david: this is my kitchen table and also my filing system. over much of the past three decades i have been an investor. the highest calling of mankind i often thought is private equity. then i started interviewing. i've learned from doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. >> i asked him how much he wanted, he said 250, i said fine, i didn't negotiate and did no due diligence. david: i have something i would like to sell. and how they stay there. you do not feel inadequate? being only the second wealthiest man in the world. is that right? i'm in the headquarters of the national football league right -- where i had a chance to interview the commissioner of the nfl roger goodell who is serving as the 19th commissioner. i had a chance to talk to him about issues like international expansion, popularity, and the fact that private equity firms are now being allowed to invest in the nfl. so today, the nfl is by far the most profitable and largest revenue sports franchise or league in the world. revenue of about $20 billion or

so last year. every team seems to be profitable. the television ratings are very good. what do you think makes the nfl so popular? roger: it always starts with the game, david. i think the game is one of the greatest games if not the greatest game in the world. the competition is extraordinary. the players, the coaching. our games have never been closer in history. i think it brings people together. and it does well on media. i think television experiences are as great as anything in television. i think being in the stadium is better. i think we are fortunate to have a great product. second, the business model. i think we have a tremendous business model. if you look at revenue sharing

and the salary cap, we have something that makes every team competitive. i think that's unusual. they have the finances to be competitive. i think that's an important element that people overlook. i think it's also a statement. you know better than i do. you are a great investor and you know this business better than i do. it's a statement on the potential success going forward. david: you had a number of games overseas in recent years. in fact, you opened up the season in brazil. do you expect to do more overseas games? is that a part of your strategy? roger: it is. we had five last year. we expect to have eight this year which will be the highest we've ever had. our hope would be at some stage to get to 16 games in the next few years. we think we could do that. i think it's an indication of the popularity of our game. every time we take our game to a

new market, the fans go crazy for it. they sold out the tickets in less than 90 minutes. people had a wonderful time. it was the talk of the town. and i think it will be the basis in the excitement and popularity of the game in the market. as well as what we are doing around the world. so we are very excited by it. it's just one element of that strategy. you need to have television. you need to have activity and participation in the sport. flag football is a big part of that. so all of those factors i think will be a very successful formula. david: do you envision having a team that's based overseas? in mexico city or london. roger: we've talked an awful lot about it. and i think there are markets that could without question support an nfl franchise. i think there's a lot of issues with expansion of our league that we have to debate on. additional teams.

we have 32 now. we think that's a really good number for the nfl. but also, i think we would probably look at potentially as building out by divisions as opposed to individual teams. you have a lot of issues with the team that is in europe and having to travel over playing games and teams going back over to europe to play. i think the competitive issue still needs to be worked out. david: all the super bowl's have been held in the united states. do you envision a time when a super bowl will be held in a city not in the united states? roger: we've always i think had super bowl in a city that has a franchise. if we have an international franchise, i see that happening. as we become global, as we have international franchises, that would be logical. david: let's talk about the franchises.

recently, a team was sold for $6 billion about a year ago or so. washington commanders for a price that nobody had ever thought a sports franchise in the united states would reach. $6 billion. were you surprised the price was that high? roger: no. i think, one, that's a franchise growing up in washington i probably have deeper emotional feelings for. but it's a franchise integrate -- in a great market. and we believe that it's going to be a tremendous success there. i think josh harrison is going to do a great job. i'm not surprised that they got to that price. david: recently, the nfl allowed private equity firms including mine to invest in nfl teams in minority stakes of up to 10%. and a number of these have already been done. valuations are above the $6 billion level that the commanders received. i think some of the minority

stake investments are at least $8 billion investment. why did you let the bad guys known as the private equity people into the tent? why have you capped it at 10%? roger: we feel like there are things that you can teach us a little bit about our business. maybe help us think about it differently. as you know, that 10% position is a silent position. we believe very strongly that we like the principal owner approach that we've had for years. so we want to make sure that the controlling owner is the one that makes the decisions on behalf of the club, both at the league level in the club level. david: do you envision a time that the silent wealth fund could get a minority stake in the team? roger: i don't think we will ever allow institutional in a controlling position in the foreseeable future. we feel very strongly about having a principal owner that is there operating the franchise, responsible for that both in the club level as well as the league level.

david: on television, isn't the case that somebody that only subscribes to basic cable can still watch any of his or her teams? home games what are the rules? it's very complicated today. what's the basic role that makes it possible for someone to watch the nfl game there their home team? roger: in the nfl it's as simple as it gets. we are committed to free television for home markets. not just home team but the visiting team. they will get their game on free television. 100%. david: in other words, everybody who wants to watch their home team can watch it on basic television for free. roger: correct. david: so now you have other packages if people want to watch special games. they then sign up for netflix package or something else like that? roger: we have a few games that are on a paid service but we still are close to 90% on free television. for everybody. i think that is something we are

incredibly proud of. i think this has led to the popularity of our game. people can access it. we give them opportunities to see those games. we have a limited number of packages, whether it's espn or netflix or amazon or youtube or espn plus or our own network, where we have i think it is roughly 35 games that are available. those are pay services of some type. they've been incredibly successful. we had a christmas day game with netflix. two games that averaged over 30 million people on a global basis. those audiences are younger. we are seeing that on some of these new services. as you know, the media business is changing. it's our responsibility to make sure we do what's right and in

the best interest of our game. to partner where we can bring more fans into the game. i think we have a nice balance but we are reliant on our original partners. david: what about the taylor swift effect? some people say that taylor swift is bringing more fans in because they want to watch her watch games. other people say that she's getting as much attention as her boyfriend who is a player for one of the teams, the kansas city chiefs. so has that had an impact on the nfl or not that much? roger: i think it has had a positive impact. listen, the most important thing is these people seem to have a wonderful relationship. they are both incredible people. i had the good fortune of getting to know them. we just wish them well. but as far as what it's done, i think it's brought more interest into our game. taylor swift is one of the greatest entertainers in the world today and has a tremendous following. and the fact that she likes football i think intrigues other people and causes them to be interested in the game. that's a good thing.

david: in the united states, the biggest sporting event every year is the super bowl. what is super bowl week like for you? you've got to go to the city and deal with everybody. you have to be polite to everybody. you can't get upset with everything. but is it just a lot of tension that week? do you make the decision on what city you will have the super bowl in and who the entertainment will be? roger: let's start with the selection of it. it usually happens five years out. it's a process we go through to select the super bowl city. the owners ultimately vote on that and select that city. and then our staff works with that city for roughly five years to get ready for the super bowl. super bowl week has gotten bigger. it starts earlier. it now starts on monday night with a big media event. and it's an incredible event that we think is a celebration

of football on a global basis. it's a hard week because you are pushed in a lot of different directions. but i couldn't be more honored or privileged to do it. it's excitement. when we have 200 million people watching the super bowl, which is what the number was, that's an extraordinary impact and an extraordinarily event that you have a lot of responsibilities to pull that off. david: so you get people who say they know you from high school, calling up and asking for super bowl tickets from time to time? roger: i get that a few times a year. ♪

david: you wrote a letter to pete roselle when you were in college asking for an internship in the early 1980's. and he responded i guess positively because you got the internship. have you ever thought in your wildest imaginations what would've happened had he not responded positively and where

you might be today? roger: well, he was kind. i don't know about positive. they get a lot of letters and a lot of interest in becoming an intern. he pushed it off to his executive director. i think it was close to 53 letters later when i got the internship. david: i see. roger: it wasn't an immediate response. it took almost a year before that happened. i have no idea what i would be doing today if i wasn't here at the nfl. david: so you didn't have any idea of doing something important like private equity? roger: those guys are too smart for me, david. david: i doubt that. for people who are watching now and people say, what did he put in his letter that was so persuasive to get an internship at the nfl. what did you say for future people who want to write letters to put in their letter? roger: i have a copy of it over there. i would say it wasn't the letter. i think it was the fact that i

wrote 53 times. at one point the executive director said, if you are ever in new york, come by. i said, i happen to be in new york. he said, can you come by at 8:00. the problem was i was in pittsburgh. i drove all night to get there. i think you just have to take advantage of your opportunities and distinguish yourse some ways. of what you are deeply passionate about. and what you think you can create value for. david: let's talk about your own back on for a moment. where were you born? roger: jamestown, new york. i grew up in washington d.c. though. david: what did your parents do? roger: my mother was a nurse. my father was a politician. david: he was a congressman who

was appointed by nelson rockefeller to succeed the assassinated robert f. kennedy and he became a senator. is that right? roger: 1968. david: your family moved to washington? roger: we moved there in 1959 when i was born so he could serve in congress. david: people may not remember this, but your father was very famous because he was appointed as a moderate republican and then he opposed the war in vietnam under richard nixon. that became very difficult for him politically because many republicans at that time wanted to support richard nixon and didn't feel that a republican who opposed the vietnam war was a good republican. was that difficult for you? were you proud of what your father had done at the time? many people who were younger were against the vietnam war. roger: i couldn't be prouder of my father and the courage it took for him to do something that he knew was the right thing to do. it wasn't popular.

and he knew at the time that he would likely lose his seat and lose the election. but he did it anyhow. and i think when we were young, he actually gathered us around. well i'm one of five boys. with my mother and father. and said, i'm going to do this but i will likely lose the election. but that was a lesson that stays with me to this day. you have to do the right things, regardless of the consequences. david: going back to your growing up. so you grew up in washington but then you moved back to new york. roger: after he lost the election. brockville, new york. david: then you went to high school in bronxville. you were a three sport star. you were in football, basketball, baseball. and the captain of all three of those teams at your high school. you went to washington jefferson college in pennsylvania. roger: yes. david: when you graduated, you wrote your famous letter to the

nfl. what were you doing when you were waiting to hear back from the nfl? were you working in a mcdonald's or something like that? roger: i wasn't. i took sometime after the summer after i graduated. i focused on what i wanted to do. i eventually because i did not hear back from the nfl in a positive way until february of the year after i graduated, i worked in the steel industry briefly. it was a good experience for me. i managed a training program. david: eventually you get the job at the nfl. you work for them. the commissioner was pete roselle who was the longest-serving commissioner. you are the second-longest serving. is that right? roger: that might be true. i hadn't thought about that. david: pete roselle became commissioner when he was only 33 years old. when the afl and nfl came together. what were you doing in the early years? roger: i was an intern in the public relations department. so i did a little bit of

everything. i guess maybe my two big breaks were the jets who needed an intern late in the preseason. they asked if i wanted to go over and do that. and so i had a chance to be with the jets for one season. and it was a remarkable experience for me. to be on the club level and understand what they go through. it's different than what we do at the league level. it was incredibly valuable experience. but i went back after the season. i was actually asked by one of the coaches, the defensive coordinator, just stay and be an assistant coach. i decided i wanted to go back to the nfl. even though i didn't really have an opportunity there. i was another intern for a year and a half. i thought, this is the right thing and what i wanted to do. pete roselle was a hero of mine and i wanted to work for him. i thought the nfl played a really important role in society and had a great future. david: if you thought that you could one day have become a football coach at the nfl?

roger: i could have. i probably wouldn't be with the jets anymore. their tenure doesn't last long. i think i made the right choice. david: in 2006, you became the commissioner. now people are probably wondering, what does the commissioner actually do? it is a great title, the commissioner, but it's an awkward position in the sense that you are employed by the owners but you have to sometimes penalize your employers if they do something wrong. you have to fine them and sometimes they are not happy with you. how does that work when you have to please the people who are your employers? but also sometimes you have to fine them? roger: i always say, just don't get 24 owners in one day -- off at you. that's one thing. i think the real issue here is, yes, you are hired by the owners. they select you. but i think the commissioners ultimate role is to protect the integrity of the game. to grow the game. that happens by balancing a lot of interests including players

and coaches and owners. and partners. and the general public and our fans. ultimately, you work for all of them. that's how i look at this job. i look at this job as i have a responsibility to each one of them to make sure that we secure this game for the future. that we put the best product on the field. and that our game continues to grow in a way that i think people are proud of. the thing i'm most proud of is not just the quality of the game but the fact that the nfl has become the big tent that brings people together. ultimately, i think it's one of the few things that does bring people together in society. the policies and the rules of the league are paramount. if there are violations, you deal with that with discipline. whether that's fines or suspensions. ♪

david: the nfl has had problems getting minority owners. minorities often don't have the money in our society to pay $6 billion for a team. how do you try to address that problem of getting people who are minorities in our society to become minority owners in the nfl? roger: i think a lot of times, our principal owners, the majority owner ultimately starts as a limited owner. we have several examples of that. in 2022, i recommended to the membership that we state publicly as well as to every potential owner that we welcome diverse sets of ownership. and that everyone should look at that. whether it's people of color or women. we want to make sure that we have a diverse ownership group

that will make us stronger, better also. we passed that. since then, every ownership group has become more diverse. not only the ones that have changed hands but also limited positions. i think our ownership has taken this very seriously. i think we are stronger for it today. david: do you go to the city of the super bowl of the week before the game? do you spend the whole week there? roger: i'm usually there by sometime on monday. ♪

david: when you are a sports fan, one of the pleasures of being a sports fan is that you get to root for your team. but you can't root for anybody. roger: i always say, i root for the team that is behind and the officials. david: how many games do you typically go to in a year? roger: 25 to 30. david: everyone is watching you. when somebody does a great play, you cannot jump up and say great because you are rooting for one team if you do that. how do you sit there passively watching a game? roger: i'm ok with rooting for a great play because that's what we love to see. that's one of the things people come for. the great play. i don't root for a specific team. david: do you ever go to the

locker rooms and see the players? roger: i try to see them all before the game. when you're getting ready for a football game and you are in the locker room, the last person you want to see is the commissioner. so i choose carefully when i see them. but i spend a long time talking and communicating with players. i think it's important to understand the perspective. they are incredibly smart and passionate about the game and have a really important perspective that's important for us to hear. david: on the commissioner, when you're dealing with players, you have to fine them sometimes. is that awkward? do you sometimes have to deal with tom brady and the famous deflategate issue? roger: the policies and rules of the league are paramount. and so whether it's an owner or a club executive, a player or coach, if there are violations you deal with that with discipline. whether that's fines or suspensions. ultimately, it's important that you be thoughtful on that. it's not my favorite part of the job. and thankfully it's a small part

of my job. but when i first came into this position, it was clear that we needed to make some changes with respect to enforcement of our policies. particularly off the field. because they reflect on every single player or every single coach or every single club. and our fans. we wanted to raise that bar. we wanted to make sure that the great people who play this game, coach this game, are involved in this game were meeting the highest possible standards on and off the field. david: so would you recommend to people that they aspire to become commissioner because it is such a great job? or not for another 10 years or so? roger: no, i encourage it. as a matter of fact, i have met several people. listen, there's a timeframe on how long you do this job. as you said, pete roselle did this 29 years. i am 19 now. there will be a time when it's needed to be a change that's in the best interest of the nfl.

that's an important thing. david: when you were young, you worry too young to be president of the united states. they are in their late 70's these days. you are 65 i guess. you've got a ways to go. you signed a new contract that extend your terms are 2027. have you thought about anything past their? roger: i have a full day that takes up a lot of my focus and thoughts. that's where i keep it. ♪