>> we are only scratching the

surface and the number of patients we are treating and it takes time to scale to get to many more millions. >> this is the man in charge of europe's most valuable company, novo nordisk and its obesity drugs ozempic and wegovy. both contain the key ingredients and include tide revolutionizing the weight loss market and generating billions in sales. celebrities have helped their popularity soar. sharon osbourne, chelsea handler and elon musk of all pop -- talked about wegovy and they've gotten further backing from oprah winfrey. it has reached millions on social media apps including tiktok. but it's not without controversy including possible side effects, high prices in the lobbying efforts we see with criticism around the world. and in some cases, patients might also need to take the drugs indefinitely to avoid regaining away. chief executive says obesity is

a disease and thinks the company will learn from its growing number of patients. >> when i asked the scientist their priority and mechanism will tell you. my personal view is that we will also learn that patients are much different and there will be different avenues, so we have to look at interventions. francine: on this episode with leaders with laqua i travel to the firm's headquarters in copenhagen, denmark. i asked about the global sensation, how he is navigating the company's meteoric rise in the sweeping changes they could bring across a range of industries. francine: thank you so much for being on bloomberg with us. lars: thank you for having me. in scene: after decades of research novo finds a molecule that changes everything in terms of weight loss drugs. read taken by surprise at the appetite for these drugs and how mainstream they are? lars: i would actually say there

are many surprises when you get a product like that, starts with surprises and innovation because there are many shots being made and most failed. and the winner is often the one that surprises people the most. francine: would he think this surprise or success wasn't expected, did it capture something in society that you are ready for? lars: i think we have seen first, many companies focus on type one diabetes, then because of lifestyle changes, perhaps genetics there was an increase in type 2 diabetes, for many years type 2 diabetes was my intensively treated, then there was the u.k. pdf study that really showed you need to treat type 2 diabetes to prevent comorbidities. in that increase the diabetes market. now we are kind of seeing the same with obesity that for years we felt that perhaps obesity is not a real disease that

something you should treat, but it's now being established that by understanding the underlying causes of obesity, that there's a lot of play, for instance, genetics, but now also innovations that can actually treat the disease, help people reduce weight and prevent comorbidities. i think it's a repeat in a way with what happen with type 2 diabetes, and then it suddenly opens the market that turns out to be way bigger than the diabetes. francine: how difficult is it to have a lifelong treatment and how do you see that changing? lars: i think we are yet to learn how patient treatment will be different. some will be on lifelong treatment, some will have progressive obesity that will put more and more weight on, and they will need more and more efficacious medicine. but there were also be some where they are on treatment for some time and it prevents them,

and they will have a different trajectory. i don't think we have seen much of this yet. when i asked the scientist, i'm not a scientist myself, they say priority and mechanism will tell you that it's treatment. my personal view is that we are also here to learn that patients are much different and there will be different avenues, so we will have to build a portfolio of interventions, lifestyle will also play into it for some of them, and i think we can help many patients get down to a weight that they can maintain and live the life they want to live and avoid many comorbidities. francine: we also heard from food companies such as chief executives of some of the big groups are having crisis talks and does this mean that there's going to be a wider adoption of these drugs, doesn't mean people are going to eat and drink 30% less? do you see it really changing our societies? lars: i think there will be many changes, but with that also comes opportunities. there will perhaps be a

different preference for snacking. so i think that we still need to eat, so may be less of the unhealthy snacking on preference for more of the healthy stuff. so i think for companies, it's also about following the trend in the volume of business and moving to where the market is. and i think there probably is 80/20 perspective, the medial aspect is that you will have a few patients who are really heavy consumers, and if those start of treatment, i think they will have a relative bigger impact on some of these companies. but i would say i think it's a bit hyped when we see the reactions we see because we are only scratching the surface and the number of patients we are treating at it takes quite some time to scale in manufacturing to get to many more millions of patients. francine: hollywood has also adopted your weight loss drugs, is that a good or a bad thing?

lars: we have a situation where social media is filled with communication on our product and that's completely new for us. we are focused on educating physicians, in most countries we cannot do direct consumer advertisement, in all countries it's really important for us to get them to understand which products are approved for type 2 diabetes, which are approved for obesity, what's a mechanism and how should they be used. will he see data from insurance companies, etc. we can see the profile of those who use our medicines, we could see on average people with very high bmi, well above 30, so there is the approved labels that we feel comfortable about that it is people are in need of medical intervention to treat serious obesity situations. francine: but you have become such a phenomenon. they are memes and it's all over

social media and some are saying the problem with this is that it could lead to more eating disorders. and this is probably because of the increase in social media. what do pharma companies do, can they do anything to kind of balances? lars: i think we have spent some time on understanding what is this mean, what's the breath of it and we have come to realize that we cannot control social media. we try to be present and get our medicine in. but our medicine takes physicians writing a script, so we are really focused on the physicians to make sure they understand what are the mechanisms, who are the appropriate patients. in then i think we have to also trust the physicians do what's right for their patient and they should for sure not prescribed for people living with an eating disorder. francine: coming up i asked about criticism the company has

faced over its prices, with some analysts predicting the weight loss drug industry could be worth $150 billion a year. ♪ ♪ this looks bad, harris. we're probably going to have to amputate. what?! i'll get some 3d images to see how bad it really is. i don't care how many ds you use, his career's over! relax, coach. there's no tear. he'll be fine. amazing. innovation changes everything. what about bobby? no. with one investment, you can access the nasdaq-100 innovators who are rethinking the world. before investing, carefully read and consider fund investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and more in prospectus at invesco.com

francine: globally more than one billion people are thought to be obese. it's a crucial market for weight loss drug makers like novo nordisk, but challenges remain, the company's patents expire in the u.s. and the eu at the end of the next decade in rival drugs are already emerging, like set down by eli lilly. i asked the chief executive about regulatory pressures and future growth. so how do you think about pricing? he must've gotten some difficult questions from governments, but also this goes back to innovation. lars: most products are priced according to the value they bring and i feel really good about the value of our medicines

and what they bring but also the value to the health care system. we have today, health care systems around the world who were typically designed for acute care, but finding that in the health care system is linked to chronic -- and we have portfolio products that are really addressing some of the chronic diseases of our day and age. diabetes, obesity and the comorbidities that follows that. then knows that there are protections that say, by 2035, the world obesity federation predicts that the cost burden to society would be $4 trillion of people living with obesity. and that is going to be taken up by health care systems who are already starting today by aging populations. shortage of labor and a lot left

in health care systems during the pandemic or after the pandemic. so what is actually the value of the medicine we have, and if you invest in that, yes, there's a cost of front, maybe we can discuss how we deal with that, but there is a tremendous value in terms of preventing costs and keeping people out of the hospital. francine: the price would probably go down if it does we know eli lilly could be a competitor. when prices are high in cash is coming in, is that how you view it? clicks to put a bit of color around it, the same forecast predicts that there will be a billion people living with obesity.

in most markets when you get more competition and also over time, it moves down because you start treating those who accept the higher price point. in the u.s. that's commercial insurance, that over time you get broader access and you get your patients paying a lower price. so, if you just take our leading diabetes product in the u.s. since launch, in 2018 the price we get after rebates, discount, etc., is some 40% lower than what we launch. that's often not mentioned. instead, the list price is mentioned, which is not actually what we put in our account because it's after rebates. francine, the u.s. is such a large market, would you delist or change to the u.s.? lars: that's unlikely. we are controlled by a foundation that's anchored in

denmark. we have a lot of footprint in denmark, having said that, we do invest and expend a lot globally. most of what we sell in the u.s. we also produce in the u.s. in many aspects we are as much a u.s. company as we are danish company. or per headquarters based in denmark for the foreseeable future. francine: you think of denmark and you think of novo because of the size of revenues, which is i think bigger than gdp, is that uncomfortable? lars: their perspective should be corrected because of this perspective of market cap with danish gdp and the gdp is an economic flow metrics for the flow in the market cap is the total value of company. i'm sure if we impair the market cap of novo in with everything in denmark, we would be tiny. but there's also the point of

what will our expansions, one our 30,000 in denmark, huge capex investment, we are fueling the gdp growth, and its you know we take that quite seriously. so, the jobs we create, i don't think will disappear again. and, now we talk about expanding in the u.s., it doesn't come from moving activities, its growth in the u.s., we would be careful and respectful and how we grow so we could do that in a sustainable way. francine: that's also increasing supply with factories. lars, we've made huge investments. these are billion dollar commitments per year and it takes for-five years to build some of these facilities and we get started already years back,

so we have more and more lines kicking in on an outgoing basis, but some of them will also be kicking in in the future. francine: are you also looking for acquisitions? lars: yes, we are, we are in a unique situation that most of the products we have came from our in house on the efforts, which is a bit unusual compared to some of our peers. and we expect to carry on with that, but we can also see that we can complement that. so specifically, it would be early-stage where they have great science, we have the understanding and the infrastructure, so we can express that science in a better way than they could do on their own. so merging makes a perfect marriage and some pick up than what each can do on their own. francine: our pharma companies having a harder time after covid? there seems to have been an explosion of not trusting pharmaceutical companies,

vaccines being questioned, have you felt any backlash? lars: yes, and for me, that's a really sad situation to be in because had it not been for some of the very innovative small biotech city came out with vaccines and then teaming up with some of the largest forces of our industry to, in record time, get approval and scaling manufacturing, i think the world would have looked much different today. and out of respect for some that do not like vaccines, but a majority of us have enough. that led to a debate about our patents really needed -- our patents really needed. we had the ability to pass in innovation. there's not going to be an innovation so there will be no new products. so i think there's something about inequality, how we distribute the products and

honestly, i think a lot of the companies ended up grabbing products at developing countries that did not get access that then leads to a debate where vip is a great way to go. but that for me is the wrong discussion. we have to figure out how can we show a way where we acknowledge the whole world needs the benefit in a fair way. but if you take the incentive away from innovation, we all will -- francine: he tells me about his leadership style at the helm of europe's most valuable company. ♪

francine: the market value of novo nordisk is bigger than the danish economy and its philanthropic foundation is now the world's largest with more than double the assets of the gates foundation. i asked lars how he handles the company success in his approach to corporate culture. are you enjoying success or with it does it also bring a lot of responsibility? lars: i took over ceo at a time when you have been cut by 40%. we were in no growth, no single digit growth, and it's much harder to invest in the business, do things you want to

do compared to today. so i enjoyed that. but obviously it also comes with many challenges about how to sustain the success of the company. francine: what kind of leader are you or what kind of leader which her employees say you are? lars: you should ask them, i hope they would say that i am authentic, i'm relatively easy to read. i would also hope they say that i'm curious because i'm not a specialist in anything, but i have found that there has not been yet a problem in the company we can solve if we actually mobilize the great people. so, i'm born with a big nose and big ears and i use the attributes of that each and every day to collect opinions from the company. and then it's my role to combine

it into an opinion together with my team and make sure that we make the right choice. francine: so it is a perfect leader in 2024 need to be a visionary or problem solver? lars: i would say that if i have to solve the problems, it's a problem. because, an example, when covid-19 arrived, we decided to close down the offices, we kept manufacturing in laboratories running and we all went home. and what you do, you need to establish a crisis response team to deal with that. so the first decision i made was, i should not be part of it. francine: why? lars: i was out of the loop for a couple of days i knew if i put myself into that i would become the bottleneck in the company and the company would somehow have lost its ceo. so i asked our cfo to chair

that, and that i could still be there for everybody and people come to me and check in and i could try to get a view for what are other companies doing, what's happening, and give some input, so if this ceo turns into the problem-solving of the company, i think the company needs another co. francine: have you changed as a co? lars: i believe i have. when i was promoted, i took a step up in the team, so i went from overnight being colleague to leader of the team. and i think they would tell me today that they would have like me may be to act like the boss. but for me it was not natural to just say, be bossy after one night. so, i think i've been growing into the role, and i feel more comfortable today and actually

listing to my gut, which is a combination of your own feelings, but also your experiences, and earlier, say what i believe in, and that creates clarity for an organization with more than 60,000 people. francine: saturday mornings, i understand you have off. lars: yeah. saturdays is always a day where i powered down, so i run a relative high pace throughout the week, try to wrap things up, and saturday is a quiet day for me in terms of work. i start activity by playing tennis with my wife, and we go for a swim all year round. after that, have a nice lunch, then i'm on to a good trajectory for the week, and then sunday i tried to prepare for the coming weeks, but through a weekend that i would send either no emails or very few emails because i want to drive a

culture where all gets an opportunity to spend the weekend as they fancy. i think what we do is so difficult and it takes so much creative thinking to succeed that if you're always on, always busy, the bandwidth of your reflection is just too narrow. and i generally believe that monday morning some a better leader than i am say, friday afternoon. i take all my vacations. i believe him a much better co right after vacation there before vacation. francine: what's your best piece of advice you've ever received and what's the worst piece of advice you've ever received? lars: the best advice would probably be, give people a fair chance to succeed, and most can actually do much better than they believe themselves. perhaps also you believe based on short-term performance.

so, trust people and give them what is needed to succeed. you will see people succeeding. the worst piece would be something that was influenced by politics or his spinning facts. i am hyper allergic to politics and when you try to take advantage of a position. so, i've had one experienced during my career where i give my resignation because somebody, a close colleague actually completely twisted some facts. we had just agreed to approach. they were met with the shared thought in my colleague turned around. so integrity is so holy for me that if people play tricks, it's not my game whatsoever. so, i just say ok, i'm out of

here. we still stayed. so any advice that is not based on honesty, decency and following the facts, i have a hard time with. francine: thank you so much for your time today. ♪

>> good morning and welcome back. you are watching the china show. hstech about half an hour into the session. it looked like we were starting off with momentum. that has corrected itself. the level to watch for the correction is 5494. dave, you are right. i did not have this on my bingo card this week. i was skeptical because we have had a choppy week, higher, lower, higher, lower. david: we were thinking it could have been earnings. what we have seen mostly -- not in all cases -- tencent, for example. we are waiting for april and what that looks like and who knows what else we could hear ahead of april 2.