called me a great investor. i thank you for that. unfortunately, i can't say the same for you. but i would like to ask you, congratulations on one good trade. i sort of missed that. >> i goes, we are going to end it there. bill, so much appreciate you coming on today. carl, i hope you'll come back. that's all i can say. it was a good conversation and it wasn't anybody's -- >> i don't hear you tell me that you appreciated me coming on. >> i think it was obviously meant there when i said that i hope you will come back. >> all right, thanks very much. i appreciate it. have a good day. >> bill ackman. carl icahn. we will go to break and pouchblg will pick up the ball. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics...

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markets are tradings at five-year highes. s&p 500 has been sitting right around that 1500 level, just above that at 1499 and change as i sit here and rejoin again, thanks for your patience. again, give our viewers a view on how you see things transpiring over the remaining parts of this year. >> we are in a bull market. and markets like this, at the end, at the end of the run do very, very well. one thing that no one has talked about and anything i've read is having a really good year and i remember in the 1990 market, we had 1995, 1982 market, we had 30% gain in '85. and so, i wouldn't take that off the table. i'm positive, there's going to be months. but i think in one of the most positive things in here is all of the negatives will go by the way side one by one. and the economy is picking up.

europe is looking better. you look at the european automobile manufacturers, bmws are up 35% last year. so i think everything is fine and i think that, you know, the old cliche is don't fight it and i think as the public realizes, and people realize the market is not going to come back. >> it's been great having you again. we appreciate your patience and we look forward to having you back soon. guys, leave us with a thought from each of you if you would. set us up for next week. we are at the point in the market we haven't been for five years. s&p 500 hanging out. industrial average point away from its all-time high. >> there is a lot to look forward to and you know a lot of it will be about what transpired on our network for the last 45 minutes. herbalife will be on everybody's lips even though that is not the economy. economy is doing better than we expected. we talked about german business

confidence and so forth. but there certainly will be a new focus on herbalife, scott. and that's going to be my focus into next week. >> there's one thing that does trouble me. what troubles me is that we are all bullish here. everybody i talked to is bullish. despite how bullish people are and despite that hedge funds are invested more so than they've been, and i disagree with laslo. in order to get the market move higher, you have to see the bond bubble burst because the economy is getting better. federal exits sooner. and those rates back up 250 to 3% on the ten-year in the next six months. >> i remain bullish because of what we are seeing in the economy. both in the u.s. and germany as well. there is reason to be bullish. i understand, i look at your

stocks and it looks a lot like the stocks that i follow, quite frankly. you've got some farm names in there and bigger beta names in there as well. i do think there is strength and you've got to be cautious though because the bumps you talked about i, i think will be bumps that a a lot of people can't ride through the bumps. >> i have to ask quickly, then we have to really run. apple is your largest holding. >> yes. >> are you the biggest believer or are you -- >> i'm the wrong person to ask about apple. i'm prejudice against the stock. i recommended it on wall street week in 1998 at 3.50. i'm a little biassed. >> in other words, you're staying with us. >> thank you for being with us for the past hour or so. have a great weekend. don't forget, "money in motion" starts at 5:00 tonight on cnbc. "power lunch" really does begin right now. le announcer ] something powerful is coming.

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follow us on twitter. get break news. find out what's coming up and everything else you need to know at "power lunch" on twitter. >> and welcome to "power lunch." we are closing in on all-time highs on the dow and s&p. this hour is devoted to you, the american investor, as we look at strategies to help you capitalize and we ask this important question. is it too late to get in. and this was must-see tv. you saw it here on cnbc. the wall street fight of the century. bill ackman and carl icahn

together, going at it blow by blow. we recap it, have cramer standing in the wings. we have a whole team that will talk about that. speaking of talking about it, ty, i could hear traders reacting on the floor of the nyse to that hour that we just saw. >> oh, did they ever, sue. twhae wasn't that special? interesting seeing two wealthy men going at it that way. i've been here a number of times, as you have, sue, and i've never seen the floor quite animated as it was here. mary thompson is here. the smile on people's faces. it was like listening to a prize fight. scott wapner, the referee in the ring, will be with us in a moment. we will bring it back home here with your money and decisions you need it make about your financial future. the dow and s&p 500 approaching all-time high territory. so is now the time to get in or are you -- are you too late? a simple question, but a tough

one to answer. here are a couple of the facts. dow is at highs, not seen since the end of 2007. it is on track for its best january performance since, get this, 1994. s&p also now at levels not seen since 2007. scores of stocks hitting new 52-week highs. big names on the list. 3m, united technology, proctor and -- where is herbalife in this? i don't know. sue, back to you. >> let's ask the big question. is time now, time to get back into the game, kenny with o'neill securities, jim with jtm, kkm financial ceo and chairman and cio financiales. we went through technical levels. is now the time to get back?

? >> i don't think so. i think the structure of your portfolio should be bullish. in other words you should have a lot of stocks in your portfolio. but i think in the current environme environment, sue, we are talking about slow growth in the economy, slow growth in earnings. in this kind of environment, you have to be tough on price, really tough on your entry point. and as i see it, we are a little bit overvalued and there is widespread optimism. you heard it in prior hour, a lot of optimism. i think quite frankly, what we need now and i hope for, cross my fingers, is about a 10% correction so we get to a level where stocks once again rep represent good value. i have a problem on value now. >> do you have value, jim, do you agree or not? >> i don't agree. i don't agree. i think what is most likely going to happen in the market, and i know a market up 12% in two month says very difficult to do. i think the most likely scenario as this market keeps grinding higher, keeps grinding higher, tempting people on the sideline.

i think the biggest theme here is sideline money that could be put to work by people who feel that they are missing the prty. we grind higher with a couple occasional skips higher. am i nervous? absolutely i am. the vix, as you've seen, rallied the last two days. even with a mark wet with a plu sign on it. i think you can play and be protected. >> you may a call on the s&p. we basically fulfilled that. what are you doing in the market right now? >> sue, we are booking profit. right now in chicago, these traders love the slug fest between icahn and ackman. sweet jesus that was entertaining. right now, the bears clearly want to pull back but the bulls need a pull back. >> kenny, weigh? >> that's exactly what will happen.

i think you want it see if your long-term investor. you want to be in the game but buy them at cheaper prices. let the market come in. i think it is going to. i think the fact that we struggled at 1500, tell you that the ma market is exhausted. i think on any pull back, i would be jumping in. >> all right, guys. we will pick this up again in just a little bit. ty, down to you. >> goldman sachs ceo was on squawk box this morning from davos. we will get the panel to react in a minute. but mary thompson is here first with highlight. hi, mary. >> hi, tyler. if you talk to blankfein he talks about the economy. >> i think there is room for optimism in europe but not as much as the u.s. the place in a much better position right now is the united states with housing stabilizing, probably going back up, with the amount of cash on the side, with

blessings of the energy situation that none of us anticipated but somehow it is just happened. and low interest rates. i think the u.s. environment is very good. >> blankfein says improving outlook for the u.s. and other economies bodes well for goldman sachs long-term prospects. >> the things we do, all the things we do, correlate with growth. we advise people on acquisitions when they have the confidence to acquire things. finance them when they do things. manage risky assets which people only put money in risky assets when they are confident. so i think the economy is growing and i think the cycle is long so i'm optimistic. >> he estimates that as the cycle improves, so should goldman's one of most profitable businesses. a business that's been lackluster recently. >> the conditions are quite right for very low level of interest rates. the fact that industries are consolidating. a lot of opportunities overseas.

and i tell you, everybody in his own industry tracks a lot of stuff. we track m & a as a percentage of gdp. it is a much lower level than we should be at this part of the recovery and i'm kind of at a loss to explain why. >> blankfein did say buyers and sellers seem to disagree on the value of certain assets and that is helping keep m & a in check as well. >> mary, thank you very much. now back to the fight of the century you saw here on cnbc. carl icahn and bill ackman. and scotty was in the middle of it. tee it up for us. >> it was quite a battle for these two hedge fund titans. still battling over a decade's old deal. manity racings in a courtroom which bill ackman ended up winning. it seems as though not all is forgotten from these two men. more recently the argument is on

herbalife. which bill ackman has taken a very noted and public short position against the market speculated that carl icahn has taken a long position against bill ackman for part of the reason that he says he just doesn't like the guy. let's listen. >> i was concerned about dealing with carl icahn because he doesn't have a good reputation for being a handshake guy. >> carl icahn was speaking out against bill ackman again about that early deal that the two had which ended up going to court on multiple occasions. let's listen to carl icahn's side of the story. >> with if we just set an example that, on wall street, if you want a friend, get a dog. >> so sue, you don't see this everyday. that's for sure. >> no, you don't. and i don't think these guys will be doing eggs benedict at the regency any time soon. >> if they do, i would love to be there. scotty, stay with us. let's talk about this.

jim kramer is here, herb greenburg, kelly is with us at the stock exchange. jim we have been in this business a long time. have you ever seen anything like that? i haven't. >> no. shocked. this is it, you blew out the brakes, you did everything right. scott wapner, congratulations, and you did not bully him. this is amazing journalism. that's why a lot of us got into this business. >> you're nice to say that, guys. these guys, when have you ever seen two titans like there going head to head, so publicly on live television. >> twice i saw that o not frazier. >> you know, herbing with it strikes me, it became so personal. and the guiding tenant in investing when you're a hedge fund manager is don't be emotional about your trades. take the emotion out. >> if you want to -- >> they sure didn't. >> in this case, icahn was

clearly the emotional one. at the very end there was a great exchange where ackman said, carl, you're free to make a bid for the company, meaning herbalife, if you want to. and icahn said, you don't tell me what i'm free to do. that summed up the type of exchanges you had. back and forth, back and forth, where it was just remarkable to see this sort of icahn-esque. >> there is no easy way to be an activist. you will piss a whole lot of people off if you come out with the position as bill ackman did as publicly as he did if you are on the other side of the trade. both of these guys have been through enough rodeos to know and have sharp elbows and thrown their weight around, there is no easy way to do that job. >> why didn't, icahn, by the way, i've known him for years, he is a handshake guy. >> he is good on his word? >> yeah. any of never heard anyone say it

isn't. but why didn't carl icahn say, i like herbalife for these three reasons and this is why it is going up. why didn't he give us three reasons. >> i don't think it was about herbalife for icahn. it was about ackman. >> exactly. this is my question, in terms of whether he is handshake guy or not, i will leave that to jim. but i think in the past of people thinking they had him figured out, chesapeake energy, an active investor, asked him to make changes, pay down debt, et cetera. then he gets involved again. suddenly it gets ugly. jim, you know the story well. he ends up going active and clashing with the company in some cases and eventually makes a good investment. >> aubrey says on camera to me, on and off camera that icahn did a lot of good things. >> i rec mcclendon thinking they were friends. add breakfast, maybe at the regency. >> you are talking about a

company where i suspect research was done. i do not believe, looking into herbalife for ten months, we have a documentary, selling the american dream, own cnbc.cop, little self promotion there. but doing the amount of research that company takes, you can't do that in a few days. i think the point ackman made, is this appears to be just a trade. and as others on wall street, in e-mails to me today, other hedge fund managers saying -- >> i thought that is a plausible argument. he t was brief web wrote it up -- >> who thinks that -- >> he's out. >> i don't think's he out. >> i don't think he's out. >> there are hedge fund managers who say, that shows his true colors and that could be construed, if you're engaged in that wab manipulative. >> ty, come on in. >> didn't folks find out whether icahn has been long on the stock. >> scott pressed him. >> boy did scott press him.

>> he thought he was being bullied for being asked that. >> booker got involved. this thing was the end -- we were making sausage on tv. >> we are now being described as having just broadcast the best moment in financial tv history. so, again, scott -- >> i think it was. but it goes to the fact that these long running and long simmering disputes between these guys is getting in the way of their making -- >> let's not forget as well, the other take-away, is the exchange or commentary that bill ackman had about his relationship with dan loeb about the herbalife thing. >> before we get to that, i don't know if this is getting in the waive making good financial decisions. what do you say, scott? mang said i think they are bothg the bully pulpit. nobody is better at that than ackman. that's why he makes a four-hour

presentation to 300 investors saying why this is a great short case and icahn fights back. >> that's why i said everyone in the position of being an activist investor at some point. whether it is einhorn or icahn or anybody else, a number of conferences are held in las vegas, new york and wherever else around this country every year on multiple occasions and they unveil their long or short ideas to the world. they are well schooled on how this plays out. this has become more personal than you would otherwise see. >> by the way, scott, which is interesting, because ackman says icahn did the same thing with shorts in the early 2000s, with trinity even conseco. >> where does it go from here? we saw it play out here on our air, certainly, but what happens next between these two guys? >> what i've been waiting to see is how much stock that michael johnson's ceo is buying back. is that buy back real? will loeb walk it up?

will herbalife stand behind it underneath, take it up, and create the short squeeze that you may regard as violation of the 34 act. but i'm waiting for that to happen versus the next shoe that we keep hearing from -- >> there is a great point here. he says if somebody comes in, they buy back shares, if someone came in to buy the company, the issue is, if you had this underlying issue, still the biggest issue, because ackman raised it. i have done research that raises red flags and puts this company in a gray area. is it somehow close to operating, if not totally operating in a pyramid scheme. >> you need a government authority to come in. ackman doesn't own the government. the government is not sitting there thinking, we ought to go in and investigate this. >> how do you know? how do you know what the senators are doing right now? how do you know what attorney generals are doing right now?

>> okay. here is what i know. you need a tro. >> very quickly. we are going to take a break and come back. >> speaking of all that, i think one interesting story line that gets the government involved, is sure have you massive institutional investors, ackman, icahn, loeb and briefly einhorn getting involved. whether they are in or out now, we don't know. but they are trying to turn this into a retail trade. ackman made what he considered to be a public service announcement about the perils of being a distributor of this company. perhaps a buyer/user of the product as well as investor. and i think they are using us to get the public message out. >> we haven't even touched on mr. loeb's involvement in this whole thing. i would love to hear what he thought about the exchange on tv a few minutes go. >> this is not an honest guy, not a guy who keeps his word. this is a guy who takes advantage of little people. it's going to be amazing. and exciting.

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number one, carl is free to make a tender offer for the company. you want it bid for the company, bid for the company. >> you don't have to tell me what i'm free to do. >> okay. number one. >> all right, back at the new york stock exchange. scott wapner, you were the arthur mccanty in the ring here of frazier/ali. >> an moment you see everyday on live television. these guys clearly don't like each other. this goes back at least a decade when ackman was running his former firm. these guys did a deal together.

it didn't go as perhaps mr. icahn believed it should have gone, this particular deal they did. they litigated it. >> and they just relitigated it on our air. >> they did. a court ultimately sided with ackman. more kn but more recently this stems from ackman's short position and well publicized short position in herbalife in which he called a pyramid scheme. the market has taken the other side of that trade -- >> but you kept asking him and he declined to answer. >> i think you know, you could surmise certain things, the market will continue to sperk late and the point is, it is irrelevant really, whether he was on the other side of it. the fact of the matter is, bill mang is still short this company. he brought in about the question i asked about dan loeb who runs third point, another big hedge fund guy who has taken a very public position on the other side of ackman as well. >> kenny is with us. kenny you were pointing out that

the stock of herbalife was -- we add chart of it t there. spiking higher. >> spiking every time icahn was making -- >> you have been down here a lot. have you ever seen this kind ref action on the floor? >> part of what was so great about it, is it was taking place here on the floor. you were here on the floor, the group was on the floor. guys around the room, just enthralled with this conversation going back and forth. can you hear the televisions turned up. can you hear it echoing in the room. i thought it was great tv. but these guys need to sit down with a dish of pasta and glass of wine, and i'm happy it cook it for them. >> we will cook it here. i guarantee you. >> they ain't going to sit at the same table. >> you're a heck of a cook too. so sue, back to you. >> kenny, if they agree to go to dinner with you and you cook, i will agree to be your sious

chef. gentlemen, the offer is out there. we will take to you dinner or cook you diner. dan loeb, his position, he was brought up in the conversation between ackman and icahn. weigh in, herb. >> i always had an opinion on this. because when dan loeb got involved, the way i look at it, this is a case where he saw a short squeeze at a very low price. but in my opinion, he is not a fan of bill ackman. when i saw so many people short sellers, people i know, have known for showers. people short herbalife, turned around and went long herbalife, because when ackman got involved they just didn't like it. didn't like the way he did the presentation and they did this, i hate bill mang, trade. >> so despite big wins and credibility in some quarters, has bill ackman had his jump the shark moment? >> again, i have to say this very importantly, i've done a tre mend out amount of research myself. i saw his presentation laid out

in a tremendous way that others have never done on this company or industry. so i believe actually, he knows a heck of a lot more about this industry and the company than anyone else -- >> herb, i -- herb, have you spoken with loeb at length about how much he knows or doesn't know about the amount of research he's done. he calls ackman's accusations and reiterated that they are preposterous. dan loeb doesn't take on deals just to have egg thrown on his face. >> i must say, speaking of track records, loeb had a hell of a year or two. his 2012 was terrific. >> dan loed doesn't talk to me these days. he used to, but doesn't any more. look at the new york post article. the article point owed out that third point is or was a short new skin. so it shows that sort of someone there knows something about multilevel marketing but not from the long side. what does that say?

>> 8.24% stake is pretty significant. loeb is putting some serious dough into this. >> the mother of all short squeezes. >> more subsequent to this, i think what really matters sheer that you may know herbalife. bill ackman may know herbalife. i, like others, including dan loeb, understand stock investing and you can be very -- >> you are talking about a trade. >> no, it is not a trade. how about a trade that can make you billions? when you go to the bank, do you think -- hold it, this is a trade. i'm not taking that money. >> this is a duration, isn't it? you think it will move because of technicals, versus you think the company is heading for zero. >> i was shorted versy bank. one of the greatest banks ever. i bought in and it went to zero but i bought for the people of the public. i came in one day and instead of

being short a million shares, i was flat. >> can i throw herb a bone here? >> it works like that. >> i know how markets work. i also understand that in the end fundamental kes bear out. >> not if the company is taken over. >> if this company were to be taken over -- >> the company was putting -- illness in -- biggest joke of the company. i lost a fortune. and troproctor bid on that. it was a horrible quarter. >> if this company is taken over, the issues raised don't go away and whoever makes that purchase will have that underlined for them. >> that makes jim's points about the mechanics of the stock. >> absolutely. >> but ackman's points about the way the company is structured. >> it is imperfect. the short seller doesn't -- the short seller has a statistical disadvantage. it is like a home field advantage on the part of the long versus short. because you have to borrow the

stock and these guys, if they all hate him, they can take the stock out of the vault and make things happen that probably shouldn't happen. >> here is why this discussion is relevant. you've got ackman making a passionate organized argument as to why this is the best short they've ever seen. then icahn taking them on, getting personal about it, defending herbalife along the way. loeb getting in and defending herbalife along wait. so if they are in a technical trade because they see an opportunity to make money versus ackman with this passionate belief in his investment thesis, those are two different things. yet they are both speaking passionately about the pros and cons about the company. and that they believe in it versus for the short term. >> if somebody else, and i have said this on air before, had it been someone like steve, at a conference, i believe wall street's vision of the issues at

herbalife would have been very different. >> let me ask you, jim, what do you think dan loeb's position is for being? this position? >> being a hedge, a legitimate company. i had michael johnson on my show, maybe a half dozen times. i believe there are small business people that good out of business all the time. he is trying to encourage small business. i'm saying the business model has been used for many years. is it a pyramid scheme? that's in the eye of the law. unless ackman gets the law involved, i think loeb can win. i think loeb can win -- >> he can win but he can win if he gets out by the time the trade occurs unless there stakeover and then the stock -- by the way -- wait a minute. if there a take over, ackman can also win. both of them could win. >> this never puts tech nicks on. we put technicians on everyday. many times they are right. what do they know about the company? they pride themselves in not

knowing. take that money. this t is incredible when you go to the bank with the winnings. oh, no you did that because it was reverse head and shoulders. no! >> i think that is an interesting dynamic here. quick word. at herbalife investor conference, you were there as well. i talked to michael johnson afterwards. there is an air of confidence, considering how they are under assault. they did not make a point by point rebuttal of ackman. didn't even try. they addressed some points. they talked about why they are an pyramid scheme. they talked about the science and attractiveness of their products. that's it. johnson was not going to get into the dirt with ackman. >> because he is not a billionaire. it takes billionaires to have no dignity whatsoever. >> we will take a quick break on that note. when we come back on "power lunch," we will continue the discussion and bring the whole group back. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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let's bring you up-to-date on what is happening in the markets? gold prices have been set. let's go to sharon tracking the market. >> closing at a bearish level.

the fact that gold is closed for the second straight day below 1675, below the 200-day moving average, traders say is very bearish for the market. we are looking at cold also experiencing options expiration next week which could add it traders readjusting portfolios right now. we are also watching palladium because that's metal with the big gainer. there are also issues for supplies in russia and that's what traders are watching. they are watching palladium catch up with platinum. platinum had the best month of all commodity, at about 10% in the last month and palladium is catching up. back to you. >> thank you very much, sharon. let's go to mary thompson on the floor of the new york stock exchange for a quick update on the market. mary? >> hi, tyler. vibration is still down here from the battle of the titans you guys are looking at. the positive tone is maintained despite continued weakness in

apple which dropped to 52-week low. the nasdaq is move together upside. the blue chip index up 55 points and proctor and gamble with the numbers followed by j.p. morgan and better than expected earnings. revenues were a little light. home builders higher, can despite december new home sales coming in below expectations. keep in mind, november were revised higher and for the year, overall sales were very strong. again we want it repeat, we have seen this over the last week. it continues. record levels for dow transportation average, they continue today as well as record levels for the russell 2000. dow is up, looks like it will make it, what, 11 out of 12. tyler, back to you. >> seema mody following big movers there, including apple of course. seema? >> definitely, apple, tyler. investors feeling the pain here. . keep in mind the growth fund has been 7% of assets in apple shares, that's according to

morningstar. when you look at its market cap, sitting at $413 billion, that allowing exxonmobil to reclaim title as most valuable company in the world. aside from apple, we do have a couple of tech stocks in the green that deserve your attention. take a look at a chip equipment maker, kla-tecnor. the down in the 5 to 10% in the calendar year of 2013. other 52-week highs, look at netflix. surprising move here. some traders speculating after yesterday's monster move that street would perhaps book profits. but we are seeing shares of netflix extend its gains. ebay hitting a fresh 52-week high. some big movers, a positive note out of piper jaffrays, helping price line as well as expedia trade higher in today's trade. back over to you, tyler aeb sue. >> thank you, seema, very much. let's check the treasury market and see where yields are going as we head into the weekend.

we did see a move to the down side in terms of price performance earlier this morning. right new we have yields on the ten-year trading at 1.93%. remember we started the week at about 1.8% we are now at 3.27% on the bond. quick break. when we come back wp we will continue our discussion of the prize fight between bill ackman and carl icahn. we're back in two. we've completely integrated every step of the process, making it easier to try filters and strategies... to get a list of equity options... evaluate them with our p&l calculator... and execute faster with our more intuitive trade ticket. i'm greg stevens and i helped create fidelity's options platform. it's one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account. ♪

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a huge big panel ready to talk all about it. also as the mark set nearing the record high all over again, what do you do? buy in as well or bailout? all those things coming up at the top of the hour. back to you. >> cnbc.com has the full ackman/icahn. >> what a rare event to have these two guys going toe to toe. really animosity that existed for about a decade in a deal that was made almost ten years ago. that bill ackman ultimately won, went to court several times with carl icahn over a deal, the court cited with bill ackman. apparently, though, there is still that animosity festering most recently. it relates to the herbalife short that bill ackman has taken so publicly. >> i was concerned with dealing

with carl icahn because he does not have a good reputation for being a handshake guy. if you notice the deal written, i insist it is kept under ten pages. i told a lawyer, i wanted an example. they said, no, don't put an example in. you can use words but i want to use an example. i want to be sure there is no confusion here. when carl said this is a merger. the company called bid a hundred dollars a share for the company. the company hired morgan stanley to sell the company. carl raised his bid to $120 ra share. the company made a deal to sell it for a cost of capital lower than carls. they got $136 a share for the company. the transaction is structured as a cash out merger. stick with me. carl has been me lining my reputation. it is important to get to the fact. >> let me start out with my history with this guy. ways minding my own business and in 2003 i get a call from this ackman guy. and i'm telling you, he is like

the cry baby in the school yard. i went to a tough school in queens. used to beat up the little jewish boys and he was like one of these little jewish boys crying that world was taking advantage of him. he was almost sobbing. in my office talking about how i could help him. and you know, like in the old saw mill, you roux the day i met the guy. >> well, money can make good bed mates on enemies. scott, you have done a lot of good educating about the wisdom of individuals following the so-called smart money. and here are two individuals who you would certainly describe or many would describe as smart money. ackman and eye khan. they come to a collision here most recently over apparently herbalife. is herbalife a stalk that any

individual investors, given the nature of the clay in it right few, ought to be looking at, at all? >> no. absolutely a great point, tyler. you've got to stay away from this thing. i would no more wander into the herbalife field as i would wander between the germans and the french and british in world war i. the first day of the sun, you are on the first day of the sun. fire going on from every direction. please, individuals, stay away from this one. this is about ego. >> also, jim, and you know, inity wholeness i guess is an attack on the modern day short sellers mo. these iconic hedge fund guy webs whether ackman or icahn or loel or chenos for that matter, it is quite common place for them to go in a public forum and announce to the world that they are short a company and this is

sometimes the residual impact of doing just that, don't you think? >> look, i have always felt that ackman is right on this. people come on air all the time and say they like the stock of, you know, just pick something. michael kors. and the reason they like michael kors is because they will report a fabulous weekend next week and goldman upgraded it this week. and if they don't report a fabulous quarter and goldman is wrong, no one will hear from him again and he will be back next time. people come on the air and recommend longs. i think it should be the same and you can recommend shorts. >> let me ask you, jim, you spent a long career and very successful one in this world. take me inside the trading room. where you have had a history with somebody who is on the other side after bet. have you ever taken a position because you felt, one's ego can get into the things where you felt, i'm going to the other

side so i can kick his ass. >> i felt that someone on the other side was an idiot. and i have taken the other side. but always did research. because what happens is that, the moment you're wrong, then you lose all sort of ground and you say, wow, okay, i remember i hated that guy. he was a total more ron. i saw him come on cnbc pch i despise him and the ground he walks on. i'm going to short his stock. en hoes up three points opinion then i say, why did i short him? who is that guy? you have to base it on fundamentals. >> we didn't even get a chance to talk about the lawyers. >> where are the lawyers? >> we are breaking new vocabulary here, today. >> how about a booker by the name of max who did set up a thunder dome not unlike mad max and the thunder dome. two enter, one leaves. >> thanks, a million, jim. i know you will be on "street signs" as well. >> all right. >> thank you, scotty, as well. terrific job. >> thanks, sue. . thank you. >> we will switch gears and talk

juniper. up 12% year to date and big percentage move in today's trading session. up almost 4% on today's session. ceo is going to weigh in o when we come back from a quick break. ♪ [ male announcer ] when we built the cadillac ats from the ground up to be the world's best sport sedan... ♪ ...people noticed. ♪ the all-new cadillac ats -- 2013 north american car of the year. ♪ for a limited time, take advantage of this exceptional offer on the all-new cadillac ats.

welcome back to "power lunch." take a look at shares of juniper networks. better than 3% right now. actually, 3.5% at 2223. kevin johnson ceo of juniper networks joins us. nice to have you here, mr. johnson. >> thank you. good to be here. >> what is the driver of the quarter that made it so significantly better than quarters past? >> we finished 2012 on a good note. in many ways driven by an uptick in spending by service providers for more routing infrastructure to carry the growth and internet traffic. >> a lot of people say that if dell is now going to be out of the picture it a certain extent if it does go private that that is a real opportunity for his company. how would you leverage that position? >> we have many competitors, certainly dell is a competitor in the enterprise for switching and you know, i think even if though go private, i would expect they will stay focused on their networking business as part of their enterprise push.

i don't necessarily think that changes things for us. we have to continue to stay focused on innovating for technology and the way we reach out and win market share. >> how do you do that? how do you plan to grow your market share at this point? >> it starts with the investment we make in r & d. we are a company that believes in organic innovation and we have a significant amount. if you look at our portfolio, that helps us in q4, we have a strong security and we are looking to close gaps so it has to start with great product. >> mr. johnson, as you know, we are a little short of time. formally, i would like to invite you back next quarter. we hope you will spend more time with us here on "power lunch." thank you so much. >> thank you, sue. >> ty, what a show, what a day

on the network for cnbc. >> market moving higher. dow up about .04 of a percent. we will continue with "street signs" after this short break. have a good weekend, sue.