this is the pursuit of perfection. congratulations, pete, you won the debate according to the people who have spoken. give us a final trade. >> facebook. >> weiss? >> macy. >> joe? >> buy more netflix. >> bye-bye, "power "can the starts night. "halftime" is over. the second half of your trading day begins now. welcome, folks, i've been waiting all morning for you right here. big investors. now more vocal than ever about their moves? is it a good thing though for the rest of us or is tweeting for dollars manipulating the market? we'll discuss that. you got an apology. the ceo of aol days after the very public firing of an executive says i am sorry. should he be? have we gone a little mushy in the conference room? and here we're foolg following

the crash of a ups cargo plane in alabama. new information coming out throughout the day. the very latest, plus fire sweeping through parts of iota including around several big-name ski areas. they are being threatened right now. we'll tell you about that, but, first, to sue at the new york stock exchange. >> good to see you, ty. we'll start with the markets right now. a down day right here on the floor of the nyse. the dow jones industrial average is off 93 points, two-thirds of a percent. the s % p is off a third of a percent or about 6.33 point. the nasdaq is down 7.33 points and the russell 2000 is off two points on the trading session. the ten-year yield is right now up above the 2.70% range. we're now at 1.71%. the gold market, after a little bit of a selloff yesterday bouncing back, up number 13 bucks on the day and brent crude is up 17 cents. apple above 500 bucks in today's trading session. 502 can't 45 to be exact.

more on that in just a second. first though to bob pins on the floor for this down day of stocks. >> we have a depressingly similar trading pattern. >> very much stuck. >> more days than not dow just moves right down and bottoms somewhere in the late morning, sometimes around europe and then stabilized in the middle of the day and sometimes comes back and sometimes meanders. this has happened more days than not in the last two weeks so a lot of people think this is because they are selling the u.s. to buy europe. now, there is some indication to put up the european etf and you can see here there's clearly been money going into that in the last several weeks. money inflows in etf funds associated with europe and here's one of them, the vgk and there may be something behind all of that. let me put up some sectors. tough day for housing. last week fannie mae and freddie mac concerns, more concerns here, came out with earnings below expectations and new orders was a real problem for taylor morrison.

these stocks out of favor, the itv, a new low for the year 2013. finally, sue, be careful about momentum stocks. cree was a darling. everybody loved cree, and when you have a situation where you have four great quarters and all of a sudden you get inline results and slightly lower guidance this is what happens. >> down 20%. >> look at that stock straight up. >> of course, they make l.e.d. chips, everybody loves them but that's the problem with momentum stocks. >> thanks very much, bob pisani. let's speak more about this with our guests. good to see you guys. ladies first, ben, okay, how does the market look to you technically at this point? >> the market looks as though it's lyse losing steam. this has been the case for probably a few weeks here. we had a por pollic move out of july. now we need to see something positive that will carry it higher. europe actually had a positive economic report. .3% growth in gdp.

however, that sort of growth does not a recovery-makers and so i think that investors need to be careful before throwing u.s. equity money into european equity money at this time. >> what about our market here? it's august and the volume light and we've been stuck in this. it's a yawner out there? >> a yawner without a doubt. no trading volume whatsoever so trying to read the tea leaves is difficult because there aren't any tea leaves. money slowly finds its way into the market. the trading pattern that bob alluded to earlier, very common. seeing the draw drown early in the day and hopefully a u-shaped pattern but it's a much-needed correction after the parapublic move last month, of course. >> it's hard to remember that when you have a downside. >> everybody trader in the world has been looking for the correction that never came so it appears we're getting in these very small steps on the way down and the moves, any plus side move has been minimal, and i think that's going to be thematic until september.

>> let me bring in sound in from jim cramer because bob mentioned europe a little earlier and the eurozone did exit its year and a half long recession, according to some. cnbc's jim cramer has been getting bullish on listen. take a listen to what he said last night. >> the strongest markets in the world of late have been spain, greece, italy, france, netherlands, ireland, portugal. buying an outsized position in the etf that invests in the largest european equities. ubs and barclays, to me they are off to the races. >> all righty. abigail, you said earlier that one report does not a recovery make? >> correct, and i would be a bit cautious here. investors want to see follow through and when i look at daxx it looks as overheated as the u.s. equity markets. ben is talking about this correction everybody is expecting the technical side. weakness in the transports and industrials showing it may come. one bright spot for both europe

and my mind, the energy sector. crude is above $100 per barrel, and i think that it's actually going to climb higher. if this is a fact it could flow right to the bottom line of the major oil companies so i really like totale, royal dutch shell and will even throw in bp there. i think you can see those stocks higher within two or three months. >> do you feel better given what people have been talking about the last two or three weeks? >> if our an investor looking long term you need those indications where there may be a bottom in place. the financial stocks obviously very speculative, but if you did that in the united states of america four or five years ago, a very healthy portfolio to take a risk on the european banks that jim cramer just alluded to. albert fried, money continuing in the more traditional stocks you see out of a recovery. like the tech names and s.a.p. names, and you're seeing the building blocks of whether it's in the tech, the software or semis or the construction like

the crh and the cement companies. you're seeing building blocks suggesting the infrastructure is in place. cap x spending increasing from the european base companies. we're seeing that benefiting from the commitment from the chinese suggesting they want to see cap x going into i.t., so it's all -- it's all hand in glove sort of investment. >> good ideas for our viewers. thank you both so much. really appreciate it. >> seema mody is taking a deeper dive on how that's impacting u.s. companies that had exposure to europe. what are you fink out? >> europe's rising groep growth seems to be helping companies with a significant amount of exposure to ufrpt these companies make a high percentage of sales in europe. on average so far they have seen second-quarter revenues grow by 1.9% and earnings growth of 4.8% year over year. that data according to thompson reuters. this is still lower than the average growth rate of the s&p 500. edward yardini says this data is encouraging. he says better than expected

economic data, including today's read on gdp, is improving sentiment towards the eurozone. he points out that valuation multiples of european stocks have been depressed which may present a good buying opportunity. looking forward, the rest of the year may also be strong, b of a riding today that 80% of european fund managers anticipate the region's strengthening ahead, twice the level reported last month so this comeback in europe clearly an' merging trend to watch. >> thanks very much, seema mody on the europe adrs. we're tracking a developing story in alabama. a ups cargo plane crashed earlier this morning. you may have heard about this. this is video taken shortly after the crash not far from the birmingham airport. the bite and co-pilot were the only ones on board, and they were both killed. phil lebeau covers the airline industry and aviation more broadly and is live with us in chicago.

what do we know? >> reporter: investigators in ntsb are now on the scene just outside of the birmingham, alabama airport. it's a grassy area not far from the airport. this is what they are seeing. they are in the process of retrieving the black box, the flight data recorder. they will review the cargo list. as you mentioned the pilot and co-pilot were killed in the crash. the plane involved is an airbus a-300, ten years old, has 11,000 flight hours, according to airbus. ups says this flight was making an approach to the landing as it came in. that's when the crash happened. >> we saw smoke and debris, like it was shredded across the field, so it was quite scary. >> i heard this fluttering over the house, but i heard the loud boom. i guess that's when the plane crashed or hit the ground, but it was -- it was terrifying. >> reporter: for ups they have 235 planes that they own and another 293 that they charter.

they make more than 1,900 daily flights, and according to the aviation safety data network this is the sixth accident for ups going back to 1985. tyler and sue, it's very early in the investigation. no indication as to what causes this crash but they will focus on two things, was there something mechanical that went or, b, come other factor in terms of cargo on board that might have led to this crash? we're tracking it as we get back down to the scene. >> thank you very much. another developing story we're watching very closely. deadly clashes in egypt. dozens have been killed and hundreds injured as the military clash with pro-morsi supporters. yousef gamal el din is live from cairo with the very latest. good evening. >> reporter: good evening, sue. it's been a very bleed day in downtown cairo and the back gound, quiet in most parts of

the city. remember, security forces taking the decision to make up protest states or supporters of ousted president emmirsy have been kept out for six weeks. the two squares have now been cleared after 12 hours of an operation that saw the exchange of gunfire, tear gas, rocks and bottles and much more. now, some shocking tallies are emerging. we have two account of how many people have die. on the one hand you have the ministry of health account which says 149 people have died in today's violence across the country, and over 700 injured, and then you are looking at a different account from the muslim brotherhood and supporters of the ousted president. they claim that the tally has far exceeded 600 with many thousands injured, but keep in mind that there is a state of emergency. there is a curfew. the shipping traffic in the suez has not been affected. banks will remain closed tomorrow and so will the stock exchange as a precaution.

we're monitoring the situation. for now it's back to you, tyler. >> thank you very much for that report from cairo. the great american stock activist has been louder than usual. last night carl icahn on apple and lyon cooperman adding to his position. apple really taking off as i hope you say. earlier this year the battle over herbal life. bill ackman on the short side and the longs seemingly to up this one. you don't want to be short on a stock going up 100%, do you? jc penney has also been targeted by ackman and target was for what it's worth. that stock, penny, not doing particularly well in the past year. he's long on that one. now, dan loeb went offer sony. shares up 71% in a year and down 9% over the past month so the question for the jury here, folks, is should the average investor follow the big guys like carl icahn or ackman or loeb and others, and also are

there concerns when an activist investors like icahn goes on twitter to rereal their position. welcome to you both. bethany, what do you say here? is it fair play for a big investor whether it's ackman or icahn or somebody else to go and tweet that he's just opened a big position in a company? >> well, look, it is turning the stock market into the wild west by the prevalence of people being out there and sort of talking their bok and touting their positions but where i come out, if you follow him blindl blindly, --

>> you hope that mr. icahn tells us when he sells? >> absolutely. just the whole try of following what a company's announcements, speed desk that put up information seconds or so before the information could be traded on, very lucrative to traders if they have the slightest edge. for the time being it's troubling because anyone who heard that tweet or saw that tweet, even milliseconds before anyone else, had a major edge. >> bethany, let's talk about the performance of some of these activist investors. it's not always great. they don't hit home runs every time out. even mr. icahn took a real beating in blockbuster some years ago. >> right. that's what i mean by don't follow blindly because, yes, these guys are smart and, yes, they work hard and have more access to information than you can ever have but that doesn't

mean you are always right. there's any number of examples where the big guys haven't gotten it right. in addition, they may have a deal you can't get. look at warren buffett's investments in bank of america and goldman sachs. he cut deals that the average investor can't ripley kate so just because he buys doesn't mean you should. >> let's get back to that other sort of issue here whether the use of twitter or social media is fair way, and i'm not saying that that's when is going on all, at all, so let me be clear of it. but the use of social media is sort of a very viable conspiracy theory, isn't it? >> as long as the nvgs -- if the information is distributed equally to all investors that just makes the market more first. that should not be freed.

>> people don't understand when the chairman may be tweeting or non-public, yes, yes, regarding links that move the market such as the one icahn made or a mergy announcement. reall know when the earnings announ announcements come out because they are posted on the website. this is an everyone tirely new channel for distributing information, and, therefore, it may give traders information we tonight have and push out spreads and make it more expensive for mutual fund that we're invested in to buy their stocks after the -- the big traders get in and the tweeters benefit. >> nice to see you again. >> you too. >> thank you very much. >> to josh lipton now for a market fresh. it's a down day for the markets. movers to highlight gug two big names in the yesterday. the make of had quarterly

profits of 6 and some analysts think third-quarter results mark the peak and expect farmers to cut capital spending. another one investors are selling, macy's posted quarterly sales in profit that minutes missed what retailers wanted to see. on the other hand,boro cade well in the green. networking technology company posted third-quarter results that bested estimates and told us demand for its storage products picking up. finally a nice debut for envision health care holdings, provider of ambulance services, debuted on the nyse. the ipo twiced at 23 per share. that stock up more than 10% right now. sue, back to you. >> thank you very much. the show says i'm sorry after following an executive in public. see what two experts have to say

about that. >> and wildfires pushing outside two very popular ski resorts. we'll take you there next on "power lunch." clients are always learning more to make their money do more. (ann) to help me plan my next move, i take scottrade's free, in-branch seminars... plus, their live webinars. i use daily market commentary to improve my strategy. and my local scottrade office guides my learning every step of the way. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) scottrade... ranked "highest in customer loyalty for brokerage and investment companies."

welcome back to "power lunch." i'm josh lipton. tesla down some 4% right now and down 12% since hitting its record high of 158.88 on august 8th. talk to some analysts saying nothing is really changed regarding the company's ability of estimates to meet in the near term so maybe basic profit taking. that stock, of course, has been

a monster, up some 100% this year and again down today though on light volume. tyler, back to you. >> josh, thank you very much. parts of utah under attack by wildfires. several communities are being threatened by the fast moving flames. already several buildings have been destroyed and hundreds of acres scorched out there. this fire is just east of salt lake city and is quite near to several of utah's very popular ski resorts. sue? >> those are terrible pictures, ty. thank you very much, it's the story of the shory ceo. frayed's aol's tim armstrong calling doing a won fence call to take a picture. >> be a mel, put that camera down right now. >> it he make the right move by saying sorry or not? >> joining us is marcus lemonis

and welcome, gentlemen, nice to have you here. marcus, i'm going to start with you. you're a tough guy. you've run a big company. bill's run a big company. did dr. armstrong want to do the right thing by saying he's sorry? >> ineernd why that's interested. >> in other words, why the employee felt entiretled to do that? >> when the leader of the business kind of reaction the way he does, especially in other people, sets a bad example, and i don't know that he's sorry he's going to do it. >> what do you think? >> we all make mistakes and don't want to do it on an open mike in front of 10,000 people, and i think he gets that, appreciate to the individual involved and put out an open letter lake he did. back in our medtronic days,

within the facing reality and were just making the deck chairs around the "titanic." later my boss was called, in tears. we all make mistakes and today in this 24/7 media world will activist investors ready to jump in at a moment's notice you have to admit your vulnerabilities and mistakes and then move on. we all do make them and we're under close scrutiny and none of us are perfect. >> i think your point is the culture of the company starts in the corner office. >> if the tape hadn't gone out, would the apology still have gone out? >> that's an interesting question, i don't know. perhaps it would have not. >> i thinky should apology. that made it more difficult and i agree the culture starts.

it's very difficult to bring a company back, just hike marisa mayer, and she's made mistakes, too. he's under a lot of pressure and naturally to get sens when you have to get difficult things. i've certainly felt those kinds of pressures. i'd like to sigh i'm perfect but i haven't been. >> if ahead, marcus. >> i think my bigger issue is when you're leaving the company out of the dark times, your behavior will really member and if you have 2,000, 1,000 employees to rely on your leadership to set the tone and base, those kinds of mistakes may be acceptable by the average consumer. i can tell you around the water cooler people feel more for their positions. >> my friend when he was ceo of amgen said you never get quite back to where you were, but i don't think you want to be larry

ellison and dig in your heels and say that's the way it is, folks, get on with it. >> very quickly. do you think that ceos in general have become too soft because of the influence of social media and the like? >> i think ceos in general sometimes aren't soft enough. having compassion for your people and having respect for your people will earn their respect and in return when you want them to do something they will do it because they believe in you not because you're intimidating them to do it. >> marcus, we agree on that one. >> great to see you, bill. thanks for joining us today. and a reminder that "the profit" airs 10:00 p.m. eastern and pacific on tuesdays. ty, up to you. >> hedge fund titan leon cooperman getting in and out of big tech stocks. plus, the power pitch. >> coming up, power pitch give us their 60-second church.

we give you insight into the fast-paced world of venture capital. >> how are you going to convince people to spend money if you're giving it away for me? >> this is a really crowded space. >> do they have what it takes? >> are you in or are you out of creative live? >> stay tuned to find out. before their gift helped preserve the point... before a credit solution was used to expand their business... before trusts were created for their grandkids' educations... they chose a partner

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>> i'm brian sullivan and welcome to the power pitch where founders get 60 seconds to make their pitch and our panel of experts dig into the business model giving you an inside look into the dynamic world of startups. chase jarvis is the co-founder of creative live, a startup that helps educate people with creative ambitions. he himself was a photographer where he helped other entrepreneurs with photography. 10 million plus youtubeviews. wow. >> i'm creator of one of the world's fastest online education companies. we're a community of over a million strong from 250 countries worldwide. has the best instructors, pulitzer prize winners, "new york times" best selling authors and top entrepreneurs go to teach real skill-based learning, learning that can help enhance

your career and hobby and help you transition into that dream job. we currently offer classes in video and productivity and software training and adding classes all the time. how it works is simple. we broadcast all of our classes live in full hd and anyone in the world can watch for free. you can communicate with the instructors via social channels like twitter and facebook and there's obligation to buy but if you like what you see you can purchase at any time. we purchased from gray lock-for-7.5 million so come on and see what's going on at creative live.com. hard to argue with free education from the world's best. >> chase is on the right side of the screen. cannot react just yet and our panel cnbc media reporter julia boorstin and one of the first firms to invest in a little company you might have heard about, called amazon.

>> free makes me a little nervous. a little confused about the business model. if they will be charging 100 bucks for people to charge it later, seems like a pretty big investment and it seems like people will need to be sure that that content will be useful for them. >> len, your concerns? >> i would love to see them dig in how they are doing it against competition. a pretty crowded space and i would like to learn how they are doing it in news sectors beyond photograph? >> are you concerned how you stabbed out in a field where there seems to be i don't want to call them accept he have video but do it yourself videos everywhere on the web these days. >> would like to see chase dog to how they are differentiating themselves from these space. >> chase a seattle-based guy but happy to have him here on set. >> thanks are for having me. appreciate it. >> now you're officially in the hot seat. len in your hometown of seattle. they want to ask you a few questions as do i. >> i know you've had a lot of success in your niche but what's the business model and how will you scale this business when you

have so many competitors, many of whom are offering services for free? >> anyone in the world can watch for free and only if you want a cope of it to rewind or watch later you press buy. been profitable since day one and know our model works. we deliver the highest quality education content that there is online and people have told us and shown us with their pocketbooks that they are willing to pay and own the course. >> chase, it sounds like you built a great audience in the photography space, and one of the questions i have is have they been able to take the audience with you in the new categories like business and software and are you making money in those spaces? >> it was in photography and video, and as we expanded also seen our audience expand greatly and the engagement as well and allows us as we move into this business and productivity classes, health and wellness, some of the other channels or verticals we're seeing a really great opportunity to enroll a

lot more teachers and experts and people that want to learn. >> people don't want to teach to the world. >> how big is your audience? >> we've education more than 200 people worldwide. >> do you have a way to track how many people watch it once or come back and don't come back? >> seen a huge amount of people that are repurchasing which is a great sign for us? >> let's go to the sexy part of this which is in or out? >> we'll begin with you, you heard. chase's pitch, are you in or are you out of creative live? >> i have to admit. originally it was very skeptical, seemed like a very niche business but i like the fact that they have been profitable for from so early on and even if it's a relatively small market, you convinced me that i'm in. >> i lost business mold, and this free to watch and pay to keep is very novel. i think it works for instructors and students and obviously working for the company. if they are able to scale that model into some of the new

verticals in spaces really focused on professional skill development i think that could be a huge company. i'm in. >> i'm smart to know what i don't know and the model is still evolving, graylock ventures who put in a round with you, a very, very successful firm. 200 million views. you said you are profitable as julia noted pretty much from day one and online learning is really the way to go. you have to fight. won't be an easy road but i would say to complete the trifecta i am also in. >> good to hear. >> creativity is the new literacy this. platform can scale and we haven't seen anything for which this model doesn't work and as we move from photography and video to design, film make, productivity and health and wellness we continue to see everything grow. >> very optimistic with three ins. chase jarvis of creative live, len, julia, thank you, and thank you all for watching the power pitch. >> very interesting. three ins there, so are you in or out?

heard what the panelists had to say, vote today on power pit pitch@cnbc.com. >> who knows, sue, maybe carl icahn is going to tweet on it. >> you never know, ty. you absolutely never know. >> all right. we're seeing a selloff in the market right now. the dow is down about 125 points or so. bob pisani joins me here at post 9 on the floor of the nyse, and we're looking for some headlines that perhaps might have pushed this, but maybe it's a low volume summer selloff. >> jim bullard i understand from the fed is supposed to be giving informal talks at a rotary club meeting in kentucky right now. he is supposed to give a formal speech at 3:15, that's eastern time on challenges to monetary policy, so i don't see any headlines though, so, again, he's supposed to give this informal talk at a rotary club in tennessee. maybe he is speaking, but i just don't see them right now.

>> let me just point out, sue, this pattern has been fairly common where you move down going into or around 12:00 near the european close and then move sideways. normally through theout the day and come the last few weeks, you see it drift up. it's moving lower. a lot of people complained about the low volume and said what can we do? i have a technical word for it called august. some sectors are doing very well right now. let me just show you what's hot right now. take a look. europe has been doing very well, and an exchange-traded fund has done very well. there's china which has been hot and this is what's going on so far for the month and anything around china has been doing well. emerging markets have been strong, up 2.9%. anything around steel has been up. a 9% move in steel stocks and, again, this is around china and finally, sue, just want to mention the dangers of trading momentum stocks, been a gigantic mover recently, and the stock is down 20%, just a slight earnings

disappointment but just a slight one overall. >> thank you very much, bob pisani. >> art cashin came by post 9 and you can wander on by and tell me what you're hearing. art is right behind me. you said we broke some technicals this morning. tell me. >> they couldn't get the bounceback rally started. bob has remarked on this for the past two weeks. we've been seeing the markets make a u-shape and v-shape. they have difficulty with it, and when they went back to the morning lows and broke them, that's when it suddenly spiked down. it was kind of a failure selloff. people were waiting for a bounce and you tested the low and you failed the test and they didn't study for it. >> and then they sold it off. >> art cashin, as always, thanks old friend. >> there's a technical commentary. >> absolutely. >> we put up the dow intraday, and we did move. something behind this and did move below the earlier lows of the day. there you see around 11 and

1,130. >> thanks. uptown now to the nasdaq and seema mody who is following the moves there. >> reporter: apple is bucking the downward trend in the market. hedge fund manager leon cooperman telling snoebz's scott wapner that he agrees with icahn that apple is chief. that's a bright spot. other bright spots include enviedia and netflix also on the move to the upside and also take a look at shares of blackberry once again on the move. stock is lower today but it is up about 18% since we first got word last friday that blackberry may be open to going private, a story that we continue to follow. sue, back to you. >> thank you very much, seema mody. gold prices closing right now and bertha coombs is tracking the action. >> reporter: the weaker dollar following the ppi. gold up about 1.5% for the month, but the real move has been in the industrial met al.

silver, though precious, also has an industrial component. take a look at its monthly performance, george garros saying there's a prospect for better demand with bert data coming out of europe and certainly what we've been seeing out of china and take a look at copper, copper as well. copper at its highest levels since june 7th. sue? >> thanks very much, bertha. one of the characteristics of the markets today has been a rise in the bond, the ten-year note yield to just about the 2.7% mark and rick santelli follows that. dollar index follows it all and he's at the cme for us right now. >> thanks, sue. if you have a sticky note ton write treasury yields are sticky because they are. granted, no curve implications today. pretty much all maturities are one basis point higher in yield, and look at 249-hour chart of 10s. note very range route around 10:00 a.m. eastern when there was the ppi numbers.

the dynamic that's shown in place, stickiness and opening the charts, stickiness there. let's switch gears just a bit. let's look at the euro and look at a one-year chart of the euro and i'll tell you why this is interesting, is i'd defy any technician to make it's a bill you are chart. very few saying it's a boy and with you doing a little bit better the rates are moving higher. the spread between our ten and their ten. this might be a spread that narrows and a spread you want to watch. tyler, back to you. >> all right, and, rick, we're watching some headlines now out of fed president -- st. louis fed president bullard saying that inflation is running a little lower than trend or what the expectation is, but that doesn't mean it could not be a higher inflation risk for the future. also says that having put a stake in the ground that the fed wants inflation to be as a target number about 2%.

it doesn't hit that target and really back up those pledges. its credibility could be on the line. so far he says inflation has not materialized as you see there despite some people's worries over quantitative easing or the stimulus bond buying that the fed has engaged in. >> on will home front, fewer americans applying for mortgages and what it's saying about the health of housing right now. if you like the power pitch, you love escaping the q. meet men and women fed up with their desk jobs and looking to combine their passion with business success. this week from banking to brewing. that's friday on "power lunch"'s new series "escaping the cube." this man is about to be the millionth customer.

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to housing now and the number of people applying for mortgages has hit a fresh one-month low. diana olick joins us now from washington with the details. hi, diana. >> that's right, tyler, hi. mortgage rates did resume their fall last week, even as rates edged down just a little bit, but something really curious is happening in the market. that is that jumbo rates and conforming rates are almost

exactly the same. take a look. 4.56% on the conforming and 4.57% on the jumbo, according to a new report today from the mortgage bankers association. just to recap a conforming loan is 417,000 or less but can be as high as 625,000 in high-cost housing markets. a jumbo loan is anything above that. historical average on the spread is roughly 25 basis points, ranging as high as 50 during normal market conditions and 300 basis points at the peak of the housing crash. that's from dave stevens, ceo of the mortgage bankers. in the only is the spread down to one basis points but the rate on jumbo loans is actually below that than the rate on conforming. why is this happening? okay, two reasons. number one, fannie and freddie are charging very high guarantees to the banks now, nearly twice as what they were a year ago and on the flip side for the jumbo loans, the banks have pretty cheap credit and are

able to land at the lower rates. add those two together and the margin squeeze is very tight. plenty more, of course, online, reali i reallycheck.cnbc.com. >> sleep aids helping people and drugs for gazillion airs. inside oracle's ceo larry ellison's high-end restaurant. that and more when we return right after this. why hp built kind of server. one that's 80% smaller. uses 89% less energy. and costs 77% less. it's called hp moonshot. and it's giving the internet the room it needs to grow. this&is gonna be big. hp moonshot. it's time to build a better enterprise. together. ♪

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we'll show you the viral video every office is talking about today. just how much do these kids parents pay to raise the bar in bar mitzvah. remember, folks, top of the hours, news conference beginning. tune in. back on "power lunch." >> aye yay yay. >> first up, the fda looking into the potential negative side effects sleep aids may have on doctors. this from a sleep doctor we love from hackensack medical. sleep aid medications are a big industry because patients often look for a readily available fix for their insomnia, even if there is an underlying behavioral or medical sleep problem that should be treated. is the medication to blame or the people who take them? >> insomnia is a serious problem. a lot of people have trouble going to sleep, so people do need something. a lot of people i know need something to help put them to sleep at night. i don't.

i sleep well, peacefully, so i think it's the medication. people need this stuff. we need to get the medics in better so that they are not waking up. >> bob, this is sort of a hangover effect that people are drowsy when they get up. i've taken the over-the-counter things and you're a little logy the next morning. >> people don't know if they are impaired. you feel a little more fuzzy. >> the problem isn't the drugs but the lifestyle that we're all leading. 24 hours on. got to work 15 hours a day and have to come home and fall asleep in ten minutes and it's just not normal the way we're actually living. >> i could be prepared right now, bob, and we didn't know. >> just the sales of diet soft drinks plummet coca-cola taking out new ads defending the use of artificial sweeteners. what do you make of the timing here, bob? >> well, i think the timing is not coincident a. i look up, coke fell 1% and sales, diet coke fell 3%. look, i don't think there's a lot they can do to change a lot

of the perceptions that the public has about sugary drinks or even diet sugary drinks, but stay in water. coke owns dasani and pepsi aquafina and as far as i know sales are great. >> i'd buy the critics of diet soda which say, look, when you get a taste for very sweet things, it encourages you to follow that taste which may -- even though you're not getting a lot of calories from the diet soda, you may end up eating more cupcakes and candy and more non-diet soda but the picture is the beverage companies are very scared because of the great age of, you know, soft drinks and appears to be fading. >> that's been with us forever, and they are not going to be with us. >> not content with an entire hawaiian island, also owns dozens of mansions along the california coastline so it makes sense that the oracle of malibu would open up a restaurant there so he can hang out with his buddies, a group the hollywood reporter describes as people in bikini bottoms with hermes bags

eating gazillion air grub. at a restaurant, why not, guys, john? >> this basically describes my lifestyle when i'm not here, but what i'll say is it makes a lot of sense. go ahead. he's got a ton of money if he want to blow it in the restaurant business. feel free, larry. invite me over sometime. i'll come by. >> have you read the reviews. great views, big plates and very small food, little food on the plate. little food. one said the patio is beautiful and when the sun goes done they don't have a lamp. >> it's dark over there. >> our producer did some research and she found out you can get a reservation at this place. >> maybe that's a bad sign. >> a very bad sign. >> if there's one guy i like having dinner with it's bob pisani. he knows where the good restaurants are. >> i like that wine. >> looks two feet tall. >> apple, google, one hedge fund titan on the street making major moves on the stocks.

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welcome back to "power lunch." i'm josh lipton. it's 13-f season meaning america's biggest money managers

are holding their earnings. one of the biggest, leon cooperman's, he takes new stakes in apple and oracle and agrees with carl icahn that apple is cheaply valued. on the flip side cuts his hold to go a few names including google, merck rand ain aig. "power lunch," we're back in two. at cognizant, we help forward-looking companies run better and run different - to give your customers every reason to keep looking for you. so if you're ready to see opportunities and see them through, we say: let's get to work. because the future belongs to those who challenge the present.

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welcome back to "power lunch." i'm kate kelly here at headquarter. we're waiting to here from the offices charges this morning against two former jpmorgan charges in connection with a $6 billion london whale debacle. half jer martin-artajo and julien grout, a more junior level trader for marking value on jpmorgan's books. accused four charges of wire fraud. during a period of several months it's alleged they mismarked the company's position, grout did at the behest of martin-artajo and now

a parallel case has been filed. we'll learn more from the men who brought this case in just a couple of minutes. >> thanks very much, kate kelly. appreciate that. very interesting story evolving there. sue? >> and the dow right now is down 110 points. digit loss. that does it for all of us on "power lunch." right, ty? >> and "street signs" begins right now. and we begin with breaking news. a news conference bringing charges against two former jpmorgan traders tied to the london whale chase. preet barrera, known as the chief of wall street, about to take the stage. we'll bring that to you live. bob pisani and kate kell and herb greenberg and possible binsy as well. thanks for joining