jamie dimon. my question, if these banks are too big to fail, maybe they're too big and should be broken up. and for investors, king dollar is back. oil and gold are falling. should you be buying deflationary stocks? "the kudlow report," just moments away. don't forget to watch jamie dimon on "meet the press" this sunday. remember, i do think he's honest. i think his firm is honest. my question is, can any really understand these positions? if jamie dimon can't, perhaps we have to rethink the whole notion of the financial engineering. and by the way, i think the government's very right to be very tough, and the volcker rule, yeah, what can i say? i say there's always a bull market somewhere, i promise to try to find it just for you. see you monday! larry, what are you looking at to close out the week? >> jimmy, your pal, bill clinton, called obama an amateur who doesn't know how to be president. good evening, everybody. i'm larry kudlow. this is "the kudlow report." so get this, fascinating, former president bill clinton blasting current president obama.

he's calling him an amateur. clinton said you don't know how to be president, the economy's a mess, america's lost its aaa credit rating. heck, i couldn't have said it better myself. but this is tough stuff from a brand-new book. and if that weren't bad enough, it turns out that obama forgot how bad the recession was. but you know what? america hasn't forgotten. my question is, do you have any idea how stalled out the recovery is, mr. president? and of course, jpmorgan's $2 billion bond bet gone bad. jamie dimon responds to his critics a short time ago. take a listen. >> we know we were sloppy, we know we were stupid, we know there was bad judgment. >> all right. we're going to have much more of nbc's david gregory interview with jamie dimon later in the program, but i want to ask right up front, if a bank like jpmorgan is too big to fail, does that just mean it's too big, and therefore to save taxpayers' money, should that

bank be broken up? we will debate. and the trouble with the obama gang. they think they can balance the budget now by taxing fat cats and fat people. a message to the president, it ain't going to work. our top story, today's blockbuster headline, president clinton calling obama an amateur, this depose back to last august, 2011. it's according to a new book, robert klein. mr. klein's going to join us on the program on tuesday. and on top of that, president obama just told us he, quote, forgot how bad the recession is. take a listen to this. >> it was a house of cards and it collapsed in the most destructive, worst crisis that we've seen since the great depression. and sometimes people forget the magnitude of it. you know, and you saw some of that, i think in the video that was shown. sometimes i forget. >> and oh, by the way, i hope the president hasn't forgotten just how anemic the recovery is. let's go to our distinguished panelists, ari melber, a

correspondent for "the nation" magazine, dave fer doeza, "washington examiner," editorial page editor. scott rasmussen waiting in the wings. gentleman, i want to go to this point. obama is getting blasted by clinton. this comes from a meeting last summer. okay. do you remember obama at the end of 2010 couldn't get the bush tax cuts extended. everybody wanted it. he goes to the white house on a saturday afternoon, can't make the sale. he brings bill clinton in. clinton stands in the press room, and makes the sale by simply saying, you know, what, if we don't extend these tax cuts, we're going to have a double-dip recession. now, i think that's what clinton's talking about. and i want to ask you what this means that clinton called obama an amateur. >> well, i think he's felt that way a long time, if you read jonathan altar's book on the first part of the obama administration, you see there's a lot of resentment there about the idea this guy just came in, i think the words he uses is, he

dropped his bags off at the senate and started running for president, who isn't nearly ready for the job. it actually makes sense that clinton would feel that way about president obama and, you know, to hear a story like that kind of reinforces -- >> this is brutal stuff. this is brutal stuff, from an outspoken president, who obviously he wants his wife to run. i mean, that's in the book. and in the book she says no. but what does it mean? clinton says obama doesn't know how to be president and is incompetent. and i want to just add to that, why is it that obama couldn't make a bowles simpson budget deal, deficit limit deal, debt limit deal the way bill clinton did with newt gingrich? in other words, clinton is on to something in these criticisms, is he not? >> well, look, president clinton did two things when he faced a recalcitrant republican congress. number one, he didn't blink in showdowns over shutting down the government. so he had meddle. number two, with as you pointed out, larry, he was willing to make big deals. but the first thing was being

tough. and i think president clinton's public, and if these reports are believed, private concerns with president obama has been not going at the republicans the same way. you have to work from strength, if you want to make deals. >> just in a second, before we get scott rasmussen, do you think obama's an amateur? >> i do not. you talk to people in finance, they don't think that defaulting on the debt was a good idea, but that was a political fight that hurt obama. >> including me. i was critical of both sides on that. hang in for one second. i want to bring in my great fend, scott rasmussen. he's got brand-new poll out today. this is big stuff. mitt romney has now moved to 50% and seems to be pulling away from president obama. now, scott, this is a top front page story, you're telling me. 50% means romney can win, and he's got a seven-point lead. what's going on here? >> well, i think the biggest thing we're seeing in this poll

is the message we've been talking about all along. it is still all about the economy. the numbers started shifting in romney's direction last friday, right after that jobs report came out. the more there was economic news that suggests there are reasons to be concerned, the more it helps mitt romney. i don't think he's pulling away right now. i think he's at the upper end of a range, but i think when the focus is on the economy right now, mitt romney's prospects are as good as they're going to be. >> 50% approval rating says he might get 50% in the election. now, here's the deal. >> that's right. >> right? i mean, you taught me that. other people have taught me that. the other thing is, in your poll -- >> president obama's job approval rating has been in the mid- to high 40s for 33 months. and unless he can move that up, he's in a little bit of trouble. if the economy does get better by october, well, then the president will be doing much better than he is right now. but if the economy continues to show signs of concern, the president's going to have a real uphill fight. larry, you keep talking about the tepid pace of recovery. 60% of americans believe we are

still in a recession. a majority has believed that every night for more than four years. >> and scott rasmussen, you've got another little sub-poll here. 37% give obama positive marks on economic issues. 37%? i got friends of mine who could do better than that. >> well, two out of three americans trust their own judgment on the economy more than the president's. but two out of three also trust their own judgment more than mitt romney's. this is a situation where it's a referendum on the president and the economy is the key issue. and larry, i will keep saying that to you every time i'm on this year. the number to look at is how do people rate their own personal finances? right now, it's better than it was last summer, but not quite as good as it was the day that president obama took office. >> scott rasmussen, thank, scott, for the update. we appreciate it. we're back with eric melber and ace reporter of the "national review." this is just too much fun.

the ezra klein book quotes bullock as calling obama an amateur, says he doesn't know how to be president, and says he's incompetent. what's your take on that, bob costa? >> i think the clinton/obama relationship when it comes to politics is interesting. i think obama's trying to run a '96 clinton campaign. but clinton had a great economy, obama's running on a distractions campaign, but doesn't have the great economy to boost him. i think president obama's in a little bit of a perilous situation. he's tacking left on social issues and is not talking about the economy at all. >> and it was clinton who made the sale, i just said this, clinton made the sale in late 2010, in the white house press room, on a saturday afternoon. he said if we don't extend the bush tax cuts, we're going to have a double-dip recession. he did that so brilliantly, i'm soft on clinton, i always have been soft on clinton. clinton made deals with newt gingrich for welfare reform and balanced budget the issue >> obama can't make the sale to

the center. obama's losing 40% to a federal inmate. obama can't win those reagan democrats. clinton was able to articulate an economic measure that connected not only with the center, but the reagan democrats. i don't see obama appealing to that part of his party at all? >> why would obama say out there that he forgot the magnitude of the recession. what's that all about? why would he make a comment like that? >> i think this campaign from the beginning, this re-election campaign, has done a lot to try to remind people just how bad it was. what they've tried to say is, it may feel bad, but it was really bad before. that is like any historical or counterfactual argument, so what he's saying is it's not just, larry, or you the voters, even he forgets. it's an inclusive way of saying we all forget it. >> i just think it's a dumb way to approach it, because you just heard scott rasmussen, the guy's running -- obama, he's running at a 37% economic approval. if i had a 37% economic approval, i wouldn't be saying i forgot the magnitude of the recession. >> i've got to tell you --

>> i just wouldn't say that. >> i have to say -- >> there's a lot of things i might say, but that wouldn't be one of them. >> i think his numbers given this economy are surprisingly high. they are higher than other presidents who have dealt with similar levels of recession. it's striking. >> jim, you've said before, this is all distractions, including gay marriage and student loans and a whole bunch of things. first of all, what number on the polling scale is gay marriage? where'd that come out? >> well, when pew put 18 different issues in front of the respondents in one of their surveys, asked them to rank them, the jobs, economy, the budget all came first. and gay marriage was 18th out of -- >> 18th. 18th. >> now, i don't think obama wanted to do this now. i think he did want to do it before the election, but this entire campaign so far, when you talk about tax breaks for private jets, when you talk about the buffett rule, when you're talking about gay marriage, when you're talking about a student loan bill that saves people seven bucks.

you're basically taking as many bright, shiny objects and holding them up and saying, hey, look at this. >> do distract a child. but what were the top issues? >> the top issues were the economy, the jobs, and the budget deficit. >> that's really shocker. okay, so this -- he may not remember, obama may not remember how bad the recession was, but a lot of people remember how anemic the recovery is, right? we're at 2% recovery. we've got 23 million people either unemployed, underemployed, or left work all together. middle class income is actually falling, not rising. >> the president wants to talk about socially liberal issues, talk about going to hollywood. but the real thing people are forgetting this election is the failed stimulus. he tried to stimulate the economy with chunks of cash, it didn't work. romney has to hammer that as much as he talks about jobs. >> what's he going to stay? what's his argument? more stimulus? i had larry summers on, he said, the problem was he needed more stimulus.

>> he wants to ladle more cash to special interest groups. you see obama going and throwing red meat to his base on gay marriage, student loans. the students and the social liberals were already in obama's camp. the stimulus failed. where are the independents going to go? >> purely, objectively, as you do, brilliantly, is mitt romney taking advantage of these economic weaknesses? now, the rasmussen poll says the answer is yes. where do you come out? is romney taking advantage of obama's economic weaknesses? i think politically, he's not breaking through. he hasn't given a big speech to say, this is what i did in the private sector, this is what i'm going to do for america. and he hasn't figured out how he wants to deal with what you're calling distractions. a lot of people in the gay community don't feel it's a distraction. george w. bush didn't think that gay marriage was a distraction when he ran on it in 2004. i was on the other side of that issue. >> we're not saying it's a distraction in and of itself, but a distraction from the main issue of this economy. >> isn't it? i know it's an important issue

to a lot of people, but it's 18th on the pew list. why would obama get trapped in 1 18th on the pew list. and by the way, he's got swing states that are against gay marriage. i just don't get it. >> i think when you're talking to -- >> i understand the conscience position. i'm okay with that. i'm kind of a live and let guy live myself, but i don't understand the politics of it. >> i know we're almost out of time, but to split the difference between the gentleman over here, if you look at the student interest, student loan issue, right, you're talking about $10, $15 per student. it's a nonissue if you did pass it, right? on the other hand, it's such a nonissue that this republican house still wouldn't go to a vote on it, right? >> but obama -- >> wait, wait, wait. i think at a certain point, when you're faced with these small issues, you have to wonder, if you can't get anything through congress anyway, you're going end to up talking about it. >> i've got to get out. >> i think they wanted to pay for it. >> i've got to get out. this race is beginning to look like it's over. i just want to say that.

mitt romney's the most underrated -- he's not perfect, your right. he's underratored. ari melber, robert costa, thank you. ahead, jamie dimon speaks. more of the "meet the press" anchor dave gregory's explosive interview with jpmorgan's ceo. they got a $2 billion blunder. jamie's on the hot seat. later in the show, big government obama overreach to solve obesity. oh, no. now they want to tax fat people to balance the budget. guess what? it ain't going to work. don't forget, folks. free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. "the kudlow report" is coming right back and we found a group out there that completely agrees with me. ♪ let the market take care of itself, and i promise you that soon we'll be living in bliss ♪ ♪ you don't want a recession, well, look to this creed and you

might learn a lesson ♪ ♪ the kudlow creed ♪ take a good hard look at a market that's free ♪

another roller-coaster week on wall street. the dow posting its worst weekly

drop so far this year. almost 2%. all the major index logging a second weekly decline. but my king dollar idea is on a hot streak. an impressive ten-day rally has added the 2% to the dxy dollar index. this is the first and best ten-day winning streak for the greenback since august 2008. so let's talk. zack carabell, river twice research, who penned today's piece, jpmorgan's $2 billion loss fueled by efforts to avoid risk, and steve weiss, author of the new book, "the big win." gentleman, can i just get a quick pass. we're going to cover the jpmorgan, jamie dimon, a quick pass, how much damage was done? >> he's staked a lot of that reputation on meticulous loss control, and you don't lose $4 billion even in a $100 bank or a $200 billion bank or whatever it is without risk going awry.

>> it didn't seem to have a big impact on the overall market, steve weiss. yes, the bank stocks went down in the main, but citigroup was really the worst. goldman and citigroup, besides jpmorgan. a quick thought, how big a deal was this for the stock market? >> it's one more data point to erode retail investor confidence. it's why they haven't come into market. on the same day you have jpmorgan, you have the evolving story of chesapeake energy. people pick up the papers and those are front-page news and they're saying, wait a minute, i was supposed to be able to trust jamie dimon. it was the best bank. it navigated 2008 and 2009. and here we see, it's nothing more than a large hedge fund. that's the thought process. i don't know if i agree. i'm a shareholder, but i'm not a happy shareholder. and right now i'm debating what to do with my position. >> zach karabell, i want to ask you what this means, the dollar, my king dollar, is very strong. and as you might expect, because

it's strong, oil prices, i believe, hit $96 today, crude oil. that's a low for the year. gold falling into the 1,500s. and treasury rates, what, 1.9%. is this a deflation issue? strong dollar, weak gold and commodities, and strong treasury bonds, but low rates. what's this mean to you? >> look, there is certainly a degree of global deflation in that the continual progressive effects of technology are to lower the cost of goods or to increase the ability to produce them at lower cost. the other aspect of the dollar is simply the euro is clearly not a currency of alternate or last resort. so you done have another global currency for what really is a global financial market, as you know better than anyone. and that too offers amazing balance to the dollar, combined with the fact that we seem to be the only place for all of our debt and fiscal potential that seems at least relatively safe.

so i think it's more of those latter two things than it is deflation, per se. >> but you know, steve weiss, i don't think myself, personally, when i look at the action in the dollar and the drop in oil and gold, i don't think our economy is growing fast enough, right now. we had a 3% idea at the end of last year, and the early winter. now we're back to 2% with lousy job numbers. steve, it just seems to me, we need to see better growth stats for the stock market to really rebound and get rid of this correction. i am going to give you the last word. >> larry, i agree with you, and you and i are bullish on the dollar when nobody else was. we're at 2% growth. at best, the economic numbers continue to trend down. i'm worried about the market. i remain very bearish. >> all right, we'll leave it there. up next on kudlow, u.s. high tax policies may be driving out the cream of the crop. one of our most successful

billionaires picking up and moving to singapore. that can't be good. and later on, jpmorgan ceo jamie dimon speaks out a short time ago. we will have more of "meet the press'" david gregory exclusive with the dimon in the rough. "the kudlow report" will be right back. i look at her, and i just want to give her everything.

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the cnbc newsroom. e evening, bertha. >> just minutes ago, chesapeake announcing it is getting $3 billion in unsecured loans from goldman sachs just hours after the embattled energy firm said it would delay asset sales in order to save cash. fitch estimates a funding gap of about $10 million. meantime, jpmorgan is the stock of the day. late this afternoon, the folks over at s&p saying they're putting them on credit watch negative because they're concerned that there may be some more risky bets within its trading operations. in terms of volume today, a record day, 217 million plus shares trading hands of jpmorgan. nearly eight times average daily volume. we'll see a preview from jamie dimon's exclusive interview on meet the press coming up in a few minutes. and we learned today that eduardo saverin renounced his

u.s. citizenship and is becoming a suicicitizen of singapore. he issued a statement saying his decision had nothing to do with the ipo. but larry, there is speculation, though there's nothing in the statement about it, that it may have something to do with taxes. >> taxes matters. marginal tax rates matter. cnbc, bertha coombs, thank you very much. up next on "kudlow," banking giant jamie dimon responds to his critics on the $2 billion bet gone bad. and later, the fbi unveiling a new weapon in its fight against the multi-billion dollar crime and that weapon is you. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm larry kudlow. in this half hour, jpmorgan's jamie dimon $2 billion bet that went wrong. it's launched a firestorm on wall street and washington. and nbc's "meet the press" host david gregory scored an exclusive with jamie dimon himself. we're going to show some of that to you in just a moment. plus, we have a congressional debate about whether too big to fail banks should be broken up in order to save taxpayers.

and i hate to say it, folks, but the obama administration's new plan to balance the budget by taxing fat people ain't going to work. how about a little personal freedom? how about some exercise and self-restraint instead of taxes? but first up, all eyes on "meet the press" this sunday morning. beleaguered jamie dimon sat down with david gregory late this afternoon. and after yesterday's startling disclosures. take a listen. >> the immediate question the s.e.c. is looking into this, did the bank break any laws? did it violate any accounting rules or s.e.c. rules? >> so we've had audit, legal, risk, compliance, some of our best people look into all of that. we know we were sloppy. we know we were stupid. we know there was bad judgment. we don't know if any of that's true yet. of course, regulators should look at something like this. that's their job. we're totally open for regulators and they will come to their own conclusions. we intend to fix it, learn from it, and be a better company when it's done. >> all right. don't forget to watch the full

interview, "meet the press," this sunday. now, jpmorgan's $2 billion banking blunder drawing increased congressional scrutiny this evening. tennessee tennessee republican bob corker calling for a quick hearing to investigate the losses. john harwood joins us now, live from washington with all those details. good evening, john. >> good evening, larry. you know, this brought into sharp focus the conflict between one of the authors of the so-called volcker rule, senator carl levin, who chairs the permanent subcommittee on investigations, and jamie dimon, one of the chief of those rule. he told me this afternoon that the jpmorgan trades were clearly in violation of the volcker rule, and warned against people like jamie dimon lobbying regulators to weaken the rules even before it takes effect later this year. here's carl levin. >> mr. dimon has argued that the activities which occur outside of the united states should not be subject to dodd/frank or to

the volcker rule. this was a lond activity. but, boy, that's a huge loophole as well. so he's fighting for two or three loopholes and just this little bit of language. and we hope that the regulators will not give him any of the ones he's fighting for, because it would undermine the very purpose of dodd/frank. >> senator eleven also criticized republican presidential nominee, mitt romney, who has called for the repeal of dodd/frank. romney said today he favors instead common sense regulation. but carl levin said dodd frank is the only common sense regulation now on the books, and it's urgently needed so americans don't have to bail out banks one more time. >> we don't ever want to bail out banks again. we never should have to bail out banks again. but if they get away with this kind of bet, we're going to be right back in the soup again. we're going to end up either facing economic disaster, a depression, or having to bail out banks again. we don't want to have to be put in that position. >> the obama campaign also took

aim at mitt romney, calling his desire to roll back dodd/frank reckless. we'll see where this leads on capitol hill. as you mentioned, bob corker on the banking committee says he wants hearing on this. he's asked tim johnson to be chairman for those hearings. >> john, just briefly, look, on the romney hook, okay? you had a great interview with carl levin, appreciate that. on the romney hook, if there's a hue and cry next week about jpmorgan making very risky loans by london whale traders, don't you think romney's going to have to weigh in, a little more detail on how he would handle this? >>ic there's a good chance that he will. it was notable that he felt the need to put out a statement today. remember, mitt romney's been spending months saying that dodd/frank was an impediment to job creation and an impediment to american business. he took a different tact with the statement today, basically saying, i've long said that derivatives should be closely

regulated, subjected to common sense regulation. i underscore or i repeat that call today. that's not the same thing as dodd/frank, and we'll see whether or not he feels the need to put something on the table to flesh out that commitment. >> great stuff. many thanks to john harwood from washington, d.c. this all begs another interesting question. are america's biggest banks simply still too big to fail? and taxpayers still on the hook. joining us now, two distinguished members of the house financial services committee, brad sherman's a democrat from california, david schweikert's a republican from arizona. welcome, gentleman. brad sherman, what would you do right now? what would your first, if you could wave a magic wand, what would you do, brad? >> as far as the issue of too big to fail, i think too big to fail is too big to exist. you know, even a protozoa, when it gets to saea certain size, i able to divide and the resulting

two cells are healthier. given the fact that most of the folks up on wall street are considerably smarter than protozoa, you'd think they'd be able to do the same. reason the we want to do that, we neveren again want a situation where a bank could call washington and say, you better bail us out, because if we're going down, we're taking the economy with us. and we never want to be in a situation where any one bank has a lower cost of capital, because investors believe that it has a safety net, because if it ever gets in trouble, it can seek a bailout in washington. all banks ought to be part of the capitalist financial system. >> let me get dave schweikert back in. i think sherman's making some good points. and richard fisher, the president of the dallas fed, has said time and time again, and i think he said it today or yesterday or whenever, he's said it on our show, banks that are too big to fail, and there's still a bunch of them, you know, if they're too big to fail, they're too big. and if they're too big, they ought to be broken up.

dave schweikert, what's your thought on that? >> and in many ways, this is our own fault. and those of us who are policymakers. look, i actually believe some of these banks are too big. but the way you deal with that is competition. you actually design a regulatory environment so those mid-sized, mid-point, mid-market banks grow, take market share, because the big banks cannot compete and reflect consumer demand as quickly. create a dynamic, competitive market. and that's how you end up with right-sizing. >> all right. let me bring in an old friend, bill isaac. he's a former federal deposit insurance corporation chairman. he's now chairman of the fifth third bank corps. bill isaac, though, i think brad sherman is correct. there really isn't competition. the largest, gigantic banks, citibank, jpmorgan, those guys do get cheaper money. those guys are too big to fail. if they are taking outside risks

the way jpmorgan did and they didn't have the controls, aren't taxpayers on the hook? it's not in the dodd/frank bill reform. what are we going to do, bill isaac? >> well, i would agree that we have a number of banks in the country that are just too big to fail, because they generally don't get in trouble alone. they get in trouble at the same time. and they comprise about half the economy, about half the financial system. so we really can't let these banks fail right now. what we do about it is a very different issue. i, frankly, think that if we had the right regulatory policies in place, these banks wouldn't dominate the way they do now. i also think that there are some things that the regulators can do to make these -- make the market imposed more disciplined on these banks. >> bill, wouldn't you agree that the fastest way to getting right sizing in market share would be actually making sure we have a regulatory environment that creates a fairly dynamic

competitive environment so some of those structural benefits that a big bank gets, they lose, because people nipping at their heels in the growth? >> dave, if can i respond to that, the key to being successful in the financial world is having a low cost of capital. being able to take significant upside risks, but still have a low cost of capital. and if you're too big to fail, you get the low cost of capital. because -- >> well, brad -- >> because you're able to turn to your investors, turn to your creditors and say, if we go under, we've got the treasury department on speed dial. they'll have to bail us out. they can't live with another lehman brothers, they can't live with another depression. >> brad, that's ultimately our fault. if we make it very clear, you don't get a bailout, you engage in dumb acts, the market actually raises your cost of capital, creating a competitive edge for those companies that are managing -- >> we have can -- >> well, with hang on a

second -- >> we haven't convinced to the markets that we shouwill say no. we should have said no last time. >> bill, right now you have this void. the federal reserve has said that the volcker rule for proprietary trading, banks making investments with their own money, as this was, this loss in london was a bad job of hedging corporate's bonds, which was the house's money. the bank's own money and they screwed up the hedging. and jamie dimon has said that. jamie has said, it was basically stupid. but the trouble is, stupid right now is legal, because the volcker rule still hasn't been nailed down. the fed says we've got two more years, and taxpayers are on the hook, bill. this is what troubles me as a free market guy, because when taxpayers, through the fdic are on the hook, that's not the free market. >> i agree, larry. and i think that we need to do some things to get the market

engages. for example, dick covosovich, the retired chairman and ceo of wells fargo and i recently wrote an article in the "financial times," in which we called for the regulators to require the major banks in this country and abroad to issue every year, at least annually, a lot of long-term senior and subordinated debt. this will impose some market discipline on these banks. they won't be able to raise that debt or the price of it will be too high if they're taking big risks. because we won't be allowed these long-term creditors. the fdic just put out a plan this week in which they made it clear, they're not going to bail out the long-term creditors. so if we do some of these -- go ahead. >> i would also agree the power to come down to washington and say, you saw what happened in 2008, you have to save us or you're coming down with us, i oppose those bailouts, but that was an argument that most members of congress eventually bought and there's a lot of thinking on wall street that if

push comes to shove, they will also get bailed out, if they're too big. >> dave schweikert -- >> you're making the ultimate moral hazard argument, that once you do it, you create the moral hazard that becomes part of the cycle. >> that's right. that's right. >> and bill, ultimately, wouldn't you want to see the sha shareholders being the one who sa said, look, we're the one that took in the shorts. even jpmorgan had $1 billion on $100 billion of movement, it's still the shareholders that actually they're demanding corporate leadership. >> i've got to get out. i've got to get out, gentleman. it's a great discussion. the shareholders did take it on the chin today. but i wonder, if lesser banks -- i mean, i think the world of jamie dimon and i think the world of jpmorgan. but there are lesser banks and lesser ceos that may be running these high-risk trades for the next couple of years, and that puts taxpayers on the hook.

it bothers me. anyway, bill isaac, thank you. house members, brad sherman and dave schweikert, thank you very much. up next on kudlow, the fbi unveiling a new weapon in its fight against a multibillion-dollar crime, and that web is you. and later, what if the reason jack sprack could eat no fat was because he couldn't afford it. no kidding? is an obesity tax the way to put america back on a diet?

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it's the best thing ever. as a matter of fact, i'm taking my savings so that i can go to hawaii. ♪ the fbi launches a campaign to have the public health catch corporate spies, some of them company insiders. it's a big deal, the fbi estimates espionage costs companies $13 billion since october, just about seven months ago. cnbc's eamon javers has the story for us. good evening, eamonn. >> good evening, larry. the fbi says it's alarmed at the spike it's seeing in corporate espionage here in the united states. they say arrests have doubled for corporate espionage in just the past four years, and this year is on pace to be bigger than ever, so what are they doing about it? well, they're going to the public with these billboards and bus shelter ads. they launched this campaign today. it's a nationwide campaign in

cities targeting areas where there's a high concentration of defense contractors. i talked to the fbi's head of counterintelligence. i asked him about this and i asked him, what he sees these foreign spies are looking for. take a listen. >> they're looking for everything from price lists to the latest pharmaceutical research, marketing strategies, new product information. typically, whatever you view as your crowned jewels, at your company, is likely the target of foreign economic espionage. >> and larry, the fbi rolled out a whole new site on its website today, advising companies and employers what to look for when you're looking for the potential threats and the director of the fbi counterintelligence office gave us a couple of the key indicators. >> there are warning signs and indicators. they include everything from that employee who's working very late, but really doesn't have to, coming in on weekends, but really may not have to.

trying to ask a lot of questions or access a portion of the company or some of the proprietary data that he really doesn't have a need to see. >> and larry, as an employee who is working late tonight, that's just not the only thing that they're looking for. they want to couple those behaviors that he just detailed with patterns of behavior that they're seeing in the person's life, whether or not the person has a drug or alcohol problem. whether the person's going through a messy divorce or a financial hardship. they say those kinds of experiences can make an employee vulnerable to an approach from a foreign intelligence agent, and they say that those approaches are happening more now than ever before. larry? >> all right. many thanks, eamon javers in washington, d.c. up next on kudlow, obama administration thinks it's going to balance the budget by taxing fat cats and fat americans. well, wrong again. we've got jared bernstein versus steve moore. you don't want to miss this debate. whatever happened to free choice? keep it right here.

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all right. the institute of medicine, composed of scientists and doctors, proposes using substantial excise taxes on sugar-sweetened beverages to help americans lose weight. huh? wi whatever happened to exercise and self-restraint. why don't you pay tennis three times a week like mwah.

>> i would like to get you out on the tennis court some time. >> be my guest, buddy. he worked for joe biden once upon a time. steve moore is a member of the "wall street journal" editorial board. steve plays a little tennis himself. >> i'll take both of you on. >> you've got it. >> now, jared, you know darned well, administrations are going to embrace this. they figure the road to have a balanced budget is tax fat cats and fat people. and i'm here to tell you it will never work. >> okay, it's not about revenue, it's about spending. look, the reason why this tax makes sense is because of the expense to the rest of us, because of obesity in health care costs. three quick facts for you and steve to digest here. and they're good for you, so you can digest these without putting on any calories. first of all, if you look at 16 to 19-year-old kids, 16 to 19-year-olds, three times more likely to be obese now than they were in the 1970s. fact two, something like between

20 and 30% of the increase in health care spending, directly linked to obesity. fact three, there's a big -- there's a big -- wait, let me finish. almost done. there's a big elasticity on these drinks. raise the price by 10% -- let me finish, let me finish, let me finish! >> you didn't read the editorial? >> i want you to -- i want you to practice your backhand while steve talks. >> here is the main point. this is basically big brother health care. it's not just taxes they're talking about here, larry. it's regulating behavior of individuals. they're basically saying that this coca-cola can is a villainous type of food and we should either tax it out of existence or regulate it, pizza, fried chicken. and by the way, jared, i agree with you, i think obesity is an epidemic problem in this country. but the way to deal with that is you're the ones who created through obama care this universal health care system where we're all insuring

everybody else. if you have an individualized market, which is what we would like to see at "the wall street journa journal", then if you eat a lot of these fatty foods, if you're smoking, doing drugs, you may more for health insurance than i do. do you agree with that kind of system? >> first of all -- >> it's called individual responsibility. >> first of all, obama care isn't in place, so you can't blame that on this. >> it's where we're going. >> second of all, there's a long history, and even the editorial page of the "wall street journal," i think, agrees with this. there's a long history of pagobian taxation, which is taxing things that are costly to the rest of us, like pollution. that's all we're talking about here. it has nothing to do with health care reform and everything to do with diminishing a very harmful spillover cost on the rest of us. >> this is a very dangerous direction you're going in. where do you stop this? do you basically say that if you eat a hostess ho ho, you're going to tax that? are you going to tax pizza or

fried chicken? have subsidies to people ride their bike to work? larry, we do want to have a wellness agenda in this country, but we want a health care system that rewards people for living healthy lifestyles. that's why you andry supply-siders. we think incentives matter. >> i think that's a powerful point. i think the one-sized fits all government health plan does not work. look, we want people to get back into shape. i agree, the obesity thing is not good. but you've got to get out there and do your exercises. you've got to get out there and have some self-restraint. there should be an informational campaign -- >> that's exactly right. >> just like there was with smoking. don't just use this tax lever, because i see that as spreading everywhere through the nanostate. >> so you guys are raising -- you guys are raising a lot of great points, many of which i agree with. particularly on the information side. great role for governments, in terms of informing people about these kinds of risks. but, look, frankly, and i think

you know this, you can put incentives on all day long, but what really drives this sort of thing is the costs. >> i've got a special treat for you. i've got a special -- hang on one second. hang on, hang on. i've got a special treat. i want you to listen to this very carefully. ♪ i've been working hard since the day i was born ♪ ♪ making money any way i can ♪ and i'd like to think that i can do all of this better ♪ ♪ if i lived in free market land ♪ ♪ it's a complex theory, but at the very core, it's simple ♪ ♪ it goes like this ♪ let the market take care of itself ♪ ♪ and i promise you that soon we'll be living in bliss ♪ ♪ the kudlow creed ♪ you don't want a recession ♪ well, look to this creed and you might learn a lesson ♪ ♪ the ckudlow creed ♪ >> i don't know who they are. >> you've become part of pop culture. you've gone viral.

>> jared bernstein, the kudlow creed, free market capitalism, i'll give you the last word. >> this is paefrtly legitimate thing to do. you put a tax on things that impose a cost on the rest of us. it's a good idea -- >> jared, why -- >> steve, we have an obesity epidemic and this is the way to do something about it. >> hang on! >> when steve moore disrupts you this much, it means he's lost the argument, by the way. just so everybody knows. >> why does obama care prohibit higher health care premiums on people who are overweight? why? >> a, it doesn't. and steve, when you interrupt somebody this much, it just shows that you don't have an argument here, so all you can do is talk over the other guy. >> i do! you're big brother! >> my biggest issue here, besides the tax issue, this is nanny state stuff. >> that's right! >> it goes from french fries to mcdonald's hamburgers, to all kinds of comfort food. i don't think taxing -- >> it's taxing an externality.

>> -- taxing for social policy is a good idea. >> how do you feel about taxing polluters? how do you feel about taxing polluters? >> i've got to go. jared bernstein, we'll tax polluters another time. those young men that put the kudlow creed together to rap music, i want to thank them. i don't know who they are, but they're terrific for doing it. that's it for tonight's show. i'm larry kudlow, and yes, free market capitalism is the best path to freedom and prosperity. ♪ let the market take care of itself and i promise you that soon ♪ tdd#: 1-800-345-2550

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