terrorist attack from beginning but he is wrong. they can't get their story straight on this. even cnn's candy crowley admitted she got it wrong in last night's debate. we'll try to get to the bottom of this whole story. is the new key to economic recovery housing? it is sure starting to look that way. 15% rise in housing starts this september. that is the big number. let's first get to breaking news, the fbi crashes a plot to bomb the federal reserve and take with it a good part of the new york financial district. jonathan broke the story and joins us with the details. good evening, what's the latest? >> good evening, the suspect drove a van packed with what he believed were 1,000 pounds of explosives down to lower manhattan outside the federal reserve bank here in lower manhattan and then tried to detonate that device using a cell phone call but the device

was inert because the fbi using an undercover operation, was able to provide fake explosives so that no one was ever in me real risk but they say the plot was serious and the suspect traveled from bangladesh on a student visa to try to strike with the u.s. he's identified as quauzi mohammad nafis, transferring to an english as second language school in new york when the not was uncovered. homeland security agents have been following him since at least june of this year. following his every move as he went about buying i am moan yum nitrate. to give you a comparison, the world trade center bombing back

in 1993, that was a 1,000 pound bomb where six people were killed and 1,000 were injured and that bomb was set off in a parking garage, not on the crowded streets of lower manhattan. ray kelly briefed the press about this when asked about the suspect's aspirations and capabilities. >> i wouldn't call it inspirational when you pick up 50 20-pound bags of immoan yum nitrate and bring it to a site of a major federal reserve facility and try to detonate it. that goes way past inspirational. >> they have the suspect on tape saying he wanted to destroy america and was a follower of our beloved sheikh osama bin laden. >> our beloved. thank you, jonathan. first john i ever had, federal reserve bank. i'm glad they nailed him. let's get right to our special

guest on this. peter king. chairman peter king, welcome back. first of all, i believe you've been quoted as saying that actually whether it's domestically or internationally, you believe al qaeda may be more dangerous now than ever before. is that an accurate quote? >> larry, it's very accurate and many intelligent experts agree with me. al qaeda going back through or four years ago they realized under the bush/cheney administration we built up too much defense for them, on offense against them. they decided to change their tactics and rather than just al qaeda, now you have al qaeda and arabian peninsula, al shabab, and lone wolves recruited by al qaeda and al qaeda sending people into this country or under the radar screen, clean people if you will with no record or no criminal record or no record of terrorist activity

and come from good backgrounds. it's much harder to find out who the enemy is. the good sign is it's very difficult for them to launch a 9/11 type attack again. the bad sign for us we don't know who these people are to the extent we did before and they can carry out attacks like a subway attack or something like this with the federal reserve. >> chairman king, this is really interesting, the domestic part is equally interesting. does president obama and his close circle understand that the al qaeda offchutes and derivatives are just as dangerous now as ever before, even with osama gone. do they get this peter? >> i think people in the administration do. i think the general petraeus gets it, head of the cia and matt olson, but the people around the president and president's narrative in the campaign indicates he doesn't get it. when he talks about how al qaeda has been decimated and now he can turn our attention to the

pacific. what we saw in benghazi was an example of those capable of carrying out a vicious attack. the president wants to act as if he in three years as able to defeat al qaeda. bin laden is dead, that's great. there are so many other smaller al qaeda operations with very lethal, the person arrested in new york was a follower of al lawky. it is written in american slang and it's appealed to americans in this country. >> chairman king, today there was another cyber attack on a bank, i believe it was capital one. we've had a lot of cyber attacks on banks. when you look at this kid trying

to go after the federal reserve, it seems the jihad attack is to go through the financial system, which was one of the original justifications for 9/11, as you recall. >> that's really a two prong attack for al qaeda or its allies, by attacking the financial system, these are great symbols of america but in reality can be damaging to america. symbolically important and also important as far as having a very dell tear yus effect on our economy. >> homeland security chairman peter king, we appreciate it. thank you for your insight. >> we know benghazi was going to be a major focus of last evening's debate and president obama would likely continue to skirt questions really that americans deserve answers to. we did not know moderator candy crowley was going to inject herself into the debate. be a safety net for obama and throw romney off his game. take a listen to this. >> took the president 14 days before he called the attack in

benghazi an act of terror. >> get the transcript. >> he did in fact, sir. let me call it an act of terror -- >> say that a little louder, candy. >> he did call it an act of terror. >> here's the problem. he did not. and crowley knows it. since the debate she has recanted. pay close attention to this piece of sound from the president the day after the attack. >> no acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. >> the bottom line is mitt romney actually had that right and the president still to the best of my knowledge, still has not explicitly called the attack the at benghazi an act of terror. a former clinton white house aid and author of outpub numbered

chronicles of a manhattan conservative. has obama said it is a pre-planned terrorist attack? >> i have yet to hear it. he went on "the view" and went before the u.n., those were all opportunities and some cases where he was asked directly was this a terrorist attack. joy behar said hillary clinton defined this as a terror attack are you willing to do the same? he talked about the video and said we don't have enough information we're still investigating. how could they still be investigating and he not know at that point but several days later in the rose garden he did know. the time line doesn't make sense. >> are we wrong, keith? >> you're both completely wrong, you're wrong because several days later doesn't make any sense. it was the day after the attack when president obama went to the rose garden. you just played the videotape. he said no acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation. >> that's a generic statement. >> it just so happened on the

day after the terrorist attack he happened to say acts of terror but he wasn't talking about the terrorist attack? that's an inconceivable stretch. >> he was talking about iraq, afghanistan, 9/11. >> have you heard same they were terrorist attacks? >> one at a time. >> he just played it a second ago. >> i can't believe you watched the same video i watched. >> the video says no acts of terror would shake the resolve of this great nation. you're dead right. but the argument is whether he was referring to what happened in benghazi. and i want to ask -- >> but -- >> let me finish. you can knock me down, but let me get it out. you're a friend. he went out for the next two weeks and said that what really happened was not an act of terror but was because of the u tube video and simultaneous demonstrations. he didn't use the act of terror argument at all and i believe, i know you think you're wrong, i haven't heard him use it

officially. hillary has used it. he hasn't used it. >> the idea that the youtube video and acts of terror is mutually exclusive is wrong. the youtube video could have had something to do with it. i don't think those are interest consistent. you and jedi ya and mitt romney are barking up the wrong tree. there's an argument to be made that the obama team fumbled this issue on benghazi but you're going to pars the words of the president when he used the word act of terror after the attack. make a better attack. this is ridiculous obsession by the right and not going to get you anywhere. >> with respect to susan rice, are we to assume she did all of the sunday shows where she said it was not premeditated, without consulting with the white house? is that possible in your mind? that's not possible in my mind. >> i don't understand that you can't figure out what i'm saying here. the point is it doesn't matter

whether the youtube video was or was not an issue here. and you can still believe that the youtube video had some impact on it and it was an act of terror. >> that doesn't explain the disconnect between the state department and susan rice and president obama and all of the mixed messages. >> one other point, keith. look, i understand your point of view, respect your point of view and respect you. but it is interesting, the state department security people watched this thing in real time and they were one of the ones that came forward pretty fast along with other intelligence agencies to say there is no way this had anything to do with spont neyty, it was a preplanned attack. you had all of the experts with the exception of the president and some of his close -- that's the part i don't understand. why is that -- >> susan rice is part of the state department, united nations ambassador -- >> who made this this story for her? >> this is what's troubling,

when the marine bombing attack happened in 1986 when president reagan was in office and you were there at the same time. the democrats didn't rush and try to plit size this. when the september 11th attack happened and world trade center was destroyed. the democrats didn't try to rush it. the republicans are politicizing the death of american service members when there was clearly some sort of incident that needs to be discussed and investigated. if you want to go down this line next monday in the debate, if mitt romney wants to pursue it, it will be a losing -- >> will he? >> mitt romney, absolutely, this will come up again. syria will come up again, the iranian revolution and lack of obama support for that but clarity on this issue will come up again. we're talking about mixed message, if we accept your premise and say barack obama in the rose garden defined this as a terrorist attack, it doesn't explain why for two weeks he did not define it that way in major

media outlets. >> i think what you have to do, get behind this whole word smithing thing. >> but it is important. >> it is not important, he said acts of terror. >> that's what i'm saying, if you accept that, that's not what he said for the next two weeks. >> regardless in every single instance he has to say the exact same word to please you in the rights -- >> people can watch it themselves. >> the foreign policy debate is monday night and we're going to talk more about this. jedidiah, thank you so much. you're welcome to come back, keith. another one, this is better, many americans feel last night's debate was more about hostile physical behavior than actual words. all right. our presidential candidates looked a bit like caged animals, both of them ready to pounce. we're going to have a body

language expert to walk us through the most tense moments. keith and i on the set last night, we didn't have any of that stuff. later on, housing starts surge a whopping 15% and this could be a key to a faster economic recovery. don't forget, premarket capitalism is the best path to prosperity, the housing market is clearing and economy may perk up as a result of markets. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price.

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less about what was said than what wasn't as body language can leave a lasting impression, here to break down what we saw is dr. lillian glass, body language and author of the new book "the body language advantage." i hope my body language is conducive to this conversation. >> it's great. >> before we play the clip, tell me what you see and president obama's body language right here. >> i see a lot of tension in the jaw. i see a lot of anger in the eye area. i also see him pointing, which is very angry. so this is an angry president. >> can i ask you about this.

i want to say about this. he's supposed to be an has generally been a very cool customer, a professor, professors don't generally scream and get angry and throw punches. what's happened here? >> did a very bad job. >> not coming from his heart or soul or because he hates mitt romney, they said do this, be angry. >> somebody must have done something because this is a completely different person than we saw in the first debate that we've seen for four years. we've never seen that rage come out of him. that was quite fascinating. >> let's play the clip and hear what he says. >> >> romney says he's got a five-point plan. governor romney doesn't have a five-point plan, he has a one-point plan and that is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules. >> all right, that is a direct insult to mitt romney. >> it is. >> look at the badody language,

the clenched hand. he does it several times. mitt romney says he has a five-point time and been saying it for a long time. that's very immature and not very professional. >> this is deliberately confrontational. >> yes, it is unacceptable. >> a shot to the jaw. let's look at video when president om obama and mitt romney first entered the debate hall. >> you see here they are shaking hands and being cordial but it's a phony smile, not genuine. they are being very pleasant with one another and sit down and they are -- you can see there's a lot of tension. >> i just saw that. >> did you seat tension? >> he's clenching his teeth. >> he's clenching his teeth and clenching his jaw. he's not that warm, fuzzy president that we've seen. it's a tense president with a lot of tension in the jaw, the jaw is the key factor to look at. >> dentist is going to kill him.

plenty of contentious exchanges, let's take a look at one right now. >> what we did is take away those leases and we're reletting them so we can -- >> and production on government land is down? >> no, it isn't. >> down 14%. >> governor -- >> and production of gas down 9%. >> it's just not true. >> it's absolutely true. >> there's no question that the people recognize we have not produced more -- >> i'll give you your time, go ahead. >> on federal lands and federal waters and coal production is not up and i was at the coal facility where 1200 people lost their jobs. right course for america is to have a true all of the above policy. i don't think anyone really believes that you're a person who's going to be pushing for oil and gas and coal. you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking -- well, if you're asking me a question i'm going to answer. >> that wasn't a question, that was a statement. >> let's look at how did romney handle it.

the bodies get very close and anger level seems to rise. maybe i'm partisan here, i think obama looks angrier than romney. you tell me. how did romney handle himself. >> obama was inappropriate, you don't stand up when someone is speaking, it's an aggressive move and romney spoke up and he said sit down, you'll have your turn. you notice the president took water because he was feeling that in his body, his nervous system took over so he had cotton mouth, dry mouth so he took the water to kind of relax and to also to create more saliva. >> did you see anger from romney. >> i saw more of a calmness. even though he was annoyed with it, he handled it and dealt with it in control. look at that body movement stance, he's telling him, back off, stay away. it's my turn right now. >> you talk about obama's apparent anger, easy to read. how do voters in your experience

react to that kind of anger? >> they are not going to like it. because this is a different man. you know, i dpaf a lot of interviews to the associated press about what the body language was like during the first debate and i saw that he did some things that he shouldn't have done and expressed that to the press, like he said uh a lot and looked down. you saw in this debate he did everything correctly, he looked at his opponent and very -- he smiled and did all of the right things. but with this anger, somebody must have coached him and said, you've got to show some fire. and it doesn't work with him. >> great stuff. dr. lillian glass, thank you very much. her new book "the body language advantage" is available now. ground breaking on new homes surge in september. it's the fastest pace in more than four years and it could be the foundation of a faster economic recovery. that's up next on "the kudlow report." americans believe they should be in charge of their own future.

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the latest housing stats provide evidence it could spike gdp growth and create something of a better job story. take a look at these numbers. existing home sale prices surge 9.5%. home builder confidence at levels not seen since june of 2006. and today housing starts jumped 15% after the month of september and 35% from the year ago. that is housing starts a big number. question, is this housing

improvement going to give us a much stronger economy? we've got jim, the director of t gm institutional sales. welcome, jim. this is one of the things that has been totally lacking. in other words, you could argue that let's say we've been running a 2% economic growth on gdp. if you had better housing maybe that number would have been 3%. >> no doubt, 2% is kind of generous if you take all things into account and construction got us into this and housing got us into this. it has to participate to get us out and anything that's going to be better than a slow start along the bottom. >> inventories are coming down and the various distress sales are starting to come down. we don't know that for sure. the price action looks good nationwide, no question about that. is this sustainable? >> i think there is, think there's a shadow inventory where people are waiting for the market to come back to sell homes and it goes back to qe infinity, i think the search for

hard assets will start -- >> they had quite a run. they've been discounting this better news. >> look at the 10-year chart, they had quite a fall. they are an impressive bunch in my opinion. >> some of this is low interest rate and some is demand, we have needs for new home building over time. this could be a real surprise for -- we're talking gdp, talking jobs and construction jobs and things that used to be crucial to the economy. >> no doubt. the job picture, we've seen good numbers and but we have not seen good jobs and i'll argue that against anybody. this is the thing that could make us have real job recovery. we can't have a jobless recovery, if we have that we'll get 1.5 gdp. >> i know a lot of business investment is frozen, there's a lot of that around. factory oords, durable goods, not good. job figures not good. car sales pretty good, consumer

spending not bad, but not fabulous. this home price situation and stock prices are up 30% year on year. things are not so bad. i take a little optimism, is that okay? >> that's fine but i put more optimism on housing starts today than any of those other things, particularly the stock market, a lot of it is from the back beat of an easy fed pumping money in the system. this home thing is a big deal. >> what's your strategy? >> again, i plan on increasing that if it continues to show strength and you look at the 10-year chart, these stocks have been hammered and figured out how to make money months ago when things were bad. >> it's an improvement, things are not so bad. let's not get too pessimistic. coming up, a new poll shows romney leading obama 65 to 34 on

the economy. that's from last night's debate. the country finally realizes we can't afford another four years of president obama. next up on "kudlow." [ male announcer ] the 2013 smart comes with 8 airbags, a crash management system and the world's only tridion safety cell which can withstand over three and a half tons. small in size. big on safety. is now within your grasp with the e-trade 360 investing dashboard. e-trade 360 is the world's first investing homepage that shows you where all your investments are and what they're doing with free streaming quotes, news, analysis and even your trade ticket. everything exactly the way you want it, all on one page.

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welcome back. ibm shaved about 85 points off the dow with shares down almost 5% since yesterday's close but stocks still finished positive. s&p and nasdaq are on track for the biggest gains in six weeks. the dow, by the way, is only 4% off its all time high. and the s&p, 7% off. let's talk to jeremy sooegle, professor of finance at university of pennsylvania whart on school and author of "stocks for the long run." it's great to have you back on. i was just talking to jim, a great trader and analyst himself. housing is coming alive and kind of suggests the economy is not going down into the dumps, which in turn in my simple way of looking at life, suggests the stock market has life in it. >> you're spot on here, larry. i've been saying for six months the improvement in the housing picture and it was really

emphasized with housing starts, is the biggest thing for the economy in 2013. i agree, i think it can add 1, maybe 1.5% points to growth next year. that turnaround is huge. >> you get you back to 3% growth, that's what's been missing or one of the things missing. >> exactly. we should be 3 to 4% with so many unused resources, how we stay at 2% as long as we have, this will not last. >> all right. so the question of the evening is, when can we get through the all time highs of september -- october 2007? we're not very far from them on the major indexes. what do you think? >> i think any extension of the tax cuts, the fiscal cliff or postponement of that because i thought what we saw a couple of weeks ago, people saying, hey, i'm going to take it at my 15%

now. i think stocks are good but i'll cash in and rebuy them in january. any news that we're going to postpone and work on it next year could be met by a huge rally, 500 to 1,000 points on the dow which will set it up to new all time high. >> do we need favorable outcome in the presidential election? i regard romney as the more market oriented guy although the stock market has had a good run under obama, no two ways about that. does the election figure into your thinking, just regarding the fiscal cliff, the big tax hike we're worried about? >> i think that personally romney would be better for the market, although we know the history larry and that is the market does pretty well under presidents that are democratic and it does very well when presidents are democratic and congress is republican and of course we look at the bill

clinton bull market that we have. i don't think you know, that the election of obama is a major negative for the market going forward. i think the economic growth is a much more important story for it. >> good enough. so let's just say for argument sake, we get through the fiscal cliff, that the big tax hike is not going to come. let's just argue that for a second and put the presidential election aside. my question to you is how high in injure judgment in the next couple of years can the doe jones go? >> almost a year ago i went on record saying by the end of 2013 the dow was going to be over 15,000. this was when the dow was 13,000. i think that's going to very easily be done. i gave a 50/50 chance of the dow at 17,000 by the end of next year. i still feel that way. in fact, we get this growth going again with these very low interest rates, you know, larry,

we hear about 15 price earnings ratios, when interest rates are as low as they are, 18, 19, 20 is the norm, we could have multiple expansion. we could drive the dow well above 17,000 by the end of next year. >> we know, jeremy, maybe the last point, whether good or bad, we know the fed is going to keep zero rate well into the 3% growth. bernanke has essentially said that, even if the economy picks up, housing or whatever, they are not going to tighten up maybe in my lifetime but not for the next two years. does that play into your 17,000 dow? >> i think they will tighten up in our lifetime. i think they are going to have to tighten up earlier than what they say. what the important thing is, bull markets never end at the beginning of a fed tightening. they go on two, three, four years, not until the very end when they really you know, pull on the brakes that you have any trouble with the stock market. bull markets continue through the first two years of a fed

tightening. we got a long time for this bull market. >> if i read you right, particularly on the last point with the fed, we've got maybe four or five years of this bull market, is that what you're implying? >> it is potentially certain, yep. we almost had a ten-year bull market during the '90s and we're startling with much more slack in the economy than we did back then. >> thank you. jeremy seigle. coming up, forget what the mainstream media say, americans believe mitt romney won last night's debate when it came to the economy. 20 days left until the election. we'll talk about it next up. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs.

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let me ask you, before we get inside obama's head. who won the debate in your judgment? >> it depends on how you score it, what the meaning of is is. if you are looking for somebody who achieved their purpose in terms of solidifying a base that they lost in the last debate, give obama a couple of points. but in terms of who did themselves the most good for the election, i think that would be mitt romney. he actually talked about the economy. i think this is the kudlow debate because in this debate they were competing for the world growth. it's about time. >> they really were. it's very interesting, we'll bring in matt miller, "washington post" columnist and great tv commentator. matt miller, for some reason, ha ha, cnn's polling and cbs's polling gave romney gigantic leads on the economic issue, the economic issue is the most important issue. what does that tell you, matt?

>> i think that obama's always been vulnerable on the economy. we know that romney's macro theory of the race has been with this many people struggling to find work, that he is a credible alternative would have a shot. that's his theory. obama's theory is clearly as we saw last night about drawing sharp contrast on the difference in values. you know, symbolized by romney's focus on tax cuts, largely for the top and by numbers now that he says on his jobs plan and taxes don't add up. obama is trying to win on values and romney is trying to hope that the economy can get him over the finish line. >> larry, i think this simpler than matt is saying. i don't think obama is trying to draw a contrast, he's trying to disqualify romney. and that seems to be because the campaign concluded they can't. they don't have a case to make about the next four years. why they would be different or

better. he's trying -- he can't put out the fire so he's trying to break the other firemen's knees. when romney showed up in the last debate and revealed himself, gee, he's an acceptable republican and kind of a normal guy, that really shattered, i think obama's campaign strategy. he's a man with nothing to say. >> but the problem is that romney's theory -- and i'm not trying to make this too partisan, romney's theory doesn't require anything about a sham affirmative plan of his own. his five-point plan is if you unpack is no great shakes nor is obama laying out something interesting. i think both parties are failing us on that score. they both have theories how to get to 50% plus one. neither serious about long term problems facing the country. >> alex, i sort of like mitt romney's five-point plan in the sense it's 5 and not 55. i might have been one of the people who inplunsed him to get that down when i worked for

reagan, he ran twice on a four-point plan. i'm trying to figure out what exactly on the other hand is obama's message? that's the one i don't hear. it's not a growth message. it's tax the rich and let me spend the money message which we've heard for four years and not very much economic success. >> that's pretty much it. i think it's hysterical to see the candidate who ran last four years ago on hope and change who doesn't have an agenda now criticizing mitt romney for not being specific enough. the obama strategy seems to be this, there's a house with a couple of rooms in it and the rich people are in a nicer room than poor people. and women are not in as nice a room as men. by gosh, you have hispanics and then we back up and the entire house is burning down. nobody is growing the economy while we're facing american

decline. and that is i think. mow ses didn't say i have a five-point plant. he said there's a better place for us. i thought that was mitt romney's best moment, we don't have to settle for this economy. >> i don't know about anl guysing mitt romney to moses. but his 12 million job plan, all of the economists say we're going to get 12 million jobs as we get the more normalized economy working off the real estate and financial bubbles that leaves us with a deeper recession. there's nothing real. they both trying to take credit for the kind of fracking and under expansion that's terrific long term as long as we balance it with the environmental concerns. but no one is offering serious agendas to renewing american education and get the long-term deficit under control. romney, for his part, if he adopted some of the infrastructure building which people in both parties know we

need to do and some of the rnd and other public investments if romney embraced would add to the rockefeller republican luster that has got him back -- made this race so competitive, do himself well. >> i'm a reagan republican, but i have to tell you alex, i rather like mitt romney, he is running in many respects as a conservative reformer. he wants to reform the tax code and reform health care and social security. he wants to reform energy. he wants to reform federal spending. in other words, i see him as a reformer. i see obama as the old school big government liberal. what's your quick take? >> that's precisely it. barack obama old school, do we grow the economy top down from washington? nothing new. mitt romney, change, grow the economy bottom up naturally and organically, two different theories. >> hang on. >> great talking points but doesn't make them true, larry.

>> we have more. matt miller, thank you we'll have you come back. that's what i just heard. stay with us, we're getting down to it now. reform versus big government. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade.

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let's get back to our two talking head stars, matt miller and center for american progress senior fellow. and alex castellanos. i don't think mitt romney is a rockefeller republican, i think he's probably a fiscal reformer in ways that people don't understand. and the fiscal reform of taxes, spending and entitlements could spell growth, even a romney economic growth boom if we got some of this government out of the way. >> i think that's the best of mitt romney. he's a transformational leader. what he's done all his life is

go into situations where things weren't working and reform them. we had olympics $300 million in the hole and right after 9/11, we're giving up on that thing, he transformed that. the business world, it wasn't just the investment business, but it was applying that investment business to an economy where industry was more stagnantly 80s and 90s and helped transform that. i think he can go to washington and you can see someone who will sell every other republican building and replace it with three websites and start growing not washington's economy but america's economy. that's what he's good at. >> and matt miller, my challenge to you in terms of your man, barack obama, i see him as a pretty old fashioned lab ral class war fare type guy, from chicago, likes to take from the rich and give to friends, whether it's unions or green energy people.

i mean, i don't see any reform from obama. matt you're more of a reformer than obama is. >> you should have been the one asking the last question that obama answered. i'm a socialist somehow. the stock market is doubled. we got ourselves through the worst recession since the great depression and mitt romney is the kind of reformer i applaud for massachusetts, only governor enacted a universal health care plab to reach progressive goals that everyone can accept. that, if he didn't run away from all of that, that's something i can endorse. the idea that obama by adopting romney's reform for massachusetts and anyone knows that was the model -- >> but, matt, the case you just made is not for barack obama as i reformer but as an establish elitist. he has preserved everything -- >> these are the same buzz words. you walk into the situation that he did, mitt romney, who very

disingenuously like things on the detroit bailout, did the right thing and mitt romney knows and kind of lied through his teeth on this last night. there was no debtor in possession financing if you did it in the private sector. everyone in larry's audience understands what that means. >> i may not be moses either let me see if i can part the confusion for you. no one has flip flopped on more issues than this president. when you're unencumbered by principal it's seem as pra ma tix not betrayal. he extended the bush tax cuts sean attacked hillary clinton's health care mandates. >> hostage on the debt limit by the gop -- >> there's always a good reason for flip-flopping. they are very good at that in washington. >> wait a minute, why don't we stipulate they are both very plexible. >> to alex's point, we covered

the 2008 debates very very carefully when hillary ran against barack obama. it was barack obama who was opposed to the health care mandate. and hillary was in favor of it. obama comes in office and adopts the mandate and it turns outs the most unpopular thing he ever does. that's what you're talking about. >> what if it's sound policy. >> he just flip-flops. >> but it's sound policy. >> who said it was sound policy? i don't think it's sound policy at all. >> only way to get to universal coverage with a private insurance system. that's why romney did it in massachusetts. >> that may be the one pair system where obama is going. a lot of good simple ways to look at it and that's growth is important. we all want to see growth in this economy. democrats think any time government needs more revenue, what do we do, we eat the seed core. you're seeing a different approach, let's planned the seed in the fertile soil of america's economy not in the barren concrete of washington.

that's the choice people are seeing. romney, in that cnn post debate survey, only 33% of viewers were republican, 58% thought he had a better plan for the economy. that's important. >> one more thing, matt, mitt romney can reach across the aisle and can find common ground. he does know democrats. i don't think that barack obama has ever met a republican for more than ten or 15 minutes and can't reach across the aisle. romney is the guy who gets stuff done. your man doesn't seem to be able to get it done. >> again, with all due respect that's a caricature, he does have the capacity to do that but there's no question the congressional republicans made a decision once they had the power to not do anything that would give obama any advantage going into the re-elect. that's power politics, he's a big boy. obama had to deal with that. but the idea there's a real,

real superiority on one side or the other in dealing across a dysfunctional divided washington -- >> who better than a private equity deal maker to keep america out of bankruptcy and start growing again? who better? you guys are great. thanks for hanging out. matt miller, alex castellanos. that's it for this evening's show. i still think romney is a conservative reformer and i thnk he won the debate last night. bob, these projections... they're... optimistic.

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(dick van dyke) in 1964, on opening night of "mary poppins," walter elias disney had reached the pinnacle of his career. the man who arrived in hollywood some 40 years earlier with a half-finished cartoon in his suitcase had become one of the leading figures of filmed entertainment. i tried to convince her i was, uh, capable of making a... a picture with, uh, live actors as well as cartoons.