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ben bernanke told congress the fed is not going to single out the fiscal cliff. the fed head gave no clear hint of more stimulus. investors continue to hope that the fed will add more stimulus later this month. that drove up shares. the dow closed up 78 points. my feds easing indicator, you ever ho, which is gold. it dropped 10 pucks. it tells me, boys and girls, don't get so excited about stimulus. obama and mitt romney campaigning in battle ground states. tons of money being spent on tv campaign ads flooding the market. president obama insulting business. mitt romney fires back.

>> i'm convinced he wants americans to be ashamed of success. >> this comes as john sinunu makes headlines for this call, quote, i wish this president would learn how to be an american. my special guest this evening to expand on his remarks. but first up, let's turn to bernanke's testimony on capitol hill. take a listen to this. >> we've got what i call in spite of recovery. this is a recovery in spite of what obama has done. >> but only a part of this loss of momentum in job creation. these forecasts are lower than the ones we made in january, the reduction in the unemployment rate seems likely to be frustratingly slow. indeed, the forecast now has the

unemployment rate at 7% or higher at the end of the 2014. >> wow. 7% or higher at the end of 2014. this, of course, being the middle of 2012. now, here's just one chart from the data point today. you can see how this thing has come way down. this has slowed. it's not as bad as it was with retail sales last night. we show youd three straight declines and it's not as bad as some of the other indexes, but production is slowing down. manufacturing is slowing down. not a good sign. now on inflation, this is very interesting. we are actually witnessing some moderate, mild deflation, which bernanke referred to. let me show you the consumer price index. it was flat the last three months. it's gone from 4%, 5% all the way to negative territory. that is a strong dollar. that is declining energy prices. by the way, the producer price index and the import price

index, all deflating. that is negative. they're falling. so your major price indices are showing some signs of deflation. now, bernanke sees another recession threat besides all this. take a listen. >> in the fiscal cliff is allowed to happen, as is now programmed in the law, it would probably knock the recovery back into a recession and costgreatl the recovery we're hoping to facilitate. >> i love this stuff. the fiscal cliff warning is so great. he probably doesn't want to cut spending as much as i do, but he certainly doesn't want to have a big tax hike. he put a gun to congress' head and basically said, you've got to stop tax hikes that are going to lead to a reception because my similar lus is not going to happen. so my personal take, that is kudlow, qe-3, very, very

doubtful. i know you traders out there and short-term investors are praying, gu i got to tell you, bernanke is pushing congress to do something about the tax hike business that could wreck the economy. that's exactly what he ought to do. let's turn to our panel and get their take. they may agree or disagree. lawrence meyer returns, former federal reserve governor. and the former cleveland federal reserve president. all right, larry, let me go to you. i think bernanke was tough as nail today. i kind of enjoyed his whole schtick. he didn't give up anything on stimulus and he's saying yeah, you want to risk a recession, an election year recession, go right ahead, i can't bail you out. do you think that was his message? >> larry, i've got to love you.

look, the president didn't say don't raise taxes because that's going to cause a recession. he said don't cut spending as aggressively as congress is thinking about. let's not get the sequestration. you have a political slant there. now, what you said about the chairman's testimony. that's absolute lit fair. more down beat on the economy. not enough to suggest significant action at the upcoming meeting, no q.e., but, you know, the risks are rising relative to the outlook. and increasing possibility of qe by september. >> yeah, the economy basically stinks. look, i don't mean to be political on this point because actually, the tax increases, i'm not -- either marginal tax

rates, the tax hikes are much bigger than the spending cuts. i'm more concerned about tax hikes. he said i'm not going to bail you out. you want big tax hikes? okay, fine. i'm not going to give you q.e. to stop that. you're on your own. it's an election year and i'm putting the heat on you. >> i thought it was pretty strong today in nold fot foldin wanting the senators to do more right now, even though the fed doing more, whether it's qe-3 or more twists won't produce any jobs in the economy. it habit to date. and i don't see why it would in the future.

but i think he was right to be tough in terms of his answers and i believe with lawrence. down the road, it won't happen, this meeting but if the numbers keep coming in and the fed does get pushed around a lot by current numbers, i think they ought to focus on a year out forecasts and not what happened yesterday. yesterday is only important if it affects where you think economy or inflation is going to be a year out. >> all right, let's look at this. if the numbers come rolling in badly again, the next set of numbers, jobs, retail sales, manufacturing production, the whole nine yards. we're going to get some housing numbers later this week. if the numbers keep rolling in badly, do you expect the fed to cave in and throw some quantitative easing? another $500 billion, let's say. that would put about $2 trillion of excess reserves that are not

being used. see, i think bernanke has come to the end of that line. what's your take, bill ford? >> i'm with you, larry. he actually cited the congressional budget office forecast of what would happen with the fiscal cliff. you look at a 1% to 2%, they have a meeting at the end of this month, another one in september. i would be surprised to see them do qe-3 because it hasn't done much. as you said, they have $1.5 trillion of excess reserves that aren't being loaned out. the potential for future inflation is dangerous with all that high powered money sitting there waiting to be converted to loans.

i think he played it reasonably well, but i have to agree with lee, there's much too much attention focused on week to week number changes. we all know monetary policy takes six to nine months to have an effect on what you're changing. >> i'm going to take a different view tonight than my different view. i've been edge into this the last three or four months. i think ewe're seeing some moderatecharts on the cpi and p last night, import prices. the u.s. dollar is very strong and some of these other economic indicators are weak, i think there's deflation in the air. what do you think? >> i've got a few things to say about what you said about the fed seeping in. you tell me if the unemployment rate is rising, the fed would be caving in to more qe. i disagree and a lot of evidence

suggests that qe has been successful as the chairman said and there's a lot of, as some research suggests. now, with respect to inflation, no, i'm absolutely surprised that the chairman even mentioned deflation risks now. inflation next year is relati relatively 2%. your story is about deflation is about energy prices. energy prices respect going to keep going down. they're not going to be $60 next year. so no, there's no deflation and no big inflation risk either. >> so let's move this story. you have a fed meeting, what, july 31, if you have that right and a fed meeting september 12. what happens? september 12, it's in front of the election. will the fed take any extra moves? two more meetings, july 31 and september 12 before the

elections. my best guest is they don't do anything in the upcoming meeting at the end of july. again, it's hard to predict because they get pushed around by short-term data. if the data continues to look weak, then they will try i think in front of the election, as you said correctly, i don't think the fed is political about this. if they think they will affect the economy, they will do it, even though i think it's wrong headed. >> i think the fed should stop paying banks for their excess reserve. stop the 25 basis point subsidy. just say no interest rate and maybe the banks will take that $1.5 trillion and push it out into the economy. the ecb did it in europe. i think the fed should do it. stop paying interest on the excess reserves of which there are about $1.5 trillion.

>> that's exactly right. there's no reason for them to be paying the banks for them to keep their money in the bank instead of ending them out. if they can get the bank regulators off their backs. coming up, the markets boo eed bernanke in the morning then put the pop back in the stocks. i don't know what the hell you do with the stock market right now. i want to hear what they have to say. later on, mitt romney, ready to rumble. now he's pointing out the president wants americans to be ashamed of success. my special guest john sinunu

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stocks staged a prayerful comeback. they're hoping beyond hope the bernanke put will stimulate shares higher. that slipping more than 80 points, the dow ended up 78 points. let's talk about this. i want to hear what you have to say. the km i stinks. you're looking at 1%. the federal reserve is not running to stimulate. that's just prayer and medication. you don't know about profits and tax hikes. i don't know what you do.

how do you make a stock market bet? >> with eeve been holding 20% in crash. but there are some stunts in the stock market, each in this kind of environment. one thing you mentioned was deflation. we have run in a tremendous amount of production over the last several years. you want to look at sectors that can make it up on volume rather than pricing. a lot of overeis as profits and that looks pretty good to us. 9% or 10% is pretty good. that's a high number. i just have to say i see hints of deflation and recession almost everywhere i look.

since the political outlook is cloudy, i just don't know where to go. 9% or 10% earnings, maybe that's more bullish? >> well, i would agree with that. you have to consider your alternative, too. you can sit on the cash in the mattress and get 10, get a 10-year treasury or stocks and get 2.5%. in my jerusalem, the risk reward says i will even some of these stocks. >> i think we're getting decent news out of the technology sector. in the health care sector, i think you see similar results.

>> didn't they say the future looks pretty cloudy? haven't we seen a lot of that. you sure about this? >> i think what you're looking at is a weakish economy. you can't hide from that. but the facts are, if we were paying 15, 16 times earnings and you have normal interest rates, you would have a problem. i would rather hold a stock and get a higher yield than a bond, believing the smi is going to grow over the next three to five years and hold my nose during this interim period. you think earnings are going to outperform? i heard you say the% to 10%.

if we do get qe-3, you could probably count on a weaker dollar. you can see a boost from and make a big difference. >> the dollar is rising, not falling, but we will see. up next on "kudlow" again, breaking news come into cnbc. the fda has just approved a new weight loss drug. details right after the break. this is the first car that i've been totally in love with

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date. a lot of expectation that this would happen. it's a reality. lowering guidance, some analysts expected worse. as for the once mighty yahoo, it did not have marissa myers on the call. pilots for united continental vote to authorize a strike. they have waited two years for a new contract. the aerospace industry association releases a report that cuts would cause massive job loss. and dick cheney said if these

across the board cuts are implemented, it could compromise national security. >> well, i'm sure there's something to that. he knows a lot more to it than i do. the defense department will and must share in the downsizing of the federal government. cnbc's brian schachtman, thank you. the president wants americans to be ashamed of success? we're going to ask my special guest, former new hampshire governor john sinunu.

welcome back 37 in this half-hour, former new york fed head tim good nighter whom i will interview tomorrow and the rest of the federal reserve system knew the libor rate was being manipulated, but why didn't they make a big stink about it?

bhie didn't they tell the whole world until just recently? i'm also going to ask pat toomey who weighs in on the fiscal cliff drama as well and the need for tax reform instead of recessionaire tax hikes. the romney campaign really took the gloves off today. in a campaign call, the surrogate, john sinunu who will be on this broadcast in just a moment lashed out at president obama for this recent message to successful business owners. take a listen. >> if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. if you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. if you've got a business, you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen. >> all right, on the other hand, mitt romney today kind of exploded. he gave his best rebuttal to all of this. take a listen to this.

>> to say that steve jobs didn't build apple, that henry ford didn't build ford motor. that papa john didn't build papa john pizza, to say something like that is not just foolishness, it's insulting to every entrepreneur and every innovator in america. and it's wrong. >> all right, fine. a little fire in the belly. joining us now bob kocosta of t "international review." the speeches today were lyely and tough and strong. probably the best thing we've heard from romney in quite some time. what did you take away when you interviewed h him? >> he was tough and forceful, he's sick of playing games with the left about his wealth and tax returns. he wants to turn the tables and he said he's not going to cave in on his tax returns. i'm talking about foreign investments. he wants to focus on the economy and regardless of what the left wants to talk about, that's going to be his message.

>> what about the tax return? texas governor rick perry said release your taxes, chris christie has said release your taxes. he's going to release this year's taxes. right? they want him to release more taxes. why? why should he? >> romney's argument today in our interview was that he's not going to give the left 100 pages, 1,000 pages as he told me to go sift through, 20 to disse the rest of the summer and make that campaign. romney does not want his wealth to be an issue. i spoke to haley barbour, he said he has to get this stuff out there or it's going to be a distraction. but romney's whole campaign is digging in because they do not want to play the chicago-style game when it comes to wealth. they're going to put it right back to romney and play hardball. >> hang on, stay with us. joining us now is our special guest top romney surrogate, former new hampshire governor john sinunu. the governor, as always, welcome back to the "kudlow report." let me read what you told

reporters on a conference call this morning. and isle quote, the president clearly demonstrated that he has absolutely no idea how the american economy functions. the men and women all over america who have worked hard to build these businesses, their businesses form from the ground up is how our economy became the envy of the world. it is the american way. here's the punch line. i wish this american would learn how to be an american. what do you mean by that? >> well, i probably was too harsh there. that's not the best choice of words. sometimes you say something you wish you can pull it back. but the message was clear. this. the doesn't understand the american free enterprise system. he doesn't understand the sacrifices men and women make when they start a business and they deserve credit for their success. this is a president that's been trying to demonize success. can you imagine anybody trying to demonize the successful result of the american dream?

if they succeed oar get rich, he thinks they've done something evil. >> you this chicago-style tactics. you blasted the president as coming from a felon environment 234 chicago and so forth. what do you mean by that? >> well, the president introduced felon into the discourse. i thought that was another one of the dumb things to come out of his mouth and his campaign's mouth. can you imagine coming out of chicago politics where politician and felon are synonymous? you've got two governors in prison today snf this is a guy who was raised in chicago where the way of doing business is to take care of your friends. and that's what he's been doing. he gives a federal taxpayer grant to people like sylindra.

>> you know, i liked romney when he was out there earlier, really defending his business success, telling people that he was proud of what he had done at bain capital and he was proud at what he had done to turn around these companies. and i kind of hated it when he seems to go into a defensive crouch. which he has been doing, maybe until today. >> now he's going to come out swinging? >> i don't think it's a change in attitude. i think it's just a recognition that there are ebbs and flows to a campaign. you're in the middle of july. folks at home go home at night and turn on the tv set, and i grant you, most of them do not turn on larry kudlow or related programs. they turn on something to entertain themselves. and so the campaign is just operating that way. i used the analogy from the

movie "brake heart" when the gibson character is telling his troops to hold, hold, hold. i think that's what you've seen. with president obama's ridiculous comments today, they just couldn't hold back anymore. when you get a gift like that from somebody who makes a gaffe that big that defines how little the president knows about the economy, even while they were hold, hold, holding, they had to come out. >> president obama dug an even deeper hole for himself today. anyway, as always, sir, it's great to see you. thanks for coming on. >> it's the middle class stupid. >> your man is digging himself

in now, he really wants to tell americans it's a shame. what about the history of american entrepreneurs. now, obama has gagner too far. >> i still think we're dealing with a debate where obama seems to be uncomfortable with his own identity. it's still part of the same argument that obama isn't being nice, not up to being presidential, he's going too far. kind of excessive language that we heard here from the governor who i respect. i think it's a reflection of a campaign that feels fairly desperate. but getting right down to it, the real problem is that he doesn't -- hasn't been defending capit capitalism. he was a capitalist.

>> but romney is coming back now. >> it's an attack without an identity. why doesn't he defend his whole identity that he's had in business? this is the first sign we've seen in that. i've been cheering him to accept that identity. up until now, you know, he's been very defensive about what he's doing. i think first of all romney coming out swinging today, obama really believes government runs the economy. obama does not believe in capitalism. now two, romney is coming out. i want to ask you about these characters, steve jobs, henry ford, papa john's, raycro kroftd bill gates.

he's going to push obama further and further back. only government succeeds. that will never play. >> obama did romney a real favor today. he belittles american business achievement and american entrepreneurship and he's going to have to walk it back. i give him credit for being a smart abled group and being disciplined. so i assume he meant to say what he said and they've got open warfare now on business. but i don't think they thought two or three moves down the board. i think they're more worried about winning in july and they should think about wiping in october. this is going to stick to obama. he's going to regret it. he probably already does regret it. i can see the ads that are. co-ing. we're going to see a lot more of it. >> when we talk to the governor, he wants to be on the offense regarding his great business success. he can do never better than an

add praising clinton for his business success. but i want romney to tell us in three or four quick phrases how he is going to solve unemployment. how he is going to solve this lousy economy, how he's going to get middle class people out of the doldrum. he's got to make that key linkage. bill clinton used to make it, ronald reagan used to make it. you were pressuring him so long to have the 20% cut across the board. i think you're going to see romney in the convention, near the convention start to play up tax cuts much more than he has in july. right now he's playing defense on all these bain tax return stories. >> maybe have a great target. >> stan greenberg -- romney has actually said 4%, which i think is pretty cool. by the way, somebody else has

done that. that's something obama never wants to talk about. the fed chairman said the economy is lousy today. how is he going to get around it if romney fights it? >> romney has refused to make the case that he knows how to great american capitalism as a former american businessman and embrace it. but what the president is doing, and i think it's quite right, he's focusing on the future. some of that includes what the government has to do along with busine business. >> never enough time. romney showed some life today. thank you. coming up on "kudlow" bernanke

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fed chairman ben bernanke grilled on capitol hill today and offered a stern warning for lawmakers, take action quickly or risk going off the financial cliff, which would be devastating to our economy. joining me now, pat toomey, republican from pennsylvania. senator, welcome whack to the kudlow report. as always, sir. can i just beliefly get your re reaction to president obama's recent insult of business people, successful feel and entrepreneurs saying they can't do it alone without government? it's a hot topic. what's your take on the obama topic? >> i was stock shocked and maybe i shouldn't be, but for him to be so disparaging and dismissive

of the work and risk and effort and creativity and everything it takes when an entrepreneur launches a business and to suggest somehow there's an infrastructure in this country, that entrepreneurial effort should be den graded and minimized is outrageous and totally inconsistent with what made this country the great society that it is. so i'm just amazed. >> do you think that was the kind of subliminal, i hesitate, but almost unconscious letting loose of president obama's real philosophical instinctive feelings? >> well, in the clips that i saw, it certainly looks like he was speaking off the cuff, not off a teleprompter. so it was really a reminder of me of his famous line in the last campaign when he said to joe the plumber, he really wants to spread the wealth around a little bit. i do think it was a glimpse into the way he really thinks and it's a disturbing one.

i know you've been involved in tax policy and tax reform. yesterday, patty murray gave a speech at the brookings institute. she said if the republicans won't agree to raising taxes on the rich people, we are not going to have an extension of the tax cuts at all. they will expire december 31 and will go to 2013. your quick take on patty murray? really just breathtaking again. what if we have this increase, she's saying she's willing to raise taxes big time on everyone, on everything. and knowing that that is almost certainly would trigger a serious recession. cbo has predicted very dire consequences if that happens. and yet she's said she's willing to do that, inflict that on our

economy if we won't punish wealthy people. >> do you think ben bernanke's message today was to say, don't expect me to fix your funding. >> i think our problems are not monetary in nature. that's why our economy is week. and he's been fighting it by flooding the economy with easy money. i don't think that's the right mix. i wish he would be more definitive about the fact that he's done with trying to just flood the economy with money and we need to get our fiscal house in order and have some pro

growth tax policy. i believe mr. bernanke said to you, he can't deal with the libor problem because it's run by the european banking commission. was that an acceptable answer to you? >> he's not alone. they have known for nearly five years the libor setting that routinely occurs and afktss so many transactions lacks integrity. how they could know this for years and not disclose this generally and not really insist the financial institutions find a mechanism which would be readily available, i don't understand. >> make a big stink.

>> absolutely. a and why won't you rely on variable rates that has integrity. they have remained unreliable all these months. >> this is just one of the topics i discussed with treasury secretary timothy geithner. that will be tomorrow. he's my special guest as part of the delivering alpha conference sponsored by cnbc and institutionals in tor. up next tonight, senator toomey said, why were regulators in radio silence when they knew darn well the world's largest banks were manipulating the benchmark libor rate? we'll try to find some answer whence we return. i've ever driven.is thee i bought the car because of its efficiency. i bought the car because i could eliminate gas from my budget. i don't spend money on gasoline. it's been 4,000 miles since my last trip to the gas station.

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>> it's clear beyond these closures that the libor system is truck churlly flawed and part of the response was to address those flaws. >> that, of course, was ben bernanke testifying before the senate banking committee earlier today. he was responding to the libor

banking stannal. so where were regulators? let's talk distinguished analyst dick bove. who got hurt? >> the victims were the lenders, not the borrowers. >> the if ted ral reserve is attempting to lower interest rates. other central banks around the world also want to lower interest rates. maybe tens and hundreds of trillions of dollars of security are not based upon the federal funds rate, they're based upon libor. now libro is going up in value.

it's directly contrary to what the central bank is trying to achieve. >> i don't understand, barclays kept the libor rate lower. so all those mortgages benefi d benefited. i care say state and local governments benefited. maybe you're right, the victim was the bank. >> if you were the head of the federal reserve and you're trying to cut the rates, all the interest rates are rising because lie boar is rising, you have the ability to stop libor

from rising. >> as you're suggesting, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. now, the question is, are heads going to roll here? the american banks, only a couple two or three playing libor, are heads going to roll like they did at barclays? >> i think there are only two banks. i think citigroup is out of the picture because they had wlr been investigating for setting the libor rate. there are only flee banks flib banks for loans in the united states.

>> it's a very odd system. i think it needs some market reform. maybe we need to just not use the libor benchmark anymore. dick bove, sorry we don't have more time. thanks for your input. >> tune in tomorrow night. my interview with treasury secretary tim geithner. thanks for watching. this libor story is one of the strangest stories i have ever seen. i'm still trying to figure out who's the victim on "kudlow." [ male announcer ] how do you trade?

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