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as global stock markets rally across the world and the u.s. dow jones cross 9100 today, a very important and surprising benchmark. something good is happening out there. this is an optimistic story. this is a bullish story. and yes, i absolutely share it. there are a lot of reasons in washington, in corporate board rooms, in corner executive suites from ceos and cfos makin tough decisions. but all i'll say is this as a

generic point, around the world, free market capitalism looks like it is repairing itself after the very difficult downturn we have experienced. that's what it does. it repairs itself. that is, if politicians would just let it work. i'm larry kudlow from ""the kudlow report,"" i'm going to turn it over to my great pal, dennis kneale. what you got cooking? >> thanks, larry. it's not just in corporate board rooms, also in people's hearts we're feeling better and that's part of the story. thanks a lot. have a great night "cnbc reports" starts right now. tonight, don't let the numbers fool you. it was a big day on wall street. a lot happening on the floor, a lot happening tonight, and a lot happening this week. we're still above the 9000 mark as the dow, s&p and nasdaq all rally to close, and finish on an up note. housing bottom. new evidence tonight, the worst is behind us in this critical sector, as new home sales

skyrocketed in the month of june. health care fight. the republicans may no longer be the biggest obstacle for the president's health care plan. a pack of blue dogs are now filling that role. it is monday, july 27th, and you're getting the real deal with dennis kneale. "cnbc reports" starts right now. >> good evening. i'm dennis kneale. this recession is over! i predicted that one month ago. and today, a key piece of new data came into second that motion, and the great thing is, the new evidence comes in housing. and this economy cannot rebound without a comeback in housing. the markets putter around all day, but the surprise is that they actually ended up. the dow up a few points to move north of 9100, hello! the nasdaq held its own just below 2000, and the s&p creeping up to be just 18 points shy of the 1000 mark. but i worry any comeback could get squashed by the anti wall street backlash under way.

look at the new complaints today that the banks aren't lending enough because they're too cautious, and the contradictory complaints they're not cautious enough. and new criticism of citibank pay packages and grips that the banks wouldn't be healing without government assistance. shouldn't we be celebrating that instead of lamenting it? let's break it down with the real deal with dennis kneale. a deluge of economic data, and it makes it clear. this recovery is now under way. if you don't like hearing it from me, pick up the new issue of "newsweek" magazine, take a look at that cover, folks. that's a party balloon celebrating it. and it says not only is the recession over, now let's debate what kind of recovery this will be. that's a nice luxury to have. when i declared recession over on june 25th, almost nobody agreed. i held up a big high-five, and the rest of the media left me hanging. now we have moved on to the next point of divergence between those who sell hope and those who apply doom.

the extent of the recovery. everybody else says it's going to be tepid and weak. but i'm starting to wonder whether there is a case for a far better rebound than anybody expects. think about it. companies cutting back so swiftly and so deeply, that their earnings are popping right now. you've got demand and inventory so low for months now that there's bound to be a big snap-back, especially in tech. and you've got consumers suddenly increasing their savings rates at a surprising rate after years of racking up credit card debt and home equity loans. the better their balance sheets get, the freer they will be to start spending again. so let's look at the housing data that came in today. all right. we've got new home sales came in with a surprise. they were up 11% from may to june. and that is the third month in a row. a little tiny increase here. and then this is really a surprise. up 11%. the market thought it was going to be up maybe 2% so now running at 384,000 homes sold per year.

that's the third straight month of increases, nice thing to see, isn't it? and now comes the to be sure. to be sure, new home sales still running way below year-ago sales. down 21% versus june of 2008. do we have that? yep, you see june 2008, a much higher rate than here. so they're down 20% or so. but you know what? i'll take it. one reason that new home sales are off still from a year ago is that foreclosures on existing homes have thrust a large numbers of homes on to the market at fire sale prices that cuts into sales of new homes. in fact, sales of existing homes as opposed to newly built homes account for 85% of the housing market. let's take a look at existing homes and remember they have been up as well from may to june. may was up 1.9% from this month. up three months in a row, as well, up almost 4% this month from the previous month. so the news is good there, as well. now, why don't we talk to a real expert on this. because i get to talk about how i feel about things. but diana olick covers the real

estate market for cnbc, and she's got a look at those facts. diana, that's my evidence. what do you think? >> well, dennis, i hate to burst your "newsweek" balloon there, but you made the strongest argument against your point in your own report when you said  foreclosures thrust a large number of existing homes of fir sales back on to the market. yes, that cuts into new home sales because they compete directly with foreclosures. foreclosures are, in fact, some new construction. the other thing you've got is the activity in the market. these existing home sales that you do see bump up are all on the lower end of the market. they are all distressed properties. the bulk of them are under $200,000. is it good that investors are getting in there? yes, you've got to get in there and clean up the mess somewhere. but we're not seeing the organic recovery that is the normal home recovery of step-up buyers and the higher-price -- even mid level. not until those foreclosure numbers are coming down. >> of course we're not seeing that normal step-up, because let's face it, this is anything but a normal downturn in housing. this has been truly historic.

but housing sales going up from one month to the next by 11%. >> let me touch that 11%. >> still nonetheless good news. >> it's good news, dennis -- but you say you're all about emotions, i'm all about the numbers. 11% sounds like a big jump. and it is. but you have to think about the volumes we are talking about here. you're talking about an annualized rate of 384,000  units. well, during the peak of the housing boom, we were looking at a rate of 1.4 million units. >> but the peak of the housing boom was a bad thing. we didn't like that. this is a better stable market. >> let me give you numbers to think about, dennis. in may, builders sold 33,000 homes. in had june, they sold 36,000  homes. that is a jump up of exactly 3,000 homes. every day in america, 10,000 properties receive a foreclosure notice. every day. so that's a 3,000 home bump up in a month every day. 10,000 more problem properties could go back on to the market. just numbers. >> you know what? it's just numbers. but the numbers are getting

better. >> they're getting better. they're at least going up instead of down. i'm with you on that. the recovery is at hand. it's a question of how long is it going to take, and how long is it going to be as we bump along the bottom. >> i'm going to declare victory and bail out of that one there. because you heard it, diana olick. our chief expert on housing. i'm going to trunk ate that quote and take it out of context. thank you very much, diana. and do not miss us tomorrow night on "cnbc reports" at 8:00, have we hit a housing bottom. david tice is with us and the ever-bullish bill paulson and steven staller of staller investment group and tom lieden, another bull, and cnbc's rick santelli. where should we start, gentlemen? who wants to start us off? i think this housing -- these housing numbers, despite what diana olick says, i think it's good news. >> what do you think? >> i think we've -- >> i'll jump in here, dennis. as diana said very succinctly,

the numbers are the numbers. and the emotion might be there. we all want this economy to get better. i mean, i want my daughters to have a better future, et cetera. you know, i don't go home and kick puppies, dennis, as you have accused me of. however, i do believe this market, people buy more homes in june than they do in may. and unfortunately, we've lost 9 million jobs in this decline so far, and people are hurting out there. and as much as people try to think, okay, the market is up over 9100, and we have to think optimistically, hope is not a strategy. >> but james paulson, on the other hand, is it the worst of the job layoffs probably behind us? >> i think so. most of the data suggests that, dennis. if you look at the challenge or layoff announcements, they're back to precrisis levels. initial unemployment claims have been rolling over and coming down for several weeks, both suggesting an improvement in the labor market. but there is no doubt that dave

tice is right, the labor market is in bad shape, close to 10% unemployment rate. but that has never stopped a recovery from happening before. of at the bottom of a recession, there are few sales. there are a few jobs. but that doesn't mean the profit margins start to get better. that doesn't mean that housing starts start to bottom out. that doesn't mean that layoffs start to quit. a lot of the stuff that you see at the bottom of a recession is very evident today, and i think it is building a case that recovery is coming. >> steve staller, you're a bear. how important is a housing rebound to a broader economic rebound? >> well, i think the -- a big portion of these houses that were -- that were just sold, we have to look at the discount those houses were sold at, as well as the fact that there is a bit of a tax incentive right now to buy houses, as well. >> sure. >> so do you think we can keep this going as we move forward? i don't think so. i also think when i buy a house, i buy new appliances. if i can't get the credit i need to get the appliances, i'm not going to buy the appliances.

so therefore, i really don't look at this as a huge indica r indicator. >> you know what? i've got to tell you, james paulson, if i can get the credit to buy a house, call me crazy, but i think i'm going to be able to get credit to buy appliances. credit card rates are 20%, banks are dying to give me credit at that rate, aren't they? >> there is some of that. there is some evidence that lending is picking up, as well. but i would like to make another point. i would like to make the point that, you know, it's true that a lot of these things are being helped with subsidies from the government stimulus and low rates. things that aren't sustainable. but guess what? when they're no longer needed, we'll also have job creation back. and some private income generation back. in other words, the state of the household will also improve here with the lag response to some of these policies so that we won't need some of the current support we have underneath this. >> rick santelli, you're not a fan of government bailouts and government help, that's for sure. and yet once the government help starts to actually help companies get back on their feet, why should we be upset

about it? if home sales are being helped by these one-time first time credits, it means government policy is working for a change. >> because, you know, when we talk about recessions and we talk about this one having all of the pieces in if place, based on the past, to show recovery, we're forgetting one thing. other than the 1930s, past recessions didn't have this government involvement. and all of the medicine actually inhibits the healing. if you're trying to slow the drop in prices, if you're trying to put a parachute on it with government money, you're going to create debt. and the only thing that's going to fix the housing market is to have the prices go down to a level where there is affordability. i am more optimistic, but i think in the end, having less layoffs in a business arena, where government involvement rules in subsidies isn't shown in a clear exit strategy, it's going to be a long time before we have the gdp horsepower take to offset some of the deficits that we have created. >> all right. well, thanks very much, rick. and as for housing affordability, we're heading toward it.

we're hurdling toward it. prices down 20% from a year ago. after the break, tom lyden, you're up first. earnings and corporate bonds. don't yahn when i say bonds. they can make you a lot of money right now. plus, wait until you can see what can happen to elective surgery like botox if the democrats pass their health care plan. we're back in two. (announcer) take your time to find the right time

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♪ all right. a sideways market finishes the dayum. the dow breaking through 9100, holding on to last week's big gains. let's bring back our bulls and bears. let's start with tom lyden of etf trends.com. tom, the thing about these bears

is when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. and when you're a bear, preachy and pessimism, i think looks like a crisis. aren't they missing a fundamental turn in the economy right now? >> absolutely. and i am happy to be part of your bull fest. as we hit the midpoint earnings better than expected. but the last couple days, friday, today, how resilient investors were. with $4 trillion sitting on the sidelines, there is nothing holding them back. >> right. you know, david tice, i've been reading your stuff a long time. and you've always been cranky. you've always been bearish, that's how you make your money. but i want to know. i mean, look at all of the data coming in. this economy is turning around, isn't it? it's going to be harder and harder for you to pick your shots for where you're going make money on people's misery, isn't it? >> let me tell you, dennis. i certainly don't want there to be misery. but i want people to be realistic about things. and i don't want to see people sink all their money into stocks

and then lose it. it's not patriotic to lose your money. and yes, we have been bearish, up 8 to 9% a year for years while the market has been flat. and we have essentially prepared investors for this bubble, and we have essentially faced rolling bubbles over the last ten years. we went from one bubble to the next to get us out of this, and it's just created more and more pain. and unfortunately, we're doing more of the same. >> yeah, but a lot of the bears meanwhile, stocks are up 40% since march 9th and the bears have missed out on all of that. and that's painful too. let's go to james paulson at wells capital management. you know, james, look at those verizon numbers today, earnings numbers. now, they look bad at first glance, down 21% from a year ago. but my gosh, verizon added 1.1 new customers in the corner. revenues up 11%. i think those are good numbers. >> i do, too, dennis. i'm rather surprised there's been such an outcry about the lack of sales. and yet we have had a tremendously good earnings

season. today's earnings where you actually got sales as well. but i find it curious, because at the bottom of a recession is where we're at, why would anyone expect there would be a lot of good sales news? the way you get out of recessions in this an earnings front is margins typically start to widen first without sales, and then the sales come on wider margins. and i think that's exactly what we're doing this time around. verizon is even a step ahead of that, with both better operating performance and continued sales growth. so -- >> yeah. >> it's hard to not be impressed with this earnings season, and a quarter of it has supposed to be negative growth. >> steven staller, the bear, what is it with you guys, a revenue growth may not be great, but make it up on volume? why can't you be happy about earnings, steven? >> i'm not complaining about the earnings. i just wonder when we're going to hear the knife hit the bone. we're cutting off these expenses to show some cash flow. more important to me, and the investors that i know, they're tired of this stopping and starting and stopping and starting. so i would rather be a little

lit bit more reserved, you might say, and look for cash flow waiting for a sustainable growth period. >> you know, over the next three or four years, gentlemen, why -- if you had to tell me i need to invest in certain sectors because the next three or four years, the consumer is going to make a positive difference to the magnitude that these entities will start hiring versus pairing, as we have talked about, maybe taking away some of the fat, and dealing with what was too pessimistic of a view, and a managed earnings setting, do you think we're going to see 2.5 to 3% gdp any time soon? that's the real question for longevity and equity investing. >> and isn't the answer absolutely we're going to see real 3% gdp growth, guys? we'll see that by 2010 or 2011, won't we? let me hear from a bull. >> absolutely. i think we'll see it next year sometime, and not only that, we have opportunities here in the u.s. with specific sectors. but, boy, gentlemen, we've got to look overseas. i mean, when you look at

emerging markets, they're going through the roof. so people are looking to make money. you don't have to look at areas like housing or financials. the largest -- almost one of the largest emerging market etfs is over $31 billion. it's now number four out of all of the etfs available. so, folks, we can't just look at housing. we can't look at financials. we've got to pick our spots. >> right. all right. thank you very much, fellas. we're going to get back to most of you as we pick some winners, and we're going to get you some names, free of charge. up next, is goldman sachs evil? no. is $100 million for a bonus too much? no. is $30 million, is $10 million, 100,000? i don't want governments to decide that. but apparently government wants to play a role. the obama administration thinks it gets to. we're going to yell and scream in an orderly fashion about that in two. announcer: welcome to the now network. currently, thousands of people

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going to lift the veil on wall street's most despised giant, goldman sachs. you know, the chief of staff there rarely gives interviews, so john rodgers spoke to new york magazine's joe hagen and wrote about it in "new york" magazine, heand joe is with us tonight. thanks for being with us. so answer your own headline. is goldman evil? >> well, i wouldn't say they're evil. i would say they're extremely self-interested. and some people would say to the point where, you know, their success is not always legitimate. and i think the people questioning how they make money, and whether they -- you know, obviously exploited taxpayers' largess in the last year really gets to the heart of that question. >> not always ledge ma. it sounds like you're saying is it illegal. and yet i've got to tell you in the obama administration the way they bash wall street, if they so much as spit on the sidewalk

on a sunday they would get arrested for it. what do you mean, not legitimate? >> well, people wonder whether or not their claim they never needed government aid is actually true. and whether all of the, you know, incredible profits they've made in the last six months weren't in some way part of -- made because of taxpayers' help, and whether they exploited taxpayers' help. >> yeah, i've looked into that, and pretty much concluded that it really wasn't at all. as much as people are saying, oh, you had the government in clutches and then you went out and increased your risk far more. well, actually, their risk is down by half versus where it was a year ago, right? >> but twice what their competitors are. it's relative to the rest of the market, as you know. so, you know, you've -- maybe you read my article, but it kind of all goes back to what you believe and what is known about aig and the buyout of aig, and whether they -- there was, you know -- >> yeah, i looked into that buyout of aig, and the fact is, gold maman was fully hedged, anf

aig had gone belly-up, goldman had it covered by swaps. the government decided it didn't want aig to go belly up and then we criticized goldman. joe, stay there, because i'm going to write in a couple extra people to beat up on you. >> goldman sachs, bernard whitman is with us, ceo of whitman insight strategies, and greg knapp, radio host, and jack berkman, republican strategist. and leslie marshal, host of her own radio show. jack berkman, don't you just love that goldman sachs? oh, you don't, do you? but i do. go ahead. >> no, i do love goldman. i've got to be honor, i think hagen's article is silly. i wouldn't have done t.a.r.p., t.a.r.p. is stupid. but if t.a.r.p. is out there, why in the world shouldn't goldman sachs take advantage of it? if the federal government is stupid enough to give a trillion and a half away to banks, goldman sachs is a model corporate citizen. i would have taken advantage of

every single nickel i could. >> joe hagen, jack makes a good point. so what, goldman exploited the government programs. shouldn't it? >> well, it depends on what you think about the government's -- you know, who is working in government at the time, and whether they had goldman's interest in mind when they made some of those decisions. >> oh, you know what? this is like a classic print journalism thing, i'm going to put these stocks next to each other and then say interesting, huh? make your case, babe. if you're saying they were favored by government inn appropriately and improperly, then say it! >> are you accusing -- >> i'm sorry, here's the thing. goldman sachs is in business to make money. so if they see ways that they can make more, including taxpayer dollars, of course they're going to do it. i mean, we let them exploit us. if they did. and so -- but the good thing is, hey, they're paying the money back, trying to get out of it, because they realize, holy cow, look at the strings attached and the government is trying to get us to do things we don't want to do. i'm glad they're getting out of

it. >> bernard, wouldn't you like to be a shareholder in a company that maximizes profit to the you will mat extent it can? >> absolutely. and the american people don't really understand what goldman is, what it does, and what it represents. and i think that the down side risk going forward is much greater for a company like citigroup than it is for goldman, because much of main street doesn't really understand what goldman does. but they absolutely do understand what citi does, because tens of millions of americans have retail banking relationships with them, credit cards with them, and when you hear about a company that is about to pay someone $100 million in this environment, i think goldman can sort of get a pass on that. they have repaid their money. citi has not. >> oh, man, leslie. let's bring -- leslie -- >> i don't see goldman getting a pass on anything it does, ever. >> well, it really depends, i guess, how much of -- i guess a

patsy, some would say, that congressman frank wants to make of them. but you think about it right now, dennis, the new axis of evil is iran and north korea and government sax -- i mean, goldman sachs. but quite frankly, you know, i disagree with some of the guys here, because, you know, perception is reality. and the american people's perception is not that they're rich, but it's how they got rich and they look at trading as gambling, just as they do on wall street, rather than lending. >> right -- >> hang on. i've got to move to the next topic. >> and resent -- >> got to move to the next topic, leslie. speaking of getting rich, all right? remember there is a citigroup guy up for a $100 million bonus. check out this "wall street journal" headline. ed the u.s. pay czar is working on renegotiating contracts that he deems too lucrative. the best news for andrew hall, that is citi's top energy trader. he wants the firm to stick to a contract that would net him $100 million a year.

jack, i've got to tell you, god bless him, more power to him. his unit earns 10% of this global company's profits. he earned it. >> dennis, i can't believe we say the pay czar, the pay master. it sounds like stalin's russia or worse. stalin's russia and romania in the '50s had far more financial freedom than wall street has today. and i actually mean that. i know ken feinberg, he's a buddy, known him for 20 years, he's a great tort lawyer but knows less about bank salaries than i do. and that's scary. the fact that he is empowered stalin style toe make these decisions, that's the greatest indictment. >> two-thirds of american people believe, in fact, that any company that took government money to stay afloat should be subject to financial compensation regulation. half of republicans believe this. but the reason people believe -- >> the issue is that the american taxpayer is --

>> the reason people believe that is they don't know the facts. this guy had a contract before the bailout to get this compensation. he's in an independent subsidiary of citigroup. he is making them $660 million. he is not taking any t.a.r.p. money. he is making them money! so why would you want to get rid of the guy? making money -- >> it's about i don't think citi at this point should be trying to sign a check for $100 million. >> it's the law! >> i would strongly advise him to spread that out and reduce the payment. >> any of our -- >> it's between him and his employer, and government should have nothing to say about it. and the thought that there is some guy who knows nothing about wall street who is ordained to tell citi what is allowed to pay is out of line. >> but contract is only worth the paper it's written on. come on, please.

it is the reality. >> joe of "new york" magazine, thank you for being with us. the rest of you stick around. still a lot more ahead tonight on "cnbc reports." our bulls and bears are set to change focus from macro to micro. we're picking winners tonight, naming names. if you want some good, solid experienced investing advice, don't move a muscle. also tonight, why the republicans aren't really the main-sticking point for the president's health care plan. members of his own party are. what are the repercussions, and what it means for every other bit of big-spending legislation on the president's agenda. want the real deal? dennis kneale has it. this is cnbc reports, and we're back in two minutes.

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welcome back to "cnbc reports. "here again is dennis kneale. i'm the lucky one. okay, the dow busts through 9100, amazing. housing showing signs of new life here. so much so, in fact, we are dedicating our entire hour to housing tomorrow night. and then there is amgen's number, the stock up after the

bell. ariel nelson talking health care stocks tonight. ariel, what have you got? >> thanks, dennis. you are absolutely right. amgen blew numbers off the charts, 13 cents a share. up over 3% in the after hours. so why is everyone talking about health care? that's an obvious reason right there. but clearly, health care has been blowing the charts off -- blowing away the rest of the sectors across the board. the sector is up relative to the s&p 500 over the -- since the market peaked. i think it's up -- or down at least half as much as the other sectors. so -- >> the health care stocks would have loss less if it had been notice s&p 500. >> right. and in the last three months, outperformed the s&p, the only sector that has forecast earnings growth this quarter. >> and actually, they're hiring instead of laying off in that sector, right? >> that's right. since the recession started, the entire economy has lost 6.5 million jobs, the health care sector has gained half a million jobs. >> let's look at more health

care numbers. >> amgen, we have 20 health care companies reporting earnings this week. so what i wanted to do is looks at health care companies that are reporting this week that are hitting new highs, that have earnings growth forecast of double digits for next year, have good multiples relative to the industry. and starting tomorrow, the first one we have is teefa. the if news what i'm about to tell you it spans the entire sector. the largest manufacturer of generic drugs in the world, earnings growth of 29%. it's got a multiple of 15. it's looking good for earnings. as far as next in the line in food chain, if you will, you've got -- you make your pills, you've got to actually distribute the pills. mcquestionsan is also, again, looking at 10% earnings growth for next year. good multiple. mckesan has only missed once in the last 16 quarters. >> a couple coming out

wednesday? >> absolutely. so wednesday we have some more. >> clear on that baby. >> first one on the list is med co, hitting circles here for you, dennis. but med cohas 17% earnings growth. >> pharmacy benefit management, isn't it? >> right. so you make the pills, distribute the pills, and manage the claims. >> and with wellpoint, half the price -- >> exactly right. you've got wellpoint and on the bottom of the list is another pbm, as you said, pharmaceutical benefits manager. >> right. >> express grip. so, again, the sector as a whole is looking across the board at growth and -- >> and these guys are reporting on wednesday. >> that's correct. >> okay and for more data on this go to buy the the numbers at cnbc.com. >> and i'm sure they will because you are aerial and know the numbers. where should you be putting your money? let's get the bulls and bears back in here. dan greenhouse is a bear.

james paulson, wells capital management, one of our bulls, and steve staller back with his own firm, bear, and tom lyden of trends.com, a bull. anyone got a health care stock? tom, you see anything etf wise you like? >> there is a handful of health care etfs, but what i would look at is biotech etfs that have been on fire. ticker symbol ibb, you might want to look at those. the tough thing is taking individual health care stocks is dfl for the average investor. you go and buy an etf, you get the diversification and get solid representation in had that sector. >> okay. and james, you're a bullish guy. you look at anything in health care or are you liking tech better? >> i'm not much for health care. i think the uncertainty created by what the government health policy and what's going to come out of that, some of that is ultimately going to be a burden on all parts of the health care industry. also the greater profit leverage elsewhere. >> give us an elsewhere. >> well, i like the industrials

and the materials, dennis, the best. i like the manufacturing sector. i think that we've got the world we're going to restart with a lot of stimulus. we're going to do it with lean and mean manufacturing in this country. we've got a weaker dollar, which is increasing their competitive position. we've got low labor cost, high productivity. a lot of profit leverage here. innings that's going to draw a lot of attention. >> dan greenhouse, the bear. recommend something for us. sell us some hope here, babe. >> unfortunately, i'm not in the hope-selling business. i can say, though, that no matter what your outlook is going to be, i think the materials sector is certainly an area of the economy and the stock market. >> there you go, that's some hope right there, dan. keep going. >> well, i wouldn't say it's hope so much as it is perhaps -- i would hope based on some factual realizations that are going to come to pass in the second half of the year. i think being exposed to middle markets and by extension of that, some of the emerging economies throughout the world, i think it will benefit you from a portfolio standpoint. >> okay, and steve, take it home for us. give us something to buy.

>> certainly, cautious and boring, but i like pipelines that get paid for transporting natural gas, and you get paid a pretty nice cash flow. and i truly believe once the economy starts taking off -- >> give us a name. >> take a look at atlas pipeline, cross techs. all right. we'll do it and it's up to everybody. and it's up to them, not you guys, but at least you gave them extra opinions to research. thanks for being with us. straight ahead, what is ailing health care reform? a pack of blue dogs democrats lining up against it. that's what. when we come back, is it it the right move? and how can the white house strike back, because it will. and a little later tonight, blog you. my chance to hit back after two days of dennis-free tv. we're back in two minutes. i never thought it could happen to me...

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at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. ♪ like bad medicine ♪ bad medicine. that reports tonight that cosmetic surgery will be taxed an additional 10% under the latest new taxes, and they grace the democrats' health plan. keep it on cnbc as we talk health care. it's the meeting of the minds. one of the panelists is doctor james rowhack, president of the american medical association. give a listen. >> it's the one part of medicine that's not regulated by the government, or by an insurer, and it's called cosmetic surgery. it's a direct transaction between the patient and the doctor, the fees are set, the negotiation occurs, it's not paid for. if you look at lasik surgery, technology has gone up, the price last gone down.

and what this highlights is, we don't have a free market in health care. we don't have -- everybody says let the free market work -- there is no free market. there is regulated pricing that removes the negotiation between the patient and the doctor over the service. >> meeting of the minds airs tonight at 9:00 eastern. let's bring in the real deal squad. bernard whitman, ceo of whitman insight strategies, and greg knapp for "washington examiner," and jack burkeman and leslie marshal, host of her own radio show. leslie, he was an awfully silver-haired, silver-tongued doc, and frankly, i agree with him. can obama do anything to save this troubled plan? >> well, i wouldn't say everything he says talks about a troubled plan. or about the president being able to save the plan or not. one of the things they're talking about is taxing an elective surgery, a cosmetic surgery procedure is something that is not necessary to save

one's life. i say this not only as the wife of a physician, a surgeon, but also somebody who co owns a medical center. regarding reformation of this health care, this plan is needed. what plan? there is a senate plan, house plan, division between republicans and democrats on the different plans. i don't hear a plan, dennis. and quite frankly, i don't like -- >> it's between democrats -- jack burkeman, talk about the blue dogs taking health care hostage. >> for the first time in a long time, good republican news. for the first time, president obama is under attack from the right and left. hillary clinton is out of the health care game. i'll make a prediction, you can play back the tape. within 90 days, she will leave the state department, reenter politics, win as governor or senator, and she will primary obama, arguing he betrayed the left on the promise of health care, because obama this fall, whether he likes it or not, to save his presidency --

>> i thought we were discussing facts and opinions and not wishes. >> this is a fantasy of the far right. >> it is a fantasy. >> go ahead, bernard. >> this is actually a fantasy of the far right. here is the issue. your segment earlier talked about how health care sector is starting to drive the economy. i think that raises the issue of cost, and i think one place where obama fell short is by not making the entire health care reform from the beginning around cost controls. the blue dog democrats are now -- >> wait. i disagree with you there. >> and i think it was a huge mistake for the president to not position the entire health care reform from the beginning around cost control. >> here's thing, though. >> said another way -- >> yeah, the thing is, that he wanted it to be about cost, and it's not working. the cbo scored every bill that's out there and they all stink, going to jack up the deficits, jack up the debt.

costs are going to go up, quality is going down, they're going to raise taxes. it's not what he wanted. >> but -- >> you love what that doctor said? >> i agree. >> go ahead. >> said about free markets. because i've been saying it and get yelled at on the show. we don't have a free market for health care. higher health savings accounts, give the tax break to an individual like you give to a business, have a real free market competition across the states and let the patient and doctor work this out instead of calling the doctor a bad guy. >> is there a chance that this plan improves, because of the opposition of the blue dog democrats? >> can't get worse. >> when you just -- you know, i don't care what political party, if they're only caring about their political party, even though i'm a liberal democrat, and not people and health care that needs to be reformed and not just the cost that needs to be reformed. we're going down a very dangerous slope, my friends, because let me tell you, unless you look at every area -- when you have six insurance lobbyists

to every one congressional member, every one senator, that's -- >> so >> that's when you run across -- >> guys, guys, you know what? viewers can't understand you and they hate it and i don't want them to hate it, okay? jack, take it. >> sorry, dennis. let me offer a still bolder, bold philosophy here. there is no problem. i'm a single guy. i pay $300 a month in health insurance, $3,600 a year. if i had a wife and two children which i didn't the bill would be about $14,000. when obama andhe democrats come out and say people pay $14,000 a year in health insurance so what? what does that mean? people will have a bunch of kids and dump the bills on the states and general electric and procter & gamble and corporate america has to pay the bills. here's what i say, there is no health care problem. >> bernard? >> the amount of money that we spend tens of billions of

dollars ompb health care for the uninsured that cost is borne by every single one of us. >> that cost will be born by 1% of us instead of all of us. >> putting it on taxes does not make the costs go down. this is not about republican or democrat. we want all people to have good health care. you have to pay for it. it costs money. one of the reasons it's gone up, we have these great medicines and surgery. people are living better than they ever have. >> where do you get the idea this is a free ride? i pay for medicare. i'm not 65 plus. we are paying. we're paying for the elderly, why shouldn't we pay for the uninsured? what we're doing is not only hurting the economy but we're hurting the true physical actual health of our nation. remember, like in many managed care plans, when you have the quantity of numbers that a physician is seeing go up, the quality goes down.

>> guys we have to leave it there. we've got to wrap it. please, please, let me have some type of authority. thank you very much. much appreciated. next up, after a weekend of bloggers talking smack and going blah, blah, blah, i got a few seconds to smack back. don't move. i'm all fired up. during times like these it seems like the world will never be the same. but there is a light beginning to shine again. the spark began where it always begins. at a restaurant downtown. in a shop on main street. a factory around the corner. entrepreneurs like these are the most powerful force in the economy. they drive change and they'll relentless push their businesses to innovate and connect. as we look to the future, they'll be there ahead of us, lights on, showing us the way forward. this is just the beginning

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mama said home is where the heart is when i left that town ♪ a special "cnbc reports: reality check on real estate." time to buy? time to sell? watch us tomorrow night and now, time for blog you guys. i'm sorry, do you mind if i do a little gloating? my many detractors at the financial blogs hurled a heap of hate in the frantic bid to hurt my feelings, they call me beaker and a tool and idiot, we're up to 35,000 times on that one. they complain i've never been a trader and neither have most of them, they say i have no idea what i'm talking about, nor do they and hurl insults at my giant forehead, my dead squirrel hairdo and my irritating shrill voice, i'm working on it. most of all, though, most of all of this bashing is entirely anonymous because the bloggers lack the stones to take off their masks and say it on the record. yet as personal as it gets this

recent bit stream of venom is caused in part by an idea, my idea that this recession is ending right before our eyes. how dare i sell the hope? when people are still out of work, stocks are still way down from their highs, housing still looks in crisis but since i declared this horrible recession is over on june 25th, the data are on my side, guys and now so is merrill lynch and take a look at the cover of "newsweek" magazine out today, on my side, too. won't the bloggers just go bonkers if i turn out to be right? when i turned out to be right? but i've got a new conspiracy theory for them to check out, psst! the "newsweek" cover story was edited by the woman i married. the woman who may be trying to protect me but also divorced me. have all at it you vile spewing bloggers out there. i'm dennis kneale.&

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