it's time. with carl icahn aboard, get ready to hear raising price on apple. there's a bull market somewhere, i promise to the government takes a big step into the free markets. the markets recoil. the justice department says it wants to block the u.s. airways-american airlines merger. both airlines say they are ready to fight back. but the battle won't be easy and it's not going to be cheap either. plus, when is one tweet worth $17 billion? carl icahn is the one who posts it. the billionaire investor used social media, twitter to announce he's taking a big position in apple, the stock soors. so much for the affordable part of the affordable health care act. the administration is postponing another big part of the law. this time it's the cap of out of

pocket costs for consumers. all those stories and more coming up on the "the kudlow report," right now. good evening. this is "the kudlow report." larry is off tonight. airline stocks plunging today. the u.s. government in several states suing to block the merger between u.s. airways and american airlines. phil lebeau joins us now with the details. >> reporter: this is all about whether or not you believe the merger between u.s. airways and american airlines hurts competition around the country. the justice department says that is clearly what's going on if these two airlines merge. a number of routes where there is not enough competition. we'll talk about one specific airport in particular. the lawsuit will also slow down amr's bankruptcy exit. there was supposed to be a vote on thursday that would allow that exit to happen contingent upon the merger between u.s.

airways and amr. that is likely going to be delayed. u.s. airways ceo doug parker says this merger will not be happening in the third quarter. we talked about where we may see some competition concerns from the justice department. reagan airport, d.c., that is the primary area that the justice department pointed out. they say that this merger will hurt competition for people flying in and out of that airport and they point out that 63% of the nonstop flights at reagan would be controlled by u.s. airways and amr if they merge. in a conference call today with reporters and assistant attorney general said we believe there will be hundred and hundreds of millions of dollars in consumer harm if this merger goes through. u.s. airways and amr both issuing statements today saying they plan to fight the doj. they are defending the benefits of the merger, saying it gives people more choices and ultimately more competition around the world. what also bothers a number of people who have supported this

merger, is the fact that this is the first time in the last six years when you look at the history of large airline mergers, the first time that we're seeing the doj step up and say uh-uh, can't get together. when united and continental got together, it was approved. when delta and northwest got together, it was approved. now as american and u.s. airways are close to making their merger happen, it is being blocked by the doj. finally want to take a look at shares of lcc. they were down more than 10% today. the biggest one-day drop since august of 2012. michelle? >> what's the difference between now and then? all those other mergers were approved. is it the change in administration, phil? is it the fact that back then, people assumed that airlines were just big money pits that always lost money, and they've been profitable for the last several years. >> a couple of things, michelle. you've got to look at the continental united one happened under the obama administration. so a number of people are saying when you look at these mergers, you can't allow those two to go through, the one that created

the new delta and the new united, and then stop american and u.s. airways from getting together. but the doj is now saying listen, these four major airlines, american, united, delta, and then southwest, the new southwest, when it combines with airtran ata, will have 80% of the flights. we all knew they were going towards this eventually. so why were the previous two major mergers approved and this one being blocked? that's what bothers a lot of people. you can't start the rules one way and then change them mid-course. >> unless you thought you'd have a point where there was just not enough competition and these guys were way too late. >> that's true. that is the argument as well. >> thank you, phil. >> okay. >> so what impact would this merger really have on the consumer? let's find out straight from the source of a lawsuit that rocked the airline industry today. here with us on the phone is joseph alioto, filed the suit to block the merger.

vaughn kordell, a pilot for major airline joins us as well. mr. alioto, i'm going to start with you. you must be victorious today. >> i'm certainly glad that the department of justice has finally checked in on what has been going on in the airline industry for the last -- just very few years, as was pointed out by phil just recently, the fact of the matter is that the -- that u.s. air first had their first combine with air west in 2005. it was followed in 2008, which was a very large merger, which by the way, my clients challenged. and that was the merger between northwest -- >> i don't want to interrupt you, sir. we just got a history lesson from phil. what would it mean for consumers? >> okay, what it means for consumers is that this is the final real merger, the prices

are and have been substantially raised since those past mergers. i think mistaken about that, although not by the department of justice. there are over 1,660 different routes in which these two major companies are about to compete against. >> are we talking about $10 a ticket? $100 a ticket? is there any way for you to -- >> the last increase by them and jointly was between $4 and $10 for any ticket over $600. plus change fares that went up to $200. they did it all together at the same time. the idea that both of these airlines that just reported the best profits they've ever had in the last quarter could stand alone, neither one of them is in bad shape. neither one of them needs to be bought out. and the idea that they could stand alone, and nonetheless they would rather consolidate.

>> let me get vaughn kordell in here. you've heard what mr. alioto had to say. you wanted this merger to happen. what do you say to that? >> well, we looked at it from the capital market perspective and the benefits of consumer. we have to start with the understanding that these airlines lost about 11% of revenue, $77 billion in today's dollars. so in hindsight, we can say with great certainty that there was 8%, 10% too much in the system. so the airlines were unable to invest in competitive resources. in other words, old airplanes and the lack of new modern technology means higher costs, which requires higher revenue per passenger. fares have not gone up very much, a few percentage points over the last year or two. fares have gone up, but this is an industry that is not viable, cannot invest properly in the competitive resources, and the

benefits of a more efficient and lower cost airline industry and merger between u.s. air and american will accomplish over a billion dollars of synergies, one of thi1/3 of that could be h consumers. we would argument that the justice department lawsuit is deeply flawed, it does not make the economic case. by looking at a small slice of the total merger, they're actually misleading on the relevancy of the fare increases. >> what do you say to the notion that for the last four years they've actually been quite profitable? i mean, you exclude 2008 and 2009, which were horrendous years for every industry in the entire world. but beyond that, airlines now have become profitable. additionally, both of these airlines have said they can make it on their own. they could stand alone. >> these airlines are not earning the cost of capital. we look at a full business cycle, break even on the cost of

capital, and that's an open-ended question. yes, the airlines are more profitable because they've cut pension and health care costs and major labor costs. and remember, the network airlines, the big players, american, delta, united, u.s. air have a large percentage of their passengers and departures with low labor cost regional partners contracted out services. this is a major restructured airline industry, and they have great incentive to keep fares down. >> on that point, though -- but i want to make sure i understand clearly. you're saying that yes, fares could go up some, but they need to because right now the airlines can not cover their costs with capital. and that means what. >> they can invest in new fuel efficient aircraft that burn 25% less fuel, have less maintenance cost and more reliable and better for the customer and

those efficiencies equal lower cost. >> mr. alioto, what do you say to all of that? >> i think that mr. cordle is mistaken in a lot of major ways. there have been substantial reduction in capacity, of course. that, of course, is because of the consolidation. there have been substantial cuts in departures and availability. he's wrong about the prices. they've been increased seven times. >> he didn't say they didn't go up, he just said they haven't gone up that much. there's been a reduction in capacity, because when you have too much supply, then prices fall dramatically. and sometimes you don't have a profitable business anymore. >> joseph needs to check his facts on the fares. >> the only testimony that was given about anybody not being able to make their cost of capital were for any new airlines. in other words, the variants

were enormous. they have over 90%, if you took the top three, they have 96%, if you took the top four. in terms of their available seat miles, total revenues. if you took those, these people control over 85%. if you took their total assets, it's the same thing. there's no competition anymore. >> let me interject. >> let mr. cordle get in here. >> joseph may be great at making the argument, lawyers typically are, but he's no subject matter expert, and that's very clear in what he's saying. he's completely misrepresenting the airline economics. these network airlines have low-coast regionals, so when we look at this control and this methodology, we look at a very wide portfolio of units of capacity that bring cost down.

so the whole premise that this airline industry should not merge is flawed. deeply flawed. and joseph needs to go back and check some facts. >> mr. cordle, thank you so much. mr. alioto, thanks for calling in as well. we really appreciate it. okay. carl icahn tweets, the markets listen. icahn announcing this afternoon he's taking a big position in apple. and then things really started moving. look at this intraday chart. that's the one-day chart. can you guess at what time today carl icahn tweeted that he had taken a position in apple? you only get one guess. later, just take a look at this place. no, it's not a spaceship. this is the new training facility for the university of oregon's football team. i thought that was amateur sports. uh-uh. and don't forget. free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. "the kudlow report" is coming right back.

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billionaire investor carl icahn make headlines once again today. this time reportedly investing more than one billion dollars n apple. icahn wrote the news in a tweet that read we currently have a large position in apple.

we believe the company to be extremely undervalued. spoke to tim cook today. more to come. apple's trading volume surged after that tweet, spiked 300% when it comes to volume. take a look at the stock. closed up almost 5% on the day, adding more than $17 billion to its market cap just this afternoon alone. so is this carl icahn's magic touch at work? joining us now from new york is the former reagan deputy assistant secretary treasury and abigail doolittle. abigail, i'm going to start with you. carl icahn strikes again. was this tim cook's best day ever or worst day ever? >> i think it had to be probably pretty close to his best day in the near term. this is probably a game changer for apple. a real inflection point, a bullish inflection point. i have to imagine that mr. icahn is seeing something in that business model that's going to drive revenues higher and stop the slide of messy quarters. i think you're going to see gross margins restored. i think in the near to medium

term, we're probably looking at a $570 stock. this. co-s from someone who's been pretty bearish on apple for a while. >> but david, icahn's already making demands. that's what he does. he wants a big stock buyback. when tim cook got this call today, was he happy or not? >> i think he was probably happy. remember the previous demands on apple were that they do something financial engineering. and apple responded by borrowing a bunch of money and paying a bigger dividend. so i think icahn's request will probably be in the nature of making the company grow faster, so that's probably a plus. >> does he know anything about how to do that? >> well, he's shown a lot of companies that there is a way to increase earnings and increase revenue. so i think that part of it is pretty much a given. and you saw the results in the market today. >> what do you think he's going to do first thing? >> that's hard for me to say. i'm really not an expert on apple. but i think he'll probably go in there and really try to improve the gross margins and i think

he'll probably try to boost revenue growth. it's slid over the last couple of years from 60% down to less than 10%. i think he wants to probably get that back into the teens. >> this isn't anything new, right? but you bring somebody to the table who's got a lot of power and a lot of money and a lot of power of persuasion, and loves, loves to use the media and his mouth to make change. >> i think that's a great point. because this has really been a psychology stock for so many years. people have loved it. now you have this big billionaire behind it. i think you could really see that tide turn in terms of people are going to get onboard and become apple lovers again. i think that's a great point on your part. when you have that positive momentum, it can help not just the stock, but i think that can sometimes -- especially around an iconic type of iphone, maybe help boost sales again. >> meanwhile, apple helped stocks raise rebounds. the ten-year treasury yield was also up for the second day in a row. are interest rates still too low?

the markets moved higher. the ten-year yield is 7.22. it wasn't that long ago we were talking about 1.5%. what does it mean for companies' abilities to fund themselves? >> i think it ends up being good for the economy because it's reflecting growth. i think what happened in may and june is what we should call a reset in the bond yields. they had just gotten too low in the spring. now bond yields will go up gradually and i think stair step fashion if the economy accelerates. the signal today from retail sales was there's some acceleration going on in the bond market price. that's all well and good. yields are still low. that's okay. >> i have to take the other side here, michelle. when i look at rates at this point, i don't think they're too low at all in the context of this weak global environment. when we think about the normal cycle, as many people know, you start off with the stock market cycle. it leads to the economic cycle, the business cycle. and then it leads into the

interest rate of the rising rate. the business cycle, i don't know. 2% gdp, you tell me. it's almost like trying to put out a fire that never even sparked. if we look at the housing related stocks, we've seen real weakness. 15% declines since mid may. investors don't think the bright spot of this economy can handle that. look over into the eurozone. >> you're the economist, david, what do you say to that? >> i think there are other bright spots. i agree with what abigail was saying, but if you look into what was happening in the household survey, small businesses seem to be beginning to hire workers. we've gotless risk of a tax increase now than we've had in many years. and so that's a plus. this prospect that the fed will taper -- remember what the fed's been doing. they borrow money from the private sector. and they put it into really dead-end government bonds. one of the high-priced assets in the world. so if they will stop doing that, that gives a bit of a green light. light at the end of the tunnel

for the rest of the economy. so i'm hoping they'll actually get to a taper maybe in september and that will be a positive sign for the rest of the economy. >> david does not fear the taper like so many do. let's move on to a positive sign in the economy. the budget deficit narrowing. the federal government has a $607 billion deficit so far this fiscal year. this is positive news, folks. that's because it's down from $947 billion at this time last year. isn't this a sign that the spending cuts and the sequester are helping the economy, david? >> i think it is. when the government borrows money, the private sector looks at it and says wait, we're going to have to pay it back. when the government spends money, that's going to come out of our pocket in the future. so they hold back on hiring investment. and so one part of the good case over the next year is the government's taking less future money from the economy and that's just plain good. >> abigail? >> maybe so. i think, though, in the broader

context of what we're dealing with right now, potentially interest rates rising -- and i don't think they're going to stair step. i think they could spike higher. crude above $100. i also think something investors aren't really paying a lot of attention to, the unwind of the yen trade. those are big risks. it could be a perfect storm. be that as it may, positive news to some degree. i think that there are broader issues to be dealing with that investors are weighing right now. >> i agree with those points. so oil is too high for equities to really keep motoring along. and the japan situation is not coming together. and so we've got negatives there. so i'm thinking the glass is half full. it's not three quarters full. >> but we do have a smaller deficit. for that, we can all be pleased. >> that's pleasing. >> david, good to see you tonight. thank you so much. abigail, you, too. you're staying right here. because now we're going to talk about that other activist investor.

what is he thinking? we can't get a hold of ackman's psychiatrist, so we're going to try to analyze him right here after the break. in a world that's changing faster than ever, we believe outshining the competition tomorrow requires challenging your business inside and out today. at cognizant, we help forward-looking companies run better and run different - to give your customers every reason to keep looking for you. so if you're ready to see opportunities and see them through, we say: let's get to work. because the future belongs to those who challenge the present.

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grrrrreat outdoors, and a great deal. ahhh let's leave the deals to hotels.com. perfect! yep, and no angry bears. up to 30% off. only at hotels.com. bill ackman is gone from the jcpenney board. the company's largest investor resigned tuesday after an ugly war of words with his other board members. he's also had a very public fight with carl icahn. so what kind of guy does business like this?

here now is a real estate reporter. and the author of a 2011 profile on bill ackman. still with me is abigail doolittle. >> i didn't. >> i like it, i like it. >> this is toned down, actually. >> you did a profile of bill ackman. one thing that struck me success when he was playing tennis with his daughter. i thought it was very insightful into how competitive he is. please retell the audience that story. >> right. so when i was reporting on the profile, bill took me out to randall's island here in the city where he was -- had a two-hour tennis match with two of his traders. meanwhile, his daughter, she was taking lessons. and at the very end, well first off, bill was complaining about

being a little rusty. he had been on vacation, so don't hold any of the plays against him even though he certainly seemed to dominate the match. >> against his traders. >> he's often talked about helping warm up andre agassi. so his daughter comes over. she's across the court from him. every ball goes whizzing right at her. probably because she was the easiest mark on the court. but also i'd like to think because he was trying to toughen her up. >> how old is she? >> i think she was 13 at the time. >> 13 at the time and he's just whipping the balls right at her. >> right. >> uh-huh. >> deeply competitive. >> but for her own good. just like jcpenney. just like herbalife. they need to listen to bill and all will work out. >> he's resigning from the jcpenney board after this very acrimonious fight. i can't imagine any of this surprises you. >> maybe that it didn't drag out longer. he's certainly been pretty obstinate in the past with some of these bets. i think target dragged on for quite a few years longer.

>> mbia was a seven-year fight. >> right, exactly. a lot of these things pay off. canadian pacific is doing well after he shook things up there. i think one of the things -- you can look at it two ways. he's either very patient or very stubborn. but from a lot of the people i talk to, he always thinks he's right and it's his job to convince the rest of the world that that's the kascase. when we went out for breakfast after the tennis match, he paid with the target credit card he kept in his pocket two years after. >> abigail, as an investor, when you see what ackman does sometimes quite successfully and sometimes really, really poorly. >> speaking to jcpenney here, i think this boardroom drama is attention-grbi i attention-grabbing and distracting. i think investors want to focus less on ackman and whether or not they can bring a turnaround about. relative to the upcoming quarter, they'll be looking at the cash burn. 1.1 billion. so long as it's not comprised of

operating losses and comprised more evenly of capital spending to suggest that they are building out properly. i think it's going to be a positive. but i think this whole boardroom drama is very little to do here. >> what struck me about this boardroom drama is that he started this who process. it was ackman who said got to bring in ron johnson from apple. it was time, it was inspired. the board went along. it was a disaster. and here he is again saying well now we need a different ceo. it's like he's a glutton for punishment or he can't admit that he's the reason it's such a disaster the last go around and he's stepping in it again. >> yeah, i certainly think that bill's probably the last person who would ever tell you that it was his mistake. he famously throws mixers at his apartment on central park west where he tries to set people up, so maybe that's what he figured jcpenney needed. >> and he's never invited me? all right. >> not after tonight.

>> no, definitely not. but you in that suit, you should go. definitely. looks super cute. matt, thanks so much. abigail doolittle, good to have you on the set as well. now it's just the latest snag for obama care and another crucial part of the new health care law is being delayed. this time, it's the part that was supposed to make the affordable care act actually affordable. we have that story next. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios

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welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm michelle caruso cabrera in for larry kudlow. in this half-hour, call it the government gone wild. wherever you look these days, seems like uncle sam is getting very involved in the free markets. the headline today, the effort to break up the u.s. airlines-american airlines merger. also, look at this new facility for the university of oregon football team. are we sure we still want to call college football an amateur sport? we're going to take you inside the palace that bill knight built. that's a little later this hour. president obama took questions about the failing implementation of the affordable care act last week in his press conference. did he really answer any questions? take a listen and decide. >> i want to ask you about two important dates that are coming up. october 1st, you've got to implement your health care law. you recently decided on your own to delay a key part of that. if you pick and choose what

parts of the law to implement, couldn't your successor down the road pick and choose whether they'll implement your law and keep it in place? >> we're not in a normal atmosphere when it comes to quote unquote obama care. we did have the executive authority to do so. and we did so. but this doesn't go to the core of implementation. >> now "the new york times" reports the administration has delayed yet another part of obama care. the limit on out of pocket cost for patients. is this just more evidence that the entire health law should be delayed or even repealed? here now is former obama deputy white house press secretary bill burton, now vice president and managing director of global strategy group. and also hatley heath. this is the third part of obama care that's getting delayed or not implemented at all, hadleigh. it grows increasingly important that it's just incredibly difficult if not impossible to implement. >> the news with obama care is

this. a new day, a new delay. this is an admission, or should be to the american people, that this law is unworkable. this is on the heels of the white house providing a special kind of waiver for congress and their staff. if it's not good enough for them, it's certainly not good enough for us and this means we need to delay the entire law or repeal it. >> bill, what do you think? a lot of this has to do with basically software. when you have to bring together all of these companies nationally, trying to figure out who has met their out of pocket costs. it's become incredibly difficult. small companies have trouble with their i.t. and their software. imagine the national government trying to do this. >> well, michelle, as you point out, this is a big deal. when you're implementing a big law, sometimes there are things that are going to be particularly complicated. when i was at the white house and the health care was being put together, folks knew that this was going to be a very complicated thing. what the president was addressing in that press conference where he talked about the one delay, you would think that the business community would be happy that he is

listening to the business community and heard that some of the complications they were having. so to make what is a big law more manageable, did delay one piece of it. the report in "the new york times" today was a little misleading in the sense that they're talking about something that had been posted since february, that people knew was coming. and secondly, a lot of these consumer protections that are going to bring costs down for folks are already in place or will be implemented next year, like not being able to be denied for preexisting condition. things like capping out of pocket costs. banning a lifetime caps on health insurance. so consumers are already experiencing a lot of the benefits. >> i thought the cap on out of pocket costs is what's being delayed at this point. that's not going into effect. >> no, that's one piece of it. and yes, the piece of it will take time to implement. and there are complications with the software, as you say, and listening to business -- >> you down play there are

complications with the software, as you say. you say that almost in a banal way. this is a massive program that is going to be nearly impossible. did you install microsoft, the most recent version of windows? i mean, it is just an enormous issue dealing with -- >> you're right, michelle. hold on, one second, hadley, let me respond to that. this isn't just about the software in the federal government. these are the individual businesses and providers who have to change up their systems as well. >> it's emblematic of just how difficult this is going to be, if not impossible. hadley? >> i totally agree with you, michelle. this software is not something if we have some kind of virus we lose files on our commuters. this has to deal with personal health care data, or when the government is using it in these state-based exchanges.

we have to have a system in place to verify data on people's incomes, health insurance status. realtime data. and we're simply not ready. the programs are not ready. if anything, i would hope that republicans and democrats could agree that this law needs to be delayed, that we need to take our time with implementation, because no one wants to be a part of that train wreck, republicans or democrats. >> the president is not asking congress to do that. he's just doing it himself. what did you think of his response to the question about selective implementation? >> well, i think that bill is right that the obama white house is listening to business, but they're not listening to individuals. they're not listening to the many numbers of americans who now say that they disapprove of obama care, that they don't want any part of it. so if the white house is willing to listen to business, they ought to listen -- >> but you approve of his picking and choosing parts of the law? >> absolutely not. in this country, congress is supposed to write the law. if you want a law on the significant provision of the law, like the individual mandate as will house has passed legislation to do, then you need

to do that through congress. we have a legislative process to do these thing things. >> the republican house has made clear that they have no intention of doing any such thing any time soon. let me just make one point about what hadley said about listening to individuals. >> hold on, finish your thought about why is it okay for the president to selectively pick and choose what part of this bill, what part of this law will be enforced or won't be? >> well, what the president is doing is implementing what is a very complex change to the way that our nation treats health care in order to curb the rising cost of health insurance. >> so that justifies circumventing law? >> i would hope we would expect of our leaders that they take prudent steps to balance the concerns of business and the need to aggressively move forward. the president just charged ahead and didn't listen to anyone in how he was implementing this law. probably wouldn't make a lot of sense. >> that's what he's doing. >> as the rubber hits the road,

what we have to do is balance out those needs and make sure that health care can be as effective as humanly possible and we can get cost down as quick as we can. but the republican talking point on this, which is just let's stop obama care, let's defend obama care. that is not an answer. that's a political talking point. what the american people need is an actual plan. >> there are many different strategies to push back against obama care, and that's what people who support a free market are doing because we care about the quality of health care in our country. because we care about the choices available to americans and their families. this is not necessarily a political footfall. >> lady and gentleman, thank you so much for joining us tonight. they're coming back. they're not moving. they're going to be back with us in just a minute. now the government is getting involved in everything from big coin to airline mergers. what's it going to take for washington to stand down just once, please? that's next. [ marco ] i'm a student at devry university.

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tonight, we have several examples of the government involving itself in almost everything. first the proponents of bitcoin pride themselves on operating

without any central authority, but the senate has something to say about that. they have reached out to several agencies about the virtual currency. they want a virtual currency policy. we continue now with former obama deputy white house secretary bill burton and independent womens senior foreign policy analyst hadley heath. we had bart charlton. he wants to regulate anything with a pulse. and even he said he wasn't that interested in regulating bitcoin, and yet the senate wants something done here. what's going on here? >> a couple things. first, if you look at the folks in the senate looking to ask more questions, they include tom carper, a democrat, and tom coburn, not just a republican, someone who a lot of people think is into government overreach. bitcoin is at the stage where it could be anything from the next huge new thing, to just the same old thing that it's been. small confined currency.

when people get together and decide to put together a currency, it seems like something that the government ought to at least take a look at, especially if it's a platform or a vehicle by which people can launder money and move around funds in ways that the government probably ought to keep an eye on. >> hadley? >> i understand that our congressmen, just like other americans, probably want to understand a new market and a new innovation, and i've got no problem with them trying to understand what's happening here. but i also understand that the federal government impulse is to regulate everything with a pulse. and regulation should focus on preventing criminal activity, preventing fraud, protecting consumers. but going beyond that to micromanaging every aspect of a business is not helpful for us. >> moving on. the ink is barely dry on north carolina's new voter i.d. law. two lawsuits, though, have already been filed against the tar heel state. the justice department already fighting a similar law in texas. will eric holder challenge north carolina as well? what do you think of this law?

>> i am a proud north carolinian. i understand the hand-ups people have with these laws. i understand voter i.d. laws are controversial. but what's happening in north carolina is mainly bringing these election laws at the state level in line with where the majority -- >> you have to have a photo i.d. to vote. >> that's right. they'll become the 34th state to have that requirement. i understand the criticisms with that kind of policy at the state level, i'm also -- if you feel disenfranchised having to bring your driver's license to a polling place, think of how disenfranchised are when others cast a ballot five or six times. i recognize that voter fraud -- >> why are you laughing, bill? >> because it's hilarious. >> there are no cases of voter fraud that have been stopped as a result of these laws. >> how do you know? what are you talking about, how do you know? >> when people have drilled down and investigated. look it up on the internet.

>> so you shouldn't need photo i.d.? >> let me just finish this point. these laws try to fix a problem that does not exist. the reason that they are trying to put them in place is not to stop people from voting five or six times, which there are no instances of people finding folks doing. it's instead a systematic effort to stop certain groups of people from voting. >> like who? >> like african-americans. like hispanics. >> they don't have a photo i.d.? >> i'm saying when you look at who this affects -- >> but why would minorities be afraid to vote because they have to bring an i.d.? >> it's not about being afraid to vote. >> then what is it? tell me why. >> i encourage your viewers to go to the brennan center website because they have very clear statistics that show when you put these laws in place, it disproportionately affects people who have lower instances of having photo i.d.s or driver's license. >> why? >> because they have lower instances of having the actual

identification to go and vote. >> this is why i'm so frustrated with the politics of voter i.d. republicans on one hand who see volter i.d. as the only solution. i don't really like that solution. but i don't hear any suggestions from people on the left because they deny that voter fraud is a problem. we have 1.8 million dead voters registered. 2.8 million voters actively registered in more than one state. how can you deny that this is a problem? we have to safeguard our most sacred right to vote. >> if somebody dies and happens to be on the voter rolls, that doesn't mean that voter fraud is occurring. it just means they died so they don't show up and vote. next topic, the justice department will not prosecute the london whale -- bruno ixel is cooperating. that's hardly jp morgan's only problem. the bank faces two other doj investigations. is the government overreaching when it comes to jp morgan or

just doing its job? hadley? >> this is another case where like any kind of crisis, there's that temptation to overcorrect. we did have a huge financial crisis. the london whale, something nobody wants to see. any kind of crisis, these regulators ability like teenage drivers and overcorrect into head-on traffic. we shouldn't be looking at clamping down on our financial markets just because we're fearful of another crisis. we do need regulation. but again, we need it to prevent criminal activity. >> i see something even more sinister here. jamie dimon was very up front about his criticisms of new laws, about the government overreach. he was one of the few ceos to stand up and say enough is enough. and i see this as punishment by regulators. >> no. i think if that was the standard by which the government was deciding who ought to be investigated and who ought to be looked at -- >> then the irs wouldn't be doing what they were doing either, right? >> you would see a lot more people on wall street being investigated for different

things. what happened in the financial crisis brought our economy to its knees. yes, some of this stuff ought to be investigated. yes, we've got to do a deep dive into making sure that consumers are protected and that people on main street are as protected as the folks on wall street. jp morgan can just write it off and not think about it and jamie dimon still gets to head up the company and the board. but for the consumers still losing money, it's a big deal to them. >> consumers could not -- let's be clear, consumers did not lose any money in that transaction. the bank lost money. the shareholder had, as a result, fewer profits. but no consumers lost any money as a result of that transaction. finally, bp is fighting the epa. the oil giant is suspended from getting new federal contracts because of the gulf oil spill. but it's suing to get that suspension lifted, saying the epa is abusing its power. hadley, what do you say to this? have they already paid their dues with the money and the fines and everything else? >> this is exactly the same as the jp morgan story.

we had a crisis, we had a disaster, an oil spill, and now we're overcorrecting. >> bill? >> i don't think you can say you're overcorrecting for what was a generational type environmental disaster that came up because of what bp did. in the cleanup, they were not great partners in how we went about making sure that all of the damage was mitigated in the best possible way. so look, i think that the epa makes decisions based on science, based on facts. and i don't think that they're letting the correction get in the way of what is the best possible policy for the american people in our interest. >> bill, great to have you, thank you so much. hadley, you, too. bill burton and hadley heath joining us for a lightning round on government gone wild. now, it's nice when your college football team's biggest fan is the founder of nike. how nice? look at the palace that bill knight built for the university of oregon. jane wells is about to take you inside this $68 million palace

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the university of oregon not a traditional college football powerhouse like ohio state or usc, but having a brand-new state of the art facility is helping oregon compete. jane wells is in eugene, oregon, with a look inside this fancy new facility. >> reporter: some are calling this black behemoth behind me the deck star, but if money can buy championships, then the

university of oregon has no excuse. there is a lot of pressure to deliver. no detail too small. no material too out of reach for the football performance center paid for by alum and nike co-founder phil knight and his wife penny at an estimated cost of $68 million and gifted to the university. whether it's the players lounge with italian leather and hand-made rugs from nepal, complete with custom foosball tables of oregon ducks facing pac-12 rivals. or the over-the-top locker room with ventilation to remove odors, lockers where your helmet and shoulder pads pop down. the coach's hot tub, a war room with the 32-foot-long table and a 500-pound rug, writable black walls, or the auditorium with 170 leather seats made of ferrari leather, and each seat able to hold 500 pounds. >> i love the way the design for the team has captured the past but also this innovative twist to put us ahead. >> do you really want to put sweaty young man on italian

furniture? i don't know. >> they treat it very well. they're very appreciative and they know thousand take care of it. >> reporter: is it enough to help the ducks to go all the way? the school is dealing with some ncaa penalties for recruiting violations, but if recruiting in the big money game of college football is an arms race, this could be a nuclear weapon. >> sweaty men on italian leather. only jane wells. before we go tonight, we want to show you a clip of the new episode of "the prophet," airs in about two hours. this week, marcus tries to turn around a popcorn company, but he has issues with the owner. >> don't make me cry. you're making me look like a liar and i'm not. >> you lied to me. >> when did i lie to you? did you say to me today, are you trying to buy pop one? >> how was i supposed to know? you did it behind my back. how am i supposed to trust you? i was going to put hundreds of thousands of dollars into this and you're asking me to trust you. >> marcus -- >> that's where i don't know if you have the integrity.

>> i absolutely do. >> you did not display it. integrity is the only thing in business. so you can be very wealthy. you can be very smart. if you don't have your word, you don't have integrity, none of the other stuff is worth a damn thing. right now, i do not want to do business with you because i don't think i can trust you. >> "the profit," 10:00 p.m. eastern and pacific tonight, cnbc prime. that's it for tonight's show. thanks so much for watching. so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

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>> narrator: in this episode of "american greed"... two brothers have it all. >> country clubs, fast cars. both boys were good-looking. >> narrator: but on opposite ends of the world, they each meet the same fate -- murder. >> a horrible end to what were charmed lives. >> narrator: is there a tragic flaw that brings this family down? >> what this is about is greed. >> narrator: in early 2001,