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tonight on "the kudlow report," president obama took his town hall health care defense to montana today and blamed tv coverage and insurance companies for all his problems in selling the government takeover. check this out. >> i know there's been a lot of attention paid to some of the town hall meetings that are going on around the country especially when tempers flare. tv loves a ruckus. >> yeah, tv loves a ruckus. he also wants to tax richard and he continues to fall behind in the polls. so can republicans ride this protest to a congressional victory in 2010? we have an all-star panel to discuss it all. plus, power, money and sex. bernard madoff's mistress comes clean. but will 20 years of pillow talk dig up any more dirt on his

multimillion-dollar ponzi scheme? and the new bull market took a breather for the day and the week but pullbacks are healthy. and today's numbers show rising production with zero inflation, real wages going up along with producti productivity and profits. i am sticking with the new bull market story. fasten your seat belts. "the kudlow report" begins right now. good evening, everyone. i'm larry kudlow. welcome back to "the kudlow report" where we believe free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. well, it ain't exactly free market capitalism to me, that is the threatened government takeover of health care, but president obama was out and about. in montana today trying to make the sale. nbc's steve handelsman has the full report. hello, steve. >> reporter: larry, thanks. democrats, his democrats, have been taking a drubbing but

president obama's aides say no democrat does a better job selling health care reform, nobody does better, they say, encountering critics than the president himself and a high-profile chance in montana. he also had a chance to reformulate this health care reform plan to insurance reform which is what he's been trying to do saying and now quoting that he doesn't want government bureaucrats making health care decisions for americans. neither, he says, to applause does he want insurance company bureaucrats making health care decisions. here's the president in montana. >> we are held hostage by health insurance companies who deny coverage or drop coverage or charge fees that people can't afford at a time when they desperately need care. >> reporter: and this is a guy who said tv loves a ruckus. no doubt that's true. but there was really no ruckus in this town hall. no yelling. but there was a guy who actually did get up and use the term bull to the president of the united

states after they discussed cable tv news. here's randy raferty from montana. >> i believe in our constitution, and it's a very important thing. i also get my news from the cable networks because i don't like the spin that comes from them other places. >> oh, you've got to be careful about them cable networks. go ahead. go ahead with your question. >> we keep getting the bull. that's all we get is bull. you can't tell us how you're going to pay for this. the only way you're going to get that money is to raise our taxes. you said you wouldn't. >> you are absolutely right that i can't cover another 46 million people for free. but let's assume it costs about $30 billion a year over ten years, we do have to come up with that money. when i was campaigning, i made a promise that i would not raise your taxes if you made $250,000 a year or less. that's what i said. but i said that for people like

myself who make more than that, there's nothing wrong with me paying a little bit more in order to help people who got a little bit less. that was my commitment. >> reporter: the president got a lot of applause in montana, a place with two senators right behind him and he kept referring to max, max, max, max baucus, the top democrat in the finance committee, putting together a deal. incidentally his partner, chuck grassley of iowa is the one who yesterday or day before kind of validated these unfounded rumors of death panels, so that should be an interesting get together when the august recess is over and max and chuck get back together here in the u.s. senate. the president tomorrow holds another town hall, larry, in colorado. his goal, it's pretty clear, is to get americans to feel health care reform as both urgent and doable and to counter his critics who say let's slow down. larry? >> steve, just a factual point,

do you know if senator max baucus has completely agreed with senator grassley to pull out the elderly counseling some people have called death boards? >> reporter: i don't know. they're savvy senators. when something has as bad a name as that, their original idea over in the house was simply to fund one appointment every five years. no more with the doctor so an individual, a family could sit down and discuss end of life things. that's not a big deal. they're sure to get rid of it. i would say on the house side, too, because it has such a bad name. >> steve handelsman, thank you so much. so is president obama doing himself any good traveling around the country? to cnbc contributor and syndicated columnist jerry boyer, democratic strategist liz chatterdon and nationally syndicated columnist with scripps howard news service. hello, everybody. so let me get this right. attacking tv. attacking insurance companies and attacking rich people.

does president obama look strong or weak? is he defensive or offensive here? >> completely defensive. he's completely on the defense and he should be on the defense. and he's going to continue to be on the defense. picking this fight with sarah palin. you can scoff all you want but in my experience when someone laughs at someone else's idea it's because they can't refute them. have you read section 1233 of this legislation which mandates every five years a doctor being compensated for having this end of life counseling and mandate they specifically mention hospice care and mandate that they specifically mention the benefits of hospice care? have you read that, keith? >> jerry, i'm so disappointed. after everybody has discredited the rumor -- >> have you read that question, keith? it's a yes or no question. have you read it? >> first of all, there are five different bills. not one has been approved or endorsed -- >> h.r. 3200. have you read that section, yes

or no? >> the word death panel don't appear anywhere in there except for sarah palin's rhetoric. both sarah palin and chuck grassley support end of life voluntary counseling themselves. >> have you read the section? have you read the section? >> it is outrageously false. >> have you read that section? >> hang on. hang on. keith, please finish your point and then we're going to move on. >> i just can't tell you how disappointed i am jerry is continuing this way. >> i'm disappointed you're supporting legislation you haven't read. >> actually has anybody in washington read this legislation? that's an interesting question. liz, welcome to the program. you've heard our opening dialogue. i want to come back to the point, is mr. obama doing himself any good? does he look like he's on the offense or defense? does he look strong or weak? i think that's the biggest political question. >> absolutely which? >> i think he looks strong. i am absolutely saying that it is important for him to be out there be a he looks strong and

presidential. does he look defensive? yeah. let's be honest the entire country is on the defensive after the onslaught of radical crap that has been spewed at these town halls. everybody in america is on the defensive right now. so does he look defensive? no. to me he looks presidential. he is talking about the facts. this death board, that is not a fact. that is a lie. everybody who's read that bill, including me, knows that's a lie. all right? >> i'm sorry, you've read that bill? >> absolutely i've read that bill. i've read three versions of the five, thank you very much. you know what, you don't even know what you're talking about. >> we're going to have -- >> it's not what it says. >> what does it say? >> we're going to have to get someone to read the bill on 0 the air, but before we do that to roy murdoch. rasmussen poll very interesting. shows 42% favor this. 53 against. on seniors, seniors are opposed to the plan by 20 points. the pay to play betting parlor

shows now only a 35% profitability. about three weeks ago it was a 50% probability and i want to put the cnbc stock markets on this. insurance companies have had a great month despite the threat mr. obama's offensive to get health care. humana is up 23%. united health up 13%. aetna 7.5%. wellpoint up 4%. and, in fact, speaking of price controls and government takeovers, even they have done well with merck leading the way, pfizer and johnson & johnson. looking at these data points, the protests, the populous protests, have they dwon good for mr. obama or harm to his program? >> i think they've done tremendous harm to his program. i think what they've illustrated is the american people are turning out by the thousands across the country to express to their representatives their

concern and frustration. this piece of legislation which is enormous. it's like war and peace without the plot, very convoluted. no one understands it. if you don't understand it while it's being debated, imagine how difficult when they're trying to implement it. president obama said some things that are not so. he said aarp endorsed the proposal. they have not done so. he's gone around the country saying if you like your health insurance, you can keep it. if you're working for a company and your boss says i don't like my current health plan, i'm going to go for the public option, you're now in the government option because your boss decided that. not you. i wish we had individually owned plans so people can own, take from job to job or from job to self-employment and have that as private property like your own life insurance which you own. why should people have to rely on their bosses. go to own your own plan and carry it throughout your own career and be the person who makes these decisions rather than rely on gocht or your boss to decide which health care you have. >> let me ask you on the way

out -- we're going to come back for another long segment. there's a rumor going around that president obama went to montana to play up to senior senator max baucus the chairman of the very powerful senate finance committee which at the end of the day is going to have a lot more influrns than any other committee. baucus has said no government insurance plan. he wants in exchange some kind of cooperative exchange and that's what the rumor is. is the government insurance plan dead? maybe that's why private insurance companies have done so well in the stock market. >> no, the public option is not dead, larry. i think what you're seeing is max baucus wanted to work with chuck grassley across the aisle to come with the bill. but chuck grassley is off the reservation with this death panel nonsense like jerry boyer. i think where we are is a place we're going to move forward. there will be a bill. i wouldn't bet against this if i were you, larry. what deroy said a moment ago about people coming out, americans coming out by the thousands.

well, yeah, they are coming out by the thousands. we had 100 million more people who voted in the last election and they voted for this. >> no, they didn't. >> where are they? >> i didn't vote for this. i see far, far more opponents than supporters. >> jerry boyer -- >> the popularity down to 47%. >> this is a very important assertioith is making. do you believe 100 million people voted for a government takeover of health care insurance? >> health care reform. >> absolutely they did not. candidate obama pretended he was going to do something else other than this and now there's an enormous amount of buyer's remorse. >> laugh all you want but it's the truth. >> both candidates mccain and obama talked about health care reform. i'll grant you that. do you think max baucus has effectively ended that as an option and we'll have some kind of exchange or co-op tiff?

>> i think an exchange. i think the government option has been tainted by all of this nonsense and it will be tougher to pass. . >> you think it's dead cincinnati. >> close. >> we've had trouble in this country with the airlines, for example. no one said let's have a federal airline. no public option for airlines. >> when i come back i want to talk about his attack on insurance companies, raising more taxes on rich people. he said we can get a little more but that's a little more more because we're already raising taxes. everybody please stay put. we have a lot more work to do. i don't know, mr. obama offense or defense, looked pretty defensive to me. coming up, the new bull market took a breather for the day and the week. you know, folks, pullbacks are healthy at least that's my take. we'll get your market strategies for the next week from two of the investment world's biggest titans. and later on cheating investors and cheating in bed.

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so in montana today mr. obama was out there attacking television, insurance companies and rich people. did he do himself any good or not? we're back with keith boykin, jerry boyer, liz chadderdon and deroy murdoch. let me run this rich people's tax hike for a second. take a listen. >> i believe in our constitution, and it's a very important thing. i also get my news from the cable networks because i don't like the spin that comes from them other places. >> you've got to be careful about them cable networks, though. that's okay. go ahead.

go on with your question. >> we keep getting the bull. that's all we get is bull. you can't tell us how you're going to pay for this. the only way you're going to get that money is to raise our taxes. you said you wouldn't. you are absolutely right that i can't cover another 46 million people for free. but let's assume it costs about $30 billion a year over ten years. we do have to come up with that money. when i was campaigning, i made a promise that i would not raise your taxes if you made $250,000 a year or less. that's what i said. but i said that for people like myself who make more than that there's nothing wrong with me paying a little bit more in order to help people who have a little bit less. that was my commitment. >> undoubtedly he's referring to the 5% surcharge on successful earners and the payroll taxes, too. jerry boyer, let me go to you. this is one of those cases where i want to ask is mr. obama being

defensive here? we're always taxing the rich people once. this would be a second time. he said he wouldn't go above clinton but in effect he's going to go above the clinton tax rate level. we'll get keith involved in this in just a minute. is this one of those areas he looks defensive rather than offensive? >> yeah, and this is one of those areas he looks mathematically impaired. $30 billion a year. who believes that? congressional budget office? any outside consulting firms? the cbo refuses to go below $1 trillion not $300 billion and private groups estimated twice that. we're just making numbers up. on the surface, just look at it, we're going to do 50 million people for $30 billion a year? what's that? that doesn't make any mathematical sense whatsoever. maybe these other panelists can explain the math to me. >> he does say, hang on, i can't cover another 46 million people for free.

that's kind of a bonus number, that 46 million but let's not go there. i think when he goes down this road not only does he repeal his promise of not raising the clinton tax rate, he also really reopens the issue that folks have known about that this is a massive budget buster and a massive deficit buster. aren't you worried about that? >> i don't know where to begin, larry. first of all, jerry is completely wrong. what obama was saying when he mentioned $300 billion, he recognized that wasn't the total cost. it is the amount of money they haven't agreed on. i want the entire town hall meeting. >> where do we get the trillion from? >> basically you had to watch the town hall. the other $700 billion has been taken care of from conversations on the hill. >> i'm sorry. i want the details. it's been taken care of how? how do we get the trillion? that's my question. >> let me get back to larry's question. i do worry about the deficit. i think obama made a good point today that this proposal is paid

for unlike, for example, with president bush's medical prescription drug bill which was $500 billion. no plan to pay for it. >> but, keith, just like president bush, the congressional budget office says no. and i think this goes to one of the biggest problems that mr. obama has, the congressional budget office, okay, you can call them fishy if you want. maybe they have to register with the white house web operation but the reality is they're killing them on this stuff and instead of talking about his benefits so-called for health care reform he is caught up in a fiscal debate. let me go to liz on this. i'll get your take from the democratic side. this is a fiscal debate that can only hurt obama. that's my feel, liz. >> fiscal debates are always difficult whether you're a republican or a democrat. nobody likes talking about the cost of anything. the one trillion is over a series of years and, yes, they've already figured out how

to pay to 50% to 70% of it through various ref flew shifts as well as cost savings from other programs. >> in english please? >> maybe you should go read the bill because it's all out there for everybody. >> please show me where. >> deroy murdoch, let me ask you this. when president obama plays on the fiscal field as he had to today and he really had to come back to it again and again because even this hand-picked audience wants to worry about budget busting and deficit busting and making america grow. deroy, doesn't this hurt his whole case? >> i think it does. when you're recovering from about $12 trillion spent on the bailout, $787 billion in additional stimulus, the omnibus bill, it's an enormous amount of money. the trillion dollars over ten years, if we're lucky the price will stay there. there's recent research from the joint economic committee. they looked at the original

medicare estimates how much that program would cost. back in 1967, it said in 1990 we spent $110 million. there's another program we were supposed to spend a billion dollars in 1992 for some hospitals in poor populations. they spent something like $17 million. very rarely do they estimate the amounts and get it correct. >> do you think american taxpayers understand that, deroy? >> i'm not sure if they do but they should be educated on that. it would be one thing if the price tag stays put. the price tag of the government gets involved in new programs it goes up, up and away. the same thing will happen here and good luck trying to get the money together. >> let me take this to the next step. this will be our next round. jerry boyer, let me start with you. a lot of elderly who oppose this according to the polls know darned well that the budget busting myth of this bill will cut back substantially on their medicare benefits which is how they live.

and the next question is if they know that and they're 20 points against this bill, will they rally to elect a republican congress in 2010? >> they might. larry, you've got it. this is how we bring "a" and "b" block together. the life issues, end of life issues are related to the budget issues. if you have a government program with free benefits, the only way to, quote/unquote, bend the cost curve, is to ration care and that's generally done for the elderly. >> let me just say something. >> keith boykin, not on the substance. i want to know a political question. if the revolt of the seniors would seem so apparent from the polls, willre-elect? >> most receive government health care. medicare is a government program. secondly the real danger here for the republicans is they overplay their hand and you start to see all this raucousness with the members of

congress and there's going to be a backlash against that and people are not going to be happy and republicans are going to get hit. >> so far the only backlash i see is running against the thing. >> liz chadderdon, the last word. will seniors propel the gop in 2010 because of their dissent from this plan? >> no. absolutely not. democrats will remain in control in 2010. >> shocked. i'm shocked. >> they're not in control now. >> oh, yeah, right. >> we're going to leave it there. thank you. friday evening. keith boykin, jerry boyer, liz chadderdon, deroy murdoch. great to see you again. i call great buying opportunities. a couple of heavyweight investors will tell you how to play it. we have some good economic news today. no inflation, stronger growth in production. it could be a turning point. the recession is over. the recovery begins and the kudlow report has much more work to do.

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way, way up from those marlos, that's a one-month -- let's see that big climbup. there are the lows from march and here we are now. 6 63.2 and the university of michigan, a four-month low. an overwhelming number of people said their personal financial situation had deteriorated. that and the lackluster consumer price index hurt. jcpenney down sharply. target and walmart, too. abercrombie & fitch and tiffany's were up. abercrombie & fitch had a stronc outing. boeing had a wrinkle in plans for a new 787 dreamliner. the skinl of those planes could -- could -- impact delivery. next week lots of housing data, wholesale prices, more earnings including the last two dow components. hewlett-packard and home depot. we have a lot to come up with. we only pulled back a little bit. >> half a percentage point for

all the indexes. is it possible to put that consumer confidence thing back on the full screen? is that possible? i don't know if we can do it here or not or do these boards just run? let's put the consumer confidence. the trend is your friend. you lost a little. i don't know how to turn the thing up. look where you are up here. it's a little soft but i think there are too many people obsessing about this one particular stat. we're going to look at some very strong numbers on industrial production. the first increase since late last fall so that's great stuff. >> and, again, you look inside that number and what it was was people feeling the effects of the downturn. feeling worse about their financial situation but their outlook, their look going forward, is pretty good. >> all right, scott cohn, thank you very much. now it's time for today's speed trade. is today's market move just a short-term pullback? question mark.

we are joined by options action contributors mike and dan nathan of phoenix partners. hello, gentlemen. there you are. you have, dan, i want to get you first. you have 60 seconds. >> 60 seconds, larry, i want to tackle health care in 60 seconds. >> i want you to both let each other talk. >> listen, larry, we're going to go a bit lower here. your new bull market, you keep calling it every night. it's a bit dangerous. you have guests on your program who say fundamentals don't matter. fundamentals matter most right now. you've got to know what you own. you have to know your portfolio, how it's stress tested and the options market was relatively -- >> that's not 60 seconds. >> i have to go to mike cohn. the fundamentals get better. what's your take? pullback or not? >> i agree with you whole ha wholeheartedly and by the way a little bit of a pullback and consolidation doesn't mean it's over. let's focus on that. one of the things we're going to need to see is see this rally broaden out before we really

know it's going to have legs the rest of the year. eye i'd like to see walmart, procter & gamble, some of those names need to start participating. they haven't so far and they should. >> whip through with me do you think the bull market is over, yes or no? >> it's not a bull market. it's a bear market rally. >> mike, is the bull market over, yes or no? >> no. >> that's great. 60 seconds plus five or six. you can catch both of these great gentlemen tonight on options action and it's got a new time, 8:30 eastern. not so long from now. coming up next i believe it's the new bull market and pullbacks are healthy. we've got your market strategies for the next week, the investment world's biggest titans. by the way, i'm going to show you some real good economic news. still to come, money, power, sex right up our alley. bernie madoff's mistress comes clean today in a new book. but will 20 years of pillow talk dig up any more dirt on his multimillion-dollar ponzi

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i want to take a look at the bull market story.

we have richard, a chief economist bank of new york and chief investment strategist at dreyfuss corporation. welcome back, gentlemen. thank you for coming on. humor me for a minute. i want to look at very good news that somehow got lost in the shuffle today. the first one is this overall cpi. you are, wow, look at this. we are down still below zero. now basically when you take this and the core, the inflation rate in this country right now is zero. this isn't going to last forever. in the next two years it may go up. right now it is a very good story. second point that we got today and we lost track of this, this is the first way, the first increase of industrial production going back almost a year i believe october of last year. industrial production is one of the most important economic indicators. it is a coincident indicator, signaling with clarity for july that the third quarter we are in now is going to show positive

economic growth from the business side which creates income and wages for consumer spending. and finally this never -- nobody even talked about this. i pulled it off mark perry's website. real average hourly earnings in our noninflationary economy. this thing is up 5% over 0 the past 12 months. according to professor perry at the university of michigan this is the biggest yearly gain in the entire history of this series. that is real, average, hourly earnings, very important. that's the wage for us and consumer spending. so if production is going up, if inflation is zero and earnings are going up, then i would say to you we have a much more positive economic story than anything we've seen at least for a year. >> well, i think there are two things going on. one is sustainably bullish and one of them is a short-term

concern. what's sustainably bullish is we have a simultaneous worldwide economic expansion, practically every single country in the world will have a rise in third quarter gdp. and this is occurring all across the world. what is going to be a temporary concern is we're going to see a halving of the chinese growth rate. they ran at a 17% to 18% growth rate in the second quarter of 2009. they're going to crash about 8%. >> that's all very interesting. but i'm talking about improving economic stats here. we have a rise of industrial production for the first time in a long time. real average, hourly earnings. this is a series coming out of the cpi which itself is zero. i want to leave china to the chinese for a second here in the states. why don't people react more positively to these data today,

richard? >> i do think this chinese deceleration, which is deceleration back to a strong norm, is starting to enter into the market, and we've also had a sentiment shift. you saw "businessweek" today. they've got a bullish cover. that's always a concern. you saw the economists. they had a bullish cover. we're starting to see the short term things like insider sales. but the real story is that the u.s. economic recovery is real and sustainable and it's in the context of a real and sustainable global expansion. >> ron, equal time. real and sustainable, ron. he is talking about economic recovery. what's your take? >> larry, i feel like your alter ego coming on every week. we need your enthusiasm in the economy. i have to wear conservative ties. >> single-handedly i'm proving this baby. that's what i want to do in life. single-handedly.

>> well, i'll tell you -- >> two-thirds -- >> and it's not political. i don't care who the president is. i want american prosperity. >> two-thirds of all economic activity is created by the consumer and that's not going to change. and so when you look at the facts, the consumer is saving more, the consumer is paying down debt and the consumer is still worried about their jobs. that's all reflected in reducing consumer confidence. >> but, ron, with the greatest of respect i want to redraw and reinvite your attention to this chart. i don't know if you can see it on your monitor. real average hourly earnings up 5%. it is a combination of, yes, we've had sort of flat salaries but no inflation gives it a lot of purchasing power. this is a huge thing. >> it is, larry. >> and what's wrong with saving anyway, my friend? saving goes into investment for businesses. >> there's nothing wrong with saving. there's nothing wrong with paying down debt but it does mean reduced spending compared to where we came from.

so, you know, larry, until we have a sustainable or at least a stabilizing job market and we are creating some jobs which is going to give consumer confidence, i'm not saying we're going into a bear market but happy days are here again. i just need to come on the show. >> i don't want to go happy days but i want to say better days are here again. richard hoey, we're on the way out. what's your favorite investment theme right now? >> basically i think this is a sustainable world expansion. you've got to be along high-grade equities. speculative stocks, not for me but there's a lot of very attractive high-grade equity. >> recovery stocks, dick, you like industrials, commodities, how far do you go? techs? consumers? retailers? everyone is so morose. >> you have to believe this is a sustainable economic expansion. it's not a temporary phenomenon. this is going to be a sustained economic expansion and the fact

that everybody is so skeptical and worried whether it will be sustainable, it's not all priced in yet. >> there's your rebuttal but i want to ask you, ron, in view of your pes nichl regarding consumers, let me ask you, is it time to sell the retailers because the retail index has had a phenomenal run up over 60% since early march. >> you have to be cautious with any consumer discretionary spending just based on my theme. we do like infrastructure and all the infrastructure play, the power grid, we like those stocks. >> how much cash would you advocate right now? >> again, i'm just trying to keep away from thinking the market's going straight up. there are sectors you can invest in. you should have a certain amount in muni bonds. i'm being cautious. >> all right. i appreciate your realism. ron, thank you. richard hoey, thank you ever so much. coming up, madoff's mistress and the money. we're talking pillow talk here.

20 years. what did she know? when did she know it? you know, a lot can come out in a 20 had been year affair. i don't want to go down that road but i have to because she's writing a book and she's a little bit hypocritical and i want to know what the authorities are doing with this potentially key witness. you are watching "the kudlow report." look, the world is changing but i still believe in america. but did you know you also get hotel price assurance? it's a one-two punch of savings -- pow! pow! lower hotel booking fees mean you get a lower total price.

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bernard madoff had a mistress, and she is spilling the beans on their 20-year affair. there is a book coming out. "vanity fair" writer and cnbc writer vicky ward joins us now with the new ponzi scheme book. it's so exciting. it's great to see you. >> and you. so you want to know the story? >> everything. pillow talk and all. >> and what did she mean? okay. so our wharton school of

business grad and she says she had a 20-year love affair with convicted bernie madoff. she said she met madoff. which under her watch invested $40 million. weinstein who was married herself for 37 years appeared with eight other victims in marseillesing the emotional toll on her. >> we are in our own jails right now because of his actions. so that he's in jail on one hand he belongs there but we need to try to help ourselves get out of our jail now. >> madoff sentencing in june, weinstein spoke in court saying, i now that view that day as perhaps the most lucky day of my life. she described madoff as a beast. >> a beast. >> a beast that has stolen his own needs and livelihoods and

spoke of her family including parents and husband. her son, eric, even worked for madoff one summer. weinstein told cnbc in march that her husband questioned why they kept money with madoff. he felt that madoff's returns could have been better elsewhere. no, the family chose to keep their money with bernie madoff. there have been no reports thus far weinstein is under investigation or had any knowledge of the ponzi scheme during their 20-year affair. larry? >> do i believe that? 20 years -- let's set the table here. you did a great report. she's a professional lady. this is no total blonde ditz. she went to wharton from the pennsylvania. she was the financial officer. >> absolutely. >> the same pillow talk for 20 years. she can call him a beast, vicky

but he was her beast. do you really believe they never talked about the investments, that she parked in there for the company and her family? do i believe this? >> well, let's think about bernie madoff. i spoke to one of his victims today, thought he was one of his best friends. said he really never got close to her. let's just give her the benefit of the doubt for one moment, larry. there are women who sleep with men who think that they are very close to those men it's not always requited. for example, "the daily news" did break a story saying that bernie madoff had another mistress. and ruth madoff in this month's "vanity fair" -- >> did ruth madoff know about these mistresses? >> she says she did not. >> i just want to ask you one final question before we take a break and come back, how big is the pillow? you're sleeping on the same pillow for 20 years.

>> how big is the beast? >> how big is the beast? that's what we'll explore. vicky ward will stay with us. more details on this salacious madoff affair. i can't believe it. he had more than one affair. t monetary psychopath and cultural and socio psychopath.ea ld! - oh, come on. - enough! you get half and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah-- his and hers. - ( crowd gasping ) - ( chirp ) van gogh? ( chirp ) even steven. - ( chirp ) mansion. - ( chirp ) good to go. ( grunts ) timber! ( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu? - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) joint custody. - phew! - announcer: get work done now. communicate in less than a second with nextel direct connect. only on the now network. , hard of hearing and an people with speech dischities accessac.sprintrelay.com. of the world's most revered luxury sedan. this is a history of over 50,000 crash-tested cars...

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"vanity fair's" vicky ward is still with us.

joining us is private investigator to make this even more interesting, let's reset the stage. sheryl weinstein, the ceo of this hadassah fwrup, when the madoff ponzi scheme broke in court, she was interviewed. she said he was a beast. she forgot to tell us that she had a 20-year affair. so it was a beastly affair, pat. i want to know, i'm interested in pillow talk, 20 years on the same pillow, am i to believe this wharton mba professional lady got no information from madoff's operation? none? >> not for one microsecond, larry, do i believe. not for one second do i believe. we have to do the math. 20 years. let's just approximate they saw each other a couple times a week. let's make it two. three hours a shot, okay, give the beast from the east a little latitude. so we have six hours times 52

times 20 years, 10,000 hours? >> okay, guys. >> these are probably sleepaways, right? >> they're afternoon trysts. afternoon trysts. i read somewhere -- >> while ruth was in the office. >> well, not only that, somebody else would say when sheryl weinstein called, he would roll his eyeballs and then leave. >> roll his eyeballs, but he was beasting her over the years. >> men are men, larry. >> men are men. except for me. we know he's a huge -- >> you hit it before. listen, the guy's the bubonic plague. it just keeps getting worse with this guy. he wrecks families. he wrecked all these institutions. he wrecked her son. but you know what, the kid came in as an intern. she is sleeping with the investment adviser. weinstein's eric came in as an intern. >> he worked for madoff? >> he worked for madoff. the money he made he investeded with madoff. the. >> he didn't tell anybody

anything? you've done these cases before, okay, have you not? you've covered infidelity cases. how much does the woman get to know? how much does the spouse get to know? you have this illicit affair for 20 years. this is not a one-night stand. >> the spouse or the squeeze? we have the beast and the squeeze. 20 years. does anybody buy that ruth with 40 years didn't get it? cut it in half. 20 years. there's no way that she couldn't have known. it's impossible she couldn't. but the beauty -- one second. the beauty of it is this, dean will not shut up. he's not shutting up anytime soon. he's now in the metropolitan correctional center. >> do we think he had anything to do with sheryl weinstein? let me ask you this, do we think she knew the people in the madoff operation? she was an important investor with her husband. do we think she knew the office,

who was in the office, a small thing like that? >> absolutely. >> well, we're going to find out. she's written a book. >> i know. the book is out monday. this is friday night. i need your forecast. >> i think we're going to be really disappointed by this book. i don't think she understands the psychology of bernie madoff. >> she's in it for the money. >> i guess there must be some truth to that. should the victims share the royalties? >> absolutely. it's a criminal case. the son of sam law. >> the squeeze. the squeeze knows a lot more than the squeeze is letting on. why aren't the authorities going to depose her? >> without a doubt. >> maybe monday morning. >> we have an operative called leverage coming in. >> i think the authorities should depose her right now this weekend. thank you. you should be investigating this

whole thing, the beast. the madoff beast/squeeze. coming up "the kudlow report."