer of knowledge that has been transferred on a daily basis. there are loans that come from different french museums. it is compounded with acquired assets and teambuilding. david: they lend you some things from time to time and you lend them things? mohamed: absolutely. david: are they going to lend the mona lisa anytime soon? mohamed: maybe. we currently have the most beautiful paintings. there is da vinci's john the baptist. it is quite interesting because

it gives you a one-to-one view of everything you are looking at, whether it is a painting or artifact. it creates a passionate interaction. david: you are building another art museum called the guggenheim. the louvre is big enough, why do you need a guggenheim next door? mohamed: it is a good question. the beautiful thing about uae and abu dhabi is we have over 200 nationalities. we have become a part of the country's and city's fabric so we need to celebrate everybody's heritage and history. what a beautiful way in doing so with these beautiful institutions. the museums are educational and community institutions. we wanted to curate a story where you come to the cultural district and you start off at the museum. at the natural history museum to get an understanding of how we came to be, how are earth and universe came to be from a

scientific perspective. once you leave you go to the national museum. you understand the history of the great land. not just a history of the country but the people who have been a part of this land for over 300,000 years. you get a glimpse of the past, present and future in the uae. and then you moved to the louvre abu dhabi, a beautiful universal museum. there, you basically see a part of you on an equal pedestal with the entire world. and then you leave to the guggenheim louvre, a contemporary art museum focusing on art from the late 1940's to today but looks at it from a truly global perspective. you will see art that will be side by artists from kenya and the philippines and all around the world.

we wanted to make sure art inside the guggenheim abu dhabi is showcased in a south perspective. david: why not just build one? why do you have an affiliation with guggenheim? what can they do for you? mohamed: a mixture of things, similar to the louvre. working side-by-side with the team in the guggenheim new york and working on how we can detail this museum together. compounded by that you are taking years and blueprints of acquisition committees and other committees and taking them and evolving them to your wants and needs. david: museums are great. i am involved with a number in the u.s. also there are performing arts of the cultural world. are you involved in performing arts, as well? mohamed: absolutely. abu dhabi is a city of music. music is close to our heart. over 200 nationalities bring in

their musical touches to the story. our events calendar is filled with classical music to hip-hop, to pop, to korean pop, dance and the list goes on. we have pretty much sold out every single live musical event after covid. david: did you build a facility for these, as well? mohamed: yes, sir. david: who will go to all of these? your population is not that big. do you have people that will fill up all these museums and arenas? mohamed: first and foremost is the "why?" why are we building these? we truly believe culture is the backbone of any forward thinking society. culture has to be embedded in our dna. the institutions were not built for tourists. they were built for the residents and future residents.

then you have the tourism story. we are looking to target over 6 million tourists. david: where are the tourists coming from? mohamed: all over the world. you are looking at the indian market, chinese, russian, u.k. market, the western european market -- germany or france -- they are coming from everywhere. david: are the americans showing up? mohamed: absolutely. we are looking at double-digit growth from american tourists. david: when we had a popular museum attraction, we would get calls from people who wanted free tickets and they wanted access. do you ever get that request? mohamed: these museums are educational. all kids go in for free. all military personnel going for free. anyone doing research gets the

heavily -- they also get the right to enter all our research labs. they are educational and community facilities. david: what about private equity people? do they go in for free? mohamed: if they sponsor. ♪

david: as we talk there is a fair amount of turmoil in some parts of the middle east. what about this part of the middle east? is it affected by what is going on in israel, gaza, syria, lebanon or not so affected? mohamed: one thing we all as human beings look for is peace and harmony. nobody wants to see devastation happening anywhere around the world, regardless of whether it is next to you. the uae is home to over 200 nationalities, different religions and backgrounds. the focus is on how we keep our communities safe and make sure

we work with diplomatic ties to find a solution to cater to the wants and needs of the overall world when it comes to peaceful coexistence. david: in the u.s. there is a concern about immigration into the country as a political issue. here you have a lot of immigrants coming in -- more immigrants live here than the native people of abu dhabi. is that a concern? mohamed: not a problem. we are still a developing country and city. everything is done through a well-thought-out strategy. it is not just open our doors and everyone come in. you are looking for talent. teachers, nurses, doctors, engineers. people are helping us grow. david: sometimes populations grow quickly and you see a lot of crime. do you have a lot of crime here? mohamed: it is one of the safest cities in the world. there is a clear strategy to plan for that.

everyone who lives here loves the way of life and wants to sustain it. david: in europe and the united states you often see major cities, homeless people. i have not seen any here but maybe there are some. is homelessness a problem? mohamed: when it comes to the local population, i go back and say the government continuously works on enhancing the quality of life of the residents of the uae. us as locals we have opportunity for free land for housing, free medicare, subsidized power and water and a job opportunity. you are given the tools to succeed. after -- what you do after these tools is up to you. david: where were you born? mohamed: paris, france. . i moved to abu dhabi and grew up here. i had a fantastic upbringing. the society was amazing to be a

part of. always had a sense of how leadership is so close to the people on how it plans to make sure the people are comfortable and happy. my mother did an amazing job with my siblings and myself. we were very close. my brothers and sisters, we were a tightknit family. david: how many brothers and sisters? mohamed: one older brother and two sisters. david: your brother runs the investment arm. are your sisters involved with abu dhabi? mohamed: my sister works for the environmental agency here in abu dhabi. she is an advocate or of sustainability and safeguarding the environment. my other sister is a studied lawyer. right now she has an a very important job, focusing on her family. david: your brother once told me you have a big comic book collection. do you still collect comic

books? what would you do with them? mohamed: i fell in love with comics at an early age. i remember as early as i can, every time i would find a superman comic or a batman comic or x-men comic, whether d.c. or marvel, i would gobble them up. i run up to my room and sat in the corner -- i love the concept of creating something so imaginative, creating these worlds and characters that are so detailed but have so much weight to them. emotional weight. i love the concept of storytelling. that is what my job is all about today -- storytelling. whether curating museums with a fantastic team, curating experiences in theme parks, it is storytelling in itself. david: did you go to college in the united states? . mohamed: i went to college in boston at northeastern

university. an amazing four years in my life. i studied political science. i was always infatuated with museums. david: when you went to college in boston and told people he were from abu dhabi, what did they say? mohamed: i was lucky. i went to a university and a place where you had international kids from around the world so they knew where uae , abu dhabi was. they did not have a lot of information. the funny thing right now is every single student i went to school with has come to abu dhabi. they have come down here and called me and said, remember i was with you freshman year, sophomore year? i said yes. david: do they ask for free tickets to the louvre? mohamed: sometimes they do. i do not give my professors free tickets but the students i do. david: i have an hour to visit something, what should i visit

in my one hour? mohamed: due to our infrastructure, what i believe you can do in one hour, you being a concert enthusiast, i would recommend you visit the mosque. it is a beautiful mosque. david: one of the largest in the world. mohamed: the archaeology is stunning. you get an understanding of the beautiful space. may be spent 20 minutes there if you have an hour. it is a 10 minute drive to the oldest standing fort in abu dhabi. it is in the central of the city. you get a view of the entire city. spend 20 minutes. eight minutes later you are at the louvre abu dhabi and then you are the airport. we have a postimpressionist exhibition. some amazing van goghs. the future really lies on the idea that we have to stop. we do not have to stop. we have to continuously evolve and be better.

we have to continuously cater to the needs of what people want. ♪ you have had david: some nba preseason games here. are you planning on bringing any nba teams here permanently? mohamed: sports bring people together. we are big on sports entertainment. we started with formula one. not just focusing on the sport itself but creating musical experiences, food and beverage, retail, all engulfed over a weekend. the whole city celebrates formula one. we took it a step further with the engineering and the sports excellence component and embed it with our school programs and different educational programs. since we started formula one to where we are today, we have a

strong list of female drivers, male drivers, all aspects of racing within the uae and beyond. it is a long-term partnership with the story itself. the same with ufc. prior to the ufc investment there was investment in jiu-jitsu. today we have over 750,000 jiu-jitsu fighters in the uae that have won global metals. we are investing in the infrastructure. both hard and soft.

david: abu dhabi and uae is part of the gulf cooperation council. a number of countries blessed with having oil. they include saudi arabia, kuwait, qatar. are these other countries jealous? we want to have some tourists, too. they do not have anything quite like you have. mohamed: on the contrary, we have heard outside press talk about the competitiveness between even abu dhabi and dubai. we are all complementary. similar to what we see in places like the u.s. or europe. we will fly to the u.s., their

bucket list is to go to new york , los angeles, chicago, new orleans and the list goes on. same thing in europe -- paris, london, rome, and the list goes on. in this region, it is widely connected. it is in close proximity. the tourists will go to dubai, abu dhabi. we are all complementing each other with different experiences. david: let's talk about another side of your life, which is building hotels or refurbishing hotels or apartment buildings. this area has grown so much that some parts -- people in dubai say there are not enough residential properties for people who want to live here and work here. are you building more residential properties in abu dhabi and is it a real problem? mohamed: absolutely. it is a good problem to have.

if you look at the growth story, in 2008, we were launching two to three developments a year. fast forward to this year and we have launched 14 new developments. our market cap has grown fivefold spirit david: you have a publicly traded company. mohamed: our development pipeline has grown eight fold. you will say, who is buying? in 2021 11%, of my portfolio was international buyers. 2024, close to 30%. they are predominantly coming from southeast asia, asia, eastern europe and western europe. you might say why? why? to me is an easy question. they are coming to a place with a continuous pursuit of quality of life, one of the safest cities in the world, medicare

comes first, investment in government in medicare, infrastructure, public safety is always front of mind. it is a place continuously evolving to create policies to cater to the needs of the investor, the buyer, the homeowner. if you look at our sovereign funds, the adq's of the world, not only are they investing outside but investing within. ai, education, infrastructure, logistics. that is creating massive job opportunities in the uae and people from all over the world are taking advantage. i look at the uae as the land of opportunity. david: people are coming here and buying apartments. you do not need to be a city of abu dhabi to buy an apartment? mohamed: no, sir. david: how hard is it to become a citizen? mohamed: you do not need to be a

citizen to live here. long-term residencies have been added, golden visas for you and your household, short-term residency visas and there are opportunities for nationalization. david: will you stay in the private sector? what is your future? mohamed: the future lies on the idea we have to stop. we do not have to stop. we have to continuously evolve and continuously be better. we have to continuously cater to the needs of our future generation and that makes the job special. we are always thinking about the special. what is next for us? david: if you were to summarize what you would like the average person in the world to know about abu dhabi, what is the message echo mohamed: seeing is believing. we hear a lot of things. in reality, taken a step further. do your research and come.

once you see what is happening here it is very special. it is a place that is really a place of belonging, connectivity , understanding. everything we are doing is for the next generation of the generation after that. i would love for everybody to be a part of that with us. ♪

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erik: hello, and welcome to sao paulo and special coverage of "bloomberg new economy: new