a big stake in hallson. it is a canadian oil company. a lot of people say, i would rather have these american shale companies. i vastly prefer cimarex, because cimarex has that growth that we all crave. i like to say there's always a bull marke the president canceled his trip to asia. i assumed maybe he wants to have a conversation. i decided to stay here in washington this weekend. he knows what my phone number is. all he has to do is call. >> president john boehner -- sorry, speaker john boehner lays down his own red line on the budget. no clean bills on the budget or the debt limit increase. and he continues to wait for president obama to ring up the phone and negotiate. meanwhile, the shutdown of parks, museums and national monuments, but 80% of the go. is still operate, roughly 20% of

the government is nonessential. so here's a thought. if they're nonessential, why not make them permanently nonessential. shrink government, shrink spending. it would be bullish for the economy. all these stories and more coming up live on the "kudlow report" beginning right now. good evening. i'm larry kudlow. we're live here at 7:00 p.m. eastern at 4:00 p.m. pacific and our top story tonight, it's day seven of the federal government not so shutdown shutdown. shockingly president obama is still that the negotiating table, still refusing to sit down and compromise with republicans. take a listen. >> we won't negotiate under the threat of a prolonged shutdown up republicans get 100% of what they want. we're not going to yoesh kuwagi under the threat of economic

catastrophe that economists and ceos increasingly warned would result if congress chose to default on america's obligations. >> the president's message to republicans, do it my way and we can talk later. but john boehner fired right back this afternoon. >> the president's refusal to negotiate is hurting our economy and putting our country at risk. this morning a senior white house official said the president would rather default than to sit down and negotiate. really? >> i think that's incredible. in fact the president's refusal to negotiate puts him at odds with history since 1978, congress has raised the debt ceiling 53 times. just 26 of which were so-called clean debt limit increases or with no strings attached. but let's discuss this whole story. here now is howard dean and dick armey.

dick armey, welcome back. i want to ask you, speaker boehner is saying, no, no clean bill. strings should be attached. obama care strings, deficit spending strings and the like. is mr. boehner right? >> first of all, you have to understand that i think john boehner's talking about the whole question of the continuing resolution to fund the government. i don't think i hear the speaker talking about the debt limit. i think he made a fairly declarative statement on that. the president is linking the two together because he knows whether it be the continuing resolution or the debt ceiling, the republicans get the blame for anything perceived to go wrong. he's very happy in this configuration. he wants nothing settled. the whole world is talking about the mean nasty republicans. he's got a chance to put on a

pupg c punctuation on that and doesn't have to defend obama care which he's been afraid of that october 1 would come and he's been talking about obama care. luckily for help he doesn't have to talk about that big massive bell where bill where he failed the american people. he can talk about the nastiness of the republicans. no interest in resolving this situation. >> and howard dean, look, the republican caucus in the house to which president obama is constantly referring, they want something related to obama care. they're not going to get defunding. they won't get delay of all the obama care. they may get to talk about the individual mandate delay for one year, talking about perhaps the medical device tax cut, talking about congress not being exempt from obama care. they're talking about the possibility of tax reform, talking about mr. obama's pledge to improve the cost of living adjustments as an entitlement for social social security.

all these things are part of what i think is going to be a package, the continuing resolution and the at the tideb. isn't boehner right to put those policies on the table and talking to president about them? >> absolutely not. this is childish behavior. these are the people who ran up this debt. these are the very people these republicans who voted for the last cr and now they're saying we won't pay our bills unless you do what we want. i don't know anybody that can operate like that. if i operated like that and went and told the bank i wasn't going to pay my mortgage unless they did things i wanted, i'd be out of my house. >> but the debt has gone up $10 trillion under president obama. >> because we had a recession and bush cut taxes without cutting programs. >> blaming bush -- >> bush had a $7 trillion. obama raised it by $10 trillion. i don't really actually care so

much about putting the blame game on. what i'm saying is you have all these issues on the table. relating to obama care, relating to spending. relating to tax reform. why not have a schedule of tax reform. these are things that need to be discussed when you get these money bills going and president obama doesn't want to discuss it. it's about common sense. >> it is not true that he doesn't want to discuss it. but you won't hold up the nation and threaten economic catastrophe to get your way. what he said is i want clean bills. we'll pay our bill, pay our obligations. then let's sit down, have lots of negotiations. i'm glad republicans said they want to negotiate. they refused 18 conference committees on the budget so far. so i'm glad speaker boehner wants to sit down. but do not hold a gun to the head of the american people to get your way. >> i'll just say to howard bless your heart, you really believe the president said something

sincere when he said you give me what i want, then i'll sit down and discuss? remember, what, three years ago when he said he'd be happy to discuss tort reform in health care? he has not yet to this day spoken two words on the subject. he won't talk about this. once he gets what he wants, he'll walk away and go play golf or something. >> all right. i have to leave there. you guys are coming back. we'll continue the whole conversation. >> maybe he and mr. boehner can play together and that will help. >> much more work to do. the white house warns that the cup risks default if congress doesn't raise the debt ceiling by october 17th and it's resorting to economic scare tactics, they want to get their way by scaring people. take a listen to jack lew on the sunday talk shows. >> is the president ready to watch this country go in to default rather than negotiate with republicans? >> the president believes that

the responsible leaders of congress know the consequences. >> the 17th we run out of our ability to borrow. consequences are immediate and very bad. >> what democrats wopts tell you is this. congress already had the chance to act. this is important. they had a chance to pass the full faith and credit act sponsored by senator pat toomey and tom mcchin to being. that bill would have protected all treasury interests and principal payments. but democrats rejected it. here now is the bill's senate sponsor pennsylvania republican pat toomey. senator, welcome back. you put this thing up a couple years ago and president obama and the senate democrat s didn' want it. would you have taken the whole issue off the table. why were they against the passage of this that would have

secured no default? >> by the way, i reintroduced it in this congress. it is still available to the senate democrat and president obama to make it literally him possible to have a default on our debt. i'm not worried that the treasury is actually going to default on its debt. the ongoing tax revenue is about 12 times the amount of money we owe in debt service. but i thought it was important to make a clear statement to the savers across america that under no circumstances including failure to raise the debt ceiling would we ever tdefault n our debt and they rejected it precisely because the president and this democratic senate unfortunately want to scare the american people, want to create this uncertainty all in an effort to intimidate republicans into giving the president huge additional borrowing authority with no conditions so he can continue the borrowing and spending and huge deficits that he's been running up. i think it's terribly ir

responsible. >> did i just read a couple numbers from my friend carolyn baum. for the first 11 months of fiscal year 2013, income taxes rose about $225 billion per month. $1225 billion in higher income taxes. net interest can expense on the federal debt road by $36 billion. so 225 is revenue, 36 is interest expense. more than enough. therefore i do not understand why this charge, this scare mongering that they will default is even out there. the numbers aren't even close. they will pay the debt first. why doesn't the president reassure americans that they will get through this period and that might promote economic certainty and growth instead of badmouthing and scaring everybody, why doesn't he use numbers like this to say we'll be okay here. >> and that's the responsibility of the sitting president of the

united states certainly. frankly, it's the responsibility of the treasury secretary and the entire administration to provide that certainty, provide that stability that the markets look for. but look, the disingenuous nature of the scare tactics are laid bary e by the treasury is trading at high prices. the ten year debt issuance is trading at a yield of 2.62. the market knows we won't have this default and it's stroomly ir responsible to sow fear in the hearts of the people who might be financially less sophisticated. i think it's extremely irresponsible on the part of the president and what he ought to do is say, i get it, we need to come together and find a solution for the fundamental

overspending. the fact we are not on a sustainable fiscal path. if the president would sit down with us, there are any number of ways we could make progress on this. that's all we want to do, let's make progress and stop this just kicking the can down the road. >> just as a last point on this, not only should they say that the treasury bonds would be paid off and covered and shows these numbers to reassure americans, but also the treasury makes 100 million payments per month to different accounts. now, some ex-budget directors and ex-treasury secretaries say that if you can prioritize nonessential versus essential workers as they have done during this so-called shutdown, you can prioritize the programs between essential and nonessential. why don't we go down that path? it would be a great way of budget pruning and actually turn a bad thing, ie the shutdown, into a good thing which could be government reform and

downsizing. >> absolutely. first of all, the interest payments occur on a separate payment system all together. that's on the fed wire. that's independent of all the other payments. and there is no chance that that needs to be it is rupted. we couldn't default on our debt unless the president will friday chose that he wanted to do that. which i don't ethink even president obama will do. >> they should call him on that. >> you're right. with respect on the other paints, a so he physicality kaeted software company would solve this problem in an afternoon, they would rewrite the program. maybe the treasury has done some of this since this is not the first time we've been at this juncture, but it would be incredibly ir responsible for them not to have some kind of ability to systemically identify the highest priorities and make sure that our systems are capable of paying those things first. >> one of the themes of tonight's show is if we can define nonessential workers, if they're nonessential, we don't

need them and if we can define nonessential programs, if they're not essential, we don't need it. it's just a common sense way. any american in business or small business knows that if you don't need something, get rid of it and cut costs. why don't we have that attitude in washington? >> are the part of the reason we don't go down this road is the administration don't want to expose the parts of government that we really don't need. the redone redundancies of which there s is so much. americans wouldn't notice it was missing except they would notice lower taxes and more prosperity. americans wouldn't notice it was missing except they would notice lower taxes and more prosperity. >> senator toomey, thank you very much. we have a lot more to talk about. later on in the show, we'll detail a growing list of government shutdown outrages. team obama's pet programs stay up, but national parks and

cancer research and mortgage approvals get cut off. go figure. what is going on here. and look, don't forget pre-market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. nonessential programs and nonessential workers should go into the private sector and get a job. don't clog up the government.

at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee, affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. get up to $140 in mail-in rebates when you buy four select tires with the ford service credit card. where'd you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer.

welcome back to the kudlow report. gas prices continuing to fall. aaa saying the national average for a gallon of regular is now $3.34. that's down 23 krpcents in the t month. missouri now close to $3, on the high end california at $3.85 a gallon. >> jackie deangelis, thanks very much. we welcome back our two stars, howard dean and dick armey. dick, i want to get your reading on two things. p when you were involved in shutdowns and debt ceiling and budget battles in 1995 and 1996, this is my first question, it

bill clip top stiff you, did he say i will not negotiate, i will not meet with you? >> no, as a matter of fact we met extensively and bill clinton was very professionally engaged in the details, chapter and verse details. the big difference was the shutdown in '95 was about budgetary matters and the president wanted to get it resolved. today what you have is a shutdown that's about the health care, this president doesn't want to talk and the last thing he wants is for the shutdown to be unresolved. that's why he's tagging indrag idea of the debt ceiling default which in fact the speaker has a is a place he will not go. but the president bless his heart doesn't get outside his comfort zone very well and his contract zone is explosively politics rather than policy. >> howard deep, when you were

governor of vermont, did you not meet with your legislative leaders?p, when you were governor of vermont, did you not meet with your legislative leaders?ap, when you were governor of vermont, did you not meet with your legislative leaders?np, when you were governor of vermont, did you not meet with your legislative leaders?, when you were governor of vermont, did you not meet with your legislative leaders? would you not talk to those guys if you had disputes? >> yeah, and i think dick armey's point was a good one. this a policy matter. it's the law of the land and is this a rear guard action to try to undo something they don't have the votes to do. so why should the president negotiate on health care. if he wants to negotiate on spending, i don't see a problem with that. the debt ceiling -- let me just say one other thing. i heard pam toomey's thing. and our deficit now is, i don't know, several hundred beillion dollars. i didn't hear one suggestion what would you cut. what was a nonessential service. tell wlaus what you'd cut. >> national enendowment for the arts, public radio. there is a list of-

>> those added together are less than one tenth of 1%. >> the thing i laugh about you liberals is either something is too big to cut or it's too small to cut. in any event, there's nothing you can cut. there haare so many government programs that are just plain flat wasteful and self in-dull gept programs and frankly, a lot of that is government patronage of the rent-seeking needs of big business in this country. we're not going broke taking care of the immediatedy needy. we're going broke taking care of greedy people who really shouldn't even find it within their dignity to take the handouts from tgovernment that they pursue all the time. >> you and i will have some agreement on that. i think there is too much corporate welfare. but i also think that one person's essential service is another person's wasteless

service. and i also think that senator toomey was right about one thing. i don't think we are going to default. but i still think markets will collapse. and the reason is that there is a lot of money going out the door now that cannot go out the door. that's social security checks, whatever it is, military payments. this is big money, hundreds of billions of dollars. secondly, this is a complicated argument, but i think this audience will understand it. you know that when the money comes in, if doesn't come in exactly. so one of the borrowing necessities for the federal government for example is to borrow in months where tax income is not coming in and then they get a surge of estimated taxes and so forth. >> but you can't fight about something that hasn't happened. you keep talking about a default on the debt ceiling that hasn't happened and the speaker said very clearly will not happen. if that's not scare mongering, i don't know. you guys got a boogeyman complex. >> but the speaker himself

reversed himself. he said that on sunday and then he said something else today. so we don't know what to believe. >> i think late last week, i'll be honest with both of you, when president obama gave his press conference, first of all, he was interviewed by john harwood, and he also gave some speeches, his care mongering on the default of the treasuries and crushing the markets and crushing the economy was, frankly, the worst thing i've ever seen. and i've been around a while and i've worked this government and i've covered government. and i've been on wall street trying to -- i've never seen a president for his own narrow political gains start scare moppingerering about defaulting on the debt. and why speaker boehner is a hero is because on two straight days i think thursday and friday, mr. boehner got up and said default is off the table. there is no such thing. you can argue which programs to cut, but the fact is a president trying to scare the hell out of

people about a nonexistent default that no one would take is just irresponsible in my opinion. it really borders on being unpatriotic, dick armey. i've never seen -- nobody. carter didn't do this kind of stuff, nixon didn't do this kind of stuff. nobody i know, dick armey, did this kind of stuff. and obama does it for political reasons honestly. i'll give you the last word. >> finally let me just say i'm glad you mentioned john boehner will. there is nobody in washington right now that has a more difficult task, a greater diversity of conflicting factions within his scope of responsibility or is doing a better job than speaker boehner. the country ought to be very proud of john boehner. i know i am. >> all right. it was a freudian slip at the top of the show. i said president boehner. i meantspeaker.

but he was very presidential telling the americans there will be no default. anyway, gentlemen, i appreciate it. the markets went back in a selloff mode today. we'll take a look at the down day on wall street next up on the "kudlow report". at farmers, we make you smarter about insurance. because what you don't know, can hurt you. what if you didn't know that posting your travel plans online may attract burglars? [woman] off to hawaii! what if you didn't know that as the price of gold rises, so should the coverage on your jewelry? [prospector] ahh! what if you didn't know that kitty litter

can help you out of a slippery situation? the more you know, the better you can plan for what's ahead. talk to farmers and get smarter about your insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum - pa - dum, bum - bum - bum - bum♪

welcome back. stocks continuing to feel the been of the government shutdown. the dow losing 136 points today,

s&p 500 falling 14. nasdaq sheding 27. the dow seeing its lowest close in a month has some traders worrying the selling pressure will continue at least until there is some resolution in washington. >> bonds held up pretty well, didn't they? >> bonds are holding up at this point. when you really look at the market reaction, we've had a couple of days where we're down more than 100 point. but still people are saying that's not as significant as it could be under this circumstance. the market is also holding up fairly well. >> all right. profits may turn out to be more important than all the rigamarole. >> we will see tomorrow. now, time to get back to washington and the latest on the debt battle. we still ask two key questions. first up, where is president obama and doctor won't he negotiate with speaker john boehner, and second up, when will this thing really end? because frankly, neither i nor anyone really knows. the other big question out there, why is the obama carole a

still such a failure. loser, obama care website which had technical issues. you can't campaign on the fact that millions don't have health care and then be surprised that had millions don't have health care. how could you not be ready? that's like 1-800-flowers getting caught off guard by valentin valentine's day. the american dream is of a better future, a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪ like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. that's how ameriprise puts more within reach. ♪

the president again today took the opportunity to beat his will i will not negotiate drum three times. take a listen. >> the president's refusal to negotiate is hurting our economy and putting our country at risk. this morning a senior white house official said that the president would rather default than to sit down and negotiate. really? >> i think we get the picture. but the question is why. why, why, why. going back decades, debt ceiling bills have been linked to campaign finance reform, social security, ending the bombing in cambodia, proposing a nuclear freeze, prayer in the schools. another day in the so-called shutdown and another day closer to october 17th, the debt

ceiling ted line deadline is he path to a solution in sight. guess the part that troubles me the most. no path. let's bring in democratic strategist, robert costa, and jim pethokoukis. bob, i want to start with you. you have a little bit of a menu now. not from the president. but harry reid wants a clean debt bill that's woo take uld t through 2014. speaker boehner can't get a clean did you tell biebt bill o believes. and rob portman has a bill that has conditions. where is the path to solving this? that's the part i don't see. >> it's a great question and i

think we should all pay attention to senator portman from ohio because what he's proposing is a clean cr and a clean debt limit extension, but adding on to that tax reform. and not tax reform that happens in this compressed period, but tax reform instructions, legislative instructions to have a tax reform panel or commission in the coming year. and that perhaps is one concession, one figure leaf the republican leadership can bring back to conservatives and say we got something. wasn't big, but we won something. >> just to go with that again senator portman's coming on tomorrow, he does want to raise the debt limit and couple that with a spending equivalent. he'll take president obama at his word. this is the key point. besides tax reform, what rob portman has is he wants the president to make between on the cost of living adjustment in social security. which would bring down the inflation rate and would bring down spending. now, is that doable? in a sense that's a spending cut

that would equal a debt increase. is that doable? i haven't heard the president talk about it but what do you think? >> it's portman trying to think a comfortable center because we've heard republicans for a long time talk about the interest in change cpi, how social security benefits are calculated. what portman is proposing is a little bit watered down with the cola. he wants to bring back some type of entitlement reform, so trying to come up with a different option. >> i was very disappointed, harry reid just echoed the obama line there is no efforts across aisles here. portman is talking to democrats. reid i guess doesn't talk to republicans. that's why i don't see a path to ending this anytime soon. what's your take? >> well, i don't see it ending anytime soon because you have very entrempged sides.

it's deifficult too expect them to negotiate when speaker boehner has a hard time negotiating with his own caucus. i think we all understand that reality. i think the most likely scenario, and i put that in compa quotation marks, is some kind of short term extension of the debt ceiling, short term cr until like november or tdecember more likely to release the steam valve, if you have. the reality is if anyone is expecting the president and dwm democrats to agree to the terms republicans have been out there on additional spending cuts as well as obama care, i don't think that's a negotiation you can have. >> then we won't go anywhere. if they're all going to be stubborn, if obama stays out of this and everybody will be stubborn, it won't get solved. let's go down the road here. november 15th was the deadline

for theirry read's bi rry harry. the original tipping resolution was december 15th. correct me if i'm wrong. if it goes beyond that, if we go through october, nothing. we go through november, nothing. we go through december, nothing. and chris is right, everybody will be objects city nant, when does it begin to protect the economy? >> i think you look a when does wall street believe it begins to hurt the economy. i read a lot of wall street research and generally i think folks are still pretty placid about the entire situation. they have solved it before, they will solve it again, no one wants to go over. yeah, they can probably prioritize these debt payments, though i pray the same people who designed the obama care exchanges did not write the software for the treasury department computer. that worries me a little bit. but let's assume that we can prioritize those payments. you're still talking about pretty quick sharp spending

cuts. i think wall street is worried about that. goldman sachs says they're worried about that. so at some point i think that's the-46 it's going to be the markets will force the agreement. >> best thing in the world. the market had a fabulous rally. first half of the year precisely during the sequester spending cut period which the cbo and bep bernanke and a lot of keynesian wall street economists said -- what happened? s&p went up 15%, 20%. so that is totally discredited. totally discredited. >> of course i would throw in that there was a little something else gogt on in the economy which was qe-3 which i think offset a lot of that austerity. but eyou're talking about sharp spending cuts which i believe over the long term less spending, small government is great for growth.

this fast and this haphazardly, i'm less confidence of that. >> we'll take a little break here. stay with me. much more to talk about. i want to talk about the house and whether they can get a bill through at all. but first, how are businesses reacting to this budget battle? what do they want from washington? the president had tof the best table can certainly answer that question. [ woman ] dear chex cereal, you've done the impossible. made gluten-free cereals in a bunch of yummy flavors. like cinnamon chex, honey nut chex, and chocolate chex... we're in cereal heaven. so thanks. from the mcgregors, 'cause we love chex. so thanks. from the mcgregors,

so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there ar24/7.branches? i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. a new way to bank. a better way to save. bank. your money needs an ally.

defaul welcome back. the wall street journal reporting that warren buffett has earned $10 billion on his investments since the 2008 financial crisis. that's roughly a 40% return over the last five years. buffett saying that the average investor could have done just as well had he or she been willing to jump into the market when every else was fleeing. goldman sachs, bank of america and general electric just some of the companies buffett invested in, but he also earned $3.8 billion on an investment in mars candy company, a sweet deal if ever there were one. now, the democrats and republicans in washington still at loggerheads about how to fund

the government. is there any evidence that the shutdown and debt ceiling brinksmanship is affecting the economy and hurting american business? here now is former michigan governor now president of the business round table john engler. great to see you. if this thing goes a month, and i believe it will, what is the toll it will take on business? >> i can tell you the toll it's taking right now. it's on america. and i just was overseas in places like roman i can't aia a city, reputation of the united states is taking a big hit. back at home, i think there are businesses that do businesses with the government, they're getting impacted right away. there is a lot of other business that deals with people who are themselves trying to lobby the go. whether it's a hotel chain, nobody's coming to washington anymore. but across the country, this further undercuts the idea of confidence in government, certainly competence of

government taking a big hit. >> this is less than 20%. it's not a real government shutdown. the defense department has restored a lot of their civilian furloughs and a lot of defense contractors are starting to put people back on. is it really that big a deal to the economy? >> you'd rather have it done and move on. one other thing, it's keeping them from coming tax reform. >> that's a great point. >> keeping them from having an energy policy. on the other hand, it is slowing the epa down, that's probably between. slowing the nlrb down. that's probably okay. so a mixed bag there. from the business perspective, there's a sense, yeah, we'll get a budget at some point. you ought to do your job. the debt ceiling is the one that is the big dark place that nobody really wants to go because the untecertainty that surrounds that. >> but i don't know boehner says we will not default, just a bunch of scare tactics from

president obama who ought to know better. big business, certainly the business round table, got a pass on the first year of bom obama care. they got a delay. don't you think individuals should have also gotten a pass first year on the mandate? why should big business get it and ordinary people not get it? >> i'm not sure big business got it because they were pleading for it as much as the implementation process had proven i think very difficult. there is very amount of implementation and decisions surrounding the affordable care act that have not been made. we didn't get a pass for example on wellness prevention. we think the policy that hhs came down with is really bad, it is expensive. we aren't getting a pass when it comes to i think the way we'll sort out full-time/part-time work. i think there is a lot of these things -- >> that's important. i want to get to that in a second. but it's really a political question. you look at the individual map date. i want to stay with that for a second. it's a disaster. it's a calamity.

there is no verification of income. the computer websites don't work. the hubs don't work. it's like nothing works in that thing. to me, they really should have had a year's furlough on this thing. why don't you, you're a distinguished former governor, why don't you get up there and say you're very sim pathetic to the idea that an individual mandate should be be delayed a year? >> we've even learned that the brt itself, our little organization, our 27 employees, will be impacted next year by obama care. and the insurance agent said why don't you renew early this year so we can stepped it almost a full year so we can put off the day when the cheg chickens come to roost. i thinkmplementation challenges think the people in the senate made a mistake when they tried to suggest they were going to

leverage the president into repealing his pride and joy and in fact one of the things that happened for the people who spent their career opposing obama care got elected after it was passed and said i'm here to get rid of it, they took the attraction, the attention on the affordable care act off just at the right time for the president obama. >> i know the businessman date has been postponed for a year. but we get a lot of reports and there is a lot of data.date has been postponed for a year. but we get a lot of reports and there is a lot of data. have the members slowed down hiring, have they increased part-time hiring, have they lowered hours worked, for example, all things that people have complained about because of obama care? >> i would not think that for the companies in the business round table, they represent 16 million, we have about 16 million employees, 7 plus trillion in revenues. this hapts hapts been tsn't bee

factor. why they have slowed in hiring is the uncertainty over the economy and other risk factors. but i think what the affordable care act has done, it's having a big impact on a lot of their supply chains, on their small and medium sized enterprises. i think they have slowed towdow. i think they're being cautious and i know from friends back in michigan that i used to connect with when i was governor, they're very uncertain. they do not know what's going to happen. >> i don't think anybody does. you didn't get the tax reform you wanted. that's still out there. governor, i knew him when he was reform governor of michigan and turned that place around. by the way, the current governor is trying to get michigan in shape. >> he's doing a very fine job. >> how did the government shut down the national parks but keeping michelle obama's let's move healthy eating program intact? and by the way, 20% if government workers are nonessential, why don't we just keep them off the job permanently? nonessential is nonessential. we'll get to the bottom of that with our next panel next up on

kudlow. there is a pursuit we all share. a better life for your family, a better opportunity for your business, a better legacy to leave the world. we have always believed in this pursuit, striving to bring insight to every investment,

and integrity to every plan. we are morgan stanley. and we're ready to work for you. make my mark i wawith pride.ork. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars.

welcome back. we've been talking a lot about the partial nature of the government shutdown. at least 80% of federal employees are still going on work every day. and those that aren't will still be paid when the shutdown ends. thanks to a bill passed by the house and senate. but there is growing outrage about some of the praegss that have been shut down while others

remain open. national parks and monuments are closed. the world war ii memorial in washington has gotten a lot of attention. and mt. rushmore is also closed. some people extra angry that even viewing areas on the side of the road are closed in that instance. and people who are vacation homes on lake mead are being sent packing. homes are on federal land. >> all right. there you have it, jackie deangelis. thank you very much. some things in life are unfair especially when they concern the federal government. now, let's continue that. they're calling it a shutdown. but when 80% of federal employees are still expected to show up to work, well, doesn't sound like a shutdown to me. in fact it sounds quite open for business. so if our federal government can remain operational in the absence of employees deemed nonessential, let's keep it that way, let's keep the nonessentials out. that could be called smaller government. we're back with our

distinguished panel. i'll go to you, chris. this is like a mini shutdown. i don't i think it's a shutdown at all. if you can say that certain employees are nonessential, then we don't need them. and if we don't need them, we consider shrinking the government's budget and its payroll. what's wrong with that idea? >> well, a couple things are wrong with it. one, the point about these workers even the ones that are essential and are working right now are not getting paid up the go. goes in to effect. putting that aside, this notion of essential versus nonessential, there is one important point to keep in mind. when i was on the hill wil, i ho make some of these decisions, who was essential, who was nonessential. it actually falls to every office to come up with their own formula. so certain offices where everyone is still working and other offices down to a skeleton screw. in terms of the federal government itself, you're talking about vital positions in national security, health -- >> those are essentials. those are deemed essential.

there is no -- your thing on the hill, you're dodging the question. these hill offices are tiny compared to what we're talking about. now you're getting to it. the military, some civilians nonessential, they were furloughed. some have been brought back, maybe they should remain furloughed. social security will stay. other smaller programs that will go. jimmy, i don't know why people in the house and senate don't get up and say this. if it's nonessential, it's nonessential. that's all. what's wrong with that? we have never made rifs in the federal payroll. why not now? >> i think we can. obviously i think there is a lot of nonessential activity going on. is it exactly the same as what's being defined as essential and nonsenessential right now? i'm concerned about the today the tdata collection agencies. but certainly there is plenty of waste. one idea is getting rid of some through attrition.

but there is a waste. >> i think this is a giveaway. i think they have opened the pandora's box that they were they hasn't opened. nonessential means you're nonessential. you shouldn't be on the government payroll. that means taxpayers should finance nonessential people. they have nonessential programs. i don't know why people don't jump on that. >> by all means listen we have to reopen the bls. i get like half of my web traffic on jobs friday. reopen the bls. >> i admit that but you know, what the bls could be done privately. national bureau of economic research -- >> and i think that will happen. >> i have to go bob. you were reporting that 50 to 60 republicans would break with john boehner if he goes for a small deal on the continuing resolution and the debt ceiling.

and you also report a lot of these people want some rescheduling of obama care which means that a delay either for the whole package or for the individual mandate or for funding. that's just not going to happen. how big does this tie boehner's hands, 50 to 60 people in his own ranks? >> the speaker is in an extremely limited position right now. because as he tries to move toward a mini bargain of sort, some kind of concession from the white house, whether it be a medical device tax repeal or some kind of instructions for tax reform, he's dealing with this block of 50 to 60 conservatives in the house, if it doesn't have a full defund of obama care or delay, they skrju won't back it. >> probably any repeal of the mandate won't happen. you can get the medical device tax down, you could do that, or some other small things, get congress to go into obama care. but you're not going to change

the big picture timing. we tried that and lost. >> that's right. and so the real dilemma is does he break the rule, does he solicit democrats to try to get democratic votes to put together a coalition to pass an extension. >> thank you very much. chris, robert and jim. thank you gentlemen. make sure to join us tomorrow night, special guest senator rob portman of ohio. he's got his own compromise proposal. i'm larry kudlow. thanks for watching. things i prefer to do on my own. but when it comes to investing, i just think it's better to work with someone. someone you feel you can really partner with. unfortunately, i've found that some brokerage firms don't always encourage that kind of relationship. that's why i stopped working at the old brokerage, and started working for charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today. peace of mind is important when so we provide it services you bucan rely on.

with centurylink as your trusted it partner, you'll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. multi-layered security solutions keep your information safe, and secure. and responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind. centurylink. your link to what's next.

[ engine revving ] >> this is what it feels like to drive 155 miles per hour on a public highway. it's surreal -- more like flying than driving. at these speeds, there's no margin for error. even the slightest mistake can be catastrophic. but this is the autobahn and here in germany, driving like this is not only legal, it's considered a national birthright. it's one reason germany has created some of the world's