today the a the eight-year anniversary of the unprecedented terror attacks on september 11, 2001. every day on this year i feel a sense of heartache and sadness for these who lost their lives and those who worked so hard to save them and us. we have been safe, but in economic terms have we ever recovered from that tragic day? that's tonight's tough question. on september 10, 2001, the dow jones closed at 9605. today, exactly eight years later, the dow closed at the

exact same number, 9605. and over those same years, the dollar has lost a third of its value. has that tragic event held this great country back from an unprecedented growth curve that really began in the early 1980s? or are we absolutely frozen in our tracks? have we lost our prosperity mojo? my sense of optimism. are we truly on the road to recovery? we're thinking big thoughts tonight. i've got a lot of thoughtful friends and guests here to help me sort things through. we have pat boone, bernard kerick. and many others. they're going to help us figure out where this country is headed on september 11. fasten your seat belts, everybody. "the kudlow report" begins right now. good evening, everyone. i'm larry kudlow.

welcome back to "the kudlow report." the big question tonight on the anniversary of the horrifying day, 9/11, have we ever recovered, or did 9/11 create a new mindset? changing the fundamental optimism and growth of america let's get right to it. here now is the bernard kerick, jim blassman, former undersecretary of state and now executive director of the george w. bush institute, and joseph grano, ceo at centurian holdings. usa ceo, u.s. management. and former homeland security advisory council chairman. by the way, he's the author of the new book "you can't predict a hero." hello, gentlemen. jimmy glassman, i want to start with you on the economic theme before we start tor branch out.

i have long believed the stock market is the single best barometer of the health and wealth and prosperity of the usa. we have not moved the needle since 9/11, 2001. we're at 9605, jim. that factoid troubles me poppite depends on where you start. in 1972, we were at 777 on the dow. there's been a big increase since them, obviously, including dividends. so it's really -- value has increased by about 20 fold. now, since 2001, your question is, has 9/11 had an effect on the american economy or the american psyche that going forward we're going to be in trouble? and my answer to that is no. there's no doubt that 9/11 had a big impact, but the fact is that we have been safe for eight years. and if anything -- and by the

way, i just want to give credit to president bush, to the men and women of the armed services, to many, many others in government and, in fact, to people in the private sector like you, larry, who have kept the faith and really have persevered for freedom. and sometimes we don't know why something doesn't happen, but certainly this is one of the great national security accomplishments of all time. everyone believed there would be another attack eight years ago and there has not been. i don't think that there has been a diminution of american spirit. i think things go up and things go down. ainge going forward, i'm generally optimistic, although i am worried about the debt that we're taking on. >> joe, let me come to you. look, i don't ever want to lose my optimism or my faith in this country. i'm known for it. i believe it in my heart. today a s a heartache day.

snors the stock market story, you can say it's just one number, but behind the number, the stock market has a phenomenal record. jim glassman is right. we absolutely soared between 1980 and 2000. stocks went up 12 fold. wealth in this country went up about $45 trillion. we created about 45 million new jobs during that period. but since then, since 9/11, more or less, we have staaled out, joe, in every single category. has something changed that has given america now a different outlook? >> well, one i agree with the gentleman relative to debt. one of the consequences of 9/11 was lead into the war in iraq. that's about $1 billion a month in expenditure and that's added to our national debt, no question. i don't believe the psyche of america has any type of duration associated with it relative to the event. i think the spirit of america is alive and well. i think the stock market not only went through unprecedented levels and there's nothing to

suggest that you're not going to have a pause as we have had. >> a it's been a ten-year, pause, though. a ten-year pause with a lot of lousy statistics in between. i grew up professionally in the '80s and the '90s. and we just soared in all these categories including stocks. >> it was a euphoric decade, there's no question. >> two decades, two decades. >> but real estate went to unprecedented levels as well. percentage of stocks or equities went through record levels. our savings rates remained very, very low. now here we are in somewhat of a recovery in the last eight months and savings rates are going up. i guess my message is don't bet against america. >> all right, i want to get to bernie on some of the security issues or anything else you want to weigh in on. pat boone, you're very, very kind to help us. as a great successful entertainer, i'm going to argue you have your finger on the pulse of this country. have we lost our mojo, pat,

since 9/11, 2001? is there something missing in the last eight or nine years which seems to have slowed everything down? >> well, larry, good to be with you. i disagree a little bit. i think just as part of the -- there's a sense of jitters and ever since 9/11 when that catastrophic thing happened that we didn't believe could happen, we are very quick. people are generally very quick to jump at any negative report. you see it in the stock market, of course. just one little negative thing that comes out and perfectly good stocks drop in value. people, they want to sell, they want to get out. they want to run for cover and there's not that -- perhaps it's a healthy thing in a way that they're not just absolutely complacent thinking nothing can go wrong, but i think since we have been jolted that severely and we're reminded every 9/11

that we are -- we're a little too quick perhaps, more than we used to be, to run when there's some kind of negative report. >> pat boone -- >> and we've had plenty. >> has this country lost its optimism? do you think the lasting impact of 9/11, not only from seniors, not only from, you know, middle aged people, but also young people, peggy noonan had a wonderful column about a bunch of young people she interviewed for that column. they are worried something has changed in this country. they reported. has something changed, pat? >> well, yes, again, i think so. because our kids -- there was a big piece on what our kids are being taught and not being taught. i don't think our kids are being instilled with a sense of history that we were. that gives us the sense and the optimism that we have that can-do, never say die spirit. they're just not instilled with

it. so they can be panicked quicker than they used to be. i hope we get back to teaching more about our founding fathers, the intense, and all the prices that the valiant americans have paid over all these years to keep us free. this instills confidence and spirit. >> bernie, let me ask you this. is there still a terror war at home and abroad? are we war weary at home and abroad? and do we still face the lethal threat from radical jihadists? >> well, you face the threat, number one. number two, to go back to what you were asking the others, people have to remember, this is the same time in history that george bush was going through eight years ago. 1993, the world trade center was bombed. eight years later, 2001, eight months into george bush's presidency, first term, we were attacked again. we're at that same stage right now. we have to realize that the enemy has not dissipated.

they haven't disappeared. they're still out there. they had maeszage today, just today, by one of the al qaeda leaderships that they're looking to create some kind of nuclear event. osama bin laden still talks about mass casualties in a spectacular event. the problem for us is i don't see the american people having the patience to fight these wars for an enemy that they can't see. the enemy today are chameleons. the enemy today is an unconventional enemy. the enemy today is not a state. this isn't japan or germany or the things we had to fight in world war i or ii. the problem is the numbers are far greater than we had to fight in world war i and ii. >> are there jihadists working in the united states working to come at us again? >> absolutely. the one thing we haven't seen here or felt yet is the internal home grown terrorists, like they've had in italy, spain, the

uk. picadilly circus, the last bombings was home growns. kids born in the uk. they sent to pakistan or some other country to a madrasa. they're trained, indoctrine nated in radical beliefs. they're brought back to their home country and they're like ticking time bombs. >> what kind of psychological impact? if you're worried that we're going to get hit again. you ran one of the homeland security committees. i agree, president bush who is an unpopular rig you're right now for whatever different reasons, he has to be given credit for keeping this country safe for eight years, essentially. what do you think about the attitudes today towards that safety? >> i think unfortunately there's a degree of complacency and i agree with bernie totally. i think that there is an overhang in american psych te today. it's more economically based and

informationally based. you can't turn on the tv without it being negative. just negative, negative, negative. we are to a degree depersonalizing society as well with this internet invasion. there's no eye to eye contact and talk as there used to be. people are concerned economically. their homes have been devalued, they've got a depressed stock market relative to where it was. but onth securities side, we are safer than we were in 2001, but we are still not safe. >> james glassman, come back to the boom of the '80s and '90s. the most extraordinary boom. i don't know if there's anything like it in history. in the aftermath of 9/11, given all of the security measures that were taken and had to be taken, for which we give the bush administration credit, hopefully the obama administration will carry through, though that's an open-ended issue right now. but i'm asking you, have we

ushered in a period of big government? of very big government? and is that one of the reasons why the stock market hasn't moved since 2001? >> i don't -- i guess my answer is we don't know yet. i don't think that we ushered in an era of big government during the eight years ending january 20, 2009, and i think we'll see whether we're on the brink of an era of big government. and maybe the -- maybe investors are concerned that that may come about. i think -- look, to me, the american story is one of resilience. and bouncing back after setbacks, some of which are just bolts from the blue, like pearl harbor, like stock market crash of 1929, like 9/11. americans are resilient. which doesn't mean that the stock market immediately bounces back and stays high and goes through the roof.

>> it's a ten-year message, jimmy. i'm okay with the business cycle and the stock market cycle, but when i look back, 9605, the day before the terrorist attacks. 9605 today. in the interim period, james, as you well know, we had the tech bubble, all the enron scandals. we had the horrific housing bubble and the commodity bubble and the energy bubble and the subsequent financial meltdown. but you go back, for some reason, we haven't moved since that fateful day. and i just want to ask you, is there a new trend? a worse trend for the american economy? stocks are uncanny in their forecasting ability, jim. >> right, but not too long ago, the dow was at 14,000 and that wasn't a very good prediction about what was about to happen next. so stocks are not completely accurate about everything all the time. i'm just saying that to me, it's not a good idea to bet against the american economy.

but i can tell you this. i think american primacy, both in economics and militarily is something that we cannot take for granted over the next decade. and it's true that there may be some jitters about that, and it's possible that it started with 9/11, although i don't think so. >> we're going to have to take a quick break. jim glassman has some other plans. american military primacy, just in a second. losing it? holding it? >> holding it, but it needs to get stronger. >> lugz it or holding it? >> holding it. >> pat boone, your sense of our military supremacy? losing it or holding it? >> i think it's a little of both. >> has this country lost its vitality in the last eight or nine years in your judgment? a personal issue. in your judgment? >> no. >> all right, that's an optim t optimistic point. you all are going to come back. jim glassman is going to have to go. "the kudlow report" is going to stay. up next, how much more of the lasting impact of 9/11.

later in the show, is america's fundamental optimism gone? or is capitalism really unshakable. we are "the kudlow report." maybe this is the era of very big government and maybe that is animical to the growth we had in the '80s and '90s.

welcome back, everybody. wre w we're talking about 9/11. has america lost its mojo. the dow jones stock market indecember dex, one of the best brohm terse of the wealth and health of the united states, at 9605 today.

e had fabulous rally this year, however, back in september 2001, the index was also 9605. we have not moved in eight years. we're back. bernie, let me ask you this -- is there so much political division in this country, and maybe economic division, too, between the haves and have notes if wre believe the newspaper, so much division does that sap our vitality? >> i think it does. all of the conflict and, you know, going back in time. they want to investigate everything george bush has done over the past eight years. you know, let's move forward. you know, right now they're assigned a special prosecutor to look at cia operatives and what they did in 2003 and 2004. i think it's a major mistake. those men and women were working on authority and legimitations

that they were given by their bosses at the time. they are doing a job. it was extremely dangerous post 9/11. >> does it undermine our resolve? >>ite does. in a way it does. >> as a security officer, resolve is so crucial, right? >> you have cia agents today that have to go out and do a job in afghanistan, iraq, guantan o guantanamo, wherever. they have to worry in six, eight years from now when there's a new administration. are they going to prosecute me for something i did now? that's killing the intelligence services. the american people see this. >> pat boone, of course, this is a free country and we always have plenty of debate on all the issues. but is it more acrimonious now than usual in your judgment? and might that be sapping our va it willty, including our economic vitality? >> definitely.

shakespeare quoted jesus a long time ago, a house divided against itself cannot stand. and there is a lot of this rancor and division, and it's very unsettling for all of us. i was thinking about when i can remember when eisenhower was president and the fact that he was a great general in time of war gave the country great confidence. i think it is unsettling. it doesn't build confidence to know that our commander-in-chief at this point is not a man who ever served in the military. so if colin powell, for example, were president right now, i think there would be a lot more feeling of confidence in the country. but one encouraging thing is that the american people, you talk about our spirit, as these town hall meetings have taken place, you're seeing millions of americans that are willing to get out and say what they think and campaign and give and demonstrate. and that says to me there's tremendous vitality, and we have to have that if we're not going to just be sitting ducks.

>> see, i like that. i like pat boone's point on that a lot. one of the reasons i'm an optimist is a, we are a free country. and a democracy produces the right outcomes and the right solutions. we may stub our toe periodically, but it gets changed pretty darn fast. the wisdom of the american electorate has always been one of my optimistic ten innocents. will that carry us to the right solutions? >> in the past, it ultimately always has and i think it will in the future. but pat makes a great point. i think part of our problems is the far left and far right in this country are organized. and they drive the legislative agenda at the expense of the majority. the majority gets to the point where we've had it and you're hearing that now in these town meetings and that's a healthy thing for america. it's one of our strengths. but when you have pundit on tv day in and day out and talking heads attacking everything, and everything is about a postmortem, who did it rather

than what we're going to do to solve it. that's what we have to do in this country. >> when i was a kid, there was a show called queen for a day. you would say my arm is hurting me, my husband has cancer and people would clap and if you got a high score on the meter you would win a refrigerator. we need to get back to that. >> i love to spin an optimistic story, but do we have the will to carry this fight? we have been safe for eight years. that's no small achievement. a lot of people around 9/11/2001 fell the last attack was coming asap. we've been safe. why sit that we're always banging on this one and that one. and you mentioned guantanamo. what is up with that? >> they don't talk more about it because it happened under a different administration.

at the end of the day, it's one country united. it's supposed to be. we've had a million men and women that joined the armed forces since september 11. we can do it. we know we can unite. we were all down at the stock exchange when it opened on september 17, six days after the attack on the towers. this country can unite. we need the leadership to get us there. >> pat boone, i'm going to give you the last word on this great panel. are you an optimist or pessimist about the future of this country? >> i'm very optimistic, even though we have troubles ahead. >> what's your most optimistic thought? >> because we have elections coming up in about a year and i think the american people are going to take their government back. >> and is that the message of some of these town halls and other forums you talked about a moment or two ago? >> it is. like the guy said, we're mad as held a hell and not going to take it anymore. we feel like we've been steam

rolled into something we don't want, huge debt. and we're saying hey, you work for u.s, buster. we don't work for you. >> will we keep our resolve on the fight against terrorism? >> i think we will. i think the american people are going to force us to. >> i'm going to ask you the very same question. will we keep our resolve? that's the thing that worries me the most. we understand there are jihadist sell krels out there just waiting to be hatched to our detriment, to our danger pop i think the people who are protecting this country do know. i don't think the average american knows that. but the answer to your question is yes. we have the resolve and yes, those cells are there. >> are we more weary, joe. >> i think when you put war on tv and you slam it the way we have, and even today, talking about more troops in afghanistan and the senators saying we shouldn't do it, when we found out in iraq that was the wrong move, it makes you nauseous actually. but the answer is we are war weary, but let someone do anything in this country and you'll see the resolve. >> okay, gentlemen.

we're going to have to call it there. joe is going to come back for more stock market wisdom. pat boone, thank you ever so much. it's wonderful to see you. bernie kerik, same thing. coming up, have we ever really recovered from 9/11, at least in economic term? we're going to go inside some of the key numbers when we come back. i'm going to remain optimistic, folks. but i want to remain realistic also. stocks haven't changed in eight years. that troubles me.

welcome back. the stock market is one of the best indicators for prosperity for this country but it hasn't moved in eight years. the 9605 on september 10, 2001, it closed at 9605 today. joining us now, two titans in the investing world. the author ott new book "you can't predict a hero." no movement in stocks over eight years. i believe we're in a heck of a

good stock market rally that's going to run well into next year, but dick, have we truly recovered from 9/11. >> i think we recovered from 9/11 in a couple oaf quarters. we got the decline from the tech bubble. you were starting to go into that bear market as you recognize the tech profits disappeared on you. i don't link it to 9/11. i think the hit was very much front ended and basically was over within about a year. >> perhaps so. but the boom of the '80s and the boom of the '90s was virtually continuous. we had a very small recession in the early '90s. we had a credit crunch. turns out to be nothing. stocks up 12 fold.

my point is this, even in the bush recovery, the aggregate data looked lousy compared to the '80s and '90s. yeah, we hit new high bus we couldn't hold them. even now while i'm a stock market optimist, i think the dow jones is going 10, 500, 11,000, even i can't get you back to the all-time highs or beyond that. i want to get it all back. i'm going to ask you, have we truly recovered from 9/11? it just seemed like that date had more to it than anybody thought. >> i do not agree with you. i think there are other dynamics. keep in mind, the great years were preceded by a 16-year bear market. the dow jones was 1,000, a little under 1,000 in 1966, and in 1982, it was below 800. so yet, you have to think there was a huge bear market for a

decade and a half, and then two decades of a catch-up, tremendous bull market. i think we're in an in between positive trend in the market and in the economy. neither extreme, neither the dreadful bear market of the '70s. >> i want to ask you, are there any similarities to the aggregate stock market slump in the last eight or nine years between what we had in 196 to 1982? any similarities? >> i agree with richard. i think you have a whole different foundation of fundamentals. this year alone our deficit is going to be 3 1/2 times larger than last year. we have about $20 trillion of debt guaranteed by our nation today and a big demographic shift this decade versus the last decade. 70% of our gdp comes from

consumption, yet 75% of all of the financial assets in this nation are in the hands of people 50 years and older. and they're getting older. and they're not spending the way they were. and particularly now that we've gone through this economic turmoil. the psyche has changed. it is impacting the market. and by the way, as cautiously optimistic as i am, i think that there are unintended consequences that are going to be in front of us because of all of this debt. so i'm much more cautious. >> i'm going to ask you a tough question, though. i personally support president bush in iraq and afghanistan and of course, homeland security. there are many bush critics out there that blame the build-up of spending and debt and borrowing on president bush as a legacy of 9/11. what's your thought there? how do you respond to that? >> other than the consequences of the cost of the iraqi war, i don't agree with that statement. this started in '99 when we tried to get everyone to own a

home and lored credit standards. greenspan lowered interest rates post 9/11, appropriately so. and we went to speculative excess. >> let me take a quick break. you guys are going to come right back. let's not forget, folks. we are in a rip snorting bull market. stocks are up about 4% this week alone. however, the sinking dollar is getting to be a larger and larger problem. the dollar down at its worst level in a year. six consecutive days. gold prices up. one question is, is this a deliberate government policy coming from the white house, the treasury and the fed? we will be right back. this is "the kudlow report." .

gold climbed to a new high today. sharon epperson joins now with new details. >> many have been attracted to gold. they're looking at debt levels, quantitative reasoning and inflation as a reason to get into gold as a safe haven. gol rallied above that 1,000 market again up $1,000. in fact, it looks like we're going to the march o08 all-time high of $1,0 3. in the past two week we've seen gold prices rally about 6%. and that rally has broken gold out of its recent range and we're looking at a technical rally as well that has a lot to do with the decline in the dollar.

the dollar at a 52-week low today. and it could send gold prices back to that march 2008 high. back to you. >> thanks very much. dick, besides a pancake flat stock market for eight years, during that period of time, the u.s. dollar has shrunk by about 1/3 and gold prices have soared. i do not regard a faltering dollar and soaring gold as very good signs, dick hoe. these are more of these friends traceable to 9/11. what's your take? >> i don't think it's linked to 9/11, but i would argue about the first 2/3 to 80% of the decline in the dollar was a correction of an overballed dollar. the strong dollar in 2000 was an overvalued dollar, and cratered our manufacturing sector. it was a giant mistake. and much of the early decline

was a correction of dreadful mistake of overshall valling the dollar and thereby eroding our manufacturing base. now we're beginning to get a more -- it's a little more worrisome, but the reason it's occurring is you can borrow at 0% and many many are. >> it's cheap and easy money from the fed. one wonders if this isn't a deliberate policy. joe grano, in the '80s and '90s boom which seems to have departed us, the dollar in fits and starts got stronger and stronger. gold in fits and starts got weaker and weaker and the stock market got stronger an stroenger. it's all gone today. what do you make of it? >> i think it's low interest rate and the debt burdens and foreign countries looking at the dollar as a backstop to their currencies. i'm not concerned. i don't think it's inflation. the cp has a perfect corollary..

>> if they went to a $70, 10-10-10 or perpetual dollar that would be disastrous. i think the chinese are shortening the duration of our treasuries. they own 25% of our foreign debt, about $800 billion. i see them shortening duration, which means the long bond is going to have to pay a higher interest rate. >> dick hoey, on the way out, lesser countries are beating up on us. that can't be a good thing. >> it's not great, but keep in mind the time when it real hurts to have a weak currency is when the central bank has to tighten up money to stop it. and this fed is not going to tighten up money. so what we're not going to get is that drain of liquidity from the central bank fighting the weak dollar. >> i don't know if that's the solution or the dollar, but

that's for another segment. coming up, president obama has a lot on his plate. just days ago, it was health care. now he's headed to wall street on monday to talk bank regulatory reform. is it going to be too much to get his message through? john harwood will have the full story. but first up, let's check in with dennis kneale and see what's cooking for the top of the hour? >> what happened to the september pullback we were looking for? today, nothing but a flesh wound. president obama's best speech of his presidency, but it had a big impossible promise. >> we'll be right back after this message.

president obama has a lot on his plate. the unresolved health care issue, still hot button topic. now the president is headed to wall street monday to talk financial regulatory reform. is that going to be too much? our chief washington correspondent john harwood with the full story. hello, john. >> it's been a week of high drama for president obama. mostly on health care but also with big economic implications. that's because in his speech wednesday night, president obama acknowledged huge concerns about budget deaf sits and pledged his

health care plan if it passes congress will not make the promise worse. >> i will not sign it if it adds one dime to the deficit now or in the future, period. and to prove i'm serious, there will be a provision in the plan that we will have to have spending tut kuts if the savings don't materialize. >> president obama is going to wall street to push his financial re-regulation program. today, larry somers noted the importance of overhauling the oversight of systemic risk. he told reporters, the system cannot be fail safe until it's safe for failure. he's hoping congress will move on this, although action is not expected until 2010, alreadiry. >> thanks very much. coming up, did 9/11 launch the

era of big government ascendency to the detriment of the economy? robert reich and steve moore are here. yes or no, steve moore. a new era of big government since 9/11? responsible for the stock market staal? >> yes or no. >> yes, it started with bush and it's continued at record speed under barack obama. >> robert re kri h? yes or no. >> i agree with half of that. it it started under bush. juj deaf fits flat wages. i think obama is trying to get us out of the staal created by george w. bush. >> bob re kri h will tell us that obama is silently for small government, limited government. coming right back on kudlow.

so did 9/11 launch the era of big government? robert reich and steve moore. bob reich, it sounded like you were going to make the case that president obama will return us to the economic boom time era of

small government in the '80s and '90s, or did i misunderstand? >> well, i can't tell you that, larry, but so far what obama has done so far, t.a.r.p., a stimulus package and health care are all responses of a failure that occurred over the previous eight years where we had spending on anything. we had a run-up in the deficit such as we have not had in this country and also a failure in regulation where the treasury, bush's treasury and also sec, securities and exchange commission basically turned a blind eye to what was going on in wall street. leading us ultimately to a huge housing bubble explosion. and that's what we need right now to clean up. that's what obama is trying to clean up. health care has to be done. in 1980, we had a tiny little health care percentages a a percentage of gdp and now it's exploded. >> wartime tends to create

bigger and bigger government. i will support george bush's war against terror, but my question to you, steve, has it permanently left government's imprint on the economy much, much larger? and is that why the stock market hasn't moved in eight years? >> it has. and by the way, bob, i want to pose a question for you? how long are you going to blame george w. bush for all these problems? >> forever. i'll stop in about 2020, maybe 2025. >> serious business here, 9/11. the boom of the '80s aej even '. that was era, clinton followed with gingrich of limited government, lore taxes, fewer regulations and unbelievable prosperity. what has changed? >> what happened, larry. and this is really important. we had a big increase in homeland security and national defense spending which i think

was certainly appropriate, as you do, to win the war against terrorism. the problem is, at the same time, the curve went up for defense spending, what george bush and the republicans did, they also had a big increase in the domestic spending. so larry, at the same time we were spening money on guns we didn't stop spending, we had both. that led to the both deaf sits. and this is where broem is cpre obama is culpable. he had a $1 trillion deficit and now it's $2 trillion. he's made it worse. >> the tax cuts defied all supply-side expectations and predictions. immediate i can't imagine wages dropped. that has not happened in a recovery before. why did it happen? i think you would have to look at the failure of not only the bush administration but also the

clinton administration. and administrations before that to build up the american workforce. >> bob, you're dead wrong on the supply side tax cuts. wrapped was there was a recovery, larry, in the stock market that really began in may of 2 o03, when we signed into law those investment tax cuts. the lower capital gains and dividends. we had rising wages. we had a huge surplus surge in jobs after we cut those taxes, and the biggest mistake of all the mistakes that barack obama is going to make, canceling those tax cuts are going to cause a bear market. >> hang on a second. >> please let me ask you -- >> one particular thing steve just said. steve, this is important. there was no trickle down with regard to those supply side tax cuts. this is critical to the discussion. if people don't have money in their pockets they can't buy. and if they can't buy, they have to borrow. and if they borrow, they go overborrow. >> the stock market hasn't moved

in eight years. steve moore, do you believe the stock market will move up? do you believe it's going to beat the old highs? do you believe that? >> larry, if i sold my stocks at 9 thourgs, i'm not buying stocks at 9500. >> do you believe the stock market is poised for recovery? are are we going to stay in this mall laze? >> i think we'll have a double dip. >> you can't be optimistic about big government spending if you're a double dipper. neither of you guys. >> we don't have another aggregate demand. can i say that again? not enough aggregate demand. >> thanks to our dynamic duo. coming up, more of the kudlow report." 9/11. nothing has moved in eight years. this is unfortunate.