bill akman is pulling out of his entire jc penney position. here's my advice. if you believe like i do that jc penney has bottomed, this actually might be a decent investment. okay? there's always a bull market to -- i'll see you tomorrow. some tough talk on syria today from secretary kerry. it looks like the u.s. is very close to military action in syria. that tough talk also sent stocks lower and gold higher. we'll have the latest on this developing story from damascus to washington to weight. another developing story, the debt ceiling battle is heating up. treasury secretary jack lew has sent a letter to boehner, warning twha the debt limit will be r50e67d in october. how will the gop respond? and don't forget about the economy.

more evidence out today there will be no second-half economic rebound. does that push the fed taper way back? might your mortgage rates be coming back down? all those stories and more coming up on "the kudlow report", beginning right now. this is "the kudlow report." first up, the u.s. getting closer and closer to military intervention. secretary of state john kerry left little room for doubt. nbc news's steve handelsman has the details. >> good evening, larry. keep in mind the united nations investigation is not complete. this is the unilateral conclusion of the obama administration, presented dramatically today by a man not usually given to public shows of emotion, u.s. secretary of state john kerry stating it is

america's conclusion that syria used chemical weapons. >> and despite the excuses and equalify indications that some have manufactured, it is undeniable. president obama believes there must be accountable for those who would use the world's most heinous weapons against the world's most vulnerable people. nothing today is more serious and nothing is receiving more serious scrutiny. >> the pentagon tells nbc news, larry, that tonight five u.s. warships with cruise missile firing capability, four destroyers, one submarine are stationed in the mediterranean sea. the u.n. inspectors did get in the sites, but they get in so late, experts say, they may not be able to get the kind of residue tests needed to verify the use of chemical weapons, so the obama administration's move

past that. it says it's happened. now comes the reaction. larry, back to you. >> many thanks, steve handlesman. we appreciate it. it's virtually certain that u.s. military force will be used. the question -- what will the attack look like? second question, will it overthrow bashar al assad. joining mess is gary bernstein. joininging mess from seattle is barry mccaffery. cruise missiles hitting what? you. >> i sure hope -- that employed these weapons. thousands sickened, hundreds killed. this would have been a significant, several hundred rounds of rocket artillery

delivering sarin nerve agent. so there should be relatively easy to find forensic evidence that these weapons were employed. clearly chemicals are used, the question is by whom? if we attack them with a tithe for at that time -- tit for tat attack, and it turns out -- with the u.n. inspection teams just having arrived in country, very skeptical. >> gary, let me therefore ask you the same question. is there enough evidence that john kerry essentially declared that the evidence is there? a moral object senity? children were affected by this sarin nerve gas. in your judgment, is there enough evidence for the united states to take military action? >> well, hopefully they've got intelligence on this, hopefully on intercept on people firing things.

hopefully they've had sources carry out samples. there's a base of sources that they have to have on the ground. there are forecountries with people on the ground there. it's hard for me to believe they wouldn't find some evidence. i understand general mccaffery's point, you want to make sure, first off, they were fired and it's clear who fired them. they should be able to see from, you know, what locations those rockets were fired, there is got to be technical coverage having gone on out there. that should be available. >> john mccaffery, i'm going to come back to you on this point. let me assume that the united states will follow through as john kerry mentioned, it looks like the president is determined. general mccaffery, these missiles, can they take out government buildings? can they take out so-called government palaces? here's my question, a naive one, but i want to get your take.

can we do so much damage to syria and its government in damascus and wherever, that the military or what's left of them will take out assad, either take him out, throw him in jail or just assassinate him? because this could be a turning point in this entire war. what is your take on that possibility? the navy's weapons are incredibly effective. having said that, unless we did something significant like eroded his armed helicopters and aircraft, or went after the people that run the command and control, not the equipment, we will not make a significant impact on this war i want why wouldn't we go after the command and control people? >> well, i hope we do. if we're going to use military power, it should be effective.

i would actually give the u.s. armed forces 60 days to beat them up and to hope that we could take away the aerial advantage and go after the command and control, and tip it toward the direct atof the rebels. >> gary berndtsen, if we take out the command and control, take out the airports, make them completely unusable. at what point does the syrian military just surrender, and as they surrender, they take out assad? that's what i want to know. none of these dictators are as strong as we think they are. look how had you sane was 2ku6r7d? >> hezbollah that is moved in a militia, there are thousands of forces, hezbollah forces, iranian advisers in there.

he's not going anywhere. he's going to stay for the fight. this is not anywhere near over. he believes he's going to get the support he needs. hezbollah went in and assisted people and iran during the green revolution. here's a return of hezbollah people to another location, you know, the shia from lebanon are on the ground, and you have iranian forces helping him. the best thing we can do is degrade his -- and i think that if you do that, you sustain that for a period of time, then it will have some effect, but it's not going to happen overnight, and he's not going to throw in the towel. >> my point is -- >> he's not throwing in the towel. >> i don't know that the that's what i'm asking. if the damage is great enough, general mccaffery, you're talking 660 days. if the damage is great enough, who knows what may happen? all of this may turn around. or what, therefore, if we can't overthrow assad, if we're not going to roil up some milital c

detau, did we write down the political purpose of using military power? did we outline the military objective? general marty dempsey, the chairman, has been pretty clear, he doesn't want to go in because it will require significant deployment of u.s. military power. one volley of tomahawks gets us involved in the war, but doesn't change the situation on the ground. the u.s. air force and navy can flat take out his aircraft and armed helicopters if you give them the time, but this is not a one-night strike. >> i understand that, but 60 days, sir, what would that do? 60 days' worth of the air force. >> if we combined it with support of the rebels on the ground we probably end of

destabilizing the regime, and we end up with a dysfunctional fragmented syria with a follow-on civil war possibly run by sunni extremi jihadis. >> gentlemen, thank you. we appreciate it. now, next up, treasury secretary has fired the first sthot in team obama's latest debt ceiling battle with the gop. he tells john boehner that we will hit the debt limit for sure in mid-october. i ask, what happens next? later on, a new study makes it clear we feed the keytone pipeline more than ever, but now a new state department excuse may put off the decision until well into next year instead of this autumn as originally promised. please don't forget free market capital inch is the best path to prosperity. that means building pipelines to power the economy.

i'm kudlow, "the kudlow report" will be right back.

the nation's debt continues to tick upwards, near $17 trillion form today treasury secretary jack lew warned john

boehner that the limb will be hit about mid-october. is the obama team set to play ball? or will the fiscal stalemeat lead, or worst a debt default this fall? john harwood is going to ask the trekry secretary in an exclusive interview on "squawk box" tomorrow morning, but let's get the lowdown on the republican response from robert costa of "the national review." i think the mid october deadline on the debt, bob costa is something of a surprise. what do you reckon the gop responsible will be? >> it will be this. they'll want to cut a deal. it's a divided government. they're looking for entitlement reform, maybe some spending cuts as well. >> what are we talking about here? six weeks? wait, this is the end of august,

so four weeks in september, and i'm going to call it two, three weeks in october, so maybe seven weeks. i'll even give you see two months. ush saying they'll negotiate a whole deal in seven or eight weeks? >> here's why. we've seen from speaker boehner a signal he'll pass a short-term resolution to fund the government for 60 to 90 days. that means the limit and the -- will lead to perhaps a grand bargain. that's what he's looking for. >> what about the boehner rule, that any increase in the debt ceiling has to be accompanied by a spending cut? he said that again recently of course, he said that two years ago. >> the white house wants to pass a clean debt limit, but boehner is under immense pressure. he needs a deal that either has something like change cpi

entitlement reforms or as you say, has some spending cuts attached. >> the discretionary money runs out september 31st, october? september 30th, i beg your pardon. october 1st, the government will either have no money for discretionary spending, or they will. so does the cr, the continuing resolution is that where policy decisions will be made even before we get to this debt deal you're describing? >> very doubtful. this is confusioning for even us reporters in washington, but boehner is playing a chess game. he has to pick a fight with the debt limit or with the continuing resolution. from what i hear, he's going to use a debt limit to wring concessions out of the white house. why not the cr? that could lead to a government shutdown, and the presentation of that, the way the media interprets it, the public back lash wouldn't be any good for republicans. >> robert costa, from "the

national review." thank you very much. paul tonko, democrat from new york, david waker, e -- shweikeo you first. you have to have a continues resolution. as far as i know, speaker boehner wants to keep the sequester in the continuing resolution. he's not going to give that up, and there's not going to be a clean bill. there will be more spending cuts there. what do you hear on the cr? >> well, larry, and hi, paul, i've got to tell you i think it may turn out to be more complicated than that. i know that is what the speaker has laid out on the table, but now that jack lew and treasury have moved back the date, or shall we say you said the date, are you now looking at an environment where you'll see

many of us say let's do a total package. >> can it all by done in one package? remember, boehner is saying -- and this is very important, paul -- boehner has said any number of times, including a couple days ago in some sort of republican conference call, that he will keep the sequester spending caps. president obama desperately wants to get rid of the sequester spending caps to spend on his pet projects. how is this going to work out? >> let's hope we do the right thing, and it's good to join us and my colleague from arizona. kicking the can down the road, in other words, a continuing resolution avoids dealing with the issues at hand. america doesn't want that we can

take the house version, and the united states senate has adopted its verbs, the president has issued a fiscal plan. let's name the conferrees. so we can come to the table, deal with the situation that provides certainty and move forward with the budget that is sound and we can go on with business. that is absolutely essential right now. >> that is obama care, as you know. over the weekend senator ted cruz said defunding obama care is not there. he's acknowledging that, he's going to continue his analysis and his crusade. however, dave schweiders. republicans in the house want to delay the mandate. many believe that delay of the individual man dade should be part of either a continuing resolution and/or a debt ceiling

with some leverage. what is your take on that? do we go over to the senate for a vote? >> larry, you have to be careful. you may be negotiating salts ahead of us now. paul hit sort of one of the points that a lot of us are pushing for. there's an omnibus budget bill, that we finally stake our budget, because we need to fix or prioritization or spending. we've been living with this insanity for four years, and yes, there had be head butting. and yes, i've got to tell you there's people that want to keep the sequestration numbers, people like me who want to defund or change those priorities in obamacare, but that's actually an opportunity that's coming up. could you do that omnibus budget packet and some solutions on the

debt ceiling. i will tell you you need to be a little more creative than we have been in both the way we prioritize the debt? there are options out there. >> paul tonko, speaker boehner has said again and again, so have paul cantor, and i think david schweikert. they don't want to shut down the government. the debt ceiling part is completely different. as you know, paul, a majority of republicans in the house, a very large majority, and many in the senate, and maybe some democrats in the senate up for reelection, they want to do something about obamacare, and the unfairness of the individual mandate, which has no security to it, as you know, while the business mandate was put off a year, they want to delay the individual mandate. that vote is a very important vote. can it be part of a debt deal? that's what i'm asking.

>> i don't think it should be. look, the president who signed the affordable care act has been since then been reecelebritied. the highest court in the land, the supreme court defended the law. they said it meets the constitutional test. let us go on and get to the business of belt tightening, investing where we must after we cut where we can. we need a sound budget here, need to go forward and not continue to go forward with this repeal of the affordable care act. you know, my district, i know people want their right to accessible, affordable quality health care. they don't want a repeal, so let's improve together. i don't hear -- i hear repeal, i don't hear replace. >> i get it. it's delay. dave schweikert, what's out there now is an effort to delay for at least a year the

individual mandate. okay? there's no verification, no firewall security, the consumer caps are removed. you know the story. the question i'm asking is, will the debt ceiling issue, will that be used as leverage to have a discussion or a vote on delays the individual mandate? that's what people are asking. >> okay. larry, i get this question all the time. how could the president do the extension for a year for businesses and not for individuals? but i need you to think a little bigger, at least as this begins. a lot of us are going to demand a lot more than just the delay of the individual mandate. all right. we'll leave it there. thank you to both -- >> why delayed the affordable care act when it cuts the deficit? >> wait. last one? >> look at who's model the number. that's lunacy when you actually

look at what it ultimately does in the creation of entitlement. >> i don't have time to get there. my interest is, look, i am opposed -- i'm telling you wall street, global financial markets, will go nuts as they did a couple years ago if there's a threat of a debt default. i'm telling you it's a nonstarter financially. >> i couldn't agree more. >> no one is talking about default. >> i understand. i'm just saying -- >> don't met with the creditworthyness of the united states. >> i see a clash. >> we have obligations. >> i understand, but that argument doesn't work for more than a few days. i see a clash. >> but you've got to stop using language -- >> i don't have time to argue with you, but dave, i will tell you that's completely incorrect. the government did not finance itself the way you you are talking about. you can't do it. >> go back to august 2011,. >> i did it was a catastrophe. >> the bond market was

amazingly -- >> i know, but the stock market cracked up, because that's where the capital was pulled out. it was never a bond event. >> but offense it default, it would be the debt market. you've got something wrong out there -- >> you can't default -- >> american families pay their bills. they expect their country to do the same thing. >> you can't cover military spending veteran spending, you can't -- i'll go through this arithmetic one more time. i've got to get out of here. thank you, gentlemen. paul tonko, and dave schweikert. tomorrow morning john harwood will have an exclusive interview with treasury secretary jack lew. the wildfires are still burning and threatening water and power supplying to san francisco. a live report from the fire zone is coming up. please stay with us.

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[ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] the wildfire could soon call major problems for people in san francisco. cnbc's scott cohn is live in california. good evening, scott. >> good evening, larry. that is the worry. there is good news that despite some damage to a power station

in yosemite national park, there haven't been any disruptions. they had to a buy some power on the open market for about $600,000. that's not such a bad thing. they do not believe the water supply will be effected. so that's a big -- the fact that this fire is now 16% contained that means that 85% is burning out of control. that's a big sure. it's already burned about 240 square miles, an area roughly the size of the city of chicago. the number of people fighting this fire is swelling almost as fast as the size of is the fire. firefighters on the front lines are trying to knock this down, as well as fire crews going door to door in places lie tualamie city to try to get people to clear out of the combustibles,

and be the second line of defense. the state of california's resourcessh strapped like every other unit of government. they've already eaten up a quarter of their budget for the whole year. >> some people like to say we have some extra money, let's go spend it. we do have to keep a decent reserve. this is august. what's going to happen in september in terms of fires? we don't know. >> reporter: that's just the state of california, which has about a dozen fires burning right now. there are wildfires burning in 11 states right now, according to the forest service, and the federal fire suppression budget is already depleted. they're having to borrow from elsewhere in the government, resources stretched to the limit as the fires continue to burn. >> scott cohn, we appreciate it. more evidence came in

showing a sloppy economy. i still don't see any great second-half rebound. how in the world can the fed start dialing things back now? that's next up on kudlow.

welcome back. more economic news to back up

what i've been saying for weeks -- the economy is not ready for a september fed tightening. durable goods order for july plunged more than 7%. non-defense capital goods also save. you have to add that to friday's 13% drop in new home sales. you just have to wonder where is this much vaunted second-half economic xwrout rebound coming from? let's talk. art laffer, and john sylvia, and john tam any. i think capital goods spending has been lousy for this entire so-called recovery. here they go again. the numbers across the board all negative for the month of july. >> well, there is no second-half rebound, i think. what you'll see i think on september 18th, larry, is that the fed will in fact lower its

expectations for economic growth in 2013. remember, for the last three years, economic growth has been 2%. i expect it again this year. it is growth, but it's not accelerating. >> i agree with that 100%. john tamney, why would the central bank tighting in any way, shape other form much, for, what is it year 5? >> simply because the fed is the problem. i'm probably preaching to the choir. there are no companies or jobs without investment first. investors are buying future income streams. why on earth would we empower the fed to explicitly devalue the income streams. >> art, what about this interest rate jump? round numbers, art, long-term

rates are up, what, 120 basis points? that's a pretty big number for a fairly weak economy. how much damage will that rate hike be? >> i don't think it will do any damage at all. it's almost all in the tip shield. if you look rat that, it's the expected real return on a unit of capital over the next ten year els. i think that's a good sign for the future. it's still way too low, but it's going to go higher, and i think it's time for the fed to stop controlling the crisis. you restrict the supply to suppliers or restrict the demand to demanders. they should just let markets be free and stabilize price levels. >> we love that, but the fed won't. >> no, they won't do that irlgts right now there's a fed bloodbath going on. >> this whole yellen/summers thing.

maybe timothy geithner will mediate it, maybe he'll be the compromise choice, i don't know that, but art, there isn't a single one of these guys. who wants a predictable rule, whether it's a tailor rule or dollar exchange rule or laffer or tamny rule here. >> wouldn't it be wonderful to get john taylor in there to do it right? what they have to do is figure out how to unwind. >> larry, i would say one other thing, though, i think the whole debate about who is the chairman is going to i think already has raised uncertainly about what the outlook for the future is. again, when you start debating who is running the show, there's a lot of uncertainty as there is in any private company. >> i don't even think you necessarily need to unwind, as

art wrote long ago, if you you have a credible monetary policy, demand for that money would rise substantial substantially. if the fed were focused on a stable dollar, there would be no need to unwind all this ridiculous qe, but for now the existence is lubricating the economy and we won't recover with it. >> one thing, larry, when you have excess reserves, that's a bit excessive for just running a new rule. that's all i'm saying here. you've got to unwide something. >> on top of that, art, you've got a double whammy tax hike for 2013, right? one already back in january. that's when tax -- capital gains. you get a second raise from obamacare. >> huge. >> unless it's miraculously repealed or delayed. that's double whammy. i don't think that's pro-growth

or very supply-side. >> no, it's not i don't see this great new economy coming. >> i don't think there will be when you keep trying the same old policies. you're going to keep getting those bad results. you cannot tax an economy into prosperity. just as simple as that. equally as dumb, larry, a poor person cannot spend himself into wealth. it just doesn't make sense. we have to change our politics. >> and then john silvia, i don't want to be too pessimistic. i don't believe we're going back to a recession. we just haven't had much of a recovery. so many of the so-called new jobs are part-time jobs with rather low earnings, in the low end of the industries. we're not created new entrepreneurial companies, just sort of creating rock bottom, people's incomes are actually

fallinging. that's why i like at they numbers on business vehement and say it's basically not happening. the thing's just not happening. >> it's going to be the fourth year in a row of 2% gdp, or maybe even this year a little less. we are creating jobs, but when you look at the jobs combined with the wages and compensation, it's the income that driving the economy. it's just not showing up to give any sense of a rebound in the u.s. economy, certainly in the second half of this year. >> john tamny, i'm going to make you king for the day. right now, three things you want the government in washington to do. three things to give us a 5% or 6% growth rate. give me them, three things. >> economic growth is simple. stabilize the value of the dollar say around 800 god, reduce the tax rate, so the government is not penalizing

effort. and let's open our markets to all foreign goods, regardless of whether they open their markets to us. >> how about reforming the tax system so some of that overseas money would come back home for a change? >> that's going to happen either way. money that's banked will always be lent somewhere. the biggest barrier i think to growth right now is a federal reserve that will not get out of its own way. without investment there won't be new companies and new job. >> and the fed is just killing itself to succeed bernanke. thank you all. appreciate it, gentlemen. now, what's the combination of a slowing economy and probable intervention in syria mean for stocks? we're going to take a look at your money, next up. she loves a lot of the same things you do.

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yeah. i heard about progressive's "name your price" tool? i guess you can tell them how much you want to pay and it gives you a range of options to choose from. huh? i'm looking at it right now. oh, yeah? yeah. what's the... guest room situation? the "name your price" tool, making the world a little more progressive. j.c. penney faults nearly 2% in after-hours trade. pershing square is selling its entire 18% stake in the company. ackman had an acrimonious split in the company as he publicly pushed for a new ceo. the board got angry, he resigned

from the board and now is getting rid of 39 million shares of j.c. penney stock. this is a huge loss for ackman, courtney reagan reporting that the average purchase was was $25 per share. that would likely mean a loss of $400 million in about three years. larry, back to you. that is some serious change. >> you win some, you lose some. almost certain military intervention knocked down stocks today. the big story was the plunge in business investment. maybe even next we're. i continue to think bond rates are going to drop. here's what our market pros have to say. mary glazer.

how did this guy make money? >> wall street is a mean and unfwrendly place, and you saw a lot of people with carl icahn have some fun. it is a tough place to do business. performance can be fleeting. it's tough to maintain your reputation. the fastest way to put j.c. penney out of business is if we bomb syria and see $2 oil. that would be the death of the consumer. perhaps there's a lot of things going on behind the scenes, none of which is probably positive, and i'm sure he's chasing his tail. >> michael cuggino, in fact we are going to bomb syria, probably for the next two months. i don't know if the price of oil will skyrocket. it doesn't today, but it might have closed too soon before secretary of state kerry's speech. if we bomb syria, what happens?

do bond rates keep falling? >> well, i don't know if you can blame all those things on syria. i suppose they're all possible, but i think the extent or nature of what we do there is still very much in flux. i think from a foreign policy standpoint, we have to understand or exit strategy. this is what happens when you get ultimate tums, now you're forced to manage around that. i think the markets recognize that, so maybe that was part of the sell-off. just as much, it's a initted weakness and mixed nature of economic signals, potentially showing a u.s. slowdown. >> that's the key point. let me come back to that point. in the second half the year that so many of my fellow economists see, and it happened again today with the capital goods report.

now, larry, i think there's a reasonably good chance that long-term interest rates, which have already started falling and they fell today, syria maybe, capital goods maybe, i think there's a bond market rally here. i don't know about stocks, but i think long-term rates can dropped, i don't know, 40, 50 basis points easily. >> i hate it, but that's where we are. when you combine that with the syrian safety trade, it is good for bonds. investors will be increasingly looking for the safety and the income component that you find in places like municipal bonds. if bonds have been beaten up all year, looking it i herer income stream, looking at uncertainty and saying maybe i'll clip some coupons for a while. maybe that's not a bad place to hide, at u.s. returns to dysfunction itches ooh, that reminds me. mr. cuggino, besides syria,

besides a soft recovery, beside the fed tapering, now we have a possible government shutdown and a possible debt limit ceiling problem. michael cuggino, where does one run and hide and invest under those circumstances? >> well, i think you stay very diversified. i think as long as the fed's involved, you can make money in stocks, though i think the better part of the gains in the stock market have already been made this year, and we've been advising clients for a long time now, have an exit strategy, have a chair when the music stops, take some money off the table, because stocks are at risk. you're long in the tooth, four years into a bull market, and you've mentioned some of those factors. we would advocate bonds. we think the trading range has gotten wider with bonds. maybe from a yield standpoint we're at the higher end, but i would agree with you, we've not been believers in robust economic growth all year, so

we're not surprised by this. i can see rates coming back down. >> larry glazer and michael cuggino, i appreciate it. gentlemen, thank you very much. now, what's the holdup this time with the keystony pipeline? >> that's despite the growing need for more pipelines all over the country. we'll have that story next up on kudlow. from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

new data in "wall street

journal" mos that oil transportation in thes is skyrocketing and we need the pipeline expansion more than ever, but suddenly the state department has come up with a conflict of interest charge. now the decision on the keystone pipeline mass be pushed well into 2014, then there's the interior testament's endangered species charges. who will it take to get the keystone finished and the other pipelines out there 1234. >> john kilduff, ray ola, thank you for coming on. this state department thing, can i just start there? we were supposed to get a keystone pipeline decision right about now. right about now, and now they have their own regs, and some b.s. conflict of interest charge. what can you tell us about it? >> it's unbelievable. it's been five years now we've

had four comprehensive state department reviews, the latest one say no significant environmental risk. we have been transporting and using canadian oilsands crude for 40 years now, so is i can't imagine there's any more excuses out there. it's really unbelievable that delay after delay after delay. >> john kilduff, from this great "wall street journal" article, $40 billion? >> $40 billion of projects in the works. like a huge $40 billion stimulus, but by the private sector. >> and good-paying jobs. so if the keystone thing, they bury that, that's a tragedy if they bury that. do they other pipeline plants -- they're talking about reversing the flow of oil and all kinds of new transportation we're going to talk about in a minute. will these other pipelines cover what the keystone should have

done? >> no, that canadian crude will be stranded there. there's almost as much opposition in canada to send it to the west coast, as there is for the environmentalists here. i mean, larry this i think is the holy grail for environmentalists in this country because of the extraction shun me have. they use natural gas to get it out of the ground, so it has a double carbon footprint. that's what makes environmentalists push back, so president obama is trying to run for the high ground or get out of town on this one. >> rayola, whatever this memo is, they're worried about glowworms or endangered species or harming wildlife. i always thought they liked to snuggle under the pipeline, because it gave them warmth. >> i don't know if they're worried about glowworms. we did find out that the animals liked the alaskan crude oil pipeline quite a bit.

who knows? it is one excuse after another. this carbon footprint concern, the canadian oilsands barrel is very similar in carbon footprint to crude that we are importing and yoot in the united states. so no different than many of the slates of crude that we're out there and processing and using. in addition, the canadian oilsands have over a million barrels a day that we're using in our refineries. so these excuses have been going on for a very long time. >> john kilduff, trucks, barges, trains have benefited from the pipeline shortage. if i may, i have nothing against trucks, i have nothing against trains, i have not against barges. i though the i had been reading that -- >> on or about by gnarl and more efficient, and you talk about the fuel usage that goes into extracting it or transporting it. much higher. it really was under reported

this derailment in canada, that killed 47 people. if it happened here, i think we would be shut down. there's a million barrels a day riding the rails. you have to keep year financialer crossed that nothing happens. rayola, john, that's it for this evening's show. thanks for watching. we'll be back tomorrow. let's get this pipeline thing going. america needs power to grow. mom, dad told me that cheerios is good for your heart,

is that true? says here that cheerios has whole grain oats that can help remove some cholesterol, and that's heart healthy. ♪ [ dad ] jan? time to have new experiences with a familiar keyboard.

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