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you know, politics doesn't necessarily run the stock market. i never buy into that. but i will tell you this. read my lips, no new gulfstreams, taxpayer revolt, even the house leadership and miss pole pelosi are

responding. it could effect it down to 10,500 and get the s&p 500 to 1100. i'm still an optimist, folks. the new bull market. i'm sticking it my guns. anyway, that is my story. dennis kneale, what is at the top of your new show? >> are well, we're going to have boone pickens himself talking about at active energy and oil. thanks very much, larry. have a good night. "cnbc reports" starts right now. tonight on "cnbc reports," you think oil and you think boone pickens. tonight the great american oil man is right here only on "cnbc reports." alternative energy, natural gas, and drill, drill, drill. >> the only resource we have is foreign oil. >> how do we get at it? what more can we do with it? how can you make from it? we have a lot of questions, and we have answers. and tonight, an issue that's

creating energy in all 50 states. >> health care system is slipping away. >> health care forums nationwide are exposing raw emotion. tonight, will it be too much for the white house to take? and bulls, bears, and your money. a tip today, but is the market showing the true face of recovery? is it a lot stronger than the numbers let on? get the real deal with dennis kneale. "cnbc reports" starts right now. >> good evening. i'm dennis kneale. now that we know the recession is over, and it really truly is, guys, it's time to contemplate the big recovery. most forecasters say that this rebound will be belated and livness.s. but i've the got new signs tonight it could be stronger than the doom's dayers are betting. so we start out tonight with a bona fide hero of capitalism, in the real deal, with dennis kneale. tonight we're going to welcome boone pickens, oil man and shareholder rabble rouser.r. when you see there is a live

lectern where he is going to be speaking. there are other speakers there, but a news conference moments from now at this alternative energy conference in las vegas. quickly, he has reinvented himself as a prophet for alternative energy, but can pickens the prophet turn it into profit especially with oil prices down 50% in a year. let's understand something. boone pickens is a great american, but one main goal he has in his new energy plan is to pad his own wallet. he has invested in wind energy and natural gas, and lo and behold, those are the two old alternatives he says can break our addiction to foreign oil. not that there is anything wrong with that. the problem with green energy is too much government and too little enterprise.. when a business can turn a profit, providing greener energy than r that delivers benefits that are the same as oil. and at a cheaper cost. our energy crisis will solve itself. just like that.

and the profit will take care of it, not government subsidies. this is a key angle that is left out of the green movement entirely. the greens paint a horrific future and say we have to cut emissions but leave out the up side possibility that new technology can solve big problems. we also forget, greeny groups have a profit motive themselves. it raises their donation, and it gets them more publicity.y. one last thing, guys. even the government mechanism for spending grant money is itself a mess. the energy department more than two years ago had $4 million in grants to dermal active sources and still hasn't spend that and yet now has $40 billion in new government stimulus money to run through, as well. and now we're going to ask the experts. we're going to bring in some oil guys, and we're going to wait while we wait for boone john,

let's start with you. you're a bull on oil. you say it's going to $100 this year. is that right? boone pickens today said 85. >> i'm a step ahead on this one. a lot of the same factors and circumstances that got us to the same point last year are going to rear their head again. >> those factors would be ease evil speculators. >> i don't blame the speculators. i blame ourselves for importing 2/3 of our oil, and the intense competition that represses resource for china. >> so john thinks $100 a barrel this year. you don't see $86 barrel until 2012. >> yeah, if we get there at all. right now, there is a tremendous amount of global catastrophe. there is also an extremely large inventory building up everywhere

oil can go. right now, i think it's going to take something more than an economic recovery. you're going to need something like a reincarnation for us to get to $100 a barrel.. >> what do you want to tell us about speculators and their role in getting oil -- getting it to 85 or $100 a year? >> there is no doubt that speculators i think have currently drirven the price up beyond the market fundamentals, and goldman sachs and other banks are predicting that the sky is the limit. and so until congress and the cftc take more aggressive action to limit some of these harmful levels of speculation, we're going to see higher oil price until whatever economic recovery we have.e. but consumers are doing their part, driving a heck of a lot less, folks are turning in tens of thousands of gas guzzlers in had for more efficient cars. the market -- consumers are responding, the market hasn't been. >> if you americans to drive less and use less oil, you should love those very

speculators that you're la minting, because to the extent they increase the prices that end up increasing at the pump, that's the best instant way to get americans to drive less. so how can you want the speculators to rein in, you should be applauding them. >> not when it comes to such signature financial harm to americans. to families that lack access to alternatives to high prices s isn't going to get us a clean energy economy. it's going to get us an in the tank. so what do we need to do is to make sure that we pave the way for the al alternatives. >> zachary, he means well, but he is just entirely wrong, isn't he? >>. >> i completely agree with you. yeah, the big thing is, you've got to look at a weak dollar. you got it at least at 100 this year. you've got a government that has printed trillions and trillions of new dollars. what's going to happen?? you can't blame the speculators completely. of absolutely not, dennis.s. >> and john, even if the

speculators driver up the price, we've got $447 barrel last summer, the reason it plummeted is because the speculators were ultimate re wrong. >> they were wrong, and they were pricing the next great depression. they drove the prices lower and enabled tremendous technology that boone is probably going to talk about when he gets on about how much record production we're having thanks to high gas prices the last couple years. and i'm so miystified by this, have to say if we were to eradicate the speculators, does anybody think the energy crisis will be over? will it be 10 cents a gallon again? >> it's not just the speculators. >> thank you, very much, gentlemen. and so what would $85 a barrel mean for the market? jf jack and tom lyden, editors,

and scott, strategic officer. jack, $85 a barrel for oil, instead of $70 where it is now, would that wreak havoc on the economy, or would the market ñ absorb it?ñ >> i don't think it would creatñ havoc, but it would certainly ñ hurt.ñ gasoline is a -- would draw awañ cash resource as a way from other spending and shift it ñ overseas. keep in mind that one of the reasons why economists are anticipating higher growth in the third quarter is exports are down.. the key reason behind that, oil prices are down. and oil prices go back up, ñ exports come back up, economic growth sags as a result. >> but why are, though -- i mean, take other side of the train, regarding speculators, why should oil prices be up, even as high as they are now, given that global economic demand actually is way down, tom lyden? >> well, global demand is down, but the speculation, dennis, is

real. five years ago, the average investor really didn't have access to investing in commodities the way they do today. and with all these steps that are available, receiving billions of dollars, tens of billions of dollars flowing into commodities and related etfs, gas, metals, oil, it's not going to end any time soon. so i think we have to factor that in. if it the government gets involved, that's one thing. i'm not sure if that's the best for the market, but we're going to see higher oil prices, no doubt. >> scott, are the oil bulls getting ahead of themselves here? >> i think oil does have room to go to $85, potentially $95, but will is not much opportunity for investment. we're hoipg frthe fundamentals the system changes. and adopt policies of green initiatives. if that's the case, and americans change their ways, maybe it will head lower, and will stay lower. but at this point, we have to stop spending -- sending our

money to the mid east. >> wait a minute. you're saying cap and trade, and that is going to send oil prices lower? >> not at all. change the way we operate, change the way we buy, go to fuel-efficient cars, stop using the suvs, put situations in place right now, like nuclear power, like cars running on natural gas. situations that will change the longer-term view of how we operate as an economy. right now, with oil at around 72, there's not a lot of -- pressure about high prices or what not. so wei we take a breather here. >> jack, everyone always worries about high oil prices and yet i looked at 25 years of data. higher oil prices never caused inflation to break down and go up. >> no.ñ higher oil prices tend to causeñ recession.ñ just about every recession we'vñ had since virtually 1 -- well, the '70s was really in large

part precipitated by a big ñ run-up in oil prices or energy prices in general.ñ so, no.ñ i find that -- in if our experience last year, as an example of that, we had had oil go to 140 something a barrel but inflation certainly did not go up. >> thank you, gentlemen.n. we'll talk in a few minutes. next up, the real deal. takes up the fight over the green alternative. as we wait to hear from boone pickens. and later tonight, congress backs down from plans to spend over half a billion dollars on eight new private airliners for congressmen. but these tone deaf jokers still want to spend $220 million on four new private jets. at a time like this, it's unmitigated outrage.e. we'll be right back. you're the colon lady!

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♪ boone pickens is heavily invested in natural gas and wind energy. are those the best alternatives to oil? and should taxpayers be responsible for paying for the

pickens plan. let's see what the real deal squad thinks. our democratic strategist, and editor of the daily voice and cnbc contributor and on the right, president of the national and legal policy center.. and on far far far right, dana burkeman, republican strategist. jack, what down? let's let government pay for all of these green energy efforts. i'm sure julie and keith like the idea, but what to say. >> there is definitely a role for government supporting some wind. but they can't have a database about at active energy, because they get into climate change, pollution and back to the issue of behavior control. for these people, dennis, what this is a vehicle for controlling human behavior. i've said for years if somebody wants to hold a hearing on global warming in january, i'll start to believe in it. so if you want to throw money in the direction of solar and wind

a little bit, that's appropriate. >> julie, we've been throwing money at solar subsidies for 30 years, it hasn't worked.. i don't know why the profit motives can't take care of this. of. >> dennis, quite frankly, there was an interesting article in "new york times" saying that the military are concerned about global warming. standards of global warming poses a military threat, and they're coordinating -- >> i know. i read it. >> you can -- the obama deal -- wait, jack, come on. the obama deal -- it's not -- wait a second. general steiny, a form general, i believe, saying this is an issue we need to address.s. that's not obama. this is the military that says this. come on. >> peter flaherty, the military is always running war games, i don't think that's going to be proof of global warming. otherwise the greenees would have changed the title to climate change to global warming. take it, peter. >> that's right. what it means is the general

wants a promotion. it shows how science is being thrown out the window and every segment of society including the military is being poll sized. >> wait a second. >> i'm talking here, you know why? because now we're actually going to ask the legend himself, boone pickens is with us. welcome, boone. let's start out broad here. first, i've got to ask you, i declared on this show on june 25th that the great recession is over. and i'm hoping you'll second that motion there, boone. what do you say? >> it was over on june 25th -- >> the great recession was over. that's what i said on june 25th. it's over, it's ended.. go with me here? >> you know what? i'm not an economist, i don't know whether the recession is over or not. i think we have -- i wouldn't bet the farm on it, because we could have some -- we could have some tough going from here. >> is that right? well, you old fraidie cat, i'm surprised. all of the leading indicators point up, my friends, that it's

looking better. all right. the economic rebound is going to be really bad, credit and consumer price is dead. but maybe business spending will offset that, and in previous years when consumers were saving more, the economy grew more anyway. how about building hope for a great recovery, boon? what would you say to that? >> sure, we're going come back and have a great recovery. but i went through a tough period in the faurk fourth quarter of last year, and had' good year this year. the equity funds are up 5%, and commodity funds up 120%. so we've got it good here, but i'm not going to call it an end of the recession yet. >> okay. well, i'm calling it. i'm a tv journalist, so go ahead and stop me. talk about your alternative energy plan and a lot of sizzlel when oil is approaching $150 a barrel last summer, seems less sizzling when oil is down 50% in a year. so where does oil need to be for your alternative energy plan to

be free market feasible? >> well, wait a minute. on my alternative energy plan, my number one issue is security four americans.s. and we are importing almost 70% of our oil. that was exactly where we were last year when it was $140 a barrel. now we're $70 a barrel, half of that, and it will be 75 by the end of the year, and all be 85 by the ends of next year. you're going to go right back up to where you were. but your security is the same every year, because we do not reduce dependency.y. all we do is get it cheaper. so get ready, because the security issue is going to remain there. >> yeah. >> we only have -- we only have one resource in america. that will reduce dependency on foreign oil. >> that would be natural gas? >> that's natural gas, yes, sir. you got it. >> tell me, though, exactly how much money does government have to spend helping your government

get adropped?d? had it seems like with this green energy stuff without subsidies isn't commercially feasible yet. >> okay. you want to take it -- in the 21st century grid? >> sure. >> get your oar in the water. that will fail, and -- but you've got to get into it to get the price down on it. so you don't have to jump into it, just ease into it and get started. >> how many billions are we talking here, boone, of government funding to help you get started on this alternative plan? >> well, you can run the 21st century grid off private investment. that doesn't have to be -- you don't have to -- give a production tax credit on it. give a little help there. but on the -- on the wind, it's the same thing. go with the ppc, and the climate bill that has passed the house, that that bill has got health -- and i can't tell you exactly how much. i'm the not avoiding the

question, but i can't remember exactly what it is on the wind. >> let me set you up for basically the idea that i really feel like we will solve this oil addiction quite easily as soon as an alternative comes up that offers the same benefits at cheaper the cost. >> okay. let me go to it then if you let it go -- wind does not reduce foreign dependency on oil, okay? >> right. because only 1.6 of our grid is driven by oil, anyway. >> exactly. where you have to go is where you can replace the oil import. that's $400 billion a year. so you can go to it with natural gas. natural gas is selling at 50% of the cost of diesel, for instance. >> correct. >> so it's 50e% clean e it's 50% cleaner, it is abundant, it's ours. jobs come with it, and you cut off the dependency, and you cut off the $400 billion. you aren't going to get rid of --

>> yes, sir. but then why hasn't it already worked? why are we all driving gas cars? >> well, because you have cheap oil and cheap gasoline is the first reason. >> yes, sir. >> and you didn't have the leadership in this washington to tell us about the dependency on foreign oil. so now they know, everybody understands, and take it to the 18-wheelers first.. you take out the $ 6.5 million 18-wheelers in the united states, and that's what we have, those can be taken out in less than ten years, you will reduce the foreign -- the oil from opec, which is 4.5 million barrels a day, you'll cut it in half. >> when you say take it out -- you're going to take those 18-wheeler truckers and take them off the road and instead of running on gasoline, they're going to run on natt gas, right? is. >> okay. when they replace their diesel, they replace it with natural gas. >> yes. >> they have $65,000 production

tax credit on that. and now they're over on a domestic fuel. >> $65,000 production tax credit?? not for each 18-wheeler?? >> for each -- >> how many 18-wheelers are out there on the road, sir? >> 6.5 million.n. >> 6.5 million, how much are we talking about? here's the thing. . >> yeah, well, wait a minute. yeah, go ahead and get the number. i think 65,000 times 6.5 million 18-wheelers -- now, this is over a ten-year period, okay? okay. let's say -- what is it, 65,000 times 6 would be roughly -- >> 65,000 times 6.5 million 18-wheel truckers.. >> okay. that would be 400 billion.

we're paying $400 billion a year. this is over a ten-year period. >> but here's the thing, sir, if it's a great idea, it seems like someone ought to make money doing it, and we shouldn't need a $68,000 per truck tax credit to do it, should we? it ought to just pay for itself, and find a truck owner who would want to do that because it's such a great commercial alternative. >> well, the instrumental cost differs between a diesel 18-wheeler, and a natural gas 18-wheeler is $65,000. so you put them in it to get them in it, and now we're on the domestic fuel, and we have now cut out 2.5 million barrels a day. okay. and one last thing. you know, the energy department just got more than $40 billion in stimulus spending to pass out its green grant, that kind of thing. but, you know, they had a hard time spending even $4 billion for two years after they had another round of program for that so is government even spend

this money?? it seems like it's more in the transom way too soon. >> okay. that's not my question. but i can answer the one for you on the 18-wheelers. yes, sir. >> yes, we are prepared to spend the money on it. and you don't have to have a fueling infrastructure.. the fueling infrastructure will come with the 18-wheelers. just try it. see what it does. and what happens to you today. you cannot sit at the energy table in the world, because we -- we're not competitive. we have no energy to compete with. >> right. >> if we go to natural gas, then we move up to the table. then we negotiate the price of oil, because we have our own resources. >> all right. thank you so much for being with us, boon pick ens, a hero of capitalism. i always enjoy talking with you. >> thank you. >> and up next, the chutzpa of congressman brad sherman. >> i'm going to ask the three executives here to raise their hand, if they flew here

commercial. let the record show no hands went up. second, going to ask you to raise your hand if you're planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial. let the record show, no hands went up. >> now, and let the record show, guys, that i'm going to ask which members of congress voted to spend $550 million in taxpayer money at a time like this. to buy five new private jets for members of congress. i see representative sherman's hand up in the air. how dare you, sir. and the house leadership is going to spend less than half of that, but still the outrage of the day. coming up in two minutes. (announcer) take your time to find the right time

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stop taking cialis and call your doctor right away. (announcer) 36-hour cialis. or cialis for daily use. ask your doctor about cialis today, so when the moment is right, you can be ready. ♪ congress, backing down tonight on its plan, its tone-deaf plan to buy a bunch of new executive jets at a time when government runs a massive deficit. brad sherman, a california democrat was the man who chastised auto executives for having private jets when they went to ask for a private bailout, and he is one of main backers of the jets for congress program. what's good for the goose, you know? let's bring the real dealers back. got to tell you, guys. i just cannot even believe they

dared authorize $550 million for eight jets.. now the reports are they will spend $220 million instead on four jets. julie, even a democrat-loving liberal like you has to be outraged by the tone deafness of this for doing this. >> yes. i am outraged, as a matter of fact. >> wow. >> yes. they are tone deaf, and brad sherman is right to ask the question of the auto ceos and he is equally not to vote for this legislation. >> it's like rome, dennis in the fifth century. with the money just in the excess, just with the bogus money congress wastes on this silly stuff, obama could probably go in and buy private health insurance for the bottom 5% of the society. the real point is here -- why should we start wasting hundreds of billions of dollars?s? >> i'll finish it for you. you know what? it's like my waistline.

i'm 15 pounds overweight. what's another 5 pounds? >> the thing about congress is not the spending for this particular jet program, the problem is you have 445 members of the house, 100 of the senate, each with their own agenda. it's impossible they can think this is some sort of incohesive institution. and the reality is that people are all going about their work trying to do different things. >> i don't hear an answer. do you support funding for the jetstreams? >> of course not. congress doesn't even support this. they knew this was a dumb move. >> well, still -- they're still being dumb, because dennis, you said they backed off, but only halfway. >> yeah. >> they should get rid of their jets completely. i fly commercial, as other members of the panel probably do, too. and i think flying commercial teaches you more about what is happening in this country than anything else. >> i'm sure it does. can we take a hand vote? i say no jets for congress, scrap the entire program.

who will join me, raise your hand. >> i will join you. but i will say jack is misguided about this -- not looking for promotion. -- he's excited about the fact this is not new. it's not like this is a democratic problem.m. >> it makes no difference. >> i worked in the house in 19 95 when republicans took over, and newt gingrich in his wildest moment would not have supported anything like this. >> there is no phantom government -- >> go to the fingerprint. you'll find -- >> the air force for many years now, the corrupt -- >> hang on. got to take a break and get ready for this, because we're hoping to talk to two members of congress about it, coming up. >> thanks very much.h. and there is still much more ahead ton on "cnbc reports.""

bulls, bears, the dollars and in our money. who is making news tonight here on cnbc? we're still getting to the basics. up next, is the dow really representative of the strength of this market? it's a showdown between open fear, next. also tonight, i went to a hockey game the other night, and a form of health care broke out. the hats are off from coast to coast, and americans are fighting it out over health care.. this is "cnbc reports" on monday, august 10th. we're back in two minutes. and as a progressive customer, you get to use any of our concierge claim centers. so i can just drop off my car and you'll take care of everything? yep, even the rental. what if i'm stuck at the office? if you can't come to us, we'll come to you in one of our immediate response vehicles!

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welcome back to "cnbc reports. "here again is dennis kneale. still selling it, guys. the great recovery.. back to break it down further, doc abe lynn, tom lyden and zack.. dock, you know what i've noticed, i feel like the dow index, a mere 30 little stock is underestimating the strengthening of this market. up 43% from march, and the s&p 500 up 50%. why do we still reveer the dow and let everything else bank off of it? isn't it time to drop the dow?

>> i think the dow is a good representative of a retail-oriented index of blue chips, typically large cap, typically stock prices above $10 a share. you know, if you go back and look at the sources of a lot of the recurrence that we enjoy from the march bottom, you'll find two things. one is b-rated stocks, typically not oebds by most retail investors up 80%, with a., a close-rated stocks probably 20 to 30%. >> okay. >> scott redler with teatreelive.com, what do you think of the dow versus the s&p? the s&p is such a broader index. the reason the dow was invented 100 and some odd years ago was because they couldn't track 500. so why don't we switch to s&p and tell us what you see? >> first, the kwa traders don't really get involved with the dow right now. >> what do you see s&p-wise? >> here we go.

the s&p has followed a few channels, okay? this was the one that we saw, last topping around 955. once that was breached, we had a 10% pulling of. now we do have another up trend intact that most traders are following, and that's well and good until it breaks.. and right now, technical traders are watching the number, it came it in at 1015, sold on friday, now we're looking to see 990, 91 holds. if that isn't, the up trend is rising channel could come in jeopardy and then we can get a nice pulling -- and then we think we could have something compelling. >> i think something to point out two things are going on here. the same exact cards, and utterly opposite interpretations about where it's headed. >> two different economists come in, and can argue the economy.y. >> but you know this stuff. >> we do know this stuff. that's why we have a point of reference from friday, and a break would change our composure

and we act accordingly. >> i'll bet you a martini four weeks from now we're up. >> how about make it a double? >> okay. a double. one last thing. >> on the dow, is it because the -- you don't like it anymore? >> i've got to move on, sorry, just following orders. folks out there, have you seen the town hall meetings on health care when congressmen come home to visit their constituents across the country? it is quite interesting. >> spend it and waste it. working on all this fraud, and the government has a lot more fraud. >> yeah!h! >> they had their chance. it's not working. >> as i said, there is a effort to disrupt these meetings. >> i was sent myself. how dare you -- how dare you say that i'm part of a conspiracy.y. >> you know, even if you provide brief uprising, you cannot orchestrate passion and outrage like that.

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♪ me first in the gimme, gimme. ler. we have two members of congress coming tonight to talk about the about-face congress just pulled tonight regarding the private jets for members of the house and senate.. that is coming up. but as members of congress head home, they are getting an earful on health care. it is brutal out there. check out this scene from iowa with senator harken. >> you need to spend it and you waste it. look at all this fraud! and government is a lot more fraud! >> yeah! >> they had their chance. it's not worked. >> as i said, there is a nationally-coordinated effort to disrupt these meetings. >> who said this to you? i came myself!! how dare you! how dare you say that i'm part of a conspiracy? >> how dare you, indeed? where is my congressman on this

one, representative towns in brooklyn, people have is been writing and trying to get him to come on, no response.. but representative, what a pleasure of having me in your district, i'm inviting you to come on my show, sir. any time you want. you have an open invitation. look at that nice calligraphy there. come on my show, "cnbc reports," give us a call. your press lady -- and that's what it says here, your press lady has the number. and now i'm going to take aim at one big advocate for health care across america. doctor claudia fagin is with physicians for a national program. and what that basically means is here are 16,000 doctors who support the idea of a single-payer. >> that's correct. that's absolutely correct. >> they want government to be the one pay or. i'm surprised. have you ever had a private practice yourself? >> yes, i have. >> and you want government to decide how much you're allowed to earn and what they're going

to pay you instead of, say, competing plans to decide what they're going to pay you. >> well, i think i would be better negotiating with the government than i ever did negotiating with the insurance industry. you know, they're about over a thousand different insurance companies in this country, and we always had problems getting paid for services we had already provided. >> the next thing, though, you're able to navigate among different plans, with one payer,lpayer, l there are no choices. >> that's absolutely false. this is a false premise that people don't have a chance to choose who their providers are. >> doctors will get paid by only one payer in a single-payer system. that you support. doctors have no choice what they get paid for, what plan. they have one payer, the government, and one plan. i think that's not mischaracterizing, is it ma'am? >> no, it is not. >> okay. so let me ask a more basic question. do you feel that i, an american resident, have a right, an entitlement to government-guaranteed health care, or is health care coverage instead my personal

responsibility and i need to go out there and take care of that? >> well, i think you need to make a distinct -- i think your health is your personal responsibility. but should you have a guaranteed access to health care in this country? absolutely you should. >> guaranteed access to health care. yeah, if i have the money -- >> no, no, no, no. here's the reality. even -- even if you don't have insurance, if you fall into my emergency room or my office, i'm obligated to take care of you. and i will tell you that it's far more cost-effective to provide care for you, preventative care and treat your high blood pressure. >> i'm sure that's what happens now, people go to the emergency room and get treated and one reason we're complaining there is not enough health care coverage. what i don't understand is how is it that covering the 45 million people who don't have insurance, and some congressmen say only 15 million of those people are those who want it and don't qualify for it and can't get it. but 45 million. if you cover them, our costs go up, not down. and yet obama and the posse says that our costs will go down. how does that work?

>> well, let's make a distinction here between the obama plan and single-payer. i tell you that over the long run, it is for far more cost effective to provide prevent active services for people than to wait for them to need emergency room service. >> sure. agreed. >> and if you are taking care of your population, then it's cheaper in the long haul. i would maintain we're spending more than any other country in the world on health care, spends twice as much as the next country -- >> 5% morement go ahead. >> all right. and we -- a third of our population are uninsured or underinsured. >> not a third. 45 million people. >> you're talking about the people who are uninsured. i'm talking about the fact that even families who are insured are just one illness away from bankruptcy. 52% of all bankruptcies in 2007 in this country were people who, you know, had -- you know, two-thirds of those people had a time when they had medical

illness or death for their bankruptcy. >> yeah. i tell you, the problem these obama folks face is that 68% of americans say they like their health care coverage quite a bit, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. thank you very much, doctor, for being with us tonight. i'm sorry, but we have to get back to another issue here. thank you very much, ma'am. i hope we have you on again. have a good evening. let's get back to the congress and private plane. house leaders are scaling back. understand, i feel like when in the worst time in our economy, congress decides to spend $550 million on private jets for themselves after criticizing wall street and auto company executives for private jets in i believe they ought to spend nothing. but they decided tonight instead of spending $550 million, they're going to spend $220 million, apparently. we have brad sterman, a california democrat who astro sized those who having jets and one of the main backers for the

jets for congress plan. what was he thinking? joining us are congressman joe dafik from pennsylvania and tom price, republican from georgia.. let me start with tom price, because his name is easier to pronounce. congressman price, where were you in the original vote on 550 million, and where are you on the issue tonight? >> hey, dennis, good to talk with you. thank you so much. i think we have made it halfway where we ought to, and that is cut it from eight to four jets. now we need to cut it from four jets to zero jets. this is just another exactly of fiscal irresponsibility run amuck in congress right now. and i hope that joe agrees with me we ought to move it from four to zero. >> well, congressman, how about that? i'm moving for zero, too. what do you say, sir? >> i'm completely in support of going down to four.. the reason i support the other four is because the defense department didn't request them. there are two types of planes. we served in the military for 31

years as a retired navy administratively. one is similar to a dc-9. it's actually used to ferry numbers of troops, usually those that are going off somewhere, maybe about 80 to 100. the other one is more of a gulf stream type of vehicle. for example, when general petraeus tries to go from one place to another you get around quickly >> sestak in. >> sestak.k. >> i apologize for interrupting but i must point out i feel you are missing the big issue, diverting into detail. what kind of private jet it was you guys look bad on this and for criticizing the banks and car guys for a private jet when you insist on private jets. i got three words for you, first class air fare. what's so bad about that? >> i'm not going to defend lawmakers using them but i will defend that gentlemen and gentlewomen like general

petraeus whose time is of essence in a war that those men and women do need rapid transport between certain areas. i will not defend lawmakers using them, but i will defend those four-star generals and i will defend the secretary of defense that needs to use their time to get to certain places rapidly. that's why the defense department requested four, not eight. >> turning to the other congressman, republican. i believe the defense department said these jets were not needed. they didn't need them, right? >> no, only four they said were needed. >> dennis, joe acts like they don't have any planes right now. they got 24 of them right now. no need for four more, my goodness gracious, especially in this fiscal crisis we have. what we need to do is cut it to zero. i hope the congress will do that when we get back in september and then hopefully the speaker will allow folks the opportunity to actually read a bill before we vote on it. >> congressman sestak, it seems washington is concerned with issues of image. they trashed merrill lynch for

spending $1 million on office decorations which was like 1/4,000ths of the money handed to merrill lynch to keep it alive and now you want to spend $220 million on private jets for your junkets. don't you realize you're going to get clobbered on this? >> the defense department has come across through congress, requested for, unfortunately, congress added four more in, which i am in total agreement with doing away with. these planes they are replacing are over 20 years old and do i support the senior defense department -- >> the commercial airlines i fly on are way older than 20 years old. jack burkman, would you like to weigh in on this with the congressman? sorry, we don't have him. >> let me tell you something, if you want to be a united states senator in my home state of pennsylvania you better come one arguments better than that because arlen specter will crush you to come on national television and make the argument nancy pelosi wanted these jets not for congressional perks, not

cor congressional privilege but for use by the military, sir, you should abshamed. you are deceiving the american people. that is wrong. that is wrong. >> if i might, dennis, if i might. >> yes, sir. >> first of all i'm not ashamed of my 31 years of naval service. >> that's not the issue. >> if i could, if i could. leading men and women into harm's way.. >> that's not the issue.e. >> if i could, i watched our four-star generals leading men and women into harm's way. >> not the issue. >> and the defense department asked for these planes for their use. i will defend that until hell freezes over because quite frankly, you can make fun of our service members over there that haveriesen from lieutenants up to be four star generals but sir, kindly, please, understand that this was a request for generals who are in combat to be able to go from one place to another, and those that are leading large troops in formations here, not do i ever support them for lawmakers.

i just want to make sure that the details are important. >> congressman, let me tell you even in that case the military, they must have plenty of jets all over the place. i don't know why they need a new gulf stream. keith, go ahead, 30 seconds. >> a question for tom price in georgia, did he support the f-22 finding which president obama tried to cut but many members of the congress and the house and the senate republicans tried to put more funding into that, with the defense department did not request. where were you, tom price, on that? congressman? >> i supported the f-22 because i think it's vital for our national defense but the issue right now it's a classic bait and switch that joe said, it talks about one issue and brings up whether or not we support the troops and respect the generals in the field. that's not the issue.. the issue is whether or not we're fiscally responsible with our money >> thanks, guy, we are back in two. )%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%

thank you, good night. congressmen, call me.