i like the baseball theme and, of course, no cheese. and $3 dividend special from domino's last night. then right over to the apple store. and there's the beauty of seeing young, old, everybody kong regating around the appear the ipads, and bingo, i come in on a dividend. these companies have really seen the light. they want investors. i hope you're listening. i'd like to say there's always a bull market somewhere. i promise to try to find it for you here on "mad money." i'm jim cramer. see you tomorrow! larry, what do you have for us? >> breaking news, a new tax plan that would lower individual and corporates and get rid of the alternative minimum tax. good evening, i'm larry kudlow. this is "the kudlow report." we start with break news. some of the details from the republicans' budget plan starting to come out. i have them for you. the plan calls for individual tax rates to drop to 10% to 25%. corporate tax would go to 25%. it would also spell the end for

the minimum tax. tomorrow one of the people behind the plan will join me on "squawk box," that being representative paul ryan. it all starts at 6:00 a.m. eastern. now some other important headlines. sizzle story number one, no relief in sight at the pump. gas prices continue on their upward march. one of the culprits here, refiners. but that didn't stop president obama from pitting business against the american people pitching some class warfare and some bad energy economics. take a listen. >> we're going to put every single member of congress on record. they can either stand up for the oil companies, or they can stands up for the american people. >> as i said, one of the culprits but also one of the victims in all of this are refiners. in just a moment, we're going to talk with them about why they blame president obama for the high gas prices. meanwhile, sizzle number two, 24 hours before the polls close in in illinois, it looks like another romney sweep. to me, he looks unstoppable. but santorum's not backing down. take a listen.

>> i don't care what the unemployment rate's going to be. it doesn't matter to me. my campaign doesn't hinge on unemployment rates and growth rates. >> and folks, apple issues a new dividend plan, a stock buyback. the stock went up today to close above 600 bucks. but besides techs, what about banks which also climbed? but we begin tonight with one key component in this fight to get gasoline prices under control. it's become issue number one for voters and the economy as we move into the spring. we'll debate whether the president's doing all he can in just a moment. but first up tonight, cnbc's own sharon epperson sets it all up with a report on how much capacity this country's gasoline refiners really have. good evening, sharon. >> good evening, larry. we've seen a dramatic reduction. we're now looking at gasoline futures that are near their highest levels since april of last year. we're talking about a 27% increase in the rise in gasoline futures just this year. and a lot of that increase has to do with the concern over

refining capacity. now, we heard today that valero is shutting its aruba refinery. that processes about 235,000 barrels per day and is going to end at the end of this month. valero didn't do much gasoline production, but the fact we're already seeing a reduction in the northeast and north america to the tune of 600 barrels a day, add to that additional refining closures in europe and all of this is leading to a great concern that perhaps we'll see a shortfall in gasoline supply if we see demand start to pick up in the summer months. so as for consumers, well, they're now paying 8% more at the pump than they did a year ago. the national average, $3.84 per gallon. some places are even higher than that and, of course, larry, you know we've heard a lot about this talk about $5 gas for the summer. some cities may see that, unfortunately. >> all right. thank you very much, sharon epperson. we appreciate it. look, just let me put in my 2 cents on this whole oil story. it galls me that president obama

keeps telling us, the u.s., has only 2% of world oil reserves. this is now flat-out wrong. here's the truth. with new technology and the shale revolution, studies now show we have 60 times recoverable oil above obama's number. yes, oil production has increased during his administration, but 99% of that increase comes from privately developed oil production in the fields in north dakota and montana to eagle ford field in texas and the marcellus in pennsylvania. this is all private entrepreneurship, had nothing to do with obama's regulatory handcuffs on oil produced offshore and on federal lands which he has basically blocked or slowed. and there's a production backlog, inadequate pipelines, refineries closing down, as sharon just said, gas prices surging, and gop candidates have been quick to point fingers at the president on the campaign trail. take a listen to mitt romney

from earlier today. >> we have three people, i call them the gas-hike trio, the secretary of the interior, the secretary of energy, and then the administrator of the epa. and what they've been doing piece by piece is making it harder and harder to drill oil in our country, to get natural gas from our country, to take advantage of the coal we have in our country. all of these things drive up the cost of energy, drive up the cost of gasoline and other sources of fuel. >> all right. so the question is, are obama's policies actually making america's energy troubles worse? is it time for his energy team to go? here now we have cnbc contributor jeb bernstein, and we welcome charlie drebna, the trade association which represents refiners. charlie, welcome to the show. i'll begin with you. do you blame president obama for this energy mess we are in? >> well, the blaming is probably

an incorrect word. let's talk about what could we do to get out of this mess that we're in? we all know that the price of gasoline is directly tied to the price of crude oil, and it's a very tight crude oil worldwide market. so what can we do? now, the president has, according to us, has the jekyll & hyde approach to our energy policy. he wants us off opec oil and then he goes to opec and says produce more. he wants to annul the above strategy, but he imposes sanctions on canadian oil, and he won't let us, as you mentioned, he won't let us produce the oil we have, the vast treasure trove of oil and natural gas we have under our own feet and off our shores. so it is a bit confusing, larry. you know, i guess we have to take him at his word when he says all of the above strategy. he wants all of the above. solar, wind, biofuels, and nothing below. >> all right. i bring you in. look, i'm making the case that

all the production that mr. obama keeps talking about am k s comes in these private shale fields. the reality is i don't think the president remotely understands that if he would take the regulatory handcuffs off, jared, we could have north american energy independence in a decade. >> well, look, first of all, good to see you and charlie. i like where charlie started here in terms of not casting blame because there's very little the president can do about short-run prices at the pump. the fact remains, larry, and i haven't heard you or charlie deal with this, that domestic oil production, not just shale, but oil production is way up over the past eight years to the highest level it's been. now, if you want to talk shale, 10 cents of every consumer dollar spent on energy goes to shale. 90 cents is spent on oil. so yes, we've got a lot of shale, and there are very low prices, and the president has done yeoman's work in that regard. but we just don't have the energy infrastructure at this point to utilize to take full advantage of that.

we will over time, but we don't right now. let me -- larry, let me say one final thing. >> i completely disagree. the production you're talking about is coming from these shale fields. it is not coming from any policy changes made by the administration. >> it's not coming for any policy change. >> that's the whole problem here. private entrepreneurs are getting the job done. he's not helping them, he's blocking. >> two things. first of all, these companies are sitting on tons of acreage that they're not -- that they've leased but they're not even drilling on. they've got excess capacity already just in the areas that they could be drilling that they're not. secondly, your best point is on the refinery and the logistics. the part i don't understand is why you make that the president's problem. that is a private sector, a highly profitable private secretary industry's infrastructure. they're the ones responsible for fixing it. >> jared asked a good point, as he always does. let me ask you, is the president responsible for the infrastructure problem? has he put the regulatory

handcuffs on pipelines? >> well, let me go back and answer the question about the leasing. we're not sitting -- oil companies around sitting on leases. look at what shell tried to do up in alaska. it took them $4 billion -- they had the lease, it took them $4 billion to get through to try to develop it. these leases are litigated every step of the way with the blessing of the administration. now, the infrastructure -- we have a great north/south infrastructure throughout the united states. it would even be better if the president would sign the 700,000 barrel a day keystone exxon pipeline into law. >> it has nothing to do with what we're talking about, but go ahead. >> well, it does have everything to do with what we're talking about because if you're talking about the price at the pump -- >> right. >> -- the price at the pump is directly influenced by the price of crude oil, which is at historic highs again. >> okay, charlie -- >> if you want to bring down the price at the pump, open up our own natural resources. send a message to the rest of the world that america is dead

serious about our energy and national security. that we're dead serious about -- >> so charlie, you clearly are a knowledgeable guy in this. let me ask you this question. i'm not trying to play gotcha here. i want your honest answer. if the president had made a different move on keystone -- and by the way, i've argued there are ways in which i would agree with that -- if the president made a different move on keystone, would prices at the pump now be notably different? >> well, if you look at what happened last week with the president meeting with prime minister cameron and just the thought of -- or the report that they might open the strategic petroleum reserve which i believe they shouldn't do, it sent the price down $2. last year when we released -- excuse me, when the president released 30 million barrels of crude oil from the spr, it sent the prices down for two or three days. again, i don't believe he should have done it, but that's putting nine hours' worth. and sends a message. >> charlie, we'll quick, we're

running out of time. you both were great. if the treasury and the federal reserve increased the value of the dollar, would not that bring down gasoline prices with all the stuff that the east coast refiners have to import from europe? >> well, larry, you're right because if you look at 2008 till now, the price of -- the value of the dollar has added -- the devaluation of the dollar has added $17 a barrel to the price of crude oil from brent. that's up about 42 cents a gallon right off the top. >> larry, larry, if you want to raise interest rates to make a stronger dollar, you're cutting your nose off. >> no, i'm sorry. i disagree, jared. that's another conversation. i'm sorry, we've got to jump. jared bernstein, thank you, my buddy, and charlie, thanks for coming on. next up on "kudlow report," two key stock stories. number one, apple's big move, finally answering to calls to establish a dividend. and those bank stocks, what do they really stay about the

bigger picture? banks had another good day. and once again, free market capitalism in energy and every place else is the best path to prosperity. "kudlow report" coming right back. ♪ ( whirring and crackling sounds ) man: assembly lines that fix themselves. the most innovative companies are doing things they never could before, by building on the cisco intelligent network.

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another day, another milestone for apple. closing above $600 a share for the first time ever. this after announcing a dividend today, stock year to date up 48%. our own john fort is live in san jose. good evening, john. >> reporter: hey, larry. yeah, the dividend and buyback plan were the first big news of the day. apple gave a sense of how sales of the new ipad have gone, and wow, is that a big number. apple said it sold 3 million ipads in the ten days since it was unveiled. even considering apple took preorders, something it didn't do for the ipad 2, that suggests demand is still at least doubling year over year. apple sold just 1 million a year ago and it took a month to sell a million of the first ipad. the new features are the high-resolution display, higher quality camera and custom chip enand lar and larger battery it takes. it opened at $2.65 a share, that is about 180 basis points and a $10 billion stock buyback to

deal can the dilution from employee stock purchases. the markets quite happy about that, larry. >> john, tim cook, new ceo, says yes to dividends and buybacks. steve jobs, of course, always said no. what do you make of this? >> reporter: well, you know, larry, tim cook has very much been taking the corporate responsibility sort of tack in apple. steve jobs sort of had a hands-off approach. tim cook said he's focused on the product, but look how he's handled the china labor issues, releasing more information. look how five months after taking the reins, he's graun straight ahead with this dividend and buyback. apple could have done that a while ago. they've been diluting the stock with employee compensation for a while. it certainly does say he's paying more attention to the shareholders. >> thanks very much, john fort. we appreciate it. let's turn to our stock market gurus. jim yurio. jim lecant, ubs. gentlemen, real quick. fast as a speeding bullet, jim.

buyers sell apple right now? >> sell apple right now. is that all you want? i've got more of that answer. real quick, sell apple right now. >> give me another 12 seconds. >> there's two things. one, normally if it took out its old highs and settled above there, i would be assigned to buy it and get out of shorts. to me it seemed too contrived. this meteoric rise over the last few months has been because the dividend's been priced in. i think it's a buy the rumor, sell the fact sort of thing. >> jim, buy or sell apple? >> i don't agree. first of all, the growth in income funds that are now able to buy apple weren't able to buy it until they made the announcement. they have to buy the fact. secondly, this stock is not trading expensively at all. it's outgrowing every other company on the exchange. ty think it looks fantastic here. >> thank you, gentlemen. jim, i want to turn to another hot sector, banks. the kbw bank index is up 27% year to date. if i'm not mistaken, after home

builders, that's the next best sector, maybe there's somebody else if between. you like banks? they got their own dividends and buyback programs. what do you think about banks? is that going to stay with them or not? >> in the medium term, i really like banks. it's hard for me to buy bank of america, today's high it was up 27% in five days. to me that feels like you're chasing. but if you think the yield curve is going to get steeper like i do, ban stocks have a high correlation to that. and i think it is going to get steeper and that makes it easier for banks to make money. and i think that's a nice tailwind. they do have headwinds as well. every time they try to charge another fee, they get backlash. the stock prices of 2007, 2008, that's a totally different animal of what banks were then compared to now. but i do kind of like the story on banks. >> jim lacamp, get your take on this. i want to add, besides banks issuing dividends and buybacks, of course, most of them passed the stress test. and those that didn't were still pretty close. is the stress test a galactic

event? is that time to stay with the bank stocks? >> i like the bank stocks here. if you buy them on a little bit of a pullback. they made a big move just like apple. buy them on pullbacks. don't run out and buy them at the height of the news. the problem with the bank stocks and the stress test is this. they actually have passed its stress test right before it failed. these banks are still trading below what they say their assets are. so the market is saying we don't really believe you that your assets are worth that much. but right now the wind is in their sails. go higher because -- and i agree with jim, the yield curve is going to get more steep. there's going to be a rush. and we're seeing them start to improve. >> there you go. you finally nailed that. loans up 12% year on year, that is usually important to the banks story because those are profitable loans and, by the way, there's excess capital, and there's excess liquidity. m2 growing 10% year on year.

m1 growing 17% year on year. jim yurio, thank you. jim lacamp, thank you so much. next up, inside president obama's re-election headquarters. how about that? our own john harwood getting exclusive access. see what goes on behind the curtain of obama headquarters in chicago. right after this break.

an airline has planes... and people. and the planes can seem the same so, it comes down to the people. because, bad weather the price of oil

those are every airlines reality. and solutions won't come from 500 tons of metal and a paint job. they'll come from people. delta people. who made us one of the biggest airlines in the world. and then decided that wasn't enough. here's a chance to create jobs in america. oil sands projects, like kearl, and the keystone pipeline will provide secure and reliable energy to the united states. over the coming years, projects like these could create more than half a million jobs in the us alone. from the canadian border, through the mid west, to the gulf coast. benefiting hundreds of thousands of families throughout the country. this is just what our economy needs right now. all right. all right. we have governor schweitzer?

yes. joining us now exclusively from montana is the pro-energy democratic governor, brian schweitzer. good evening, governor. welcome back to the show. look, i totally applaud your support of keystone, but i've got to ask you at the top, you're a democrat. the leader of your party, president obama, has opposed it left and right including making phone calls to stop senators from voting for it in a senate vote a couple weeks ago. what's up with that? >> well, washington, d.c., they don't even know what they're voting for or against. these pipelines are actually permitted state by state. montana has issued a permit, south dakota's issued the permit, kansas and oklahoma. but nebraska -- well, nebraska called a special session of their legislature to change the laws. and so my friends at trans-canada, they don't even have a route to cross nebraska. so when these members of congress are calling on the president to permit a pipeline,

well, there is no pipeline because there's no route to cross nebraska. they say maybe by september or october they'll have a route. and then trans-canada is going to once again apply to get that international permit. >> governor, how important is the keystone pipeline, particularly the lower half of the keystone? in other words, you're getting all of this oil shale coming out of montana, which is great. north dakota, which is fabulous. so it's all developing, it's all sitting in cushing, oklahoma. it's a pipeline glut. we need more pipeline. how important is keystone to that story? >> well, it's really important. and know this. that over the last three years, i've negotiated with trans-canada. and i got them to agree to build $100 million on ramp in montana so that montana and north dakota oil could be pumped on this keystone. people think it's just alberta

oil. this is just montana and north dakota oil, and it's $100 million investment just at baker, montana. but my oil guys tell me that even with that on ramp, they wering with we were going to have a problem in oklahoma. we need to reverse the flow. and one of the oil companies have reversed their flows so now we can get crude oil delivered back down to the gulf coast. and we need additional pipeline capacity so that when more oil arrives in cushing, that we can actually get it to the refining capacity on the gulf coast. >> all right. that's the story as i understand it. i appreciate you coming on, governor. thanks very much, governor schweitzer. let's turn to some presidential politics. while the republican candidates are busily battling it out in the primaries, president obama is setting his sights on the main event. cnb krrk cnbc's own john harwood spent the day at the president's presidential re-election headquarte

headquarters. >> we spend so much time covering romney, santorum and ron paul, that we sometimes forget the place where the general election is already under way. >> obama for america, how may i direct your call today? >> now, of course, this is the second obama campaign, and just like the first one in 2008, the emphasis is on intense grass-roots organizing. that means here at the headquarters in chicago, the mantra is, don't think national, think local. >> what you see behind me is everything from digital teams to field teams. we largely sit in a pod structure because this is a campaign about states. we may be at headquarters, but the real action is happening in the states. >> now, one major difference from 2008 is advances in some of the social media that were so critical to obama's success then, twitter, facebook and other forms of communication. so one of the central goals at headquarters of the obama campaign is keeping up with advancing communications technology. >> the way people communicate

now is very mobile compared to what it was four years ago where the iphone was just being introduced. so now people mostly get their information on iphones. >> so your capacity to push information out to people's phones is much greater? >> it's wherever they are, wherever they are, and you can personalize it. >> now, one benefit the obama campaign has had is this extended republican in-fighting, now pitting rick santorum and mitt romney here in illinois, a crucial primary tomorrow. the obama campaign expects ultimately mitt romney to be the nominee, and they wonder when republicans are going to realize that it's time to end this campaign -- primary campaign if they know what's good for them. >> at some point reality sets in, and i would think that the republican party leaders would want to wrap this up sooner rather than later. so they can prepare what we've already prepared in terms of a general election campaign. >> so larry, i expect that if mitt romney is able to win this illinois primary, that is going to take us one step closer to

that general election campaign. and some of the late polls do seem to show that romney's expanding the narrow lead he had held over rick santorum, larry. >> yeah, john, i think you're totally right on boast counts. cnbc's john harwood. mitt romney wrapped up another primary in puerto rico, but can he do it tomorrow? illinois takes its turn at the ballot box. the polling averages give romney a sizeable lead as john suggested. right now it's romney, 40, santorum, 31. so let's talk a bit about this. we bring in vin webber and santorum supporter tim lefebvre, chairman of the sacramento-based research institute. tim lefebvre, let me just ask you this, i had a great interview this weekend on the radio with rick santorum. really good interview. he hit all the key spots. but i have to ask you this. i don't see how you can win illinois, and i don't see how

you can take the nomination right now. >> well, let me answer both of those. starting with illinois, remember when we started off last week, you started off with graphics showing how balabama and mississippi, he was in third place. in the end, he won both of those. we would hope the same thing in illinois. but one of the most unreported stories right now is the inflation of the delegate count. as you well know, up until april 1st, there are a number of states that are supposed to be proportionally allocated. we don't have that. we have a number of places you don't have delegates that haven't been selected yet. they're in that count. i think there's plenty of time for rick santorum to come out. >> it has to be about more than the math. santorum has to have a better mess j a i less distracted message closing in illinois. >> i think we have to go quite the other way. if romney was an inevitable candidate, we'd expect to see him getting better than 50% in a lot of these races. he's out there outspending rick santorum in some cases 10-1.

and bottom line is, the base of the party hasn't bought it. they still know that this is a conversion of convenience for mitt romney rather than a conversion of conscience to conservativism. >> let's look at the numbers, though. it's going to be really interesting to see if romney just wins the chicago suburbs, that would go to your argument. but if santorum doesn't do well in the southern part of illinois, that's going to be worrisome because if he's not winning in the southern more rural parts of the state, his base may be evaporating. >> once again, i think we'll have to wait until tomorrow to see how we do. >> vin webber, at lunch today in washington, d.c., we had a lunch paul ryan, kind of a conservative lunch on his new budget and tax cut plan. i was talking to bill kristol who has just drawn a very tough note about mitt romney and mandates and how that's going to play in the general election. and i want to ask you, with so many people, santorum, of course, is hammering away on mitt romney's support of mandateds in massachusetts and taxes. when is mitt romney going to

make a full-fledged obamacare health care reform speech to try to put his positions into greater clarity for the whole republican party and the rest of the country? when's this going to happen, vin? >> well, you're going to absolutely get that, larry, but first you've got a couple things already. >> no, no, when? you say i'm absolutely going to get that. when? >> but he's already basically endorsed the ryan approach to medicare reform which, as you know, is the alternative to obamacare. he's called for the repeal of obamacare. that really is the core of what we need to talk about in terms of replacing obamacare. >> i just don't think that's enough, though. i was on the trail with governor romney last week. and voters at his town halls are still asking whether he's really going to repeal obamacare. there's a lot of concern out there. even though congressman weber is right, romney has said all the right things, but there's a lingering sense romney hasn't said enough. >> and vin, there is tremendous

public antipathy to obamacare. 56% of the polls show that people don't like obamacare. i get the medicare reform. i get the paul ryan connection. >> but that's very big. don't brush over it. that's the key. >> but you have to deal with romneycare and obamacare, vin. that's what i'm saying. i'm not being hostile or anti-romney. >> that is the albatross around his neck. >> when are you going to do it? i know vin doesn't agree, but it looks like you're going to win. the question is when does the romneycare speech take place? >> i'm not sure, but the key points he's made is that he is going to support repeal of obamacare, it's his first priority when he gets elected, and he supports the ryan approach toward premium support to reform medicare which is the key to reforming medicare and the really is just fleshing out the program. >> i predict the speech doesn't

happen because he knows. >> larry, he made the speech before the race. romney doesn't feel he needs to answer these questions. he wants to move beyond talking about romneycare. >> if you say you're repealing obamacare, you're against the mandate and in favor of the ryan approach to premium support. what are the other details you need filled in? >> it reminds us about romneycare. >> that is the basic core of the program. >> obama's roots in romneycare. >> because romney has already given the answer to the question. >> vin, i'm not attacking. i'm just saying. this is an issue that has to be raised, okay? >> i agree, it's an issue. >> it's like me on tax reform and lowering marginal tax rates two, three months ago. and you were right and tim pawlenty was trite. governor romney came back with a plan "b," and i think it's a good plan "b." >> it's a great plan "b." >> i'm waiting for plan "c." romneycare and the issue of

taktsing people without insurance all which sounds a bit like obamacare, i think governor romney has to put it right out there in a clear speech, vin. >> i think you'll see it all laid out in a comprehensive speech you want. but the key elements are already out there. >> all right. we'll have to leave it there for tonight. vin weber, thank you, tim lefebvre and robert costa. next up, a new two number in the never hfr ending fast food fights. plus, peyton's new place. he's made a decision and it's going to displace the quarterback who became one of last season's fan favorites. more on "kudlow" in just two minutes. if you have copd like i do,

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well, here's a well, here's a whopper. burger king is no longer number two in america. cnbc's reporter joins us with the latest breaking headlines coming into the cnbc newsroom. good evening, seema. >> wendy's has bumped burger king as the second chain in america. it was close, wendy's at $8.5 billion in sales, burger king at $8.4 billion. mccdonald's remains number one. good news for burger king, it remains two internationally. starbucks has opened its first juice store in bellevue, washington. the company says the giant jump could be worth as much as $3.4 billion. amazon has bought a company

that makes robots used in fulfilling offers. the price, $775 million. gm ceo daniel akerson received restricted shares worth $1.9 million last year as part of an incentive program. two-thirds get paid out two years from now and the full amount gets paid out until 2015. taxpayers own 27% of gm which made $7.5 billion last year. did you see "john carter"? looks like you're not alone. the blockbuster has turned out to be a budget-busting bomb. disney admitted today it will probably lose $200 million on this very film. and at&t has one-upped facebo facebook's $100 million education budget. it's pledged to spend $250 million to reduce the high school dropout rate over the next five years. and finally tonight, there are reports peyton manning is picking the denver broncos as his text team. both sides are still hashing out

a deal for the former colts' quarterback. once the deal is finalized, sources say denver will trade tim tebow. how about that, larry? >> all right. many thanks, cnbc's seema, appreciate it. looks like peyton's got a new place. if the economy doesn't get it together, the economy could fall off a cliff next year. next up, we'll speak to al blinder. he's got a scary piece in "the wall street journal" today about falling off a cliff. ♪

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[ donovan ] and i thought "i can't do this, it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. "thewelcome back to welcome back to "the kudlow report." if we don't get our act together, the economy could fall off a fiscal cliff next year. that's acorcording to our next guest, alan blinder. he writes in a well-read op-ed in "the wall street journal," the u.s. cruises towards a 2013

fiscal cliff. well, i sure agree tax hikes will sink the economy, but i think spending cuts would help confidence and economic growth. here now to make his case is an old friend of the show, alan blinder, distinguished professor of economics at princeton university. alan, as always, welcome back to the program. >> hello, larry. >> before i get to tax hikes, i gist want to ask you because i don't understand. i think spending cuts, spending restraint, limited government, across the board, cuts just what the doctor ordered for confidence and economic growth. why do you oppose them? >> well, it depends what "they" are. there are a lot of things we don't want to cut and things we should cut. back to you, how will you get members of congress to agree on the list? >> they've already got the list. you've got $30 billion scheduled for january

alan, if we can't cut $40 billion, we'll never cut. >> we can and indeed we need to cut more than that going forward. i don't think there's any doubt about that. >> why did you write what you wrote? >> i don't believe anybody agrees that that formula will be allowed to go into effect because of the large hit it takes out of the pentagon. so congress is, i believe, and i think almost everyone believes congress is not going to let that happen. >> but if you had your druthers, you would have it happen. >> i don't think that would have been my list, but i would have something happening, sure. >> all right. well, you may be right. republicans may make a run at shifting around the composition of those cuts. all right. i just want to clarify that. now, i totally agree with you, alan, that huge tax hikes are a bad idea. the marginal rates will go sky high up to 45%. let me ask you this. why does your -- i think she's a friend of yours, christine roamer, she'swriting in "the

new york times," we could double tax rates and not harm the economy. doesn't that run against everything, even if you're a keynesian, run against her own work? >> first, i don't think anybody wants to double tax rates. if we went back to the clinton tax rates, as you know, the top bracket would go up to 39.6, which is not a crushing -- which is not a crushing burden. we're really talking about something like that. now, if you look at the whole budget picture going way out and you ask, can you solve it all with tax increases, the answer is absolutely no. >> yeah. i was very surprised that she wrote what she wrote. alan, don't you think we need pro-growth tax reform? and in particular, i'd keep the bush tax rates on hold until we got reform. but what about corporate tax reform? we're the highest in the world now. >> the corporate tax is a mess. i agree with that completely. it would be great if we could get a bunch of technicians, some accountants, lawyers and economists all in a room

together that weren't even affiliated with any political party. and they came up with a tax reform. now, getting that through congress is another thing entirely. what i think is quite unrealistic and what you hear all the time, larry, is we're going to raise a lot of revenue from tax reform. tax reform's needed, and it's a good thing for the reason you said. but i think if you go about it it with the notion you're going to raise a lot of revenue in the act of reforming the tax code, you're being very unrealistic. >> i agree with you. i think you're spot on. let me just ask you one more. in your exxon piece today, you mentioned unemployment compensation. don't you this i that two years of unemployment compensation structured every career for three years, harcsn't that increased the unemployment rate? are we not paying people not to work? >> probably a little bit. but on the other hand, you have a huge need to prop up demand. you have huge humanitarian needs in a world where the unemployment rate is still 8.3%.

so yeah, i think you probably added a tenth or two, maybe three. but you alleviated an awful lot of hardship and propped up demand. >> and aren't you worried that over time all these transfer payments, food stamps, housing subsidies including unemployment compensation, a whole slew of them, you know, 40% of american households are on government assistance now. i mean, this is a european story. are we going to have to lower that? are we going to have to put restrictions on that like welfare reform and ship a lot of it to the states? >> i think shifting a lot of it to the states is a terrible idea for many reasons. i don't think we have -- i mean i'm sure we don't actually have a generous welfare system, in general. i'm not talking about any particular piece. the reason that we have so many people drawing benefits now and in the very recent past is the economy has been so awful. a lot of these people in a normal economy would be working and not drawing these benefits. >> all right. we have to leave it there. i do think we should look at the

eligibility and the work requirements, but that's just my view. thank you, professor blinder. all right, folks. we're just days before the supreme court listens to arguments on obamacare. for decades, women pushed back against government dictating doctors, so where are they now? gloria and betsy are going to debate next up on "kudlow." early stages of cancer and it's something that we're extremely proud of. you see someone who is saved because of this technology, you know that the things that you do in your life, matter. if i did have an opportunity to meet a cancer survivor, i'm sure i could take something positive away from that. [ jocelyn ] my name is jocelyn, and i'm a cancer survivor. [ mimi ] i had cancer. i have no evidence of disease now. [ erica ] i would love to meet the people that made the machines. i had such an amazing group of doctors and nurses, it would just make such a complete picture

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-- for women, after we pass this bill, being a woman will no longer be a preexisting medical condition. >> all right. that was nancy pelosi back in march of 2010. that's the night the bill passed. obamacare, that is. now, just one week from today, the supreme court begins its three-day review of obamacare. and while the epic health care battle rages on, here's one of the many questions being asked. do women have a better deal under the obama health law or not? is obamacare a bad plan for women? here now is women's rights attorney gloria allred and betsy mccaughey, author of "the obama health law." thank you both. betsy mccaughey, some pros. women went to the barricades for decades to prevent the government from being accessing their medicine records. what do you mean? >> and yet this law allows the government to do both, to see what's in your medical records

and to dictate to your doctors. under section 1311 of this law, you will be required to be enrolled in a qualified plan, that's the one-size-fits-all government-designed plan, and it says right there in the law that insurers can play only the doctors who do whatever the federal government dictates. that means that your federal government is going to be in charge of your care even if you are in a private plan, you purchased yourself. >> records are made accessible. >> yes. >> i want to go to gloria in a second. >> let me explain. >> no, hang on. records accessible and government can tell doctors how to treat women. >> that's right. medical care is going to be standardized, and doctors will have to choose in many cases between doing what's right for their patient and avoiding a government penalty. >> all right, gloria, what's your response to betsy? >> first, let's call it what it is, the affordable care act. and that is what makes it so good for women because women can't afford a lot of the care that is out there today.

many women delay, for example, getting preventative health care such as mammograms which will be provided at no cost to them under the affordable care act. such as screening for sexually transmitted diseases, screening for cervical cancer, all of which will be provided to women under the affordable care act. so these scare tactics don't scare me and shouldn't scare women. >> oh, no. these are not scare tactics. this is the letter of the law. section 1302 of this law gives the president the power to decide what your health plan covers. right now women can decide for themselves which health plan they want. now you have to enroll in a one-size-fits-all government-designed health plan. and even though there's been a big controversy recently about coverage for contraceptions, nothing in this big law guarantees coverage for contraceptions. the current president says cover contraceptions. the next president could say just the opposite.

why subject your health care and health insurance decisions to the whim of whoever occupies the white house? you may not agree with the next president occupying the white house. >> well, if that's the case, if it depends on the next president, if you're right about that, then we'd better have president obama as the next president because he feels strongly that women should have access to contraception, and that insurance plans -- >> you know, gloria, you're prostituting yourself. >> -- at no cost to them. >> listen, you're prostituting yourself. you're not selling sex, but you're selling out to support a president because you want to support the democrats. read the law and find out how much women sacrifice under this law. another example, larry -- >> wait a second. wait a second. >> under this law, you have a tell-all relationship with every doctor you see. >> betsy, betsy, betsy -- >> because of the medical records -- >> betsy, are you there? >> your foot doctor knows about it. you have an abortion, your orthopedist is going to know

about it. >> gloria, let me ask you, under this law as betsy mccaughey is making it out to be, basically a central planning board in the middle of obamacare -- >> right. >> -- is going to dictate to doctors how to treat women. doesn't that upset you? annoy you? isn't this the thing that betsy's talking about? >> first of all, i don't agree with her, and i resent her saying that i'm prostituting myself. >> you are. >> and i have to ask her, is she related to rush limbaugh? is that why she's using that word? i take great offense to that. and stop interrupting me. it's not courteous and i expect you to be courteous. let me just say this. there are a lot of benefits for women under this bill. and they need to have it. for example, it's going to ban gender rating in insurance premiums. right now women often have to pay so much more than men simply because they're women. for their insurance premiums. in some states, 50% more. simply because they are women. in other states, 30%. and "the new york times" has

said in most states women have to pay more than men for insurance, and half of all women can't even afford insurance. they will have access to insurance under this. that's why it's so important. >> gloria is saying it's okay to sur re surrender your privacy and choices. by the way, mammograms and other screenings are not free. you are forced to pay up front entirely for these services in your premium. and then if you decide to get a mammogram, you don't have a co-pay. it's not free. you were forced to prepay for it. >> i'm sorry, we're out of time. i've got 25 seconds. quick response, please. >> well, i mean, women are going to be able to get preventative health care services they need and that they deserve. sexually transmitted diseases. they're going to get a lot of maternal benefiteds they can't otherwise get. and all of this because of the affordable health care act. my hat is off to president obama and the congress for passing it. >> no free lunch, though. that's the problem. >> that's right. you give up your freedom and

your privacy. >> i'm not up to speed on all these issues. i appreciate both of you coming on the show, gloria allred and betsy mccaughey. i will just say there is no such thing as a free lunch. somebody someplace is going to have to pay for that. it reminds me of the catholic bishops. they'll have to pay when they don't want to pay. anyway, we'll cover this more as the supreme court debate heats up. that's it for tonight's show. i'm larry kudlow. we'll be back tomorrow evening. [ male announcer ] any technology not moving forward is moving backward. [ engine turns over, tires squeal ] introducing the lexus enform app suite -- available now on the all-new 2013 lexus gs. there's no going back. see your lexus dealer. i remember the day my doctor told me i have an irregular heartbeat, and that it put me at 5-times greater risk of a stroke. i was worried. i worried about my wife, and my family.

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