>> i'm sure they feel good losing their lives for that particular purpose. we can catch the all new "secret lives of the super rich" tonight right here on cnbc. >> important here, seriously, we're about an hour away from john harwood's exclusive interview with the president. it will air on "closing bell" which begins right now. yes, we do welcome you to "closing bell" where we're just one hour from the time you'll see john harwood's exclusive interview with president obama on the ongoing government shutdown and looming debt limit deadline. i'm bill griffeth. >> i'm i'm michelle caruso-cabrera in for maria bartiromo. the stocks are down on fears this will not end soon and private sector report. dow jones industrial average lower by 92 points. nasdaq is lower by 9.

the s&p is down roughly 6 as well. bob pisani, all the d.c. dysfunction going on, what is the mood on the floor? >> the mood is hope. ly optimistic. we have two problems there. one was a crummy adp jobs report, including an august downward revision. the real problem was talk of a two-week shutdown overnight? that is not priced into the stock market. this morning a couple things happened. the president announced he would meet with congressional leaders. late morning, early afternoon, harry reid, senate majority leader came out and talked budget talks to john boehner, the speaker, to allow the government to reopen. that's what the market wants, government reopen and budget cuts is something everybody can sit down and negotiate on. that's why we've lifted off the bottom. dow still two to three deing on advancing stocks. i want to show you the vix here.

the fear is still not there. what is fear, people ask me? vix goes over 20, that gets my attention. sitting here at 15, 16, that's not a high fear level at all. defense stocks weak today. these would definitely be affected by a prolonged shutdown. lockheed and alliant. budget cuts, everyone can agree on, but a real quagmire, keystone pipeline, what kind of budget talks? >> they threw in the whole kitchen sink. >> that's right. >> day two of the government shutdown. markets are back in the red after yesterday's gains. joining us to talk about the shutdown's impact on the market is richard bernstein, michael farr, and larry glazer from mayflower advisers and our own rick santelli. gentlemen, good to have you here. michael, let me start with you.

how worried are you about the government shutdown and its impact on the stock market and the bond market? >> i think i'm more worried than the markets right now. the markets seem to have this attitude this is all going to pass and be reconciled and blow away. all evidence to the contrary. 2011 i was dead wrong. i thought sure they wouldn't let the u.s. debt be downgraded and they just whistled right along, following their political agendas and kind of the united states be damned. >> you know what, do you remember what happened? >> the political agaendas -- >> there's a reason they can get away with that. remember what happened when they downgraded u.s. debt? investors rnd the world gobbled it up. yields fell. >> it doesn't make any sense that yields would fall. >> it absolutely does because nobody cares what s&p thinks. what matters is whether people are willing to buy it. that's it. >> what matters is if the fed is willing to buy it, and they've been buying at 85 billion a month. >> is that what's happening, rick santelli?

really the biggest response we've seen has been on the short end of the yield curve right now. you haven't seen a whole lot on the long end. stocks aren't doing a whole lot. gold is volatile. what do you make of the market response overall as we finish up day two of the shutdown? >> you know, in treasuries -- you're right. the five-year may be a little more pronounced. just consider, this is going to be the seventh day in a row that a ten-year will settle between 2.61 and 2.65. >> exactly. >> i think the issue with the treasuries is really more about the biggest buyer in the world not going on hiatus, the federal reserve, in terms of what's going on in washington. this is all nasty stuff. in the en, in the end, they could do all these short-term, oh, i escaped another bullet all day long. there are some bigger issues to deal down the road. honestly, our entire panel, if boehner walks in and announces, i'll sign a clean c.r. if you

come to the table to announce entitlement and spending cuts, do you think any of that materializes really? i would like to know what they think? >> rich, does that happen? from my point of view it's immaterial. the question is whether the market would accept that. in the short term, a clean c.r., i think the market would rally on that news. >> so the market's the most important thing to you? i don't know. i think my kids are more important than the market personally. >> that's whatnot i'm saying, rick. what i'm saying is what would happen -- >> rick, let me -- >> it's not a question of should is rally, is would it rally? this market is clearly -- this market is so sensitive to the news and to the data. friday we're not going to have a jobs report. how sensitive -- >> big deal! adp tracks it. there's more -- >> gentlemen, gentlemen. >> there's more -- >> you -- >> larry, you didn't even let rich finish his sentence there. come on. relax.

>> suddenly a hockey game broke out. >> i know. >> all i was going to say is that people have clearly forgotten -- you know, two weeks ago it was all monetary policy. now fiscal policy. people forget there's both. one of the reasons that bob is seeing the vix so low is the number one factor that affects the vix is liquidity. the fed has basically told everybody there's going to be a lot of liquidity. we know that. i don't think that -- yes, this is bad. and the longer it drags out, it can get quite bad. i mean, by the reports we've been reading that every week we'll knock off about 0.1% to 0.2% gdp per week. as this goes out in time, yes, we'll see serious effects on the economy. >> having said that, larry, he asks calmly, would you be buying this dip in the market right now? >> i think just the threat of a default is enough to affect consumer confidence and business

confidence. it's enough to affect them making a capital egypt decision, enough to affect gtp and enough to affect the stock market. we're in the midst of this. we need to let it run its course. in a slow growth environment you can't take chances and chase risks. that's what's happening in this environment. investors are woefully unprepared for a prolonged shutdown. the emerging markets, greece, spain, that's where you want to be if you think you're going to get a correction. >> how could the market be unprepared? this for the last five years is a recurring nightmare. >> but we haven't done anything -- >> where's the panic in the market? >> michael farr. >> the government hasn't done anything in recent years without a crisis. without some kind of panic. i don't think we're going to do it this time either, so i agree with rich. i think that this market has further to go, and i don't think there's jerks on capitol hill are going to get the message

until they have a cries. i think it's going to be market-driven. >> i think you're making rick santelli's point. they keep doing it over and over and over again and we're still here. >> i know, i know. >> oh, my god, did i say that? >> rich bernstein, are you going to -- >> i'm nervous. >> you've been super bull throughout this whole period. >> i still am. i think we're in the one of the biggest bull markets of our careers. if i buy this today, i'll be honest and say i'm the world's worst short-term trader. i'm not the person you want to ask that question to. i think what's important and what i think people in washington need to understand is that the underlying economy was continuing to strengthen. morgan stanley is out with a note. morgan stanley is not exactly a liberal think tank. morgan stanley is out with a note that talks about the trajectory of the u.s. economy and how it's actually getting stronger. that can all be ruined by what's going on in washington here. >> but this interview at 4:00

with harwood and the president is hugely important. the president is going to set the tone, i think. >> what do you to want hear from the president? >> i want to hear the same thing i've been wanting to hear from this president for a while, or members of congress, is leadership. i want to hear a direction. i want to hear something. i want to hear the man say, this is where we need to go and i want to you follow me and this is why. i keep waiting. >> amen. >> total surrender. >> and scolding. you'll get scolding, too. >> i want to hear him make a deal. >> do something. get us away from brinksmanship in order to make policy they can't seem to make without these crisis and deadlines. you were elected to lead. please do it and let us go back to the job of making america great. >> thank you, guys. that was not a hockey game. that was a pta meeting. >> town hall meeting right there. >> there you go. see you later. >> oh, bill. and there's still 51 minutes

before the "closing bell." dow jones industrial average is lower by 88 points and nasdaq is lower by nearly 10. >> it bears repeating, coming up in less than an hour, our own john harwood talks exclusively with president obama. they will talk everything from the shutdown to debt limit to next federal reserve chairman all coming up. >> with the shutdown in effect, there will be no jobs report on friday. coming up next, steve liesman tells us what the only jobs number we'll see for a while says about the state of the economy. the pursuit of a better life for our children is something we all share. but who can help prepare them for the opportunities ahead? who can show them how to build on your success,

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the best current measure of job growth in the u.s. because there's not going to be another count, at least not this week, at least not while the government is shut down. here's the data everybody's talking about. it is what there is to talk about. 166k, under estimate, august revised down to 159. goods up, not too badly. services up a lot more. nonfarm payroll estimate, if there was a nonfarm payroll, 181 is the number. i want to show you detail of how we got to that 166 number. trade and transport. construction, manufacturing, trade and transport. 74 on small is an important number. overall, adp data not a bad proxy. adp does get the broader trend of which way is the market strengthening or weakening, gets that about right. one is government data, jobless

claims tomorrow and look closely at ism service sector which has a jobs component as we increasingly rely on private sector data to take the place of government data. >> maybe the fed was correct to delay tapering. >> i think bernanke is looking smart right now. it would have been bad with tapering. >> let's bring in bob pisani on how investors are dealing with vacuum there in response. >> there was a very sharp response to the adp report as soon as it came out. normally you'll get moves in the adp but not a sharp response. in the market we loss six, seven points in the s&p futures immediately. i think that a large part of that overreaction is due to the fact that just as steve said, we won't have any other data. a lot of this impact -- i think the impact of the adp was much

greater today on the numbers than if we had had the jobs report on friday. >> you know what's funny -- >> i don't see humor. >> -- that we've talked so often about the government jobs report we don't think is the best measure nor does the market ever trade what it actually turned out to be because of all the revisions that come later, right? when we get the real truth, the market doesn't trade it. it only trades the immediate. is adp in theory more accurate? >> no, it's not more accurate. it's one of the best of the private sector series we have. ism is another one. in general, i did some reporting on this, they like the government data. you can maybe appreciate the economic reason for it is that there's no incentive in the private sector to provide a public goods such as data is. >> only if you could trade on it before everybody else. >> exactly. and provide it in a way that the government, in an equitable way the government provides it. there may be cool data out there, we just don't know it

because it's only being bought and seen by a few. >> meantime, private economists that work for big companies that can do their own calculating. >> and do. >> they don't need the government to tell them what job growth might be -- >> not as a company, but as a whole, bill. not to get too technical but the issue is sample design, calculating. also i understand the government in some cases has the forces of law when it asks somebody to fill out a survey, that private sec store folks don't have. i will tell you a debate right now, maybe bob is interested in this, memos going around among economists, what happens if the government shutdown goes into the 12th, the survey date people fill out the forms, does that mean there wouldn't be an october report as well? >> now you could have an influence on the federal reserve and going into the federal reserve meeting at this point. and what are they going to do at this point? >> they're already getting stuff wrong. now you're talking about -- whatever the next step is from flying blind.

>> i know. it's an issue. aren't you a little more optimistic? when reid starts talking today about, okay, let's talk about budget, that's a different conversation than saying, okay, we want obama care eliminated. once you have budget cuts, everybody can make a deal on budget cuts. isn't there a reason to be a little more optimistic? >> if it moves from that -- my read of the administration, bob, when they talk about budget finance debt deals, that's a place they can talk but they won't be talking about health care. i don't know that there's an incentive on the other side to compromise here. >> guys, thank you. we'll keep an eye on what we can, what information we do have as we go forward. steve liesman and bob pisani. 40 minutes left to the close. dow near the low end of the range right now. down 84 points on the industrial average. >> up next we're talking to house republican' chief deputy what he and his party to want hear from the president to get things moving on capitol hill. that and much more coming up on the "closing bell." >> also, john harwood has

interviewed president obama several times, as we know, but perhaps none more famous than this. remember this? we don't have that. thank you for telling me. john harwood with president obama, again, coming up exclusively on cnbc at the top of the hour. don't miss that. [ male announcer ] legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses.

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chance he'll compromise with republicans. bill? >> new york state attorney general eric snyderman is taking aim at wells fargo for allegedly violating a multimillion dollar settlement. kayla has been following this. he's been aggressive. >> yes. a lot of information coming out today. wells fargo was among five banks that inked a multistate settlement to work with borro r borrowe borrowers. in a lawsuit today, attorney general announced wells fargo hasn't helped up its end of the bargain. >> wells fargo has been, if not the, certainly one of the most difficult banks all across america in dealing with homeowners. they claim that they are working to make things clear. >> wells fargo says it has implemented customer feedback. schneiderman said the bank is making customers jump through unnecessary hoops to get fixes

to their problems. unlike bank of america, wells didn't agree to make certain changes to those practices, so he'll file a lawsuit, he says, as soon as d.c. is open for business. d.c. was open today for the banks. executives of top tier financial firms met at the white house to discuss processes of dealing with the stalemate. jpmorgan a multibillion dollar settlement is on ice as federal workers are out of work. back to you. >> thank you very much, kayla. >> let's break down these developments and how they could affect the banking sector. matt mccormick and andrew stoltman. thank you for joining us. matt, why do you think wells fargo is at fault in this case? >> i think wells fargo is at fault for three reasons. first, the biggest loan originator, a mortgage machine. it's natural they'll have the

most complaints. second it appears they have not lived up on their end of the agreed bargain and they'll get penalized. third and most importantly, wells fargo is not understand banks are no longer allowed to negotiate with the government in good faith. they're only supposed to pay fines, they're supposed to smile and say, thank you, sir, may i have another, and move on like kevin bay con in "animal house." it's not good business to make the government upset. when you look at jpmorgan, there could be a lot more fines, negative pr and affect the share price. wells fargo is down. >> andrew, you're going to pile on, i know that. i don't even have to ask the question. go ahead. >> well, you know, the arrogance of the bank, especially wells fargo s stunning. the bank got icaught with its hand in the cookie jar, agreed to a deal and serial violator of that deal with 210 separate

violations of that deal. >> what are they guilting of violating? what did they do? >> 210 servicing standards with respect to servicing these loans and doing what you're supposed to do with these loan modifications. they were given a second chance by the regulators after the $25 billion settlement and they're still not adhering to the deal. it's absolutely incredible to me. >> they're supposed to respond within 30 dashgsz a single person point of contact, et cetera, et cetera, process to make the situation much more simple. i want to talk to the analyst here. i mean, the way you said it, thank you, sir, may i have another. that's what it's come down to, right? you've got toe a admit it's a pretty rotten place to be where you're suck coupcumbing to the government. >> let me ask, is it arrogance or bureaucratic nightmare to comply with the amount of thinks

they have to comply with. >> or schneiderman being -- >> they have to -- they have to play along with the game. look at bac, it's up 150% since january of -- >> yeah, wells fargo is a tank completely. you haven't had the problems with wells fargo -- >> yeah, but bac is getting along. their stock price subpoena. you don't see any news. they're not getting fined. look what happened with jamie dimon. he put his nose in it with dodd/frank. >> that's the most ridiculous things i've ever heard. >> he's exactly right. >> what happened in 2008, because banks almost melted down -- >> jpmorgan gets a call says, would you bail out this bank? he says yes. would you bail out this bank? he says yes. and what does he get? he gets his nose rubbed in it. he's paying for all these other banks he did everybody a favor

for -- >> then don't settle! nobody is forcing -- >> but my point to you, you think it's ridiculous that you don't think the government is, like, being a task master to the banks? of course they are. >> absolutely not. the banks are in the situation because of what they did in 20 1k308 continuing to do and they'll keep on getting hit on the wrist and keep doing what they want because they're the banks. until somebody's criminally charged, nothing's going to change. >> we're talking wells fargo. jpmorgan had to buy bear stearns and the rest of that. b of a chose to buy countrywide. i'm sure they regret that at this point. wells fargo has been growing to make more mortgages out there. >> oh, come on. >> you just wonder if the bureaucratic nightmare is such there's no way they can comply with the regulations they face right now. >> the banks aren't fewer pure. they have to play along. if you want your stock prices to go up, you have to play -- >> please, come on. that's just -- that's coming directly from the press release

playbook from these banks. they're in this mess because they got themselves in it. you take a look at other firms -- jpmorgan -- >> you know who -- >> fannie and freddie? you don't think the government helped with them this? you don't think they encouraged people to get loans -- you're a purist, but -- >> a major, major -- a major -- >> the person with the best press release playbook is schneiderman. he has them coming out every single day. this guy is eliot spitzer on steroids. he wants his job. that's what this story is. >> that's unfair. he's doing a great job with limited resources and a limited budget. he should be applauded. we should give him a standing ovation right now. >> you're saying -- >> i'm not moving. >> you're saying wells fargo would just -- knowing they have the scrutiny of the federal government and various state ags out there, they're going to eskew all of that and do whatever they want to do? you think they're that dumb?

>> yes. because they got away with it all the way through 2008, still getting away with it today and no reason they should fear the regulators. this is a cost of them doing the business. they write out a check, regulators scurry away. the next year same regulators are there, suing them, and join the legal department. it's an insane revolving door. great for the banks. a cost of doing business. >> i would agree, it's a cost of doing business. that's why wells fargo will eventually pay the fine, move on, because their shareholders will demand it as well as the government. >> fight it. don't write the check. they won't do that, because they know their hand's been caught in the cookie jar. >> andrew, are you so dependable. that's what we like about you. >> see you both again. thanks for joining us. >> heading toward the close, 30 minutes to go here. let's see what the dow is doing. i don't have the big board in front of me like you do at the new york stock exchange. we're still near the lows of the day. dow down about 140 plus but down 87 points.

a pretty big pull back here, michelle. >> what does the gop to want hear from sflb we'll speak to congressman peter next. >> john harwood has interviewed president obama several times, perhaps none more famous than this. do you remember this? >> hey. >> get out of here. >> that's most persistent fly i've ever seen. >> nice. >> now, where were we? >> quick on the draw. >> i forgot about that. >> that was great stuff. john back with the president again, coming up exclusively here on cnbc at the top of the hour. do not miss that. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. a day men's 50+.

who are now who are now less than a half an hour away from john harwood's exclusive interview with president obama. find out if he sees any end in sight to the government shutdown and the risk of breaching the nation's debt ceiling. what do republicans want to hear from president obama when he talks to john harwood? >> joining us is representative peter roskam, republican from illinois, happens to be the house chief deputy whip. you and president served as illinois state ledgislators at

the same time. thank you for joining us. what would you on the gop like to hear the president saying at this point on day two of the shutdown? >> i think it would be incredibly helpful if the president said, look, of course i'm willing to negotiate because leaders in crisis negotiate. so maybe the fact that he's called for this meeting is a suggestion that there's going to be something more than an admonition and willingness to negotiate. >> negotiate on what? he doesn't want to talk about the debt ceiling. he thinks that's irrelevant to the discussion about the budget at this point. he thinks obama care is irrelevant to the discussion at this point. what do you want to see him negotiate on it? >> well, what i'd like to see him acknowledge is obama care costs $1.9 trillion over ten years. so, of course it is related to the debt ceiling. of course, it's related to the current spending conflicts. the other thing is, let's not lurch from one crisis to another. let's not solve this government shutdown mess only to be right back into the soup as it relates

to the debt ceiling. >> senator roskam, are you done with the obama care thing? i mean, are you going to keep bringing that up or is this over? are we really going to have budget talks now and not try to push him on obama care? >> here's what the house has done. the house has said, let's pass a continuing resolution. let's do two other things. let's make sure that members of congress are treated the same way as everybody else and that there's not a special class. let's also make sure that the business break that was afforded based on the president's delay of the employer mandate, that gets afforded to individuals as well. so fairness for all. although the way around. i mean, there's a certain irony that the very bill, that is obama care, that is supposed to be so terrific, is something that senate democrats are desperately trying to get out of on a personal level. we're just trying to say, treat everybody fairly. >> are you suggesting when john boehner goes in there, we're still going to be talking about getting a delay for one year? that's what they're going to ask the president for? >> a one-year delay of the individual mandated, absolutely.

look, that's the only thing that's in play. the president has not come back with another offer. harry reid hasn't convened the senate and done anything serious -- >> wait a minute. he made an offer today to john boehner saying that if you will pass a clean continuing resolution bill to re-open the government, then he will sit down and have serious budget discussions. does that resonate at all in the house? >> no, of course not. i mean, that means nothing. in other words -- >> you don't think he will? >> no, i don't think he will. in other words, he's suggesting, just keep it open and don't make any changes and just talk about future changes? >> isn't that how it's supposed to work, you keep the government open as you budget discussions? >> right. but you have budget discussions around these ideas to keep the government open. for example, the house has acted already to move and will be moving today to make sure the national institute of health is funded, to make sure veterans are funded, to make sure natural

parks are funded. all of those things in an effort to move forward to take drama out of this whole equation. importantly, to make sure that there's no special class that comes out of this. members of congress shouldn't be treated in a special way. they are under this current approach. and also, individuals shouldn't be more adverse under obama care than businesses are. >> sir, are you willing to carry this all the way to the debt ceiling? >> look, we're in it. i mean, we're in this. and the worst thing to do is to follow the example of my home state of illinois, which is a fiscal basket case because they haven't dealt with the underlying problems. you know the story of illinois. raise taxes, let the pensions run roughshod, higher than average unemployment, second per capita debt of -- >> we know all about it. >> that is exactly what happens with avoidance behavior in washington. it doesn't just have an impact on one state. it impacting the whole nation. we say we have to have it this. we have to have this now.

let's put entitlements on the table but let's not lurch from one crisis to another. >> you said congress should not get special treatment in this whole process. i assume you're talking about the fact you guys are still paid as the government is shutdown -- >> and their health care will be s subsidized and all their aides will get their health care subsigh diesed -- >> anticipating your question, i've already written a letter to the clerk saying, hold my paycheck. what we're fighting about now is this whole notion of this special subsidy for members of congress. for the life of me, i don't understand how a senate democrat with a straight face can say, we have a wonderful plan for your lives, america. we're just not willing to endure it ourselves. i think the whole notion there are two classes of people -- the class of people that get special treatment under obama care and then everybody else s something that's entirely unsustainable.

harry reid cannot live on that island. it's flooding and he has nowhere to go. he has to change. >> peter roskam, deputy whip in the house. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> the dow touching a three-week low at this hour. all this as the d.c. dysfunction continues. d dominic chu breaking it down with us. >> we're talking about online booking travel company priceline.com. it followed up yesterday's record close with another one today. helped along by positive comments from analysts at lazar. they think there's upside relative to company's prior guidance thanks to better hotel booking and europe trends. next up is blackberry. we saw an intraday spike after a dow report krechlt rberus and one other private investor have interest and the ceo is exploring a bid of his own.

blackberry getting a boost. phillips 66 trading higher thanks to a 25% boost in quarterly dividend. it's now 39 cents per share. we'll finish off with tesla. shares posted second straight losing day. baird cut from neutral to losing saying current valuations have flawless excuse of their plans. some say a fire in a car in washington. tesla put out a statement saying it collided with a large metallic object in the middle of the road. tesla responding to videos some people are seeing on the internet as we speak. back over to you. >> yeah. you can see it. thank you. we've got about 20 minutes before the closing bell. dow jones industrial average is lower by 82 points and s&p lower by roughly 4 points. >> president obama has not always had the best relationship with bank ceos, as we know. still some of wall street's

biggest names headed to the white house today. did the meeting have something to do with the budget and debt ceiling fights? that's coming up next. >> bill, you know who else is at the white house today? >> who would that be, michelle? >> john harwood is, bill. don't miss his exclusive one-on-one interview with president obama coming up at the top of the hour. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the new twin turbo xts from cadillac. 410 available horses. ♪ room for four. twice the fun. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] you're the boss of your life.

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>> reminder for those joining us, a little over 15 minutes to go before john harwood's exclusive interview of president obama. find out if he thinks congress can get its act together and reach a deal on budget and government shutdown. >> some of the biggest names on wall street meeting with the president today, hoping they can persuade republicans to reach a debt ceiling deal. eamon javers has the details. eamon? >> yeah, that's right. jamie dimon, lloyd blankfein and a host of ceos were at the quhous to hear a pitch to the united states and secretary of treasury, basically asking them to make the case in public that the white house wants to make as well, that is, the united states shouldn't come anywhere near defaulting on its debt on october 17th. the ceos were in there for just

about an hour's time. when they came out, lloyd bank fein of goldman sachs said he wanted to make a distinction between the government shutdown we've had over the past couple days and the seriousness of what a debt default would be in the middle of october. take a listen. >> there's precedent for government shutdown. there's no precedent for default. we're the most important economy in the world. we're the reserve currency of the world. payments have to go out to people. if money doesn't flow in, then money doesn't flow out. so, we really haven't seen this before. i'm not anxious to be a part of the process that witnesses it. >> guys, it was just an interesting moment here in the relationship between the white house and wall street, which has been so fraught over the past several years. you had jamie dimon here from jpmorgan, who's been negotiating an epic-sized settlement with the department of justice over alleged wrongdoing by jpmorgan. at same time he's here meeting with the president this week, talking about matters political. so, clearly a confluence of

interests here today, anyway, between wall street and this particular white house, guys. >> oh, yeah. the irony has caught us all. thank you, eamon. we'll hear from the president himself when john harwood sits down exclusively with him at the top of the hour. meantime we have news breaking on oracle. jon fortt with details. >> oracle responded to to chango win an orgation that purports to own oracle shares and is upset about larry ellison's pay package. in an s.e.c. filing oracle on behalf of oracle, they respond defending ellison's pay package as 1% of oracle's total returns and points out stock options which have fallen out of favor for executive compensation in silicon valley in favor of rsus, but stock options, larry ellison will only have value if the

stock goes up from here, even though valuation methods like black schill's make them look very valuable. bruce chisom, who could face a lot of shareholder anger over this, responding. >> thank you, jon, with that stock popping nine cents. it's not helping ellison's restricted shares either. heading toward the close, about 13 minutes left in the trading session with the dow down 92 points. heading lower into the close here. >> the stalemate in washington appears to be taking a toll on stocks today. up next, though, find out if this selloff is creating an attractive buying opportunity for investors. it's as simple as this.

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is president obama willing to concede any part of obama care in order to reach a deal on the budget and debt ceiling? find out when he speakings exclusively to john harwood. that's still to come here on the "closing bell." >> the stalemate in washington continues to take a toll on the markets, but what about the looming-d debt ceiling? >> yes, how are the markets going to react to that? so far we've had some volatility but nothing like we had in august of '11, the last time they were negotiating on the

debt ceiling. kevin a david kelley jones us. is that still to come? >> i think it might be still to come. last time around people assumed they sold because they didn't think a deal would be arrived at. eventually there was a deal. this is the -- washington has cried wolf a lot of times. i hope it's still crying wolf this time. >> kevin? >> i agree. i believe there's a potential for more volatility but when push comes to shove, there's a massive amount of heat about to come down on congress to reach some kind of a deal. >> where is it going to come from? >> i think it will come, number one, from the electorate. this is a nonwinning political stance. both sides recognize their base votes along party lines. nobody's going to win votes on this one. secondly, if it goes beyond that, it could come from the markets eventually, which is what david's talking about. >> it hasn't come from the markets yet. all this talk of armageddon,

debt default, you heard lloyd blankfein throw out the word default, it's still falling. >> the problem is economic problem. this is spreading uncertainty in an economy that doesn't need it. biggest tax levied by washington is uncertainty. >> would president obama say something that would move the markets? >> certainly. >> what would that be? >> i think anything that both sides say that suggests they get the urgency of this thing and decide to put differences aside and come to a short-term deal to get a resolution through, that would move markets upwards. >> will you be paying close attention to the interview with president obama? >> i would add to what david said. recognizing this is a procedural thing. this has nothing to do with the actual ability of the federal government to make good on its debts. >> i keep remining people of that but they keep forgetting. it's strange. >> the thing that's different this time compared to 2011, we were all -- the government still had its aaa rating. had never been downgraded and we were all wondering what in the

world would happen if they downgraded that debt rating, the full faith and credit of the united states. it got downgraded. nothing happened. so -- >> that's not true, bill. there was something that happened. >> you're right. yields went down. they bought a boat load of bonds after that, kevin. >> forget the yields. what actually happened is 2 got congress's attention. if you look at where the budget deficit is now, which is the thing that drove us there in the first place, those have been cut in half and investment spending in the private sector is picking up. something substantive did happen. >> the fear of a debt downgrade is not that evident this time around. >> but there's a difference between a downgrade and a default. people -- >> do you really think we'll default? >> we're not going to default. >> do you think jack lew is that bad we'll miss a payment on the debt treasury? come on. >> i don't think so but at the moment everyone is playing in a very childish way. the debt limit to me is dynamite. don't like it being there at all. the thing that would really push markets up is if they pushed a

bill through to eliminate the debt ceiling. it's unnecessary and getting in the way of sensible discussions about how to reform entitlements, reform taxes and -- >> it may be the only thing that gets us to talk about those things. it's the only thing that gets them to talk about the budget. that's it. >> it is a circular firing squad. >> would you buy here? is this the kind of a dip you'd buy here, kevin? >> yes. we're looking for opportunities in here. most of the data we look at is still suggesting of recovery. we expect to see stocks outperform bonds in the next 12 months. and we have been adding to positions here. and we're looking to add more on a pull back because ultimately we think this does get resolved. >> how about you? >> yeah, i think we're still positive. once we get past washington, in fact, a lot of things are looking more positive. if you look at global growth, the global manufacturing pmi that came out in the last day is at its highest level in two years. the global economy is growing,

the u.s. economy is growing. if we could get past this washington problem. >> europe looks calm, too. it's amazing. >> everything is turning more or less at the same time here. if we can just get past the politics. >> thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having us. >> when we come back, we'll have the closing countdown with this wednesday with the dow down 89 points. >> we're counting down until john harwood's exclusive interview with president obama on everything from the budget battle in d.c. to all the glitches from the rollout of the new obama care exchanges. you're watching cnbc, because we are first in business worldwide. vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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the dow is down 72 points. the nasdaq is lower by 4. the s&p 500 is down a little more than 2. we have two minutes before the closing bell. now time for the "closing countdown." back with us, peter from empire executions. good to have you here. >> great being here. >> what do we make. yesterday the market was up, today it's down. something one or the other tell us how the market feels about the shutdown? >> no, right now with the shutdown all you have to worry about is we have 14 days to get ready for the debt ceiling situation, which doesn't seem to ber to resolution. today was more about the adp

data. i never follow that anyway because it's a lagging indicator. >> don't you have to follow the adp because we're not getting the government's employment report, it looks like o friday? >> i'm just telling you f you're going to start following adp, which is a lagging indicator, that's a very dangerous thing to do. it's really not -- it's not up to date. and i think, you know, if you don't get the jobs data this week. it's not the worst thing in the world. it's not going to be earth shaking. there's nothing in those reports that's been earth shaking over the last nine months. >> we're awaiting the president's interview with john harwood's interview with president obama. what could he say or what would he say that you think could move the markets? >> well, if he says that he's willing to compromise, which i don't think he's going to -- >> on what? >> on everything. he said this morning, he wasn't compromising. i think, you know, if you don't have a president, like reagan compromised -- was a great compromiser. he got congress, he got tip o'neill, he got everyone to compromise to get things accomplished. what happens with the congressmen and senators, these guys, they're not woshging in

the best interest of this country. they're working in their own best interest and it's not helping anybody. i think this is where the president needs to take the lead. >> thanks, peter. jim cramer ringing the closing bell from the studio. >> great accomplishment in television. 2,000 episodes of "mad money," unbelievable. good for you, jim, and the great crew that works behind the scenes there at "mad money." >> booyah! >> we welcome you to the "closing bell." i'm bill griffeth at cnbc headquarters along with michelle caruso-cabrera at the new york stock exchange. we'll have the president's interview coming up. we'll get you caught up on the markets of the day. bob pisani is