i've been involved withanva for almost 11 years. ceo of lazard, as well as david they do use some a.i. as part of their product offering, but costa him at goldman sachs. canva started out as a tool for this is bloomberg. everybody to use to be more ♪ productive. southbound talking about the possibility of i.p.o. you'llee a lot of -- you'll see a lot of companies come out. caroline: is it all about coming to the u.s.? >> i think if you're a founder, no matter where in the world you are, a lot of them tell me it's their dream to i.p.o. in the u.s., so you'll see the best ones i.p.o. here. caroline: live from new york, that's where all the capital is and where people are excited about having their listings. this is "bloomberg technology." caroline: people are exuberant about m&a picking up. many would say the limitations on the magnificent seven to details this hour. the valuation spacex goes to new heights, reaching 300 $50 really make too many acquisitions, but is that a more furtive area of exit at least? billion after an insider deal. >> i hope so, but i'm skeptical. nvidia, md, intel invest in a we have a couple of issues with m&a. start up bringing light to the first being a lot of it was chips. we sit down with the ceo. blocked. you saw this morning that we had first, the markets. another one that was blocked,

currently, we see optimism the kroeger albertson's one. around the nasdaq 100. we might have a new ftc that crypto as well. will be more lenient in allowing once again, above the $100,000 them through. but right now, the m&a.i. market level. is shut down, especially for risk on across the board. folks in tech companies. we look at some of the points contributors under the hood of the nasdaq 100. caroline: where are you seeing a interesting to see the key lot of the activity in trying to get into deals? stocks on the move. are you still writing the apple, continued to have a good initial checks? have you been tempted by the november and into december, we see where on the back of the secondary areas? report apple is looking to be >> there's a lot of activity creating its own ai server chips happening there, but my taste has always been first check in designed especially for artificial intelligence and is and not doing the secondary. working with broadcom. that's where you spot these this is in so much more in founders with amazing talent. they'll probably go to i.p.o. if they achieve what they want. google went to i.p.o. i was there as a very early a moment. the geopolitics after that employee, and i watched that reopen the public markets in yellen interview. anna rathbun is with us. 2004. you have great companies in the i.p.o. and the market will boom again. when shuts were shut down after we have a risk on field. we see nvidia on the upside, enron and the first recession, the history doesn't quite repeat apple in the green, alphabet on itself, but boy, does it rhyme a a tear. lot. caroline: it does rhyme.

does the neverending wall of is this where we should be trading it? money going toward generative a.i. startups continue? >> there is a lot of excitement. >> we're already seeing it stop a little bit, right? ai has transformed that. the trouble with china come it ebbs and flows, and video nvidia have is to be in the cross not about nvidia or even models are doing -- the first the u.s., it is all about china. stage, a lot of them can't raise money anymore. when i say that ai has they're calling companies like transformed, we are talking canva and saying please acquire about apple and broadcom, amazon us, we're just out of cash. i think you'll see the first also designing its own ships. wave start seeing the bubble pop, and then you'll see a there's a lot to be excited second wave of applications, the ones that are changing how legal about. is done, changing how insurance the excitement about ai is no is done, changing how insurance longer a dream as it had been in underwriting occurs. i think those will have some 2023. going into 2025, we have more to value. we saw this from mobile look forward to. caroline: when you've got record firsthand. a lot of them all went can a put very -- all went kaput very, highs on the likes of google very quickly, or they were bought by google and apple. come alphabet, can you be you'll see companies, whether juicing these stocks any further? >> some of this is about the it's google, microsoft, or sort of keep the lion's share, tech names. some of it is about relative because they have access to all

the power. caroline: there's a lot of money valuation. coming in, it has to be said. the question in our minds as >> that's true, but a lot of the asset allocators, where would assets go? applications, the application if we take a look at the global economy and other areas of the companies for gen a.i. will add a lot of value. global markets as well as some caroline: this kaput moment, of the old economy stock names there are a lot of zombies out here, even the fundamentals don't look as exciting. there who are still clinging to unicorn valuations, but no one they are not the ones driving is quite ready to rip up the innovation. it is hard to get excited about other areas. you could see a lot of assets script mark it down. when it did actually happen? >> when they run out of cash. still driving into tech names. a lot of companies had crazy unicorn valuations, because the one more thing, a lot of the market was limited. all of a sudden in one fell political changes. swoop, after there was a big lina khan, it looks like she is out. recession, the dot com bust it looks like a lot of the hurdles that happen to be there in an the m&a and tech, that happens. i think we'll see this with some of the gen a.i. companies. the market will say we don't seems to be removed. have money for you, they won't have a profitable business model, just how e-commerce not necessarily about where the companies never made a dime. valuations are just for tech, it is relative valuation as well as they lost money. you'll see the business model play out, and then all of a what will the environment be like. sudden with no more cash being caroline: although the trump able to be raised. announcement for doj has a many

caroline: where are you talking people worried for alphabet come about the application here on the foundational part? alphabet continues to be at a record high. >> i think it's between the are you not given pause on the foundational model. they have lots of funding. antitrust side of things for you have the applications that that name or others? >> that particular name i think are taking advantage of some of it is well on its way. the new features and new i don't think necessarily author that will fit into that bill but launches happening. but there are a lot of companies i'm talking about the general in between that were using some environment for m&a as well as of the modeled to do better tech. videos. that's where you'll see a lot of to your point, it is not all roses here. wreckage. caroline: wesley, always great to have you on the show. there is this aspect of freedom of speech. from fpv ventures, looking ahead i don't know how that is going to be defined in 2025 for tech to 2025. wesley used to work at google, i should talk about google for a especially social media moment, because there's a new platforms. it is not all roses but version of its flagship a.i. certainly a lot of hurdles have model. been removed. gemini 2.0 saying it's twice as caroline: what about some of these winning trump trades? fast as the previous version. the new model can generate images and audio across will that broaden out? languages, can assist during google searches and coding is it going and other parts of projects. meanwhile, adobe also rolling the ai ecosystem, energy for out new features, this one is example? >> i think we have to see ai and a.i. video product, much more slowly than open a.i.'s rival other tech advancements actually

service. there's been concern it's falling behind. make it into these old economy the company announced it two names or even other tech names months ago and it remains in that are not so much chip-based. limited testing. meanwhile, it's made available consumer innovation on that and to a wide audience just this where the rubber hits the road, week. we await the numbers after the bell. how ai would actually impact coming up, tiktok shop, it's these industries. trying to gain ground as much as and until then, it feels like we are running on fumes. possible ahead of the possible that is probably why it has not ban in the united states. we'll discuss. this is "bloomberg technology." broadened out yet but we will ♪ see in 2025 if there is a difference. caroline: you said there's a lot to look forward to in 2025. we still wring our hands up generative ai other than the ability to have an analyst asked me every time i want to research. it's not enough in terms of the return on investment? >> i don't think so. we got a glimpse in 2024 were all this hype about ai and how these big companies are investing in ai was simply enough to get the price up but then we started to look for our

rely on them. i think the market may be looking for a little more in 2025. we love to see something a little more concrete. but i think that is where these tech companies are running really hard because this is about market share and about running to see who the first mover is. if they don't catch it first, they will lag behind. i'm looking forward to the innovation that is to come. caroline: anna rathbun, thank you. let's talk about some of the names we referenced a little bit more. tesla, qualcomm, nintendo. these are some of the global stocks to watch the coming year. trucking some 2000 companies from a variety of industries and they have identified 50 that are worth watching closely. many of them are tech companies. let's bring in max to talk about a trump trade. it is up 300%.

tesla has been phenomenal growth since trump came into the administration. what are the analysts thinking? >> give a trump trade and a general vibe-ai thing going on in those feeding and. palantir sma i connections as well as it is a defense contractor. there's a case there that maybe they will do better. tesla, elon musk having the ear of the president-elect is a good sign. with both of those stocks, there is a sense that they are very highly valued, perhaps relative to where structural revenue is -- their actual revenue is. it isn't as far ahead as google or openai. tesla talks a lot about self driving cars but they have not sold one. that is the tension. caroline: the interesting shift we have seen this may be a slight pullback on chip companies.

a lot of exuberance in 2023-2024 has been factored in. broadcom, working on the apple ai chips. >> broadcom is a handful of caroline: we have a new intraday companies i can try to compete with nvidia. defensive coordinator being hit it has directly benefited from for tesla. keep an eye on the stock. this extreme exuberance in ai. we're currently up 2.77%. at one point we were gaining the chip world has a more direct 3.35% to hit the first intraday benefit to ai. record since 2021. they are selling chips or the enthusiasm around tesla, of intellectual property being used whether or not chatgpt becomes a course, since the new president-elect trump was usually transformative thing or announced in early november not. micron is in the memory being priced in. meanwhile, let's shift our gears business, not a direct to tiktok. another one to focus in on on participant in the ai market. the trump administration. although it just signed a deal with the biden administration to it's currently offering users hundreds of dollars to spend get a huge subsidy for a chips time in the app and invite friends to join and purchase products on tiktok shop. plant. jim companies -- chip companies this is part of an efforts to have done well. expand as quickly as possible caroline: we think of content, ahead of a possible ban in the itv been looked at and the united states. quite extraordinary some of the united kingdom, nintendo. ways they're introducing users. where else are we looking in terms of consumer focus? >> i haven't seen this

>> entertainment is interesting. particular one before, and i think what's so interesting is in to no, the switch 2. they've already had 170 million the new version of the console. americans using the app. two other names, fox. it is mother americans than voted in our last election. and this shows that they are we have been reading a lot about the murdoch trauma. still trying to get more. as you said, really maximize fox has done ok given the before this potential ban goes into effect. caroline: what is the idea, more general declines in tv consumption, linear tv people, more of the 117 million consumption and so on. that already use it, will be a bigger outcry if, indeed, we are the other one is imax comes a going to see it banned or if large green movie theater format. they choose not to divest from that is a challenging industry. byte dance? >> absolutely. movie theaters are going through the thought is it's best to do transition. these james cameron movies are as much as they can and grab as much as they can to both bought into imx and have been doing well. increase the value of the caroline: max come amazing how company and also to make the app more deeply entrenched in the you have managed to pull through some of these stocks for us. americans' everyday life and the we love it on this top 50 to american economy before this watch. spacex hits an astronomical $350 potentially comes to pass. and so what you're seeing in this offer now when folks are opening up the app is that they billion valuation. are being offered up to $350 more on the most valuable start up in the world. basically to spend in cash rewards on tiktok shop, which is

♪ still one of the biggest bets for the company and one of the areas where they are trying to invest the most. caroline: and they're expanding in europe as well, spain and airland. but how well is it doing? do we have any since of how many people are using this in the u.s.? >> we know that tiktok shop is wildly popular here. we know that tiktok or byte dance, its parent company, had aimed to get users to spend $17.5 billion on the app this year. we know that they just had triple the black friday sales this year than they had last year. we know that they're doing very well. as far as outside the u.s., it just launched yesterday in spain, so it's a little bit newer. but i think what we can say looking at the u.s. numbers is that all the regulatory scrutiny really hasn't done much to dampen interest in the e-commerce arm of the platform. caroline: trying to gain the u.s. users. alexandra, thank you so much from san francisco. paid product reviews online, which merchants can use to gain a competitive edge, they're

under scrutiny. first it was the government cutdown. and now amazon itself is asking shoppers to provide information about product testimonials they posted. bloomberg has done a deep dive here. while amazon is under pressure to work out who it is, shouldn't be paying such influence. >> yeah, the interesting thing here is that they're looking beyond amazon. amazon for years has tried to clamp down on fake reviews. they've looked at scams where people were maybe taking payments on pay pal in exchange for reviews on amazon. and what's happening now is they're actually reaching out to people who posted reviews on amazon and saying, hey, what dined of relationship do you have with this brand or product? what kind of videos are you posting on tiktok and youtube and instagram? and that's the interesting development here, amazon looking beyond its own platform for signs of this kind of review abuse. caroline: what is the

comeuppance from the abuse and for whom? >> that's a really good question. we know that the ftc is looking to clamp down on this, and they're saying they can go pursue civil penalties. that rule just took effect earlier this year. that's where amazon is still unclear exactly where it fits in. if they turn a blind eye to it, that would be difficult for them. i think they have to show that they have some sort of proactive mechanisms to weed these things out to avoid culpability. and then maybe help the ftc go to another target, which could caroline: apple and broadcom stocks on the move today after be the actual review writer and enders apple is working with broadcom to develop its own brand that's in collusion. server chips designed specifically for ai. but then the other aspect of this is just that it's reaching the latest report coming from the information. beyond its sight. it's sending a message, be apple will be delivering ai careful about those campaigns. you run on tiktok or youtube, chips of its own. trying to sell your amazon the nuance here we are learning products, and maybe bring some who is doing it? >> this morning of that back to amazon, where they prefer to have it. apple announced iowa's 18.2, the caroline: yeah, because latest version of ios, going to advertising has been a really strong line of growth for them. >> exactly.

be available today. eastern. around 1:00 amazon has never been good at discover. if they want to be discovered, they try to get discovered on tiktok and youtube, where people kind of are noodling around. you have a lot of models that run on device itself. amazon has always been a place to spear fish. those capabilities can be so is this a way for amazon toe processed on the phone, ipad, maybe send a warning sign mac independently but in some against those kind of campaigns with influencers on other cases they need to go to the cloudlike writing tools, platforms? caroline: spencer soper, we summarizing text, summarizing articles. appreciate it. for that you need your own thanks so much. let's check in on what's been a server infrastructure. key move in the market today. what apple has done is created broadcom from a points tweaked versions of the m2 ultra perspective really adding to the chip and the m4 to be s&p and the nasdaq 100 more broadly today. it's up 5.6%. cloud-based service to the ai why? because reports are coming out process. what this report says today is of the information, which basically build on the reporting there's a new generation version from our own mark german, that of that chip in development for apple is all in on building its lunch about two years from now. -- for launch about two years own a.i.-specific server chips. who are they using to do that with? broadcom, up 5.5%. from now. we see big moves, some record highs across the board as well. keep a close eye on the likes of what broadcom is good at is google, alphabet, and amazon. bringing that data in and out.

apple and broadcom have been that does it for this edition of working together for a number of years. "bloomberg technology." broadcom exit combined wi-fi and do not forget to check out the podcast. find it on the terminology, as bluetooth chip. well as online on apple, spotify and iheart. this is bloomberg. broadcom is continuing to work ♪ with apple on radio frequencies, filters. this is just a continuation of the apple modem or the apple broadcom partnership i should say and new generations of ar servers. it shows apple's commitment to artificial intelligence in doing this much is possible in-house. caroline: committing we can get connectivity wherever we might be. you pointed out the apple watch and how they will be using satellite going forward. >> back in 2022 with the iphone 14, apple launched a feature called emergency sos over satellite. that allowed the first advertisement for that showed is

if you are injured or trapped in a remote area without cellular connectivity, can tap into a satellite network operated by global start and send a text message to emergency services or file sort of radar or sos to emergency services and they will find you. they explained that earlier this year with ios18. if you are a hiker, you need to bring your iphone with you. the watch is geared toward hikers and they will update about a year from now with its own satellite connectivity meaning you can leave the phone behind and still have the peace of mind being able to reach emergency services and say on the grid while you are off the grid out of cellular range. caroline: mark, great to have some time with you. all things apple. let's shift to spacex. investors have agreed to improve -- according to an email.

you've been reporting on this valuation for a while. we get confirmation. it seems as a lot of people did not want to be selling off their shares. >> that's right. elon musk even tweeted a confirmation of this. we had reported last week that they were close to finalizing the $350 billion valuation. a world record for private valuation that has not been finalized. my colleague obtained the document confirming our scoop. it is 185 a share. caroline: which is a significant uptick from $112 a share we were talking about just a month ago. all of this optimism is allowing people who have been long-term holders on spacex to cash out. do we have any idea who those people are? spacex has been buying back some of the shares but not as many as they were anticipated to be able to. >> sure.

it is up $100 billion from where they were talking a month ago. there is been a surplus of demand because, first of all, elon's ties to trump, trump's election are seen as valuable to some of the shareholders. and spacex had his -- had a successful rocket launch last month. both of these thingse perceived. a lot of these private companies ♪ ♪ ♪ it's time to try defying gravity ♪ ♪ i think i'll try defying gravity ♪ [ vocalizing ] experience possibilities through sport are not necessarily valued based at challengedathletes.org. and see "wicked". >> welcome to "bloomberg on their cut metrics but where markets." i'm scarlet fu. the latest inflation report supply meets demand and often it is based on a vision for the future. since apparently they had access cements cutting rates. stocks getting a lift here. -- they did not have enough the s&p 500 up .9%. sellers. so they had to raise the price this looks like a rally here. to match supply and demand. certainly the big tech names are caroline: greatest american at the leading edge of that with success this would jared big tech, the biggest of the big tech, of up by 2.4% on the day. isaacman, vanessa chief pick from trump is calling spacex the two-year yield, which is today. most expensive to central bank

katie roof, we appreciate it. policy, here by one coming up, scott strazik is basis point, but it's been stuck around these levels. going to be joining us. a quick mechanics here of the this is "bloomberg." ♪

caroline: a looming problem facing ai bloom, how the technology will be powered. the race is on. one of the key players, ge vernova. they hope to produce the sort of power that can put ai in action. here to talk about it, ceo scott strazik. on the back of an investor event, outlining the demand you will be seeing from ai. can you put that into context how much will be increasing?

>> ai is one of many factors striving for the first time in 25 years for single load growth. it is ai, electrification of transportation, homes, also u.s. manufacturing are playing roles leading to a substantial increase in load growth right now. we are seeing a number of businesses. we are seeing substantial increase and orders for gas power right now, a grid infrastructure equipment, working with hyper scalars going back to that question on how we decarbonize this increased load growth that is clearly coming this decade. caroline: to decarbonize, is that about nuclear? >> it is going to be a little of the above. he will be a lot of decarbonization of gas the next decade with hydrogen, carbon capture. as an example, we have a plant right now that we will be able to parlay similar technology on our gas turbines over time.

nuclear is important. we have 65 nuclear plants with our technology running today in the u.s. we can operate those plants and provide more electrons this decade. we have what will be the first modular reactor there will be commissioned this decade in 2029. that will become a bigger part of the hyper scale or demand cycle into the 20 30's and we are excited about that. caroline: people of and handwringing the last i can read how much china has invested in nuclear and how u.s. has not. have you been talking about this for a while and everyone is come to the same realization? >> the activities have accelerated in the last 24 months. i remember sitting in dubai at cup 28 with 20 heads of states and we need to trouble the nuclear capacity in the world between now and 2050. the sentiment toward nuclear coming that way both whether it be with business or government. his intellect this is going to be our time for nuclear. we are excited about what we can

do to make that a reality. caroline: where people not looking? it is interesting perhaps would miss in the wit -- weakness in the wind area. >> the wind area at large is one that is still going through more of a maturation process, industrializing the product at scale relative to gas, relative to nuclear just have longer legacies. stronger supply chains. stronger safety and quality cultures and those supply chains and totality. when you talk about these different power generation technologies, where people are missing, he comes back to the grid. regardless of which technologies are going to power the slow growth, we need to make a massive investment in the grid in the years to follow. physically and grid software. those are big parts of what we are investing right now. caroline: does this have to be public-private partnerships? >> we do stand for those for sure.

these are big electrical equipment systems that built over 100 years with public-private partnership roles. a lot of the innovation needs to come from us so we can't wait for the government so we are investing considerably in grid software as an example. caroline: does that impact profitability? long-term the analyst you are investing today are loving the long tomb future for margin growth -- long term future for margin growth. are you having to put money into r&d? >> we are investing. we are going to grow 20% in 2025 because the market is telling us there is real opportunity to yield a return on that investment over time. the amount of electricity that is going to be needed in the next two decades probably can only be compared to the period after world war ii. it is substantial. it is important for economic growth and stability in the world. we are investing in the future by doing it with high confidence we will yield a return on that investment.

caroline: you generate about 25% of the world's electricity. what does he was look like compared everywhere else? >> it really is and all of the above theme. we are building out our manufacturing facility in for gas turbines in greenville, south carolina, investing in our nuclear facility in wilmington, north carolina, and building the largest onshore wind turbine in upstate new york. throughout the u.s., we are building stronger local manufacturing to serve the growing market not just for you at just u.s. but as we make these innovative investments, we can export that technology for the world. both for economic development there but also for peace. caroline: big thoughts, scott strazik. >> thank you for having me. caroline: the chip the powers always latest smartphone is not so different from the one that set off bells in washington.

the discovery suggests while weight is still about five is behind. a group has been fined $45 million for the nation's financial watchdog for failing to follow in time in -- anti-money laundering rules. this was routine review was not related to actual cases of money laundering. china's stock market watchdog, ordering the company to fix its refunds first policy. it allows customers to claim refunds without returning goods. the decision comes as a growing number of small merchants argue their practice really hurts their bottom line. coming up, backing from three huge chipmakers. we will be speaking with the ceo mark white on how he's bringing light to chipmaking. this is "bloomberg technology." ♪

investment opportunities are everywhere you turn. but at t. rowe price, we're letting curiosity light the way. asking smart questions about opportunities like advances in healthcare. and how these innovations will create a healthier world tomorrow. better questions. better outcomes.

caroline: welcome break to "bloomberg technology." i'm caroline hyde in new york. the nasdaq pushes higher. risk assets go higher as we get the inflationary pressure coming in as anticipated, north of 3% on the c.p.i. we are currently up 1.6%. really some of the big tech names lead us higher. going to the individual movers, we've got record highs out there across the board. a large part is on alphabet, four straight days of gains, the biggest winning four-day streak we've seen since back to march 2023. enthusiasm around the quantum innovation being seen with the willow quantum chip. add to that, gemini 2.0 being released today. innovations in a.i., all of this seems very much a circle, despite the antitrust overhang.

moving to some of the individual stories on the day, we've been looking at chip makers and news coming out, reiterating what's already been reported, that yes, apple is looking at a.i.-focused server chips, and who do they turn to? long-time partner, broadcom. we're up 6.3% on the back of broadcom. the volatility remaining around super micro after they got the extension to give their financials to the nasdaq by february. let's talk more about the private side and the chip question a little bit more. ayer labs has just raised money in its latest funding round, the likes of nvidia, a.m.d. ventures, intel capital are three big chip companies using what is the next technology. ayar labs' c.e.o. joins us now. i want to get the context for our viewers. what exactly is going on here?

how does photons, ultimately light, help reduce the bottle necks in chips at the moment? >> first, caroline, thanks for having us here. i'm excited to be here talking with you. i think the way to think about this is everyone is familiar with and have been tracking all the innovations coming out, the exciting applications happening in a.i. but the a.i. application has really broken the back of existing computing infrastructure. we've seen a lot of innovation happening on the compute side, so people like nvidia building g.p.u.'s, and we've seen how they get deployed in huge a.i. data center deployments, so tens of thousands of g.p.u.'s. you have to connect them all together, so now we're at a point to where the bottle necks are happening in how you connect them together and start to drive to higher performance, overall systems, more interactive, a.i. models. these bottle necks show up as lower performance, higher costs, and drive a lot of cost pressure

in the a.i. application that's not on top of it. we're looking to bring the innovation to solve that. caroline: how quickly are we talking about, hearing in the next couple of years, mass production? we're bringing a low-roll innovation to the high-volume semiconductor world, and products in this entice always take a few years to get to it, and the way to think about where we're at right anyway, what differentiates us, we have a chip that we ship today. it's got thousands of optical devices. we've really brought a level of integration and performance that's never been seen before, but we're shipping in the tens of thousands of units. the market demand is tens of millions. up the high-volume

manufacturers, global foundries, intel foundry, we're working on bring this forward and scaling it in the next few years. think of this as still a couple of years away. caroline: who are you currently shipping to? >> we're shipping across a number of customers that we strategically work with, and how they're using it right now, is one, making sure the core technology works. we invented a few technology, so before you commit to deploying that in high volume, you have to conduct tires and say, ok, there's new elements here. there's innovation we've done. does it actually work? how is it yielding? how is it behaving in terms of reliability? a lot of our customers are consuming tens of thousands of parts to really prove out that this technology is poised to scale into the millions. caroline: when you think about nvidia, a.m.d., intel, all of

them fierce frenemies, we're all to all work equally to get access to your technology? >> yeah, i think the way to think about this is everyone's realizing that a transition towards a new scale of optical technologies and optical products is very important for all of their future deployments and products. is we've always viewed this as broadly deployed and you're bit wick out technology. yes, you're right, this is notorious for frenemy engagements, suppliers, partners, sometimes you're competing. i think that's just how this world works, and ultimately it rewards those who innovate generation after generation, and we're on the forefront of bringing optical products to the broad market, so that's how we view it, and we see our partners really working closely and well with us to realize that vision. caroline: you came out of academia where a lot of this was born. what about the profitability, the business model for you?

what layer are you getting paid? >> yeah, that's a great question. part of the innovation here is that we're bringing the power of semiconductor design, which has done phenomenally well in the world of electronics and companies like nvidia, a.m.d. but we're bringing a photonic element to that. we ship a known good chiplet, so it's a silicon chip we ship toe our customers, and they question from grate that into their packages, switches, memory interfaces, g.p.u.'s. this really becomes a ubiquitous, largely deployed proliferation of optical technologies, and we sell a chip. caroline: at the moment, who makes those chips is global foundries, intel. you're talking to tsmc. will we just see all of those three be the ones that bring you to mass production by 2026? >> that's right, i think the other thing to latch on to here is that the leading edge foundries are getting involved.

global foundries, intel foundries, tsmc, they've all made public statements about what they're doing, and we're working closely with all of them. year excited about how this is coming together. and yes, we need the scale of manufacturing to deliver to the tens and hundreds of millions of units the market is demanding a few years in the future. caroline: mark wade, really appreciate your time. meanwhile, shift our attention to g.m. shutting down its cruise division. they want on offer autonomous driver as the future of models. it will save the company over a billion dollars in annual costs. coming up, what's in store for the i.p.o. market ming into 2025? the co-founder of f.p.v. ventures is with us. ♪

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caroline: this is "bloomberg technology." this is the principal room. check out the podcast, find it on the terminal, as well as online on apple, spotify, and iheart. this is bloomberg. after potential filings from companies like klarna, what's the outlook for tech i.p.o.'s heading into the next year? how long will the valuations remain 10 heady? wesley chan is with us from fpv ventures. you've got a lot of thoughts. we are getting excited for potentially i.p.o.'s to reopen, particularly as we see a new administration. everyone is talking about more pro-business. is that going to happen? >> i think so. everyone is very excited about 2025, especially 2026. if more interest rates fall, you'll see a lot of people pump more money into the markets, and you might have a wonderful season of i.p.o.'s. we're still waiting it out right now. it hasn't happened.

fingers cross it had does really well, and i think that will open up the doors for more people to want to come out to the market. caroline: there's been some bitter pills to swallow on clarna. the valuation has improved from recent years. what does that speak to in terms of where the valuations will lie when we come to the public market? >> it will still be down from the last couple of years. you remember we had zero interest rates, so we had had an outrageous amount of money in the market. with the pandemic and stimulus, people pumped money in as if everything was great. i think what you'll see is only the best companies will come out at the beginning, and those best companies will get valuations that are reflective of being unique and exceptional. caroline: are those best companies have to be generative a.i. waiting.