david: this is, uh, my kitchen table, and also my filing system. over much of the past three decades, i've been an investor. [applause]

the highest calling of mankind, i've often thought, was private equity. [laughter] and then i started interviewing. i watched your interviews, so i know how to do some interviewing. [laughter] i've learned from doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. jeff: i asked him how much he wanted. he said 250. i said, fine. i didn't negotiate with him, and i did no due diligence. david: i have something i would like to sell. [laughter] and how they stay there. you don't feel inadequate now, because being only the second wealthiest man in the world, is that right? [laughter] the library of congress is the largest library in the world. it's led by carla hayden, the librarian of congress. she is unique because she is the first woman to to be librarian of congress and the first black woman to be librarian of congress. i sat down with her recently to hear about how she's trying to open up the library of congress to all americans. so why does congress need a library? can't they just use the regular library? why do they need their own library?

dr. hayden: congress, think about this. in 1800, a new nation, a new legislative body, there was the thought they needed some reference books, and they were mainly law books, the first books that were purchased, about 600 books. and that's how the library of congress started. think of the name, the library of congress. so, it is a reference and research tool for congress, and they knew that because they have parliamentary libraries and they knew about those types of things. so they knew as legislators, they might have to refer. david: now in 2024, the library of congress is much bigger than it was when it was first started in 1800, but is it properly named the library of congress now? because isn't it more than just a library for congressmen and women? dr. hayden: it has evolved. and over time it evolved into not only the reference tool for congress, and there still about

500 experts in just about every field that are dedicated to being the researchers and nonpartisan experts for congress. and that is still there. but the library has expanded to serve the people that congress serves. so, now it is the largest library in the world with 178 million items. and it serves everyone. now, the only people who can actually check out materials in the traditional sense are members of congress and their staff members. but members of the public, the general public, can come into the library of congress' facilities and use materials on-site. david: let's suppose i'm a person who wants to use the library of congress for research and i need some books i want to take home, to read them at home. i cannot do that as a regular person? dr. hayden: you cannot do that.

what public libraries and university and college libraries throughout the united states, and even some international facilities, the library of congress will loan materials to another library and a patron could look at the materials right there. but they could not take them home. but they could look at them in their own library. david: what does the librarian of congress actually do? dr. hayden: ah. now, the librarian of congress is basically the ceo of the entire enterprise. and that includes the u.s. copyright office, the library of congress in 1870 became the administrative operation and, really, the main manager of the u.s. copyright system. that's also how the library collection grew. because when you register for copyright, whatever it is, you are required to deposit two

copies of whatever it is. now, that could be wallpaper or video games, but books. when the library of congress became the administrator of the copyright system, they were able to then select from deposits and the collection really grew. david: so, we've had the library of congress, started in 1800. how many women have been librarians of congress before you? dr. hayden: i am the first female librarian of congress since 1802. so, the library itself was established, the law books in 1800, and in 1802 there was a thought, we need somebody to manage this. and that's when the first librarian of congress was appointed. david: how many african-americans have been librarian of congress before you? dr. hayden: that's also me, and so i am a two-fer in terms of

that. so, there have not been any people of color or females. and it's interesting, one of the most unusual parts of me being in the position is the fact that i'm a female, because librarianship is one of what they call the four feminized professions, where 85% to 90% of the people who work in the institution are female, but the top management doesn't reflect that. david: so is there a library that's bigger than the library of congress anywhere in the world? does any country have a bigger collection of books than the library of congress? dr. hayden: we have just been designated in the guinness book of world records as the largest library in the world, and our closest competitor -- and it's really not competition -- is the british library. that's the national library of great britain. and we have a friendly kind of rivalry, but in terms of number of items, we definitely are the largest. david: so you have more than

books. you have regular books, comic books, you have maps, you have manuscripts. dr. hayden: photographs, film, all types. any format. david: let me ask you, today, almost everything is digitized, it seems, so why do we need libraries, since you can go on a computer and get everything? do you need to really keep all these books? why not just digitize them and say, thank you? dr. hayden: there are so many items that have not been digitized and might not ever be digitized. when you think about the diaries of theodore roosevelt, the library of congress has the papers of 23 presidents, from george washington to coolidge. there are still analog materials that could be digitized, but will be in analog form. and books, even though you can get things in digital form, there are still people and there still will be an appetite for a physical item. but the future is definitely digital, and so libraries like the library of congress, british library, all libraries, are

making sure that they have the infrastructure to be able to get materials that are born digital. and so, we have quite a bit of materials that are coming in. they never are in analog form, they are coming straight in digital form and we are able to circulate them. david: as we talk now, what do you think you have done in your time, eight years or so, to open up the library to the average citizen more than what was done before? specifically with respect to children, what have you done? dr. hayden: well, we have started to be a cardmember, to use the 18 reading rooms at the library of congress you have to be 16. david: why do you need a card? dr. hayden: it is a card, it is a reader's card to give you access to the materials, to say you are responsible, even though you can't check them out.

it's to have a record of who is coming in to do that. what we've done is expand the offerings we have for young people. we have a young people's ambassador for literature. we have literacy programs. and you have been involved in giving actual awards to literacy groups that help young people learn how to read. and so, the offerings we have for young people have expanded greatly. david: literacy is a big problem in the united states. i think 14% of adults are functionally illiterate, which means they can't read past the fourth-grade level. that is a large percentage of the population. nothing the library of congress can do can completely solve that problem, but are you surprised at how any people still cannot read in this country and how many people have another problem called aliteracy, which means they can read, but they do not choose to read? dr. hayden: they don't. david: is that a growing problem? dr. hayden: it's a challenge in the digital age, because people are reading on tablets.

so, we count that as reading. if you have an e-book, you are reading the book. i am often asked, if i am listening to a book, are you reading, does that count? there is a concern that the amount of reading, actual text people are doing, is diminishing. so, how do you work with other organizations? the library of congress connects to other libraries, school libraries, and do joint programming with them. because there is an opportunity for us to let people know and make reading more interesting. david: so, literacy is a challenge, for sure, but in libraries around the country, are libraries being used more and more because people cannot afford to buy books, or because it is a good place to gather where it is quiet? why do we have these thousands of libraries anymore when people are often doing things digitally

and they don't need to go to a physical place to get a book? dr. hayden: people are using public libraries as opportunity centers. they use the high-speed computers to fill out job applications, to interact with government. the whole e-government aspect. they are using libraries as places to register to vote. to vote, and all types of things. and libraries are offering collections that are beyond books. so, libraries are circulating and responding to communities in so many ways. ♪

david: so, let's talk a bit about your background, how you became a librarian. where were you born? dr. hayden: i was born on the campus of florida a&m university. a historically black college in

tallahassee, florida. david: and were your parents teachers there? dr. hayden: yes, my father had been recruited to start the string department at that school. he was a classically-trained violinist. and string instruments, and so he was there. my mom was a pianist. she was his accompanist many times. so, they went down there. they had never been to florida, they'd never been to a historically black college. they were from springfield, illinois, my dad, and champaign, illinois, my mom. it was a totally different experience for them. david: so, let me ask you how you got out of florida, because you were born there, you were raised there, but where did you go to college? dr. hayden: well, there was a little byway there. my dad got bitten by the jazz bug. and he, we moved to new york city so he could pursue that.

parents got divorced, because my mom did not get bitten by that bug. so, then we returned to their home states of illinois. so i ended up going to high school and then college in chicago. david: and he went to college ultimately where? dr. hayden: roosevelt university and university of chicago. david: you got a phd in library sciences at the university of chicago. dr. hayden: yes. david: so, are there many library schools anymore? the one at the university of chicago no longer exists, but are there still a lot of library schools around the united states? dr. hayden: there are about 56 library schools, but now they are mainly called information science schools, schools of information science or information management. the university of chicago school closed and the columbia university closed because their programs were deemed a little too academic. david: so, after you got your phd from the university of chicago in library sciences, what did you do? dr. hayden: i went off to teach at the library school in the university of pittsburgh. and that school was really before its time. the dean there was toni carbo, really wanted to make sure there

was a merger with information science, computer science. she brought in technology companies. and it was really an innovative library school. david: did you go back to chicago from there? dr. hayden: i went back. and i went back because one of my students i had sent off with all this "knowledge is power" and go and work in these libraries and help people and everything, he came back and said, i'm going to get a phd and i want to teach. i said, you were doing so well at this big urban library. he said, you told me to bring my ideas up, and i saw the director of the library and i went up to him and i was trying to tell him some of the things i was interested in, and he blew me off. and i thought, ok.

this is not it. so, i'm coming back to academia. david: what did you do? you joined the chicago -- dr. hayden: the chicago public library. david: and you rose up to be the? dr. hayden: the chief librarian. i went back to chicago. i also did a stint at the museum of science and industry. and that was really helpful, because i worked more with the curators, but also opening up a public library in adavid: so whn chicago, you met two people. did they borrow a lot of books, barack and michelle obama? did they ever have overdue fines or anything? dr. hayden: well, we could never tell, if they did. but what happened was, when i went back the person that was the administrator for the city of chicago that had in her

portfolio the public library was michelle robinson. and i got to know her because she was responsible as a deputy mayor type of position. and then she got engaged to this gentleman who had an interesting name, and i was recruited to head up the baltimore library. and so that july, i missed the wedding. david: whatever happened to him? dr. hayden: he did well. it was so interesting too, that years later i would be sitting almost like this in the oval office, being interviewed by the president of the united states because that is the person who nominates the the librarian to congress. it is that gentleman. david: so you already knew him. let's talk about baltimore. you went to my hometown of baltimore, where the library system is called the enoch pratt free library system. and you became the head librarian of the system for 22

years. and then the president of the united states has the responsibility to nominate for senate confirmation the librarian of congress. why don't members of congress nominate the librarian of congress, since it's a congress thing? dr. hayden: i believe that started with lincoln, and that it would be a position that the president would nominate, similar to a supreme court justice. and it was that type of position. so, you still have to be confirmed by the senate. and i went through that process. david: you interviewed with president obama and he said, do you want to be librarian of congress, and i guess you said you were interested? dr. hayden: i was concerned about what i could bring to the position, because i had been so involved with public libraries, public access, all of that. but i never thought of actually

being part of the library of congress, because of what the perception was, that it was mainly for scholars. and so what president obama asked me was, he started it out with telling me that he had seen the contents of abraham lincoln's pockets the night he was assassinated. he had seen the first draft of the gettysburg address that lincoln took, he said, at the library of congress. he said, i think that's because of my position. he said, what could you do with your background to open up the library of congress to everyone? and that's when i thought and said to him, i think i can do that. david: let's say 10, 20, 30 years from now, do you expect libraries like the library of congress to be more relevant, less relevant, more technologically-savvy, or about the same as now?

dr. hayden: they are going to be more technologically-savvy, but they are going to be even more relevant, because they are still trusted sources of information. ♪ if you're living with diabetes, i'll tell you the same thing i tell my patients. getting on dexcom g7 is one of the easiest ways to take better control of your diabetes and help protect yourself from the long-term health problems it can cause. this small wearable... replaces fingersticks, lowers a1c, and it's covered by medicare. not managing your diabetes really affects... your health for the future. the older you get, the more complications you're gonna see. i knew i couldn't ignore my diabetes anymore because it was causing my eyesight to go bad. before the dexcom g7, doctor's appointments were not something i looked forward to. for my patients, getting on dexcom g7 is the biggest eye opener they've ever had. when i got dexcom g7, i couldn't believe how easy it was. this small wearable sends my glucose numbers right to

my phone or my receiver. with just a glance i can see if i'm going high, low, or steady. so, i can quickly get my glucose under control and better protect myself from complications. my a1c is down to 5.8. call now to get started on the most accurate and most recommended cgm brand! you'll also get a free discussion guide for your next doctor's visit. dexcom g7 has changed my life for the better. now, i'm a superstar. my a1c is 5.7. my a1c has never been lower. i go swimming, i ride my exercise bike, and i play with my grandkids. i finally have my life back. my wife used to worry about me having diabetes before my dexcom g7. but now, she doesn't worry as much, because she knows. it gives me a lot of peace of mind. i want him to be around forever. ♪♪ no other cgm system is more affordable

for medicare patients. don't miss out you may be entitled to this valuable benefit. call the number on your screen now to talk to a real person. david: so, let me ask you about the library itself, today. how many employees do you have? dr. hayden: roughly 3500. they are not all librarians. those are the people that -- you have copyright lawyers, all types of people that work at the library of congress. david: for he often when i have seen library of congress employees, i ask how long they've been here, and they typically say, 35 years, and i say, that's a long time. they say, no, somebody here is 40 years, 45 years. why do people stay so long at the library of congress? dr. hayden: they love it. one of the joys. it is like being at a university.

they are faculty members and subject experts in whatever subject you have. the library of congress collects in 470 languages. half of the collection is in languages other than english. and so, the middle eastern division, you are going to have experts who are from the region and speak. david: today you have 3500 employees. where do you get your money from? library fines, i assume, are not that big a part of your business? dr. hayden: this is where the accessibility for everyone comes into play. because 85% to 90% of the library's operating budget is from an appropriation from congress. and that is taxpayer money. and so, that's another reason why we are really just devoted to making sure people know this is their library, too. david: so, is there a joint committee on the library? dr. hayden: the library budget goes through the appropriations

committees on both sides, senate and house, and then there are policy committees that help with the direction of the library itself. though, budgeting gives you direction as well. david: what do you do when you are not being a librarian of congress? dr. hayden: i always love to read. and so, when i get some spare time i can look at old "new yorkers," and you know how they pile up. i love mysteries and biographies. david: you don't go to any bookstores because you don't need to? dr. hayden: i do, i go to the ivy bookstore in baltimore. it's funny, because now people are watching what i am buying. so, you have to be careful. david: as we talk, this weekend is the national book festival weekend. this has been going on for about 20-plus years or so. what actually happens at the national book festival? dr. hayden: oh, and it is a festival.

it is a one-day event with over 90 authors now. it was started by first lady laura bush, when my predecessor, when she came to washington she had started the texas book festival. that is still one of the largest book festivals in the country. they started it about 24 years ago, and when you think about what we have for young people and what we do for young people, there is an entire section that is going to feature interactive activities and authors for young people. famous authors that we all know. doris kearns goodwin, james mcbride, james patterson will be there. you will be there. and it is just heartening when we talked about illiteracy, and ucl of these booklovers that are gathered, thousands and thousands of people. david: do presidents of the united states ever come up and borrow a book, or they are too busy to do that? they don't call you and say, do

you have this book, or something like that? dr. hayden: we've had some good relations with the white house in terms of putting books on display for certain things. and we've been doing more of that recently. david: so, what kind of books do you like to read? nonfiction? dr. hayden: i am into mysteries. i am a big mystery fan. because you feel some sense of satisfaction with it. someone usually gets killed, nobody cares, but then it is solved. so, that's very reassuring. david: so, let's talk about the library of congress in the future. let's say 10, 20, 30 years from now, do you expect libraries like the library of congress to be more relevant, less relevant, more technologically-savvy, or about the same as now? dr. hayden: they are going to be more technologically-savvy, and we are seeing it now, even though there are some challenges in terms of what public libraries and school libraries offer, they are going to be even

more relevant, because they are still trusted sources of information. and in the world of misinformation, who can you trust, what are those trusted sources? libraries are still going to be places people look to. ♪

let's go boys. the way that i approach work, post fatherhood, has really been trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families, like my own. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. ♪ ♪

humans