is the white house not watching what's happening? plus, some are saying $3 gas prices by halloween. is this the october surprise? and mitt romney lays out his immigration plan. no sidestepping congress here. "the kudlow report" is moments away. >> all right, look. i think it's a garden variety correction. believe it or not if oil went up tomorrow this market would reverse. i know. that's nuts. moody's downgrades, nothing new there including the fact that morgan stanley didn't get knocked for three notches, just two. it's a big up rally and a correction. there is always a bull market somewhere. promise to find it for you on "mad money." i'm jim cramer. see you tomorrow. hey, joe. what do you got tonight? >> 100 degrees in new york. investors are worried that the economy is cooling down. i'm joe kernen here for larry kudlow. tonight i'm joined by mark simone, nationally syndicated

wabc radio host. i had hugh huet and lars larson. we'll get to you in a second. our top story, moody's downgraded 15 banks. the dow sliding 250 points because investors are seeing the summer stall in black and white. jobs just aren't being created. not here, not in europe or china. even just the whisper of a moody's downgrade of major world banks sent traders to the sell button. first in business worldwide, we say. also tonight mitt romney lays out his ideas of immigration reform. president romney would not sidestep congress to secure the borders. he calls it an economic necessity. first a 250-point sell-off in the market. late this afternoon moody's cut the ratings of 15 major international banks. seema and mary have the stories. mary? >> joe, moody's long anticipated

downgrades of 15 banks happened after the markets closed today. cutting the long term ratings on the banks citing exposure to the volatility and risk of outside losses inherent in the capital markets business. five u.s. banks, the long-term ratings were affected by the downgrades. the one that reacted most was morgan stanley. the long-term rating cut by two notches. there was anticipation it would be cut by three. so morgan stanley stock popped significantly in the after hours markets. the rest of the downgrades, b of a and one notch downgrade, to citi, two notches. downgrades of two notches each. all of those were expected. all of the stocks trading higher in the after hours session. seema, over to you. >> mary, what a day for the markets. taking a nosedive after weak manufacturing data from china, europe and the u.s. weighed on the major indices. a terrible day for u.s. stocks

with the s&p 500 dropping nearly 2.5%. money flowing out of equities and into treasury. the yield on the ten-year moving lower by at one point 4%. commodities also under pressure on the back of a stronger dollar and worries about a global slow down. gold is seen as a safe haif b also sold off. prices at that time lowest level since may and silver prices also falling by around 5%, the lowest level two and a half months. lastly down was oil stopping at 79 bucks a barrel. a huge move right there. that's what put pressure on energy stocks, higher supply of oil, sluggish demand. never good news for jewelers. this was the worst performing sector for today. energy down almost 4%. joe, back to you. >> seema, thank you. let's turn our market pros to weigh in. brian kelly, the cofounder of shelter harbor capital. don luskin from trend macro and

michael farr of farr miller & washington, author of "the arrogance cycle." don, i read your take on this initially. you're not nearly as worried about a possible recession as we had ed lazeer on earlier on "squawk box." he's much more concerned than he was three months ago. you make the point that it's hard to fall when you're already down this low. don't you remember 1980 and '82? you can have a recession after a recession. we're not guaranteed only the go up from here. >> i guess you're right, joe. you could say the double dip was one big long recession. the 2008-2009 recession, there is a reason they call it the great recession. it was a near depression. we have had almost no recovery from it. that's not to say we couldn't have a slow down or you couldn't have macro numbers weakening. we're seeing it now. we've got to give up on the old

words like recession and expansion and recovery and slow down because they don't mean what they have meant the rest of our career. you look at job numbers from month to month. everybody flipped out a couple of fridays ago when we had whatever it was, 75,000 instead of 150,000. are you telling me if we had 150,000 it would have been great? we have gotten so used to not great, forget about painful. what could happen now? >> a guy comes into office in january of 2009 at 7.8. the entire presidency is spent above 8%. we get to 8.1 and in the last report it's 8.2 and it may be back up. 8.1 is going to be the low? >> i'm not saying that. >> what if it is? >> i'm just saying let's say we go to 8.5. so we go from 8 to 8.5. do you want to bother to call that a recession? feel free. use words however you want. that's not what i think of as a recession. >> if you look at the shrinking

work force the number would be probably higher as a ratio. i think it is significant and not good for the president. we haven't seen incumbents have any sort of a good time getting re-elected if they are above that number. >> i never said it was insignificant. i said we have to give up on daddy's definition of business cycles. when you have been in an l-shaped recovery it's hard to go sharply down. that's all i'm saying. >> we should be doing much better. >> of course we should. that's my whole point. >> what about you, brian? you're not that scared either, are you? >> i'm certainly -- i can certainly create the case where we would have a double dip recession. the word "recession" was invented in 1937-38 when we had a recession of the depression. the signs are there. for now, as long as ben bernanke is in office, he spent his career studying how to print money. he'll print money and drive prices higher. could we get another 2% to 3%

lower? certainly. who am i to fight the fed? i'm just saying i'm not fighting the fed. >> john, you make a couple of points. oil prices, that's a big tax cut. i like your analysis about the fiscal cliff. at least it focuses on the obama administration on what it would mean if taxes were to go up. that's the last thing they need at this point. >> yeah. so we have a couple of nice automatic stabilizers here. you have the oil price low enough. people may buy an suv. who knew? certainly when obama has to reverse himself and admit that the economy is absolutely not fine, that pretty much takes the wind out of his sails for tax hikes. maybe a weaker economy is our best friend here. it will keep a lot of dumb mistakes from happening later this year. >> michael farr, you know the veep hasn't been picked yet. you've still got the hair. we see you with the capital building behind you. are you going? you don't have to answer.

>> there are certain things i'm not at liberty to talk about at this point. >> i understand. >> as hair goes, i also know your name is on the list. i don't think the viewers would be surprised to see blank blank kernen ticket. >> are you buying dividend stocks? are you out? where are you? >> i'm always in, joe. we have a rocky road ahead of us. yes, i buy dividend stocks now. i think if you look at the best way to navigate how to get through this turmoil, stuff that's paying a dividend, lots of solid balance sheet. strong cash flow, not much debt. this is a time where we have to figure out how you survive markets like this. it's really enticing to get pulled in, sucked into the risk trade, right? the fed shows up and you have the high beta stocks taking off. it's not what fred and e they will ought to be doing. i'm responsible for fred and e they will money. i make more conservative decisions. >> you see stocks go up with bad news t. bank stocks are up after

hours. is it going up on bad news or are they just going up because everyone knew it would happen and they're still not going anywhere? >> it was good news. the markets priced in the worst case scenario, particularly for morgan stanley. priced in a three-notch downgrade. they didn't get it. that's the only surprise. i don't think it's breaking news that moody's downgraded. i have another one for you. lincoln was shot. this is not anything new whatsoever. this is how stocks and markets react. it's difficult to invest because it is not logical. >> one more not good thing. one more negative piece of information that has people concerned about the banks again. >> since january. >> one thing you didn't know about lincoln was he was apparently a vampire hunter. >> i'm finding that out myself. >> give it another 12 years. maybe moody's will downgrade lincoln. this is a joke. >> excellent.

>> thank you, gentlemen. my next guest predicts $3 gas at the pump before halloween. here's the spooky question. will $3 gas re-elect the president? and can congress find common ground before america falls off the fiscal cliff? former clinton council lanny davis and michael steele are waiting in the wings, holding hands. i saw it. free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. "the kudlow report" is coming right back. ♪ [ male announcer ] aggressive styling. a more fuel-efficient turbocharged engine. and a completely redesigned interior. ♪

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welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm joe kernen filling in as larry recuperates from surgery. he's doing fine. apparently in the operating room

as he was getting anesthesia he looked at the doctors and said, i hope you're republicans. somebody else said that. >> and he got through it without obamacare. >> crude oil -- mark simone is here. crude oil is down from the 52-week high hit in february of this year. my next guest sees $3 gasoline before halloween at fump. here's a spooky question. doesn't scare me. $3 gasoline. but could it re-elect the president? let's turn to an oil executive with skin in the game. i guess i can think about ten different things that we are going to be looking at that can factor into who gets re-elected. it's possible if gas comes down while it was headed up we were making the point that it could affect the election negatively for the president. do you think it could be a positive? >> not necessarily a positive. the lower gas prices is a reflection of the slowing economies around the world and i

think that's really the bad news. there is good news for the consumer. but the big picture is they are looking for an increase in jobs. >> so you don't think it's -- lower gas prices would be a reflection of the aggressive hydro carbon discovery policy of the obama administration for the past three and a half years. >> the aggressive policy is by the big major oil companies and the independents in north dakota and texas off the federal lands and on state and private lands where we are seeing huge increases. >> the president gets credit though. he's sitting in that chair. he's going to get credit for it, right? pretty good couple of years, especially for fracking and natural gas. maybe in spite of not because of. >> he gets crate crystal meth in the good times, blame in the bad times. in the u.s. it's up 14% compared to this time last year. that's a good thing. >> i always notice the same game

every year. gas is $2.50 so they go up to $4. once they come back to $3 we're grateful it's at $3. isn't that the same game? >> this year we had a number of events. what we called the preseason rally out of the winter going into summer. we had the prospects of a number of refineries, especially in the east coast shutting down. that looks like it's changing. we also have lower demand, full, in europe that's providing more barrels of gasoline to show up into the u.s. a lot of things changed to cause the u.s. to go up. then we have iran taking a back seat. sanctions are upon us. it's factored in the market. >> andy, you didn't mention any of the quantity today ty easing. do you think it's a coincidence that they don't announce qe-3 and oil starts dropping $5 at a

whack? don't you think if they announced qe-3 people would be thinking about the weaker dollar and more expensive oil? looks like it's totally related. >> it has been. no doubt that the stronger dollar has contributed to the lower oil prices and had the markets seen weaker dollar ahead, we'd see a stop in the slide. >> all right. andy, thanks. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> up next, where's the leadership? america is at the edge of a fiscal cliff. nobody is budging in washington. former clinton council lanny davis and michael steele are ready to change the game. >> let's hope.

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it's go time. across america, we're all committed to team usa. welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm larry kernen here with nationally syndicated wabc radio host mark simone. our next guests are two fr two sides of the political aisle with a vision of a purple nation utopia. red and blue, get it? free from bipartisan posturing? can common ground be found before we fall off the fiscal cliff? lanny davis former special counsel to president clinton and michael steele, former rnc chairman. i started on you immediately. i said i miss the days when we had the great republican president. you said, i didn't work for bush. i said, i'm talking about

clinton. that great republican clinton. >> he was. >> we have a rhino and a dino, don't we? >> you have a conservative and a liberal. >> let's start with i favor obama care. michael? >> you found one thing. >> i favor increasing taxes. i favor -- >> what do you mean? that's not in bowles simpson. >> bowles simpson does -- >> gets rid of loopholes. >> speaker boehner, one dollar -- >> by the time i'm done with you guys this will fall apart. i read what you said about we've got to stop the political posturing. he brings up issa. that's the best metaphor -- with the way the president has been electioneering, not governing for the past year and a half. we lost an atf agent. things happened. that's your best example of posturing? that's what we have? >> couldn't be any better that we lost an agent.

you blame it on the attorney general who knew nothing about this -- >> we don't know that because we don't have the documents. >> when george bush didn't produce documents when the attorney general fired u.s. attorneys and the democrats talks about there is no executive privilege were any republicans upset about that? >> we're trying to get around. that's what you threw down on an issue. i can find other -- >> yes, sir? >> when you look back on the way you were treated by certain parts of the left, i think you would say right now probably grover norquist and the tea party republicans are all that's wrong with the country. >> actually, i like grover norquist. >> all right. i look at the tactics of axelrod and we're in trouble. this purple thing will never work. i don't think it is the tea party's fault or the obama striations's fault but it's not getting better. >> i take your point to better.

>> they pilloried you. >> i got it from my friends on the right, too, who weren't feeling the love for the brother who was running things. that's what brought me to this point. i grew up in washington, d.c. this has been part of my life since i was young. now i can look and feel the anxiety of the country. i feel it myself raising my own kids and trying to run my businesses and manage my affairs. the leadership in this country isn't doing that. did you say, take simpson bowles? it was his commission. who dropped the ball on it? >> i agree that barack obama was handed an opportunity with dick durbin. on the right you had coburn and senator crapo from idaho supporting an across the board approach. barack obama didn't endorse it and should have.

michael and i have our philosophical disagreements. we think there is common ground when reagan and tip o'neal embraced -- >> that's what we are talking about. >> tip and reagan -- reagan was a great executive. he could go into a room and negotiate something. clinton was. for the first time ever we have a guy in the white house for the first time in a long time with no executive experience. he can't go in a room, sit down and hammer out an agreement. >> are you nodding? >> i absolutely agree. but knowing that we have gotten close and backed off. in the sense that when you had boehner in a position to bring the president to a point where we can get a deal done the political pressures in washington forced him away from the table.

>> suppose he came back and asked -- >> the fact is -- >> did lanny tell you that? >> i watched it with my own eyes. >> after talking with an unhappy caucus he didn't try to juice up $400 billion? >> here's the drill. both of us see hypocrisy on both sides. we think clients come to washington who want solutions. >> the solution to save you work. maybe put a real executive in there who can negotiate.

>> we had respect for the private sector and capitalism. do you think barack obama does? >> i think he does if you look at the health care bill. it's all private. >> you have the worst metaphor. >> guys, deny this fact. >> you come up with the worst things. >> you laughed when i said it. is there a single public option? is it all private insurance? >> he would have -- >> yes or no. new york city no, no. yes or no. >> i noticed romneycare was 70 pages and obamacare is 2700. you can't even read it. >> you guys are great together. >> it's an all private system. >> this doesn't work. >> you couldn't say yes. >> i like the 70 page. >> stop! maybe something on a cable network if this doesn't work out. thanks. up next, immigration show down.

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welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm joe kernen in for larry kudlow. nationally syndicated wabc radio talk show host mark simone is here with me for the hour. in this half hour, we thought the supreme court would have handed down the obama care decision today. when it does, is it doomsday if the high court upholds it? if the court strikes it down is the gop prepared to put forward a plan of its own? senator john verasa joins us. he's also an m.d. and there was a decision breaking the kneecaps of unions. we'll have the details. and moody's downgrades 15 banks and the dow slides 250 points because investors are seeing the summer stall now in black and white. first let the immigration show down begin.

governor romney walked a fine line on immigration today in a speech before national latino leaders saying latinos have fared poorly economically under president obama. cnbc's chief washington correspondent john harwood is here with the details. that doesn't make them unique. >> no. >> as americans faring poorly economically under this president. >> that's mitt romney's appeal to americans across the board. this was his attempt in that speech in orlando to counter president obama's bold move on immigration last week when he announced the federal government was going to stop deporting some young illegal immigrants brought here as children graduated high school and served in the military. here's the backdrop for that speech by mitt romney. the hispanic vote, 9% of the electorate and growing quickly. barack obama won it by two to one over john mccain in 2008. romney offered this immigration plan today. he said he wanted to increase

and provide permanent residency for people with advanced degrees. he wanted to cut red tape for temporary workers and the families of illegal immigrants here -- legal immigrants here already in addition to building the border fence he talked about. he also indicated pursuit of his plan would be a more stable solution than the short-term measure president obama implemented last week. >> for two years this president had huge majorities in the house and senate. he was free to pursue any policy he pleased. but he did nothing to advance a permanent fix for our broken immigration system. nothing. instead he failed to act until facing a tough re-election and trying to secure your vote. some people asked if i will let stand the executive order. i will put in place my own long term solution that will replace and supercede the president's temporary measure. >> tomorrow is president obama's

chance to address the same group. expect him to press his advantage. polls show what mr. romney calls a temporary measure is possible. >> it is short term. thank you to john harwood. while the economy is in the pits the unemployment rate is nowhere near coming down. the market is down sharply. why is immigration reform part of the race? henry cisneros under secretary clinton. welcome. mr. secretary, would you at least concede that when you do something short term like this it opens up the criticism that it was electioneering? and we need to do this long term. >> we do. everything the president does will be called electioneering

this year. it is short run, but it is important. uh live in a part of the country where we have tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of young people who came here as children who have only known america. i'm dealing with a young man with 4.0 in engineering and he lives in the shadows. it is one piece of the spectrum. there is a lot more that needs to be done in addition to workers with higher skills and the border and the rest of it. but i wouldn't denigrate what it means to human lives what the president did last week. it touches lives in meaningful ways. >> t.j., it's been a while. good to see you. i'm trying to figure out if you're really going to be on the opposing end of this. did you hear mr. secretary say anything you disagree with

really? >> not really. i'm looking for a good fight and we'll have a love in. i'm pro immigration. i always have been. i think immigrants built america. i look at silicon valley, the most successful part of the american economy. i see my company being a third immigrants and two-thirds minorities. i cecil con valley having built that way. to me, these people are the people like the italians and the irish before them that came in and built this country. we ought to quit screwing around with them. obama's move is political. so what? i'll take what i can get. >> silicon valley is clearly important to our country. there is a spectrum of the immigration scene that is needed by silicon valley. we have immigrants from pakistan, india, well educated chinese filling the engineering jobs but there are other industries including agricultural production, construction that require a different spectrum of the work

force. i think there is ample room to do serious constructive immigration reform across the board. unfortunately it won't get done this year, in this climate. immigration reform needs to occur. >> let me start the fight here. we are all for immigrants. that doesn't mean we are for illegal immigration though. the real question is if this is so important why a temporary gimmick like the president has tried? it's like he's a night watchman saying i will leave the door ajar? >> the answer is simple. the congress won't act. they have been impossible to get action on this. there is a bipartisan stalemate on this. the president did what he could within his power. >> it's just a temporary -- >> one of the federal agencies to not deport this particular group. it was the right thing to do. >> it is, but he doesn't have a plan. it should be followed up with real legislation, at least put it on the table. he hasn't done that. >> i disagree. he has put forward a plan. mitt romney today offered a

plan. democrats and republicans -- >> by the way, i'd like to make a comment. i don't just run a chip company with high tech people working for me. i had three vine yards. without immigrants we wouldn't have workers for the vine yards and we have experienced times in california where the crops rotted in the field. this whole idea that somehow people are coming across and taking crop harvesting job that is the americans have been lining up for and somehow that's making unemployment higher, i just don't buy it. these people who come to the united states and earn money create jobs, buy things and create other jobs upstream to support them, i'm not a fan of illegal immigration. but the whole concept that somehow people are dragging the economy is wrong. people are the economy. the intelligence and wealth they create is what creates the jobs. >> we need workers. >> they create additional economy. you know, the traditional three-part mantra for

immigration reform is essentially a bipartisan strategy. president bush endorsed it. senator kennedy endorsed it. mitt romney hit on the elements of it today. the president has as well. what are they? border security. safe guard the border. a country has a right and ought to do that. secondly, let's deal with legalization for the workers who are here now because we need them as workers. and third, let's create some kind of earned path to citizenship eventually because we don't want a second class of people who can never become citizens. >> the mill tarzation of the border is awful. to me, what makes the country look weak? what made the soviet union look weak? mr. gorbachev tear down this wall. when a country has to put a wall between itself and its neighbors that puts weakness on the other side of the fence. who like the militarization of the border. >> we would be the only country

that doesn't protect our borders. what would be -- >> i didn't say not protect the borders. i said the militarization of the border, high tech gadgets, giant walls makes you look weak. i didn't say don't have checkpoints. this militarization is politicians one up each other for who can be tougher. mexican agricultural immigrants to me is nothing i want to have anything to do with. it embarrasses me about the republicans. >> i would say whoever is elected president we're going to have immigration reform in the first year or two of the next administration. it's required. >> if one of your criticisms is that governor romney is fearful of the -- i don't think we'll have time to answer this. fearful of the far right anti-immigration -- he didn't seem afraid today. he seemed up front. >> there is the anti-immigrant wing that's played the wedge politics and used it against

immigran immigrants, latinos and others. the country has had enough. we realize we need the workers even in alabama that's imposed strict state laws. the agricultural sector is saying, give us a break. we need the workers. >> thanks to you both. appreciate your time this evening. still ahead on "the kudlow report." the supreme court didn't rule on obamacare today. it's coming down the pike. probably monday. there is already a doomsday scenario if the court upholds obamacare. senator john barasso joins us next. the supreme court does wisen up on one case and lands a blow against kwer sieve labor unions. is that redundant? headlines after the break. recently, students from 31 countries took part in a science test.

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today the supreme court told organized labor to ask your members first. seem i can't is back with us. hello again. >> hello, joe. it was only $6 and change per person, but by a 7-2 vote the supreme court ruled unions must win approval in advance before members before they collect

extra dues for political campaigns. two more companies showing signs of economic slow down, ryder revised the forecast downward on reduced commercial demand while abercrombie and fitch will close 18 oh stores, mostly in the united states. it was so hot today -- >> how hot was it! >> more importantly how hot was it tomorrow. let's ask mike seidel at the weather channel. >> hey, seema. right here in central park. this is sheet metal on a typical summer evening would be packed. not this evening. we are around 90 following the high of 94. records were set today at 97. boston tied at 95 for joe kernen and d.c., 98 tying. things are coming to an end. two days of heat. tomorrow will be in the low 90s in the northeast. a cool front coming. we could have rambunctious thunderstorms for rush hour

tomorrow: severe weather and wind damage. then temperatures in the 80s. next week, beautiful weather with highs in the 70s. below average. but another tough night tonight seema with lows around 80. >> thanks, mike. joe, tomorrow obviously a big day for summer for all the heat. you've got options. go to the beach, stay home, put the a/c on. >> too hot for the beach. >> we are all dressed up with nowhere to 0'xgo. i asked if anyone had a joke for how hot was it. we were ready to go. >> i appreciate the enthusiasm. >> on twitter, if anyone has anything by the end of the show. >> that's a good topic. >> good one. >> thanks, seema mody. i won't say it. not all eyes. we have a lot of things to watch. but there is a lot happening at the supreme court. will there be a doomsday scenario for stocks and the economy if they don't overturn obama care?

dr. and senator john barasso, senator of wyoming joins us. high schools in six states enrolled in the national math and science initiative... ...which helped students and teachers get better results in ap courses. together, they raised ap test scores 138%. just imagine our potential... ...if the other states joined them. let's raise our scores. let's invest in our teachers and inspire our students. let's solve this.

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obamacare is making it less likely to hire people. if jobs are the priority you have to put in place real reform that works. replacing obamacare gives businesses the certainty they need to expand and hire and grow. >> that was mitt romney today in orlando on the attack.

with the supreme court set to announce its historic decision on obamacare any day now his message to voters, obamacare hurts business and the economy. the supreme court has just one week left to announce its decision. so tonight we ask if the court strikes it down is the gop prepared to put forward a plan of its own? here now is senator, dr. john barasso, republican from wyoming. senator, doctor, that's complicated. that's the criticism that the republicans talk about replacing. really they don't have intentions to. you have four simple things that would do it and probably wouldn't take 2700 pages. >> that's absolutely right. the whole purpose of the health care law was initially designed by the president, so he said, to lower the cost of care. people around the country have seen their insurance premiums go up. the president said his plan would lower it by $2500 per family per year.

instead it's gone up over $2,000 per family since he's been president. what we need to do is focus on the cost of care, have patient-centered care. i think people ought to be able to buy insurance across state lines. we need to deal with the junk lawsuits you and i know are out there and drive up the costs with all of the defensive medicine that's being practiced. i think we need to give individual incentives for people who take their own responsibility issues personally and that keep down their own costs of care. so there are many things we can do. but we need to do it in a step by step fashion. we don't need a 2700-page bill. james madison, the father of the constitution said we should pass no laws so voluminous they cannot be read and so incoherent they cannot be understood. that's what we have with the health care law. >> a famous speaker once said we need to pass this and implement it so we can find out what's in

it though. do you remember that? >> nancy pelosi said first you have to pass it before you find out what's in it. as you know, the more people find out about the health care law the less they like it. it's very unpopular. right now 72% of americans want the supreme court to rule it unconstitutional because people don't believe that the government should be able to go into your home and mandate that you buy a government-approved product. that's one of the reasons this health care law is so very unpopular. >> senator, we're always curing the symptom, not the disease. the problem is health care costs are out of control. you go into a hospital and an aspirin is $20. are we going to do something about the costs rather than pass them along to someone else? >> you absolutely hit the key point of this whole thing, mark. the goal of health care reform, the president told us initially was to actually lower the kpost of care. instead he focused on what he

called coverage which i know as a doctor isn't equal to care. he wants to put $17 million more people on medicaid, a program that we now know about half the doctors in the country don't take care of medicaid patients. it's like giving somebody monopoly money to give them a medicaid card say, try to use that. what good is that? we need to focus on lowering the cost of care for americans. the way to do it is things i have outlined and focused on. you need to do it in a step by step way. government doesn't do big things well. in a 2700-page bill that to me is unworkable, unpopular and truly for the nation is unaffordable. >> stay by the phone next week. we may be talking to you again. >> i look forward to it. thanks. >> many thanks to senator john barrasso. thank you. how hot was it? this will relate. they're going to install a fan

in the debt ceiling. >> that's good. >> if the supreme court strikes down obama care there is an expectation it could fuel a hiring boom and send stocks soaring. what if the supremes uphold it? will democrats dance in the streets as the economy heads down in the gutter? oh, boy. it's so inflammatory, david. i didn't write it. i just read it. here is david goodfriend, sirius xm left jab co-host and former clinton white house oishl official. you don't think that would help business or business sentiment if the supremes were to overturn all or part of it. >> when you take apart what's at stake here the result of a supreme court decision is probably overstated to the american business community. here's why. if the supreme court were to overturn the individual mandate as opposed to overturning the entire statute which if there is going to be overturning, that's

the most likely outcome. that individual mandate won't go into effect until 2014. you're not going to have an immediate impact that way. meanwhile most of the law that the senator barrasso alluded to, most of it stays in place. business has had a chance to anticipate the effects of -- >> you know, david -- >> -- the ability of people to carry their own insurance which is decreasing costs. >> sounds like you're agreeing with me. i'm glad to hear it. agreeing with the premise. you say, no it's not happening until 2014 so the market wouldn't go up right away though it should. that sounds like it. >> don't forget, most fortune 500 companies and small employers, now we have had a period of years to bake into the valuations exactly what's going to happen. if your premise is that it's all bad for business then ask yourself what percentage of the law will be impacted by the

supreme court decision if it is over turned. >> if the stock market soars on it being overturned wouldn't you agree it was a bad thing for business, one of the things that held them back from hiring? >> the business community in the united states is more intel jept than you give them credit for. >> then they're stupd when they -- >> huge reaction. one way or the other it's wrong. >> i showed charts yesterday that showed unemployment rates coming down. i can show you when obama care passed and it all came to a grinding halt. that could be a coincidence. it doesn't mean cause and effect. but i can show ceo after ceo that comes on the show in the morning and says we are not ready to take on a million dollar liability by hiring a new employee because we don't know what it will cost. are they lying? are they stupid? are they not doing what they say

they are doing? they all say that. are they wrong? >> i represent fortune 200 companies. i talk to ceos, too. here's what i hear. the most depressing effect on business today is uncertainty. there is uncertainty over the health care reform law because of the supreme court challenge. >> oh, wait a minute. >> after the supreme court channel. >> that's only a recent development. >> you're saying -- >> now as for the job growth i remember three, four, five months ago 200,000 jobs a month added. you can't tell me that was a mistake. not really related. >> that doesn't break us even. in a normal recovery we should get 300,000 jobs youing at 4%, not hoping for 2. >> of course. if we had a healthy banking system back the way it was in

1999, 2000 we would be there. i think the trends all point in the same direction. we're talking about health care here. >> the other question is barack obama -- >> predictability -- >> we have to run. david, do you know jared bernstein? you're good. you are a professional arguer. >> thank you for coming on. i want to thank radio talk show host mark zie mone. that's it for tonight. thanks for watching. laces? really? slip-on's the way to go. more people do that, security would be like -- there's no charge for the bag. thanks. i know a quiet little place where we can get some work done. there's a three-prong plug. i have club passes. [ male announcer ] get the mileage card with special perks on united, like a free checked bag, united club passes, and priority boarding. thanks. ♪

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