>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide in silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: live from new york, i'm caroline hyde. >> i'm jackie devol us. caroline: amazon plans to spend $100 billion this year to keep up with ai demand. we break down the earnings.

the u.s. treasury secretary says elon musk's doge effort is not altering treasury systems. we dig into the sports betting industry with the super bowl this sunday. we dig into these markets with the number one name dragging down the nasdaq, amazon. we are up by 3.6%. this is all about the earnings we get. the fact that they managed to be in line for their fiscal fourth-quarter. we see earnings overall showing 60% more than growth in operating profit. it is the forward-looking guidance that has us a little bit anxious, all about aws. let's get to it with our bloomberg intelligence analyst. they are committing to spend one hundred billion dollars on aws, necessary to capture the extent of demand for cloud right now. >> absolutely right. we are not supposed -- surprised by that.

105 billion dollars in 2025 and likely thereafter means they are spending more on ai, but that is a good thing. we want to see them spend more because there is going to be higher demand for aws services and amazon needs to make sure they are investing. jackie: what did the company say about its e-commerce business? we forget this and all the talk about the cloud. >> e-commerce had a nice quarter on the back of a strong holiday season. they did well. the fact that it grew nearly five single digits was surprising and promising one of the efforts there. for the online side, we are looking to see what happens in 2025. caroline: let's talk about whether or not commerce can support the amount of investment

that is going on. most analysts have updated their price targets even though we see the weaknesses in the shares. >> there is a lot of profitability that will come out of amazon, but also from advertising. retail is a driving force behind that advertising momentum. jackie: thanks so much. let's go over to china where tech stocks have helped, a fresh record on the back of new product launches. what did they unveil that have investors so excited? >> they are best known for their smartphones of course. they have this whole ecosystem of other devices they can tap

into. they have a lot of wearable devices. there is this overall sentiment the china market is quite strong right now. xiaomi seems to be growing quite a bit and the government is offering subsidies that could benefit them in the long run. caroline: looking at shall me autos. we are looking at a key competitor threat for tesla that saw chinese sales fall like they have been around the world. >> right, byd surpassed tesla in terms of the number of electric vehicles, a breakout in china. they didn't even announce anything that gave the shares this big bump. there is a report they will have an announcement next week and the anticipation is they will

talk about autonomous driving capabilities, they will take it a step forward, that really benefited the shares on top of this bullish sentiment. jackie: there is another boost helping lift chinese tap stocks -- tech stocks. deepseek, kind of explain that for us. >> deepseek of course course is this ai model that has come out over the past few months, but a couple of weeks ago capture the world's attention because it is an ai model competitive, they did it at just a fraction of the cost. nevertheless, it was much cheaper than what the countries in silicon valley are doing. deepseek is not publicly traded, but it is giving the sense of optimism for the rest of the chinese market. you have seen an uplift in a number of different stocks, particularly alibaba.

they have said there is better than deepseek. this comes against the backdrop that they got beat up for years. they are far off their highs. they are recovering a fair bit here. caroline: the sentiment can whipsaw and that is a lot to do with the economy over in china. for now, does this bullish sentiment feel resilient? >> it is so hard to tell beyond the numbers, beyond the specifics we see. there are analysts who believe this will not be sustainable and that china will eat the world. very bullish sentiment for some of these stocks including alibaba and tencent. the chinese government had beat

up those companies so they are getting back that ground. jackie: let's talk about trade tensions. amid all this optimism, what does this mean in the long term or even in the short term as some of these tensions estimate with president trump and beijing. >> you are hitting on one of the factors, the number of chinese companies that will get caught in the crossfire if in fact they escalate from here, we have seen the u.s. release 10% tariffs on chinese goods. the parent company of timo, the e-commerce player that has been on such a tear and shein. they will get hit by some of these changes. will they continue with those, the trump administration has gone back on those.

so far, the chinese tariffs are in place. you can imagine them negotiating a bit here so unpredictability is the key. caroline: coming up, we will hear from the u.s. treasury secretary on elon musk's doge efforts. that exclusive in a minute. first, we are watching shares of pinterest surging. revenue for the company expected to be $852 million. they managed to push across expectations in the holiday quarter for revenue and profitability. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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caroline: u.s. treasury secretary scott bessent says a lot of misinformation is floating around doge and that he personally vented the treasury employees on elon musk's government efficiency team with read access only on payment data. he sat down for an exclusive interview yesterday. >> threes -- these are treasury employees. one of whom i personally interviewed in this final-round. there is no tinkering with the system. they are on read-only. they are looking, they can make no changes. it is an operational program to suggest improvements. we made 1.3 billion payments a year. this is two employees who are working with a group of long-standing employees. >> the letter the treasury department sent earlier this

week talked about how the team currently does not have access to change the system. have they at any point had the ability to make changes? >> absolutely not. this is no different then you would have a private company. the ability to change the system sits over at the federal reserve. it doesn't even lie in this building. they can make suggestions on how to change the system, but we don't even run the system. >> if they request the ability to change the system, would you grant that? >> again, they have no ability to change the system. i have no ability to grant that change. they can make suggestions, then we would go to the federal reserve, and just like any large erp system, there would be tests, there would be this, there would be that, and then the fed would determine whether these changes are robust or not. >> as the secretary of treasury

you also oversee the irs. do you know what kind of access the team has to irs data or individual taxpayer data? >> i'm glad you asked that because the irs, the privacy issue is one of the biggest issues. over the past four years, we have seen a lot of leaks out of their -- there. the irs systems are quite poor. when i started in college in 1980, i learned the program, i think there are 12 different systems at the irs that still run on it. as of now, there is no engagement at the irs. >> if they request that access, would you sign off on that? >> they haven't, so we will take it when it comes to it. i think there is a lot to do there, but the president was elected with a big agenda and to the extent that getting the irs in better shape is part of that,

sure. because look with the irs, what am i concerned about? i'm concerned about collections. i'm concerned about privacy. and i'm concerned that the system is robust. jackie: that was u.s. treasury secretary scott bessent, let's bring in meg sheppard now. before we get into doge, i want to address a story that just crossed the wire from reuters. trump plans to issue reciprocal tariffs as early as friday, he told republicans yesterday of his plans. can you break down what we know so far? >> we are still trying to confirm this report, but it is significant in the sense that one of the biggest concerns that investors have had and companies have had about the coming administration will be what happens on trade and tariffs, just owing to the widespread

potential economic impact. the reuters report does not specify which companies -- countries would be targeted. it is unclear how detailed he got in the conversation, but we are going to hear from the president later today. he is holding a news conference with the visiting prime minister of japan in the 1:00 hour and this is certain to be one of the top questions in the agenda. he may use the moment to make the announcement there. caroline: tariffs feed into inflation anxiety and lower consumer confidence. there is a widening impact here. i wonder if we hear more about ai as well. we know mark zuckerberg writing hike on his share price has gone to the white house to discuss ai leadership. >> ai has been one of the themes of the trump administration and the president rescinded the biden executive order that sought to put more guardrails on the industry.

he has signed his own order looking to launch for the industry. we saw the announcement in the oval office at the white house to talk about potential investment in the u.s. of up to $500 billion. he has been a frequent companion to trump lately at mar-a-lago to talk further about this, what the japanese investment firm's plans are in the u.s., but also what japan's plans are for developing ai as well. jackie: there is another companion trump has and that is elon musk. doge has been storming across washington looking for savings.

in that video, you saw scott bessent trying to l.a. concerns that he did not have access to non-read-only information. but what did he say about having access in the first place? does he agree with what doge is doing in washington? >> he endorsed it. he indicated he was completely aligned with elon musk when it came to this effort to find savings, to reduce the size of the federal government and make the systems more efficient. during the conversation with our colleague, we heard the treasury seretary point its antiquated systems, that hardware is decades-old and it has been repeatedly cited by the government accountability office. they need to find money to do

that. one of the reasons it is difficult to simply march in and do this is that these older systems can be sensitive. even small changes carry the risk of perhaps a disruption of some sort and that is probably the last thing this administration wants to see. caroline: thank you. we will speak about bitcoin adoption broadening in 2025. this is bloomberg technology. ♪ ♪♪ only servicenow connects every corner of your business, putting ai to work for people. pfft ... every corner? every corner, nick. ow! so kate in hr ... hey kate. can focus on people, not process. oh actually, i have a question ...

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caroline: time now for talking

tech. apple's latest budget iphone set to be unveiled next week. it is expected to feature a new design and apple intelligence. it is part of apple's evidence to boost its iphone business which someone percent decline in sales during the holiday quarter. openai is close to announcing data center campuses in texas. speaking in berlin earlier, the ceo said he would also love to help build a similar project in europe. the continent's regulations would determine how fast it advances. gemini is said to be considering an ipo as soon as this year. it is in talks with potential advisors, but no final decision has been made yet. jackie: we state on crypto. alyse killeen joins us now. can this gemini ipo spark a wider wave of ipos across the crypto space?

or his gemini an outlier? >> i hope so. the companies in the field have been maturing. hopefully at the same time as the ipo market is opening. caroline: you are someone who has been in the bitcoin space for years. you have been playing in this field for years. time and again, we have seen a broader adoption. is that all talk from the white house perspective? >> we are seeing incredible adoption and there are great tailwinds to that. tether announced it would launch on bitcoin which means that trillions of dollars in activity and over 400 million tether users could now be hosted on bitcoin and lightning network. those users are in turn. cheaper transaction capabilities. caroline: finally with speed,

with ease may becomes broader adoption. his stablecoin necessary for us to see the way of payments? >> regulatory clarity is overdue, it is necessary in terms of the startup ecosystem. it is helpful oil -- helpful to bitcoin itself as well. jackie: let's stick with regulation, crypto at this point in its lifecycle is still somewhat vulnerable to the winds of washington. we have seen that waxed and waned. what can the administration do in the short term to cement crypto's momentum? >> regulatory clarity will be helpful, but bitcoin and start ups don't exist in a silo. what happens in the economy is incredibly important. we have seen that in bitcoin's

recent volatility. what we are hoping is that as regular -- regulatory clarity happens, they can pursue it more efficiently because capital doesn't need to be spent in creating redundancy and alternative paths. jackie: there is common ground between crypto and artificial intelligence when it comes to data centers, a huge topic in earnings for microsoft and amazon trying to build out the capacity to run their models. not so to similar from bitcoin, it takes a lot of energy consumption. there are concerns the power grid might not be able to handle this demand. are you worried that this infrastructure constraints might impact bitcoin's future growth? >> there is an important convergence between bitcoin

technologies and what is happening in generative ai and the proliferation of llm's. from an energy perspective, bitcoin has been very productive in providing anchor tenancy and mining off of renewable energy sources. bitcoin can do that because it can scale up or down its mining demand space which makes it responsive to demand cycles. bitcoin mining can be applied to ai's energy needs as well. bitcoin technologies can do more than that. the lightning network's ability to scale payments. as generative ai matures, it will need to access micro payments at scale on a reliable network and lightning

architected as a payment channel network can uniquely do that in the crypto sphere. caroline: lightning labs is in your portfolio. satoshi energy is as well. where else is about to take off when it comes to portfolios? what other startups are you looking at? >> what is really taking off in 2025 is companies that are advancing the financial is asian of bitcoin itself. those are companies like a portfolio company that provides enterprise tools so that atc can be added to the balance sheet. you have seen that happen in public companies. over 70 public companies sold bitcoin. we are seeing the same set of activity in the private market. that is facilitated by enterprise tools that are otherwise standard. we are seeing products develop like bitcoin denominated life

insurance. that allows for bitcoin holders to mature their own portfolios so they are represented with the bitcoin etf, holding bitcoin directly and with products to ensure. caroline: always great to have you in new york. more on amazon's earnings. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

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caroline: welcome back to bloomberg technology. i'm caroline hyde in new york. we are going to check in on the markets and one single name is what i want to call out. meda continues to be higher on the day. it is up for the 15th straight day. this is all about ai commitment. giving you a return on ai already. we are seeing that investment pay off. 15% in the last month alone.

we are also looking at what is happening with the buzz around sunday and the super bowl. we want to see how much money, and head of this integral game. we are talking all things super bowl. jackie: it is the big super bowl weekend and $15 billion in sports betting is about to get even bigger. on how the super bowl plays a role, we are joined by jason robbins from draftkings. you are the chief executives of one of the largest sports books and you are facing tough competition from those using contracts linked to sports games, but aren't the traditional sports books. i'm talking crypto.com, call sheet. what type of competition are you seeing? >> i think a lot of different forms of gaming right now and those aren't exactly gaming,

they are classified as financial contracts. a lot of different forms of gaming are appearing in the regulated market. there is a much larger illegal market that is competitive with us. they are much larger ash difficult to compete with because they don't have to follow rules or regulations. a lot of competition out there but we feel like we have the best product and the best customer experience and we think that will win the day. caroline: regulator after regulator you have convinced. what are the winnings for you this weekend? how many bets will be based? what are your takeaways? >> i can't really say what i think the numbers will be, but each year the super bowl gets bigger and bigger. i expect this to be our biggest day ever, sunday i should say. hard to know exactly what the numbers will be. right now, it is a pretty balanced line. in some ways that is good because it means it won't be as volatile. because we have so much money on player products, it is a much bigger deal whether you see

berkeley get in the end zone. caroline: i'm really interested more broadly on what this means for your marketing efforts. this must be a massive draw for people to come back time and again. >> the super bowl is not only the biggest betting day of the year, it is the biggest day of the year for customer acquisition and activation. we have a ton of stuff going on all week leading up to the game and obviously throughout the game. big time for our marketing team. we have won the customer acquisition battle the last three super bowls. we are very confident and we feel we have will have a great showing. jackie: there is another thing taking more people to their televisions to watch the nfl, that is tailor swif. she has driven knee-jerk viewership shins -- since she is dating one of the chiefs players. is draftkings capitalizing in any way?

>> more viewership is always better for us. it is sort of this positive cycle where people bet more and they tend to watch games more and watch longer and more people watching means more opportunities to place wagers with us. that's a good thing for our business and the ratings of the nfl. i don't know how much taylor is contributing to it, but if she is, thank you. jackie: i'm not much of a gambler, but what can you tell us about your current user base? have you seen any shifts in who is putting wagers online? >> it has definitely been growing in terms of female lot against. obviously for us, that is an important vector. right now, our audience is mail so we think there is a lot of groom -- room to grow on that front. the demographic seven changed that much. it typically tends to be average age mid-30's to late 30's, lots of people we think coming from technology, educated backgrounds. typically higher income

consumers. those tend to be the demographics we see and that hasn't changed since we launched. definitely see more women bettors coming in. caroline: i'm interested in the fundamentals of the business. in large part not dictated by you but by what the outcome of the games are. customer friendly winds hit the numbers the last time you came on and discuss them. how do you manage to navigate that and control your own destiny? >> there is always that and this is a business where we are taking aside of the action, so there will be volatility in the results. over time, that normalizes and the things we can control or what we focus on. making sure we provide a great product and create more ways for them to bet and more ways for them to engage. making sure we have a really great backend operation. our trading risk management is a plus, using marketing to drive parlays and other types of betting that is good for margins

and good for the customers. the outcomes will be the outcomes. some years, we will have good years. 2022, we had a good year. last year wasn't. it definitely can vary year to year and that is the business. overall, it doesn't change the fundamentals or the trajectory of the business. w growth drivers going forward, we have heard generative ai is being the key driver for a lot of companies out there. how is draftkings starting to incorporate this across the business? could you see any tasks taken over by ai versus acumen in the short-term? >> we think generative ai is a huge opportunity and it is really more about getting better outcomes for our customers. efficiency internally is simply a means to an end for that. everything from how do we make sure we have great customer service and using chatbot and ai to do that to making sure that our products are as interactive as possible and is easy to use as possible. lots of areas for us to play with ai across the entire business.

a good chunk of our code, about 15% of our code right now is being written by generative ai so we feel we have a long way to go but we are seeing great traction of internal adoption. caroline: it has been great having you on. 31 buys on the stock, zero sales. thank you for stopping by. we want to stick with the super bowl and how people are making bets on the outcome. ira, just how much money is going to be placed and how are they placing these bets? >> the best estimates are 1.5 billion dollars in legal wagers, in the 38 states and washington dc that now allow it with regulated sports books. that is a fraction of some unknown number that is probably at least as much or more than the legal wagers still being placed with offshore books, illegal bookies. we don't know the full size of

that dark pool of money, but that is part of the job. jackie: there are new entrants coming into the space. robinhood was offering the opportunity to be able to participate in the super bowl bets. >> that is the latest wrinkle. we are seeing derivatives exchanges, futures markets get into this. crypto.com, call sheet both come forward with swaps that functional locks -- a lot like sports bets. super bowl is the biggest betting day on the u.s. calendar as a way to introduce this idea. caroline: around the election as well, you saw the predictions market as a way of placing bets.

apart from this being a customer acquisition tool for the likes of draftkings and fanduel, what else can they use from this day? like the cannabis industry also has a lot of competition. how do you turn attention to that? >> i think the sports books in the background are asking regulators for clarity. can we go through the cftc? what is the safe play? ultimately if it is possible to run a federally regulated sports book or an exchange market that includes sports events, they might want to do that. it is really about letting regulators drive clarity thune about what is allowed and what is not. this is a huge day for bringing in new customers. ice i think they see this as a potentially competitive threat. caroline: it has been great

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caroline: this is bloomberg technology and you are looking at a live shot of the principal room. find it online at apple, spotify, and i hard. this is bloomberg. jackie: shares of fintech company affirm are soaring after

they posted second-quarter results. i have the ceo with me here in san francisco. what are your results telling us about the consumer. as i think about it, does that mean they are spending more or that their budgets are pinched and resorting to breaking up their payments? >> i think our results are telling you that consumers prefer affirm. they chose us as their preferred shopping tool. obviously, we outgrew the industry, we outgrew a lot of the retail numbers. clearly, folks are recognizing that the tool we have built for them is safe and useful and we are delighted to help them with their holiday shopping and beyond. jackie: what sorts of new merchants are on the platform? >> we are available at almost 80% last i checked of all u.s. e-commerce. we are very widely distributed from this point.

the categories over the holiday period were travel, which continues to be really strong even now. people need to get to the super bowl. but also electronics, general merchandise is also really strong. there are a lot of really good results. caroline: interesting that expedia also did really well given its exposure to travel. max, the analysts love the numbers. where do you want to even more finesse? where's your target right now? >> you know, we have a lot of work to do still. i appreciate the picture-perfect comment, that is extremely kind of him. we are very proud of those results, obviously. we have another half of the fiscal year to go. we got an 8 coming up. we are excited about that.

we just launched in the u.k.. we have exceptionally strong growth with our hard product. just continuing to invest in what is going well for us there. many things to do. caroline: what is so interesting is basically credit rating companies recently did a big study with your help showing about the impact of by now, pay later loans, what it does for credit scores. it actually makes them higher or stays the same. how can you really breathe this into the market to shake off some of the negativity around buy now, pay later and the data proves out that this doesn't impact you? >> i think the most important metric we care about is a company is consumer adoption. last quarter's strong growth. folks understand the value that

we bring this sense of control. we don't charge late fees or compound interest. it is a much better product then your credit card or just about anything else out there. we already are report they are actually building these credit history as long as they are responsible borrowers. it is another confirmation point. it helps consumers on a daily basis and in the long term. jackie: speaking of other consumers across the pond, you have expanded to the united kingdom. it is coming at a time where regulators are starting to scrutinize buy now, pay later practices. how does that affect your plans? >> because we are so focused on

being honest and transparent, our mission states we must build honest financial products to approve lives, we have taken the position we want to engage with the regulators. my first meeting when i landed across the pond was to meet with several of his majesty's treasury officials to make sure they understand who we are and what we stand for. we will continue to engage with regulators and the u.k., but in the u.s. as well in canada where we also operate. we are very pro thoughtful regulation. jackie: talk to us about ai. you have a chatbot that handles 20,000 inquiries on black friday. >> per day. jackie: at what point will you be able to use that ai technology perhaps across your platform? could you expect to see them taking over any human tasks? >> we see ais a productivity enhancer. we are not replacing humans with

robots here. that is not our plan. but there are productivity gains to be had. the chatbot is widely available and hammers -- handles two thirds of human queries today, but anytime you wish to reach a human, you can. that is exactly what we intend to do. we use ai to do all sorts of really interesting things. we must as part of our regulatory obligation track that the merchants advertise and promote a firm responsibly and don't promote things that misrepresent terms. we have an llm system that we built internally to track that. extraordinarily effective. there are millions of points across the web where our name is mentioned and it is our responsibility to make sure the terms are accurate. the great tool that ai can do for us and humans will never be able to keep up with.

that is a blueprint of how we use ai everywhere. caroline: is that your main area of investment? where else do you have to be spending to grow? >> you know, we grow primarily with the help of our merchants. if you look at our numbers, we will see that our advertising and marketing budgets are incredibly modest and that is because we partner with extraordinary companies, extraordinary scale, extraordinary consumer obsessed e thousand. amazon and walmart and target and many brands that folks know and love. they promote our service to their shoppers and that is how consumers first find out what we stand for, who we are, and how we can help them. our growth is predominantly driven by our partnerships. investments in technology, that is where we invest in exciting things like generative ai and productivity. we know how to budget it so we don't overspend in those things. caroline: affirm ceo, best day for the stock since november 11.

thanks for joining. coming up, more on amazon. the company saying it can't keep up with the ai demand. spending $100 billion to boost capacity. this is bloomberg technology. ♪

caroline: boy, it has been a week of earnings.

amazon on the downside, biggest points contribution dragging indices lower, off by 4%. aws growth not accelerating because it can't meet demand. $100 billion invested. pinterest having its best day since may of last year. up 16%. all about genai investment. expedia, best day since november 2023, holiday bookings beating expectations. amazon, the juggernaut. going through so many stocks. let's start with amazon. most analysts seem to be upgrading targets. they are convinced this investment is worth it. >> look, amazon does have the largest cloud business. almost $115 billion. it is quite impressive what they are able to do. the one negative i would cite here is that microsoft is the only one that has quantified

their ai contribution. they said it was a $13 million run rate this quarter. in the case of google and amazon as well, we don't know exactly what the ai workload contribution is. remember, amazon only competes in the infrastructure levers. crosoft is selling you office copilot. google is also selling you other types of software. if we had kind of known what the ai contribution was, it would be more clear in terms of how things are shifting between traditional cloud and ai workloads. jackie: this crossed the wire not too long ago. bill ackman said pershing square owns 30 million uber shares. what do you make of it? >> when you look at the valuation, there was a case to be made that they trade at a cheaper valuation relative to the marketplaces.

it looks like the valuation argument is coming in. caroline: best day since february of this year. thank you. that doesn't it for this edition of bloomberg technology. ♪ investment opportunities are everywhere you turn. but at t. rowe price, we're letting curiosity light the way. asking smart questions about opportunities like advances in healthcare. and how these innovations will create a healthier world tomorrow. better questions. better outcomes.

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