david: this is my kitchen table and also my filing system. for much of the past few decades i have been an investor. the highest calling of mankind i've often thought was private equity. and then i started interviewing. i watch you interview because i know how to do some interviews. i've learned from doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. jeff: i asked him how much he wanted, he said 250, i didn't negotiate and i did no due diligence. david: i have something i'd like to sell. and how they stay there. you don't feel inadequate being only the second wealthiest man in the world, is that right? i'm in the headquarters of the national football league, where i've just had a chance to interview the commissioner of the nfl, roger goodell, who is now serving his 19th year as commissioner. i had a chance to talk with him about issues like international expansion, popularity of the

nfl, and the fact that private equity firms are now being allowed to invest in the nfl. today, the nfl is by far the most profitable and largest revenue sports franchise or league in the world. revenue of about $20 billion or so last year, and every team seems to be profitable. the television ratings are very good. what do you think makes the nfl so popular? roger: it always starts with the game, david. i think the game is one of the greatest games, if not, the greatest game in the world. competition is extraordinary, the players, the coaching, our games have never been closer in history. i think it brings people together. it does well on media. i think the television experience is as great as anything in television. i think being in the stadium is better, but i think we are fortunate to have a great product. second, i would say the business model. i think we have a tremendous business model.

i think when you look at the key aspects of revenue-sharing and a salary cap that we have designed with our players, that we have something that i think makes every team competitive, and i think that's unusual. they have the finances to be competitive. i think that's an important element that people overlook. and i think it also is just a statement. you know better than i do, you are a great investor and you know this business better than i do. i think it's a statement on the potential success going forward. david: you had a number of games overseas in recent years. you opened the season going to the opening game in brazil. do you expect to do more overseas games, and is that a part of your strategy? roger: it is. we had five last year and we expect to have eight this year, which will be the highest we've ever had. our hope would be to get to 16 games in the next few years.

we think we could do that. i think it's an indication of popularity of our game. every time we take our game to a new market, brazil is a great example of it, the fans go crazy for it. they sold out the tickets in less than 90 minutes. people had a wonderful time, it was the talk of the town. i think it will be the basis of the excitement and the popularity of the game in that market, as well as what we are doing around the world. we are very excited by it. it's just one element of that strategy, you need to have television, you need to have activity participation of the sport, and football is a big part of that. all of those factors i think are going to be what we think will be a very successful formula to be a global sport. david: do you ever envision having a team based overseas in mexico city or london? roger: we've talked an awful lot about it and i think there are markets, without question, that could support an nfl franchise, i think there's a lot of issue with the expansion of our league that we have to debate on that one.

additional teams. we have 32 now. we think that's a really good number for the nfl. but also, i think we would probably look at it potentially as building out by divisions as opposed to individual teams. you have a lot of issues with the team that's in europe, and having to travel over playing games, and teams going back over to europe to play. i think the competitive issue still needs to be worked out. david: all the super bowls have been held in the united states and you've had more than 50 of them so far. do you ever envision a time when the super bowl will be held in a city not in the united states? roger: we've always had super bowl in a city that has had a franchise. that is the core principle we've had. i think if we have an international franchise, i definitely see that happening. i think as we become global, that will be something that, as we have international

franchises, that would be logical. david: let's talk about one of the franchises. recently a team was sold for $6 billion about a year ago or so, the washington commanders, for a price that nobody ever thought a sports franchise in the united states would reach. $6 billion. were you surprised the price was that high? roger: no. i think, one, that is franchised, growing up in washington i probably have deeper emotional feelings for it. but that's a franchise and a great market and we believe that it's going to be a tremendous success there and i think josh harrison's limited investors are going to do a great job. i'm not surprised they got to that price. david: recently the nfl allowed private equity firms, including mine, to invest in nfl teams and minority stakes up to 10% and a number of these have already been done. i think valuations are above the $6 billion level. i think some of the minority

stake investments are an $8 billion valuations. why did you let the bad guys known as the private equity people into the tent and why have you capped it at 10%? roger: letting the bad guys in we really feel like there are things you guys could teach us about our business and maybe help us think about it a little differently. as you know, that 10% is a silent position. we believe very strongly that we like the principal owner approach that we've had for years and other sports have had successfully. so we want to make sure that the controlling owner is the one that makes the decision on behalf of the club at the league level and at the club level. david: do you ever envision a time when a sovereign wealth fund could invest directly in a minority stake of a team? roger: i don't think we will ever allow institutional in a controlling position. at least in the foreseeable future.

i think we feel very strongly about having a principal owner that is there operating a franchise, responsible for that both in the club level and the league level. david: in television is the case that somebody that only subscribes to basic cable can still watch his teams or her team's home games? what are the rules? it's very complicated as to what you have to pay for and what you don't have to pay for today, what is the basic rule that makes it possible for someone to watch the nfl game for their home team? roger: it's as simple as it gets. we are committed to free television for home markets. not just the home team, the visiting team. they will get to watch their game on free television, 100%. david: everybody who wants to wash her home team can watch on basic television for free. now you have other packages where people want to watch special games or games that are not their home team, they then sign up for a netflix package or something else like that? roger: we have a few games on paid service but close to 90% of our games are on free television

for everybody. i think that is something we are incredibly proud of and i think it has led to the popularity of our game because people can access it. we give them opportunities to see those games. we have a limited number of packages, whether it's espn, netflix or amazon or youtube or espn plus or our own network where we have i think it's roughly 35 games that are available and those are pay services that are available. and they've been incredibly successful. we just had a christmas day game with netflix that averaged over 30 million people on a global basis. those audiences are younger. we are seeing that on some of these new services. as you know, the media business is changing. it's our responsibility to make sure we do what's right in the best interest of our game to

partner where we can bring more fans into the game. i think we have a nice balance, but we are still very reliant on our original partners. our network partners. david: what about the taylor swift effect? some people say that taylor swift is bringing more fans in because they want to watch her watch games and other people say that she is getting as much attention as her boyfriend, who's a player for one of the teams, the kansas city chiefs. has that had any impact on the nfl or not that much? roger: i think it's at a positive impact. the most important thing is that two young people, travis kelce and taylor swift, seem to have a wonderful relationship and they are both incredible people which i've had a good fortune of getting to know. we just wish them well. but as far as what it's done, it has bought just brought more interest into the game. taylor swift is one of the greatest entertainers in the world today and i think has a tremendous following and the fact that she likes football i think intrigues other people and causes them to be interested in

the game. that's a good thing. david: in the united states, the biggest sporting event every year is the super bowl. what is super bowl week like for you? you have to go to the city, do you have to deal with everybody, you have to be polite to everybody, you cannot get upset with everything, but is it just a lot of tension that week and do you make the decision on what city you are going to have the super bowl in and who the entertainment is going to be? roger: let's start with the selection because it usually happens five years out. it's actually a process we go through to select the super bowl city. the owners ultimately vote on that. they select that city. our staff works with that city for roughly five years. super bowl week has gotten bigger. it starts earlier. it now starts on monday night with a big media event.

it's an incredible event that we think is a celebration of football on a global basis. it's a hard week because you are pushed in a lot of different directions, but i couldn't be more honored or more privilege to do it. it's excitement. when we have 200 million people watching the super bowl, which is with the number was, that's an extraordinary impact, an extraordinary event that you have a lot of responsibilities to pull that off successfully. david: do you get people who say they knew you from high school calling up asking you for super bowl tickets from time to time or do you never get that? roger: i get that a few times. yes. ♪

david: you wrote a letter to pete roselle when you were in college asking for an internship. this was in the early 1980's, and he responded positively because you got an internship.

have you ever thought in your wildest imaginations what would've happened had he not responded positively and where you might be today? roger: he was kind. i don't know about positive. they get a lot of letters and a lot of interest in becoming an intern. he pushed it off to his executive director. i think it was close to 53 letters later when i got the internship. so it was an immediate response and you have got a job. it took almost one year before that happened. but i have no idea what i would be doing today if i wasn't here at the nfl. david: you didn't have an idea of doing something important like private equity if you haven't gotten into it? roger: those guys are too smart for me. david: i doubt that. some people that are watching now and say what did he put in his letter that was so persuasive to get an internship with the nfl, what did you say

that future people that want to write letters to people like you should put in their letter? roger: well, i have a copy of it over there, but i would say it wasn't what was written in the letter. i think it was the fact that i wrote 53 times. at one point the executive director said, if you are ever in new york, come by, and i said i happen to be in new york and he said, can come by at 8:00, i said of course. i had a problem, i was in pittsburgh, so i drove all night to get there. i think you just have to take advantage of your opportunities and distinguish yourself in some ways of what you are deeply passionate about and what you think you can create value for someone. david: let's talk about your background. where were you born? roger: jamestown, new york. i grew up in washington, d.c. david: what did your parents do? roger: my mother was a nurse, my father was a politician. a lawyer. david: he was a congressman who was appointed by nelson rockefeller to succeed the

assassinated robert f. kennedy and became a senator. roger: correct. david: and then your family moved to washington then? roger: we moved to washington in 1959 when i was born. so he could serve in congress. david: people may not remember this but your father was very famous because he was a moderate republican and was appointed by nelson rockefeller, also a republican, and then he opposed the war in vietnam under richard nixon and then johnson, and that became very difficult for him politically because many republicans at that time wanted to support richard nixon and didn't feel that a republican opposed the vietnam war was a good republican, let's put it that way. was that difficult for you or were you proud of your father at the time because many people who were younger at the time were against the vietnam war. roger: i couldn't be prouder of my father and the courage he took to do something he knew was the right thing to do. it wasn't popular, and he knew at the time that he would likely lose his seat and lose the

election, but he did it anyhow. and they think when we were young, he actually gathered us around. i'm one of five boys, with my mother and father, and said, i'm going to do this, but i will likely lose the election. but, that was a lesson that stays with me to this day that you have to do the right things, regardless of the consequences. david: let's go back to your growing up. you grew up in washington but then you move back to new york? roger: after he lost the election. david: where did you live afterwards? roger: bronxville, new york. david: you went to high school in bronxville and you were a three sport star. you were in football, basketball, and baseball and the captain of all three of those teams in your high school. you went to washington and jefferson college in pennsylvania and when you graduated, then you wrote your famous letter to the nfl, but, what were you doing when you were waiting to hear back from the nfl?

were you working at mcdonald's or something like that? roger: i wasn't. i took some time the summer after i graduated and i focused on what i wanted to do. i eventually, because i did not hear back from the nfl in a positive way until i think february of the year after i graduated, i worked in the steel industry briefly. i worked for jones and markel steel, which was a good experience for me in a management training program. david: you get the job at the nfl. you work for then the commissioner was pete roselle, who was the longest serving commissioner, you are the second-longest serving, is that right? roger: i think that may be true, i hadn't thought about that.

david: pete roselle was the person who helped orchestrate -- he became commissioner at only 33 years old when the afl and the nfl came together, what were you doing in the early years? roger: i was an intern in the public relations department so i did a little bit of everything. i guess maybe my two big breaks where the jets at one point needed an intern late in the preseason and they asked if i wanted to go over and do that, so i had a chance to be with the jets for one season, and it was a remarkable experience for me. to be on the club level and understand what they go through, you know it. it's different than what we do at the league level and it was incredibly valuable experience, but i went back after the season. i was actually asked by one of the coaches, the defensive coordinator to stay and be an assistant coach. i decided i want to go back to the nfl, even though i didn't have an opportunity there, i was still an intern for another year and a half. i thought it was the right thing and what i wanted to do. pete roselle was a hero of mine and i wanted to work for him. i thought the nfl played a really important role in society

and had a great future. david: did you ever think if you stayed with the jets you could one day become a football coach at the nfl? roger: i could have, i probably wouldn't be with the jets anymore. their tenure didn't last very long. i think i made the right choice. david: in 2006, you became the commissioner. now people are probably wondering, what does the commissioner actually do? it's a great title, the commissioner, but it's an awkward position in the sense that you are employed by the owners but you have to sometimes penalize the employers when they do something wrong, you have to fine them and sometimes they are not happy. how does that work that you have to please the people who are your employers but also sometimes you have to fine them. roger: i just say don't get 24 owners in one day pissed off at you. but i think the real issue is, yes, you are hired by the owners, they select you. but i think the commissioner's ultimate role is to protect the integrity of the game and to

grow the game. that happens by balancing a lot of interests, including players and coaches and owners and partners. the general public and our fans. ultimately you work for all of them and that's how i look at this job. i look at this job as i have a responsibility to each one of them to make sure we secure this game for the future, that we put the best product on the field, and our game continues to grow in a way that i think people are proud of. so, the thing i'm most proud of is not just the quality of the game, but the fact that the nfl has become the big tent that brings people together. ultimately, i think it's one of the few things that does bring people together in today's society. the policies and the rules of the league are paramount. if there are violations, you deal with that. discipline, whether it's fines and or suspensions.

♪ david: the nfl and other major sports have had problems getting minority owners to be majority owners. in other words, minorities very often don't have the money in our society to pay $6 billion for a team. how do you try to address that problem of getting people who are minorities in our society to become owners or minority owners in the nfl? roger: i think a lot of times there are principal owners, the majority owner ultimately starts as a limited owner. we have several examples of that. in 2022, i recommended to the membership that we state publicly, as well as to every potential owner, that we welcome a diverse set of ownership, and that everyone should look at that, whether it's people of color or whether it's women.

we want to make sure we have a diverse ownership group that will make a stronger, make us better also, and we passed that. and since then, every ownership group has become more diverse. not only the ones that have changed hands but also in limited positions. i think our ownership has taken this very seriously and i think we are stronger for it today. david: do you go to the city of the super bowl the week of the game? do you stay the whole week there? roger: yes, i'm usually there sometime on monday. ♪

david: when you are a sports fan, one of the pleasures of being a sports fan is you get to root for your team but you can't root for anybody i assume. right? roger: i always say, i root for the team that's behind, and the officials. david: how many games you typically go to in a year? roger: roughly 25 to 30. david: when you go to a game, everybody is watching you. when somebody does a great play, you can't jump up and say great because you are rooting for one team when you do that. how do you sit there passively watching games? roger: i'm ok rooting for a great play because that's what we love to see. that's one of the things people come for. the great play. i don't root for a specific team. david: you ever go in the locker rooms and talk to the players, see the players or do you try to

avoid that? roger: i try to see them probably well before the game. when you are getting ready for a football game and you are in the locker room, the last person you want to see is the commissioner. so i choose carefully when i see them, but i spend a lot of time talking and communicating with the players. i think it's important to understand their perspective. they are incredibly smart and passionate about the game and have a really important perspective that is important for us to hear. david: on the commissioner, when you are dealing with players, is it awkward to fine them and sometimes you have to deal with tom brady and the famous deflategate issue. roger: the policies and the rules of the league are paramount. whether it's an owner, whether a club executive, whether a player, whether a coach, if there are violations, you deal with that. it's discipline. whether that's fines and/or

suspensions. ultimately, it's importantly that you be thoughtful on that. it's not my favorite part of my job and thankfully it's a small part of my job and when i first came into this position, it was clear that we needed to make some changes with respect to enforcement of our policies. particularly off the field, because they reflect on every single player or every single coach or every single club. and our fans. so we wanted to raise that bar and we wanted to make sure the great people who play this game, coach this game, involved with this game, were meeting the highest possible standards on and off the field. david: would you recommend to people that they aspire to become commissioner because it's such a great job or you say, not for another 10 years or so should somebody want to be commissioner? roger: no, i encourage it. i have met several people, but, listen, there is a timeframe on how long you do this job and i think, as you said, pete roselle did this 29 years, i am at 19 now. there will be a time when there is needed to be a change in the

best interest to the nfl and that's important. david: when you were very young you are too young to be presidents of the united states. presidents are in their late 70's these days and you are just 65. you've got a ways to go. you signed a new contract that extends your term through 2027. have you thought about anything past there or it's too early to say? roger: no, i have a full day that takes up a lot of my focus. that's where i keep it. ♪