>> from the heart of our innovation, money and power collide in silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: live from new york, i'm caroline hyde. >> i'm mike sheppard in san francisco. caroline: special coverage of the chinese ai competitor deepseek and its impact on tech

names in the broader markets at large. the market having its worst day in more than a month as we question the need for compute power to get us evermore efficient evermore specific generative ai. we are down 2.6%, this is when we question nvidia. the compute power, the necessity for ever more efficient chips and the cost of them. nvidia with its worst rout in history in terms of market capitalization everyone in the market we have never seen a must have never seen a mostafa trillion dollars wiped out through one single name. this is global. asml down was 6% but hong kong stocks do well as they start to cai as a real champion for china. let's talk about it with mandeep singh who joins us for more. how does this change the game for llm's in the u.s., for chip equipment in the u.s.. mandeep: we look at it from a stack perspective and regenerative ai so far all the value was captured by the

chipmakers, the llm companies like openai and the software guys were really missing out because everyone was like the margins will be compressed, they've to pay more for chips, pay for this and guess what, if the price can come down in what deepseek has shown us is the price per token, price per query can come down drastically. then suddenly the power goes back to the software guys because now they can incorporate ai in everything they want. in an app, in their website. whatever functionality they had they can add a play or of ai without having to pay too much. and so i think this really is a big development and every cloud company whether it's alphabet or microsoft, they will be looking to leverage their computer efficiently but they will benefit from the infrastructure side. but also on the application side

which is why i think meta has their capex on friday. mike: how does this undercut nvidia in particular for its argument for advances like the blackwell product that is pushing out now and what may come after it. is it becoming harder for jensen huang to sell that to microsoft and its other customers all of a sudden. mandeep: the last three months we were debating about the scaling laws and we were talking about 100 k gp use and possibly one million gp use in a cluster. i think this puts into question how much you need for training -- training -- training your llm. all of these companies have to train their algorithms. so you need compute capacity, but at the same time nvidia was accruing all the benefits in terms of pricing because of the advances in their chips, so if you can do more with the older

version of their chips and you don't need a cluster of one million gp use connected together, then probably you can do more in terms of the infrastructure. and i think that's what a lot of people are trying to figure out. >> thank you. let's bring in tony wong. portfolio manager of the science and technology fund at t. rowe price and an nvidia shareholder for more on this. we have a big week and month of earnings coming up. how has this change the way you are looking at companies as they prepared to deliver the results. >> i think it's a great question and if you look at the trend to technology generally when things become more efficient, it increases demand and so it wasn't that long ago if you months that we were debating the cost was too great to deliver and so where the roi. i feel like this is a tad

expansionary for the market long term. i think obviously hiding behind with the market talking about today and that's a very valid concern. the paradox essentially is they become more efficient, consumption goes up, demand goes up. i think that's necessary and healthy. i do think there's a little bit of sensational reporting perhaps on twitter and just in terms of how deepseek only took $6 million for their training. it's a nice marketing number rate but that's r&d costs, the model is a lot smaller than chatgpt and its only textbased so there's a lot of reasons to say it's not exactly a kind of direct comparison and they do have a lot of great breakthroughs in the efficiency of the model obviously. i think it is due for the industry, the community and

further pursue ai in a bigger way i think. caroline: let's just reconfirm to our audience what it is that deepseek has done because bloomberg intelligence, bloomberg news has been reporting for months, bloomberg intelligence ranked it as the seventh most powerful llm all the way back in june of last year but now it gives us the fact its latest r1 model isn't sophisticated many would say on the internet and other experts out there. isn't as sophisticated as that of anthropic's latest model or openai's latest model. they have done at fraction of the cost. as well as reported to have cost we haven't been able to delve into the veracity of that number. when it comes to the rush to the bottom, evermore cheap applications the generative ai. do we therefore see microsoft have to cut its prices.

do we see revenue profitability of these providers, in. >> i think that's a good question. i would say we don't know why openai and anthropic will release next. in those times there are so many innovations market is moving very quickly. they have something that's really exciting to be launched. so that's number one. number two, a lot of times this is a fast volume or aggressive model that has a ceiling in terms of what it can do. openai with their model and i think there's a lot of innovation that will happen. at the end of the day there's ecosystem building in the enterprise, that also factor into it. i think the market for llm's can be more diverse than people are giving credit for. caroline: is this a buying opportunity to stack up on nvidia even more?

tony: long term you think of the technology trends. i don't think just because there's one model this more efficient that people will say we will just stop here. at the end of the day everyone's racing towards agi and looking to continue to invest. i think you saw mark zuckerberg even though he knew about deepseek since it was released over christmas, you saw he actually increased capex spend. it's not just a model it's also the compute as well and so i think as there is more demand it's actually good for filling up the compute capacity that they are building. mike: you talked about mark and his announcement last week on cap x, is there any thought to the way these companies should revisit those spending plans, are they going to big. is it too big and maybe not

efficient enough? tony: naturally absolutely. everone on the engineering teams assaying this open-source model let's take it apart and figure out how we can incorporate that. i think that actually increases the number of use cases and people saying i wasn't able to afford perhaps the latest equipment because of the cost of doing so and so i do think that it's absently natural but i don't think companies will say let's just stop here. because there are so many potential benefits, the kind of goal at the end of the day is pretty grand. >> i wanted to follow with a question about the potential policy responses from washington. given the hawkish mood towards china with the new administration do you see any risk of a response that would pose a challenge to the companies that you own and are

taking a look at? >> i think definitely the geopolitical aspects of what's going on this week, president trump announced the stargate project so this was perhaps deepseek was a response to that and the question is 10 they build ai more cheaply in an open way versus a bunch of ai infrastructure and i think my view is you need both and each country will continue to race towards the ai capabilities and i think there could be some expert restrictions more along the way but it does show that perhaps restricting isn't particularly helpful because then you will -- more innovation is born out of scarcity and we are seeing a lot of innovation to be had. competition is good and at the

end of the day you want an open market. >> who will win from your portfolio? from that innovation or potentially from that shift from hardware more to the software side. >> it's a really exciting time. the feeling that the applet improves and anybody that has a realistic customer base and large apps that they have a lot of data from, i do like the ai infrastructure still. i think there is still steady kind of consistent demand their in the history of technology saying people take that innovation, that improve performance and put it to good use for developing the next years technologies. caroline: tony, one of the most giving and nvidia shareholders we so appreciated coming up. will be joined by the former white house chief information officer to discuss deepseek's

cybersecurity implications and more but there are other earnings upon us. we will bring you what at&t is currently doing on the market we are higher in that particular stock, fourth-quarter results came in better than expected driven by seasonal promotions for at&t and bundled product offerings. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

♪♪ you go to sandals

to feel the sunshine... ♪♪ from everyone you meet. ♪♪ >> there is no question that there's a potential game changer. >> it's a game changer for the mag seven stocks. >> it's such a large weight in the market and of tech is not ok the entire market goes. >> we are all tied to the seven

stocks >> >> and nvidia. it looks at the story is china is not as far back as people thought. they are much closer. >> china looks like a viable competitor but might catch the ire of the trump administration. >> this has got to be a core concern of not just the trump administration but all the tacky universe that has moved into the west wing. >> the u.s. china trade wars and the restrictions on chips and things like that can get even more heated which will be more volatility in the market. mike: that was what some of bloomberg television guests had to say about the deepseek impact earlier today. this as nvidia hits session lows. deep seek reminds us technology remains at the heart of pretensions between the u.s. and china with disputes and for more on that we are joined by teresa payton, the ceo and former white house chief information officer

during the george w. bush administration. thank you for joining us. obviously this is going to cause a significant impact in washington. how do you expect policymakers there who have taken a hawkish approach towards china will respond. >> this tech route and massive market selloff is a wake-up call. it is for me and it underscores the urgent need for robust policies. we have got to safeguard the united states leadership in ai. i certainly do not want china setting the gold standard for the rest of the world for privacy safety security resilience and ethics around ai. i believe this is why you saw some of the technology advisors, elon musk included and president trump last week speaking very boldly about ai and the united states leadership position that is necessary. we did not even have a full week

before the trump administration passed an executive order on ai so this is very serious. mike: they said ai is a pre-already across washington including from the white house it self and yet previous measures including export controls by the biden administration do not appear to of worked. so what is the formula to achieve what donald trump has said was a policy goal that is u.s. leadership in ai. >> you are right about this, this sort of open-source method in which deepseek was released. it's now the top downloaded free app at the apple store, definitely got around sort of the different protocols that were put in place by the u.s. government over the last couple of years. and so it shows that although regulatory frameworks are incredibly helpful to set the right standard on the right tone, but sometimes regulatory frameworks get in the way of innovation. so we will have to figure out

how do we go back to the drawing board and look at how we engineer ai in the united states today and ask ourselves what can we be doing differently and it's a race right now, it's a long race right now. we kind of lost one of the heats. there's time to make up the difference. >> we bring you the latest terms of breaking news. deep seek says this malicious attack. if you try to download it you can. it currently seems to be off-line in many ways. how do you think this will be able to be responded to? is it right that we cannot access it in the united states? theresa: this is a real challenge. this is late breaking news that they were having some resiliency recoverability issues ostensibly because there were such a heavy

volume and traffic and interest. but if they are under some type of cyberattack i think that should give pause to everybody who is thinking about testing out the app perhaps on company data, perhaps using your own personal data. this is an untested app. i would caution people not to put too much proprietary company information into it until there has been an opportunity to do something called ethical hacking or red team pen testing and learn about how is your data treated, where is it stored, out of the algorithms work. it is open-source but things still need to be put through their paces. >> this comes at a time when an app that everyone in the u.s. from a bipartisan perspective for national security threat. doesn't get banned for u.s. users. we see this ongoing drive in ai. but perhaps put away from some

of those commitments when it comes to ethics and safety. is that something you're reading between the lines right now? theresa: i am watching this closely. my interest is peaked here for starters, where is sify us on this. we have been upset about tiktok, do a lot of architecture changes with oracle, the united states still seeing there some concerns there. where did they stand on this particular app? how do they feel for both u.s. citizen data and u.s. corporation data, the origin story is china. it is headquartered in china and so again a lot of questions remain are we going to allow this app to be downloaded in the united states and is it allowed to be downloaded just because they haven't had the time to analyze it and give a ruling on it. mike: teresa payton, a former

cio in the bush white house, thank you for joining us. much more on deepseek and the innovation in its models. caroline: a quick check on some of the ripple effect from the announcement of deepseek and whether it is as cheap to have made its latest r1 model. seeing that it session lows, haven't seen a market rally like this were single stock name a most half $1 trillion the market capitalization. it spills over to the ai infrastructure play. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

mike: let's bring in bloomberg's jackie to discuss the impact of deepseek on openai and stargate.

we worked on the coverage of the stargate project last week at the white house. this is not the kind of moment that president donald trump and his administration wanted to start this week so soon after that big announcement. where you go from here. jackie: from here we have to assess how powerful is deepseek, what makes these models so threatening to the ones we are building here in the united states, one of the things we can look to is the fact that this r1 model that is really making a splash, their open weight what makes this so surprising is the fact that many open weight models of actually been lagging there close source appears like openai, like anthropic. and so with the united states government really now has to assess is what are we missing here, how are they able to get past these export controls and

it might not even need this. these models really efficiently run on far more computational in nature from openai. this kind of turns the whole premise that ships were really going to be the key here to getting ahead in the ai race, this really kind of flips that. >> necessities the mother of all invention. they had to do it. they had lack of access to the most of his to chips from nvidia and we understand from bloomberg intelligence this is about a mixture of experts architecture. this is how they lower the cost, how they bring computational power but it's a different form of running the models but others have been bringing it on. have you been telling -- can you tell us about how they've been managing to compete and win out when it comes to mass challenges and reasoning versus the latest out of claude or indeed openai. >> it is no surprise that compositional framework really

has gone a long way. the start of that has its roots in a quantitative hedge fund so this is really their bread-and-butter. when we look at what the numbers show, the performance across several benchmarks, the ones that stand out are in math and coding. these are the ones when you think about how wide you sit is in the coding community the fact that it outperformed claude and openai on some benchmarks, deepseek really is a player that is contending with these incumbents. past that we -- you are right, there is a difference when it comes to is this general purpose, how big are these parameters. the latest model has 671 billion parameters compared to openai. it has models that are small of can handle customization for specific things. it could also give you how it is coming to that similar to openai's feature.

caroline: the detail on the technology. much more on deepseek and the broader tech selloff. shares across 15% fall in nvidia. session lows off half a trillion dollars but this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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caroline: welcome back to bloomberg technology. mike: -- caroline: we must get to these markets. the deepseek impact royals across-the-board. a clear present concern about the cheap offering from china. generative ai able to compare with that of openai. with just $6 million spent on the latest model nasdaq 100 off by 3%, the worst day in at least a month. bitcoin falling down. let's see what drags down the nasdaq 100 for the benchmark

crumbles in nvidia loses 16% more than half $1 trillion roped off in terms of market cap. that is a record in terms of the suffering of a single name. apple on the higher side, earnings will come thick and fast. the 30th is when apple comes. the most downloaded app on the app store right now is deepseek which is currently suffering -- saying they are suffering an attack. on the ripple effects. did you see this coming? deepseek has been written about by your colleagues in china. the states one of the most powerful llm and indeed singled out how cost-efficient it is. should it have such an impact on the market capitalizations of u.s. companies? >> i have been surprised about the massive impact it's happening. but at this point i think they're questioning how they can run the model of such a cheap price of the u.s. company needs such infrastructure.

that's the big question mark today. it is surprising great if you look at some of the software names they are responding positively to that. it means the ai adoption rate could be accelerated. a lot is going on, a lot to digest today. mike: demand for ai products, will this be more of a blip than anything else? mandeep: that was eventually going to happen anyway. the question is are we at that faster pace today. you look at microsoft's office copilot product. $30 per user per month. they came up with some consumption related stuff as well but they operate that product interview has not been at that same rate as it should have been if it was only teams addition for five dollars a month or seven dollars a month. it does have an impact on the adoption rate, adobe selling its service now.

when you look at all these companies spending a lot of money to embed these features and if they can do it cheaply it means faster adoption. in the long run. mike: thank you. let's bring in jordan from mizuho america. thank you for joining us. we have to ask, is this the beginning of the end of the great ai trade or maybe not so much? >> it is the beginning of probably a consolidation phase and so profit-taking for sure. but i don't think it is the beginning of the end of the ai trade i just think we are up a lot. after two massive years of outperformance in both tech and these ai winners, and it is really only one month into the year, so i think the size and scale of the pullback is who wants to be a hero if your institutional money manager hedge fund and buy the dip on

the first day. catch the proverbial falling knife so to speak. people will wait and hear from these companies. that is the positive is that we are going into the meat of earnings season burial get microsoft and meta and apple and eventually others to talk about what they are seeing and what their capex plans are. i thing we will know more in the coming weeks but for now i think it is probably a healthy and needed consolidation phase. caroline: i healthy consolidation phase that see 16% wiped off of nvidia. the lowest it's trading at since october of last year. we don't get those earnings until february the 26th. how many calls have you had about nvidia and what do you think it means for the popularity of its varying -- expensive chips. >> people are concerned obviously because it's probably the most owned stock in the market. i think you have a lot of people that do not fully know what they

own and are just panicking and selling. i think the real institutional money managers we are not seeing a wave of selling across her equity desk at mizuho. we are seeing some profit-taking, some investors rotate some money out of all of these tech names. that is to be expected. but, i am not hearing from people that it is game over for nvidia or broadcom, macron or the big cloud hyper scalars. and if anything i think people are looking at that price point that deepseek throughout of 6 million and questioning if that is real. i think the real money managers who are here for the long term i think more months not days will wait and hear from the companies before they do anything. caroline: you heard what tony was saying at the start. we called you up immediately when we got this is a market selloff news because we saw your note.

a great title and the fact that we've got a freak out happening. deepseek creates a deep freak across tech. i'm interested about the calls you are fielding and as to whether or not you are starting to see a question buying into chinese names. is that something that people want to see is a winner. jordan: that is a great question. i am not seeing people call me and say these are the list of chinese names that i want to own. i think this will bring up a discussion point that is probably needed and was overlooked as we can all own the same trade. if everyone owns the same names and then you get news like this which questions the longevity of this sustainability of this thesis, people just rush to sell and it is painful. escalator up, elevator down. people are getting a healthy wake-up call saying i have to have a diversified portfolio. the other thing i am encouraged by is look at a lot of the green

on your screen as it relates to software and some of these other larger cap tech names. they are not all getting sold indiscriminately. i think people that you had on your show say this could only increase the adoption over time and make people want to deploy and invest more to catch up with china or deploy some of these measures to build out their own models paid i think it is too early to know. >> we will hear a lot from companies over the next several days and coming weeks about cap x. does this news unravel the argument that manhattan project likes spending is needed to maintain an edge in ai? jordan: yes and no. i think it raises a lot of questions that were already there so most of the meetings i had with investors the question comes up is are they going to ever see a return on these tens of billions of capex spending

with their deploying. will it ever monetize, what will the returns be or is this just throwing money down a hole. i think that is going to be an ongoing question and until we see these companies for example, facebook or meta and microsoft this week talk about what they are seeing in terms of monetizing ai there will be some questions and doubts. but again i do not think this will create cutting cap x, we are scaling back because they are all in an arms race with one another. china's deepseek initiative is knocking to change that. it's why microsoft taught 80 billion. zuckerberg talked 60 to 65 billion. the stargate of 100 to 500 billion. i don't think one new chinese app that makes some aggressive audacious claims is going to all of a sudden create this pullback effect. if they see real savings and can do this faster they might do that but that will take time and

we have not seen that yet. caroline: so glad to have -- so good to have your voice on the show. much more on the china ai startup breakthrough model what it means for the united states in terms of supply chain. ken buck joins us next. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

caroline: you are looking at a live shot of the principal room. check out the bloomberg technology podcast on the terminal as well as online. this is bloomberg. mike: as deepseek's ai potential jolts the tech sector, what does this mean for geopolitics in president trump's agenda for ai dominance? joining us to discuss this is former congressman from colorado's fourth district ken buck.

we have to ask you what it comes to ai, is deepseek's breakthrough a sputnik moment for washington. >> i think time will tell on that. i am not sure. i think the critical factor is that america develops its own chip manufacturing here. we don't rely on taiwan semiconductor, we don't rely on others in this world marketplace. we certainly could be behind. we recognized a few years ago that we needed to incentivize chip manufacturing in the u.s.. we passed the chips act in congress. it has been a failure. throwing a lot of money at a lot of different companies has not worked. i think donald trump's policies involving you know, combination of tax incentives and perhaps tariffs will be more effective in trying to raise america's productivity in this area. mike: you brought up the chips

act and your misgivings and concerns there. how should the president adjust the implementation the doling out of some of the money that still remains in a way that could meet the challenge that companies are posing from abroad. >> one of the biggest benefactors of the chips act has been taiwan semiconductor and that is a mistake. they are not producing chips in the u.s.. they will plan to produce them in the future. we don't know if these will be the high end chips. we don't know if taiwan semiconductor will actually mesh with the workforce here in the u.s.. so what we have to do what president trump i'm sure his survive -- advisers are telling him now is find those companies in the u.s. that can produce the high-end chips that taiwan semiconductor's monopoly on. look into the monopoly.

we have antitrust laws that prohibit the company from having a 95% market share like the taiwan semiconductor does. but find the u.s. -- find the u.s. companies and make sure we have the tax structure in place and other incentives to make high-end chips in the u.s.. this issue of deepseek, we don't know if someone violated our export controls to china or not. caroline: i'm looking at nvidia down, 17%. massive wipeout of market capitalization about $600 billion. to that point, did perhaps china circumvent some limitations on nvidia's exports? is that something you are thinking through rather than this was innovation because they could not get their hands on the latest and greatest. >> it would not be the first time china stole technology from the u.s. or other countries and then with their labor market and with their other production

advantages got ahead of the curve on us. so i think that is certainly one of the issues we have to look at is whether they did violate export controls or not, but more importantly what do we do in this country. the cat is out of the bag paid what do we do in this country to make sure and western europe frankly to make sure that we stay ahead on the ai rates -- i -- ai race. caroline: 500 billion dollars unveiled by potential oracle openai and softbank into the future for ai infrastructure in the united states. the creation of more $3 trillion companies but ultimately that money perhaps has slowed innovation in the u.s.. >> i think it is a big concern. i don't think we just throw money at an issue. we have to be precise in how in our strategy and how we develop ai. we all recognize ai has these

tremendous potential wonderful benefits, but when you are talking about a totalitarian country like china, you also have to think about what that country can do with ai advances that will put us at risk and our allies at risk. caroline: former congressman 10 buck, thank you for joining the show today. coming up, so five's fourth-quarter revenues topped estimates. the company ceo joining us next. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

caroline: sofi shares slumping today. having its worst day since march of last year. the fintech lender publishing a forecast that seems to be below where the market wants to see. abroad tech route but here to discuss the earnings, sofi ceo. i ask you about the forecasted revenue adjusted 24% fourth-quarter but you're pushing us forward in a forecast that isn't as high as the market wanted, why? anthony: two things. 2024 we took a pretty conservative approach to the year in terms of our growth and our profitability.

we really wanted to make sure we were able to drive strong profitability in 24 to achieve gap profitability to make sure we reinforced our balance sheet and capital cushion. part of 2024 we committed to a balanced approach to growth through profitability or we would reinvest $.70 of every revenue dollar. we took our revenue forecast for 25 up, we were in the best position we have been since i've been here in the last seven years. calling for 25% revenue growth, strong margins at 26%. we want to invest in the opportunity. we took revenue guidance up. that will require more investment. we have the guidance for 20 to three and 2026.

we could drive but we see massive growth in the ability product growth at more than 30% is what we are calling for through 2026. >> the investment of just described, what portion of it will you be putting towards artificial intelligence and people are watching how companies are deploying it. do you see for instance an agent driven service at sophia at some point? anthony: the vast majority of our investment into 25 and 26 will be brand awareness, becoming a trusted household brand name. we have great products, the reason we are driving such a strong product and member growth is they are differentiated and we make people aware of that.

when they use the products we not just using the first one. they can trust to use the second and third one. product growth was from our existing members, about 40% of our members take out a second product within 30 days. we will continue to invest in differentiating products. a great product, you can do person-to-person payments, today early paycheck. investing in that, investing in our best product to expand the selection and other product categories. caroline: you want to be able to offer crypto again which is something the administration talked about. on the day when we see such volatility that engulfs crypto. is that a product placement you are looking to get to again? anthony: we would absolutely not just what we used to provide, to

safely and securely trade bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, that we would also go to other areas like clearing in addition to -- that will all be done by the regulators which we think should be coming over the next 24 months and we will be ready when it does. caroline: ultimately are you feeling more risk on in this environment. the new administration. it doesn't feel like a risk on day-to-day? anthony: we are leaning into 2025. 2024 was a record-breaking year. record revenue, profits and returns. could not be happier with the year we had paid the most product that's been at the company since i've been here. i think 2025 will be even better. the outlook is the best environment we've operated in in the last seven years. business is bigger and stronger than it's ever been. more resources to go after the opportunities paid we like the macro backdrop. it's a very different outlook

than 2024. we are being more aggressive and -- aggressive in innovation and driving strong returns. mike: back to the regulatory side of things, what is the one hurdle you would like to see the new administration take on? anthony: the biggest question is will bank holding companies -- what will be permissible with cryptocurrency. that is important. the interest rate cycle has pretty good visibility and transparency to that. i think the economy has really strong economic indicators. how much can we invest in these different asset classes that are members want to reinforce the ability to not just borrow better and save better but to invest better. investing is critical to reaching their long-term financial goals. we want to be there for everyone of the major financial decisions are members make in their lives. the key is spending less than

the rest. the more opportunity we can give our customers to invest pretty caroline: great to have you on. thank you so much pride let's return to the story of the day which is deepseek. generative ai being powered in china for much smaller amounts of money managing to circumvent perhaps limitations on compute power. we see a whopping 16% market cap erosion on nvidia but we thought we would be talking about earnings, apple in the green on the 30th. mike: this is rewriting the narrative for earnings later this week and through the rest of this month. there was also a wildcard and that is the new president in washington and how he will react. we still have not heard from him, he does not look at the market as a benchmark for u.s. success. caroline: people continue to try

to download deepseek, currently unavailable. saying they are being afflicted by some sort of attack. that does it for this additional bloomberg technology. as well as apple, spotify and i heart. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ - hr? - yeah. - it? - yeah. - r&d? - yup. omg? uh... oh, i see. uh... yeah. that's the department i work in. alright, enough of that.

>> welcome to "bloomberg etf iq." i'm scarlet fu. >> and i'm katie greifeld. and scarlet fu, did you know what deepseek was before this morning? >> i'm learning and we're all getting a crash course on it. its new models have investors testing