>> you know, mandy, my co-host wants to know if you cook kangaroo? >> we can, we can make it happen. >> that's not what you asked, mandy, but i had to throw the kangaroo thing in there, anyway. >> we've got to leave it there. we're really looking forward to tomorrow's show as well, brian. you're going to san diego, right? >> yeah, we'll show you why, tomorrow, san diego. >> thanks for watching everybody. "closing bell" is next. hi, everybody. we're into the final stretch. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo at the new york stock exchange. this market looking at a second consecutive day in the green. 100 points higher as we enter this final stretch. >> what we're calling a melt up today. i'm bill griffeth. on today's program, we're probably going to hit another new all-time high for the dow industrial average. we only need to be up 48 points to do that. that will be a big sell-off to make that happen.

>> lack looks like we're on tr do it. >> magic number for the dow, 14,462.1, we're way above that. >> the stock market might not like it if black rock's rick reider gets his way. we'll talk to him. >> also, developing corporate stories, the fallout continues for jcpenney after that stunning ouster of former ceo ron johnson we told you about first last night here on "closing bell." the stock is under pressure right now and now the company's board is feeling the heat. we'll get to that coming up. and plus a scandal at accounting firm kpmg. the feds are now investigating a senior partner for leaking nonpublic information, allegedly. it's an insider trading story that has the potential to get a lot bigger. we'll have the latest on both of those stories, coming up. >> what a story on herbalife. they're continuing to develop. let's check the markets as we approach this final hour on wall street. the dow jones industrial average, up 101 points.

the momentum on the side of the bulls, once again, two-thirds of 1% higher. check the nasdaq and the s&p 500. we are seeing buyers there as well. nasdaq composite up 26 points, almost 1%. at the highs of the day, right now, just shy of that, just a hair from the high. 32.48, last on nasdaq, and standard & poor's index also sitting at the highs with a gain of ten points. >> let's talk about it in today's "closing bell" exchange. it's chad morgan lander from stifel nicolaus, carol ross, and steven hemmers from compass emp funds and our own rick santelli. carol ross, i'll go for it and jinx this whole thing here. >> let's call it as it is. the stock market will never go down again. there, i've said it. >> well, i don't know if we'll go that far, bill, but as long as that printing -- as long as that printing press keeps rolling and rolling and rolling, that is the catalyst. i keep hearing people talk about

growth. and to me, growth in this market is kind of like the loch ness monster. it's a huge myth. if you look at the consensus estimates for analysts for the first quarter, they're expecting those to be down about 0.6%. so two out of the last three quarters, with down earnings for the s&p 500. that, to me, is not a robust growth environment. but, hey, as long as we have these lowered expectations, we have continued beats of those and the fed printing press keeps rolling and rolling, just keep that party going, but it will not last forever. >> chad, do you want to commit new capital to this market or what? >> similar to carol, we're surfing a wave of liquidity that's distorted the financial system a great deal. equity markets right now have been ginned up. i would be very cautious at this point, i would be looking for quality companies and would be moving up the quality spectrum, not only on my equities, but also on the fixed income investments. >> how do you do that on fixed

income? corporate bonds? >> you move from high-yield bonds and more into investment-grade bonds. and you want to move your duration down, perhaps to around 4.5 years. >> steven, i know you're cautious like chad is, but do you just go with this? do you just follow the trend and not fight the fed, or are you concerned about the implications and that there could be some drastic decline when the market wakes up some morning and decides that the fed doesn't matter anymore? >> you know, following the trends are important, but, you know, what the more investors that decide to get into the market because times are getting better, that's typically the time to get out. but what we have to understand as investors, that there's really no reason for the markets to be up as much as they are this year. you've got to look and find out why, you know, where's the growth in the economy. earnings are starting to condense or converge. so i would be very, very cautious. i would not pull out of the market, but i would be very,

very cautious. it is a risk on, risk off environment. and there's a very, very high chance we could see a little bit of pullback later on. >> well, what would be the catalyst? what's your best guess, then, steven, in terms of the catalyst, to really take this market down. you say the market's up for no reason. well, we know why it's up. the fed has created an environment where stocks are the best opportunity, as well as some economic indicators that have turned high, like housing. so we know why it's up. >> well, the catalyst really is going to be about news. you know, one thing everybody forgot is the problems that we had in 2008 with debt. debt in the u.s. and debt in europe. and i have to say that it's gotten worse. it has not gotten better. and investors have totally forgotten that we are not out of the woods in terms of the problems and where this country and, especially, where the developed countries are going. that is a major problem that we all forgot about. >> mr. mark and rick santelli,

what do you make. do you make any chink in this market's rally armor at this point? >> no, as a matter of fact, outside of the chinks in the armor, i see new gains emerging. how long has it been since you've seen so many people talk about the yen carry trade? you know, everybody's talking about it. you basically look at where the yield is on the yield curve for the japanese. you look at 52 basis points on a ten-year jgb. you borrow yen, you convert it to dollars and buy long bonds or tenure. buy euros, you convert it to boons. buy pounds and convert it to guilds. in the old days, maybe you would buy dollars and convert it into commodities or buy equities. but i think they're locking in some of these interest rates that explains some of the buying we've seen in the last couple of weeks outside of duration adjustment in the fixed income markets. and once you leverage that up 10 or 12 to 1, you're making a pretty sizable return. so, you know, they're gaming a lot of these programs. and remember, all stimulus is

fungible. >> you know, i wonder what your thought is, bill, on all of the fed speak that we've been seeing lately. you know, steve liesman has had an idea, and this is the beginning of the end of the stimulus. what do you think about -- >> well, certainly, we're nearer the end than the beginning. we have to be. mr. bullard, in an example today, where he said he would be willing to start cutting back in little baby steps and pull back on some of the $85 billion that they've been buying in bonds and mortgage-backed securities. >> but is this all for a reason? are they setting out a tone here, because then i would change my mind. >> i'll sit next to the exit with everybody else here in this room, but i'm not sure i would be heading for that exit just yet. carol ross, certainly, they're letting us know that it's not going to last forever, but it's not going anywhere anytime soon, right? >> we could be in the sixth or

the seventh inning here, but, eventually, the game does need to come to its logical conclusion, which means we have a very short window where companies need to use that cash and they need to start investing. they need to start hiring people, doing capital investments, doing m&a, things that will legitimately grow this economy and grow their profits and their revenues. if they can do this within that short period of time, then we have an opportunity to see this continue. if they don't do that, when the game's over in the ninth inning, it will all come crashing down. >>ed did you want to add a point? >> the federal reserve isn't going to stop with their qe until the economy has hit a self-sustaining path. and we're far from it. the jobs numbers -- >> in 2042. >> it will take some time. but we are starting to see a gradual improvement. i'm looking at 2014. >> okay. >> so next year sometime. >> that was a joke, 2042. >> correct, correct. are >> oh, yeah.

thank you all. see you later. >> thank you so much. tall three of the major indices, solid gains this year. so what's been working for investors and can it continue? josh lipton here now looking at the winners and losers on that angle for 2013. >> hey, maria. what's been working this year? those sectors that we traditionally consider more defensive corners of the stock market, staples, health care, and utilities. in fact, today, the dow jones utility average hit a new 4 1/2-year high for the sixth straight day. over that time, 4 1/2 years, two names really stand out. coned and duke energy, which have generated total returns of 103% and 83% respectively. so why all this interest in str couple of trends. one, investors are hungry for yield and finding it in these names. and market pros argue that investors are hiding out in utilities. some investors expect the market to fall apart, so they are renting defensive names to take shelter in. but they should also know that

not every investment pro thinks utilities are a smart bet. i spoke today to brian bellski, he is the chief investment strategist at bmo. bellski is no fan of the utilities in general. two broad reasons. one, utilities are very expensive, he says. these are not cheap stocks. valuation now at or near al all-time highs. also, the fundamental sector is eroding. in this security, belski and the team do recommend select ones, calpine and nextera energy. he remains overweight more cyclical or economically sensitive sectors, including energy, tech, and his favorite, industrials. bill, back to you. >> josh, thank you very much. >> do you want to tell them? >> no. >> okay. i'll tell you this, though. 50 minutes before the -- >> you're so bad. >> 50 minutes before the close,

we're a little off the highs, but we're in record territory with this 80-point gain. >> james bulllard weighing in on the economy with steve liesman. when the central bank could start taking its foot off economic stimulus gas pedals. >> we have more willingness on the kcommittee to make a relatie small adjustment, if necessary, to show markets that we're adjusting to the data, as it comes in. >> coming up, one of the wall street's biggest money managers says the fed needs to cuts the stimulus in half right now. that's black rock's rick ryder. he oversees nearly $800 billion in bond investments. he'll tell us about it. also, it's back to the drawing board for jcpenney after firing ceo ron johnson last night and rehiring his predecessor. how about that? coming up, we'll tell you whether this blast from the past can save the retailer. >> and then the securities and exchange commission allowing companies to review important information from social media. the ceo of warren buffett's business wire news services is

not so happy about it. she'll join us next to explain why it could give some investors an unfair advantage. stay with us.

welcome back. the securities and exchange commission ruffling some feathers with its new policy on social media. the s.e.c. saying it is okay for a company to use sites like twitter or facebook to release key information, as long as they tell investors in advance which social media tool platform they'll be using. >> this all came up, you may remember, when netflix ceo reed hastings got into some hot water last summer, in july, after posting monthly viewership results on his facebook page rather than in an s.e.c. filing or as part of a news release. >> the s.e.c. says that hastings is now in the clear. warren buffett does not agree. his business wire firm, which puts out press releases and regulatory disclosures, has some real concerns about this new ruling. joining us right now to talk about it is the president and ceo of business wire, kathy baron tamraz. thank you so much for joini ini us. >> nice to be here. >> help us understand and your reaction to the s.e.c.'s decision for companies using social media to communicate

company announcements. do you believe it's not as big an audience to warrant such a disclosure? >> well, today, i mean, i think 12% of internet users are on twitter today, so it's pretty small. we embrace social media. we've got 61 twitter feeds, and we see it as a real compliment to the wire, but as far as a stand-alone, it really doesn't compare to the push distribution that we offer to our clients. and it's also the idea of safety and security as well. >> understand, but i don't think the s.e.c. is saying that twitter or social media would replace traditional avenues of communication, do you? it would just augment or add to what you folks already do. >> that's exactly right. and if you read the report that they issued, after the netflix investigation, you'll see that it's very cautionary and they're harking back to regular f-d in 2000. and the interpretive guidance came out in 2008, that really the s.e.c. was saying, there are other tools out there. we're encouraging companies to

put up an ir website and also to have twitter feeds. those are just enhancements and that's how we see it too. >> and of course, let me just say, regular f-d, for those who don't know, the regulation full disclosure, fair disclosure, that makes a company disclose information equally to all shareholders and to the public all at the same time. >> i think you hit on a really important distinction here. will it be that the company goes through the regular press release process, the disclosures you're talking about, cathy, as well as social media, or is it okay for these companies to just use twitter? i mean, that's a huge distinction, given certainly what you're saying, that it's just 12% of the people on the internet, are on twitter. so, are there unintended consequences here? >> that was exactly my point when we put out our press release, is that the interpretation and the s.e.c. was trying to interpret, give more clarification around the interpretive guidance. and i think some of the pickup on what they said has been misinterpreted and if it were misinterpreted the way some people have said in the media,

then you could have some unintended consequences. i don't think any legal advice would ever encourage anyone to just go out on a social network or be very restrictive and selective disclosure, actually. >> you know, those of us here who work in television would love it if the only way that people could get market news was through us. but that doesn't work anymore. it never will be the same, right? and i think you would agree that the way people get the, you know, the information from corporations via press releases is going to change as well. i mean, if we never change, we'd all still be in caves, right? so i think we have to embrace social media, as much as i'm being dragged, kicking and screaming, on to twitter, we're going to have to embrace this, because this is the future, isn't it? >> listen, we used to put out press releases via telephone lines, radio waves, satellite, and then it went to internet, where today we hold five patents. and two of them, by the way, are in social media. so we're always moving forward. if you know a little bit about us, we're a company of firsts.

we tend to break all the rules, and we've been embracing social media for as long as it's been in existence. so, yeah, you've got to keep moving ahead. and the more places that you can place information for journalists, analysts, consumers, to consume, the better it is for the investing public. so we're all very much in favor of that. >> yeah, maybe, but, you know, if people are going to go to social media, does that make your company irrelevant? >> i don't think at all, maria. because, number one, we're selling safety and security. and we go through rigorous audits every year to ensure that we're pushing out information at exactly the same time to every market participant. and that's a pretty hard network to emulate. we've built it up over 50 years and we own our own patents on it. we've got five patents. we own our own technology. i think this becomes an adjunct and a compliment to what we're doing, and we're certain going to do more in that space. >> i agree with you, but certainly the world is changing. >> it continues to turn every

day. >> thanks, cathy. >> thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you very much. >> we're in the final stretch of trading here and we have a market that is off of the highs, up 86 points on the dow jones industrial average. art cashin just came by and said there is more to the buy side, but we're watching this market actually come off of the highs, so we're checking that. >> ford focus proving big things can come in small packages. have you heard this yet? the compact ford focus was the world's best-selling car last year. up next, find out if this big success can drive ford stock to new highs as well. >> also, regulators investigating leaks that led to huge increases to health care stocks. that was related to a headache in medicare advantage payment rates. will that add more fuel to the fire of those who say this market is rigged? we'll take a look at that next on "closing bell". >> speaking of health care, over $1 trillion, with a "t," is wasted every year on health care. today in the big data download, we're talking about how to fix that system and save big bucks. check it out on bigdata.cnbc.com

and on cnbc's mobile app and you can also follow it on social media like twitte twitter @bigdatadownload. i know what you're thinking... transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it's no surprise to you that companies depend on today's xerox for services that simplify how work gets done. which is...pretty much what we've always stood for. with xerox, you're ready for real business. how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone

who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed: the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ to enjoy all of these years. but i wondered what a customer thought? describe the first time you met. you brought the flex in... as soon as i met fiona and i was describing the problem we were having with our rear brakes, she immediately triaged the situation, knew exactly what was wrong with it, the car was diagnosed properly, it was fixed correctly i have confidence knowing that if i take to ford it's going to be done correctly with the right parts and the right people. get a free brake inspection and brake pads installed for just 49.95 after rebates when you use the ford service credit card. did you tell him to say all of that? no, he's right though...

ford has a very big hit on its hands, in the form of a very small car. phil lebeau has details here for us. phil? >> bill, we're talking about the ford focus, which for the second year in a row, is the best-selling vehicle in the world. here are the latest numbers. rh polka helped compile these

numbers. and when you look at them, you'll see that the ford focus -- ford sold more than a million of the focus. 150,000 more than the next closest competitor, the corolla. there you see the rest of the top five in terms of the global sales. the focus is the best-selling car in china. it has been a red-hot success for ford in china. one reason why the company's sales this year, up 54%. and remember, they're adding production, trying to catch up with gm and volkswagen over there. where is the focus selling well around the world? well, not surprisingly, the number one market for ford focus sales is china. 26% sold there followed closely by here in the united states. and this might surprise a few people, russia. ford has been a player in russia for some time. 9% of the sales are there. and then you have germany and uk, rounding out the top 5. so when you look at the ford focus, a lot of people sit there and say, it's a nice lit car here in the united states. guys, it's the number one selling car in the world and very big in china. >> wow. all right, phil, thank you so much. so should you give ford a test

drive for your portfolio? we're looking at ford and talking numbers right now. joining me right now to talk about it on the technical side of the story is jonathan crinski. and steve cortez is founder of veracruz and a cnbc contributor. gentleman, good to see you. jonathan, how did those charts look with ford? >> thanks, maria. we're short-term bearish on ford, but longer term, there are some signs that there could be some significant upside. the first reason we're bearish short-term is just the relative weakness that the stock has showed to the broad market. if we look at a stock overlaying ford with the s&p 500, you can see the two moved in tandem from the 2009 lows up to 2012. since january 2012, though, the s&p has continued higher by 20%, but ford has essentially flatlined or been dead money. and ford has recently broken below its declining 50-day moving average. we saw the same situation this time last year in ford and that proceeded a 30% decline in the stock. longer term, though, things

aren't all bad for ford and if we take a much bigger time frame and look at a ten-year weekly chart, we can see a potential head and shoulders bottom pattern on the side. so if ford were to get above 18, that suggests a potential move up to 35. so we think longer term it could be, but probably get some better entry prices. >> so we have some issues here on the technical side of the short-term. steve, what do the fundamentals look like? >> i agree with jonathan for the short-term, but i think it's underperforming for a very good reason. ford is down on year while the s&p is up 10%. but this is an incredibly global company and world marks are doing terribly. i think in particular for ford, the big risk is the european auto market, which is really falling to pieces. we've seen almost two straight years now of month over month decline in new-car registrations in europe. the chairman of fiat just told the press that he, quote, cannot see a bottom in the european car market. for those reasons, i think new cars, in general, are to be avoided, and ford here

specifically. >> let's not forget the japanese yen and what that's doing and what that means for the japanese automakers. >> that's a great point, and it's certainly going to make them more competitive verse ford. but all is not rosy for the u.s. automarket. although sales are going relatively well, if you look at total miles driven, the department of transportation puts that money out every month. total miles driven continues to decline, and in a very significant way, like it has ever since 2009. even though the broad market has recovered the '09 highs, mileage driven is not even near that. so i think the auto sector, new cars in particular is a place to avoid, new term and long-term. >> i think seasonally you're right. so i think we could see a decline, perhaps after earnings. it tends to do fairly poor after erp earnings. but laooking at that longer ter chart, there are potential signs for a nice move to the upside. >> i'm channeling my inner ralph nader. i think ford stock sun safe at

any price. >> that's a pretty aggressive point. gentleman, we'll watch the story. thanks very much for your insight. see you soon. >> all right. heading toward the close here. we've got about 30 minutes left. coming off the highs here, as you pointed out. even though the stock offered was to the buy side, those buys are being matched right now. the dow was up 101. up 86 right now. but still in record territory. >> listen to this, still to come. >> it does take time to change stores, to change customer behavior, to impact and influence. but that doesn't mean that change is wrong. it just takes time. >> seems time ran out for jcpenney ceo ron johnson. is the clock now ticking for the company's board? that's next. >> also, the banks have been leading this historic rally, as you know, but jeff cox says the banks could be heading for rough times and what could that do to the overall market? we'll talk about it, coming up on the "closing bell." tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 when i'm trading, i'm totally focused.

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we have new developments on the kpmg story we've been following all day. kayla tausche has the latest for us. >> of course, sketchers and herbalife were the two companies

where kpmg resigned their assignments. weinberg described the situation as, yesterday, two kpmg partners came to the companies' offices and read a prepared statement, disclosing that the senior audit partner, which we now know to be scott london, had admitted to selling the company's nonpublic information during his most recent two-year stint as sketchers' lead auditor. the auditor, london, of course, was cooperating with the feds, and nobody other than the lead was under questioning at the time. a second source notes that sketchers and herbalife were the only two accounts that london served as the lead auditor and that's why they resigned those accounts. london has been the lead auditor a decade ago, he would have never expected that he would have been selling their confidential, as was told to him yesterday. however, kpmg did withdraw the certification of sketchers' financial statements for the two years that weinberg said that london was their lead auditor.

weinberg said a kpmg assisting in the transition to a new auditor. they're currently interviewing new firms, but there are no misstatements in the company's finances, they're original and authentic statements that were audited by scott london during his most recent two-year stint at sketchers. maria and bill, back over to you. >> jcpenney shares just keep on falling, meanwhile, dangerously close to finishing at the lowest level in 12 years for the day, down, as you can see, $14.03 a share. as much as investors were questioning former ceo ron johnson, the move to oust him and replace him with a former jcpenney ceo is not sitting well either. >> according to brian mcguff, the investors have it right. firing ron johnson was the wrong move, and he wants the entire board gone as a result. also with us, matthew boss of jpmorgan, who says the company is facing an uphill battle. our own scott wapner, who broke the ron johnson news for us right here on "closing bell"

last night is with us, as is courtney reagan, who was interviewed johnson many times. thank you all for joining us. brian, i mean, what was the alternative? i mean, it wasn't working and we're just getting word now that maybe jcpenney's first quarter sales were down a whopping 10%. so, it was clearly that they were starting to lose some market share and money at this point. >> yeah, well, look, there's a random line with where the street actually estimated. what i'll say is that now the company is like half pregnant. don't fire the ceo now. fire him about six months ago or fire him in about another six months. so six months ago, when the pricing strategy went wrong, or in another six months, when we find out, if there's a new shop and shop strategy actually pans out. but when we're just about to see if it works or not, it just makes no sense to actually go ahead and to fire ron johnson right now. especially when it puts a lot of relationships at risk with

vendors, because you will have a couple of big vendors walk out. wall street hated ron johnson, but a couple of vendors really liked him. and they're going to walk out and it's going to be a problem for ullman and ullman's not exactly, you know, the great guy to -- >> why not. what's wrong with ullman? >> well, look, i mean -- >> they were profitable -- >> they got rid of him last night. he didn't exactly leave on the wings of victory. he took margins down from 7% -- >> well, they felt they could do better, they were bringing in the great retail genius. matthew boss, what now? what do they do with mr. ullman back in the saddle? do they keep looking for a new ceo and what kind of person are they looking for now? >> and how much accountability does the board have? >> i think the most important thing now for ullman is gaining the credibility and rallying the troops. i think the key is going to be, you know, trying to get the vendors on board, you know, as brian said. you know, that's really -- that could be the demise longer term. so i think the important thing is getting the message out to

the vendors, rallying the troops, both the store managers, the internal individuals in merchandising and figuring out the game plan. i think the key is also understanding what the customer wants, getting the assortments right. the lead times are long sw, so spoke with a company last night and it seems like back to school is a critical juncture, and trying to get the ship stabilized, by the time we get back to school and the higher volume holiday period ahead. >> well, i mean, i really want to focus on the board for a moment. they pushed out mike ullman and now they're putting him back in place. scott wapner, are you hearing upset about the board right now for investors? what are you hearing? >> i don't think that anybody really expects that mike ullman is going to be in this job for the long haul. he signed a one-year deal. i frankly would be surprised if he's still the ceo after even that long. they don't have an interim title by his name, but i think everybody involved expects that they're going to be looking for a ceo to take a more permanent role. he's 66 years old.

he's been there, done that. he's a stabilizing voice, at least internally. and that's a big part of the story. ron johnson didn't only alienate the customers of jcpenney, he alienated the own employees of his company. that needs rebuilding. and ultimately, he alienated the board by the fact that his strategy at the end of the day just didn't work. so they needed to do something to stop the bleeding. they brought in a guy to try to stitch jcpenney up, as best they could, at least, in the near-term. and they're looking for somebody, i'm sure, to take over the helm and bring this company further over the long term, assuming that the company has the balance sheet to make it to the long-term. >> courtney, meantime, this train is still going down the tracks. they've got to do something to put stuff on the shelves that people are going to want to buy. and the strategy was this store-in-store strategy that they were working on. and you're standing there outside a courtroom, where they were battling macy's over martha stewart. is all of that going to go away

now, or are they going to try to still work that out, do you think? >> bill, we don't know. we know that today in the courtroom, it's been very interesting. the judge has actually taken the teams of lawyers back in his chambers a couple of times. he's not going to make a ruling on any of the injunctions today. but he did say on thursday, that he will make a ruling on the injunction. if i were mr. ullman, i have to say, i might be more interested than ever before in just settling this case, so that's one less thing that i have to worry about. and i know for sure, what's going to happen to this merchandise, which, by the way, is sitting in warehouses right now. some of it doesn't even have martha stewart's name on it. it's labeled jcp every day. but it's in those disputed categories and right now jcpenney can't put it on the shelves. inside this store i'm at right now, if you go on the third floor, all of these home shops are complete shuttered in. that construction is not done yet. it's like someone, you're half pregnant right now. you've got a doll with all the stuffing ripped out. it's like this deflated body. what are you going to do now?

i don't understand why this happened at this point. i don't know where the company goes from here. i hope mike ullman can come in and be a stabilizing body, but things weren't so great you should him either. >> i guess to courtney and brian's point, especially to brian, with this being the wrong time that the board needs to go, brian, they had no choice but to do it now. could they have done it earlier? yeah. could they have done it six months later? yeah. but they had no choice in the matter. the company was hemorrhaging money. the sales were down more than 30% in the last fiscal quarter. if you believe some of the reports that are out this afternoon, the sales already don't look good in the first fiscal quarter of this year. but there was no choice. ron johnson did not have the trust of his employees, his senior management team, and certainly from the customers voted every single day, by not going into the stores and spending money there. the only way to get the thing turned around at this point was to get rid of ron johnson. finally everybody saw that and that's why they did it. >> let's look forward. matthew, from an investment standpoint, do you want to buy

the stock or sell into the sell-off? >> i think we need to understand what the strategy is. are they going back to full-blown couponing? are we returning the high/low liquidity? >> so you're sidelined? >> i'm sidelined and the liquidity is the issue. on my math, they could burn $500 to $1,000 and we'd be left with no cash on the balance sheet. then what? i think that's the biggest question from here. >> we're going to go at this point, folks. thank you. very important story. we'll still be following. >> see you later. 20 minutes before the closing bell sounds for the day, we've got a market that is higher, also off of the highs on the dow jones industrial average. >> coming up, former s.e.c. chair harvey pitt weighs in on how big the insider trading scandal at accounting firm kpmg could get and what it could mean to investor confidence. >> and then billions of dollars potentially at stake with the nfl and thousands of former players, as they square off in court over concussions. that's later on the "closing bell." stay with us. oh, he's a fighter alright.

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welcome back. role reversal here on the "closing bell." bob pisani, who is usually down here at the exchange, is over at world quarters. brian shactman here at the

nebrasnyse, where bob is usually. >> bob, even though you're not here, what's going on with this market? >> everybody and their mother cannot stop shorting the stock market and it makes sense, it's gone nowhere but up. the s&p is up about 2%. that's a straight line. everybody knows, the federal reserve and the japanese and the europeans are backstopping the world. the federal reserve is backstopping the world. but there's also some other stuff going on. china had very low, very low inflation report this morning. that gives them room for some stimulus. did you see what happened to some of these big commodity names today? they're all flying. they've been crushed in the last few weeks. it's been these defensive names moving up. look, copper's up 2%. this is all on this china play. look at the export numbers over the weekend from china. if they're up noticeably, you could be back in play with these cyclical names again. >> it's interesting, you know, the commodity, financials

leading the way today. so everyone's saying, well, it's a risk-on day. but then you look at the ten-year, and it's up 0.44 on the yield. so we obviously now know, there's no rotation out of bonds. it is that money, as bob said, coming from elsewhere. but you see financials, so many of them not at all-time highs. and you forget how far they fell during the financial crisis. so when you see all new highs, you see disney and you know, you're not seeing any of these names at all-time highs and that's why. >> another group hitting a 4 1/2 year high today, the utilities. >> i know. case in point. >> so they're going back to those that are a little -- seen as a little safer haven and that dividend play again, right? >> well, for sure. and as far as the dividend plays, that's continuing to be the space for investors, given the no-yield environment. but on the banks, i think investors want a reason to buy jpmorgan. we've got the earnings coming out on friday, and i've seen a lot of notes from the analysts, trying to make the case, to get in now, after, you know, the stock has come down, ahead of

these numbers. but we'll see, because it's all about those numbers. >> that's a good point, maria. wells fargo is the one to watch, because that's one third of all the mortgages in the united states. and mortgages are down a little bit in the first quarter. there's been less refi. that's a key you want to watch. put up the dow industrials for today. i've gotten a lot of calls about why are we getting these rises at 12:00 and 1:00 in the afternoon? a lot of people are theorizing this is japanese money. sometimes early in the morning, you get european money coming in. we get now, theoretically, japanese money coming into the united states. and that could be one of the reasons why we're getting these rises in the middle of the day. >> it's coming out now. >> some analysts think that even bank of america at this level, you know, long, you could see your money double or triple, even though it's come this far. >> because of the earnings? >> yeah. >> well, we'll see. >> thanks, guys. we'll see you later. heading towards the close. losing altitude. the dow was up 101 points at the peak of the day. need to be up 48 for another

all-time high for the day. our next guest just turned cautious on this market after being a huge bull. steve nooemt says there's a huge transition. >> and rick rieder, who oversees $800 billion in bonds for black rock tells us when if ever that's going to happen. and he's calling for the fed to hit the brakes big time. how and the market could react when and if ben bernanke takes his advice, coming up.

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time to get cautious. steve nemeth from sun america just did. this after being bullish for about three years. not to worry, though. there is one area that he style likes in this market. we'll find out what that is. steve joins us along with cnbc.com's jeff cox. you know, people have different responses as the market moves higher. those that were cautious suddenly then throw in the towel and say, okay, i'm going with it and then we're going higher. those who have been bullish suddenly become cautious, because we've gone far enough for them and you feel like it's time to become a little cautious. >> as value investor, we always kind of take the other side of the argument. we're always buying things cheap and selling things with our high. if you look at the valuation of

the market, we're at about 15 times trailing earnings. about 14 times future earnings. but what we're seeing is the economy is slowing. we saw goldman sachs lower their gdp outlook the other day. we're seeing corporate profits coming in a little less than expected. and the outlooks are going to be lower. if you have high pes, that's a recipe for lower earnings growth and the market could take a break. the last three years, you've had the phenomenon of selling in may. you're going into may and the last three years, the market has sold off a pretty decent amount. >> is this the reason technicians love this market. there's such a fair amount of skepticism, every time you turnaround, people are saying, where's that sell-off? >> and we have one right there. that's why people this is going to continue to go higher. >> i'm going to start calling this market the rocky balboa market. this market can take a punch. we saw those numbers come out on friday, they look terrible, the employment numbers, but the market kept coming back, just

like rocky did. here's what we want to look at. if there's an area that has led this rally, but i don't think it's going to lead the rally going forward, it's bank stocks. three things happening there. one of the things that we're seeing is that we have a shaky outlook as far as earnings go, we have some of the, we have some pullback now in some of that m&a activity that we had been seeing before, and we also have the economic picture, as well as goldman pointed out in a note today that when banks rally over 10% in a quarter, and it's followed up with weaker earnings outlooks, historically, we could see a 9% pullback on those stocks. so i think it's going to be an area that we really want to look at and see, how are they going to hold up? can they lead the market? >> and those numbers will be out later this week, as we pointed out? so what is group you still like at this point? >> the one group we like the energy. energy is up about 4% year-to-date. it's lagged the rest of the market. the valuations o. companies are below their historical averages. the price of oil has stayed up

at around 90 to 100. the big reason to own them is the activism in the group. the companies are breaking up, either by the management themselves or by outside investors. so there are a number of companies you can look at, whether they're service companies or regular emps. and we're seeing ge, actually, buy some of these companies. so i think there's a lot of room for them to go up. and also, it might be a defensive place to be, if there's global chaos. i think energy could go up. we certainly saw that with hess being forced to make some changes. that's a good point with the activism, for sure. let me ask you about what's vulnerable right here? >> we were talking before about financials. i think i mentioned it a couple of weeks ago. they're really not that cheap. bank of america, we still own some, have doubled over the last year, year and a half, went from 6 to 12. net interest margin is going to be a headwind. the mortgage business is slowing down significantly. >> they're also facing a contraction in loan growth, about a 2% contraction in loan growth for the fourth quarter. i think that's a real challenge as far as the business model. >> so you would sell going into the numbers on friday, jpmorgan

and wells fargo? >> i wouldn't add to them. you might want to sell some, maybe goldman sachs a broker deal, but the big banks, a lion's share of their move. >> neiman is cautious, and i know the day that jeff cox goes bullish, we can all get out of the market at that point, right? >> there's your talk. >> we'll take a break and come back with the closing countdown. the dow and the s&p close to new highs. see if we can finish that way right now. >> how about pimco's bill gross selling off one of his big investments. stick around to find out about that. you're watching the "closing bell" on cnbc, first in business worldwide.

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joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. welcome back. just inside three minutes here, as we head toward the close. looks like we're going to get an all-time high close for the dow. let me show you the dow first. we need to be up 48.5 points on the industrial average and we're up 69 points right now sp. so that looks like it will be an all-time high. the s&p needs to be up 7.18 points and it's up 6.64 points.

there's the s&p. we were in all-time high territory a few minutes ago, and we'd heard that the bias was to the upside of the close. but those buying orders were matched by some sell orders, obviously. they were traded off and we're heading lower here into the close. so we're up 6.5 -- yeah, 6.5 points on the s&p, but it doesn't look like it's enough for an all-time high. but we will have that for the dow jones industrial average. terry dolan joining me right now. this market doesn't want to quit. >> sure doesn't. i'll tell you, it's indicative of the fact that the rally's in tact. yesterday's turnaround reversal, i figured today would be a follow-up day, which we saw. the question is, what now? i tend to think we've got to play it a little bit to the sell side here. but we've been doing that for week after week after week. it's not a question of being short, necessarily, it's more of a question of being nimble. maybe making some lightning up positions, maybe getting ready to reposition. but this market seems endless. and the unwind from bonds into the equity market could be

perpetual. >> we were talking about it, friday's jobs numbers provided us with the bottom, at least for the last few days. when the dow was down 170 points on the open, on friday, and since then, it's been going higher ever since. we're. more than 200 points in the last few days here. it's as if that bad jobs number didn't even matter. >> you know, i've always been a person that maintains the idea, that one number doesn't really mean anything. >> but of all the numbers and all the economic reports you can get, fed is the one -- >> that is the one indicator that's going to continue to fuel the market. i agree with you on both points. here we are, a light rally in terms of volume, a snap back from yesterday's sell-off. we have to play it a little bit to the sell side and be cautious. >> we are coming well off the high. the dow was up 101 at the close. we need to be up 48 to get an all-time high. we're up 58 now. how damaging could it be to the psychology if we pull back enough that we're not at an all-time high. would it