"mad money", i'm jim cramer. i will see you tomorrow! two major stories dominating the political and financial world today. first there's this -- >> one of the bake functions of the fifth amendment is to protect innocent individuals and that is the protection i'm invoking today. i will not answer any questions or testify about the subject matter of this committee's meeting. >> top irs official lois lerner takes the fifth amendment looking into the irs scandal. but did she really? we'll explain and there are other fireworks at the hearing. listen to this one. >> 118 times, you were at the white house, 132 members of congress contact you about this information, 42 major news stories about this very subject

and you told congress a year ago i can give you assurances nothing is going on, everything is wonderful. er with not targeting conservative groups. >> that was congressman jim jordan going after former irs chief doug schulman. he is about to join us live. then the big financial story out of capitol hill. ben bernanke's initial testimony pushes stocks higher. they go sharply the other way when he seems to say something else. all those stories and more coming occupy on "the kudlow report" starting right now. good evening, everybody, i'm larry kudlow. this is "the kudlow report." lois lerner refused to answer questions in a house oversight

hearing. that was today. all right. joining us now are two distinguished house members who were inside today's house hearing, peter welch, democrat in vemplt. peter jordan, republican. and president obama's former chair of the council of economic advisers, my friend austin goldsby. okay. everybody is god. tim, thank you for coming on. listening to you about this guy doug schulman kind of makes you think there isn't a single character in this whole drama that is telling the truth. not a single major player telling the truth. what's your take? >> well, it sure seems that way. here he went to the white house 118 times in 2010 and 2011. 132 different members of congress contact him about this issue in the appropriate time frame. media reports, you know, several major media reports. yet, he doesn't know anything

about it. didn't fully understand what took place until last week when the inspector general's report came out. it doesn't pass the smell test. that's why he had a long six hours in the committee today. >> peter welch, welcome back to this show. i will ask you basically this same question. have you miller, you have schulman. you have lerner, there will be other witnesses. nobody wants to tell the truth. peter, my question to you is, won't we need a special council, an independent special council to get to the bottom of this irs rat's nest? >> well, actually, i have a lot of confidence in darryl issa and jim jordan. i wouldn't want them breathing down my neck. they will be very aggressive in doing this. whether we need a special council at the end of the day to get to the bottom of this, time will tell. bottom line, i support issa and congressman jordan to want to get to the answer. really. we didn't get the answers today. we have more to go. the two questions for the irs is

one, was this a case of mismanagement and ineptitude or was it a politically organized and motivated event and it's really important that the american people get a conclusion on that. we didn't get it today. so there's more work to be done. >> i'll give you the same choice as peter welsh framed it. was this ineptitude or politically driven? >> it's ha ready to make that determination right now because we aren't getting enough information. the people aren't testifying. they're refusing now to testify under the fifth amendment protection. we do need to get more information starting at that time white house as to what the white house and when the white house knew what was going on. i find it hard to believe this didn't boil up into the white house earlier than what we are being told at this point. the question about a special council, that's a very delicate issue as when you are going to go into that area. and i think the house members, darryl issa is doing a god job right now.

but i foresee if they continue down the shame track you will see special council get involved. >> that's what i think. austin, goldsby, welcome back. the governor mentioned a connection to the white house. who is your take on that? >> i'd be surprised, they said they told the white house council t. white house council said they didn't tell the president. i wasn't surprised that they would say that because -- >> why did they not tell him in the president is a smart guy. why wouldn't they fence him off? >> usually, it may be however, it may be to the public, overhowever, i would point out, if the president is not allowed to get involved in special investigations. and to tell the president about investigations as they're ongoing before they're out would raise a whole lot of legal issues, i think.

>> congressman john to brief you on this lois lerner fifth amendment. they revoked that. he will bring her back. she gave her opening statement. i want to ask you, what you know right now, do you think lerner was the quarterback behind these attacks on the conservative groups or do you think there is somebody else that was really pulling the strings? >> well, that's why we need her to come in and answer questions. she says she is still on employee by the irs, paid by the very taxpayers she targeted. she exercised her first amendment right. we need her. she is at the eye of the storm. we need her there to answer questions. i don't know if there are others involved. we know she at the eye of the storm. she should come in and answer questions like any public servant should. >> why hasn't she been fired? >> i think it's personnel rules. i share jim's frustration that we didn't get full answers from her.

i was a little dispiepted. -- disappointed. she served her interest and took the fifth amendment when mr. issa started asking questions. so this is a frustration for both side of the committee t. republicans and democrats on getting to the bottom of what happened, we're on the same page here. there really is. some of us want to do you the reform function and ask questions about whether this social welfare organization and tax code exemption makes xens sense. whether it's a liberal event. i think there is is ripoff when the laws are complied with. >> i'm for tax reform. let me go back to you, the irs shown itself to be so bad amongst the leaders testifying. so bad, everything they do. every part of this story stinks to high heaven. every part of it. let me ask you, could this cause a vote in congress to take the irs out of obamacare and try to have it reformed internally?

is this going to spillover into their obamacare responsibilities? >> i certainly hope so, larry. i said this in my opening statement. the agency systematically targeted groups who came into existence because they opposed obamacare. they started that targeting march, 2010, the very month obamacare became law. when mr. shulman wan went to the white house, 46 of those times were talking about obamacare. these things are linked. i certainly hope what you suggested could take place. >> senator corbett, what do you hear in pennsylvania, is this issue sticking? are people talking about it or is this an eastern beltway? >> no, i think this is a state wide issue, a national issue. you start looking at the newspaper stories, they're covering it much more closely, especially you see a definite uptake in coverage of that now

as a result of the issue with the a.p. and the subpoenas to the a.p. reporter's telephone records. it is sticking because, as i said, one time earlier, the three letters that scare most taxpayers the most are irs. they have a very chilling effect. if they are directed by a supervisors to start really looking at a group because of their free speech rights, then that's a frightening aspect of an agency this big and the fact that you are going to increase the size of this agency by thousands of people on behalf of the healthcare act is a frightening, even more of themselves. >> do you agree with that? the irs has not proven its spurs. the ought to hahnt them. >> look, if they had been targeting, in a lot of this evidence it appears they have, on a partisan basis, one party than the other. i think that's a big problem. they got to get to the bottom of that and physical out what's been happening. i do think we created, me we,

america an congress created a law which stuck the irs in the middle of partisan politics by saying you are allowed to be a fawn profit and spend money on electionings as long as you are not a partisan entity and we ask the irs to determine are they partisan or not? if they're targeting one party and not the other, i think that's a big problem. i don't see how you are going to change the obamacare logistics at this point in the game and say, well, it's not going to be the irs. it will be somebody else. >> how would you do? one final thought, give it to mr. jordan, is there talk in the republican conference about separating the irs from obamacare? >> there is talk about obamacare. remember, larry, senator baucus who was intricately putting together this bill, passing this legislation called eight train wreck. when have you the head of the senate finance committee calling it a train wreck the irs, there are ways to suspend this bill,

there are talk about ways to suspend all of obamacare, ways to remove it from the irs. all dhoefs are taking place in light of what's happened. >> we'll leave it there. i just think it's amazing. nobody from the irs tells the truth. there is no straight shooter. the whole thing looks like a massive political coverup to me. there will be big consequences. congressman peter welsh, thank you, congressman jim jordan. we appreciate it very much. the other big story, a wild swing on wall street. ben bernanke sounded dovish and said the opposite later in the same hearing. then the fed minutes came out and sent stock investors rushing for the exits. we'll try to get to the bottom of all that whipsaw action in the market. don't forget, free market capitalism is the beth path to prosperity. i think austan coolsby is right. we need pro tax reform in the u.s., i'm kudlow, we'll be right

back. . we still need growth.

let me go to my friend mark olsen. i heard a different bernanke hasn't the market. >> i agree with you. i don't know if it's a mixed message as you described it. i think it was two messages.

i think that's the key. we have the testimony in the morning. the testimony was in response to questions. the question was very direct, how do you unwind? and so he was answering the question, how do you unwind? the minutes came out in the afternoon. the minutes essentially repeat what happened the previous meetings had been. so that was the confusion. >> i liked what he said, had he won. he said a very interesting thing. he said, we don't have to sell everything. we can let a lot of these mortgage bonds run off. they would shift the federal funds rate. in other words, the idea that the fed might have to sell $3 trillion worth of bonds all of a sudden one day is nuts. i think a lot of wall street people do not understand how the fed works. >> you are exactly right. of course the mortgage batch are the, have the lowest duration so they can roll off relatively quickly and as the treasurys can't. remember what they were doing with the treasury, they were extending the duration. what is new is they are actually

talking about how they will unwindow. i think that's a little bit new. >> i thought that was good, art w hogan, if one believes that the fed slows down the bond buying in two weeks, is the market going to completely crater? >> i think two things. first of all, i think that's a huge leap of faith that the instead close to tapering. i think the initial message was clear, tapering is not on the table. we need to see a significant improvement. we haven't seen that. >> months, he keeps saying that. >> what we need to seet the jobs creation in the 200s, the average 225, 250. oh, be i the way, that would be good news. i think that's the point we're missing. the good news is the fed is tapering. the market also has to look at one other thing. i think this is very important. you have to believe the only reason the market is up, some 130% on the s&p 500 because of

the liquidity by the fed. that would completely throw away the fact that earnings are up exactly 127% in the same time frame. >> it's just not a fed problem. that whole line of reasoning. austan, how do you see the economy right now? >> only so-so. that's why i 100% agree with you, larry, i don't see how anybody at the fed could be singing that in the imminent time frame, we are about to start unwinding the position. i don't see that happening at all. i think what happened in the markets was a little bit like the kids don't like to see the parents arguing. they don't know who was actually left the dishes out on the table. they just don't like to see mom and dad fighting. so when the minutes come out on the fomc. you see there is the same dissent we seen before, people start getting nervous. is that why he's talking about unwinding the position? i think it's a ke point they

asked him, how would you unwind the position? it felt like people are getting out ahead of themselves. >> now, your old boss, we are in this sort of 2% economic growth zone. i would guess most of his economic advisers do not want the federal reserve to do tightening or tapering or anything; that fair? >> i think that's probably fair. i think they probably agreed pretty wholeheartedly with what bernanke said today about the fiscal drag being pretty significant. >> that's the head wind? >> that's the head wind, being bigger than what the fed is able to do. >> why did we raise payroll taxes? >> you know why. it was all a part of a big negotiation. people were obsessed with a short run deficit rather than the long run fiscal problem. so what bernanke said today is exactly right. we are putting the focus on how do you get the deficit down this 84 and that's not the problem. the problem is, all this stuff going out in the future. >> see, where i disagree with my friend austan and his former boss is i think limited

government and spending cuts are god. i don't regard that as fiscal drag. i regard that as pro growth. it strengthens the private sector. it seems to me whatever i believe, bernanke is determined to offset any fiscal head winds by putting enough money into the economy and that's another reason why they're not going to move. >> it's the only game in town. >> i don't like that reason. >> particularly with the sequestration, it's the only game in town. there are two other factors at work here. because in the capital markets world, you have the capital markets people wanting to return to a more normalized yield curve. so there is that pressure to demonstrate some growth and then the commercial banking sector, that isn't experiencing the loan growth that they want, want to see some evidence that they were going to start tightening so that rates can come up. because there has to be an incentive to move. so they're pummelling, the members of the open market committee and saying, get ready, come out,let move, so we're responding. >> you buy or sell, first, get a

correction, are you a boyar or a seller? >> i'm a boyar even if you get a correction. that's proven to be the case. we have come through a period of time, a sophisticate period of time without a significant correction. we have seen a 5% correction. that's not normal. boy stock the valuations aren't stretched. oh, be i the way, the economy is improving albeit slowly i think earnings are very reasonable right now. >> how might they be improving? i have to get out of this. >> if you pay me more, i'll be a boyar. >> thanks to mark olsen and art hogan. we present it. now, a horrific story out of london. a british soldier we headed in broad daylight on the street, his attackers yelling islamic threats and muggings for the cameras as they waited for police to arrive. terrorism hits london again. we have the latest on that one coming up. it's as simple as this.

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a horrific story out of london today remarks grizzly murder in broad day lite. michelle ka sin ski joins us live with the details. good evening. >> reporter: hi, larry, right. this was an absolutely horrific attack. the kind of thing as people started to get news of this during the day, it made them sick. to hear people calling into television stations in tears describing what they saw. in fact, the government called it sickening and barbaric. tonight, the prime minister said that there is strong indications that this was a terrorist incident. tomorrow morning, he's going to head up a special meeting of the

government's emergency response team and right now, britain is beefing up security around army barracks across london. now, eyewitnesses said that it was in the middle of the day on this busy working class neighborhood london street southeast london. a soldier, a british soldier is walking down the sidewalk when all of a sudden two men in a car seem to bump into him with the car and then witnesses say they got out and immediately started stabbing and hacking him with a large number of knives and machetes. some eye witnesses said the victim was beheaded during the attack. then witnesses said that the two men started walking around approaching people in the crowd that was growing, obviously, horrified and asking people to take pictures of them. one of the suspects even delivered a sort of political rant that was captured on what looked like cellphone video in which he evoked the name of allow.

he said this victim was targeted because he was a british soldier and said that british soldiers daily are killing muslims around the world. after that, witnesses said the two pen waited for police to arrive, which took about 20 minutes. they then charged at police and were shot in the process. they are both in hospitals right now. tonight, both of them are officially formally charged. just an unbelievable attack and there are, you know, similar to the london bombings. even though this seems far less sophisticated. there are all these questions whether this was a lone wolf attack. what was it al qaeda inspired? might there be other people involved in most importantly, might there be other attacks planned? it did appear these two men were specifically targeting british soldiers. larry. >> all right. michelle kasinski, thanks very much. a tough story. a big legal question at the center of the irs scandal right now. take a listen. >> i will not answer any questions or testify about the

subject matter of this committee's meeting. >> we will take your refusal as a refusal to testify. the witness and council are dismissed. >> mr. issa, mr. couplings said we should run this like a courtroom. i agree with him. she just testified, she waived her fifth amendment right to privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and not be subjected to cross examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to fifth amendment privilege. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. [ applause ] >> well, she just might after all. it is possible lois lerner accidentally waived her fifth amendment rights and will have to answer questions. she has just been recalled to na congressional hearing. legal expert and former u.s. attorney joe degeneva will explain what lerner is facing if

she doesn't cooperate next up on "kudlow." please stay with us. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. ka sin skikasinski . [ male announcer ] citibank's app for ipad

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helps him deposit his checks. jay also like it when mother nature helps him wash his car. mother nature's cool like that. citibank mobile check deposit. easier banking. standard at citibank. test test. >> the former irs official in charge of the division that targeted conservative groups refused to testify before a house committee today.

lois lerner invoked her fifth amendment rights and was dismissed from the hearing. but, get this, she may have actually waived her rights when she said this in her opening statement. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules or regulations and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. >> now, house government affairs chairman darryl issa plans to subpoena ms. lerner back to the committee. joining us to talk about this former u.s. attorney joe degeneva. joe served as an independent counsel in 1992 and named special counsel by the house of representatives in 1997. pennsylvania senator an austan cools. did lois lerner lose her right

when she proclaimed her innocence in her opening statement. >> the only thing you are allowed to do is give your name and maybe your address. that was it. she went beyond that. she dealt with the substance of the hearings. she declared her role. she actually described the fact that she didn't violate any rules, regulations. that is substantive testimony. that is a waiver of the fifth amendment t. law on this is very clear, all of these involve cases from the district of columbia, where congress sits. she waived her privilege. actually, what should have happened today was she should have been forced to testify and when she refused after having done what she did, the chairman could have said, are you now in contempt of this committee and if you continue to refuse to answer questions, you will be sent to the floor of the house for a contempt of congress resolution. she is now in contempt of congress. >> all right. governor corbett, have you have been through this process, yourself. do you agree with that joe said? >> absolutely. other than saying your name,

maybe your date of birth or something like that. once you start telling your side of the story then you invoke your fifth amendment rights you can't do that. >> that's congressman dowdy. >> you heard the people in the background applaud on that. joe has been through this many, many times, i'm sure. you can invoke it in the beginning. but you can't invoke it when you choose to invoke it. >> so she goes back to the committee. she will be asked to appear and clams up and takes the fifth amendment, what happens then? >> well, the committee can hold her in contempt of congress and can refer her to the full house of representatives for a contempt of congress citation. then it would be referred to the u.s. attorney for prosecution. but what they can also do is go to the united states district court and seek an order of compulsion forcing her to testify and that may be the option that they choose. >> governor, can i just ask, the supreme court decisions, i'm not a lawyer. but something called the garrity

decision does give immunity or fifth amendment rights to government employees, federal, state and local government employees. is that infamous at all? >> i'm sure her lawyers are talking to her about that. it doesn't enter into it once you waive it. once you waive it, you are to testify as joe has indicated also, i think that she's going to find herself back in front of congress and back in front at some point in time, a court will order her now to testify. >> joe dejoseph, last one to you, how dumb is her lawyer? >> what makes you think she obeyed her lawyer's advice? >> ego, a little narscism. she had to defend herself regardless of counsel? >> when you look at her history, this is a democratic appracheck. she was at the federal commission. when she was there, she went after conservative political groups. she is a very dangerous public servant and it is wonderful to see her under the gun.

>> okay. now, hang on. austang -- lsby. your name came up during today's hearing. take a listen. >> media reports asserts that austan g -- lsby the then frick adviser disclosed confidential tax industry about coke industries to reporters on august 27th, 20106789 so mr. shulman six months after mr. g -- lsby made that announcement. you met with him on february 23rd, 2011. did you ask him then or any other time how he obtained that information? >> not to my recollection. >> all right. did you? >> no, absolutely. i was surprised by the same thing. >> what is he talking about? >> okay. i'll tell you what he is talking apt. a, it's not true. i never had or disclosed any confidential information about coke industries. in 2010, the economic recovery

adviser board, the voelker board, released a report on tax reform that we talked about on this show, the 58 different proposals for tax reform. one of them was about the way the tax system treats large private companies differently than large public companies. >> s corpss. >> i used what i thought was a correct but turned out to be incorrect as an example of a large private company, using totally public sources like the forbes list of private companies and some newspaper articles, i thought they were. and i said, in the question and answer on this call about the. >> wait, this is public? the irs put this out then? >> so what happened is. >> you and shulman. did you get together with shulman? what did he ask you? was he accusing you? >> the no, this had nothing to

do with that. my meeting with shulman had nothing to do with that accusation and that this accusation had nothing to do with the p-rab report. this was an incidental example which the coke industries folks came out and said, that's not true, what i had said, they weren't an example of it and i have apologized. i'm sorry i ever brought them up. i never have used them as an example again. this was off totally public information. i never had or disclosed anything secret about them. so i was as shocked as anybody. this was totally debunked three years ago when the thing came up. >> joe, degeneva, will you acquit austan g -- lsby, what do you think? >> i have no reason to doubt his honesty. i have reason to doubt the honesty the people at the irs and the treasury department and the white house. it's a good ting he is not there anymore. he'd be right in the middle of it. >> that wasn't a real vote of confidence, but i appreciate it. >> i got to get out.

>> austn, let me tell you something. you got the when you will get. it's too bad are you not there. you could probably help them. these guys seem for the not know what they are doing except one thing, how to lie. >> that was a complement. a back door complement. i would take it and run. >> thank you. >> joe, thank you very much. >> thank you, larry, great to be with you. >> governor of pennsylvania tom corbett has been with us all evening. it's time to ask him about the number one economic story in his state. it is energy. fracking has turned several long suffering parts of pennsylvania into cash cows. so should the rest of the country do the same? of course, including new york state. i'm kudlow. next up. ♪

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stimulus. the natural boom created jobs and spurred economic growth in places like north dakota, texas and pennsylvania. yet, despite its benefits, there are reports tonight president obama's new energy secretary ernest m o niz is plavening to delay lick which nied natural gas decisions.

i don't get that. let's talk with governor tom bosch corbett. let's stay with natural gas. all the fracking that's gone on. how much has your state's economy benefitted? >> it has been a tremendous benefit to the economy, particularly to jobs in pennsylvania. in the last two years, we've put 125,000 private sector jobs in place. a vast majority, probably 28,000 were in the energy field alone, direct. then there is many induced and related to that. that energy field also has been good for saving our refineries down in southeastern pennsylvania because it's going to be connected there. we are look to do another maybe possible ethylene crack there. shell oil is looking to creating an ethylene cracking facility in southwestern pennsylvania. if we have those, will you see reindustrialization of a good portion of pennsylvania because of what we're doing. >> do the state coiffures

benefit? >> we did not tax it because we already taxed those companies. we did put an impact fee on. in fact, that impact fee over the course of the last two years has brought in over $400 million. we made it unique. we said 63% i believe is the numbered that to go directly to the counties impacted by the drilling and the people up there. >> didn't that go across the state line, governor andrew cuomo can't make a decision the reason is the guy has been on our show, robert kennedy, jr. is stopping him. he's leading the environmental group. let me put it to you differently. how did pennsylvania beat the environmental groups? >> i believe the industry demonstrated the technology is safe. it has been going on 30-some years in texas. we passed a law last year that is the toughest environmental law in the nation when it comes to fracking. we are following what the industry is doing. they so far have been safe.

when there has been accidents, that i have been penalized for it. >> i hope kenzie is hearing that. i do. it's convincing. but i'm not going to let you off, austin. why is the obama administration opposed to opening up federal lands for this fracking an gas and oil? >> i'm not sure that's a totally fair characterization. i think it's got to be safe. swhe have to establish the safety. i think a lot of the big companies that are doing the exploration and the drilling have done that. i think there are some questions, as i understand it, though i'm not an expert in this area about more of the wildcat are in the small companies. but if it's safe, i think it's an important -- there it is massively important both geostrategic for the company. >> exactly right. the president wants to tax oil and gas companies. that annoys me. >> we disazblee a little class warfare. he doesn't like fossil fuel. >> in my view the history has

shown we have big subsidies to oil companies. i would have thought you'd by a gainst it. >> i would if you have taxed. agree, with you lower the marginal tax rates. they don't need the subsidys. >> subsidys, i think is a bad idea. i think targeting any particular industry away, we're going to change your tax rate because we don't like you is a bad idea, too. >> that keeps picking on oil and gas companies. governor, one last thing about this liquified natural gas, the department of energy okayed one in texas. >> the sedin pass. >> the new secretary said, no, no, no. >> i think that's a major mistake. i just returned from a trip last month to brazil and to chile. brazilians came up to see what we're doing in pennsylvania just last week when it comes to the drilling. they have a state there. they're getting ready to drill in. but chile is an energy-starved nation. they need the energy. they're very interested. it met with the president for

over an hour conversation. the no. 1 subject was, can you go at the time gas down to us? can you get liquified down there? why i think that is important is we start changing the geopolitic of the world. we are now an energy leader in the world. we can understand that. we can get our independence from the middle east. if we have this gas, chile is the second oldest democracy in the western hemisphere next to us. shirk as you know, there are a couple countries that haven't been so good to us. >> that's where the exports will go. you can help venezuela by helping out these countries, create more jobs. why is your obama deal -- >> i don't know anything about that and i've never met the secretary. but i will say one of the great booms of the shale gas explosion, if you will, so far has been reduction in energy price for u.s. manufacturers.

as we start shifting to a more export-based model, everything is going to go to the world price. if this becomes a world commodity, that differencetial advantage, the u.s. companies. if we produce it. but we're selling it abroad. we will go to the world price. >> it's a marginal producer. that's going to hold prices down. >> we will. it will hold everyone's price down. that's what i'm saying. so, right away. >> so as a -- >> and jobs, create job, all over the place. >> the specific benefit to u.s. manufacturing comes predom nantally from cost being lower here than other places. if we start exporting it to everywhere and there is just a world price, this thing becomes a world wide commodity that, differencetial comes. >> we will leave it there. we want to get an update on the continuing recovery efforts in oklahoma. we will get that from oklahoma senator tom colburn. that's next up. differencia

differencial. test test. >> two days of a massive

oklahoma rocked moore, oklahoma, the city is shifting its refrts efforts from rescue to recovery. senator tom colburn, first of all, can i say prayers for the baby angels who lost their lives. prayers for everyone else that lost their lives, prayers for the entire state of oklahoma, sir. >> well, thank you very much, larry. you know, it's really interesting. one of the statistics that impressed me this morning with

the thousands that are homeless, only 24 spent the night in the shelter. the rest were taken in by other oklahomans. >> is it too soon to talk about recovery in this? >> no, yesterday, the front end loaders were working, man. oklahoma gets it. we already had almost $15 million of private money come in to help in the relief effort. so, you know, the leadership has stood up in oklahoma and a lot of people throughout the rest of the country, you know, the marc i know and love is responding in a way that we should be responding to. we ought to be very thankful that the core values of this country rise up in times of need and with the tremendous loss of life that we had and experienced so many people and so many families, the fact is, is that other than that, we'll recover. we'll rebuild and we'll keep going like we have been going. we're the little engine that could. >> you know, i want to ask you

as you toured the state yesterday, as you toured the area more oklahoma yesterday, but i have been watching the tv a lot and oklahomans, i mean, they seem to be very levelheaded with a certain spirit that really is terrific to watch and i just want to ask you, what did you hear when you were talking to people? >> well, i mean, you know, people are thankful that they got away with their lives. you know, they're really concerned about those that lost loved ones and the children and they'll be there to support people emotionally and spiritually as they get on with their lives, but, you know, it's like mark mcbroid said, the state representative from the area the government can help us what they want. whatever they don't do, we will do ourselves. so we need to get after it and we're ready to do it. and he actually lives in the area, so. >> all right. great stuff. president obama issued a disaster declaration as you

know. fema is now getting involved. i don't know if they're on the ground yet or not. senator, can you clarify your own position on this? there has been a lot written back and forth. i want to get it straight from you on disaster funding. are you in favor of disaster funding? are you opposed to disaster funding. help me out with a clarification. >> look. i think the federal government, larry, can step in and help people in times of need. we ought to do it. we shouldn't just charge it to our. my problem with the supplemental disaster bill is $40 billion of that money ain't going to get spent the next two-to-five years. it's obviously not mrnlths. what we did is we piled in on earmarks and parochial projects and things that didn't have anything to do with relief. that's the problem with the career politicians in washington, you get a spending bill that doesn't have any restraints on it. they had everything including the kitchen sink to it. what we really needed in the northeast was about $19 billion

and i voted for the first ten. i would have voted for the next ten. but the other $40 billion should have gone through a process that said, we're going to make priorities out of this. we didn't do that. the career politician don't want to make hard choices, just like everybody else in this country has to, except the people who are elected to make good, long-term decisions for the customer. >> regarding the disaster in oklahoma. as i understand it, fema has about $11.6 billion. now, would disaster money come out of fema or would you want offsets even to that fema money. >> no. >> we have paid for that money through the budget this past year, one. so it was put in there as a priority. it's probably not going to be more than $2 or $300 million. there will be a state match, especially on the cleanup and other things. there will be money for schools that aren't insured. but there is not going to be another supplemental bill. you know, this is all, the

political games of the media that want to create an issue when there is not an issue. you know, my obligation is help people personally and also help them as a senator to do the right thing. but it also means not hurt our kids as we go through and do that. look. the tendencys of washington are just absolutely terrible. when it comes to spending money that we don't need or not making choices. and my position has always been, when we're going to do disaster relief, we ought to cut some of the low priority spending to pay for that rather than charge it to the very children that we say we're helping but, in fact, we are hanging with a n oo se with the debt we are putting around their neck. >> we will leave it there, senator tom coburn of oklahoma. thank you for clarifying. >> you bet, thanks. >> we will wrap up here. let me say many thanks to pennsylvania governor tom corbett. good luck on the resolution in the great state of pennsylvania.

austan goolsby. we had too much disagreement. >> is it me? >> except for the spending cuts, you got to get around to the sequester, austan, that's what it is. and tax reform. anyway, thanks very much. you are both great for joining me on the set. that's it for tonight's show. thanks very much nfor watching. i'm larry kudlow. all the best to you. we are gathered here today to celebrate the union of tim and laura. it's amazing how appreciative people are when you tell them

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