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on the issue of energy markets and limits to trading, i must disagree with with my friend, garriguesler. free markets are always better at pricing oil than regulated

markets ever will be. i say let the market work and let the more traders and so-called speculators and index funds and anybody else, let the market work, not the government regulation. i have to turn it over to my great pal, dennis kneale. good evening, dennis. we just saw home prices rise for the first time in three years. well, so there's no doubt things have gotten better. >> yeah, we know. so tonight, we're moving on to health care. the blue dogs, key democrats that may have been holding up a deal agreed to one. we're on the edge of having national health care there. are still lots of questions about what it will look like, what it will mean for you and your family and what it will mean for your money and the markets. tonight, you're fully covered from health care and pharma stocks to the halls of power on capitol hill where the battle

has just begun. >> it will be a job killer. >> you will probably loose your health insurance and might just lose your job. >> if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor, if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. these folks need to stop scaring everybody. >> the fight rolls on right here right now. this is a special edition of "cnbc reports," the future of american health care. >> good evening, i'm dennis kneale. be afraid, be very afraid of that obama-care plan. the markets today were surprisingly resilient, they fell only a bit despite the big run-up in the past and lukewarm economic data. biggest surprise, stocks held their own despite signs president obama's troubled trillion health care overhaul could gain traction. i'll tell you why in the real deal with dennis kneale. president obama's takeover health care isn't just bad for

the markets, a new poll tonight shows more americans disapprove of his health plan than like it. 46% disapprove and only 41% approve of this thing. you have to wonder how long he will keep pushing it. yet he continues keep pushing this tax happy monstrosity until today he had been thwarted by opposition blue dogs. and they were right. today, they closed in with a compromise with house liberals and now obama-care is back on the front burner. blue dogs won three main concessions and don't amount to much. total costs instead of 1 trillion in 10 years, lowered by $100 billion if you believe we can control costs. second, more small businesses exempt from having to insure workers and third, the centerpiece, a government insurance plan to compete with 1300 private insurers, it would be hobbled somehow so as not to do that. will believe it when i see it.

this nation simply cannot afford this overhaul especially not now and not without cuts in services and choices. the obama posse has been selling a big lie health care costs will go down if we reach out to cover everyone. every time government begins a new medical program guys, the costs soar far beyond all expectations. they don't call it entitlement program for nothing. take a look at these numbers from mike tanner and chris edwards at the cato institute. i will show you these health plans that got passed and what we thought they would pass and what they ended up passing them. first medicare pan, passed in 1965, forecast $9 billion by the year 1990. it would cost that much in the year 1990. what did it turn out to be? it turned out to be actually $67 billion in the year 1990. what is that seven times as high as projected.

medicare hospital subsidy in 1977. and the cost here, $11 billion a year, up 100 fold from 1 wh00 billion a year. look at massachusetts, everyone holds it out as obama-care model. 77% of residents covered. original cost per year supposed to be 725 milli$725 million whe passed it '06, it's going up towards 1 barry bonds. massachusetts health costs rising 12% a year since passing universal coverage. that turns the logic of obama-care right on its head. let's bring in the real deal squad, tanya acker, lawyer and huffing post blogger and the others. greg knapp, let's start with you. what do you think? i think the cost is far out of control and obama has us convinced he will be able to cut

costs. >> the first bills were so bad anything looks better. not a trillion or 2 trillion, $900 billion. party time! it will cost more than mentioned as it always does. taxes up, services down. you look at obama's own words he wants to slow the growth of services not just cost, services. i don't want that in my health care. >> tanya. >> the services he wants to slow are some administrative inefficiencies. these are -- >> that's not it. >> that's a big part of it. >> we will see savings when we get the costs under control. >> and theness to le ness to lt pediatrician wants to get paid for. >> this is what this is about. a lot of folks trying to use this as mechanism to beat up the government. it has nothing to do with that. >> his words.

>> ben ferguson, go ahead. >> let's talk about the god of health care debate here, not obama, not the house democrats, senate or anybody, it's the congressional budget office. not once but twice they've come back and they said this bill will cost too much money and it will not save anybody any money. if i'm listening to the president and what he says, he's saying we all have to sacrifice. why would i sacrifice for something that will not save me money? that's my question and if you can answer it, i will give you my good health care. >> leslie. >> it cracks me up in america, we get upset if a bridge collapses but we don't want to pay taxes to keep the infrastructure strong. >> you didn't answer my question. >> i am answering the question, i'm doing it my way. >> that isn't an answer. go ahead. >> you can't have any ref formation of the health care system when you have to have ref formation of the cost of the

health care system without paying something for it. >> what services will -- >> we'll be keeping you around and able to argue a lot more tonight. we will bring you back in a few minutes. for more now how the blue dogs were brought to heel on health care reform. we have republican congressman john campbell. he has been vehemently against this plan and now maybe he can tell us how painful it is tonight. did the blue dog democrats give up too easy and too early? >> yes. unfortunately they have traditionally done that on many other issues as well. i was hoping frankly this one time they would hold out for something significant change, instead of we don't want 100 yards, let's reduce by 40 or 50 yards, let's back up a foot and they seem to be okay with it. as you indicated the beginning of the hour, that's what went on here. the cuts are probably illusory they say they got, even if they're not it's not that much

money. the public option, they say it will be optional, it will never be, that's the whole point. >> when the employer sees it, it will push peel right into. >> it it will pay at medicare rates a lot less than private health. private health is subsidizing medicare and medicaid and doctors can't make it on medicare and medicaid payments, they're subsidizing it. once it comes in, it's cheaper rates and the people will go there and the private system won't subsidize it and it will collapse and we will have worse care at a higher cost. >> i read amazing figures, roughly 15% of americans, have no insurance coverage. you say only one-third, only 5% are unable to get it, another third get it through medicare and medicaid and another third

choose that. why hasn't it come up. what hasn't come up in the two-thirds are illegal aliens. it's not really only 5% of the population want health insurance and doesn't have a real way to get it. we should deal with that, no question about it. the way to deal with it is not ruin the medical system for the other 95% of us. >> what i haven't understood, why don't we zoom up on those that can't afford coverage and find a way to get them coverage, whereas this plan overhauls everything and how many new agencies and economieses does it create. >> 53. >> 53 new bureaucracies. >> that's right. those people uninsured now young and healthy and make plenty of money just saying i'm not going to insure this because i think i can save a few bucks and i'll take the risk i don't get sick. if i do, i will go in an emergency room, they have to take care of me.

under this plan, those people can continue to do that. it doesn't insure them either but throws a bunch of middle class people currently on insurance onto the government. >> what should we do instead? >> i'm ready. bring it on. in my view, i'm a co-sponsor of the plan authored by congressman paul ryan from wisconsin and nunez from california. it is directly opposite from this, instead of taking medicare and medicaid, currently act airily bankrupt, riddled with fraud and having all kinds of problems. instead of taking that for everybody, let's replace that system with a refundable tax credit where everyone goes out and buys their own insurance and those who can't afford it get a refundable tax credit so they can have the mun to do it and use the money now in medicaid or medicare to do that, open up all 1300 plans you mentioned before that are out there for everybody

so you can buy plans across state lines and let everybody buy their own insurance and have a high risk pool for pre-existing conditions so you can't be canceled or terminated with a pre-existing condition. >> this would turn us more into savvy consumers of health care. right now, if i'm covered, i go where i want and let them run any test they want. if i'm paying myself, i'll be much more wise about it perhaps. >> dennis, that is dead on right. the problem with the existing system is we disconnected the patient from the payment therefore they don't care as much about costs and all they care about is quality and drives additional cost. if you reconnect the patient and cost so we're all choosing who cares for us and what the cost is and we bear some of that cost, guess what, the market will work and costs will come down as they have. >> let me get one of our real dealers, we will get a liberal lawyer type.

tanya, weigh in and ask the congressman or make a comment. >> i have to say, i'm baffled by some of these figures only 5% of americans are truly uninsured. i'd like to ask the congressman what he thinks in california and many other states many bankruptcies are caused by people who have insurance or underinsured and crippled by health care costs. i'm not talking about illegal alliance, american citizen paying through the nose for something that still doesn't provide coverage when they get sick. >> tanya, that 5% figure, there's no dispute about that. i'm not making it up. nobody saying it's not true. everyone agrees on 45, 46 million uninsured and agrees how it breaks down. i'm not making it up. are there horror stories? of course there are. look at what this system wants to move it to? wants to move it to canada, england, want to talk about horror stories, in those places for example, cancer, survival

rates are 30 to 50% less than the united states because of this socialized medicine. >> socialized medicine. >> and comparative effectiveness, will sit and there say, no, you're too old, we think you're not good enough to warrant service for that. >> congressman. >> yes. >> as a lawyer, i think you can appreciate this, we have a public option we respect to other public services. we have a public option. i have to say my former colleague whose work in very large law firms, they weren't afraid of a public option in law, weren't afraid of poor people who couldn't afford private lawyers and having that public option. why are you so insistent trying to create a boogeyman, a horror story with respect to health care. i don't understand that connection. >> congressman, can i ask you a question. my question is this, if this bill is so great, why won't the

democrats take it as their own snaek. >> i was just going to go to that. there is a bill out there. >> bingo! >> all of the republicans co-sponsored if we pass this bill everybody in congress needs to go on the public option. not a single person going to vote for the bill has agreed to co-sponsor that yet. >> congressman if we were in court right now, i think i just won over the other lawyer. >> get a crack at the congressman, go ahead, leslie. >> what was your question now? >> she was wondering what's the big deal with the public option plan? >> the president has even said that if i could do this the way i want, i want single payer, he said that in the past, that's what he wants. this will drive to that for the reasons, if you heard what i said before, tanya, that's what it will, do pay at medicare rates et cetera. what that will do, talk to any hospital and tell them could they make it on 60, 70%, any

doctor group medicare rate payments. the answer is they won't. which means the quality of health care will decline. some years ago when i was in college, our best and brightest in my classes, a lot wanted to be doctors, that's great, we want those people to be doctors, they care for all of us. n nowadays as my kids are graduating from college it's considerably less so because financial rewards aren't there. now for this system we want to take what doctors are making and cut it in half again? we can't be doing that. >> now they want to be bloggers. congressman campbell, we have to wrap, sir. so great oftu be with us. thank you so much and letting the real dealers get a shot at you. you guys are not finished. we have a doctor that it has the president's plan he will explain why and you guys gate chance to jump on him, too. later tonight. and we're talking about the pharma stocks that could get a jump or drop because of the plan

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stocks getting a little bit of healthy jump despite the news that broke regarding blue dog democrats getting in line behind president obama on health care. rebecca jarvis is talking health care and pharma stocks from the nasdaq. >> no negativity in nasdaq health care land today while the blue dog dems may be siding with their liberal counterparts, the health care at the nasdaq contin continues to hang tough. we did see strength across the board from gileag am gwen, vertex and genzyme and teya pulling out a win. >> look out, obama-care pulling

out and on the rise. what's the effect on the summer rally. it can't be good news. john and adam and harry, author of "the "great depression" ahead" a very cheerful guy and bill knead of capital management and john. you know a lot about socialized management you grew up over there. what do you know about obama-care and its impact on the summer rally? >> i think the statistics you put out at the beginning, i agree 100%. they're devastating, the devastating truth. i'm always suspicious of government anyway, particularly when they're secretive and try to push things through in a very short space of time. no doubt about it, this is designed to undercut the private sector and push it out of business so we'll all have to have state sector and standards will drop and costs rise as you illustrated, out of all proportion. i think it will be very bad,

have to raise taxes to do it, people will have to pay more, in their own tax and therefore it will decrease demand and be socialism in the place of free enterprise. it's very very bad for the united states economy. >> adam, kind of a bullish guy on health care stocks and such. what do you say? >> every time we have this conversation, i have to think of the preamble to the constitution, life, liberty and right to free health care. >> it's not a right, is. >> it that wasn't there. >> two issues, the first is coverage and the second is cost. if we want to cover more people that's one thing. that does not deal how we make these costs more affordable. i think there are tough decision decisions we have to make. if you have somebody 6 to 12 months to live depending on the treatment, how much will you spend to give them another six months of life. an easy question you talk about

it in abstract of people but when it's your mom or dad -- >> bingo. >> but when it's society we have to make those decisions. >> i am rather disturbed instantly as soon as obama-care got going, the only thing we talked about was how much we will tax the rich to pay for it. we didn't spend a lot time talking about actually reforming it so we can spend less. harry? >> dennis, real quick, we think it's too early to be pushing a health care plan. we need to see how this credit bubble shakes out which will get worse and we think people need limits and options in care. >> you asked the question about the stock market, how will it affect the stock market? it's affected the stock market the last 12 to 18 months. i don't think there is a human out there that hasn't feared

socialized medicine or sold a drug stock and feared what president obama will do and therefore all what we know is in the pris of securities. what you set up is a wonderful situation for the market. anything short of the most dire socialized medicine will be a plus. >> you're bullish on that. >> i disagree on that. you're absolutely wrong. >> go ahead, disagree. we want that. >> here's the deal. i grew up under british socialized medicine, i don't have the fancy accent like the other guy, i've been here too long. socialized medicine is like a vampire, sucks the blood out of a country's, sucks the wealth out of a country's body, absolutely steshl and why you pay $8 a gas for gas in england. if you think they're only going to tax the rich, you are living in a fantasyland. everyone will pay, care will go down, great big long risks, people dying in waiting rooms. >> which way do you bet?

>> avoid insurers, margin compression across the board, get out of hospital stocks, avoid all those guys, the only people i see making money from this obama-care coming down the pipe are the lawyers that will help the hospitals and insurance companies navigate this new legislation and the technology companies that have to rebuild all the software packages all the admin packages to put in plac place. >> you will add a bunch of customers to the insurance roles who can possibly buy pharmaceutical products for the first time. you will have government mandated prices on drugs. you don't think that's happening? you don't think obama will come out and say we will mandate the price of medical equipment, drugs? you think we will have free market. >> one at a time. >> it's all priced in already. >> you're wrong. you're wrong. >> why can't it be priced in already? my gosh, stocks are below where

they were ten years ago, of course it's priced in. >> people do not realize in this country just how bad things get under socialized medicine. they haven't game planned for complete collapse. >> this is one of those issues -- >> i think actually people, investors have been far more depressed about the future rather than not realizing how bad. >> this information is out there. >> adam, go ahead. >> this information is out there. right at the exact moments health care companies should be making huge profits because the baby boomers are headed twice a week to the doctor, all of a sudden the rug is being pulled out from underneath them. i don't think we know yet to say this is a place we want to be. there are enough other places in the economy we want to invest. the safer bet, i would rather miss out opportunity in the health care sector and find some

place else to play than have a disaster. >> without question. >> we have to temporarily wrap this, guys. we'll be back. we talked money and politics. a little later, we're picking stocks that could take off if health care plan goes through or take off if it doesn't. i'm taking aim at the trial lawyers who brought a lot of this trouble on the health care industry and you, the american taxpayer and find out why the doctor we have on tonight is so dead set against the democrats' plan. back in two minutes. g b

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$500? i could get an electronic fish-finder. that's the spirit. saving you money on boat insurance. now that's progressive. call or click today. ♪ >> i wrote a story about that in the 1980s. with all the debate about health care reform, we have heard nary a word about tort reform, lawsuit reform. what is that? medical malpractice insurance, jury awards are adding billions of dollars in cost to a health care system already under tremendous strain. we're taking aim tonight at a trial attorney with his own firm in tampa, florida. let me tell you, mr. yared, old

steve, in 2006 won the largest malpractice award in florida's history, $216.7 million. for the crippling of one man with a bad diagnosis at the emergency room. he was also involved with tobacco litigation in the state of florida and they won $13 billion. no one is complaining about your salary, worried about salaries at citigroup and goldman sachs, i want to ask you, shouldn't we adroes tort reform and put you out of business. >> put us out of business. >> that's what people like to do. so patients operated on and get maltreated, about 100,000 a year die from that type of maltreatment, they would love to get rid of lawyers and do all types of wrongdoing and never be in check. this is not salary, dennis, i'm not paid like you, i have to earn it the hard way.

>> i don't earn it at all. >> i'm sure you would. everyone loves to eliminate trial by jury until a loved one is wrongfully injured and then it's critical to hear about the malpractice case that should follow. do you know as we speak right now, your program takes an hour, 5 to 11 americans will die during the hour of your program needle needlessly from wrongful medical incidenc incidence. >> the thing is malpractice suit won't change this. when you won your $200 million suit in florida, you said let this deter. malpractice suits continue to be filed and care continues to be bad and we waste billions of dollars on tests we don't need because of defensive medicine. harvard university said 2 out of 6 malpractice suits are without merit.

$1.4 billion a year spent on defensive medicine ordering tests they don't need because they're worried about getting sued. we're wasting money. 13% of hospitalizations are done to avoid lawsuits. >> well, the problem is your statistics and knowledge of this particular area, although you're a very knowledgeable commentator are a little shallow. >> that didn't sound shallow, that was deep. >> medical malpractice premiums and costs are 5% of health care costs. >> medicine ordering tests in fear of that. >> it's not defensive medicine. when you go in a hospital and spend 2,000, 3,000, $4,000 a day for a hospital. that's not defensive medicine. that's called a broken health care system. when doctors and patients are involved, what we need to focus on is not what lawyers do wrong, what doctors and hospitals do right and we have to fix the system. >> you make your living on what doctors and hospitals do wrong. the problem i have with malpractice, it is assumed they did it on purpose and human

error happens. explain the disparity. the guy that went into the hospital emergency room thinking they misdiagnosed a stroke, thought it was a sinus headache, he ends up losing the use of his three limbs gets $100 million at a time the expert in the trial testifies the actual cost taking care of him is only $15 million, they give his wife $55 million for loss of his affection and services and attention and you represented another woman run over by a car in a car wash, the jury gave $7.5 million why is that guy who lived worth $200 million and the woman who died worth only $7.5 million. >> first, i'm very glad to see you've read up on me and will school me on my accomplishments. >> they're very impressive. >> they're not accomplishments by me, they're by the judicial. you're like the mcdonald's spilled coffee. >> if you let me speak on the $200 million verdict, $100 million was punitive damages.

before the jury was rendered. >> it was in an hour. >> right. because they wanted to send a message. the plaintiff announced we'd send the $100 million back and give it to charity dealt with parry plegic -- >> was that done? all i can find is a $1 million contribution to the foundation. >> that's good you found that. can you imagine this person gave back a million dollar of money. >> did the person give back $100 million you said he would give back. >> we took no punitive damages we didn't take the $100 million. >> did you settle. we didn't try to collect it. we made the point. the point is you don't diagnose a sinus problem when a person is having a stroke and loses not three limbs but a quadriplegic. it didn't render one person a victim, the entire family unit a victim, the first thing. secondly, with regard to pain and suffering, you don't have any clue, it's not about dollars

on wall street, about the loss of enjoyment of life. there are some tragedies that last 50 and 60 years truly worth millions of dollars. >> where do you draw the line? what is the human life worth? the problem is we sometimes have the rare jury award for $200 million sends an earthquake of fear through the entire medical system and we end up spending way too much money. >> dennis, call down. you have it right but your message is wrong. you have it right. frivolous lawsuit aren't the common in medical malpractice, they're too expensive and usually not brought. >> it's not common in the 25 states that passed caps in economic damages. >> you're 100% wrong. >> texas has a waiting list for new jersey doctors wanting to apply in texas because of the new cap they had. i enjoyed talking with you, sir, i have to wrap. i hope you come back on so we can fight some more. you're way too good at this. that's why you're a lawyer. i can listen to you a lot

because you talk a lot. >> dennis, justice is good. >> it sure is. the jury system is good, remember that, dennis. >> stick with us, folks, there's a lot more ahead tonight. i've been growing algae for 35 years. most people try to get rid of algae, and we're trying to grow it. the algae are very beautiful. they come in blue or red, golden, green. algae could be converted into biofuels... that we could someday run our cars on.

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k today. all right. four stock pickers, three minutes, obama-care, blue dog settlement tomorrow. james of stock picker.com, tell us what we should buy. >> i like any health care company dealing with an aging baby boomer population, i like. amad in the home health care hospice based i like them and chemid, probably the largest player in hospice and athena

health run by the ex-president's nephew. they improve ip for medicaid. >> john brown, in pacific, give us a couple picks. >> i think as the awful truth emerges, great upside and great down side therefore volatility and trading opportunities on the long and the short side. i like merck and i like united health care, i like blue cross blue shield and pfizer is another one i like. trading vehicles on the long and short side in this volatility. >> can't go wrong with drug stocks. people love drug stocks. ed a come to, give us a pick. >> i like mutual funds. i like the schwab health care fund, the black rock health care fund. a fund that buffalo science and technology funds that owns a combination of traditional tech but also medical technology. i think if you're going to make

money in this market that this is play. >> bill at speed capital. >> mgm, merck, pfizer, bristol myers. and am gwen. >> next up, the doctor's take, why this one is so against the president's plan. back in two.

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get the lg neon for $29.99 after mail-in rebate. ire doctor song. house democrats hope their bill will cut $100 billion from the original reform. i say they're lying to themselves. congress should learn from the state of massachusetts. the state treasury secretary of massachusetts revealed the soaring costs to make sure everyone has health insurance.

tonight's real deal challenge check. >> our costs according to our estimates have gone up 41% since the program was implemented, about 12% per year. it's cost us about $3 billion in increased health care costs since 2006, when this plan first came forward. there's no question we've covered more people but we're -- you know, we're spending significantly more money than was ever anticipated. >> the billion more. remember, obama has been telling us by covering everyone, we will spend less. it just is wrong. one group has a lot riding on this whole thing is the doctors, the american medical association has come out in support for president obama's reform but some doctors just simply aren't on board. dr. hall erschel is an addiction specialist. what is your biggest concern with the plan?

>> my biggest concern is we're going way too fast. this is a complex problem. there's no reason we have to find a solution for this very complex problem in a matter of weeks or just before the summer vacation or before people come back for the fall break. this is an important very critical issue that will impact our health care quality for decades to come. >> why the rush, doctor? >> you know, i think president obama wants to just check one more thing off his agenda. i think that's very irresponsible in this situation. i think as a private practitioner in dallas, texas, i think, you know, we need a good plan to cover the ininsured, we need a good plan to provide quality, provide access. there's a lot of things we can do to fix the system, i don't think the solution is going to come from a completely government run government funded plan. >> right. what do you say to a critic who says, look at that doctor there, he's just worried about his own salary getting capped. >> i think more than the

physician's pay, i think what the physicians really are concerned about is the ability to provide excellent medical care for their patients. in the era of managed care and insurance companies, physicians are not allowed to give the appropriate care at the appropriate point in time because somebody's always looking over their shoulder trying to do something better. what we need to do is find a plan that can align incentives between the physicians, hospitals and patients. sometimes who gets in the way are the insurance companies. insurance companies are taking a lot of money out of the system and we don't need to necessarily create a completely new system, fix what we have and come up with a solution for uninsured. it may involve a government component it to but i don't think we have to come up with it within a matter of weeks. >> thanks, dr. urschel. appreciate it. let's get the real deal reaction. tanya, why don't you start us off? tanya's mike is off.

>> hello. >> tanya was speechless? >> no, she wasn't. go ahead. >> it will never happen again. with all respect to the doctor, i think he's repeated a lot of misstatements about this plan. we're not talking about a completely government run government dominated plan. he does make a good point about the impact insurance companies are having on people's coverage. insurance companies are rationing coverage. insurance companies are denying care. it is employers telling insurers, you're running the plan, keep the costs down. we blame insurers, 138 million people insured by employers and the employers pulling the purse string. >> it will only get worse if the government is involved. it will not take place until 2013 if they pass it today. what is the rush? let's get it right. get away from the insurance companies, they're not always in my best interests, i want to get

back between me and the doctor, i want a health insurance account. i want a catastrophic plan and it's between me and the doctor. >> can anyone name something great that happened with government that was rushed through where you couldn't read it. even obama himself in 2004 accused the bush administration with their budget pushing it too quickly, you can't read it. >> it's a bum's rush, leslie, what do you say? he's losing support. >> i don't agree with the rush. i don't agree with the rush at all. i've always said that and maintain that. this is a huge problem, a huge system that needs to be overhauled from the health management inside to the cost side. i do believe not a checklist for the president but the president himself said, look, if this doesn't happen by january, it probably isn't going to happen. i don't think he's being a nay-sayer, i think he is expressing frustration. >> he knows the more we understand about this plan, the

less chance it is to go through. >> did you hear the state, first lady clinton and former president bill clinton's ideas. >> the problem there wasn't that they took too long. the problem was they had a screwy plan. >> first of all, what is screwy about this plan? you keep talking about government plans but nobody is planning nor is anybody complaining for the past one, two, three decades about medicare, a completely governmental plan. reducing doctor's salaries through medicare and private insurance companies reducing payments through the privatized sector. >> we're facing an underfunded liability through medicare, $38 trillion over the next 75 years, $9 trillion for the prescription drug program that congress passed without passing any accompanying tax increase. we cannot afford this. what i want to know is why, if this doesn't --

>> can't we keep it the way it is? i agree with you we don't need to rush it but we don't avoid it and keep it the way it is now. what is your alternative? we have something that is not good and needs to be reformed. >> you go to the 5% of americans who truly cannot afford coverage, give them coverage of disaster coverage. >> the issue is not just 5% of more than 300 million people is a lot of people. >> leslie, no one is going to hear fuss we keep talking all at the same time. please stop. jump in, ben. >> let me jump in. here's my thing, look at the polls, the average right now is not in favor of this. that's why hillary care didn't pass, the american people didn't like it. when the president says that you're going to save money but then you know that you're not and then you have less, you don't have as many choices, it's a bad plan for america. that's why he has to run it through now because if he doesn't -- >> you are repeating the

statements of misinformation. >> it's true. >> the notion that we will be reducing choice is just another one -- >> the president said so! >> hold on. let her finish, please. >> the congressional budget office said you're only going to be talking about 9 million to 10 million people who would migrate from their private insurance company to a public plan. >> got to cut it off. and the congressional budget office also said that things will cost over $1 trillion and not bring down costs at all. thanks very much, guys. next up another take on the blue dog deal on health care, from the blogosphere. speaking of health care, check it out, this picture of steve jobs, just in to us from our friends at tmz. it's believed to be the first picture of the ceo of apple since coming back to work after his absence for a liver transplant. we wish him well. is he a hero. of capital lichl. tools are uncomplicated?

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♪ the head nurse spoke up, said leave this one alone ♪ ♪ she could tell right away that i was bad to the bone ♪ ♪ bad to the bone bah, bah, bah, bah bad, the blogs are brimming with comments on president obama's health care plan. others are calling it wrong headed and some are sounding

dire warnings if we don't fix health care we're all doomed. i got to tell you, obama care care is a disaster, won't improve care. the private sector is better at doing that because it has the profit motive. whatever. but then on the blogs i find this little beauty from a blogger who calls himself tv8t. in the decade since he graduated college he's had health insurance for nine months, a temp in an accounting office, has no chance of going full time, can't find a job despite two college degrees and a shocker, this guy opposes obama care. the answer is not in forming another government bureaucracy and eliminating the shoompbs industry by offering a public option won't solve any problems. besides, if we really hold our freedom and liberty dear, we should know that the government is not our friend. this blogger says obama care is an attempt to destroy all that we hold dear and free. wow. nicely said. if you weren't anonymous i'd be

happy to credit you on air. for now i'll make up my own, what he said. thanks for being with us, good night. ♪ bad medicine, there ain't no doctor that can cure my disease ♪ crest pro-health provides... ...unbeatable protection against plaque and gingivitis vs. the leading mouthwash. it kills 99% of germs, helps prevent plaque and gingivitis, keeps teeth cleaner longer, and freshens breath... ...without the burn of alcohol. crest pro-health