a couple of hours ago. the dow now -- it's not up big, but it is up. the nasdaq and s&p are all higher, as our "street signs" mottos go, everything's fine. thanks for watching "street signs." mandy's back tomorrow. the "closing bell" is next. hi, everybody. we're into the final stretch. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo at the new york stock exchange, where it is a comeback thursday. this market trying to complete a major comeback. the dow trying to avoid the first three-day losing streak this year. that, alone, is extraordinary. >> we haven't had one. >> exactly. i'm bill griffeth. it's setting up to be a very, very interesting final hour of trade. volatile market in the focus of today's program. we've had the currencies really dictating this play, an unprecedented turnaround. lately, with the japanese strategy to try to lower interest rates and the value of the yen, there's been a long

dollar/short yen strategy out there for several months. today, it reversed itself big time and sent our stocks down, until they came back again. it's very crazy. trying to make sense of this. >> we were down 116 points bill, on the low, at the dow jones industrial average. looking at a gain now of 20 points as we enter this final hour. if this week's sell-off is a correction, would that be a bad thing? we've got some surprising information on what's happened after previous market declines. if you have any cash available, you'll want to hear this upcoming report. >> then there's tomorrow morning. we're not finished. that could change everything. the jobs report will be out. what kind of number is the market looking for at this point. would a bad number tank the market further, or somehow ignite a new rally, because bad means more fed policy health in the bond market. we could set you up for what you need to know, ahead of that report, coming up in a little bit here. >> i'm liking this action. the vix index moving up. take a look at the dow industrials, up 23 points, as we just mentioned, down 116 at the

low, happening at about 12:30 eastern p.m. today. and up 24 points on the dow now. nasdaq and s&p 500 also in the green. nasdaq up about ten points ahead of that big jobs report tomorrow. and the s&p 500 showing a gain on the session of about seven points on half of one percent. >> let's talk about this crazy day in "closing bell" exchange. scott wapner back at headquarters, sam stovall is with us at the big board. neil hennessey from hen funds is with us, chris gerch. our own rick santelli is there too. chris, tell us about this trade. a dramatic reversal of that long dollar/short yen move. it reversed itself big, but now we've come back again. what's going on? >> bill, what happened, it was pretty easy. we've been trending on that 50-day moving average with the yen for the last, almost eight

months. we dipped below that, and there was no technical support all the way down to 9470, really, and what happened is, we just had a mad rush, and what happens is, when people dump into the yen like that, that's risk off. then, all of a sudden, you see stocks pull back, and we had a double bottom there. we had some buyers come into the yen, and that led the s&p higher, making a series of higher lows throughout the year. but right now, no one knows what's going on with the yen. there's no set floor. so really look to safety in gold right now. i think that's the play. >> have you ever seen a day like this before in the currencies? >> no, i have not seen -- the fact that it started yesterday, and rick can talk to this, it's the aussie. the aussie, all of a sudden, that move, 4 cents last night, i didn't get to bed at all. my wife was -- i was check on all the trading algorithms that was running all night. it's been 24 hours. not just the yen, everything's

moving around, the aussies might cut their interest rate by as much as predicted, by 50%, down to 2.25. >> sam, tell me about this japanese yen and how this incorporates into the u.s. story. i mean, you know, obviously, the currency story has become front and center. does that change anything in terms of earnings, in terms of the fundamentals here? >> i think that what we saw was an exodus of money out of japan with the weakening of the yen, the concern you're basically say, i'm looking for better yields elsewhere, and that is the thought that we were getting a boost in the u.s. from japan. but our economy doesn't necessarily benefit from a very short-term investment from japan. >> bill and i were having a debate with some of our guests this week about the second half of the year. and are we going to see an uptick in earnings second half or are we going to see a slowdown as a result of -- >> our belief, you're going to see an uptick in the earnings. that actually, what is happening right now, in our opinion, is the market is going through is a

metamorphosis. going through a liquidity-driven market to a fundamentally driven market. i think investors realize, it's just a matter of time before the fed does engage in its tapering program, and now the focus is on how well could the u.s. economies handle such a change. >> rick santelli, make sense of this for us. what's going on the last few days and why is it happening right now? >> first of all, i think you have to quit thinking in terms of proactive and think more, today, in terms of reactive. you know, we had abonomics joining the fed, and then we had the federal reserve throwing out the notion maybe the taper is in. and all of that questioned levera leverage. the yen, if you want to oversimplify, if that's your currency, we have a short yen position. well, as the yen rallies, things start to happen. it's almost like securitization. the last level or the mezzanine

of the leverage put on, probably in april, was under dress, probably margin calls, so the structure of how it's all held together, financing the leverage to go buy your spanish ten-year, your italian ten-year, maybe u.s. stocks, it unravels. now, certain markets came back, because, you know what, in a perverse sort of way, this actually could be bullish for both ten-year treasuries and for u.s. stocks, because of the value of the u.s. but notably, certain markets, even though they closed earlier, like southern european paper, it didn't come back the way our markets did. so i think there's a reckoning here, more like a giant world margin call, and i'm not sure that consciously traders are making decisions like, oh, i think it's a good day to go in ten-years. i think it's more the big story of liquidation, forced liquidation. >> a lot of traders got caught flat footed today. >> neil, let me ask you about putting money to work here. we saw huge selling in the last

couple of days or so. now we've got a gain. what does this tell you in terms of where this market heads next? are you happy that we're seeing some stability here? do you think we should have seen further losses before the buy on the dip came back? >> i'm not sure i'd classify 19 points as a huge gain, maria -- >> well, it was when we were down 117 points at one point today, neil, so it has come back. >> i've been in board meetings. but the bottom lain is any pull back is the reason to start the buy into equities if you haven't been in equities. nothing's really changed over the last couple of weeks or days. i you know, companies are still making a ton of money, we talk about this all the time, was the fear trade is still out there. you can look at the retail investor, and you look at february alone, they're still putting money into fixed-income mutual funds. so $20 billion net in february went in versus $14 billion net in equities.

so the people who have been in the market are taking money off table, but they're still fearful of the people that haven't been in and don't want to get in. but companies are making a ton of money. the valuations, you're talking about the average pes, what, 13 times earnings. you have a price of sales of 1.39 on the dow jones. you've got dividends, you've got companies raising dividends. the whole play is there, the whole problem, though, bill, is a headwind from washington. we just don't know what impediments are going to put in front of business. >> but you're hanging in there anyway. scotty, your fast money guys must be loving this. the volatility is back, the vix is moving higher once again. the kind of trading that's going on here, we've had enormous come backs in this market the last week or so. >> and we have. and we've had some real breakdowns, bill, over the last three weeks, in fact. you've got some money coming in now. neil talks about more money coming into the market. the question is, what to buy if you're coming in. and if you look what's happened since may 22nd, the day that the

s&p 500 hit its all-time high, you've had a real breakdown in whatwe we're calling the pillar of the market. then even the transports. in fact, i want you to take a look at a chart here. because the transports, which had a huge run-up from the beginning of the year, until we hit that s&p high, were up about 21%. that's the etf, the transports the that we're talking about here. that's the iyt. dow theorists talk about what's going on in that space a lot. since that time, since we hit the s&p high, that has roll over a bit. it's down 5%. some of the rollover in the other sectors that i mentioned, housing, financials, utilities, those dividend payers has been even more severe. now you have to consider what the makeup of the next leg of the stock market is going to look like. >> and despite the rollovers here, sam, you guys are the s&p capital iq have raised your price target on the 12-month basis, even though the market is showing some signs of wear and tear here. you're up to 1710 now.

>> our feeling is we have just entered the top part of where we think the ultimate correction will go. our ultimate technician, mark arbitrator put that range down to 1640. we advised clients, you should be looking to add to equity exposure as we move further into this zone. and we believe that a year from now, we'll be about 10.5% higher. >> all right. we'll leave it there. >> thank you, guys. we'll leave it there. >> chris, hope you get some sleep tonight. >> i'm going to bed now. big dramatic late-lay comeback on the day today. as we heard, the market making this comeback. >> definitely off of our lows. siena, one of the bright spots. hitting a 52-week high after posting a surprise beat on its top and bottom line, thanks to an uptick in demand from its telecom clients. in relation to that, other communication names moving higher, jds uniphase among others moving to the upside

along with cisco hitting a new 52-week high. as bonds rallied and interest rates fell, housing stocks rebounded after selling off earlier this week over concerns on higher interest rates. lennar in the green, and switch over to biotech, acadia pharmaceuticals, jeffries analysts see this name filing for approval for its experimental parkinson's disease drug in the first half of 2014. that is helping the stock move higher, up 12%. now to the losing side, veraphone, makes those credit swiping machines, that stock getting hit, down about 21%. and there's jm smuker, worst performing stock on the s&p 500 today. fourth quarter profits rising 13% thanks to a drop in the price of some of the key commodities it uses in its products including coffee and peanuts, but the company said some of its expenses could rise in fiscal year 2014 and that's what's worrying the street. and lastly, apple shares at a one-week low. there is a report out there that

says that apple is planning iphone trade-ins for the first time to lift sales. a william blair analyst telling me, if this is true, it would be viewed more with skepticism rather than enthusiasm. now we're seeing shares of apple down about 1.5%. maria, back to you. >> seema, thank you so much. >> we're in the final stretch of trading. we've got a market fractionally higher, but well off the lows. the dow industrials up 17. >> we had a 156-point trading range today. very wide. again, as it has been lately. the dow looking to dodge its first three-day losing streak of the year. it hasn't happened yet. we'll hear from a pair of top strategists who say any selling is an opportunity to buy in this market. >> and the big jobs report out tomorrow. obviously, clearly a market mover. larry kudlow will weigh in on jobs, coming up next. >> also, this market weakness sparks a bond market comeback this week. cantor fitzgerald's ceo, howard lutnick will tell us whether

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first three-day losing streak this year. this would be only the second time, if we finish higher today, this would be the second time this year that the dow erased a triple-digit decline. it's happened only one other time. see if it happens here at the close. josh lipton, what's the mood on the floor right now? >> bill, as you guys have been mentioning, it was just a wild session here. you know, if you turned in to cnbc around 11:00 a.m. eastern and checked the market, and now you're just turning back, you might think nothing really happened. but, in fact, the dow had been down triple digits. now, basically clawing its way to the unchanged level, along with traders, everybody had been fixated really on those fluctuations in the currency market, the strength in the yen that you were talking about. the big jobs report tomorrow. of course, also still fixated on that volatility we're seeing in japan. but you got that bounce. everybody was watching the 50-day moving average on the s&p, around 1604. you found support and bounced, now up about 12 points at 1612. in terms of individual movers

today, in the dow, some of the blue chips included verizon, home depot, skpz pfizer. your laggards included merck and chevron. in the s&p, health care, telecom, and utilities are performing. safe bets are working. and you had up the core logic data, rates coming in a bit, and some of these names have been hurt pretty badly. not surprising we're seeing a bounce in that sector today. maria, back to you. >> josh, thanks so much. of course, the focus today is on tomorrow's highly anticipated jobs report. laura tyson, former chairman of the council of economic advisers under president clinton said the job creation problem in this country is a demand problem, plain and simple. >> also with us, our buddy larry kudlow has a big interview tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern time with mitt romney, which we'll talk about in just a minute here. but we welcome both larry and laura to the program today. laura, i know you've been encouraged, as the market has been, by the job growth we've seen in the last few months' reports. but do you feel it's

self-sustaining at this point, or is there something else that can be done, either through monetary policy, fiscal policy, or something else? >> well, i think that we could -- we are right now taking demand out of the economy, through the sequester and fiscal contraction. this has been much remarked upon by the fed, by the congressional budget office. so, essentially, the economy is trying to move forward at a somewhat faster pace. the fed is providing all kinds of support. and the fiscal worries are pull back. so what you end up here is a job outlook and a growth outlook that is not that different from the last several months. there are some areas of strength. construction is one. the energy sector is another. but, overall, if you look at the world economy too, slowing down, there is more we could be doing on the fiscal side to promote job creation that we're not doing it. >> larry, what do you think about laura's assessment? what do you think is holding back job creation? >> well, i think i agree with laura partly.

i think the federal reserve has got to stay stimulus. that may be odd coming from me, but i've been looking at some numbers. i think bernanke should stay right where he is, absolutely buying bonds. as far as fiscal policy is concerned, i'm afraid i disagree with laura about the sequester and the spending cuts. but one of the great things we could do would have corporate business tax reform, right away, lower the rates for large and small businesses and repatriate the money overseas, i think it would be a booster rocket for the economy. >> laura, what do you think? >> well, obviously, on that issue of corporate tax reform, i agree with larry. i am for and have been for a long time, comprehensive corporate tax reform. that brings the rate way down to the 25% level and pays for that by essentially taking away all of the preferences, credits, special subsidies, et cetera. i have also written on the repatriation that occurred after

the 2004 homeland investment act, and based on my assessment of that evidence, yes, i think that if we had a comprehensive corporate tax reform, which ended up giving the opportunity for companies to bring back, what, nearly $2 trillion of cash outside the united states, that money would be put to work on investment, job creation, and boosting consumption in the united states. yes, i think that would be a plus for demand and i'm all for a comprehensive corporate tax reform. >> and you're part of the act, right, economic adviser for tax reform. so you want to have -- you would eliminate, then, the double taxation? >> yes, yes. i think that we must move to essentially a form -- let's call it a hybrid. we, in principle, have worldwide taxation of u.s. company profits. we put off their paying taxes

through deferral. other countries have moved to territorial systems, which essentially says, if you are taxed abroad on your activity, when you bring your money home, you don't confront yet another tax. and i think that makes, in a global world, where companies can choose where to put their headquarters, where to put their activities, we want to make the u.s. the place that companies, u.s. and foreign companies, make their investment and bring their profits to. and i think that a hybrid system with a low corporate rate will get us there. >> all right, i'm running out of time. otherwise, i would get your comment on that, larry, but i want to ask you what you're going to ask mitt romney tonight. >> well, we're going to talk a little bit about the past campaign and then we'll talk a little more about what's going on right now. i'm hoping it will be interesting. i know mr. romney, governor romney quite well and i'm hoping he'll answer some questions. there are a lot of big issues out there, one of which, by the way, is personal tax reform and the irs. while i totally agree with laura

on the corporate tax reform, i really, totally agree with her, i want to go further. i want to take the deductions and the exemptions out of the personal tax code, lower the rates on the other side, and limit the irs power. they have proven to be corrupt and political and the best way to do that is get rid of all of those unnecessary deductions and exemptions. just get rid of them. >> well, we couldn't expect larry kudlow and laura tyson to agree on everything on government policy. that wouldn't work. thank you both for joining us. >> larry, listen to this. we have more developments in the irs scandal to report now. a name in washington, d.c. directly linked to this scandal. >> hi, maria. "the wall street journal" is reporting two irs employees have told congressional investigators an irs lawyer in washington, carter hall, supervised their work in screening tea party groups that began back in 2010. meanwhile, a top irs official at the center of the other scandal

over millions of taxpayers' dollars spent on lavish employee conferences was on the hot seat on capitol hill today. the head of the irs small business division, ferris fink, starred as mr. spock in a "star trek" parody, one of three videos shown at a conference that ended up costing taxpayers $4 million back in 2010. today he offered lawmakers an apology. >> it would not occur today, based upon all the guidelines that exist and, frankly, they were not appropriate at that time neither, mr. chairman, and the fact of the matter is is, it's embarrassing and i apologize. >> but fink clashed with utah representative, jason chaffetz, over his lack of planning

leading up to that anaheim conference. >> when did you become aware of the massive expense? >> i actually did not become aware of the massive expense until much later. i did not know what the expense was at the time of the conference, that we were paying. i did not know what those expenses were. >> and you're the number two person in that division? >> yeah -- >> and you're oblivious to the expenses? >> as i -- >> you're totally ignorant of the expenses? >> now, the irs spent nearly $50 million on some 225 conferences between 2012 and 2010. that anaheim event was the most expensive. bill? >> all right, thank you, hampton pearson, very much. that "star trek" video, that's going to haunt them for a long time. heading towards the close -- >> this is who is looking at your taxes. >> that's who's doing our taxes. 35 minutes left in the trading session. you say, ho hum, up 21 points, but the dow was down 117 points

midday. it's been a big comeback today. >> not so much a ho hum after all. even with today's comeback, the s&p 500 is down better than 3% since hitting that peak just last month. and our guest next says this is nothing more than a huge buying opportunity. we'll get into it. plus, we'll show you how to tell when a correction is a good or bad thing for a hot market. stay with us. ng process, it's easy to follow the progress you're making toward all your financial goals. a quick glance, and you can see if you're on track. when the conversation turns to knowing where you stand, turn to us. wells fargo advisors. [ male announcer ] with free package pickup

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welcome back. stocks making a big comeback today on wall street, but the

sell-off this week has some people saying it's the beginning of a long overdue correction. while a correction always feels bad, sometimes it can be a good thing for the market. jackie deangelis is breaking this story down for us is and has that angle. over to you, jackie. >> part of the answer to your question lies in what kinds of moves exactly we're talking about when we're talking about corrections. technically a correction is move of 10% or more to the downside, a negative move of 20% or more is considered a bear market. in 2012, both the s&p and the dow experienced what we're calling two near-corrections in both the fall and the spring for both indices. now, between april 2nd and june 4th, the s&p shed about 140 points or roughly 9.9%, just under that 10% level. that was off of its closing high of, at that point, which was 1419. also, between september 17th and november 15th, it lost 112 points, or about 7.7%. that was off its 2012 closing high of 14.65. but when all was said and done,

we were looking at an s&p that logged a substantial gain for the year. meantime, with respect to the dow, it was a similar story last year as well. the spring near-correction that we're talking about, between may 1st and june 4th, the index lost 1,177 points. again, just under 10%. and its fall near-correction took place between october 5th and november 15th. the index dropping more than a thousand points. still, again, the dow managing to eke out a nice gain on the year of more than 7%. to bring it back to the question that you initially asked, how do we know if a downside move is good or bad? a lot of analysts and traders out there agreeing that a near-term correction or they call it a pullback can be a very positive thing for the market. it gives investors a chance to pause, to re-enter at lower levels and they can bargain hunt on specific names they thought were overbought at a specific time. back to you, maria. >> thanks so much. >> so is now the time to buy?

on the technical side, it's rich ross, and on the fundamental side, it's steve cortez. these two never agree on anything. so, rich, what do you think? do you like this market or not right now? >> bill, i think this is going to be another one of those situations where steve and i disagree. i am strongly in favor of buying this tape. i think today's action was uniquely bullish. this was a classic bear trap. let's bring up that chart. i'll show you exactly what i mean. you can see this well-defined trend channel we're all familiar with. the market has been holding that a 50-day moving average since november of last year. and today we get a false breakdown, beneath that 50-day, beneath the trend channel, and beneath key psychological support. that has set the stage for a massive reversal in risk appetite. i think you're going to see new highs this summer and a year-end target of the 1779. you want to take advantage of this pullback. >> rich, listen, i will concede

that, clearly, that is a strong chart and strong price action today. if i can use a couple of bruise willis alaugs allusions a here bruce market has been all but unbreakable, but i think it will soon die hard. and the reason for that is japan. it's not just the u.s. or global market. if you take a dollar/yen and overlay it with the s&p year-to-date, you can see those two markets have been incredibly correlated. much of our recent rally hasn't really been about the fundamentals of the u.s. market. it's been about monetary stimulus, particularly out of japan, but there's a problem. guess what, the markets are starting to tell the bank of japan to go and stick it. the yen is rallying extremely hard, broke 100. we saw major stops below that level, and i think given that the japanese stock market is now off 3,000 points in three weeks, that tells us that monetary policy is losing some of its efficacy. and because of that, investors globally should be wary of

stocks. >> i would be a buyer of japan here as well. we have too many armchair economists out there right now. you have to buy the dip, when you're staring at it right in your face. >> one guy risk on, the other, risk off. gave us something to think about here as we head towards the close. >> about 30 minutes until the closing bell sounds. the low, as you know, down 116 points. we're showing is you a gain of 44 going into the close. back above 15,000, bill. >> after this kind of volatility, we have a pair of top traders from the floor to tell us how they're investing amid all the craziness we're seeing here lately. >> and taking a look at president obama's push and how much should he be pushing china's president to stop cyberspying and hacking u.s. targets? he meets with the chinese president tomorrow. we will preview. back in a moment. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 [ trader ] when i'm trading, i'm totally focused.

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wave got some resilience going today, that's for sure. take a look at this market with a gain of 45 points after being down better than 100 on thes.

we were down 116 points a to the lows. the dow actually positive right now. >> so what's going on? what are these guys on the floor doing about it? insights now straight from the trading floor with our friends, matt cheslock from virgin financial, and alan valdez from dme securities. we were joking yesterday, were you buying any dips these days and we had one today. i guess you were nibbling a little bit. >> we broke the 1,600 in the s&p, broke the 50-day moving average, but then we held just below there. that's when we said, let's buy a little. a good sign for the market, that we're going to close above 1,600. >> volume just okay, though. is everybody just sitting on their hands waiting for these jobs numbers? >> it could go either way. if the numbers are bad, the fed stays in. if the numbers are good, maybe the market sells off. >> what's that good number, what's a bad number? right now 165 is what they're expecting. >> what's the whisper number tomorrow, will it be 170, 160?

it will change overnight. we did hold 1,600, which was a good sign. 1585 is probably more support on the downside. that was some real big resistant point. if we can hold that, maybe we do get a pop higher. buy the dip dope, as they say. >> are you watching japan as closely as some of our other guests are? tell me how that fits into all of this? >> this morning, that drop in the yen, that was major. from 99 to 96, you don't see that. and that's what started this downfall in the market in america here today. yeah, we definitely keep our eyes on that very closely. >> uh when get a crowded trade like that, you get some violent moves. that's what you saw here and that's what the worry's been on the market. everyone's been so positive, so bullish on market, that if it does reverse, you can see a violent move down low per >> matt, alan, thank you so much. >> we've got about 23 minutes left in the trading session and we're strengthening a little bit. but, yes, this market is definitely waiting for tomorrow's jobs report. a thinly traded market today. everybody kind of hanging in

there waiting for tomorrow. >> they're just waiting for the number. meanwhile, we do see money moving into bonds, fleeing into bonds today. is all this talk about that great rotation from bonds into stocks wrong? we've got the ceo of the bond giant kantor fitzgerald, howard lutnick coming your way next. stay with us. at farmers we make you smarter about insurance,

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. welcome back. stocks having a surprising turnaround heading into the close. we have the dow jones industrial average up 41 points. treasury seesawing as the markets are waiting tomorrow's employment numbers. >> bob pisani has been spending the day and right now he's with a special guest, bcg partner's chairman and ceo, howard lutnick. welcome, guys, bob, you first. >> a lot of fun to talk to howard lutnick, chairman and ceo of bge partners. one of the big topic here, the low volumes we've been seeing all over the world. you're big in financial services everywhere, stocks, bonds, foreign exchange. what's the volume story right now, where is the growth? who's trading around the world right now? >> equity in volumes have been so lousy and they've been lousy for so long. but in the last two weeks, you had bernanke talking about maybe taking his hand off in this

quantitative easing and wlahat happened to treasury volumes and interest rate volumes? exploded. almost doubling the last two weeks of may. will that continue? i don't know, but that was fascinating, just talking about taking his hand off, moved the market. you have australia going out and saying, you know what, i liked what happened in japan. i'm going to de-value australia. and once you get these sort of chaotic movements, you know, a central bank saying i'm going to devalue my currency, just when they're talking about it -- >> good for your business. >> this creates -- great for our business. so the fundamentals of bgc's business are improving. >> so howard, what about, you know, the impact as the fed starts moving, actually. what kind of impact do you see in terms of money moves into bonds versus stocks, once the fed actually does begin the tapering? >> well, you know, look, low interest rates are spectacular for stocks. that's why we've had these great numbers. and let's face it, they make bonds boring. i don't know what 0.2 is for a

two-year know, but it's certainly not an interest rate. it's like going out and buying a starbucks coffee with your interest. as those rates come up, you're going to see much more volatility in bonds and it will make bonds much more volume-based. so the for the business of bonds, we're just waiting, waiting, waiting for the end of quantitative easing, and that will change things. i think interest rates, bad for stocks, more fun more bonds. >> but you're not seeing a great rotation yet out of stocks into bonds? >> no, no, low interest rates are good for stocks, period. they're just good for stocks. they're not good for volumes of stocks, but good for the direction of stocks. i think as long as interest rates are near zero, which bernanke has said, through 2015, fundamentally, stocks are a good place to be, but so is art, so is, you know, vintage cars. so is anything -- real estate, spectacular for real estate. why, because no interest rates means that building, which looked expensive, at low interest rates, is dirt cheap. >> but the water cooler talk, as you know, howard, is what happens when the tapering begins. do we get a spike in rates?

i mean, goldman sachs said last week, they would sell treasuries here, because they do anticipate a spike in rates. ubs said, no, let's buy on the dips, because we don't see that happening. so what do you think the markets will do when the tapering does actually begin? >> okay. so, definitely, when the tapering begins, like, everybody in the world is watching the fed's hand. and when they reach in to try to take out the $2 trillion in extra cash that's in the market, everybody knows interest rates are going to jump up. now, they're only going to jump up maybe a half a percent. so to real people, half a percent is not much. if you're in the bond business, it's a huge thing. but when is the key. and you know what, two years ago, i said this was ridiculous timing. i'll say it again. no time soon. while our economy is growing at two-odd percent, he ain't going near it. at 0.2 interest rate, our economy is only growing 2%. years left of quantitative easing. it ain't happening anytime soon.

>> what about commercial real estate business? you own a bunch of brokerages. >> commercial real estate, absolutely on the ascendency. why? that same answer. dead low interest rates means it seems like a really good place to buy. let's face it, if you thought interest rates were going to be high. but if interest rates are 0.2, 0.3, what are you seeing happening? madison avenue, right. 650 madison, $1.3 billion. >> but howard, isn't that the point? >> the gm building, $3.4 billion. it's a nice piece of real estate but $3.4 billion?! it must be covered in gold. >> howard, isn't that important in terms of rates. the fed may very well begin the tapering this year, but we're not going to see a takeaway, or rates taking off, you know, going to such significant levels. so why would we actually see an enormous change in the market, whereas rates are still going to be not so competitive with

stocks. >> right. they're just not. look, stocks are going to do great. but people have to find yield. and you know what, there are little blips every now and again, but they'll have to find yield. that's why our stock has done so well. up almost 50% this year. and even going up 50%, our dividend is still over 8%. so people have to find stocks with yields. so bcg partners have a great yield, other companies with great yield is the place where people are going to have. we have a real estate business, we produce a lot of cash, and have great yield. >> are you going to keep that dividend? >> we absolutely plan to keep our dividend. it is rock solid. we sold a 6% of our gross revenue, 6% of our revenue to nasdaq for $1,234,000,000. we close on the 28th. we'll keep this dividend for the long, foreseeable future. >> are you going -- war you going to buy next. >> why'd you sell espeed? i thought electronic trading was the future.

what happened? >> okay. so, we just talked about quantitative easing, how bernanke is keeping his hand on volumes. so u.s. treasury volumes last year, this year, down -- our revenues were down 7% into these giant deficits. so i think that's going to last for years. eventually, it will come back strong, and i think nasdaq, eventually, will have made a great acquisition. but for the next two years, i just didn't see it growing. and the fact is, we can buy businesses at great, great yields. maybe, you know, maybe 20% return on acquisitions and the treasury business, i thought, was going to be constrained for a while because of quantitative easing. quantitative easing is so weird, the u.s. government selling the ten-year note to itself, the fed. i mean, what does that mean? we're financing our budget deficit overnight. that's crazy. >> $750 million, plus 10% of nasdaq, right? >> $750 million of cash, 10% of nasdaq. our company will have $1.1 billion in cash, our 8.8% dividend is safe and great opportunities to grow. >> howard, we'll leave it there.

thank you so much, bob and howard. we'll see you soon. >> see you, bob. >> howard's one smart guy. very smart businessman. doesn't sound very bullish on the economy, though, right now. heading towards the close. we are up 39 points after having been down 117 on the dow. so a big come back there. >> sure is. both of our next guests say investors should be rushing into, not out of this market, during sell-offs. their buy on the dip strategies are next. >> also, today on big data download, when is tmi really too much information? see how much data overload is costing companies and individuals right now on bigdata.cnbc.com. looking at covered call strategies to generate income? with fidelity's options platform, we've completely integrated every step of the process, making it easier to try filters and strategies... to get a list of equity options... evaluate them with our p&l calculator... and execute faster with our more intuitive trade ticket. i'm greg stevens, and i helped create

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ten minutes left in the trading session. the dow trying to avoid a three-day losing streak. it hasn't happened yet in 2013. >> amazing. >> that is amazing. >> the dow is still down better than 2% this past week. is this the time to buy on the dip or is there more downside o come? we are bringing in heather hughes from sun america funds right now and chris isaac from u.s. trust. good to see you both. >> good to see you. >> and you both believe now is the time to put money in this market? >> still? >> the little engine that could. looks like we're plowing into

the close here, so the market seems somewhat resilient. every dip seems to be being bought right now. the fact that people are on the sidelines, still buying all these dips may say that investors are still underinvested in these markets, even at these levels. >> chris? >> i agree wholeheartedly with heather. you look at the action of the market recently, this is so emblematic of a change in leadership. we had leadership at the defensive levels between january through april, driving this market forward. completely second-guessed the entire way. we hit 1660 as an all-time high and now we're pulling back 3.5%. and this is the switch to cyclicals that's going on. it doesn't happen overnight, it takes a few weeks and there's always an excuse. and the excuse is that the fed is going to take away the punch bowl tomorrow. and that just simply is not a high probability. >> lately, bad news has been good news. jobs numbers come out tomorrow. the expectation is 165,000. what if it's appreciably below that? is that good news for the market? >> jobs report tomorrow.

bad news may finally be bad news. >> you think? >> recently, we get a good jobs number, markets sell-off. a bad jobs data and the markets increase to the fed may continue stimulating the economy. but due to all these fed taper talk from the hawks as of late, bad news may finally become bad news torms if we do get a bad number. >> but you still want to buy it? >> buy on the dip mentality. a 5% to 7% pullback, even over the summer, would be completely normal. advisers that i work with are telling me that they've been waiting for the world to come to an end. and you're sitting up and missing all of the upside. >> chris, what are you going to buy? >> the waiting list is very, very long. the yen carrier trade is the reason mostly for the volatility that's going on. that's a good sign you use these weak periods to buy, buy the cyclicals. emerging markets have significantly underperformed. own those for a three-year period and start buying them now and do that across the board in industrials and technology.

>> the japanese market is down 3,000 points in the last three weeks or something. that's not a reason to be worried about our market as well? we wouldn't follow them at some point? >> not necessarily. it's lake a light switch. we're in a dimmer switch mentality right now. all of that was hot money. i'm more interested in investable money, not speculative money. and that is what makes a good market. and that's the market we're in right now. >> a lot of the ceos of wealth management companies that we've been talking to, whether it's brady dougan at credit suisse, or sergio ermotti at ubs all say 30% of their cloonts are still in cash, but this is not just in the last few weeks. this is in the last seven quarters. what is it going to take to get that money moving into stocks and higher-yielding securities? >> a growth rate above 2%, an unemployment rate closer to 6%, and ultimately a fed that says that everything is okay. those are three things that we're not going to see in conjunction, so there will be a massive, skeptical rally through this whole process. at the end of the day, this is what makes a bull market. as long as profits continue to

go high and valuations don't get out of whack, and that's what we have. we're the same way. high-cast levels across the board. >> 30%? >> not as high as that. >> what are you buying? >> $3.6 trillion still in corporate balance sheets right there. a lot of cash waiting to be deployed. you want to get ahead of that. also, 70 million baby boomers looking to retire. you can't do that solely in fixed income. you want to look still at those dividend-paying stocks. got to love them. >> that's what you call buying on the dip, though? >> thanks so much. >> good to see you. >> we'll take a break and come back with the closing countdown for what has been a crazy thursday. . and after the bell, charles schwab's liz ann saunders says don't worry too much about this sell-off. why she thinks ultimately it's a good thing for your portfolio and her take on tomorrow's big jobs number. you're watching the "closing bell" on cnbc, first in business worldwide.

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[ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. so many different stories today. unbelievable. this is today's trade. up 40 points on the open this morning, down 117 at the low. now we're hitting highs for the day, a gain of 65. what was wagging this market, it was the currency trade, as that long dollar, short yen trade was unwinding and going the other direction. so as the dollar went lower, i'll show you this chart, showing the dollar yen against

the dow, as it all came lower, now the dollar yen has gone flat and the stock market has come back here. a lot of action on the floor of the new york stock exchange, because general motors is going into the s&p 500. welcome back gm. hj heinz is going out, thanks to warren buffett buying all that ketchup. >> what a long, strange trip it's been for gm. i was saying earlier, if only warren could buy a $30 billion company every month, we'd have a lot of business. >> so a lot of traders scurrying to get those trades underway here. what do you make of this turnaround today, especially ahead of tomorrow's very important jobs report? >> it was quite an interesting trade, and the dollar/yen trade helped it out. and the sp came back down. we've had the s&p oversold since yesterday, 1621 on that level. and what we saw today with the dollar weakness and the yen strength, when the dollar gets oversold and the euro is overbought at the same time, that's very good for u.s. equity markets and we saw that turnaround again today. >> a crazy turnaround.

and it's still going higher. the dow up 71 points as we head out for this trading day. and tomorrow morning, stay tuned, "squawk box" will have the unemployment report for you at 8:30 a.m. eastern time. that will definitely set the tone for tomorrow. in the meantime, more "closing bell" with maria bartiromo. i'll see you tomorrow. it is 4:00 on wall street. do you know where your money is? hi, everybody. welcome back to the "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo on the floor of the new york stock exchange. a hung reversal on wall street today. big reversal of fortunes. the dow coming back from a 100-point sell-off to avoid the first three-day losing streak of the day, finishing higher at the highs of the day, up 78 points. real money moving into this market at the end of the day. the dow up 78. the nasdaq composite finishing in the plus column with a gain of 22.5 points on the session, two-thirds of 1%, and the s