david: this is my kitchen table, and it's also my filing system. over much of the past three

decades, i've been an investor. [applause] the highest calling of mankind, i've often thought, was private equity. [laughter] and then i started interviewing. i watched your interviews, so i know how to do some interviewing. [laughter] i've learned from doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. jeff: i asked him how much he wanted. he said 250. i said, fine. i didn't negotiate with him, and i did no due diligence. david: i have something i would like to sell. [laughter] and how they stay there. you don't feel inadequate now, because being only the second wealthiest man in the world, is that right? [laughter] david: there is a great deal of excitement in washington these days but perhaps the greatest excitement is about the arrival of two pandas from china. i had the chance to sit down with brandie smith, who oversees the national zoo and overseas the panda program to talk about the pandas. we are in the panda house because pandas have returned to the national zoo. why are pandas so popular? i think i read that 80% of the

people who come to the national zoo want to see the pandas. they are nice animals but why are they that popular? brandie: first of all, they are cute. they are adorable. people just want to see them. the thing i love about pandas is the way they are built. we are genetically designed to love pandas. they have round features, cute -- round ears, round eyes, these cute voices. the same thing that pings when we see a baby, the same thing pings when we see a panda. we are designed to think they are adorable. they are rare. it is a matter of having the opportunity to see them. when you can. pandas are a story of joy. pandas are a story of joy, hope, happiness and success. it is a successful program everyone is a part of. david: when did you get the new pandas? brandie: these pandas came in october of 2024, just a few months ago. david: how old are they? brandie: they are both three

years old. they are here not only because they are adorable, but they are part of a breeding program helping to save the species. we wanted to get the most genetically valuable animals. we narrowed it down to a few pairs. we sent a veterinarian to china to check the records of the different animals and we asked them to select the cutest pair. david: when richard nixon went to china in the early 1970's, as a gift, he said here are two pandas and they came to the national zoo. at the time they were the only pandas in the u.s. brandie: they were at that time. that was really the start of the giant panda conservation program. as we know it. david: they were gifts to the country. subsequent to that, china began a program of lending pandas or renting pandas to zoos around the world. i thought i read there were 27 zoos around the world that have pandas. is that how it works? brandie: we received the first pandas.

they were estate gift. there was a loan program to other zoos. as a part of that program, there is a conservation fee zoos paid to the panda breeding centers in china. the pandas we have now are part of that program. david: was it easy to get the pandas to come back to washington, d.c.? did the chinese say we have some extra pandas and we do not know what to do with them? brandie: it was more difficult on that. it was about over the course of a year where we had conversations with our colleagues in china and we were able to get pandas here quickly. i think it is a testament to the relationship we have built over decades, to the conservation success we've had with our pandas and panda program. it was a lot of conversations. but i think we always knew in the end we did want pandas at the national zoo. david: how big is the national zoo? how many acres do you have? brandie: we have two facilities. the zoo and washington, d.c. is 175 acres.

in rock creek park. we also have a facility called our conservation biology institute. that is 3200 acres in front royal, virginia. david: when i was a little boy growing up in baltimore, we had a zoo, it still exists, but the animals were in big cages. they did not seem to roam around much. my understanding is people in charge of zoos let animals have more freedom and space than they used to. what about the argument that some people say it is not nice to have zoos at all, let the animals stay in the wild. why should we have people like me gawking at them all the time -- how do you respond to that? brandie: i love that question because it is asked to make people who care deeply about animals. i will answer into parts and one is the emotional part about animals and zoos. i think about people who have pets. people get pets, most of them are not trained to care for them. they don't know that much. they bring them to their house, they have them in their apartment, go for walks every so

often. they know those animals are cared for. the animals are happy and they know that they love them and they are loved back. imagine you have hundreds of experts trained in the care of animals. people spent their entire lives caring for these animals with the best nutrition, best veterinary medicine, they are designed to meet behavioral and biological needs. that is animals in zoos. we know they are happy. we love them, they know they are loved back. david: other than pandas, what are the biggest attraction at the national zoo? brandie: people love the big animals -- pandas, elephants, lions, tigers, cheetahs. but one fact i think is really funny, the most searched animal on our website are snakes. i do not know if people are searching them because they want to see them or they are afraid to see them.

david: let's go back and talk about the pandas because they are so popular and you get a lot of visitors because of that. where do pandas come from? why is it only one place? 200 countries in the world, why does only one country have pandas? brandie: that is the area. they are indigenous to the cool mountain forests in china. that is the habitat that sustains them the best. pandas are obligate bamboo eaters. if pandas do not eat bamboo they will get sick. they are heavily dependent on having the appropriate habitat. david: pandas, a couple million years old, we think, they used to have a wheat diet, they were carnivores but than 500,000 years ago they became herbivores. i do not know if that is easy to do with your stomach. because they only eat vegetables, do they have enough nutrition to get through the day? brandie: a lot of people don't realize this -- pandas are

carnivores and they are bears -- true bears. they have evolved to take advantage of a more plentiful resource. they don't have to chase down their food, it pretty much grows up around them when i sit there. -- as they sit there. they have grown special adaptations to consume bamboo as quickly as possible. what it lacks in quality, they make up for in quantity. the pandas at the national zoo, we feed each panda 100 pounds of freshly cut bamboo every day. david: if you eat 100 pounds of bamboo every day, doesn't that take a lot of energy and that means they sleep a lot? they use up a lot of energy eating? brandie: they are digesting. they spend their time -- i feel like a panda's life is eating, sleeping and playing. i also think we love pandas because they are living our best lives. it is so fun to watch them because sometimes you will see a panda mowing through bamboo leaves and they will stop for a

second second -- it is like they are taking a mini nap to digest. david: you grow your own bamboo, you do not bring it in from china? brandie: we actually grow -- we have the facility in virginia, 3200 acres, we do a lot of our research there. all of our labs are there for the conservation and science work we do. we grow all of our own hay, alfalfa and bamboo. david: the panda bear has -- we have five fingers -- a panda bear seems to have a sixth finger to help them pick up the bamboo. is that an evolutionary trick? brandie: it is not a thumb, it is a modified wrist bone. it is a flexible wrist bone that functions almost like a thumb as they hold onto bamboo. bamboo is circular. if you watch them, it looks like they are holding on. it is part of the evolution from being -- instead of investing in being a better predator in chasing down meat, the invested

evolutionarily in being the best bamboo eater you can imagine. david: there is a problem pandas have, there are so few of them. it was thought for a long time that they were thought to be an endangered species, now they are considered vulnerable. how many pandas are there in the entire world? brandie: this is incredible. this is due to the panda program. it is so important. when we started with giant pandas 50 years ago, there were fewer than a thousand pandas in the world. we are talking in the wild and zoos. decades later, there are close to 2000 pandas in the wild. i think a little over 1800. there are over 700 pandas inbreeding centers. as part of this program, we have tripled the number of pandas on the planet. david: that is still a small number of pandas. brandie: it is a small number, but this is what we are doing -- this is what i love about the program. people see the pandas, it is

cute, it is great, but when they contribute, they buy a stuffed panda or t-shirt, they are funding our conservation efforts. not only are we breeding pandas, not only are we learning more about giant pandas, but we are saving their habitat in the wild. when this started, there were about 10 small, little reserves where pandas could live. there are panda reserves in china three times the size of yellowstone. because of this program, there are more pandas on the planet, more quality panda habitat in the wild and pandas have gone from being endangered to being vulnerable. david: one problem pandas have and the reason they are so few is their ability to reproduce is the most limited or most challenging in the entire animal world. i think the female panda can only reproduce a short period of time, maybe one day a year. so the male has to show up at the right time. how does that work? brandie: it is actually really

interesting. the female has a narrow window where she is reproductively viable. but the males go through something called rut, which is much longer. for months, they can overlap multiple females, the males are looking for a mate. they are sent marking, -- scent marking, covering a large territory. they are looking for a mate and advertising to females they would be a great father to their cubs. david: many vips i assume call you up and say i would like to bring my grandchildren, children, go myself to see pandas. do you get a lot of that? brandie: there are a lot of people who want to see giant pandas. the thing i love the most is we are part of the smithsonian so everyone, no matter how vip you are, you can come here and see giant pandas for free. ♪

david: let me ask you how one becomes the head of the national zoo? let's talk about your

background. where did you grow up? brandie: indiana, pennsylvania. it is in western pennsylvania, small town. i had a rural delivery address and most of my relatives of were coal miners. david: when you were growing up and you were a little girl, did you play with dolls or pandas? brandie: i did not have pandas. stuffed animals. my neighbors had cows so i would go over and feed the cows. see my friends who worked on farms. david: you told your parents you wanted to be a national zoo director? how did you let your parents and know that you wanted to be -- are you trained as a zoologist? brandie: i was a young girl interested in science in the middle of nowhere in pennsylvania. i thought if you wanted to be a scientist, that meant you were a doctor, and i thought that was my only career path. i got -- my undergraduate degree is in biology. i thought about it and i said this is not what i want to do.

i want to work with animals. i was about to start an internship with an ophthalmologist and i called the pittsburgh zoo and said i want to do what you do. tell me, how did you get this job? this was back in the day. the guy said i am on my way to interview for a summer intern and i will interview you right now and if you do well i will hire you. i got the job. i went home and told my mother that instead of doing an internship with the doctor i would intern turn as a zookeeper. david: what did she say? brandie: [laughter] we were driving at the time. one is she almost drove the car off the road. the other, it was the first time i ever heard my mother swear. she said at least do something respectable with your life, be a lawyer. david: you got the internship and you must have liked it. what happened? brandie: i tell people i never

made a smart career choice in my life. i always followed my heart. i did the internship at the zoo. the things i love about dues -- zoos are unique conservation organization. there are species that exist on the planet today because of zoos. because we care for animals and can breed them. a black footed ferret, panamanian golden frog, the list goes on. i was fascinated with the idea of genetically managing how we manage the species genetically so that they are safe for the wild. i got a masters degree in zoology that focused on genetic management. i got a job at another zoo, more internships, i got my phd and ended up here. david: you got your phd in zoology? brandie: it is a program at the university of maryland. it is called behavior ecology evolution and systematics. david: did you get a job immediately after at the national zoo? brandie: i was the head of conservation in science for an organization called the

association of zoos and aquariums. we set conservation goals for accredited zoos across the country. it is in office, association. i just really missed being in a zoo. i missed the animals. we create magic for people on a daily basis. i missed being a part of that. david: how many zoos are there in the u.s.? brandie: 2500 licensed in the united states. then there is also an accrediting program by the association of zoos and aquariums. i think under 250 zoos are accredited, less than 10%. less than 10% of zoos in the country are accredited. those are the best of the best. david: the most famous zoo in the u.s. or the biggest is the san diego zoo, is that the biggest? brandie: i do think it is the most well-known zoo. a lot of people are familiar with that zoo. david: the national zoo is not the only zoo in the u.s. that has had pandas. i thought there were at four -- one pointsan diego, memphis,

atlanta, and washington. brandie: the program started at roughly the same time. a lot of pandas were moving through in cohorts. a lot of zoos in the past two or three years, the pandas were older and returning to china. right now only the national zoo and the san diego zoo have giant pandas. david: you go back and finish up on your career. you are working at this association and use it i really want to be with animals directly. did you apply to the national zoo? brandie: yeah. there was an opening for a general curator. it was more a curator of mammals and of giant pandas. my story came full circle because when i got the job here -- i was in charge of the giant pandas -- my mother was so proud. david: did she come to visit the pandas? brandie: right away. [laughter] david: you were the head of the mammal program. including the pandas. when did you become the head of the national zoo itself? brandie: at first i was essentially curator of mammals and giant pandas and after a few years i became the head of

animal care. i saw all of the animals, veterinarians, nutrition records, behavior, all of the departments. eventually i became deputy director. and a few years later i became director. david: if you walk around and see the pandas, do they recognize you? brandie: it is one of the saddest movements in my life. when i was curator of pandas, i was here all the time, the pandas knew who i was. they recognized me or my voice. i would call their name and they would show an interest. as director i am not with them every day. i am not the bringer of food, love and happiness. david: what did you do when covid came? nobody showed up then, right? brandie: i will never forget that moment. the concern is not i can't go home, the concern was what happens if i get sick and i cannot take care of my animals? ♪

david: the pandas that you have now, they would begin breeding at what age? brandie: they are three years old. probably around five or six would be the earliest they have a cub. david: when they are ready to breed, it does not always work so you have an artificial insemination program. brandie: we do. the first thing you want to do is for the animals to breed naturally. if we have animals that are behaviorally competent, they know everything they are supposed to do and they breed naturally, that is the best thing all around. but we are in the business of saving a species. so we want to make sure that the genes of these animals are represented in the population. david: as a zoologist, why do you think the evolution is they are black-and-white? what is it about black and white that they evolve that way? brandie: in the wild, there are a lot of animals that have black and white coloration patterns.

pandas, tapirs, zebra. we do not know exactly why but there are some different things. it could be because they had an opportunity for individual identification. does it help them recognize individuals? is it something to do with camouflage? is it something to do with keeping and radiating heat? ♪ david: today, how many different

species do you have at the national zoo? brandie: we have about 3000 animals from 300 different species. david: how many professionals do you have working there? brandie: at both locations, about 400. david: how many people come per year to the national zoo? brandie: just under 2 million come every year. we only had one year without giant pandas. what we noticed was our attendance dropped 20%. when the giant pandas were not here. david: what did you do when covid came and nobody showed up? brandie: we did not have any visitors but we had to keep working. if we are responsible for the living collection -- i will actually never forget that moment. the world was closing down because of covid and our team gathered in the lion and tiger building and the offices have this kind of bunker like feel. we were there and everyone was like what do we do? everyone's concern -- the concern was not i cannot go home

-- it is what happens if i get sick and i cannot take care of my animals? we had animal care -- we had an a team and b team that did not cross -- so we always had someone who could be there to take care of the animals. david: does china say if you have two pandas they rented to you and there is a baby panda that they own the baby panda, or you do? brandie: they own all pandas but it is a good thing because the majority of pandas live in china. we are not producing pandas because we want to -- although it is wonderful. these pandas are all part of a conservation program. if a cub was here and grew up here, it cannot breed with its parents. so it returns to china so they can be a part of the breeding program. david: when a baby can see and hear, a human can pick the baby up, right? let's say in a zoo are controlled setting, you are

allowed to pick up a panda at a small size. is that right? brandie: we do wellness checks on the cubs soon after they are born. so we get hands-on giant pandas to make sure they are doing fine and everything is ok. david: after a panda is what size is it not possible for a zookeeper to be in the cage along with them because they are bears and could be dangerous? brandie: usually when they are about a year old, they hit about 100 pounds. that is the time when they start to get -- they are not predators, they will not see you as food or a threat -- but even if they do, they have strong jaws, sharp claws so an animal could inadvertently hurt you without trying. david: if i went into a panda place right now and they now weigh 300 pounds, would that be dangerous? brandie: it would be. and not because -- again, they are not predators, so you wouldn't little -- not look like

food or a tasty treat if you walked in. but they would think you are a toy. they could think you are something we gave to them to play with. their bite force equals that of a lion or a tiger. if they want to play with you, they have the claws, teeth and strength to do damage. david: let's talk about the panda cam. you have a camera that watches pandas 24 hours a day. brandie: people enjoy watching the panda cam because they are seeing them how we watch them. we decided to do something different because it is not just people in the u.s. but people around the world are watching the panda cam. we want to do it during the day time. during the 12 hours during the day when people -- when the pandas are awake, keepers are interacting with them. we have 12 hours with the giant pandas, and replay the 12 hours for the people in the other side of the world want to see giant pandas. david: have you thought about selling advertising? brandie: we are smithsonian

national zoo, so we receive about 60% of our funding from the federal government. as such, we want to make sure we are open and available to every single person who wants to see giant pandas and not necessarily be assailed by ads. david: 60% from the federal government -- the other 40% just falls out of the sky? where does that come from? brandie: we are fortunate. we are talking about the panda cam. boeing sponsors our panda cams. we have incredibly generous donors who support us through philanthropy. we also generate revenue. when people come to the zoo and they come here for free because we are smithsonian, but when they buy a stuffed panda or t-shirt or eat a hamburger or hotdog here, that money goes to support the zoo and all of our conservation work. david: if somebody wants to know something about the national zoo and you have two for three sentences you can give them, what is the summary?

why is it so great? why should somebody visit the national zoo? brandie: national zoo is part of smithsonian. we are free, open and welcome to everyone. when you come here, you will not just see the animals and have an incredible time that will stay with you and your family the rest of your lives, you are part of our conservation success. ♪

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