the heart of this show is two investment gurus and famous guys, both whom agreed for different reasons the bull market we've been talking about,

the new bull market can run for quite a few more months, well into 2010, getting back to the pre-lehman highs, 1200 on the s&p, over 10,500 on the dow. i take my lead from those guys. they have been around, they have great track records. one final thought. whatever your opinion is about the swiss banking laws, the swiss down through the years have always emphasized a stable swiss grange. ben bernanke the fed, how about a stable u.s. greenback? dennis kneale, how about a stable overhaul of our health care system? where are you going tonight, buddy? >> we have a special report for the next hour on that. i am fresh from the heartland, we're ready to go. thanks very much, larry. "cnbc reports" starts right now. >> tonight on "cnbc reports." passions ignite off the palisades parkway right next to cnbc. >> the government is going to make all the decisions who is going to live and who's going to

to die. >> the great health care debate one of the most contentious issues of our time comes to our door. >> i worry for my future and my children's future and my grandchildren. >> anger, fear over the president's health care bill igniting town hallucination-wid hallucination-wide. >> who's gonna pay, who's gonna pay? >> tonight, the future of american health care. also tonight, a big day for the markets after a two-day pause, the bulls come roaring back. we have the real deal on your money on the future of health care and on the things that matter most to you and your family. "cnbc reports" starts right now. this is "cnbc reports" at the end of the day, your first look at tomorrow. >> good evening, i'm dennis kneale. i come to you tonight fresh from the heartland. the people have spoken. boy, are they pissed.

i was there at the health care meeting in new jersey off the palisades parkway and, boy, there was a lot of passion. my ears are still ringing from the comments and complaints from some of the more than 350 people who attended. these were real people, not paid actor, not bussed in agitators as the obama posse would have you believe. real people. it's not just obama-care that has them riled up. it is the wholesale encroachment of government into their business and their health and their lives. let me map it out for you. in the real deal with dennis kneale. the weird thing is the stock market continues strong and undaunted as this populist revolt ignites american democracy. the dow today popping up 120 points, closing 40 points shy of 9400. the s&p 500 closing up past that 1,000 mark. the nasdaq rising within two points of 2,000.

toll brothers posted the first year-over-year increase in orders for new homes in four years. the fed will keep rates low and improved the outlook then economy. productivity numbers were good and trade deficit was better than expected, especially for non-oil goods. oh, yeah a "wall street journal" survey of economists show most of them agree the great recession is over and done with! thanks, guys, where were you seven weeks ago when i first declared that on this show, the recession is ending right here and right now. stocks are hunting. you'd think business should be worried. the health care fight is, more than anything else, a business issue. an economic issue, 140 million american workers already have health care coverage through their employers. every year, we pay $700 billion for medical tests and procedures that are unnecessary. medical malpractice lawsuits fuel a hefty chunk of that, yet obama-care would slap penalties

on employers that don't cover their workers. it might slap higher taxes on those who do cover their workers and might slap fees on those who refuse to buy insurance and some 15 million people can afford it but forego it as a personal choice and would raise taxes on a small number of high earners when the top 1% already pay 40% of all federal income taxes. because of possibilities like that, president obama faces the fiercest opposition he has ever encountered. this is difficult for a guy who, for the past three years of campaigning, grew accustomed to adoring crowds and adoring media and opposition that was kind of incompetent and in disarray, that's why bam is getting a little sulky, why instead of listening to the concerns of the people guilty mainly of having the temerity to dear disagree with them, this president instead dismisses them. dismisses them as part of a republican conspiracy, never mind the hearing i went to today

had plenty of people carrying professionally made signs handed to them by obama supporters and bam dismisses health care critics as puppets by insurance companies and dismisses detractors as lovers of gridlock and foes of change. what president obama fails to realize because his handlers would rather get rankled than listen to the populous, these are real people, real americans that want answers. here's an american montage, passion off the palisades, baby. from that hearing in new jersey was congressman steven rothman. >> i backed him. i'm a democrat but i will never vote for another democrat again if this bill goes through. >> it's not about democrats, republicans, or anybody else, our country does some things amazing, they should take their time. they want to rush this. >> if they in any way destroy medicare, i would be devastated, frankly, so would my pocketbook. >> if the garbage the insurance

companies want to perpetrate on us and say, here's more. why can't there be one plan for everybody? what you get, what i get, they get. >> people are legitimately angr angry. >> i'd like to introduce two special guests tonight. jay thomas who hosts his own radio show on sirius xm and probably recognize him from cheers and played eddie la beck and murphy brown and comedian commentator from wsa radio and some people say are kind of funny. the pressure is on, nick. do you think the opposition to obama-care is one big fake republican fueled conspiracy? >> no, i don't. those are real people. this is a real issue. they're really pissed off about it because it's personal this time. >> you can say pissed because i said it in the opening. >> i notice you said this is from the heartland. they have jersey accents in the heartland. these are real issues, how many

times do you get to yell at your congressman face to face. this is beautiful. >> isn't that part of the democratic process anyway, isn't that what obama supporters should be doing to these, too. >> looked like you were talking to the parents of the sopranos. i don't know how you found that group. i don't think it's all fueled by republicans. i'm sure they were handing stuff out. it's kind of ridiculous he's in this battle. i think he's going to lose it. it's kind of sad. i was saying to nick before, 70% of the people have insurance. the problem is, it's not a nationwide problem, it's like homelessness. >> indeed, 70% offer the people who have insurance kind of like their insurance, fine with it. >> or dealing with it. >> he's fighting something that isn't nationwide. >> the so-called 47 million who don't have it, you know, most of them are eligible for it, they just don't get off their butt and go get. >> it the congressman said it's 45 million, round numbers, 15 million want it but don't qualify, they're not poor enough

to qualify but meanwhile there's 15 million that could get it if they would sign up for medicare they're already eligible and even 15 million choose not to have it choose to do without. >> we ought to have health care stamps like food stamps and have the picture offer c. everett coop on it. you break your arm, you need to check-up, you need a prostate exam, there's a picture of glenn beck on that one and they check your prostate. i don't know why he doesn't give pa packages to people who can't afford health care and it's redeemable? i tell you it's a power grab for the government. >> a power grab for the government. >> that's all it is. they want to control more of your life. that's all it is about. it's not about health care at this point. >> that seems to be what a lot of opponents -- >> i'm not angry at the government. now that they took over gm i will stand at the post office to get an oil change. i'm not angry at the government as everybody else is.

i wake up the lights come on, streets are great, firemen come. i have a different feeling about it. i have always paid a lot of taxes and never complained about. >> it the lights will cost a lot. you will get mad. >> i don't mind helping to pay for what we get in the united states. >> obama was such a masterful campaigner and ran a brilliant election canal pai call pain whereas republicans ran a bad campaign. he gambled huge and staked his entire presidency it seems on this plan. he could suffer a real blow if it doesn't work out. nick, do you think that's the real reason the opposition is coming after us because they want to weaken his entire presidency or truly upset about the plan. >> they're coming out. what is the hurry? it's a thousand page bill. what is the hurry to push this through? they wanted it passed by the end of august. this is 5% of the economy. this guy has never run anything. 5% of the economy.

>> gdp. >> gdp. you will ram it down our throat by what november? what is the hurry? why not use the states as laboratories and try to figure this out. >> i was hope iing my gosh, if can make health care more efficient because doctors often do practices proven to be wrong and stick to the same stuff. 50% of all spinal fusion surgeries fail and they continue to do it. 50-50% chance of success, we are focusing how to be better and now focus who will pay for it, meaning the rich. >> if there was tort reform. i don't know how much money you give somebody if they're injured or a malpractice, but if you could lower how much money a person can get when a doctor does have to pay malpractice insurance and lawyers, i don't think we'll ever have that. that's the first thing you have to do. >> the state of massachusetts alone has $1.4 billion a year in defensive medicine, guys running test this is a don't need. at a hearing today in new jersey a doctor stood up, said i'm

ordering dozens of tests everyday i know are not necessary because i have to protect myself against lawsuits yet they left lawsuit reform out of this reform bill. >> who put obama in office. >> tort lawyers gave him a ton of money. >> exactly. let's bring in the rest of tonight's real deal squad. here is julie raginsky, democratic strategist, tanya acker, lawyer and "huffington post" blogger and republican strategist and ben ferguson, radio show host. guys, a couple ground rules before we begin. let's see if we can go the entire show before anyone saying let me finish and please keep your bites shorter and faster so you don't have to ask to let you finish because you're finished before anyone had a chance to interrupt you. julia, it looks like this entire health care debate is heading south on obama. >> i still believe we will get health care reform in some shape or form. you're right. obama has staked too much political capital not to see

this through, so has the democratic party that runs both houses of congress. i don't know what we will get but predict we will get some meaningful health care reform before the year is out. >> i think obama is really stretching when he talked about his dead grandmother wasn't sure if she should get a hip replacement the end of her life, said he would have paid for it out of his own pocket but doesn't think this can sustain that type of thing. if you're using your dead grandmother to tell people how bad it will be, seriously, that's a bad talking point. i think he's in trouble. >> he did not cover himself in glory when he likened his health care plan to the post office and how badly it competes with fedex and u.p.s. >> i think invoking your dead grandmother is much better than making up lies and telling the american people a bunch of made-up crap. can i say that on tv. >> what did i make up. >> hang on a second. it's not just you my friend but the notion they're going to be death squads and death panels

and death panels all this stuff. that's why you're seeing a lot of opposition because people are responding to bad -- >> what you have is a worst case scenario for the dems there, pushing the most unpopular program in about a generation, not only are they doing that, they're blasting and calling un-american anyone taking it on. >> no, they're not. >> let me throw this question out. here's a question for tanya and julie, see if i can get an answer on this, i've been asking this all over, no dems will answer it. do you two believe most of this rage is generated by the conservative media, do you two believe that. >> no. i believe a lot of rage is very genuine because i think people have been getting tons of bad information. i went to this town hall meeting with dennis there. were people outside the town hall meeting equating barack obama to adolph hitler. do you know how offensive that is? you have sarah palin -- let me -- sarah palin --

>> let me hear from nick. he'll be funnier. >> they invoked hitler. the left has never done that. >> no, i don't remember that we have. >> for bush, come on. >> it should have been stalin for god's sake. >> you have the wrong guy. >> that's beside the point. >> you do you know why barack obama -- >> i want to answer jack's question, do i think all these people are republican stooges? absolutely not. i do think they're the victims of a deliberate campaign of misinformation when you have somebody running to be my vice president, sarah palin running to be vice president of the united states and she goes on and suggests barack obama wants to in still a bunch of death panel panels? >> you're saying what -- you're sighing -- by the way, that's another guideline when the anchor raises their voice everyone suddenly goes totally quite eat. this is like thanksgiving at my house. >> the problem tanya is, jay thomas, you step in. i don't think this opposition is because a couple people heard a

couple silly stupid lie, this on sis is more basic than that. >> i will admit i mentioned health care on my show as all political and serious. it was 80-20 against. i think it's because 70% of people -- all of us have health care, everybody talking tonight. it's nothing affecting everybody, they will lose something, fear of the unknown but he is in real trouble. he should back up. he should -- listen, i'd rather him being fooling with the war and the economy than health car care. >> before i slap all of you -- >> that's a better technique. thank you. thank you very much. we will be back. any way you put it, to me, it's bad medicine. next up, move though markets. a big day for the bulls, s&p and nasdaq all jumping more than 1%. a little later, much more on america's new civil war over health care. >> it's unclear.

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the markets were up across the board today. all scoring more than 1% gains, bob pisani took it all in from any new york stock exchange. >> the economic activity leveling out helped the stock market a little bit. home builders were a mover early on. look at toll brothers, they reported buying homes increased year-over-year, the first time we saw an increase in four years. financials did well although volumes on the light side. insurance companies like hartford were strong and citi was strong. applied materials and the third biggest pc maker in the world talked about improved demand in the notebook market. and the medical billing priced at $15.50.

>> now, let's get the real deal with bulls and bears. first bulls, ben north, paul of heritage capital and ron shaw, is it gina or gina. >> gina. >> and lee munson. to my utter dismay he was a bull and he has lost his nerve and soul and spirit. jay thomas and nick are in the mix as well. let's put you here. you've been bullish every time you're on the show and i'm reading notes looks like you're getting to be an nanby-panby, a fraidy-cat. >> i'm not here to be bullish, i'm here to be right. yesterday, i was nervous about the market action, didn't expect the sell-off we saw. we have a lot of resistance, you have been a fan of retracements

we're getting. i was one of the few traders making money on the short side citing the fed move. i'm short term bearish, long term bullish. >> dan north, lee munson, take some chips off the table, the dow rises 120 points today. you get stung if you lose your nerve. >> oh! i think we're definitely bullish on the economy, no question about that we've been coming out of the recession some time now. if you look at the economy in the immediate or long term and want to grow the stock market is the place to be. we've come awfully fast there. may be a bit of retracement, in the long term, a very good bet. >> jay thomas, i've been arguing, you're a radio host and get middle america, i've been arguing this recovery everyone else says is poky and punk might be better than a lot of people think and would send stocks up

more. what is your gut telling you? >> i live in hollywood. i think this is all pr, to be honest, this reminds me when you get divorced, they go, you will be better in a couple months. i think we're in for a very painful year, think we're in for a painful next year. so many people have lost their jobs, why everybody is working so hard and productivity went up because they're afraid to lose their jobs. i'm also in real estate, you can buy anything you want, housing goes up. in super bo in santa barbara california, houses are selling low and i think it's all band-aids and cash for clunkers. when an $800,000 house sells for $350,0 $350,000, i think the person who bought it for $350,000 add to the economy will add to wealth. >> dennis, what you're talking about is deflation, the biggest problem we're facing. >> come on! >> $800,000 to $300,000 one word for it, deflation. >> there was a bubble.

deflation is off. wire not worried about inflation, not deflation. i thought you were supposed to be a bull. >> i am a bull. i'm more worried about deflation than inflation. bernanke would celebrate and dance around wall street if he could put inflation back into the economy. i think we will go to 10,000 by the end of the year. >> i like that! >> do you think lower commodity prices will give head winds to the components of the s&p 500? do you think if we deflate on commodity prices, it's good for stocks. >> the whole correlation for commodity, in the '90s, it was the opposite. commodities went down down down down, the market went up up up up. all of a sudden, a button was switched this decade where commodities and stocks and everything started to correlate. that's not good. >> to ron shaw for a more bearish view. i think you bears are getting it wrong in terms of pace of

recovery. business has cut back so deep and so fast, inventories so low, we could see a much bigger rebound than you know. >> you hit the nail on the head. i think the key for a rebound here is going to be growth and expansion. the way we get that is overseas. our consumers are not yet buying, businesses not spending at increased levels. the fed is doing a good job to buy time for american companies, they're only doing half the job, the other half is incentivize companies to go overseas to get revenues and growth, the only way we're out of it. >> are we going to wrap now, guys? control room. we're going to rap. we will be getting back to the battle over health care next. can this thing ever get passed? first more on my big day in the field. >> half the people are not reading it and passing bills they're not reading. >> this is pure propaganda. unadulterated propaganda. >> i can tell you, it's a fraud. taking its rightful place

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all the time i hear from carping critics on the blog telling me i'm out of touch and should get out of the comfy confines of my office. i don't have an office, i have a desk. today, i did get away from the desk and into the sunshine of the real world. here's another psychology of sa

dissent into the heartland. >> i guess i amnesty one of those denying they will measure health care and the government will make all the decisions who will live and die that is not acceptable, period. >> the anger over health care reform has hit president obama where it has to hurt worst, poll numbers a. new rasmussen poll shows public support at a new low for his health care reform push. some 53% of u.s. voters oppose the plan. that would be a majority, guys, here's the rub. bam, he says we have to have obama-care or our economy will be crippled. will he continue to hammer away at this even if it keeps costing him votes? let's bring back jewulie, tanya jack, ben and two new members, jay thomas and nick. should the president be worried about these poll numbers and do you think he would go so far as to cut way back on this because it will cost him re-election? >> i think what he has to be worried about is making sure he

effectively communicates what this program is and isn't. there are still too many people who believe the myth we just heard that last gentleman propagate the government will decide who lives and who dies. that isn't true. the administration and congress have to do a better job debunking a lot of these myths. >> you see the huge paternalism here. tanya comes from the point of view, well, the public is uninformed. that has the only reason they don't support this. once the are an enlightened, surely, they will support the democratic position. >> they're telling lies. >> you have your vice-presidential candidate the woman you supported last year telling people her son, trig palin with down's syndrome will be put to death under barack obama's plan, you don't think that's disinformation. >> that is a lie. >> that's not a lie. >> hold on a second. >> you're telling me. >> ben and then jay, go ahead.

>> you're telling me if i don't support the president in a bill, by the way, if it's so great it should not have had to have a fake deadline of august so we couldn't read it. the main point is this, you're telling me if i don't support this bill, i am un-american, like the democratic party? >> that's not what -- >> you're uninformed if you don't support the bill. >> disagree with legislation but don't disagree with it -- >> i do. i read the bill! >> ladies and gentlemen -- ladies and gentlemen, your anchor is speaking, be silent, please. >> if i may step in, you know what, the conversation is getting a little placid, not controversial enough so i have to go to another wrinkle. is the obama posse about to start playing the race card? will his supporters begin to depict opponents of obama-care as somehow actually opposed to obama because he's black? take a look at this. this swastika was painted on the office of congressman david

scott of georgia. the democrat. he's african-american, says it proves the battle over health care has turned into a race issue. the congressman adds he wanted to quote -- he wanted to make sure the racial hatred bubbling up does not win this debate. there's so much hatred out there for president obama. this in a page 1 story in the "new york times" today about the r raucous town hall meeting. an insinuating one li jay thomas, what in the hell does the race of the people at the hearing have to do with this debate. >> first of all, had arlen specter stayed a republican, we'd been fine. apparently wherever he moves, there's trouble. you know this free speech thing and everybody being able to speak, if i was a nut and i'm

sitting at my house and i knew they're having town hall meetings and i'm the old guy that yells at people on his lawn and stuff, i would show up at every one of these frigging things and do everything every person you've shown is a complete nut. they look like nuts. even the ones that have the obama signs. do you know any demonstrators? i've never met a demonstrator in my life. >> here's the difference. you're wealthy so this is funny to you. these people that are showing up, they're not wealthy. >> wait a second. dennis, dennis -- dennis -- may i please ask ben a question? >> turn off her mike, please. >> jay, be quiet, please. i want to get to nick depollo and ask do you sense the obama posse is starting to play the race card in this debate. look at those two examples. >> starting to? it's so ironic, who voted him in, white people, 68% of his

votes came from white people. this is hilarious. he's not really our first black president. this guy makes brian gumble look like joe frazier. you have to be kidding me. this is what the left does any time they're getting beat on an argument on facts. >> actually, nick, it is a man -- thank you -- it is a man -- it is a man running. >> one at a time. it's not going work. >> is your name julie or can i finish my thoughts bottom line is this, there is a guy running for rnc chair six months ago ran on the platform with barack obama the magic negroe he sent to the entire national committee. >> he didn't get elected. julie, julie, if i may ask a question, julie, how does that prove they're not playing the race card? >> it's relevant because -- it's relevant because racism, i am answering your question. >> the minute they start getting beat --

>> i'd like you to step in, tanya. >> what does she know about race. >> what do you say, tanya? >> i think anybody who doesn't agree with me all the time 100% of the time is racist, end of story, that's my conclusion. i'm joking, by the way. it's silly that you didn't get that. what i will say, i heard somebody outside one of these town halls i don't think it's everybody but i heard somebody, uninsured guy, poor guy, one of the poor working class white folks bern ferguson is talking about said part of the reason he was opposed to the plan was because obama was going to do more for minorities than -- >> let me -- >> ben ferguson. >> the real issue here is why can't barack obama let go? there's two reasons. you hit on one. if he cuts and runs the media won't think he's a true believer anymore. number two, there's a hidden agenda here. this is wealth redistribution. you don't have too think about this health plan long enough to realize this debate has nothing

to do with health. they're trying to, do through health changes, health reform what they can't overtly do through the tax code. that's the main reason obama can't let go. >> dennis. >> it's almost laughable. quite honestly the wealthy all have health care for the most part. it's people less wealthy that don't have health care. and i'm happen to give some of my taxes to ensure they have health care. >> i really hate this because i'm really liking this conversation. unfortunately we have to wrap. there's still a lot more ahead tonight on "cnbc reports." >> the american civil war over health care comes to new jersey. just yards from cnbc's front door. >> i want to know how come it took obama six months to pick a dog. a dog. six months. and the bill, he passes it without reading it. could someone explain that to me. >> dennis was there. tonight, much more on how obama

is battling back on the poll some say is becoming more unpopular by the hour. >> your government has lost the faith and trust of the american people. >> the bulls battle back. 120 point score for the dourks 1.3%. the s&p and nasdaq also jumped more than a percent. want the real deal with dennis kneale? you've got it. you're the colon lady! diarrhea, constipation, gas, bloating. that's me! can i tell you what a difference phillips' colon health has made? it's the probiotics. the good bacteria. that gets your colon back in balance. i'm good to go! phillips' colon health.

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k today. brita-- better for the environment i'm taking it to the streets, baby. i'm talking health care. concerned citizens are lashing out and speaking out. is it possible to have legitimate reform and still keep affo affordable care? exactly who will be paying for all of this? at today's health care meeting in englewood, new jersey. i'm calling it passion off the palisades. one doctor drew cheers for challenging obama-care. >> how can we expect any type of meaningful health care reform without meaningful tort reform as well? >> i want us and every american to have the same plan as our elected officials have. >> i don't know if we can afford that! if health care reform becomes

reality it will cost $1 trillion extra over the next ten years. where will that money come from? look in the mirror, guys, you are going to be the one whose will pay. let's get our expanded real deal squad back in here, julia, tanya, jack, ben, jay, and nick. jay thomas, so far, the only answer who will pay for it seems to be anybody who earns over say $200,000 a year. >> you know, i think if you have a 52 inch tv and your kids all have cell phones and have x-boxes and you don't have insurance, i don't feel sorry for you at all. i want to ask jewulia a questio we're sort of on the same side here. don't you think it's an issue not enough americans care about, that's why it's going to be defeated. reagan couldn't do it. nixon tried it. truman tried to do it. i don't think it's important enough to a large number of americans. >> i think you're right, that obama needs to be much more concise and clear as to why they

should care about i. they should care about it because they pay $1100 per family every time somebody without insurance goes to the emergency room. should care about it because the federal budget cannot be sustained if health care continues to grow. >> let me ask you this. >> it's not a crisis. >> it is a crisis. >> it's not a crisis. >> before we socialize fully one-fifth of the economy, can anybody here, julie, tanya or anybody, tell me the name in the 230 year history of the united states of a single government bureaucracy that has ever worked efficiently? give me one name. >> the post office. >> what about the army? >> i don't know, the army, navy, military, pentagon. >> the right wing loves the army. i'd like to close the army down. >> i love the army but dod. >> shut the department of transportation down mu. shut it down. >> i wills to a question to nick. >> can say, he mentioned these are all myths being brought up

like death panels. all's you have to do is look to uk or canada. we have evidence it doesn't work. it's not all based on myth. >> look at the statistics. >> what do you mean it's not true. >> it's not true. >> look at the money -- >> hey, people don't leave this country to go to other countries to get health care, it's the other way around. >> yeah, nick. >> the canadian system. >> if i could please be the conductor here, tah-dah. tanya, go ahead. >> thank you, dennis. the notion that a canadian health care system is on the table is a red herring. canada's health care system is not an option. a single-payer system is not an option. >> that's not what the president thinks. before he ran for national office, he supported a single payer system. >> good grief. what we're talking about right now are the proposals on the table, jack. since you're so good at asking questions, let me ask you do,

you believe any of the proposals on the table would require the government to decide when old people die. is that true? will there be death panels. >> not directly. >> the indirect death panel. >> if you want to know who's lying in this debate, barack obama, number one, when he started campaigning, this was born in deceit he told the american people on his own website this would cost the treasury zero. that's why he's having a lot of these -- >> there's an option coming out of the house that's budget neutral. >> i have too wrap. i think there's a difference between lying and just being wrong. that is obama's problem on health care. the hottest issue of the day, american health care, our debate just getting started tonight. when we come back, two critical questions, will obama-care, will it help or hurt? will it even pass, guys? but, first, more passion on the pal p

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will health care pass? will it help or hurt the economy? let's get everyone in. we have like ten. guys, here has the first thing i want to do. >> grr! >> i want a yes or no answer to the question, will call you out by name. will obama-care pass this year? jay thomas. >> no. >> nick. >> yes. >> julia. >> yes. >> tanya. >> yes. >> jack. >> yes, in part. >> ben ferguson. >> yeah. >> oh, man. we've got -- how about lee? >> no. >> ron? >> no. >> dan? >> no, not the way it is. >> paul? >> no. >> here's what just happened. the wall streeters among, you the bulls and bears, whether they're bullish or bearish, they

all say it's not going to pass. this is why you see on wall street on the markets today and recent days health care stocks are actually going up. insurer stocks are actually going up because wall street is assuming it will not pass. look how many yes, sir we got. jay thomas was a no. >> no. >> nick said yes and julie said yes and tanya said yes and ben said yes and jack said yes. ja jack, why will it pass if it's such a horrible thing and americans are smarter than that. >> because i think the president doesn't want to lose his jesus-like standing with the media and will spend all his political capital. i think obama will spend himself all the way down to 30% to get it done and think it will get done. >> jay thomas, you don't think that capital is enough to pass. >> i don't think it will pass. i don't think it's important enough to everyone. ben, what would the republicans like to see happen? go away or do they care about this health care at all? >> i think they want some sort of reform.

i think that's why i said yes, not in the form it's in now. the biggest problem is when obama's campaigning he said this is going to save us money. the congressional budget office said this will not save us any money. that's why the president is getting hurt right now. this plan as it is now saves us absolutely no money. that's what he ran on saving us money. >> julie, here's the thing, obama is depicting any opposition as guy whose don't want reform at all instead of the idea we don't like your reform mr. president. what about that. >> what's the president's reform? the president has not endorsed any piece of legislation. >> come on! >> an overhaul. >> that is not true. listen. if i may answer your question -- >> he's not responsible? >> the senate is going to pass legislation which i believe will be drastically different from what the house passed. those two bills will have to be reconciled before they're signed by the president. we have no idea what the final draft of this legislation. >> why was he pushing for august to be the deadline if he didn't

know or endorse anything? that's why that this is ridiculous. >> give it up. the deadline has i think it will be definitely good. any time you get the government involved in what's normally run by private enterprise it's a bad thing. there's waste and abuse everywhere and the notion it's funded by rooted out, waste and abuse. >> on the bearish side we go to ron, will it be good or bad for

the market if obamacare does not pass? >> if it does not pass it's good for the market. i think the market believes there's no risk of this plan passing. if you look aetna, united health they're doing well, up from the june lows. the market doesn't believe it's going to go through. >> nick, back to the heartland, why do you think this baby will pass if it's so awful? >> who is going to stop it? >> i think the protesters you heard from today. those constituents. >> if they listen to the constituents of course they'll stop it. they should respect the constituents and obviously the vitriol out there. >> they should. >> julies aaring before, let me ask you this, were you arguing the president is not responsible for the democratic bills on health care? >> no, thank you for twisting my words. that's not at all what i was saying. to be quite clear the president himself unlike bill clinton in 1993 has not proposed a specific

piece of legislation. >> are you saying -- >> he has proposed principles and hopefully they'll get incorporated. >> you can't incorporate principles. you have to incorporate actual things. >> jack and julie, i'm about to write a movie and the two characters you're playing are going to fall in love at the end of this. i'm liking that. >> you know what? i would stop that wedding. >> stop that unhole yea lins. all right, guys, thank you very much. so many of you, i wasn't allowed to be on the screen. that's how much clout i have here. thanks for being with us. great night. next up, my prognosis on health care. i am back faster than you can say turn your head and talk. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,

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♪ you better call me a doctor, help me, overloaded ♪ until now, guys, president obama has been the perfect politician. his tactic strategy, organization, add up to one of the most potent campaign machines in modern history. but lately, the president is for the first time losing control of the agenda. he's fallen behind in his own debate and the reason is he's getting bad advice from his advisers. instead of healing the rift that divide americans the ethos that bands prom this his campaigns he

tumbled into the politician of division. obamacare is dismissed conjures up dark images of special interest and dishonest insurance companies, spends a lot of time highlighting some of the bizarre rumors when he should focus on trimming his program and doing a better job. the president is hemmed in most of all by his own promise. he made a ridiculous promise when he ran for president and that's what's called a ridiculous promise, no one earning less than $250,000 a year would face any tax increase at all but his health plan is too fat, too big, too costly, expects 2 million million to pay the costs. you face some tough choices, themr. president. you should cut the program back. zoom up on two groups, 15

million people who want health insurance but can't afford it and 15 million people who have insurance but pay for it themselves, don't get it through that iremployers. ensure high cost product care. you've got to go less or raise taxes on all of us because the two just don't jive. thank you for watching. i'm dennis kneale. see you tomorrow night. he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old! - oh, come on. - enough! you get half and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah-- his and hers. - ( crowd gasping ) - ( chirp ) van gogh? ( chirp ) even steven. - ( chirp ) mansion. - ( chirp ) good to go. ( grunts ) timber! ( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu? - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) joint custody. - phew! - announcer: get work done now. communicate in less