report. these will keep rising overall and time to start rebuilding our wealth. as a blowering pointed out i'm no stock picker, never been a trader, just reported on business the better part of 30 years, i believe in pax amer can narcs latin for mediterranean peace, harks back to 2,000 years ago when the roman empire ruled the world and means america stands anew as the greatest nation on earth. we will fix our problems and come back stronger than most people believe. pax americana boasts the most vibrant economy, and most innovative mind and best form of government so long as it stays out of business and wealth creation. america is exceptional, the one true leader of our planet. frankly, guys, i'm tired of president obama hat in hand apologizing for it to the rest of the world. pitch to the u.s. economy, will you? as a huge rocket ship on the

launchpad, countdown has just ended. we have ignition, plumes of smoke are rising and the massive thing is starting to shoulder and shake, and liftoff is about to begin. if you believe in pax amer can narcs america the kickass, you have hope to believe this economy will be far more robust than everyone expects. and darren brooks, a big believe in pax americana. he runs the think tank that encourages individual action. amen. are we in the era of pax americana? >> i think for the last 200 years we have been in the era, this is the greatest nation on earth, founded on the greatest nation. to the extent we remain true to the founding principles of this country, it will remain the greatest nation. i worry about this recovery because so much of what's happened over the last two years and slowly progressively over

the last 100 years moved us away from those principles and yes the rocket ship is ready to launch but the massive concrete pillars being attached by our government to restrain that incredible growth business can produce if left alone. it's not being left alone. >> two levels, one, the government policy coming into place with tax increases and cap and trade and health care tax and the other is attitude. president obama in a trip a few months ago overseas was asked do you believe in the concept of american exceptionalism goes back to early 1800s. he said, sure, i believe in american exceptionalism in the same way a brit would believe a britain is exceptional and france. i got tell you there, no usa. i almost feel at high levels of the government, it's embarrassment to be american. >> absolutely. it comes from our universities and professors embarrassed to be

americans. when i go to university campuses and talk and i do that a lot. the one thing the students boo me the most for, when i stay this his the greatest country for human history and still is the greatest country, not because of government but in spite of the role government is playing. >> in spite of government, exactly. >> in spite of government or because the founders understood government needed to be limited, needed to be limited to one thing and one thing only, that is protecting our individual rights. that's what makes this the greatest country, nothing to do with race, nothing to do with geography, has to do with the founding principles this country was found the idea the government should only protect individual rights, butt out of our lives, leave us alone to live our life, pursue our happiness in the way we choose and to the extent we're moving away from that, extent we're getting government in every aspect of our life, we're becoming no different from brits and french and germans and

everybody else around the world. that is a tragedy. our part of the deal, when government said, hey, we'll leave you alone, our responsibility was we had to take perm responsibility for ourselves. >> we had to take care of our income, our jobs, hour health care, but today, more and more, i keep hearing it's as if government is the only answer. >> absolutely. the idea was we're left alone and we're responsible for our own lives and we want that. that is a huge virtue taking care of oneself, a huge pride and self esteem that comes from earning a living, working hard, being able to own your own home. owning your own home because you could pay for it. not because somebody subsidized it, not because you turned in a car and somebody writes you a $4500 check so you can wifeka c bigger and newer car, there's no pride in that. today, we expect government to provide us with health care, food, clothes next. the whole idea of life is being

distorted. it used to be that rights meant freedoms, lib berdieties, today rights mean- >> entitlements. >> entitlements. i have a right to your services, right to health care and right to cable television, which is a great perversion and turns america into becoming more like european when american exceptionalism is this notion of individual responsibility, taking it ourself and pursuing our happiness and government leaving us alone. >> we need more intelligent guys like you out there saying this message. thanks so much. why don't we bring in a guest, julie raginsky, she is a government strategist and loves american but i think she feels like the government should help us instead of own responsibility and drive. >> i certainly don't think government is the only answer and don't think government is the answer, dennis, i think as you probably attended public

school and taxpayer, you can thank them for paying that tab for you, i do think the fundamental life to health and fundamental right to life in our constitution is something that has to be afforded to this. >> then why doesn't government pay health care for every single american? i have to pay for it because it's my responsibility, julie. >> dennis, you're very lucky you have a job and cnbc and nbc universal pays for your health care. guess what? not everybody in this country has the same benefits you, do. dennis, you're not paying for it, actually nbc pays for. >> it nbc pays nothing, my deductible is so high, i pay every single dollar. that doesn't work. >> you're able to get health care because you work for a huge conglomerate. >> only 15 million people in this country are unable to get health care and those are the ones we should be focus in on and not overhauling it for

everyone. darren, get in on that. >> you don't have the right for somebody to offer you services on your terms. you have a right to negotiate for services. yes, let's improve health care and the way to improve it is privatize. >> it is privatized. >> government spends 50 cents. any time government spends 50 cents on any product, prices will go up. the way to resolve the insurance problem is do away with insurance mandates that drive them out of business and reduce options to consumers and ultimately we need to bring personal responsibility. >> guys -- darren, hang on a second. if i can introduce a new guest, jack with us, republican strategist. take it. >> i think what they forgot was dennis earned his health care and his life and entight toilet. mg doesn't give him anything, he earned it from many years of hard work. that's what's getting lost.

when i have this health debate i think about my friend in canada and mother in parliament and talk about the wonders of the canadian and british system. when ever any of their family members are sick and has an ailment much less serious ailment. you know what they do? hop a plane to boston or new york. this is what they do. >> get in ottoway at 9 :00 at night. if there's a right to health care is there a right to cable tv? where do you draw the line, julie? >> let me answer the question. first of all, you don't have the right to cable tv. you have the right to pursue your health, the right to live your life in a healthy manner. let me further say, jack, your friend is lucky in canada he or she is able to hop a plane to boston. i would argue if that person had cancer in this country and the insurance companies didn't think it was in their financial interest to pay for it, they'd be out on the street and not

able to get health care. >> here's what you don't understand. >> i understand a lot of things. >> here's what you don't understand. the miracle cure is to even give these people with cancer a chance were created by the for profit free enterprise system. >> bingo! >> how are they getting a chance? they can have all the great treatments in the world on paper. if they can't afford to do it -- >> it's because of the profit motive that made companies want to earn lot of money. >> excuse me. the profit motive of the insurance company is to cure cancer? the 0 profit motive of the insurance company is to -- let me finish. the profit motive of insurance company is is not to cure people, it is to have people enrolled who are healthy. if they're not healthy, the profit motive goes down. >> here's -- the insurance company cannot appropriately be charged with worrying about the public health and welfare. it helps the public. remember the in visible hand of

adam smith. it helps the public and world through the pro-fit motive. here's what you have towns with your libl philosophy. the same family who says i can't pay for health insurance for my kids, that same family runs out and buys a big screen television, that same family runs out buys starbucks coffee and don't want to put retailers out of snoops are you telling me somebody who needs chemowould rather have a flat screen tv. >> they want to spend it on something else. darn, please get in on this. >> we have a right to pursue happiness. that gives us the right to go out and work hard. with that money, hire a doctor and buy an insurance policy. it doesn't give us the right to steal somebody else's money or enslave the doctor and force them to give us treatment that he can't -- >> excuse me, what does the insurance -- >> without paying him. the insurance companies have a

right to make a profit and they provide and enormous invaluable service. i know it's -- >> no -- no -- i have to ask a question. >> you demonize insurance companies but where would we be in this country without the insurance industry that provides health care for all of us. >> where are the people supposed to go not covered by the insurance companies? are they supposed to die in the stree street? >> it's problem for everyone. you can't fix it for everyone. >> it is a fundamental problem with health care. >> 270 million people in this country do have health care coverage. >> yeah. >> we're going to wreck the entire economy to go after 15 million people who oxidant afford it. >> can i say this? i don't know about the rest of you, i actually do run a small business and i cover 100% of the people who work for me and their health care because i think it's the morally right thing to do. >> you also choose to do it. >> if my profits go down and i choose to throw them off the health care roles because i don't feel like paying for it anymore, where are they supposed

to go? >> take personal responsibility and go out and there take care of themselves instead of knocking on the white house doo door. >> with what money are people supposed to pay up to $20,000 a year for insurance? they can't even get it, if they can even get it. if they're ill they cannot get. >> it we can boil this down to one simple thing. julie, to advance the interest of the bottom 10% of the society wants to drag down the top 75% of the society. >> don't put words in my mouth. the top 75% of society could just as lies, including you if stricken with a life-threatening disease be thrown off the insurance roll and not able to pay for it. >> this is not the top 75% getting together to subsidize the poor 10%, this is our government, the obama posse saying the top 1 or 2% of all

americans ought to be paying everything to cover the bottom that can't afford it. >> if you are making -- > >> -- where you're heading -- >> one at a time. go ahead, julie. >> if you are making $50,000 a year, which i think you would assume is a middle class person, and you lose your health care and suddenly come down with a life-threatening disease that your insurance company because of its profit motive doesn't want to pay, where are you supposed to go? >> there's cobra after you lose your job. >> cobra lasts a year. what if two years down the road your insurance company doesn't cover knew what if my grandmother had wheels? she'd be a wagon. >> what are you talking about. >> got to go, i'm sorry. it was really fun, though, thank you, jack, julie, darren. later tonight, a storm threatening your money. look at those clouds there. hovering above hong kong.

rather ominous. the market is bracing for the worst. also tonight, what would you do if your boss told you what not to buy? it's happening at goldman sachs. check this out. wildfire in east los angeles near glendale, dozens of firefighters on the scene. this is what it it's like to be live tonight at eight:00 undefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather

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the asian markets are open for business despite a storm getting dangerously close to hong kong. first, the weather channel's dr. steve lyons.

>> how's it going. >> okay. >> we do have a tropical storm out there and it's making landfall. >> okay. tell us where and a little more on that or -- >> yeah. it's a very small tropical storm. you can see it right here, making landfall about 90 miles south of hong kong. it's bringing heavy rain there but the circulation is fairly weak. we zoom in on the area, we can get a better perspective. here's hong kong, the island there and a few light rains and winds 15-20 miles an hour. circulation will start to weaken, you see this big band of rain that will continue to move in and it's well west of hong kong and may bring brief street flooding in hong kong, no real threat for this one or significant damage to hong kong. >> renegade rain and street fighting, one of the most exciting weather reports i've heard in a long time. steve lyons, thanks. now, to emily chen in hong

kong. >> i have to report we did have a storm moving in but most of the damage happened through the night. we had the typhoon signal number 8 raised but lowered this morning at 3:48 a.m. things back to normal. we do have a mixed lead from wall street, asian markets are mixed this morning. the nikkei is trading higher up .1 of 1% at 3,86. and the koskie at 1,564. in hong kong we ended the day flat yesterday and will get up in trading about an hour and half from now with big for banks be focused and did get earnings from charter, the british bank reporting its first half numbers hitting a record high, pretax profit, rising 10% better than expected, $2.4 billion, loan charges at the bank more than doubling to $1 billion u.s.

dollars. i'll leave it there and back to you. success and wealth creation breed only contempt for goldman sachs. the goldman guys earned more than $5 billion in net income last quarter. you'd think they had betrayed  our country. i don't get it. why can't we be happy for these guys. doesn't anyone in washington or anyone else on wall street know envy is a sin? take a look at the "new york post." it reads silence is goldman. ceo lloyd warns his employees to lie low and avoid buying big ticket items with their bo daytious bonuses, just like in good fellows, they weren't allowed to do that not to bring out goldman bashers. wrong is wrong. tanya acker, and nancy skinner, and amanda carpenter and tony

fratto, former white house aid to president bush. tanya, the billions of dollars goldman earned means goldman will pay the federal government $5 billion in income taxes this year. why should we be upset gold man is earning money. >> that's all well and good. frankly, i don't think anyone is upset goldman is earning money. what happened was goldman was the beneficiary of the government intervention and lived to do another deal and got a government bailout and taxpayers are confused by that isn't being felt on main street. >> you are saying they lied about the bailout. that is entirely untrue. the company had $10 million in capital and never needed it and paid it back yet you guys won't get out of their face. >> aig, dennis, what about aig. >> exactly. >> i'll bet neither one of you has reported this with wall

street sources on aig, i happen to know those $20 billion at risk, aig gave goldman $10 billion in cash and goldman did default swaps with the remainder. goldman would have been covered by aig if it faltered and they did not need a government bailout. >> why did they turn theirselves into a bank holding company to get $10 billion. the bailed out banks got $35 billion in bonuses. banks who got bailed out, so cash for yachts is different than cash for clunkers. the american public knows it was their money in their banks and don't want to see flashcy displays. >> tony fratto, get in there. we let the two lefties go at it. >> goldman employees are getting compensation packages they negotiated with goldman. that's the way they're going to get paid and the way they get

paid on the st. the only thing lloyd blankfein is saying there's enough sniping, goldman envy on the street and they make money and smarter than other guys on the street, they will get their compensation and saying, don't buy fer aris or look for ways -- >> don't we want to stimulate the economy? wouldn't it be better if goldman people bought new stuff. >> here's the outrage, not necessarily about gold man. the public feels we took a risk and bailed out these banks and didn't know if it would pan out or not. now, there's all this unease, you see this about the polling about the economy, barack obama's approval ratings are going down. when tai took this heads i win, tails you lose risk and they will make this money and spend it and leif high off the hog again. people don't like it z tasteful.

democrats demonized the profit. >> people are worried we gave the banks all this money, how did it turn out. >> here's how it turned out. a story in the "wall street journal" that says treasury will issue fewer bonds because it doesn't need the money because it got paid back t.a.r.p. money by the big banks. this turned out to be great. when goldman put out a $28 billion debt issue it made the government $630 million for that money. >> and easing market rules was the first step. when the government steps in with unprecedented t.a.r.p. to restore confidence to the market. >> and forced it on jpmorgan and wells fargo and others. >> it turned around. at the beginning of this show, you were saying how great this recovery is, how quickly it turned around, it is because the government took such drastic action on housing and credit. >> therefore -- therefore what? therefore we should beat up goldman and don't want them to

earn any money, tanya. >> this should serve as warning to people who go to the government with hat in hand for government. >> if you take this kind of money -- >> tanya, please! amanda. amanda, tanya, please, amanda, that means tanya, tanya, go. . >> i was going to point to a good point amanda made before she started bash iing democrats not about profits, but something they think is distasteful about goldman. whether or not they think it is distasteful is a bigger shoochlt the bottom line is main street does that feel the bailout is working for them. >> amanda, i apologize to you for raising my voice because i kind of like you. thanks very much, guys, it is entirely about demonizing goldman's profits, we are taking off like a rocket man, bulls and bears as markets defy a sell-off after this great run-up, get on

board, with me, dennis kneale. back in two minutes. he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old!

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unilateralism versus mult multilateralism. this is vladimir putin, the leader russia. he wants to take your money. we have pictures of the man with

rippling muscles, the former kgb thug riding his horse, pictures probably from the russian news agency. i think they're trying to give us a message. i think russia is flexing its muscles and don't realize russia doesn't come close to america. next, pullback? what pullback? we are up across the board, in part today because of the latest good housing numbers. pending home sales up for the fifth straight month, the first time in six years that's happened. are you buying these housing numbers? john brown, senior buyer and don ya yackman of yackman asset management, not entirely bullish and lee, a rather generic name, lee and joe miller. take it away. >> hey, man, i'm feeling good again. these numbers are showing exactly what i was talking

about, consumer confidence is entering the market again and as a result, people are buying houses and getting active in the marketplace. as we go to the end of the year with the stimulus plan and $8,000 tax credit you will see a flood of activity and think the numbers will continue to rise and i stay in the bullish corner. >> lee munson i was reading a note pointed out even though they're bearish, the more the markets rise, it does have a direct impact on consumer sentiment and that in turn could end up helping growth. >> exactly. >> go ahead, lee. >> sorry. >> i think one of the things we have to look at, we all know the housing 0 bottomed this summer. but it's regional. like three stops in brooklyn but for most americans can see the light at the end of the tunnel. when you look at these numbers, get away from the regional concept when you see the so-called economists with their models, when they have to start

revise i revising upwards means we're on the mend. like a year ago, it disappointed and disappointed. as consumers see these numbers get beaten by what the so-called economists are saying, it increases their confidence in the economy. >> i don't agree with that. >> go ahead, john brown. >> i don't agree with that i think you're seeing tax credits for buying and banks offloading shadow inventories for foreclosure and you're getting lower and lower prices. >> a good thing. >> not a bad thing, not a bad thing at all, i think it's good. not happening in the middle of hi or high end market. not bad. but you shouldn't read it the market has recovered. >> you don't think the loan portfolios from wells fargo and w wachovia are undervalued right now? you don't think they will recover? >> they will eventually. but the problem is the fall of this year where you have a 3.4 trillion dollar commercial

mortgage problem and consumer credit cards and consumer loans and small company loans going into increasing rates of default. that's the problem. >> john, there's all kinds of reasons that problem won't be anything compared to what we went through with housing. commercial real estate won't be that bad, we didn't have a subprime problem. let's get donald in. where do you stand on this donald? are you starting to turn more bullish? i actually went out shopping for apartments on the weekend. >> for an equity buyer, fun to talk about the economy. i look at what i'm buying, what i'm paying for it and how like will hold it you can find plenty of problems, when its go up, everybody looks at things good and when it goes down, looks at things that are wrong. >> what about housing? i think we're about to pop here.

>> hopefully. i think helicopter ben has done his thing and we're flooding the market with dollars so they will start to prop up prices. but the other side of that is inflation down the road. >> we are done, guys. >> the market's going up but earnings are going down. >> i have to wrap even on that wonderful accent. still a lot more ahead tonight, folks, on "cnbc reports." >> coming up, the rising american auto industry. yes, you heard right, i'll say it again, the rising american auto industry. will ford's big month being enough to get american manufacturing moving again. pax americana. without the usa, can anything be accomplished? look at this guy, he wants to be a power player again. but he's holding you back. dennis is putting putin and every other weak kneed european in his place.

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we have live pictures now of the reporters who have been detained in north korea and president clinton, another hero of mine has actually gone over

there and intervened and gotten them home. president clinton in the spotlight with the two american journalist, held captive by kim jong-il's government. some people look at this, did we aquedoes the north koreans, i think it's a testament to the fact this president, eight, nine years out of office able to go over there and get that done there. were reports clinton went over there and apologized in some way or expressed the obama administration's gratitude. the white house says that's not true. back to discuss it all we have lawyer tanya acker and mr. brook from the ayn rand. and mr. mitchell with the cato institute. you guys are such and eclectic crowd, i have no idea where to begin. i just know peter navarro throws

grenades. what do you think of this trip and just glad those two young women are out of a korean prison. >> north korea is a festering wound in asia. china doesn't know what the hell to do with them and we don't know what the hell to do with them. we don't know how it will be resolved. from china's point of view, if they cut off their food and energy, there'll be a revolt there and north korea will get in bed with south korea and the korea yunified will be with the u.s. it's pretty much a mess and good for president clinton getting on a jet and figuring it out. >> is it undercutting pax americana? did we show weakness sending clinton over there or underscoring our theme of a newly rising american power? no. i believe this is a sign of weakness. >> really? >> i do. any time you have an official american going a country like north korea. we should have nothing to do

with them and ignore them completely. >> you let those two young women rot in jail because of politics? >> you find other ways to get those two women out, don't involve groveling before one of those brutal dictators. >> any time a former just president goes somewhere -- >> negotiating, the right wing, no disrespect. the right wing has taken such and ahistorical approach to negotiations, groveling, talking to another nation isn't grov groveling. did ronald reagan grovel when he talked to the soviets? did richard nixon -- this notion we only talk to our friends is completely unamerican in our history. >> it's not lihistorical. the fact is you don't achieve

peace -- never have we achieved peace through negotiations with any bad guys. the reason reagan could talk to the soviets, was at the same time, he was building up our military to challenge them which ultimately broke the soviet union. >> let's get daniel mitchell of the cato institute. i understand yarin's point but we weren't trying to negotiate peace, we were trying to get two journalists out of jail. >> good news is we did free them from the north korean prison. north koreans are probably portraying this inside as a propaganda victory that might be one of the most evil. but let them have their part. there it are more problems with north korea we should worry about other than propaganda victories. >> what do you say, peter? >> absolutely. >> i think we know wife why he never goes anywhere, afraid if he winds up in north korea -- i think we might all be better off.

all these people that you hear tonight on the show, i mean, these congressman who don't want health care, let them go live in a world without health care for a whichlt let arn go to north korea or china and dennis, how about you go over there and be a dissident journalist for a while. see how you like it over there. >> when the government didn't intervene and we had house calls, we had actual private health care. >> here's the deal. we go back to 1939 right now, you wouldn't have wanted to go over and done anything about hitler. it's the same damn thing, arny. a silly argument. >> now, you're completely distorting the position. i said nothing about anything about hitler. >> distorting the position. >> i said don't negotiate with hitler. >> both of you guys -- >> let them develop nuclear weapons -- >> both of you lost me when somehow you got north korea and

health care and obama-care, i have no idea how you did that. >> you can't go in somebody else's shoes, that's the theme. >> go to -- let's talk about detroit right now. find a factory worker who doesn't have a job because of china's unfair trade practices. tell them fair trade is a good thing. >> i lived under socialized medicine, you didn't. my father was physician in a country -- >> by the same token -- you lived under socialized medicine, i have friends who can't get health care. >> i'm laughing now, you're all fined and punished for going off topic. thanks very much. we're talking about pax americana. the american auto industry get back on track, posting pretty good numbers. could be worse. signs of improvement. next, america's comeback, another reason for optimism and congratulations to president clinton freeing two young

reporters. that was the right thing to do. my name is blake,

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[ male announcer ] remove three times more grime per swipe and get this unbeatable clean guaranteed or your money back with the mr. clean magic eraser. a hearty congratulations to president clinton personally intervening freeing two young reporters from north korea. these are the first pictures of clinton and the women he saved as he left north korea with laura ling and euna lee. all three are en route to los angeles and would arrive sometime tomorrow, i would imagine and were locked up 3 1/2 months. let's bring in john harwood, our

washington news guy. >> reporter: hi, dennis, this is terrific news for the families of those women and successful debut as emissary for president clinton on behalf of president obama, although the white house took pains to characterize this as a private mission. you can bet it has blessing of the white house. and i think one of the questions that arises, is it possible that this represents the beginning of a dialogue that is more serious with the north koreans on the nuclear program. no particular indication yet but you can't rule it out. bill clinton had better relations generally speaking than other u.s. presidents with the north koreans. >> thanks very much, john harwood. are we going to the other guys or want more from john? john, one thing i noticed, this is the type of mission the president can't get involved in, the secretary of state can't get involved in. president clinton once told me

when he was little bit that one thing he wished he could have done as president was be allowed to sit down more with the enemies he wasn't allowed to meet with because of the people that would get upset about it. as a former president it was ideal. it doesn't have the ranking of a diplomatic mission and yet he gets a good thing done. >> no question about it and there's nothing like the cache of the american presidency even for those people no longer in office. jimmy carter acted as an emissary for president clinton when president clinton was in office, and the use of ex-presidents by sitting administrations is one of the most influential tools that they have at their disposal. doesn't always work, but certainly got good results in this case. >> right. hey, jeren brooke with the i.n. rand institute, took a tough stance and says this is bad for america, makes us look weak for negotiating with north korea.

jeren, do you have daughters, sir? >> i'm happy for the reporters that are back. i'm happy for the families, i think that's wonderful and they should celebrate this, that's great but in the context of american/u.s. foreign policy we should not engage in a country that is a threat to us like north korea. there are bigger issues and we will pay a price when we have to deal with them on the bigger issues for this. >> should the obama administration have asked clinton not to go? >> yes, i think they should have. i think they should have. i don't think a former president should go to an enemy country and negotiate for anything. >> peter navarro i'm hoping you disagree. >> i'm trying to figure out if jeren, what he is. a libertarian should say any private citizen can go anywhere they want. i'm not a libertarian, i'm an objectivist. let's not make it material. >> trust me my friend you need to read your own literature.

north korea this is an important issue and we tried not talking to people. this was like the bush approach, you don't talk to the acis of evil. now maybe we'll try something different. the bottom line is that north korea if they develop a nuclear weapon, that has the potential to destabilize asia and that's bad for america. >> right. >> so everything else follows from that. >> here's one thing that surprises me, gentlemen, the north koreans thumb their knows at us, they're firing missiles, showing they may have ballistic capability, they're going after a nuclear program, despite all kinds of backlash. i am kind of stunned that kim jong-il who, let's face it, is a little crazy anyway, would have just done this. what do you think, dan mitchell? >> all of this for publicity for his regime now. foreign policy is always very difficult because you never know whether this is a nevill chamberlain moechlt or ronald reagan moment. this is a totally evil regime,

starving its own people, destabilizing the world and yes, i'm glad the women are out and hope it plays out well in the end but let's not be polyannish about it. >> as a practical matter the united states can't do much. north korea. china, on the other hand, can do everything about it. china basically feeds north korea. >> yes, supplies it practically. >> they give a tremendous amount of food, the people are starving, give a lot of the fuel. all china would have to do, to restrict that, that regime would fall and things would change. let's not lose sight of that. >> do we have nancy skinner with us? >> yes. >> do you think this is going to be front page news tomorrow? i think clinton's a hero and i love the guy. >> i'm glad to hear you say that and i'd like to ask jeren, john harwood said there's nothing like the former cache of presidents to get this done. do you think george bush could have done this? real diplomacy works and cowboy

diplomacy does not. >> i am no fan of george w. bush. >> that doesn't answer what i'm saying. let me jump in for a second. we saw when you reach across the aisle and try to resolve differences you can open doors and that's what history has shown so this idea you should never talk to anyone is absolutely been proven wrong time and time again and obama is still in his hole. we didn't smoke him out of his hole as george w. bush said. >> respond quickly, please. >> i'm not fan of george w. bush. he was multilateral for my taste in terms of compromising in order to create coalitions, when america have could have and should have defended itself on its own terms. george bush talked to the north koreans, negotiated with them, and they stabbed him in the back just like they stabbed bill clinton in the back when he negotiated with them throughout the '90s. >> right. >> negotiations with evil regimes don't work and never have in history. >> get us back to john harwood. john, why do woo north korea care at all about letting these journalists go?

why didn't they just tell president clinton to go home? >> well, i think the north koreans, they certainly want attention. they want some -- you guys still there? >> yeah, we're here. >> the north koreans want attention. they've gotten the attention of the world community, but at some point, they want to get into, we presume, a more -- dialogue, but i got to say that -- hearing -- that george bush -- too much for other countries, i never heard that one before. >> kind of broke up. how about tanya acker, front page news tomorrow, tanya, clinton the hero? >> i think it will be, and i think it should be, but i still just cannot get past this notion that we view this as a sign of weakness. >> this is not people we disagree with. these are people who kill millions of people. it's different. >> in the soviet union ronald reagan engaged the evil empire, and the berlin wall came down.

we have done this. >> the berlin wall came down because he engaged them by building up the u.s. military, not because he spoke to them. >> and you're telling me that's it, that negotiations have nothing to do with it that, nixon and china? what about that? >> the real change in china came in the '80s. >> it's negotiation from a strong point and one thing reagan did do is rebuild our military to where the russians couldn't afford to keep up, they had to talk to us. >> no question but you all are suggesting one doesn't -- there's no one suggesting we shouldn't be strong. >> one doesn't talk to stalin to somebody who kills millions of people. >> i'm glad you're not directing foreign policy because this nation has routinely and often engaged with very bad people who do things we do not like. >> and sacrificed its own interests -- >> -- to advance our agenda. >> guys, we have to end now.

we went to breaking news on the great image. thanks for watching for us tonight, folks, and congratulations to president clinton and i'm so happy for those two journalists and before they even get here, welcome home! have a great night! he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old!

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in every city in a america tonight, sex is for sale. >> i originally went into it, i'll be honest, for the money. >> and for the clients of high-end prostitutes, money is no object. >> i would imagine that it set him back about $25,000. >> who are these men and what are they actually buying? >> it's absolutely not just about sex. here in the heart of america's business world, most deals are open to public scrutiny. but many are done in a world that is shrouded in secrecy. welcome to "dirty money: the business of high-end prostitution." i'm melissa francis.

tonight we go inside the top echelon of the sex for sale business, where masters of the universe spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in a lucrative market thriving just outside the law. it is a high-risk game and you won't believe who's playing. march 2008. several days after the fbi announces an investigation of an international prostitution business, the governor of new york calls a press conference. >> today, i want to briefly address a private matter. >> this is eliot spitzer, the man who campaigned to restore ethics to public life. >> but i have disappointed and failed to live up to the standard i expected of myself. >> now the public learns he hired a prostitute a month earlier from a high-priced agency in new york, the emperor's club, choosing from a menu of 50 women, the governor paid thousands of dollars to the agency.