time. the dow down 68 right now. >> it's improved markedly the s&p is down about 3 points on the trading session. nasdaq down a little bit as well. >> see you in an hour on "closing bell." >> "street signs" begins right now. have great afternoon. it's getting real in d.c., but at least they're talking. the president asking leaders of both parties to meet tonight at 5:30. this as stocks show the markets are getting nervous. could an american debt default happen? we're going to ask bill gross manager of the biggest bond fund is here on why the market may be focusing on the wrong thing. plus the move three big microsoft shareholders want bill gates to make has some scratching their heads an we'll step outside most of our own realities for, you know, just a fun bit, little fun showing you majorly tricked out private planes. what's wrong with a little bit

of fun, mandy, on this super d.c. politics heavy wednesday? >> nothing wrong. a numbers game, 8 in 10, the dow and s&p are down for the eighth time in ten sessions and five for five, despite today's drop, the nasdaq is on track for its fifth straight winning week. take yourself back in time you might remember the nasdaq began the year with a six-week winning streak. it's leaving all the others in the dust. which nasdaq component to thank, net flik, micron, reagain ron and green mountain and not apple which is down year to date. straight down to the trading floor. bob pisani at the nyse, rick santelli at the cme. i was trying to avoid talking ate the shutdown but it's inescapable. why are the markets so manic depressive. yesterday you were talking about wild optimism, today seems as if it's pessimism. what's going on? >> a little more but maybe some hope later in the day here. two problems today.

put up the full screen. the first we had problems was poor adp report in the morning with dow revisions in august. the bigger problem was overnight there was talk about a two-week shutdown in the markets until they negotiated a deal. heavens, that is not priced into the stock market and that was the major reason to the downside going in. in the middle of the day, a couple of developments have lifted the markets off of the bottom. number one, we had the president saying late in the morning that he was going to meet with congressional leaders. stocks started lifting. and then in the afternoon, mr. reid, the senate majority leader, offered budget talks to john boehner, speaker of the house, for au lying us government to reopen. they're going to open the government. that's what the markets wanted, keep it open but make any deal you want. the dow, the markets since that have slowly been lifting up. there's the bottom and there we are, not far from the highs of the day. still down but up. >> still down but up, bit of a oxymoron. >> off the lows. >> thank you very much.

we understood. rick santelli, we're nerds at cnbc, we love stats and figures and a figure i found u.s. based bond mutual funds, $1.3 billion in the latest, the first inflow we've had since july. >> you know what, i think i even could have predicted that one. i would think maybe a song, it's raining money, the taper, that didn't materialize, without a doubt would coordinate with people thinking if they're going to continue to buy, maybe at these yields i'll buy some and the correction as you see the on screen, those are ten-year rates since the fed meeting. obviously the first several sessions took a big chunk out. >> the song is better if it's raining yen, rick. >> i like that. >> at least it rhymes. >> it is in tokyo. >> on the phone right now. yes. >> you like it, it's raining yen. thanks, rick. it is a huge day on cnbc. huge. we are less than two hours away from john harwood's exclusive

sit down with president obama. let's get a preview by going to the white house diplomatic room and john harwood in the chair. >> mandy, brian, i'm preparing to sit down with my exclusive interview with the president of the united states shortly. a lot going on at the white house as the shutdown enters its second day. the president has been meeting with bankers here at the white house to try to put pressure on members of congress to resolves this situation. eamon will have more on that later. part of his message is the shutdown is hurting the economy, but the debt ceiling, if it's breached, would hurt the economy even more. all that as the president is trying to roll out the affordable care act, his signature domestic achievement. we'll be talking about the president with all those things later today. you can see our interview at 4:00 p.m. on "closing bell." mandy, brian, back to you. >> we will. as john mentioned it's been a busy day for the president. earlier he met with wall street ceos at the white house. eamon javers following that story for us. >> hi, mandy.

it was financial titans here at the white house today. more than a dozen of wall street's top ceos arriving for the meeting with the president and met with the treasury secretary, jack lew. he emerged from the meeting at the white house and talked to cameras. it was lloyd blankfein of coldman sacks making the point wall street does not want to see a u.s. debt default. here's what lloyd blankfein lad to say. >> represent every point on the political spectrum, but the one thing they have in common is, you can lit gait these policy issues, you can relitigate these policy issues in a political forum, but they shouldn't use the threat of causing the u.s. to fail on its obligations to repay its debt as a cudgel. i had an opportunity to talk to jamie dimon of jpmorgan just in washington last week negotiating with the department of justice, potentially huge settlement for alleged misdeeds by jpmorgan, as

much as $11 billion as the figure out there. i asked was it awkward to be negotiating with the department of justice and then meeting with the president today. here's a little of that conversation. >> what do you make of this moment where you were here last week negotiating on a major stlts for jpmorgan and now here to talk to the president about a political matter? awkward timing? >> no. not for me. >> is it for the white house? >> i doubt it. >> he said it wasn't awkward for him, he didn't think it would be awkward for the white house. none the less see what a confluence of interest is going on here. jamie dimon has something else on his plate with the department of justice but right now he and the white house agree on the idea that united states should not default on their debt and that's the message they want to send from here, brian. >> all right. eamon, thank you very much. so, what are the key issues president obama should address during his interview with john? well let us ask diana, senior fellow at the manhattan insti tu and jared, senior fellow at the center of budget and policy

priori priorities. diana you're in the room, president one on one, what would you ask him? >> why he isn't meeting daily with leaders to try to resolve this crisis. today he announced had he's going to speak with harry reid and boehner at the white house but he should be doing this every day until the crisis is resolved. i would ask him while he doesn't repeal the medical device tax, the 2.3% tax which is part of obama care, but which the majority of republicans and democrats on the hill say is impeding the growth of the industry and resulting in jobs going overseas. just yesterday, merck announced that it was laying off another 8,500 on top of the people they laid off before. >> what do you think his answer would be, diana? >> do i think -- i didn't catch that? >> what do you think his answer would be? what do you think he would come back at you with? >> i'm not the president. i really don't know. but i think he should take a

tone not demonizing the opponents. he's the leader of all the american people. he should operate in a neutral manner and should be agreeable to compromise because there's three branches of government and he only has one of them. >> what about you, what would you ask the president? >> first of all, let me stay, i'm very glad that john is going to be talking to him later. i will be listening carefully for precisely this kind of conversation. i was glad to hear that in diana's list and i think she comes at this from a more conservative place, she did not say repealing the affordable care act should be on the list. i think that's key. i think that any negotiation that's going to go anywhere has to do two things. first it has to end the shutdown and first there has to be a solid agreement not to negotiate on the debt ceiling as you heard lloyd blankfein say earlier. then what the president should do, again, agreeing with diana, is to talk about resolution. you say once this disaster is behind us, self-inflicted wounds to an economy and market that frankly doesn't need it, once that's behind us here are the

kinds of compromises that both sides need to make to have a longer term budget agreement, to really lift the debt ceiling, so that we don't have to be back here in a week or two. >> i'm going to read you something. the rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy robbing our cities of critical investments like bridges, et cetera, seniors the health security they have accounted on. that was senator barack obama in 2006 why he voted not to increase the debt ceiling when we were at, quote, only $9 trillion. not above $14 trillion and saying it should be a no-brainer. i'm trying to square the two. >> it's a perfectly fair question and that was a bad vote. and i actually believe that the president himself has agreed that was a bad vote. any tiny scrap of defense there, the -- a breach of the debt ceiling was never under consideration there. that was the senator saying go ahead, senators, vote against this if you want. it was a bad vote.

here, on the substantive point you've made the deficit has fallen by more than half. it was 10% of gdp. now it's 3 or 4% of gdp. we've been moving in the right direction in no small part because of $2.5 trillion over ten years in spending cuts and those tax increases at the top of the scale. we've been making some progress in that regard. >> diana, what do you think the president has to either lose or gain in political capital by budging, by compromising at this stage of the game? >> well, i think first of all he has to look like a large leader in the "wall street journal" last week, peggy noonan said he looked like a small leader. i mean he's just had a defeat regard syria, the middle east isn't going too well. he needs to show he can do domestic policy. another thing he might want to do in terms of the spirit of conciliation is delay the individual mandate for a year. he's already delayed the employer penalty for a yearp. he's delayed the income

verification and he can say all right, i'll let anyone who wants to sign up for obama care sign up. if you want to delay it for a year there won't be any penalties. doesn't seem fair to delay it for the employers and not to delay it for the individuals. >> all good points. thank you very much for joining us. by the way, folks, viewers, listeners, catch john harwood's interview with the president in less than two hours time right here on cnbc. also here on cnbc, is "street signs," three big headlines moving the market, one is fired up, one charged up, one fed up. >> the world's largest bond fund says who cares about the taper. we're focused on something much bigger. pimco runs that food. bill gross runs pimco here to explain why as well as why he hates crows. that's coming up next. e ocean g. the peruvian anchovy harvest suffers. it raises the price of fishmeal, cattle feed and beef.

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pimco pimco out with its latest investment outlook and a reason we are playing a song by the black crows. not because bill gross is hard to handle but because he has a thing about crows and wife hates bugs and thinks we're focusing too much on the taper and before we get into your crows and the timing of the taper i now must warn you we have our taper jaw on "street signs," every time you say the "t" word you owe a dollar. i'm putting four in. i will see you tomorrow in los angeles so bring some cash.

>> where's your mustache, brian. groucho and the magic duck coming down. >> take a while to grow it maybe for mo vem ber. why you believe the market may be focusing on the wrong "t" when it comes to the federal reserve? >> well, i think there's been significant focus on the taper, the lack of taper. >> two. >> how much we'll taper in the future. i think ultimately, you know, quantitative easing will disappe disappear. it's going to die. the fed can't continue to write checks at a trillion dollars a year for ever because of inflation or the consequences of a weaker dollar. but let's cast aside then quantitative easing and taper and suggest the policy rate, the policy rate is the key going forward. that's what janet yellen and ben bernanke and michael woodford at columbia at the jackson hole conference in 2012 suggested we should focus on and where the policy rate is in 2013, 2016,

2017 is what we should be focusing on. we in pimco think it's going to stay low for a long, long time. >> what exactly is a long, long time? when we talk about policy rates staying low, all kinds of questions that can be raised like exactly how long is it going to stay abnormally low, what would be the mutual rate for an economy that is highly leveraged and can't take too many rates that move higher? what are your answers to those. >> is. >> that is the key and the fed doesn't know either. they've set forward some quantitative objectives in terms of the unemployment rate and other measurements, inflation, targeting as well. we think unemployment if 6.5% is their target, an inflation at 2% plus is their target it will take until 2016 before we reach the point the fed the a levered economy as you point out will be comfortable in raising interest rates. we've seen over the past three or four months before the great month of september for bonds and for pimco, was that basically

when you raised a treasury rate to 3% on a mortgage rate to 4.5% that the economy and housing starts started to weaken. the policy rate is the key and it has to stay down to anchor other yields at low levels. >> but let's back up for a second. you think the policy rate is more important than talking about the timing of the taper, 1 s $1 for me. >> it has 45 already. >> bill is three bucks in. i'm going to see him tomorrow and collect. believe me. >> you collect. >> he's richer but i'm bigger. >> he has a big bucket. >> talk about the taper. to what degree do you feel that the current shutdown for however long it may be will push out the timing of any taper? >> well, you know, two aspects. one in terms of the continuing resolution, which is taking place now, you know, probably every week that we continue to shut the government down, mandy, it subtracts about 0.1% of

annual gdp rate. if it continues four weeks, let's suppose, gdp would be reduce half a percent for that quarter. that's not good. second of all, october 17th as we all know, it is the magic date at which the debt ceiling either is raised or not raised and ultimately while, you know, in our view the default, the possibility of default on the part of the u.s. treasury is a million to one and perhaps even in the billions, you know, the fact is, is that the uncertainty that it's caused going forward is not a positive for treasury rates. that may be one of the reasons why the fed stayed put, basically in terms of the taper. >> okay. >> another dollar, another five bucks, but also in terms of the policy rate going forward. >> so i want a clarification and question. to clarify, you believe that odds of a u.s. default on debt on october 17th or later is effectively zero, correct? >> i do. let me -- can i put math to it?

>> sure. >> you know, basically the u.s. treasury brings in terms of revenues about 18% of gdp a year and they pay out in terms of interest about 2% of gdp. that's a 9 to 1, you know, type of coverage. do they have other expenses? of course. is there a problem in late october in terms of, you know, a large coop on payment of course which what is some inverstors ae focusing on. basically every month the u.s. treasury is bringing in about $300 billion and paying out about 40 to 45. there's no possibility that the u.s. treasury, you know, would ever think of and would ever be in a position of defaulting based on that coverage. >> but you got to admit nothing about this congress or d.c. that would surprise you. i hope you're right. the question i have is this, john harwood would be sitting down with president obama in a couple hours. if you were john harwood, you had one question to the president, what would it be in. >> i would say how can you stimulate investment, mr.

president, you know, how can you bring the two sides of the aisle together, you know, to cause an investment in this economy, for it to go forward. investment has stood still for the last three, four, five years and in order to grow the economy, we need not to consume, but to invest. so anything that would take place in terms of investment, infrastructure, some type of tax advantage for corporations to, you know, to put their money to work, that's what i would ask him ins terms of how to do it. >> let's switch gears and move away from what's happening in washington and those various shenanigans. i want to ask about your total return fund. september was the fifth consecutive month we saw redemptions, 10% of total assets taken out since the beginning of the year, do you expect those redemptions to slow or reverse? >> it's reversing. as you pointed out about five minutes ago, flows are moving back into the bond market. at pimco, yes, the total return

fund for a few months suffered rather significant outflows, bond investors were losing confidence, bond investors were appreciating that bond prices can do down as well as up. september was a magical month. it's reversed in terms of our performance where it top percentile in terms of past few months and investors are coming back. pimco has been a great manager for 25 years and after looking for bonds that's the place. >> great september but this is one out of left field actually completely south of the border and equator, brazil, formerly the richest man, ogx petroleum, going to default at a billion in debt. lot of concern i'm hearing in the bond market this could lead to a major brazilian debt crisis. sounds obscure, brazil a huge player out there. what's your take on that? >> well, you know, i think it is a problem and i think, you know, if readers or your listeners

could read the recent edition of the economist which has a special section on brazil they would know that brazil has particular problems in terms of its infrastructure, too high, you know, payments for pensions and the like, and it's the not the -- it's not the paradise that investors thought two or three years ago and the future place of the world cup and olympics. they have problems and they have to resolve them and that's one indication this problem is having. >> one of the problems brazil is having. thank you very much. i will see you tomorrow in l.a. i'm going to collect the five bucks for the taper bar. >> don't hate the crows. they're smart and beautiful. >> and delicious. >> a group of microsoft investors calling on bill gates to step down. is it time for gates to go? >> flex, the three best ways to play europe right now. (vo) you are a business pro.

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stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet frrial. other government is shut do down, right? we might run out of other government is shut do down, right? we might run out of money as well in 14 days. our lawmakers cannot agree on a single thing. not looking like the most table sta place on earth. who is looking better these days, europe?

sure it's got stains, a little dented around the edges but without dysfunction. europe starting to look like the cleanest shirt in the global laundry bag. one of the best ways to play europe for the u.s. investor. our next guest thinks the three are your best bet. amazon, tech 2 and goldman sachs. let's bring in clem. let us start with amazon and why is this a good european play? >> basically amazon is wiping out a lot of retail in europe. they're absolutely tearing it up and well in europe. everybody's buying from amazon. it's as success in europe as in america. you're getting retail exposure, large with amazon. a glory stock in the u.s. easy to track, et cetera. you are getting strong retail and internet exposure. >> amazon not what i consider a

european company. is there any pure plays in europe as believe it or not like almost the italian political situation is looking better than us? lots of stocks, going into adr or directly buying european stock. >> we have a smart sophisticated viewership. >> i agree. italy is great. campari that's great company. i mean look at fear, fear is basically, you know, sales -- is worth twice as much as tesla in sales and twice as many cars. europe is full of value, credit agriculture, great bank if you like banking, deutsch, these are banks on very low earnings multiples and still out of fashion. orange, which is a big tellco, used to call telecom, french telecom. british telecom how that has rallied french telecom or orange hasn't done that at all. europe if you actually go to adr

or to directly purchasing is absolutely full of value. italy and france have basically not come back from the credit crash crunch. it's still down on or near lows from that period where if you look at the u.s. and you look at uk, they're kind of back to where they started from. there's a lot of value there. there's no point going to greece where it's obviously lots of knock down stocks because their index collapsed on their bank which is dead. there's not much to do there. germany has made a good bounce back. sorry. carry on. >> this is out of left field, gtav, grand theft auto v i believe made about a billion dollars or more in its first three days of launching. take two is the first you would play with gtav. >> as a u.s. stock yes. it's a huge title in europe. europeans are massive gamers and quite often in the u.s., u.s. investors look to the u.s. only and they forget about the other territories and europe is a massive gaming territory and this is a massive title there

and sustainable franchise and hasn't reacted to the fact that grand theft auto is a run away massive hit? >> goldman sachs. we have run out of time. clem, thank you for joining us today. >> thank you. >> all right. still ahead on the show, tesla gets a rare downgrade. who dares. we're talking numbers to see if tesla's wild stock surge can live up to the hype plus a shot of booze news. >> and we're also about 90 minutes away from the exclusive john harwood interview with the president. keep it locked into cnbc. "street signs" is back in two. [ bagpipes and drums playing over ] [ music transitions to rock ] make it happen with the all-new fidelity active trader pro.

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street street talk time. many stock stories you have to know about. owe sigh ris getting an upgrade at piper jaffray. very hot -- >> up 11%. company best known for stem cell regenerative therapy. targeted at 21, upgrade based on valuation. like the prospects. stock up 121% year to date. it's the egyptian god of the dead, lord of the underworld. been a very good name stock for

investors. >> auto desk moving higher on substantial acquisition news. >> two pieces of news. issued disappointing fourth quarter outlook but planned a deal to buy structural fabrication detailing -- did you get that? auto desk continues to evolve more into cloud and mobile, no financial terms have been disclosed but expected to close in the fourth quarter of the fiscal 2014 year. investors like that. the disappointing outlook not as disappointing as some had thought. >> pandora gaining steam in the world of streaming music. another greek kind of reference. >> that's a box too. yeah. fingers crossed here for pandora investors. good news, maybe no itunes radio impact. listener hours rose 18% from 1.15 billion. active listeners rose 25%. careful, though, it's still early. itunes ios 7 starting to roll

out. take it with a grain of salt. >> man power group getting an upgrade today. >> perhaps on what many are calling america's part-time economy. it's a staffing firm, from a buy by bank of america. the stock was above 71 so they had to raise it. this stock has doubled over the past 12 months. time now for our new special segment, talking numbers. we hit a stock from a fundamental and technical perspective every day today the story it's electric. talking about tesla, shares taking a tumble after robert w. beared downgraded the car maker to a neutral from an outperform, this as the company has not only conquered the u.s. market but racing to the top of the charts in norway believe it or not. but is this sell-off an opportunity for you to buy into tesla? let us begin talking numbers. on the technicals, jc, on the fundamentals, john, with first asset investment management. john, let's begin with you. tesla's valuation, about the

same as fiat. fiat sells about 100 times more cars. do you like tesla? >> absolutely not. you should lectry cute this stock from your port flol. you look at it it's crazy, trading at 305 times earnings. look on a market cap basis for the number of cars they sell it would work out to roughly 1.1 million versus bmw versus $28,500. valuation is terrible and ridiculo ridiculous. that's an environment where there's no competition. competition is coming. bmw bringing in an electric car next year. that will eat into their mar gyps. i think also you are looking at something that's really a cult fancy stock and i think there's only so many movie stars in california that will rush out and buy this. this business model is driven by tax and emission credits an it's going to fail. >> how do you really feel? >> i hate it. >> hate mail from the tesla fan

boys. jc, back out all that stuff and take a look at the charts, gone parabolic, what are the charts indicating about future direction? >> you have to stick with the momentum here. it's positive, it's strong and rising. you know would you buy here? that's a tough call. you could ask yourself that same question all the way back to january. always felt like you were buying these highs. it's tough to tell where it's going to go. tactically if i owned the stock already, i would implement trailing stops here. three main levels i'm watching. the first is a 20 day moving average around 175. after the stock gapds in april it respected the 20 day up. that's a critical level to watch especially on a pullback here. second level, the 50-day moving average that's roughly 14% below current price. 14% sounds like a lot but look how much the stock has risen. 14% will give you enough room in case the stock does get volatile you won't get stopped out prematurely. the level 165, 166 over the last

six months i believe this is a critical level where investors have gotten into the stock if the stock pulls back to this level, i think a lot of guys will be looking to get out of this name which will cause downward pressure. momentum higher, watch the three levels in case there's pullback. >> jc and john, thank you both very much. we are watching that. john, we hear you loud and clear and listening. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> catch more talking numbers on-line at cnbc.com/talking dash. >> why don't we stay with the theme. >> look at that promo. >> don't know who that is. air brushed out of your normal self. >> like kate moss in that fantastic. >> no eared person. >> weigh like 180 pounds in that picture. >> if there are listeners on the radio and can't see that picture, like brian sullivan who has been air brushed. >> like thinner younger brother who's orange and doesn't have ears. >> silicon valley is betting big on tesla and other electric cars. the city of palo alto adopted a

policy which will mandate all new homes to be wired with an electric car charging station. they're headquartered in palo alto and considering adding charging stations for commercial conlike hotels and shopping centers. >> a performance monster, hot stuff and finally getting it right. those are some of the reviews for the newest tablet to hit the market and we are actually not talking about the apple ipad. >> and we're also going to bring you a healthy heaping of food news. wash it down with a pair of boozy headlines what we love on "street signs." first bill griffeth what's happening on the "closing bell"? >> i'm back. stocks lower on fears the government shutdown could last a while. top money managers whether they're using this as a buying opportunity and just a reminder little over an hour away from john harwood's exclusive interview with president obama. they'll talk about everything from the budget and debt ceiling battle in washington to the

rollout of obama care and glitches that have accompanied it over the last couple of days. all the and more, michele caruso cabrera is with me. stay tuned. jackie: there are plenty of things i prefer to do on my own. but when it comes to investing, i just think it's better to work with someone. someone you feel you can really partner with. unfortunately, i've found that some brokerage firms don't always encourage that kind of relationship. that's why i stopped working at the old brokerage, and started working for charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today.

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first burger king whop esh holder and kfc is doing its part to eat and drive. the chain rolling out go cups which fit into cup holders filled with fries and different chicken tenders, hands free, seems to be the new thing, brian, in fast food. hands free. kfc claims 42% of americans would be more likely to eat in their cars if the feet container fit the cup holder. seriously. do we want that many people eating and driving. what's next? you can text, eat, drive, at the same time. kfc's parent company yum brands is down by about 1.5% but up about 6% year to date. nonetheless underperforming the broader market. >> too sad to comment on. this will get the twitters verse excited and worked up. social network ticking closer to an ipo. julia, we've heard about this

twitter ipo, when is it going to happen? >> well, brian, we expect twitter's public filing to come as early as thursday, tomorrow. sources are telling me yesterday a group of former twitter employees with shares in the company received a document from twitter and banker goldman sachs which they were asked to return by 8:00 p.m. eastern today. now this is one of twitter's final steps before filing its public documents. in addition to the size of twitter's ipo everyone will be digging into twitter's key growth statistics, revenue, profits, active user numbers and calculations in terms of what that means revenue per user. that will determine its valuation and appeal as a publicly traded stock. twitter hasn't revealed numbers yet but emarketer expects the company will report $288 million in revenue and hit 52 $82 million in revenue this year. there are sure to be comparison to facebook which in its most

recent earnings revealed revenue of about $2.17 per user. not just a question of how much money twitter makes. but also where that money comes from. while we anticipate twitter will report users all over the world, e-marketer expects about 10% of twitter's revenue to come from outside the u.s. last year and 15% this year. not just dollars and cents. twitter will discuss its risk factors, strategy, expected market size, along with largest shareholders and executive compensation. and then there's the fun stuff like twitter stock ticker, i'm betting it's going to be twtr. mandy. >> we're looking forward to it. thank you for the details. julia boar stein. >> it's 5:00 somewhere, in australia it's 5:00 somewhere all the time. first up, beer sales are firming up again. the industry reversing last year's downward trend that's according to a new report by tech nommic. sales were over 6.

kraft beer is the big driver up about 14% making up more than 6% of total beer volume. another big beer winner retro hipster brands like pabst blue ribbon, the stock if you want to know have had a nice run over the past year and anheuser bush, molton coors, and check out boston beer it has more than doubled. turning to wine. new study says how you pour the vino will affect how much you drink. when glasses are wider participants poured nearly 12% more wine into their glass and 12% more if you were holding the glass versus sitting it down on a table and researchers found people poured 9% more white wine compared to red. the study done by the journal of substance use and misuse. >> coming up, a big board battle at microsoft with some saying it's time for bill gates to go. should he? >> flyinglyin in style and what

means to the super rich. i want you to think custom carpets, fitted recliners, on board movie theaters, champagne wishes caviar dreams and bathtub filled with euro coins. those are jets, folks. when "street signs" returns.

hot stuff. not just me. they finally got it -- i said it. >> he said it. >> finally got it right. >> you believe it. >> i know. dr. spock. inside joke. those are two of the reviews for amazon's kindle fire tablet. it is getting some really glowing reviews. "time" magazine, "usa today" applauding the mayday feature customer service via live video screen. "fortune" says it's a serious competition for the ipad mini and sells for $229 to start. it will go on sale beginning october 18th. time will tell if sales live up to reviews. they don't always. amazon stock up another 27% year to date, the ipad may have a real challenge. >> i have got over my privacy concerns and like the mayday function. dell is trying to get a piece of the tablet market

rolling out several new devices today. seema mody has your first look. dell seems a little late to the game, doesn't it? >> yeah. it absolutely does. this is the game they're trying to play in. pc sales are slumping an as as consumers are shifting to tablet space, dell unveiling four new tablets trying to play catch-up the venue 7 and venue 8 pro starting at $299, windows 8.1 operating system. dell also updated two books to have the power of a desktop and portability of a tablet. it's no secret dell is late to the game. when i spoke to vice president of dell, he acknowledged this would be a tough road ahead but that dell is aggressively focused on targeting the tablet space. keep in mind, dell has about a 0.2% of the tablet market right now so they clearly have to put this in focus to gain more market share.

>> seema mody, thanks very much. meantime, reuters reports says three of microsoft's biggest 20 investors are calling for bill gates to step down as chairman of the board. let us bring in ubs brent phil, lance. brent and lance, thank you very much. brent, as an analyst, do you think bill gates should step down? does it matter at all for the equity? they claim gates is holding down innovation as being this overarching force. >> i want bill gates on my team. he created the company back in '75. he's been an instrumental force in driving the story. he's on the board. he's not making everyday decisions but he's there as an adviser. you can't think of anyone else with his experience you would want on your team. from a perspective of, yes, should he have a lesser role given his position and his focus on fiphilanthropy, yes. should he be kicked off the

board? i wouldn't if i was on the board. >> i to want know, who are these three investors? the names have not been put out there. why would they want to be so anonymous. lance, do you have any idea who the three are and do they actually have the ears of the board enough to have sway over their decision making? >> i really -- have i no idea who these guys are. but they have serious concerns. i mean, microsoft has struggled in a number of key places like mobile phones and tablets. it's trying to make a play. it's doing innovative things. this is a signal. what they're doing, it's ridiculous. bill gates does not involve day to day -- yes, he has influence on the board. he cares about the company deeply. but i think they're trying to show how important it is for microsoft to make a significant change when they bring on a new ceo. so, this is kind of like -- that's why you don't know their names. they're rattling their sabres saying, pay attention because we're going to make a lot of noise if you don't bring in somebody to shake things up. this has very little to do with

bill gates because in a sense he has very little to do day to day with microsoft. >> i guess, i can kind of see the point. i hear your point, gates created all this wealth. stock was up like 61,000% or something over gates' tenure. some incredible number. at the same time, it's like he's so powerful. off doing his great work with his foundation with his wife, but it's like he's still there as chairman of the board. why not clean house, start new and remove the vestiges of the old microsoft? >> i think it's like a football coach. you know, he's been through the trenches. he understands -- >> but when a head coach gets fired, generally the staff goes with him. >> remember, microsoft thrived under bill gates. it has not thrived at the same level as steve ballmer. when you look at this daisht other commenter made a good point. bill's not showing up every single day. he's as an adviser. there are smart people in tech, like ceo of sales force. he thinks bill is the only one to turn it around. if you listen to other tech

veterans, they're saying he should be involved in some form or fashion. i believe he should be part of the board. >> can i ask you, brent, you have a buy rating on this. you cut it down to 40 bucks and now target at 37. what made you cut it down? >> stock's up 20% year to date. there are very few microsoft bulls left. i think it's the right call, number one. number, two the move to the cloud dents the reported revenue. what happens is the backlog grows. so, if you look at double-digit unearned revenue growth, that's a signal of their enterprise business. i think it's important. 60 plus percent of microsoft's business is enterprise. every day we talk about, you know, this is a consumer player, this is a windows play. it's an enterprise play. that's highly recurring. i think that's why you've seen large activists get involved in the stock. they see value and why the stock is up. >> some agitation. lance, quickly? >> if bill gates is holding things back then ballmer

wouldn't have been able to put through the massive reorg that is sdil going to happen. bill gates is not the problem. microsoft has to catch up. >> tough when you co-founded a company 38 years ago. thank you. coming up next, tricked out private jets. in a world that's changing faster than ever, we believe outshining the competition tomorrow requires challenging your business inside and out today. at cognizant, we help forward-looking companies run better and run different - to give your customers every reason to keep looking for you. so if you're ready to see opportunities and see them through, we say: let's get to work. because the future belongs to those who challenge the present. i worked a patrol unit for 17 years in the city of baltimore. when i first started experiencing the pain, it's, it's hard to describe because you have a numbness... but yet you have the pain

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so you want to drive moreent safely? of smart. nerve pain. stop eating. take deep breaths. avoid bad weather. [ whispers ] get eight hours. ♪ [ shouts over music ] turn it down! and, of course, talk to farmers. hi. hi. ♪ we are farmers bum - pa - dum, bum - bum - bum - bum ♪ ♪ there'll be the usual presentations on research. and development. some new members of the team will be introduced. the chairman emeritus will distribute his usual wisdom. and you? well, you're the chief life officer. you just need the right professional to help you take charge. ♪ here's a big perk of being super rich. not only can you own a private jet. can you also trick it out.

robert frank, you have all the best gigs. >> a private jet is not the best unless you can do the interior, sushi prep station, monogrammed seats. we find out about the most unusual requests. >> we had one client from the middle east that wanted a semiprecious stone called malachite, a green stone with beautiful character. we fabricated 48 pieces and inlaid them into the conference table like fine jewelry. >> eric was telling me about one client who wanted the perfect armrest for his private helicopter. eric couldn't find one but he found one in his own car so he tore the armrest out of his brand new mercedes and had one not just like it. >> the armrest was about $15,000 when we were done with engineering and certification. it was an expensive armrest but that's the price you pay for comfort. we had a client that liked to go hunting out in wyoming. would take his hunting dogs.

he wanted a custom kennel for his hunting dogs he could strap into the aircraft so that the dogs wouldn't get tossed around in turbulence. that was kind of a unique event for us. >> so, his hunting dogs had their own special area of the private jet? >> special area, padded with their names em broirded into the doors. >> have you ever had to say no? >> we try not to say no. we sit back and kind of they' theoryize how we can make it happen. one time a client with a boeing aircraft said, i want a jacuzzi aboard the aircraft. we had to say no. >> said no to the jacuzzi? >> tonight you'll see an entire one get redone. $2 million. the most outlandish on a private jet is alligator skinned toilet seat. there it is. $8,000 for a toilet seat on a private jet. >> i'm sure they feel good

losing their lives for that particular purpose. we can catch the all new "secret lives of the super rich" tonight right here on cnbc. >> important here, seriously, we're about an hour away from john harwood's exclusive interview with the president. it will air on "closing bell" which begins right now. yes, we do welcome you to "closing bell" where we're just one hour from the time you'll see john harwood's exclusive interview with president obama on the ongoing government shutdown and looming debt limit deadline. i'm bill griffeth. >> i'm i'm michelle caruso-cabrera in for maria bartiromo. the stocks are down on fears this will not end soon and private sector report. dow jones industrial average lower by 92 points. nasdaq is lower by 9.