david: this is my kitchen table, and it's also my filing system. over much of the past three decades, i've been an investor. [applause] the highest calling of mankind, i've often thought, was private equity. [laughter] and then i started interviewing. i watched your interviews, so i

know how to do some interviewing. [laughter] i've learned from doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. jeff: i asked him how much he wanted. he said 250. i said, fine. i didn't negotiate with him, and i did no due diligence. david: i have something i would like to sell. [laughter] and how they stay there. you don't feel inadequate now, because being only the second wealthiest man in the world, is that right? [laughter] david: there is a great deal of excitement in washington these days but perhaps the greatest is excitement is the arrival of two pandas from china. i had the chance to sit down with brandie smith, who oversees the national zoo the panda program to talk about the pandas. we are in the panda house because pandas have returned to the national zoo. why are pandas so popular? 80% of the people who come to the national zoo want to see the pandas. why are they that popular?

brandie: first of all, they are cute. they are adorable. people want to see them. the thing i love about pandas is the way they are built. we are genetically designed to love pandas. they have round features, cute voices. when they see a baby, it is the same thing when we see a panda. we are designed to think they are adorable. they are rare. it is a matter of having the opportunity to see them. you take the opportunity when you can. pandas are a story of joy, hope, happiness and success. david: when did you get the new pandas? brandie: these pandas came in october of 2024, just a few months ago. david: how old are they? brandie: they are both three months old. they are part of a breeding program helping to save the species. we wanted to get the most

genetically valuable animals. we narrowed it down to a few pairs. we sent a veterinarian to china to check the records of the different animals and we asked them to select the cutest pair. david: when richard nixon went to china in the early 1970's, as a gift, he said here are two pandas and they came to the national zoo. at the time they were the only pandas in the u.s. brandie: that was really the start of the giant panda conference -- conservation program. david: they were gifts to the country. china began a program of lending pandas or renting pandas to zoos around the world. i read there were 27 zoos around the world that have pandas. brandie: we received the first pandas. they were estate gift. there was a loan program to other zoos. there is a conservation fee zoos

paid to the panda breeding centers in china. the pandas we have now are part of that program. david: was it easy to get the pandas to come back to washington, d.c.? did the chinese say we have some extra pandas and we do not know what to do with them? brandie: it was more difficult on that. over the course of the year we had conversations with our colleagues in china and we were able to get pandas here quickly. it is a testament to the relationship we have built over decades, to the conservation success we have had with our pandas and panda program. there were a lot of conversations but we always knew in the end we did want pandas at the national zoo. david: how big is the national zoo? brandie: we have two facilities. the zoo and washington, d.c. is 175 acres. we have a biology institute that is 3200 acres in front royal,

virginia. david: when i grew up in baltimore -- we had a zoo that still exists -- the animals were in big occasions. my understanding is people in charge of zoos let animals have more freedom and space than they used to. what about the argument that some people say it is not nice to have zoos at all, let the animals stay in the wild. how do you respond to that? brandie: i love that question because it is asked to make people who care deeply about animals. i will answer into parts and one is the emotional part about animals and zoos. i think about people who have pets. most of them are not trained to care for them. they bring them to their house, they have them in their apartment, go for a walk every so often. they know those animals are cared for. the animals are happy and they know the love them and they are love to back. imagine that, except imagine that you have experts --

hundreds of experts -- who are trained in the care of animals. people who spent their entire lives curing with these animals with the best nutrition, medicine, habitats that are scientifically designed to meet their behavioral and scientific needs. animals in zoos. we know they are happy and they are love to back. david: other than pandas, what are the biggest attraction at the national zoo? brandie: people love the big animals -- pandas, elephants, lions, tigers, cheetahs. the most searched animal on our website are snakes. i do not know if people are searching them because they want to see them or they are afraid to see them. david: let's go back and talk about the pandas because they are so popular and you get a lot of visitors because of that.

where do pandas come from? why is it only one place? 200 countries in the world, why does only one country have pandas? brandie: that is the area. they are indigenous to the cool mountain forests in china. that is the habitat that sustains them the best. if pandas do not eat bamboo they will get sick. they are heavily dependent on having the appropriate habitat. david: pandas, a couple million years old, we think, they used to have a wheat diet, they were carnivores but than 500,000 years ago they became herbivores. i do not know if that is easy to do with your stomach. because they only eat vegetables, do they have enough nutrition to get through the day? brandie: pandas are carnivores and they are bears -- true bears. they have evolved to take advantage of a more plentiful

resource. they do not need to chase down their food, it pretty much grows up around them when i sit there. they have grown special adaptations to consume bamboo as quickly as possible. what it lacks in quality they make up for in quantity. the pandas at the national zoo, we feed each panda 100 pounds of freshly cut bamboo every day. david: if you eat 100 pounds of food every day, doesn't that take a lot of energy and that means they sleep a lot? brandie: they are digesting. i feel like a panda's life is eating, sleeping and playing. i feel like we love pandas because they are living our best lives. it is so fun to watch them because you will see a panda mowing through bamboo leaves and they will stop for a second. it is like they are taking a mini nap to digest. david: you grow your own bamboo,

you do not bring it in from china. brandie: we actually grow -- we have the facility in virginia, 3200 acres, we do a lot of our research there. a lot of our labs are there. we grow all of our own hay, alfalfa and bamboo. david: the panda bear -- we have five fingers -- a panda bear seems to have a sixth finger to help them pick up the bamboo. is that an evolutionary trick? brandie: it is not a thumb, it is a modified wrist bone. it is a flexible wrist bone that functions almost like a thumb as they hold onto bamboo. bamboo is circular. it looks like they are holding on. instead of investing in being a better predator in chasing down meat, the invested in being the best bamboo leader you can imagine. david: there is a problem pandas

have, there are so few of them. pandas were thought to be an endangered species, now they are: vulnerable. . how many pandas are there in the world? brandie: this is incredible. david: -- that is a small number of pandas. brandie: what we are also doing -- this is what i love about the program. people see the pandas, it is cute, it is great, but when they contribute, they buy a stuffed panda, they are contributing to our efforts. not only are we learning more about giant pandas but we are saving their habitat in the wild. when this started, there were

about 10 small, little reserves where pandas could live. there are panda reserves in china three times the size of yellowstone. because of this program, there are more pandas on the planet, more quality panda habitat in the wild and pandas have gone from being in danger to vulnerable. david: one problem pandas have is their ability to reproduce is the most limited or most challenging in the entire animal world. i think the female panda can only reproduce a short period of time, only one day a year so the male has to show up at the right time. how does that work? brandie: the female has a narrow window where she is reproductively viable but the males go through something called rut, which is much longer. months that can overlap multiple females, the males are looking for a mate.

they are sent to marketing, covering a large territory. they are looking for a mate and advertising to females they would be a great father to their cubs. david: many vips i assume call you up and say i would like to bring my grandchildren, children, go myself to see pandas. do you get a lot of that? brandie: the thing i love the most is we are part of the smithsonian so everyone, no matter how vip you are, you can come here and see giant pandas for free. ♪

david: let me ask you how one becomes the head of the national zoo? let's talk about your background. where did you grow up? brandie: indiana, pennsylvania. it is in western pennsylvania, small town. i had a rural delivery address and most of my relatives of were

coal miners. david: did you play with stuffed animals are pandas? brandie: stuffed animals. my neighbors had cows so i would go over and feed the cows. david: you told your parents you wanted to be a national zoo director? how did you let your parents know? are you trained as a zoologist? brandie: i was a young girl interested in science in the middle of nowhere in pennsylvania and i thought if you wanted to be a scientist, that meant you were a doctor and that was my only career path. my undergraduate degree is in biology. i thought about it and i said this is not what i want to do. i want to work with animals. i was about to start an internship with an ophthalmologist and i called the pittsburgh zoo and said i want to do what you do. tell me, how did you get this job?

this was back in the day. the guy said i am on my way to interview for a summer intern and i wonder interview you right now and if you do well i will hire you. i got the job. i went home and told my mother that instead of doing an internship with the doctor i would in turn as a zookeeper. david: what did she say? brandie: [laughter] we were driving at the time. she almost drove the car off the road. it was the first time i ever heard my mother swear. she said it leads to something respectable with your life. david: you got the internship and you must have liked it. what happened? brandie: i tell people i never made a smart career decision of my life. i did the internship at the zoo. zoos are unique conservation organization. there are species that exist on the planet today because of zoo

s. a black footed ferret, panamanian golden frog, the list goes on. i was fascinated with the idea of genetically managing how we manage the species genetically so they are safe. i got a masters degree in zoology that focused on genetic management. i got a job at another zoo, more internships, i got my phd and ended up here. david: you got your phd in zoology? brandie: it is a program at the university of maryland. david: did you get a job immediately after at the national zoo? brandie: i was the head of conservation in science for an organization. we set conservation goals for accredited zoos across the country. it is in office, association. i miss to being in a zoo. i miss the animals. we create magic for people on a daily basis.

david: how many zoos are there in the u.s.? brandie: 2500 licensed in the united states. there has been a program and under 250 zoos are accredited, less than 10%. those are the best of the best. david: the most famous zoo in the u.s. or the biggest is the san diego zoo, is that the biggest? brandie: it is the most well-known zoo. a lot of people are familiar with it. david: the national zoo is not the only zoo in the u.s. that has had pandas. i thought at one point there were 4 -- san diego, memphis and washington. brandie: the program started at roughly the same time. a lot of pandas were moving through in cohorts. a lot of zoos in the past two or three years, there pandas were older and returning to china. right now only the national zoo

and the san diego zoo have giant pandas. david: you are working at this association and use it i really want to be with animals directly. did you apply to the national zoo? brandie: there was an opening for a general curator. it was more a curator of mammals and of giant pandas. my story came full circle because when i got the job here -- i was in charge of the giant pandas -- my mother was so proud. david: did she come to visit the pandas? brandie: right away. [laughter] david: you were the head of the mammal program. when did you become the head of the national zoo itself? brandie: i was curator of mammals and giant pandas and after a few years i became the head of animal care. i saw all of the animals, veterinarians, nutrition records, behavior, all of the departments. i became deputy director and a few years later i became director. david: if you walk around and

see the pandas, do they recognize you? brandie: it was one of the saddest movements in my life. when i was curator of pandas, they knew who i was. they recognized me or my voice. i would call their name and they would show an interest. as director i am not with them every day i am not the bringer of food, love and happiness. david: what did you do when covid came? brandie: the concern was what happens if i get sick and i cannot take care of my animals? ♪ david: the pandas that you have now, they would begin breeding at what age? brandie: they are three years old. probably around five or six would be the earliest they have a cub. david: when they are ready to

breed, it does not always work so you have an artificial insemination program. brandie: the first thing you want to do this for the animals to breed naturally. if we have animals that are behaviorally competent and they breed naturally. if we have animals that are behaviorally competent, everything they are supposed to do and they breed naturally, that is the best thing. we are in the business of saving a species. we want to make sure the genes of these animals are represented in the population. david: as a zoologist, why do you think the evolution is they are black-and-white? what is it about black and white that they evolve that way? brandie: in the wild, there are a lot of animals that have black and white coloration patterns. we do not know exactly why but there are some different things. it could be because they had an

opportunity for individual identification. does it help them recognize individuals? is it something to do with camouflage? is it something to do with keeping and radiating heat? ♪ david: today, how many different species do you have at the national zoo? brandie: we have about 3000

animals from 300 different species. david: how many professionals do you have working there? brandie: at most locations, about 400. david: how many people come per year to the national zoo? brandie: we only had one year without giant pandas. what we noticed was our attendance dropped 20% . david: what did you do when covid came and nobody showed up? brandie: we did not have any visitors but we had to keep working. i will never forget that moment. the world was closing down because of covid and our team gathered in the lion and tiger building and we said what do we do? everyone's concern -- the concern was not i cannot go home it is what happens if i get sick and i cannot take care of my animals? we had animal care -- we had a team and b team that did not

cross -- so we always had someone there to take care of the animals. david:david: this china thing if you have to pandas they rented to you and there is a baby panda that you own the baby pendant where they do? brandie: they own all pandas but it is a good thing because the majority live in china. we are not producing pandas because we want to -- although it is wonderful. these pandas are all part of a conservation program. if a cub for to appear, it cannot breed with its parent so it returns to china so they can be a part of the breeding program. david: when a baby can see and hear, a human can pick the baby up, right? you are allowed to pick up a panda at a small size. is that right? brandie: we do wellness checks on the cubs shortly after they are born so we get hands-on

giant pandas to make sure everything is ok. david: after a panda is what size is it not possible for a zookeeper to be in the cage along with them because they are bears and could be dangerous? brandie: usually when they are about 100 pounds and that is the time -- they are not predators, they will not see you as food or a threat -- but even if they do, they have strong jaws, sharp claws so an animal could inadvertently hurt you without trying. david: if i went into a panda place right now and they now weigh 300 pounds, would that be dangerous? brandie: they are not predators so you would not look like a tasty treat if you walked in but they would think you are a toy. they could think you are something we did for them to play with. their bite force equals that of

a lion or a tiger. if they want to play with you, they have the claws, teeth and strength to do damage. david: let's talk about the panda cam. you have a camera that watches pandas 24 hours a day. brandie: people enjoy watching the panda cam because they are seeing them how we watch them. we decided to do something different because it is not just people in the u.s. but people around the world are watching the panda cam. we want to do it during the day when people -- when the pandas are awake and keepers are interacting with them. we want to do 12 hours with a giant pandas and then play those 12 hours for the people of the other side of the world. brandie: david: have you thought about selling advertising? brandie: we are smithsonian national zoo so 60% of our funding is from the federal government. we want to make sure we are open

and available to every person who wants to see giant pandas and not necessarily have ads. david: the other 40% just falls out of the sky? brandie: we are fortunate. we are talking about the panda cam. boeing sponsors are panda cams. we have incredibly generous donors who support us through philanthropy. we also generate revenue. when people come to the zoo and they come here for free because we are smithsonian, but when they buy a stuffed panda or t-shirt or eat a hamburger or hotdog here, that money goes to support the zoo and all of our conservation work. david: if somebody wants to know something about the national zoo and you have two for three sentences you can give them, what is the summary? brandie: national zoo is part of smithsonian.

we are free, open and welcome to everyone. when you come here, you will not just see the animals and have an incredible time that will stay with you and your family the rest of your lives, you are part of our conservation success. ♪

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david: this is my kitchen table and also my filing system. over much of the past three decades i've been an investor. the highest calling of mankind i often thought was private equity. then i started interviewing. i watched your interview soi