and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your rheumatologist about humira, to help relieve your pain and stop further joint damage.

tonight's "american greed" criminal burned, he was unstoppable until the feds caught him in the act. all new tonight, i'll be watching, hope you will be too. magnum hunter disappointing 10k delay. give me a break. don't come on the show if you can't file the stuff. salesforce, i think it's real. there's always a bull market somewhere, i promise to try to find it for you here on "mad money."

i'm jim cramer, see you tomorrow. good evening, i'm larry kudlow, this is the "kudlow report." you know my view, even modest spending cuts and limited government are good for growth. it's a free market, private sector tax cut. that's what i think. despite all the false fear mongering by the administration with their budget cuts, that's going to come gradually, you'll see. nonessential accounts will go first, there's a ten-year window for full completion. and the stock market, by the way, has reacted well to all of this and also, did you know that while the government may take out $85 billion in spending authority, the federal reserve puts in $85 billion every single month. so, folks, please d panic tomorrow morning. the "kudlow report" starts right now.

first up, yeah, we know the sequester is going to happen tomorrow, we know the worst threats and warnings from the obama administration are empty scare tactics. they do not stand up to fact-checking. for instance, listen to education secretary arne duncan. >> they sort of act like there's some sort of magical thing that i could do or superintendent or principal could do. kids are going to get hurt. that's just reality. >> yeah, right. but first he said 40,000 teachers would be laid off. then it was 17,000 teachers, but even this statement's got four pinnoccios. so far, not a single teacher is in line to lose his or her job. and there's eric holder also making scare mongering positions about violent criminals going free. >> the reality is, there is going to be harm, there is going to be pain and the american people will be less safe. that's a fundamental reality that people have got to get

their heads around. >> well, i beg your pardon, there is not one bit of evidence that has to be true. in fact, all of these scare tactics and melodrama and predictions are not working for obama. you know what, even the media is beginning to turn against him. there's been a shrug in reaction to janet napolitano releasing illegal immigrant detainees for no reason, and she may have broken the law in doing so. transportation secretary ray lahood, he's not much getting the reaction to threatening laying off air controllers. that's even though his own budget and his workforce are greater today than they were a few years ago. air traffic was heavier, we did fine. all right. just my take. i think this is all just nutty stuff. but joining me now, our guest panelist for the evening, democratic strategist jimmy williams and cnbc contributor sarah fagan.

sarah, what's your take on this scare mongering? from political standpoint, is obama losing his creds here? >> he runs a risk of losing his credibility on this. and day after day, we see administration officials going out and scaring the american people as you pointed out. yet, the numbers don't comport. we're talking about a percent. this year, 2% overall of the budget. you ask american families how much -- what percentage they've had a cut from their budget, it's a lot greater than 2% over the last couple of years. >> every darn business in america has had to make cuts like that. every business. large, small or otherwise. heck, jpmorgan laid off 17,000 workers and no one's happy about that. not jpmorgan, obviously not the families, no one's happy. but sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do. our government never does it. now it is and obama won't let it happen. >> listen, you're not going to get an argument from this democrat. i completely think the sequester

is fabulous. let's do it. >> you do? >> republicans voted for it, president signed it into law. john boehner said i've got 98% of what i wanted. i'm pretty sure it wasn't the sequester. if that's the case, let's all sit down in this bed we've made up and lie down in it. >> let's not forget they hash this out in 2011. they went through what cuts to do and what cuts not to do. it wasn't like this has been sprung on anybody in this process. >> absolutely -- >> this is an interesting point. i'm going to call it your wing, you're kind of a pro-business democrat. >> very pro-business, yes. >> why is it that your wing of the party isn't stepping up? why is it you've got these guys in the cabinet, for example. take arne duncan. >> yes. >> he's a smart guy, decent education. >> yes. >> not bad. why is he caving into this thing? why would ray lahood say what he's saying? his own inspector general told them there were 100 zombie air towers that should've been taken

down years ago and they're still standing and in some cases still staffed out. and we do not need that money. where's a ray lahood? what's wrong with him? >> these cabinet secretaries are doing what they're supposed to be doing, which is go out and be mouthpieces for the administration. when george bush was president, your former boss, our former president when they ran around scaring the living hell out of the country out of this terrorist attack and this terrorist attack and if we don't fund up and do the department of homeland security et cetera, et cetera and scaring voting for tax cuts, the whole world was going to fall down. i think there's plenty of blame and plenty of politics to be put out there on this. i don't blame these secretaries for doing what they're doing. my problem with this is this, they voted -- all these members voted for it. the president signed it into law, august 2011. >> it was his idea. >> yes, and boehner loved it. so why is everyone running around acting like the sky is falling? >> i don't get it. >> business is fabulous. >> here's a thing that's interesting to me, republicans are almost shell-shocked because of the debates and the fiscal

cliff and the election that you see some of these more moderate republicans afraid to stand up for spending cuts. >> you saw one go down to newport news with obama. >> i've got to get out of here. i'm going to say to that point, what else is new. republicans have done better on this than i thought. now, let's switch gears, same topic. what will the sequester do to the economy? okay. it's coming, no question about that, it begins tomorrow. what will it do to the economy? here now two ace cnbc contributors, jared bernstein and jimmy p. there's so much leeway and flexibility. i don't care what the president is willing to accept. you have these budget accounts and you have subaccounts and you can change the funding you can reallocate the priorities, you can affect the timing. in other words, jimmy, why can't people say this is going to be

done gradually over a longer period of time which is, in fact, the truth? why do we have to have the scare among eri mongering. >> it is the truth. there's a lot of discretion, you can cut sort of the administrative budgets first and then work your way to the operations budget. i think this is a great opportunity for democrats to show, guess what, they can run government, run it lean, show they could actually run something before they decide to try to run 20% of the american economy. this is a nice proof of concept that democratic governance can be efficient. here, go run the government for the discretionary spending for less money and have the country not fall apart. a wonderful challenge. >> all right, jared, think of this. you all spend about $1 trillion in government spending stimulus back in 2009. that didn't work. now you want to take out -- now the whole congress, i believe, wants to take out as jimmy said $44 billion in cash outlays.

let's try that. let's try something different for a change. now's the moment. >> there's so much i have to cover. let me try to be quick here. first of all, 44 billion is the decline in fiscal year 2013. over the calendar year, the estimate is that -- and this is from the cbo and macroeconomic advisers nonpartisan shops is that this will shave .5% off gdp growth this year. now, you know that gdp for the fourth quarter was flat, but if you look at the year-over-year numbers, which are more accurate, i think. gdp is growing at about 1.5%. now, do you think that is an economy that can afford .5% drag? i don't. look, i agree this is not cataclysmic, the sky's not going to fall, it's not going to be nearly as happy dappy as you say. >> that model is basically the same model that said the stimulus was going to give us 4% growth and 5% unemployment. >> the stimulus --

>> it was wrong on the upside -- >> you want to have a stimulus argument? do you want to have a stimulus debate? i don't. >> i'm sure you don't. >> jared, it's sara -- >> it's been well established that the stimulus boosted gdp growth by a couple of percent and saved a few million -- >> i do not think that -- >> help me out here, jimmy. >> a great debate. sara has a question. >> hey, jared. >> nice to see you. >> help me understand something. >> sure. >> the budget is going to be $15 billion more. even with the sequester, yet how is it now that our border is going to be unpatrolled and tens of thousands of people are not going to have child care, help me out with that. >> sure, it mean, i think some of that has been exaggerated. somehow it's gone from cuts to like agencies shutting down. that's not going to happen. but, you know there are things that happen right away. right away because they have to cut these checks, right away 4 million people will get a cut in

their unemployment checks. that's baked in the cake. starting about mid-april, you're going to see furloughs, furloughs at the faa, tsa, among meat inspectors and that's going to slow down production. >> we don't have to have meat inspectors, those are decisions that the agencies can make. they have a lot of latitude. but if you're telling me -- i've got to get in there. you're telling me furloughs, aisle telling you, jared, that the government is vastly overstaffed, okay. and furloughs are the beginning of a downsizing of the civilian part of the federal government, and that includes the civilian part of the defense department which is long overdue jimmy pethokoukis. nobody wants to lose anything in the federal government which numbers have expanded so much -- >> that's not true. >> it's time we take a look at this because every business, small or large in this country has had to adjust to a little bit of austerity. >> for the first time -- >> i'm asking jimmy. >> efficiencies. >> jimmy.

>> not just spending more money, but efficiencies. let's see if they can do it. >> jimmy, i have a question for you, we now have 4.1 years of an obama administration, we had eight years of george bush. during the eight years of george bush, can you name a single spending bill that george bush vetoed? >> you know what? i can't -- >> okay. during the four years -- >> that any president vetoed. >> well, i can. >> except for reagan. >> reagan vetoed a lot of bills also grew the size of government. >> shrunk the size of government -- >> let's talk about -- >> i just want to be clear -- >> that's not the issue right now. >> no -- >> jimmy -- >> can the u.s. economy afford these minor spending cuts going forward without tanking the economy? >> put it all in perspective. >> without tanking the economy. >> i want some perspective here. i want to make sure that everybody's clear about the world that we live in. >> all right, larry -- >> george bush did not veto -- >> with all due respect -- >> two points. >> george bush -- by the way, george bush should've done something like this. >> yes, he should've, but he

didn't. and no one cried foul for eight years. >> criticize -- >> let me make two points -- >> i want to challenge your numbers. not the $44 billion or the $60 billion for the year, i want to say to you in either case, i'll use the full $85 billion which is the budget spending authority. you are talking about .25% of gross domestic product. that's all it is. you're talking about probably less than 2% of the $3.6 trillion budget. so therefore, i'm going to argue, jared, that you and your numbers are mistaken. just as the stimulus spending didn't workoost the economy, these small reductions will not work to damage the economy. that's what the stock market's been telling us, and i believe you're going to see the economic numbers, they're not going to be great, but we're not going to dip down below 2%. >> first of all, your -- >> no, it isn't. whatever that means. >> gdp -- >> what does that mean?

>> screwed up. >> it means famished. >> gdp is about $16 trillion. >> that's correct. >> so 1% is $160 billion, half of that is about $80, so 85 is .5% of gdp. >> that's what i said and if you use $44 billion, it's .25%. that's my point. we are talking about a tiny amount of money. >> okay. >> a tiny amount of money here. >> i don't think, i don't thi think -- i don't think that .5% of gdp is a cataclysm. i agree with you, but i don't think it's something that a 1.6% gdp growth economy can take. the budget deficit has come down by half. i don't see how president obama is a killer spender. spending has gone up .6% between 2009 and 2012. larry, what you want to see and what i want to see are vertical cuts in the budget, not these horizontal across the board ones. >> i'll take it any way i can

get it. jimmy p., i want you to finish this off. what's your final take on the growth story? what's the economy going to look like in the next six to nine months? as this thing phases in, and i want to emphasize this, it's going to phase in gradually. it's going to phase in gradually. what's the economic meaning? >> listen, i'm more concerned about the $60 billion in tax increases, including raising investment taxes by 60%. i'm far more worried about that than these minor cuts and discretionary spending. and if the economy does weaken, trust me, the white house, they'll forget about the tax hikes and only blame -- >> of course. and i want to add one thing, by if way, even while $85 billion in spending authority will be lowered, the federal reserve puts in $85 billion of new money every single month. >> they're very different pots. >> yeah. >> you know what the difference is? the fed's monetary policy is more powerful than the government's spending policy. i'll leave it with that. jim pethokoukis and jared

bernstein. now, as you know, i've been stock market bullish on the sequester. it's free market economics and you know what? i final lip fouly found a profe investor who agrees with me. i've got to tell you, i really liked michelle obama's "wall street journal" op-ed today that favors businesses who are improving our health. that's right. michelle nailed it and i'm going to talk about it later on in the show. and folks, have you seen this video? this is not some ordinary air traveler having a tantrum, we've got the whole story later in the program. check this out. whoa. whoa. look at this. this guy is one teed off guy. don't forget free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. that includes limited government. and we're going to be fine. i'll be back i'm kudlow. ♪

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superderivatives introduces dgx. data done differently. not today, no all-time high on wall street today, but markets still in rally mode and my next guest says the sequester cuts are fueling the rally or at least part of the story. let's hear this. stock trader and financial radio

host ross kaminski wrote it in the "american spectator." welcome back. >> hey, thanks. >> i love this, but i want you to explain yourself. how is it the sequester, the big bad evil sequester that's going to lay off hundreds of thousands of people as jared bernstein told us and destroy the economy. how is this helping the stock market? >> you know, i think what it is, it comes down to the big picture about, as you well know, larry, the first time there was a decent improvement in the unemployment rate came in 2010 right off republicans took control of the house of representatives. they couldn't get any good pro-free market legislation through the senator the white house, but at least they could stop the worst of what obama was injecting into our economies kind of economic poison. so it's not so much that i think the sequester is a huge positive, but it's just so much better than anything else that obama and the democrats would replace it with. >> well, the point that i --

>> i think that's what's going on. >> the point i made night after night after night on this show regarding the sequester is modest spending reductions, okay, limited government are good for the economy. they lower the government share of gdp, i think that's a big plus, i think it frees up resources in the private sector. and i guess, ross, my question is, doesn't the stock market see that? doesn't it understand that? we're actually moving the ball in the right direction. >> it absolutely does. but on the other hand, i think they also realize that this is very small compared to the kind of cuts that you and i would implement if we were in charge. this is nothing. and the actual spending if you had a middle class family that was spending $3,500 a month, this is asking them to cut $40 or $60 a month out of that budget. all of these scare tactics, i think the administration is massively overplayed its hand and i think the public is now coming around to realize what the stock market already realized that this is

insignificant really. >> i think profits are more important than sequester. i actually think monetary policy is more important than the sequester. but i guess the point is. >> much more. >> you believe that the sequester has not been an impediment. what you're saying is, if i get this right, if the sequester was going to be the catastrophe that president obama and his cabinet secretaries were saying, stocks would be selling off on a day-to-day basis instead of rid rising, is that it? >> i would also add, i also looked at the defense industry, which would be the group of stocks you would think might be hardest hit by all of this. and they're up since the -- simpson-bowles commission failed at the end of march of last year, the industry, the defense industry is up just as much as the s&p, they're both up 7%. >> why is that? >> even there in the worst -- >> why is that? why do you think that is? >> i think they realize -- they being professional investors,

realize that this is, it's not stepping on the brake of government spending. it's just very slightly letting off the accelerator. it's barely significant. and when they get around to, you know, putting more legislation through, they'll make sure that the defense department is funded. i think -- >> that's correct. that's exactly what's going to happen. the march 27th continuing resolution, which is the next step in this drama is going to basically allow the front line readiness stuff in the defense department to be okay. i think that's right. jimmy, do you have a question for ross? >> on that issue, what for a government shutdown? ross, i have a question for you, on december 31st -- >> do you buy that? government shutdown? >> no, we're not going to have a government shutdown. >> on december 31st last year, january 1st of this year, the president signed into law a massive tax increase that the republicans helped pass. how is the market doing? >> the market's doing fine and i think that the take on that is

much like -- >> in spite of all of those massive tax increases -- >> let him answer. >> the market's doing okay. but not nearly as well as it would be doing if we had a president who understood economics and free markets. >> i got it. >> how much below today is the market than it was at the all-time high? >> not much. >> right. >> so what's the problem? i'm just trying to -- if today is february 28th, so it's been two months, we've had two months out of 12-month year to figure out wall street has had two months of 12 months to figure out the tax cuts didn't doom the economy. i'm trying to figure out -- >> the problem -- >> why isn't the market below 9,000 at this point? >> because they realize that republicans are going to keep democrats from spending as much money as democrats want to spend. >> actually -- >> and with the tax hike that was just passed, okay, it's bad but we know what it is. with massive spending, what you're really talking about is future tax hikes that are going to be burdening our kids, we

don't know what they are, the market hates uncertainty, at least with that tax hike, the reason that the market did okay is that it could have been worse. >> right. >> well, should've, could've, would've. >> the original obama tax hike was worse. >> right. >> on capital gains, dividends, inheritance -- >> but in '93, when bill clinton raised taxes on everyone in the country, what happened? >> market rallied after he cut the capital gains tax. >> exactly. >> when reagan raised capital gains? >> and when bush cut the capital gains tax, as well. >> right. >> but let's not forget, you look at some of these earnings reports and you see -- some of these earnings reports are showing long-term signs of weakness and the payroll tax cut that affects 70% of the population. >> the republicans wanted to expire. >> long-term, that could have an impact. >> jpmorgan, what were the quarterly profits last quarter? >> they were terrific last quarter. >> right and laid off how many people?

>> 17,000 -- >> amazing how that works. >> just what i want the government to do. >> ross, you got the story right, don't listen to jimmy, everybody knows 99.9% of the people got a permanent income tax cut. >> yes. that's right. >> secondly, the gop is stopping the bad stuff now on spending and they're driving the sequester home. and that is pretty bullish for the long run. forget the sequester for a moment. someone thinks the real threats of the economy is our already high unemployment and rising food and gas prices. very pessimistic. it's not about the sequester. you'll have to hear our next guest as he makes his point. and don't forget, i'm going to have a lot of good things to say later on about michelle obama's surprising pro-business campaign to make america healthier. that's right. she's gone pro-business better than her husband. we're going to talk about it and i'm supporting her. ♪

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well, the old saying was as general motors goes, so goes the u.s. economy. today you could really say that about walmart. does walmart's bad february sales mean the american economy is slowing down again? here now is forbes publisher rich carlguard. walmart sales problems and america. my friend rich carlgaard. tell me why.

>> i'm not pessimistic, larry. i'm cautious. i think that for the bottom half of the economy, you know, average families, the average family income in the united states is $50,000. they just got an $80 per month subtraction on their paychecks as the payroll tax hike went up, gas prices are edging toward $4 a gallon, food inflation, the u.s. department of agriculture estimates it's going to be at 4% this year, that stuff adds up. >> i think they're all good points. it's hard to rebut that. i didn't think much of the payroll tax cut, rich because it was temporary. so i don't know how much the payroll tax hike is going to matter let's say past january or february. one thing, you may have written this, i don't recall, refunds are going to be very late. you're not going to get your tax refunds until march maybe april? i think that's another killer for -- >> well, this one hurt walmart. you know, walmart typically -- the tax rep funds instead of starting in mid january only start at the very end of

january. now, this affected walmart in a seemingly trivial, but actually substantial way that a lot of people typically buy flat panel screens and party supplies in advance of the super bowl, well, they couldn't do that because they didn't get their refund checks. so, yeah, i think walmart's going to rebound a little bit. but i'm -- you know just as we had this -- the fourth quarter of 2012 was adjusted to a .1% gdp growth rate, you know, instead of seeing 2.5% to 3% growth for 2013, i now think we're going to see about 1.5%. >> i think it's hard to make a case for really strong consumer. i may not be quite as pessimistic, i agree with generic points. let's face it, you do have your food prices, you do have your gasoline prices, that stuff is running ahead of overall inflation. those are like taxes, no way around that. and job creation, rich, right, job creation, $150,000 a month, you get income out of that, it's

not fabulous. consumers are going to lag. >> well, you know, look, we have 8% unemployment or thereabouts. and we have 1.5% to 2% growth. we should be -- the u.s. economy has averaged 3% growth per year since the end of world war ii. we've had 11 recessions during that time. when we're not in recession, we should be kbrouing at growing at 4%. we'd have sub5% unemployment rates, i think the market would be at 17,000 or 18,000 instead of 14,000. >> i love that. i like that and i basically agree with that. your fundamental point is that looking at walmart and the composition of people, what we'll say middle class maybe lower middle class that walmart is really a key economic indicator. that's your basic point? >> i'd say it's one of many. it's the thing that makes me a little cautious. you know, on the other end, i was in los angeles monitoring a panel of luxury good manufacturers, and they've made a tremendous rebound. there's no question we have a two-speed economy going on right

now. i think we need both in the economy to have the right regulatory and monetary policy. i think a lot of folks are playing the dollar. i think we'll have another down leg in the market before things get fixed. >> i sincerely hope you're wrong about that. >> i do too. >> thank you very much, rich, great to see you. now -- who in the political battle over the sequester, it seems like the tide may be turning against president obama and the scare tactic democrats. but that didn't stop maxine waters from making this nutty and preposterous claim about the effect of the budget cuts. listen to this. >> we don't need to be having something like sequestration that's going to cause these job

losses over 170 million jobs that could be lost. 170 million jobs. 170 million jobs.

welcome back to the "kudlow report." i'm larry kudlow. in this half hour, first it was the oscars, now it's the editorial page of the "wall street journal" and i just love first lady michelle obama's surprise op-ed today full of praise for businesses making america healthy. that includes, by the way, the democratic demon walmart. she praised walmart. that is a breakthrough. more coming up on that later on. but first up, president's taking every opportunity to ring the alarm bells on his dire post sequester predictions. listen to him again last night speaking to the business council. >> this is going to be a big hit on the economy. and that means inevitably hundreds of thousands of people who are not going to get jobs that otherwise would get them. it means that you have fewer customers with money in their

pockets ready to buy your business, your goods and services. it means that the global economy will be weaker. >> all that because of a small cut in the budget. anyway, my question is what happens when he's wrong? when the sequester kicks in and the economy doesn't tank. that's the question. by the way, one other question for our distinguished next guest, why is the white house not only threatening bob woodward -- let's ask my next guest, veteran famed democratic strategist james carville. we are still here with jimmy williams and sara fagen. first of all, it is great to see you. >> good to see you, man. >> thank you for doing that. >> glad to do it. >> i just want to get this out of the way. the woodward story has been around for a while and he's telling a different story that the president really came up with the sequestration. >> right. >> but the one that shocked me

today was the lanny davis story. a white house senior staffer called the "washington times" and said if you continue to publish lanny's columns, you're going to lose your press credentials. what is up with that? >> first of all, i don't know about that. on bob's thing, the conservative media is all disappointed they're mad at woodward because they released it. he wouldn't threaten anybody. there was nothing to this story. nobody was threatened at all and it was all kind of whatever. now, what we're really talking about something serious here is the potential impact of this according to macroeconomic advisers, .5% off gdp, goldman says .6% of a point off gdp. i don't know if they're right or not, but what the president was saying that clip was pretty moderate compared to what the economic forecasters are saying the impact of this is going to be. >> well, okay. i don't know if the forecasters are going to be right or wrong

either. >> i don't either. >> the question i have, james, is this about economics or is this about politics? a lot of people are saying that the president are setting the republican party up so if there are any consequences he's going to keep ripping into the gop in order to take the house in 2014. is this about economics in the budget or politics? >> well, the cbo says that it's 750,000 jobs, the best forecasters in the country say .5% of gdp. i guess what he's saying is, look, if these guys go through with this, there's negative consequences to it. not just the president saying that. do we know, are economic forecasters wrong a lot of times? it's not an idea to think this is going to have an adverse effect. the austerity is losing all around the world.

>> spending and limited government is going to help the private sector and grow the economy. i don't think that big stimulus spending a couple years ago did any good even though the forecasters said it was great. >> you had people on earlier that disagreed with you. that's a fight we can reserve and you and i can have one night. i think the danger of the sequestration is real and i think the president's smart to say this stuff is not good. i think what we ought to do right now is exactly nothing. i don't think we ought to cut anything. we ought to stay where we are. job growth is up but not where we want it. and why are we cutting spending on anything right now. >> i got a question from sara fagen. >> you understand politics as swell as anyone in this country. and you watch this debate play out and each day it seems to me that the white house is digging in further and further, yet

increasingly more calling into question some of these -- what i think are phony claims about tens of thousands of people losing health care and child care and the border's not secure and we can't detain our immigrants. having said all that, don't you think the problem for the president is if he's wrong and he starts to look out of touch that he's going to have an erosion of his trusts? which is going to have a spiralling effect on the rest of his agenda. immigration, more health care, other things he wishes to push through this next term. you agree with that? >> i'm not -- first of all, i don't know what's going to happen. i'm going with the best forecasters, it's going to have pretty negative impact. secondly, apparently he believes it and the people in the administration really believe it. and to the extent that i talk to people, people are quite concerned about this. but, you know, he starts with a

pretty good political hand in this thing. but, i guess if it goes and has no effect and the republicans will say that, look, we did all this, we cut this spending and it didn't have any impact on anybody, nobody felt it, it just goes to show you there's a lot of fat in the budget. i'm not in to giving him talking points, but i suspect that's what we would hear. >> james, this is jimmy williams. >> hey. >> i want you to harken back a long, long time ago. >> okay. >> to 1993. that was eons ago, i can't remember it. but i remember having to spar with you at the white house. here's my question, when bill clinton raised taxes on every single american in 1993 and balanced the budget, what happened? i mean, just refresh us all. give us a history lesson as to what happened. >> actually, he raised -- only raised taxes on middle income people, i think it was a nickel or four-cent gas tax. he raised taxes on higher income. i think we had the longest sustained period of economic

growth and the best period of economic growth we ever had. >> he cut the capital gains tax. and he was -- he was a budget cutter. he was -- >> much later. >> the boom started in the second term. >> he's a keynesian. you're supposed to cut in good times and spend in bad times. bush spent in good times and -- >> thank you very much, yes. >> they understood that. that's what you're supposed to do, larry. >> and spends all time -- >> get the government out of the way, when it's going down then they come in and try to lift it up. >> let me raise this point, i'm going to give clinton a lot of credit. >> okay. good. he's coming to my house in new orleans on wednesday and i'm going to say larry's giving you a lot of credit. >> give him credit. by the way, i've known president clinton for a long, long, long time when i was a democrat, which goes back a heck of a long ways. >> i wish i could go back in a time machine, my wife used to be a democrat. i'd love to go to dinner with you in 1969. >> that's about when it occurred. let me get to this point, bill

clinton and newt gingrich, by hook or by crook had a lot of spending cuts, james, they took the share of gdp down from 21% to 18%. >> right. >> my point is, we had an economic boom because of spending cuts. and i think we could have the same economic boon today if we got spending down and back to normal. >> those didn't happen until the recovery was way underway. you can't have the same prescription when you're still in the biggest recession since the great depression that you had in one of the best recoveries we had in the great recession. and i think president clinton would be the first to say -- >> i've got to -- >> i wish you were still a democrat, we'd have a great time together. we still do. >> it's a pleasure to see you. >> thank you, man. always good to see all y'all. >> give mary a big hug. james carville. hugo chavez believed to be very near death.

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been a wee bit premature. seema mody has that story and the rest of the day's news. >> that's right, venezuelan president hugo chavez is clinging to life according to the country's vice president. saying today that the venezuelan leader is, quote, battling for his health and for his life. chavez has not been seen publicly for months since having cancer surgery in cuba. pope benedict xvi, the college cardinals will meet to begin the process of selecting a new pope. the obama team is now officially in the fight for gay marriage, the u.s. department of justice urging the supreme court to uphold same-sex marriage in california. the administration also suggesting it is unconstitutional for states to offer civil unions but deny couples the right to marry. and check out this viral video of an official in china's communist party going nuts at the airport. he smashes the computers and anything else he can find. why was he so mad? well, he missed two straight

flights because he was late to the departure gate. larry? >> that's an ugly clip. does anyone possibly disagree that venezuela would be a better place if chavez were dead? >> would be a better place, all of latin america would be a better place. >> he hates america, he loves ahmadinejad, castro, i was hoping it would happen tonight and -- >> let me be clear, i want him to die. >> all right. we're going to leave that. we're about to explain why michelle obama of all people is heaping praise on big business. big business is walmart, don't believe me, listen to this. thanks to walmart and so many other great american businesses, we're proving that conventional wisdom wrong. [ male announcer ] when we built the cadillac ats from the ground up to be the world's best sport sedan... ♪

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we know that michelle obama has, of course, a second term agenda to fight obesity. but you might be surprised who she's teamed up with. first lady penned this op-ed touting how business has changed habits by creating and selling healthy products. and get this, she actually praised walmart. and i think that's fabulous. and i thought her whole op-ed was terrific. take a listen to what she had to say in missouri this afternoon. >> just two years, walmart saved customers $2.3 billion on fresh fruits and vegetables across the

nation. and i'm going to repeat these accomplishments because they're worth saying over and over again because walmart still making money. >> all right. joining us now, nutrition expert robin o'brien, the author of "the unhealthy truth." robin, welcome. first of all, it's very unusual for democrats or any left of center people to praise walmart. they usually attack walmart. so i was impressed that michelle obama praised walmart for walmart's good work and healthier products. your take. >> you know, the statistics are there. i'm a number cruncher, i was an equity analyst and covered the food industry. and some of the companies are showing 46% of us want access to fresh, organic, local produce. we're looking at annie's ipo last year that had the biggest opening day gain in nearly a year. there's obvious demand across the board whether it's from the consumer or whether it's from business. and they're recognizing that there's enormous opportunity in

this right now. we're -- >> it makes sense. in other words, here's -- a lot of people think her husband is anti-business. michelle obama is definitely pro-business. besides praising walmart which is very unusual for any left of center political person. she praised disney for serving -- getting rid of junk food in the various locations. she also praised walgreen's, a whole bunch of other restaurants. they didn't name them, but she basically had -- robin, she basically had a pro-business, pro-market approach to this, not trying to jam everything down. and i really respect that. and i'm a free market guy, i want to praise her. >> i agree. i think the solution has to be market-driven. nobody wants to be told what to eat, you know. the food issue is such a loaded issue, so much more than just food. it's economics, family, political. there's so much involved in that. and if we can start to create these solutions in the marketplace and meet people where they are and give them what they need, that's the best solution out there. and the greatest part about that is there's enormous opportunity to do well and do good and i

think that's something -- >> it's profitable. >> something we were all looking for. it is profitable. and again, this annie's ipo last year, exploded, wall street loved it and that was all over a bowl of mac & cheese. and you look at that and you think, there's enormous opportunity. and to me, that is incredibly exciting. >> what do you think of this michelle obama praising walmart and basically using, you know, going through a business, not hammering them and screaming at them, but going through business to get her healthier diet? i think it's terrific, what's your take? >> i think she deserves a lot of credit. >> good. >> a lot of credit for having drawn attention to childhood obesity. it is a real problem. i think the challenge becomes, though, there is this broader industrial health complex that -- it's not just about ending obesity, it's about putting some of these businesses out -- you know, you look at a lot of the statistics, take the beverage industry, which she

didn't call out. sugar sweet beverages are 7% of our caloric intake as humans. >> that's bad. >> yeah. >> that's what michael bloomberg said. >> only 7% of our calories come from sugar sweetened beverages, yet if you read what a lot of people talk about, you would think, you know, soda causes cancer and obesity and it's the only reason for it. >> they go too far? >> they go way too far. >> robin, that's an interesting point. in new york we have the great nanny mayor michael bloomberg. but sort of unlike michelle, bloomberg is dictating and mandating what you can and cannot have. correct me if i'm wrong, i just got 25 seconds, michelle obama seems to be using the business marketplace. >> you know, i think that's where the most successful solution is going to come from. our kids are going to earn the title generation rx and it's not just because of obesity. cancer's the leading cause of death by disease in kids. and so we need these solutions, we need them now. >> got to go. >> there's enormous opportunity. >> thank you, thank you very

much. we appreciate it. jimmy williams, thank you, sara fagen, thank you. that's it for this evening's show. michelle obama, i like what she's doing on this. i like what i heard and read. probusiness prowalmart. i'm larry kudlow. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] it was designed to escape the ordinary. it feels like it can escape gravity. ♪ the 2013 c-class coupe. ♪ starting at $37,800. ♪