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tv   Fast Money  CNBC  June 18, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT

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have a great evening. see you tomorrow. and the bail out party wins! so why aren't we happy? puzzling market finishes unchanged and the euro falls. it's enough to confuse some of the fastest traders. >> i meep, any time you try to time the market, you get what you deserve right? sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. in this case i was wrong. >> maybe it is time to just hit the beach. >> people might want to turn their screens off. >> we're always trading. joe's brewing coffee trade. live from the nasdaq market
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site, mixed results following the greek vote. the question is how are we trading? i toss it to you. the indexes look virtually unchanged but we are able to hold on to the gains made last week. >> listen. i thought this morning there was a tremendous amount of negativity in terms of where the market was actually trading. you had the nasdaq leading the market higher today. you had financials, technologies bringing the market higher again. if i told you to start today and you are going to have the value of the euro currency down five tenths of a percent, the value of a dollar up basically the same thing. oil down for the day. yet we finished the day higher.
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they are adding about a dollar a share right now. looks like the earnings have come early. 82 cents versus estimates of 78 cents. it looks like the number is out at this point. >> oracle has actually sold off. it's pretty interesting. down to 25 and change may 18. we just basically also traded down to 24 and three quarters back. we have a nice little double bottom. it's coming out now. it looks interesting now.
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>> our record breaking forth quarter featured several all time highs for oracle. total software revenue and total of 11 billion. this is according to the oracle president and cfo. rick is going talk about oracle. obviously we thought we are going to to get an earnings preview but now we can go through this quarter knowing whether or not there are any sips of a slow down. based on this release it does not seem as though there is. >> i like that they are buying back 10 billion in shares.
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already they announce the buy back. let's be honest. we haven't seen the guidance yet. in a lot of ways we are going to talk about today. what is the need for enterprise spending. as we get there. >> according to the press release, a very specific time zone. of course the conference call will get underway. >> they said you're going to have record operating margins sometime this year. so right now, it shouldn't obviously go low. that might be the hidden gem. >> i think the $10 billion repurchase is really key here.
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already again, the noted technology analyst will join us later on in the show to dissect all of oracles results. jc penney michael francis leaving the company after only eight months on the job. when you hear a story of a very short tenured president or any executive, your eyebrows go higher. >> absolutely. especially when he received a signing bonus of $12 million. he is probably going to have to give some of that back depending on why he left. you have a situation where he came in. he was in charge of all the marketing and the strategy. it appears the marketing strategy is not working or doesn't appear to be working. so he takes the fall. but melissa, the other part of this is do you really want ron
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johnson taking control of all of this? they didn't say they were going to to hire somebody to replace him. they said ron johnson is going to do this. >> the ceo has plenty of other jobs than to reimagine the department store experience. >> with remember, you are just -- are we in the second inning of the attempted turn-around? you have to keep that in mind. >> all good points there. thank you so much for joining us. mike, you are in the trade on
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jcp. >> we are short j.c.penney. the fguys they brought in to right the ship didn't get it done tochl see johnson taking over all the different rolls speaks to more negativity. >> it's a heavily shorted stock. what winds up happen something we're trading three year lows somewhere around 23 and you should have a monster volume day.
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>> j.c. penney is trying to be apple or tjx. they have to find who they are, what their niche is. the winner has been tjx. they are gaining market share. the dollar flows, the money, the capital is all going to tjx. >> all right. speculation has been rampant about microsoft's mystery announcement scheduled for later this evening. more on what the tech titan would have in store. so many movers out there. a lot of them have been battling down so far. >> looks like it has happened. it's a head scratcher. not only because microsoft we
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are looking at win dose rt. as an enterprise place. that can be backwards compatible with previous versions of windows. not hard to see why both of them have egg on their face. samsung which has done windows phones in the past. you look at tablet market share. as we get to a windows 8 launch, there are questions about whether it would be able to compete given the fact that a lot of big consumer players don't seem to be buying in.
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are they going to come out with the tablet so that they don't spread their eco-system with the pc players? it's going to be tough. >> i don't think so. >> i think microsoft is dead in the water, i think. >> john, do you think microsoft is dead in the water when it comes to tablets? they have a lot of money to spend to make this work. >> they do. and a lot of people are talking about making enterprise play and not getting into the consumer data. they have to have a presence there. they have got xbox live playing there. google has not had a lot of traction. they seem to be trying to make a
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price play. that's another thing to watch. even though microsoft is so big they cannot compete with the ipad. apple just got that huge buying pow power. where do they price this thing. maybe they will get a sense based on how this has been performed. >> john, thanks so much for your reporting. if you are betting on european sovereign debt, are greek bonds the trade of the year? great to speak with you. you make the point that it's only trading at 13 cents on the dollar but walk us through how you come to the notion on how this is more than 13 cents on the dollar. given all the risks, it's trading appropriately? >> well, listen, obviously the
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market price, but i think what we see is this is a price after wholesale selling by a lot of banks who are worried about what the presence of greek on the balance sheet might do to the equity valuation. it's very reminiscent of what we saw in russia where people were really selling without any regard to the price. we have certainly seen that in the last little while going into the greek elections after the initial election on may 6. i think a lot of people wanted to show the shareholders that they knew what they were doing. you had a huge amount of selling and normal amounts of bonds.
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i think this is quite frankly oversold. we saw some russian bonds come up and actually some of those ended up being worth more than they are. there is not much risk on the downside. with a 12% coupon, up three, three and five eights over the next 11 to 12 years, this is something on the current yield basis that has the potential to really go up in value. >> what instrument would they use to put on this position? >> i'm not sure that this is the retail tech trade and going into the details of the structure of the exchange would probably be not very interesting for any of
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them. in restructuring it ended up being a series of 20 bonds. the first one is 23 and it runs out over the next six years. >> let me get in here. because basically you're saying that -- i want to bottom line this because we are running out of time. you said this is a no brainer and trade of the year. could it be one of the greatest trades or the defining trade for many hedge funds. . >> i think what you. >> you know, even at the 2% coupon. come up. you know, the short end of the
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2023 bonds are a particularly good value and they reacted with the extra results. >> we're going to leave it there. we appreciate it. interesting investment there. coming up next, is it time to bet on the banks? making the case for america's financials. setting the records straight on which ones are actually best in class. one of our traders is on a search for one of the best plays out there right now. that was a clue. much more straight ahead. >> want to beat the street? then you better tweet the street. twitter.com/fastfun. show recaps and realtime updates from the traders. when you tweet us back we put you on tv. follow the fast money. you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams
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>> huge pop >> huge pop in shares of oracle after it released earliers earlier than what many people expected. baiting the expectation. that's versus estimates of 10.9
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they are announcing a stock buy back program. giving us riz reaction to the company's earnings report. >> it is well. he is a good guy but he had a number of instant messages that surfaced during the oracle and hp trial that are very embarrassing. i think that relationship was
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largely behind his departure but the street was nervous that it might do something about how the may quarter went. one particularly in the u.s. my sense is it was probably not so much about this quarter but about other issues that he might have had. i think that is. >> the announcement. >> there has been some details
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that have come out during the trial. in these e-mails he is krilt sized for spending too much time in the u.s., implying that he should be traveling abroad more. al talking about software business and hardware business that comes along with the software, calling it a dog. >> all right. thank you so much. rick, you called it. you made that call. he is officially out according to the company at the end of the day. does that change the way you view it? >> well, i think it's a relief to see that it didn't have anything to do with the quarter. you couldn't be this di fintive on it. i think the stock traded down
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about 2%. it really wasn't about the quarter. there are three catalysts we think will help the stock. year-over-year comparisons. in the november quarter last year. we have the hardware business. the sun business is not doing well. i think this will be the trump quarter. and then they had a big expansion. probably 25%.
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look out a little later into the year. >> rick, i'm sorry. 10 and a half times current urnings. >> let me ask you this. it seems to be integrating the hardware ask software businesses better. is that what this is going forward? >> the mar gyps are with it because half of the business ch it is about a 93% gross margin business. a very nice business model or cash flow.
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where are they in the cloud? and they had some announcements recently. >> what does this mean for mark and his tenure and future going forward? seems like where this guy goes, continue vercy follows. exfortune 100 ceo. is there dissension in the level here? >> going to to look past one or two quarters here. had some issues about what was on top as much as you should be if you are running the organization. so they had a little better quarter. i think this quarter shows, you know, a little better results. the license revenue is up 7%
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with a 2% bigger currency impact. so i think as time goes by, the series hardware starts to outshine the sun business, that he will probably be perceived as doing a better job. he is trying to sell hardware. >> is there a halo effect on the other stocks? >> we don't have one warning. i think the reality is oracle did have a very big contract to close in the big quarter. i spoke with another big company yesterday. i don't think we're out of the
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woods yet but ploebl given expectations for very ap hencive to keep the departure due for a little bit of a rebound. >> we appreciate it. first take on oracle's unexpected. what's your take on oracle and is the story too specific to draw conclusions? >> i think you're beginning to see a little bit of a return in the overall technology space. i think he thought he was being encouraged by software makers going out and buying social networking spaces. sales force buddy, now microsoft and sap. take a look at jive software. >> simon baker? >> on oracle it's shorted.
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>> >> the euro stocks and banking index this is one that you flagged. >> in the meantime, simon baker has some time to contemplate that. one charge caught your eye and that is the crisis circle. walk us through this. >> this is david iron horn. he was explaining what is really going on in europe. this is a good example of.
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>> we woke up this morning and said you know what? nothing and you know what? the crisis deepens and it is a continue wall vicious circle. >> where do u.s. banks stand against their peers? are they better positioned for future gains? jeff, i'm not sure if you got a chance to hear about the your low crisis vicious cycle. but the u.s. bank seems to be wrapped up for at least the past year or so.
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>> when you look at banks and financials in general, the macro environment rae really does matter. it is going to be a problem for the big u.s. banks as well. wu i think if i becomes a problem it's less of a problem. you actually get some upside potential in u.s. banks because they are trading a lot like european counter walter parks. but they are looking much better on a capital front. they have taken the majority. we're estimating almost 90% of crisis losses have already been realized and we're starting to see the u.s. banks gain market share from some of their specific european competitors. there has been anecdotal
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conversation about that for a while but we are starting to see data now. >> so the bottom line here is that you are actually optimistic that something will happen. >> it woultd be nice if i could say that i had something that the rest of the world didn't have. but at the end of the day i keep hanging my hat on. they have the ability to handle the crisis over there. they are actually in better shape fiscally on a sovereign level than the u.s. is. i think they recognize the need to get things done over there. specifically at germany. benefits a lot from the euro if they were on the mark, exports would probably stop. i think they have the ability
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and will, too. it's a matter of getting it done. that's awfully tough to say. we're going to be looking back at, you know, citigroup in the 20s. a very good entry point. >> jeff, let me ask you what was the best in bleed? jp morgan? want to buy it here? >> you know, similarly, from an investment standpoint it would be great owning jrve jp morgan here. they are still not out of that position yet. i think the market is going have trouble getk too come foblable until they can come out and say the position is gone. i would be looking. i would be looking more at a
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citigroup. i would be looking more at goldman sachs. and kipd of jp morgan. it's going be volatile. >> thanks for your time. i'm glad you mentioned jp morgan. i'm glad that jeff mentioned the difference. >> i think a little bit of both. i think they can put them away for the next six to 12 months. already moving on here, microsoft special event, underway within the hour. busy working on the options desk tonight. mike, what is it? >> i think a cheap way to make a bullish bet would be to buy the september 31 call.
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spend about 85 cents for those. they don't have to grab a big sliver of that to add to the bottom line here. i think this is a cheap way to make a bullish bet where the options are not very expensive. >> coming up next, making a case why the your low will actually stay together. and he has got a trade to help you play.
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>> >> squlef, you buy into this talk? >> i am, in a technical perspective. i think a lot of traders were caught off guard today.
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technically nat gas was up to 320. >> i think you're right. to the leader of natural gas inspiration. we are seeing them getting crushed a little bit due to the price of oil. get into that frad that way. >> what are the implications of both for the euro zone and what are the top trades tied to the regime trang?
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always good to see you. >> that is so consensus in terms of thinking. you think that everything is foing to stay together including greece? >> i know that most of the people that we talk to think that the greeks are going to exit. i think the germans are devicing a plan to keep them together. what is most interesting about what is s going on is the relationship, this is a prediction by us is going to a better relationship than the one she had with the former preside president. the analytical and knit together a coalition to save greece. and the way to play this would be along the spanish debt.
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it was probably central banks selling and other near term speculative selling. but over the next three months, the plan shapes up. this is really stuff coming up by my partner there who is very tied into the german political situation. so that's a prediction that we are making. >> i am wondering if this is becoming a consensus trade. >> the way the constitution is written in terms of the amount of money that can backstop for the rest of europe. if you get the light bills in place, what they are talking
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about, i think those sorts of trades will work. i honestly don't know the answer to that. i do think these trades are still outside of the mainstream. i don't believe that's going to happen. i believe they are going to create a path. >> always nice to see you. would you go in and ever -- >> they are attempt iing ewant see it play out a little bit. i want to see the game play out a little bit. >> simon baker, you are the contraryian. are you buying the debt or shirking the debt? >> well, it scares the life out
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of me. i think the better odds, i went and checked on the odds of greece beating germmy is right now. >> a fot ball match. >> talk to that. >> he must have inside knowledge there. >> anyway. how low will the euro go? there are still plenty of room to the downside. take a listen. >> over time we think it's quite possible that we could see a move down that could take the euro down. >> we will have more on the
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currency trade. you want to trade but stay clear of the u.s. dollar. we have a fed meeting this week. you are taking a look at kiwi. >> that's right. i would like to be short, as you said. the euro simply because i think we have a spanish bond auction congresswomaning up and also the result of an external assessment for their bank. i am looking at kiwi because i think there is hope that the fed may continue operation. most people think the ecb is going to cut rates. those could actually boost commodity raisings. i like kiwi because i belief there has been sovereign interests. i'm going to wait for a little bit of a bounce. i have a target down at 155.90.
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i'm going to put a pretty tight stop around 167 op the trade. coming up next. we are seeing. have your backs. best ideas. stick around. [ male announcer ] this is corporate caterers, miami, florida.
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>> >> time now for fast money portfolio. here to explain how you can find income. and it's a pleasure to have you here. you're an asset allocator. the model is in high yields. how much longer does this trade go. >> it is the most popular trade out there. it's been a thing and when we
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look at the fundamentals of the company balance sheets of the companies that we own, when we look at the very low rate of defaults, when we look at the credit sectors in general, we still have a lot of conviction in the trade. >> how quickly can you, in the world that we live in, how quickly can you change the allocations? >> there are a lot of ways you can change an allocation. you can sell equity futures. you can reposition other parts of the portfolio to take volatility out. >> you started buying high yield back in 2008. where did you see defaults peak. and where are they forecasted going forward. >> we're really looking at the amount of leverage that we see.
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as kpaeps roll over their debt, they are issuing new debt but using that to buy back other outstanding bonds. >> it is just a clear screaming high conviction trade and we bought about 15% more at that point in time. and since then, we have been up or down 5 or 10% depending on what the equity markets are doing. >> i think at some point in time, those bopds are going to be really interesting. >> what do -- where are you? >> one quick point i would make.
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we see these widening spreads. they have been wide for a while. it basically means that the equity markets still think that we're kicking the can around here. that is not assigned for all clear and high risk assets. stay tuned. ♪ ♪ here we are, me and you ♪ on the road ♪ and we know that it goes on and on ♪
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>> it >> it is the moment you have been waiting for. time to reveal what is behind this curtain. simon baker? >> google. bouncing up. i like it a lot right here. i like those tunes in the back groupd.
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570 is the name we really like. john touched on it. coming out with a minitablet. it's the next hot thing. apple is not in that space right now. i think we have a long way to g go. >> quickly srks google the trade in this tablet war? >> i think it's a tough war. people got in front of the kindle fire trade with amazon. i am a seller of software advertising company producing a piece of it. looking for a better place to put your cash? here's one you may not have thought of -- fidelity.
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we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much, i appreciate it, i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money ? if your bank takes more money than a stranger,
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you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. >> >> a lot of earnings coming up. i like simple two to three month call purchases. >> google 7 inch tablet. >> going to sell the strength in oracle. >> dnkn. >> cog recovered its. >> some of those folks are so

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