hey, good day. enjoy it while it lasts. always more right here on "mad money." i'm jim cramer, i'll see you tomorrow. hot housing. can it carry the economy? case shiller today up 12% year over year, and to tell us if it's all real we have a special guest from the hit bravo tv show "million dollar listing" and it sounds like president obama launched a war on coal today. that's a sure fire job cutter and cost increase for america, and what happens to the keystone pipeline? no decision. senator joe manchin will join us live to give us his take on the shape and russia thumbs their nose at turning over eric

snowden. it'sor it's an indication of how far america has fallen. have we become impotent? all that and much more coming up in "the kudlow report" beginning right now. all right. first up tonight hot housing. case shiller prices up 12% from last year and new home sales, get this, up 29% year on year. that's the best level in five years. plus, prices of new homes have jumped 10%. question, is it real? will the housing market carry the economy? can we depend on it you? know it, might be real. my home price is going up. is yours? i hope it is. joining me now, top real estate brokers and i mean top. ryan surhan and frederik ecklund and you probably recognize these two why bravo's "million dollar listing new york ""and joining us also is don peebles, ceo and

chairman of the peebles corporation. ryan, i go to you first. you had not only case shiller numbers big on prices. new home sales big on prices and sales, existing homes big on pricing and sales. that's basically been the great story so i ask you is it real? will it last? can i rely on it? >> yes, absolutely. it's a fire we're feeling in new york and i know frederik can attest to it, too, as inventory continues to decline, prices will continue to go up. as john sees his buddy steve sold his home for "x" price he'll want "x" plus and that's what we're seeing and it's everywhere and it's going to continue to go. >> are you getting people bidding against one another? a guy offers at "x" and somebody comes in with "y" which is 20% higher than "x," is that happening? >> 100%, on everything else in manhattan. bidding wars everywhere and you have to be prepared as to come in with your best and final. madison park north, we had the

price set and four people come in and attack and that's it. it's an all-out war. >> let me ask you this, outside of manhattan, what's going on and i'm trying to generalize, maybe you don't know or look at it. what we used to call main street participating in this housing boom and i'll tell you why i s. a lot of people are saying institutional investors are coming in to buy these homes and they are the guys bidding up the prices or they are the guys taking the inventory off the market, and that you can't really rely on it, that they are weak hands and we don't know what they are going to do. is it people, is it institutions, investors, homeowners? who it is? >> i think it's first important to understand that we're coming off a really bad market, right, when we talk about these things. 2008 and 2008-'09, '10 they were difficult so when we're looking at these numbers jumping back up, all we can agree on is that you can only see the bottom of the market in the back mirror and that's what we're doing now

and all the people on the sidelines, including the people you just mentioned, they are all jumping in at the same time and that's what we're having what i say is an uncomfortable market. it's a vorocious appetite. there's a $15 million price and i have a bidding war. it's chaotic out there right now. >> how about $850,000, which isn't middle class, let's come down, it's new york. how about an $850,000 buyer, what's out there for her? >> well, $1 million in new york doesn't get you very much. >> about a million. >> the mansion tax which is $1 million, a mansion. you can hardly get a parking lot, parking space these days. >> you can't hardly get a park lot for $1 million in new york. >> don peebles, i'll come back to you. you're a veteran in this business and a successful one is

this for real, or is this a flash in the pan? some people are saying we're in a housing bubble which blows me away because i think real prices are 30% from the peak back in 2007. but is it real and is it dependable? >> absolutely. the gateway market is definitely for real. got to look at this market at what happened in 2008 when we really went under water. taking a balloon in a pool and/or an air-inflated ball and merging it under water and sitting on it. once it pops off it pops back, not only to the water level, totally comply constrained. the faucets have been turned off throughout the country so the gateway cities, new york, washington, d.c., miami, san francisco, los angeles, all are supply constrained. >> biggest price gains. let's go down there, from the case shiller, biggest price gains. hit a lot of them. san francisco, phoenix, las vegas, atlanta. those are the absolute hottest price cities in the country.

>> yeah, and because those were the ones that went down the furthest and were the latest to come back. >> right. >> phoenix and scottsdale was a dead market. las vegas, where we have significant holdings, was dead. now, they are coming back, and so they are meaningful increases and on a percentage basis they seem to be gigantic, but in terms of absolute dollars and getting back to where they were pre-recession, they are not there yet. look, in miami, i got a call last week from a person who bought from us in a condo building at a premium price in 2006, and he called me to thank me to tell me that he just sold his apartment for twice what he paid us for. >> wow, that's absolutely terrific. ryan, what about the mortgage rates? >> sure. >> the last couple of weeks, more or less, 100 basis points, full percentage point. does that have any impact on your business? >> absolutely. you've got to take into account, too. asking about that $850,000 apartment. >> still looking for that. >> might even go down to 650.

he took me right away to a million, good broker that he is, and he said i couldn't even get a parking spot. i'll go down to 500, all right. there's got sob some middle class people somewhere, 500,000 in new york city. >> one percentage point increase in interest rates on a $500,000 loan is going to kouflt an extra $110,000 over the life of the loan, so that's what's real, okay? the fact that the prices are -- >> you can write off a third of it. >> fact that prices are going up, that's great, but the fact that interest rates will continue to creep up and even ate historical low and if they go up another point in the next two months, they will still be too low. all the buyers who say i don't know if i pay the same 25,000. >> i bought stuff in the '70s, a in the '80s, 12%, 15% mortgage rates and actually sold for a profit.

it all depends on where, when, how and why. are people buying faster? in other words, sometimes when interest rates go up, it accelerates. the people say well, they will keep going up. bernanke basically told you they are going to go up for the next year. the fed is going to stop buying bonds and then for the next couple of years after that they are going to raise the target rate so let's say, you know, leave bernanke out of it, but rates are going to go up for the next three, four, five years. that's very likely so wouldn't the buyer want to buy sooner in order to get the rates before they go up higher? >> no, because -- >> what do you mean no? >> i'm giving you good economic theory, free market capitalism. >> i appreciate, that larry. the buyer is buying today because everyone is agreeing that the price will be higher in the future. >> right. >> so, i mean, money is basically free. i mean, developers today are fighting over the few -- lots of lines to build on in new york and in new york there isn't

enough. the few buildings that are open for sales right now in no, just literally, thousands of people on the waiting list and they are settling out immediately. >> it's a supply in manhattan, supply constrained market. getting ready to build on tribeca in the heart of tribeca, and when we forecast our budget about a year ago in terms of revenue versus where we are today, we're up almost 50% based on market activity. tribeca on average right now is over 2,000 a square foot so what that does is it pushes up land values. land values in manhattan about 18 months ago for prime development sites, say the drake hotel site which is on park avenue and 57th street, one of the best locations in the world, that sold for about $300 a buildable square foot ten years ago today it would be $1,000 a buildable square foot or more. >> there's a bubble in new york? >> it's a gateway global city.

it's one of the top ten global cities in the world, and when you compare it to london, for example, it's university priced. >> compare it to other global cities, it's underpriced and that's what's driving. a lot more room in manhattan. >> residential markets, do you see that kind of overpricing -- i'll ask you the same thing. is there a bubble? >> no, i think new york is catching up. i think it's about time new york and the rest of the eyes is playing at the same level as others are playing at. n new york now you have security of title, right, no tax levees like in asia. won't buy in land op, too expensive. >> high taxes here in lorkt. >> it's property, it's the american dream and now too expensive to rent. >> more expensive to rent than it is to build. >> is that a change in the last

four months. >> january 1st the world flipped on its edge and everybody that's been sitting for the last year years -- >> you believe collectively this thing can keep going on. we'll let the "new york times" write up the pes milk side but the reis the is that can go on for two or three years. >> we're actually at the beginning of the five-year cycle, new york or l.a. >> gateway cities. new york, we're in the midst of at least a five-year market adjustment. it's going to become priced on a global basis. >> i've got to get out of here. >> fascinating. at least no bubble for now. you're going to keep the had housing market going. >> catch ryan and f-fricke drik on "million dollar listings new york." next up, president obama's big

speech on so-called climate change today was really a big attack on coal and another no decision on the keystone pipeline. oh, yeah. he turned the epa loose. west virginia democratic senator joe manchin already here. he'll tell us what he thinks about all this. hint, he ain't happy and later the obama straights has made a simple request to china and russia to turn over nsa leaker edward snowden and they numbered their noses at the u.s., and you know what else? that pisses me off. but, you know what, folks, president obama would make me real happy if he threw some keystone pipeline at me right now. that would be free market capitalism, the best path to prosperity. i'm kudlow. we're coming back tonight. (announcer) scottrade knows our clients trade

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today for the sake of our children and the health and safety of all americans i'm directing the environmental protection agency to put an end to the limitless dumping of carbon pollution from our power plants and complete now pollution standards for both exsiting and new power plants. >> president obama denied it during his 2012 re-election

campaign, but there's no denying that this white house is now waging a full-fledged war on coal. get this. he's also backing off keystone and seems to be unleashing the epa as part of an anti-growth climate change agenda. caught in the crossfire here, thousands and thousands of american jobs. blue collar high-paying jobs. here to reax act to president obama's new climate plan, west virginia democratic senator joe manchin. mr. manchin, as always, sir, we welcome you back. what i heard, you tell me, was there a direct unleashing of the epa against the coal industry, existing plants and new ones? >> i don't think it can be any more clear. then senator obama representing illinois, i was governor of the state of west virginia, our staffs worked together and we understood they were working on all the new future gen and a lot

of the things we had in our country, how he's forgotten to where this country has gotten, to the coal that's produced the energy for this country for so long. it's made this country and built the still that made the guns and factories and disregarded it like that. they will be depending on coal, larry, through 2040. that's his own energy department. eia's estimates. that's 35% of our energy. i don't know where it's going to come from. it's going to drive the price up unbelievable, and ton of that thousands and thousands of jobs. this is not a war on coal, it's a war on jobs and a war on america. >> one of his advisers, senator, it's interesting i picked this up from some of the reporting, daniel schragg, white house science adviser if i'm not mistaken, a harvard geochemist of some kind. he apparently advised obama to declare war against coal, but the point i want to ask you about, senator, a few months ago epa put out draft regulations on

coal plants that most of the coal ceos said they could never meet. now they are going after existing coal plants so they are going to end this thing even sooner and put all these people out of work even sooner. >> there's 8 billion tons of coal being burned in the world today, 8 billion tons. the president of the united states and the united states of america, we burn 1 billion tons and he's attacked this industry completely, would like to shut it down and stop it completely. does he really believe or his adviser really believe that's going to clean up the environment and the climate when there's still 7/8 of the world eats coal consumption, 7 billion tons, being consumed in other countries and we're not going to have any domicile over them so nothing makes sense at all, we burn coal cleaner than any nation on earth, any part of this world and we could do more if the government could work with us. it's here and will be here for quite some time. let's show that we can do it. some of these countries aren't even using simple basically with the scrubbers.

they are not using, if you will, the -- the different types of pollution controls we already have in place. they haven't even used those yet, and we've done it with low nox burners, scrs and all those things and they will go to a technology that's not been perfected or developed, and i've said this, larry, if it's not obtainable, it's not reasonable. how in the world they can be doing this and truly destroying the economy of america and thousand of jobs. >> let me ask you a couple of questions. first of all, the coal industry is now competing, as you know, with the natural gas industry. the argument is natural gas is cleaner. what's -- putting the epa aside. what's coal going to do about the natural gas challenge? >> here's the thing. we've been through these cycles. coal and gas can live together. you know what, in west virginia we have some of the largest wind farms east of the mississippi. we're all in when it comes to energy. all we're asking for is the leader of the free world, our president, to be in with us so

we're less dependant on foreign oil and we can do that state by state. i truly cannot believe the direction they are taking and not even knowing the dynamics of what's going on. >> everybody -- are you sure? is everybody sure that the science is right here? i mean, it's a very controversial thing. there's some very distinguished scientists say there may be some climate change issues, but they are not manmade issues. is the coal business taking the rap for some bad science? >> well, i think that they have been the whipping boy for quite some time, since the president has been here and his administration has been here. there's nobody in west virginia that wants to breathe dirty air or drink dirt water. that's not it. we've done more in the last two decades to clean up the environment. but in west virginia, larry, we believe the economy and environment can go hand in hand in the balance. right now we've got the ying and the yang, the right and the left and all fighting all the time and you're seeing what's happening in washington here. if you want to fix something, if you want to attack problems that we have, what we should be doing

is looking at how to make energy more available, more affordable, be able to kind of help industry, create more jobs. that's really where the issues should be. >> we talked about this earlier just to follow up and then i want to ask you about the keystone pipeline before i lose you. >> sure. >> can the coal industry compete with natural gas? that's -- natural gas burns cleaner and natural gas, of course, is cheaper. >> sure. >> the market share of nat gas has gone way up. the market share of coal as a power has gone way down. how is that going to play how the? >> people in the coal industry understand the different cycles we go through, and if natural gas is at $2 and $3 it's hard to compete, but you already have so much infrastructure in this country that's depending on fossil coal, that's depending on the coal industry, and to retrofit those things, unless they are doing it like they are doing it now through executive order, and i've said this. i don't think the president has the authority to be able to

regulate what's not been legislated so we're going to find out. we need to fix this in the legislature. this is public policy that affects this entire country, and him putting his will is not right. not the correct way to do it. >> so the epa standards maybe challenged, the whole process may be challenged. >> waiting for that, appreciate it. call one, sir. he mentioned the keystone xl pipeline and would only approve it if there's no significant exacerbation of carbon pollution. the state department has already said there's no significant pollution. when's the president going to finally give us the okay for the keystone pipeline? >> look at the vote that we had in the senate. how many times have you seen us have a bipartisan vote overwhelmingly? and the bottom line in west virginia, my beautiful little state, it's pretty common sense. we would rather buy from our friend than our enemies. i don't know why this administration doesn't get it. >> he won't do it. he won't take on the greenies. how many studies can we have?

the state department has already done the work. they said it's clean. it's absolutely okay. obama today says we have to wait longer. i don't understand that. it's like waiting for gadeau. >> can you imagine living in the greatest nation on the earth and not having energy policy and nothing makes sense. we should be able to say the oil that our best friendliest nation, our best partner, the oil they are producing is going to go somewhere. >> right. >> they are building the pipeline to the west coast so you know it's going to go to the asia rim, if you will, china more than likely. don't you think we ought to have access to that to make us less dependant on foreign oil and we've seen the results of what we have to do and fight and defend ant sacrifices because of the energy and the oil. >> i'll tell you, senator, i've got to go. a pleasure to see you. i'm a free market guy, you know that. >> me, too. this is not right. >> let the free market generate and allocate all these energy

resources, including the pipeline. this country will be independent. we will hire more workers at higher wages. that's my short take. >> i agree. >> reporter: >> senator manchin, you're terrific to come on. >> bye-bye. >> the supreme court makes a major decision in a big civil rights case. cnbc's jackie d'angelis joins us next with the latest on the voting rights act.

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that could have major implications for voters. cnbc's jackie d'angelis is here to explain it a story. good evening, jackie. >> good evening, larry. supreme court knocked down a key part of the 1965 voting rights act. the goal at that time was to force state and districts with a history discrimination to get federal approval before changing their voting laws, but today the court ruled that the formula used to determine which states are affected is unconstitutional. that's because it relies on old data that may not reflect the actual population of the state. now this, could clear the way for states like texas, alabama, mississippi, to proceed with voter i.d. laws. president obama said he was deeply disappointed with the ruling, larry. >> we'll have to leave it there. a debate here, a whole segment. >> there always is. >> no time to the. thank you very much. appreciate it. folks, i don't know about you, but china and russia thumbing their noses at our great country over this traitorous nsa leaker edward snowden really ticks me off.

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welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm larry kudlow. in this half hour stocks bounced back on some solid economic news that a whole lot of people now are getting real bearish on profits which, as you know from this program, are the mother's milk of stocks, so we're going to take a look at. this may not be as bad as you think, and where will the imfederation reform battle leave the republican party? can the gop turn its potential minefield into a real opportunity? we are going to get an answer from former republican national chairman ed gillespie. but first up, russian president vladamir putin confirmed today nsa leaker edward snoweden is in transit and moscow and refused to hand him over to the u.s. saying he's a free man. of course, russia isn't the only country ignoring cooperation and china said the same thing.

they are thumbing their noses at us, and i don't hike it one bit. russia is probably downloading nsa secrets right four. that's that is me bet and i agree with the "wall street journal's" breath stevens today. we may be in an age of american impotence when it comes to foreign policy, i don't like it but that might be the reality. joining me now is cnbc contributor howard dean, former vermont governor and former dnc chair and welcome ambassador richard williamson. china thumbed their nose at us clear as day. not hong kong but china and russia is doing exactly the same thing. putin is sticking it to us. what are we going to do about this? what are we going to do about this? >> first of all, as an attorney i'm dismayed at how this was handled. as a former diplomat i'm strund. we have a situation where we're

gone from leadership in the world where nobody dares spit on superman's cage and now we're clark kent everyone thinks they can take advantage of us, a lack of respect and know they can thumb their nose at the obama administration. it's very dangerous and very dangerous for u.s. interests. russian ambassador says snoweden extradition is unacceptable. hong king, run by beijing, apparently said the same thing. our attorney general holder was on the phone with hong kong authorities saying all the paperwork was in order and you let snowden go anyway. you can't let these guys push us around. >> this has been going on for a long time. i disagree with rich, going on for a long time and the opposite

tablgt which is to put boots on the ground where we don't like the opposition is going to hurt the country. i don't think we have let influence as we want. most power it will country in the world. the mistake we've made is reacting to ed nard snowden. he is sharing information that at least in the whether it comp nices ourself. we're making too big a deal. the press is expected to make a big deal out of it. we ought to be discussing these things behind closed doors. >> you're absolutely right about that because this fellow garden" maybe it impossible so

information, let me ask to rich williamson on this. rich, i don't see the protests, even in tim mic leader. i don't see the president searing anything. this kit may have a lot more key credit. they are pugging in computer and get it all off a the ole they know that we have. this where where i disagree with howard is the alternative of become week. thuk their number the ur, fill our secrets. there's a wide spectrum of tools

in the united states foreign policy toolbox and they should be employed, including having the national security adviser, not some unnamed white house source, speak out on saturday about the cops againsts. >> that's what i want. just -- i want to see senior officials do that. >> you've been in the chairs, the assistant secretary of state, what would you do? >> well, i would have suggested if the president asked me is that he made some comment about this on friday or saturday about the importance of china's cooperation with us on the extradition request. we have an extradition treaty with china and say it has consequences to our relationship. that would have el crated it

where there a would have been importantly i would say whatever progress was made in the shirt sleeve california would be frittered away if they allowed this person who is giving away vital national security to other countries and to the world if they allow him to escape. they had a legal obligation which they failed up to. and i would krahn the line earlier. >> there has to be a penalty. that's just talk. thavm either has to be weapons or it has to be commercial sanctions and that's a goes thing to do. >> i would smaking a bill deal. they have been suing on us, i

would get ♪en off the light of the yes yes and let someone else worry about it. i doubt this guy is a shut to our snags security. >> senator fin fine fan, and i respempt, a xhempt could characterized much differently than you would open ring thing for my fred. i'ming hearing delicious reports that howard dine is jut going to ask you? most likely no. the needia having fun with that >> i knowed a americans.

most likely. that's a significant of -- you never say never. if hillary pens, i'll certain certainlyin the stocks had a motdest rebound today come bang with 400 on now everyone is getting bearish on becomes the. out there owning it. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is

"how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives.

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when the conversation turns to knowing where you stand, turn to us. wells fargo advisors. . some good economic news on housing, consumer confidence, business investment and all that, by the way, is a win for ben bernanke, but it also brings us closer to ending qe bond buying which i think would be way premature. that's my view. plus, now there's a lot of whining about second quarter profits and on top of all that there seems to be a stampede out of bonds. at least china eased up on their short-term rates. i've got to tell you, folks, i'm not a terrible bear. i don't think this correction is over yet. here we have "forbes" executive editor and art hogan of lazard

capital markets. i'm hearing a lot of whining about markets. the argument is being made that the preannouncements are 7-1 negative. okay. i don't like that either, but that didn't wreck the first quarter. will it wreck the second quarter? >> it sure won't. can't look at that number in a vacuum and say there's more pre-announcements on the negative side. there always are and that ratio is 5-1. had a great quarter. it's a magnitude. how much are they taking that pre-announcement down and how much they declaring they are going to miss by? record earnings in the first quarter. probably will see the s&p 500 earn 4%. that's the average estimate or more. probably will see 68% of companies beat the estimates. that's the game we're in right now and that's not negative catalyst that will slow us down. >> important to get the profits conversation going because we've all been obsessed about bernanke. very important things that are changing the landscape, no

question, but let us not forget that earnings are the mother's milk of stocks. >> i'm not excited about 4% earnings growth. yes, it's a record. here's where the downside lies, guys. talking about less than 1% revenue growth. i realize how great american corporations have been at increasing productivity, but i'm not sure that can be sustained. we have an administration on the foot on the throat of free market capitalism. when was the last president -- i think you worked for ronald reagan. >> did you hear him today? hear his attack on the coal industry? >> what i like about the bernanke getting away from qe, it's going to finally i think put the attention on the fiscal side which is where i think we've been really wrong. >> you're right, but i just want to add to that. an interest rate adjustment can be a powerful thing, and you're going to have rheal ter the valuations in the stock market. we're going through that night. the other story i want to talk about, a stampede out of bonds,

stampede out of bonds, and it's apparently coming from retail bond investors. that's a direct consequence of what bernanke has been talking b.by the way, i believe bernanke. i believe they are going to get out of qe and soon after that we'll start raising interest rates whether i like it or not how tough is this going to be, a stampede out of bonds because the evidence doesn't say it's going into stocks, not yet. >> that's the point, an where is it going? going to the sideline in that's not productive for anybody. the scary thing, larry, the typical bond investor has done very well since the end of the recession so the bond market has done very, very well. and when you get your june statement, if you have a typical allocation into bonds it's not going to be pretty and what happens now that we have the number of dealers that actually handle these orders has shrunk, it's hard, not enough liquidity in the system, if there is it stampedes, or you could see how much larger reaction is necessary. >> but these hedge funds, let's look at the hedge funds in the banks, were heavily leveraged

off of the low interest rates to buy bonds, heavily leveraged. positive carry and making capital gains, too. that's all coming to an end. that's a little disruptive to the financial markets. >> coming to an end here and don't forget, china's money supply that is increased much, much faster than ours, pulling the plug on the credit pluck. bernanke is going to leave at the end of the year or sao there after and say i saved the ship and the economy and wine down qe, and i think when yellin comes in which is mohr most likely she will ramp it up again because the economy is not going to be in good shape if you look at the labor participation rate, if you look at personal disposable income. >> look at the inflation rate. >> the economy is not in good shape. >> the price of gold, deflation here. these are reasons why i would prefer that mr. bernanke. like to see a little stability in the system but what i want is

pushing in 150 to 250, 250, 260 today, if normal relationships hold up it's going to 3.4% to 4%, the nominal growth of gdp. that will require major stock market adjustments, it really is. >> and your point the 1.5 to 2%, the 100 basis points, never happens in a four-week stretch. it's not the magnitude of the economy. our economy can live with a 3.5 ten-year. if it happens between now and 2014 then you have a major re-calibration. it's the pace at which things happen, not the ultimate number we get to. >> i agree and that's why i don't think the correction is over. the world is not coming to an end. i've been optimistic, i'm not really a bearing but i'm saying we're correcting and i don't

think -- not government bonds, but you know what? i would be ought of stocks right now and wait for the scenario to in puck in. >> favorite investment. >> oracle doing some interesting things. just did the hookup with microsoft. actually going to do some business together. threw the kitchen sink in with the last quarter. i think it's going to be an interesting stock next year. >> thanks very much. appreciate it. now, the immigration bill. that battle moves to the house, sand there any way for the dwgo to turn this into a positive for the party? former rnc chair ed gillespie is up with us next. please stay with us. i'm larry kurd low. so we could head back to the dealership. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. test drive! [ male announcer ] but we still need your signature.

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for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. the senate is set to vote tomorrow morning to adopt what's known as the border security surge. it's going to happen tomorrow and will win big. but my question this evening is how important is immigration reform going to be to the future of the republican party? there's no better person to tell us that than former rnc claire mr. ed gillespie, now president of the state leadership committee. joins us now. as i live and breathe, thanks for coming on the show. >> good to be with you. >> i know a lot of people disagree. i'm on the rayio, got people calling in and conservatives saying you're wrong.

you're not a conservative. you should not be in favor of immigration. there's nothing in life that's perfect. first, where do you come out on this amendment? >> well, i think the amendment is very strong, as you know, larry. it has five specific proposals that will ensure security for our border, 700 miles of fence and 20,000 new border agents, new sensor technology and new procedures that will ensure that we do make sure that our border is secure before the illegal immigrants are eligible for permanent residency status and then ultimately a path to citizenship under the bill. i think it passes and increases the likelihood that it passes with a big margin in the u.s. senate. that's important. >> we're on the round page. i believe immigration bill is

good for economics. the brainiacs at top end and lower income workers at the low end but the low end sometimes become the middle and the top end, too. i don't think the republican party understands the economic growth potential of immigration, and i think that's hurt the party. >> well, i think a lot of conservative economists do recognize an immigration reform bill would foster economic growth and bring job creation and wring down the kev sit and the low-employees tend to migrate upwards in our economy. my father was an immigrant and came to this country. his father was a janitor when he came to this country and we were the first generation on either side of my family to have the benefit of a college education. i've seen it in my own life and i know that's what this country is built on is upward mobility and giving people the ability to have economic growth. not just those coming into the country as new americans.

>> all of this benefit now. here's the deal. if this thing passes the senate big as everyone expects it to. it goes to the house. john boehner got his work cut out for hi. he wants the hastert rule. won't bring it to the floe floor unless a majority republicans are for it. at least that's his position right now. ed gillespie, i think if it dies in the house it will damage the republican party brand enormously. your thought, please? >> i think it would hurt the republican party and hurt the ability to reclaim majority status. i think it should be done for policy grounds. i have friends who disagree with me on this issue and respect their position and on the politics of it it wasn't that long ago that president george w. bush in his re-election bid was getting 44% and we're down to 27%. that's because there is a fine line between being anti-illegal immigration and being perceived

as anti-immigration and a fine line being perceived at anti-immigration and being perceived anti-hispanic, and i think too many hispanics have cbs that. i think it's a misperception and it's a perception and it brought our number down to 27%. >> my conjecture. legal hispanics, legal hispanics, but they have friend and family who are legal who want to be legal. that spills over into the asian vote where the gop got slaughtered by the asian votes. they vote democrat. who is the republican party? in some sense that's what this vote is all about. who is the gop? how big is the tent? what kind of people are in the republican party? who do they welcome to go to dinner with? you see what i'm saying, so they can have their renaissance in if

they don't, i think if will hurt them for a long time. >> i believe we should be a pro-growth party that believes in freedom and believes in opportunity, and to me that's what this immigration debate and the imbase beal -- i don't think that the good morning-of-eight is a perfect bill. at the end of the day, it's good policy and good politics, we won't win hispanics over night and even in the next election necessarily by having to pass this bill. we shouldn't creed it to president obama to do it by executive fiat as he's started to do. if we can get it done i do believe the hispanic voters would listen to us on other issues where they tend to agree. >> i mean, to me this is -- you got your border security piece.

i didn't think that was going to happen. it has happened. pretty darn good. >> hard to imagine border security happening without the broader immigration bill. if you believe in border security, you should be for the broader bill. you've got your economic growth piece. i've got to get out of here. ed gillespie, best of the best, sir. hope to see you soon. tomorrow night, carly fiorina, she will join me on set for the entire hour. thanks for watching this evening. i'm larry kudlow. we will see you tomorrow night.

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[ticking] >> every day, dr. mintz and many of his patients inject themselves with steroids and hormones that would get ball players banned. any adverse effects from any of this? >> none. >> what have been the benefits that you've felt? >> well, energy. better body composition. my brain function, we tested, is actually quicker than it was five to six years ago. >> and there are plenty of patients eager to follow the trail he's blazing. the ones we talked to in las vegas consider this a lifestyle choice, and they're prepared to roll the dice. >> you could get killed in the interstate tomorrow. >> every physician that's out there using it is seeing results they've never seen before.