and the website has suggested talking pointeds, like my kids won't stop yelling at me about going camping. back to you. >> thank you, and thank you all for watching. >> indeed, have "the kudlow report" is next. over to you, larry. thank you very much, mandy. they're talking but still no deal. the white house and republicans from both the house and senate have been in almost constant negotiations today. for the most part, both sides are remaining optimistic. but we are still waiting for a major breakthrough. meanwhile wall street's not waiting at all. investors are still betting on a deal and they sent the dow up more than another 100 points today. and the end of the world trade, the hedge, gold, sharply lower. we have another live hour of the latest stories from washington and wall street on "the kudlow report" beginning right now.

good evening, everyone. i'm larry kudlow. this is "the kudlow report." and we are live with you, everything you need to know heading into what will be a very important weekend. let's get an update right away on the negotiations to get a deal done to raise the debt ceiling and end the shutdown. we go to nbc news's luke russert. he is live on capitol hill for us this evening. good evening, luke. >> reporter: good evening, larry. a lot of optimism today when it started and came to the knowledge that there had been ongoing negotiations throughout the night between staffers for the house republican leadership and the white house. but there is still no deal to report. we've seen some different frameworks. first, the house republican framework. they would have a thing with two tracts, an extension of the debt limit till november 22nd and a separate funding of the government. the extension of the debt limit would be done in exchange for large scale negotiations, figure

out a way to address the large scale deficit drivers of debt. then you have another tract which is from the government dill december 15th. it's unclear what the white house would give. then you're starting to see some action on the senate side where susan collins of maine proposed repealing the medical advice tax, having it paid for and a six-month government funding bill as well as a six-month extension of the debt limit. you're seeing two divergent trains here. it's unclear which one will eventually get the votes. we know that harry reid is opposed to the six-week strategy brought forward by john boehner. it's unclear if john boehner could get that strategy out of the house with only republican votes. from where we stand right now, there is still optimism. but the prospects of having a deal as early as tonight or tomorrow, they don't look too good. it could be monday before we see some sort of vehicle in order to extend the nation's debt limit.

and how the markets react to that i think will really make or break whether or not to get a deal done by monday night. >> i think the polling data has shaken up the republicans. we're going to talk a little bit about that in a moment. but let me just ask you, i just interviewed senator collins, going to be on in just a few moments. i know she's contributing very important ideas on verification and ending the medical advice tax. who's she negotiating with? is she talking to democrats? is there any process that's been put together, conferees inside the senate? >> reporter: it's not gotten to that former level. the negotiations have been between more of the staff levels. it's still very much a fluid process. but what i can tell you is that i suspect that from where the president sits with this recent polling data showing the republicans branding a huge hit and he's backed them into a

corner, i don't see why he would except a six-week deal from the house republicans. i could see him trying to work out a deal with the senate, six months, longer. they repeal the medical device tax. have them change the health care law in terms of verification for those who enroll, whether or not they should be able to have a work requirement. but while they might target the law and reneges on the idea of he wouldn't negotiate gives them a better play and puts the house republicans in a difficult position. if john boehner is given a bill that's bipartisan and it's take it or leave it and he leaves it, the republican brand could be as good as dead going into next year. >> i agree with you. i think that's exactly right. that's one of the drivers for this whole process. as always, many thanks to luke russert. before we get on with our show, i want to tell you how relieved i am to see that the house and senate republicans are finally going to climb out of the ditch they made for themselves with the government shutdown and the threat not to raise the treasury

borrowing limit. may i say, these tactics never work. in fact, they are temper tantrums, not tactics. i assume every republican in washington can see the catastrophic polls where republican approval at 28%, the lowest in the history of the gallup poll. and the gop registered the lowest marks across the board from the history of "the wall street journal" poll. 70% of americans blame republicans for this budget battle. 70%. and you know what else? not only were the gop geniuses wrong, that the public would be behind them to defund obama care, they were wrong to assume that millions of people were going to flock to washington and protest and that the president would even sign a bill that, by the way, would never pass anyway. many gop strategists ought to be ashamed of themselves for their misjudgment and potential damage that they may have done for the 2014 elections.

meanwhile, all of this unnecessary interference with government operations in debt has obscured the catastrophic opening of obama care, which should have been the front page headline. but it has not been because the story is the gop is fiddling around with the debt ceiling. republicans have not been able to tell the disastrous obama care story. they got hung up on other stuff and now it's time for them to get out of this mess, lock, stock and barrel. get out of the debt ceiling mess and get out of the shutdown mess. final thought from me, republicans should be pushing for economic growth policies. take this paltry recovery from 2% to 4% with some supply-side tax reform and disciplined spending and entitlement reform. this should be their message. hopefully now the party is going to come to its senses and figure all this out. i say hopefully. joining us now is house member

scott riddle, republican from virginia. you put together your own plan. but before we get into the details, in your plan, you have, reopen the government. that was almost a revolutionary thought when you put this thing out a couple of days ago. for the life of me, i don't understand how shutting down the government would be on a separate track with the debt ceiling. i never understood that. will the gop now stay on both tracks? >> reporter: i'm a businessman. i said we ought to open the government on october the 1st. i sent out a tweet at 9:30 a.m. because i assessed where this was going to take us. this strategy we've been following. i told my staff and everyone who would listen, this thing gets worse, not better. it's going to put us in a putrid environment. that's where we found ourselves. your assessment of where we are and how we got here is accurate. what we really need to do, to

swing that radar out farther, do what's right for the next generation of americans and deal with mandatory spending. that's what my america first plan does. i appreciate the opportunity to talk about it. >> first of all, you also want to extend the debt, which i think is important. everybody's on board with that. let me ask you about some more controversial things. you want to repeal the medical device tax. i think that's great. you do, however, put in a plug of $100 billion in new revenues. >> absolutely. >> i'm curious, what are you referring to on that? >> principally it's limiting deductions for high-income wage earners, those that are making $1 million or more. here's the reality. republicans -- we voted for some spending that we're not yet willing to basically get the tax revenue to pay for it. that's the fact. and our democratic friends are no better. in fact, i think they're really driving this business not responsibly addressing the spending side.

anytime we try to touch mandatory spending, they go apoplectic on it. what i've said here reflects two realities. it reflects a financial reality and it reflects political reality. >> but i would say this -- i would suggest this. i'm a ronald reagan, jack kemp, paul ryan suppliy-cider. why not go for full-fledged tax reform. the problem i see is you want to raise revenues by putting the deductions in on the upper-end people. that's what the democrats want to do to the 5th power and we've already had two major tax hikes this year alone. >> larry, let me respond to that. this is my first elected office. i went right from running my own business, entrepreneur, to coming here. i've been here 34 months. and this idea of comprehensive

tax reform, i fully support it. but it's elusive. it's all the way around the corner. every time we try to deal with it. what i've presented here with the america first plan is a practical incremental step. not saying it will fix america. but i'm saying i want to show that this institution, the republican party, the democratic party can come together and deal with at least some level of mandatory spending, start to get ahold of this, larry, because if we don't, you talk about it all the time on your show, it truly does threaten the foundation of our recovery. >> i'm with you on that. i'm also with you, by the way, in getting rid of the deductions. but where we disagree is i want to lower the marginal tax rates on the other side. this is for individuals and corporations. i think that's a matter of pro-growth way to go. one of the things i want the gop to do, scott, i appreciate you coming on the show, i want growth. i want growth policies. i want people to talk growth, not austerity, not debt

ceilings, not shutting down the government. i want growth. >> absolutely. look, energy is the principal way to do that. we can create 18,000 jobs right there off the coast of virginia for local residents in hampton roads, virginia, norfolk, virginia beach, if the administration would get out of the way and let us leverage those resources that are there. the governor wants it. the general assembly wants it. two u.s. senators, both democrats want it. i ran on it. the administration is holding us up. >> i love the energy story totally. many thanks, congressman. now let's begin our expert free market panel for this evening. here now we welcome former congressman martin frost. he was a democrat from texas. john fund is here, columnist for "the national review." and kellyann conway. i may be too hard on him, but i think this whole bloody shutdown debt ceiling thing was one very big mistake.

>> you're entitled to your opinion. it certainly got the president's attention. your points are correct in that they've got to find a solution. i've never heard speaker boehner say the october 17th deadline is not real. i've never heard him once intimate to anyone publicly or privately that he would allow this country to go into default. i take note that the president's polling numbers have also fallen. he's lost a ton of credibility over this. and he's now locking arms with john boehner. i haven't heard harry reid's name all day. i think that's very purposeful. obama and boehner seem much more reasonable. harry reid is like, he's the only mormon i've ever met with a potty mouth. he insults john boehner, insults ted cruz, insults the tea party. and there's no way to negotiate like a grown-up. i think they will come to some kind of deal and we'll put the focus back on obama care. you can't perfume that pig. it's a disaster. the majority of the country is against it.

16% of the people in this country are going to benefit. >> i've never seen a time when shutdowns or messing around with the treasury debt has ever helped that party do it. but i want to ask you, marty, democrat that you are, you're a very powerful and influential democrat when you served. is kellyanne right about the harry reid problem? this guy could be his own worst enemy. the democrats have made a lot of mistakes not negotiating, for example, the military benefits, for example, not signing these short-term spending bills. they really have done all they can to help staunch the republican bleeding. >> look, harry is a tough, tough guy. people tend to underestimate him because he looks kind of meek. he's not meek at all. i understand why he's doing what he is. we'll see how this plays out. i was chairman of the democratic congressional campaign committee in 1996, the last time there was a big government shutdown in

'95. you would think the republicans would have learned some lessons from that. they lost nine seats in 1996. they could lose even more than that this time. i mentioned on your show about a week ago that they may be working hard to make nancy pelosi speaker. you poo-pooed that at the time. but the polls show the republicans have made a mistake. maybe they can get well. the election is not for another year. but this thing has to be brought to a conclusion. you're right on the merits. they need to get this off the table. >> john, i don't want to obsess about polls. polls are polls. real votes are more important than polls. but i've heard for weeks now that the republicans were doing well, that everybody hated obama care. turns out, they hate republicans more than they hate obama care. that's why i've emphasized this. i've never seen an opportunity, a moment when messing around with the government and messing around with our federal debt has been good. and i want to ask you, have they obscured their real message, their real message, which should be a pro-growth message across

the board, including rolling back and ultimately getting rid of obama care? >> well, i don't think their message before the shutdown was that clear either. >> right. >> the timing of this is bad for the country. i'll tell you why. the president and harry reid and nancy pelosi now smell blood. and they're going to be very few changes or reforms around the edges in order to get out of this mess. rather than have grand tax reform or a grand bargain, the odds have gone up dramatically that it's going to be trench warfare heading into the political season. that means bad news for any immigration bill, whether small or big. it means -- believe me, there were a lot of nervous democrats on obama care. privately, a lot of nervous democrats know obama care is, shall we say, problematic. but the chances of convincing the president to go along with any of that are gone.

>> the republicans stepped on their best line. >> right. what is the enemy of growth right now? it's uncertainty, high tax rates, policy -- >> obama care regulations. >> epa regulations. all of those are now more likely to be static, not changing for the next 14 months. that's bad news for the country -- >> at least ryan -- i give ryan credit. ryan wants to make the good fight on the pro-growth issues. it's the first time i've heard that from a republican in i don't know how long. it's been such a terrible summer. i have to give ryan credit for that. i know it's not going to get done. i understand the -- democrats don't agree on entitlements or tax reform or obama care. i get that. but at least you have to make the best fight you can make on the issues rather than getting diverted with all this other nonsense of global defaults and the rest. >> larry, what happened in 1996, congressman frost should have put a semicolon where he put an

exclamation point. bill clinton after vetoing welfare reform signed it into law. they got entitlement reform by pushing it. nobody's suggesting that shutting down the government is the way to do that. but the republicans held onto the house because they held their ground. the last time we got major entitlement reform was in 1996. >> let's not rewrite history. >> you're all going to come back. i have to take a quick break. we have to get your money. how do you manage your investments over the next couple of days when the slightest little political move could really shock the markets? we'll look at the market reaction today which was pretty good, including the steep drop of gold. and later, the obama care health care exchange sign-ups are still a disaster. the exchanges still a disaster. it's been 11 days and we're still seeing massive screw-ups

and very few people successfully signing up. we have to ask -- when is somebody going to lose their job over this disastrous obama care? and that person should be, i think, kathleen sebelius. but we'll see. as always, free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. i'll say it again. as a reagan supply-sider, that's where the republican party should go. free market capitalism, don't mess with global debt and all the rest of it. we'll be right back on "the kudlow report." americans take care of business. they always have. they always will. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence.

that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach. that's what they can do with you. at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee, affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. get up to $140 in mail-in rebates when you buy

four select tires with the ford service credit card. where'd you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer.

welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm courtney reagan with this market flash. another good day for stocks. the dow adding another 111 points today. the nasdaq up 91 points. the s&p 500 up ten, closing back above 1,700. we also want to show you gold. today down nearly $30 an ounce. part of it certainly a reaction to hopes for a deal in washington. but there was also a weird situation this morning. a huge order to sell gold futures went through. gold fell so far so fast it had to be halted for ten seconds to replenish the liquidity. >> many thanks, courtney reagan. appreciate it. let's go to don luskin.

you're an optimistic guy these days. >> i am. i said buy stocks and sell binds. this crisis was going to be another opportunity. i think we're in a very special situation here. over 2013, investors are learning bad things can happen, these risks can happen, government shutdown, debt limit threat, sabres will be rattled, but we're learning these things do not have to be systemic. they do not have to lead automatically to global contagion. not everything is the next lehman. we're going to be through this crisis in the next couple of weeks. it's going to be sfin. when we have faken that punch and the world banking system is just fine, thank you very much, this isn't greece, this isn't lehman or aig.

then we are going to be get back to the business of real growth. and we have not seen that in six years. investors have forgotten what it looks like, larry. >> i can remember what it looks like. phil -- >> you're too old. >> i know. but i saw it for a while. phil orlando, i want to know if you agree with don's optimism. >> i love his enthusiasm. he's a friend. we're there longer term. shorter term, three weeks ago, the market looked overbought at 1,730. we took the opportunity to tactically take a few chips off the table. the stock market looked pretty oversold two days ago. we got some good news out of washington late wednesday, early thursday. we put some money back to work. longer term, we absolutely agree with don. we believe the shift from fiscal drag into wealth effect is going to get us back to trend line growth or better starting next

year. we think that stocks are still attractively valued for the long term. >> don, back to you, u.s. economy, let's talk about that for a minute. let's put washington aside. what kind of shape is the u.s. economy -- we're not having great employment, we're not having great income gains. we have had great car sales and so forth. businesses are not investing. why do you think we're going to have this growth spurt in the usa? >> let's say why haven't we had a growth spurt? the reason why is we've been through six years of constant, imminent, systemic risk. productivity comes from risk taking. who can take any risk at all? who can hire somebody? who can build a factory? who can do anything when you're afraid that because greece defaults eat going to cause the whole house of cards of the world to fall down. we've learned in 2013 that we're fine, we're robust, we're immune

from contagion. don't worry about greece or cyprus or syria or indonesia. don't worry about washington. that's where growth comes from. >> you think those threats are behind us, particularly the european threats? >> that's just one of many. but with threats behind you when you're not up against this constant wall of risk that robs you of your opportunity to take personal risks because the world is imposing all its risks on you, no growth can happen. the risk is gone. growth can come back. it will come back from the bottom up. that's the miracle of growth. it's not about policies but it's about -- >> given the level of stocks and given the level of interest rates, what's your take on the market's valuation and how are you investing? >> stocks are still cheap, larry. sitting between 14 and 15 times earnings next year. core inflation, 1.2%. treasury yields sitting down here, 2.5%.

even if those levels double over the next three or four years, which we believe they should, we're in the sweet spot in the cycle whereas inflation goes up as interest rates go up, price earnings ratios will still expand. we expect to see multiples at 18 times earnings looking out over the next, say, three or four years. >> wow. all right. two optimists, very good, gentlemen. friday night, thank you very much. cattle ranchers in south dakota, don't talk to them about global warming. a freak snowstorm has left 100,000 cattle dead. that's next up on "the kudlow report." jackie: there are plenty of things i prefer to do on my own. but when it comes to investing, i just think it's better to work with someone. someone you feel you can really partner with. unfortunately, i've found that some brokerage firms don't always encourage that kind of relationship.

that's why i stopped working at the old brokerage, and started working for charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today. ido more with less with buless energy. hp is helping ups do just that. soon, the world's most intelligent servers, designed by hp, will give ups over twice the performance, using forty percent less energy. multiply that across over a thousand locations, and they'll provide the same benefit to the environment as over 60,000 trees. that's a trend we can all get behind.

welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm courtney reagan with this news alert. a freak early snowstorm has devastated the cattle industry in south dakota as the snow melts cattle ranchers are surveying the damage. and estimates are that as many as 100,000 head of cattle were killed in the storm. that's more than half of the state's herds. as much as four feet of snow fell in some parts of the state last week. that is quite a storm, not just some flurries. >> many thanks, courtney reagan. let's get back to washington and all the negotiation drama on capitol hill and in the white house as well. we're going to talk with one of the senate republicans who was

in the white house today with the president, utah republican orrin hatch. he will be with us in just a moment.

welcome back to "the kudlow report." we're here live before what will be a very important weekend of negotiations in washington. now, our next guest was part of the 90-minute meeting at the white house today, senate republicans met with president

obama and we welcome back to the show senator orrin hatch of utah, who i might add if i still have this right, you are the ranking republican on the very important finance committee. is that still the case? >> that's still the case, sure is. >> i want to ask you because i was reading some of the news wires after your meeting. you expressed a concern that president obama wants a sizable tax hike or revenue hike to go along with any deal. can you tell us about that? >> well, that goes without saying. we've already given him $1 trillion in obama care. that was a total democrat vote. and given him $600 million on the fiscal cliff. and now they want another $1 trillion. let's face it, they've had enough tax revenue. the question is, are we going to get spending under control. the president in our meeting today indicated that he's opening to trying to do something in that area. but i don't see it, personally. >> seems like there's a big disagreement. republicans are looking at tax

reform. you've been a longtime tax reformer. paul ryan wrote about it the other day. democrats have a different view of it. where they want to tax rich people and close loopholes and be revenue positive. how do those differences get bridged? >> i'm not sure that they can get bridged very easily. i'm impressed with susan collins and the work that she and the women in this caucus have done. the women in this caucus make a real difference. i think her ideas are going to be accepted and help in brokering a final deal. it includes my medical device tax removal that i've been fighting for. we got 79 votes for that on the senate floor here just this year. >> and the verification also which i think a important, income verification. >> yeah. >> let me ask you about another tough nut to crack as we go through the negotiations. entitlement reform.

republicans are asking for a period of discussion of future budgets including entitlement reform and tax reform. you're going to see most of those entitlement run through your committee, the finance committee. what is the outlook for things like lower -- the cpi, the index cpi, the lower cost of living adjustment, upper income people paying for higher medicare, federal workers having higher co-pays? is there any democratic interest in those kinds of entitlement reforms? >> not any, as far as i can say, or social security reform. we could fix social security tomorrow. it would be a relatively simple thing to do. but the democrats won't do it. in the case of medicaid and medicare, medicare is over $40 trillion in unfunded liability. medicaid is almost that bad. we've got to do something about these entitlements. i gave the president five bipartisan approaches, each one of which would help us get the entitlement reform, supported by

both democrats and republicans. i gave it to him at the beginning of the year. haven't heard back. and i raised them again just today with denis mcdonough down at the white house. haven't heard back on that. but we have to have entitlement reform. i imagine they'll be insisting on increasing taxes no matter what. >> does the president still hold to the cost-of-living adjustment for social security, the so-called cpi indexing, he's had it in his budgets, does he still hold to it? >> he put things in his budget, he knew that budget wasn't going to be acceptable to even democrats let alone republicans. that's kind of the game that's being played. but i believe he's sincere, that he would go for change cpi, which would be a more accurate way of determining the consumer price index that sets the price on a lot of these things. i believe he's sincere but i don't think the democrats will ever let him do that. >> notwithstanding the

difficulty about these reforms, may i ask you, are you optimistic that in the next 24, 48 hours or so we can reopen the government and raise the treasury's debt ceiling? >> well, we have to reopen the government and we have to basically -- we have to do it in the debt ceiling and raise it. but i've got to say, i don't think we'll do it in the next 24 to 48 hours. hopefully it will be done this next week. but we have a lot of people who have caused a lot of problems on this issue. and, of course, we've gotten ourselves in a bind where some who thought they could get rid of obama care and found out that the democrats are never going to let that happen, that put us in kind of a bind here. but hopefully we can get this taken care of next week. >> thank you very much, senator orrin hatch of utah. thank you for your time, sir. >> nice to be with you, larry. let's bring our expert free market panel back, martin frost, john fund and kellyanne conway. how long is it going to take -- if they all agree on reopening the government -- i guess the

house republicans are now on board with that. how long is that going to take? >> middle of next week. it's going to be one package and it's not going to be done on monday. hopefully it will be done wednesday. hopefully they don't take it up to thursday. >> do you think that's right? going to go right down to the deadline? >> sure. but i think this time they won't go to the 11th hour. i think they'll hand in that final exam a day early. >> let's hope at least one day. >> we had a woman on the show last night, congresswoman jenkins who was in the white house meeting. she said monday, going to get it reopened monday. >> nice lady from kansas. she's on the ways and means committee. >> they can vote all weekend. why can't they just do that? >> because that's not the way the place works. >> has congress ever done anything early? >> it's very rare. they have on occasion. >> what's going to happen -- we're going to debate benefits, entitlements, we're going to

debate taxes. is this bait ever going to bear any fruit? >> this current debate will have marginal changes. i think the medical device tax might be one of the sack official lambs because democrats hate it. i think republicans are going to have to see the sequester tweaked a little bit. >> oh. >> that's bad. >> tweaked in the sense of higher defense spending. >> that is the worst thing that can happen, that we trim the sequester, which is working, trim the sequester and all we get in return is, quote, lip service to entitlement reform. jay carney, the white house and the friends in the mainstream media will call it medicare cuts. i don't know what we get out of it. i'd love to have these conversations about growth and flat tax and tax reform and entitlement reform. we weren't going to have that conversation before the last three weeks and we're not going to have it in the next four months or three years probably. >> spending cuts is the last time it happened -- >> except for the republicans in

defense-oriented districts -- >> could we go back to one thing about obama care? i want to make one point. about 35 states, mostly with republican governors, opted out of having their own state exchange and put all their people into this new federal exchange. some of the states that established their own exchanges were able to get this right, their software worked. they didn't have as many people in the system. one of the problems has been all these states that opted out. you put millions of people into the federal exchange, that was a mistake. it should have been corrected. >> the thing is still falling apart. >> it's wrong. it should have been corrected. one of the contributing factors was that governors forced so many people into the federal exchanges. >> i have to do breaking news. we'll try to get back to that. we have breaking news. we have just learned that the grand canyon, statue of liberty and mt. rushmore will all reopen

this weekend. >> road trip. let's talk with senator susan collins, making a push for repealing the obama care medical device tax. she may be making some real progress. next up, senator susan collins. the ocean gets warmer. the peruvian anchovy harvest suffers. it raises the price of fishmeal, cattle feed and beef. bny mellon turns insights like these

into powerful investment strategies. for a university endowment. it funds a marine biologist... who studies the peruvian anchovy. invested in the world. bny mellon. at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee, affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. get up to $140 in mail-in rebates when you buy four select tires with the ford service credit card. where'd you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer.

top republican senators meeting with the president at the white house today. for more on what went on during that meeting, we bring in senator susan collins from the great state of maine. ms. collins, as always, it's terrific to see you. thank you very much for doing this. can i just ask you, how is the mood in that room? was there cooperation with president obama? what did you take away from it? >> well, first of all, i'm glad that the president finally sat down for a long overdue meeting with senate republicans. i really felt that he should have done this long ago before we got into this terrible situation. and reached this impasse. the mood of the meeting was somber but respectful.

i think it was a constructive meeting. but there certainly wasn't any breakthrough. nevertheless, i think it's really important that finally the president was willing to negotiate since previously he had said that he would not do so. >> can i ask, it sounds to me -- it's very important. sounds to me like the republican party in both the house and the senate are now coming around to the view that the debt ceiling must be increased and that the government must be reopened. now, when we started this negotiation, so to speak, 24, 48 hours in the house, they were talking about the borrowing limit. but they weren't talking about reopening the government. is now both on track? >> that's exactly right. i'm really glad that the republicans, my party, has come around to that conclusion. this shutdown of government was really starting to have

consequences that went far beyond furloughed federal workers and were affecting the private sector and our economy as a whole. and the prospect of a default by the united states, for us not to pay our bills, is really not responsible. but neither is it responsible to continue to ignore an unsustainable $17 trillion national debt. >> i've never seen a time -- like yourself, i've been around for a while. i've never seen a time where these shutdown tactics ever work. but let me ask you a couple of things. i know you're now involved in some possible dealmaking or contributing. 9 how long would you like to see the debt extension go? >> i've suggested in the plan that i've put out with senators murkowski and ayotte that the debt limit be extended through

january 31st of next year. that would give us three months to work on a longer-term fiscal plan to address the very serious fiscal imbalance in our country. but it would also help to soothe the markets and assure social security recipients that their checks wouldn't be delayed. >> and what would you like in return when the bargaining occurs and negotiating -- you've got a couple of requests. can you tell us? >> i do. one would be to either repeal or at least delay for two years the tax on medical devices, such as pacemakers, artificial knees, defibrillators that was included in the affordable care act known as obama care. that tax, industry estimates tell us, would cost us some 43,000 jobs, stifle innovation,

drive some of the industry overseas and be passed on to consumers. so it would actually increase the cost of health care. second, i want to see real verification of the income of individuals who apply for insurance on the exchanges to prevent fraud. >> yeah, that's right. that's like an open-ended entitlement. can i ask an ending question here? what do you think the chances are -- everybody's going to be working over the weekend, as i gather it -- that the government could be reopened on monday? >> i'm very hopeful that that will be the outcome of these discussions. this has gone on far too long and it's time for us to govern responsibly and for this impasse to come to an end. >> senator susan collins of maine, thank you very much for coming on. thanks for your contributions. appreciate it. thousand, all the shutdown drama has kept the massive obama care sign-up process disaster

off the front pages. that's not all. a leading ceo is now saying obama care is definitely a jobs killer and he can prove it. that ceo joins us live next up on "the kudlow report." the american dream is of a better future,

a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪ like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. that's how ameriprise puts more within reach. ♪

the obama administration denies that obama care is creating a part-time economy. but a new piece in "the wall street journal" outlines just how many full-time jobs have

actually been sacrificed as a result of the health care overhaul. here now is the author of that piece in "the wall street journal," ceo of cke restaurants. still with me are martin frost, john fund and kellyanne conway. andrew, before i get to your part-time/full-time, there's a big piece out today, they finally got a count on the sign-ups for health care. it's coming in vastly below estimates. also apparently they were going to throw out the computer system and try to put something new in. in fact, 51,000 people signed up in the first week. they were expecting a huge multiple of that. and now the congressional budget office says they'll be lucky to get 7 million people at the end of six months. it's going to come in around 2 million people. so the whole thing's gone down. who's to blame? doesn't sebelius have to be blamed for this?

what happens? >> i think a lot of the problem is what you're trying to get young people to do is act against their own economic interest because many of them feel they don't need health insurance. our employees, i went and asked how many of them signed up for the insurance policies we had. we had about a 6% sign-up rate. most of them said they didn't sign up because they were young and healthy and could get care at the emergency room. now the numbers for obama care are coming in which are way beyond what anybody thought they would be. young people aren't signing up. if young people don't sign up, this system doesn't work. it's the premiums they pay that pay for the elderly or the people that are sick. the problem is t with the law. again, i don't think the obama administration or those in congress took a look at this like a business would look at it. they didn't look at it to see how it would work. they had some dream or utopian concept of how it would work and it wouldn't work. >> they're expecting 6 million

after six months. and now their estimates are down to 2 million. so basically you're not blaming sebeli sebelius? >> no, i blame the law. i'm not attacking anybody's intentions. i think they had good intentions, what they wanted to do. but the problem is the way they went about it is a way that doesn't work. it doesn't function. if you were in business and you tried this approach, you'd be out of business in a hurry. >> to your op ed piece, the obama administration denies that part-time workers are rising rapidly. you say they're wrong. what's your point? >> the bureau of labor statistics actually issues numbers that say how many jobs created are part-time and how many are full-time. and the period when the employer mandate really would have been relevant under obama care was from january 1 of this year through july 2nd when they said they were going to extend it. while it doesn't take effect until january 1st of next year, there was a one-year lookback to see if people were part-time. from january of this year through july when they announced

they were going to delay it, you really could see how businesses were reacting. if you look at the bureau of labor statistics' numbers, this is the survey they used to calculate the unemployment rate, there were 883,000 part-time jobs created and we lost 97,000 full-time jobs. i don't think there's any question that there was a huge impact, even the individual that ran the bureau of labor statistics for the obama administration from 2008 to 2012 said he'd never seen anything like it. he doesn't think there had ever been a six-month period where that many part-time jobs were created. >> the unions are furious at this because they're going to lose their highly subsidized cadillac health insurance. but employers are cutting back on hours worked. the united states used to have a 40-hour workweek. now it's gone down to a 30-hour workweek. and because of obama care, may go down to a 29 or 28-hour workweek. do you think that obama care is the cause? i'm assuming it is the cause, not everybody agrees with me.

>> it absolutely is the cause. it sets a 30-hour limit. above 30 hours, you have to offer people health insurance. 30 hours and below, you don't. when you make something more expensive, businesses use less of it. when you make something less expensive, they use more of it. when you make the labor more expensive, when you make part-time or 30 hours less expensive, people use more of it. if ground beef goes up and chicken goes down, people buy more chicken. it's just common sense. >> i'm running out of time. kellyanne, why doesn't the republicans tell these stories? they're worried about the debt shutdown. why not tell these stories? >> since the republican party is waiting for the young to get old and the single to get married to find new voters, they should find that single mom who has to have two jobs, 20 hours each and no benefits to do it.

>> andy, thank you very much. martin frost, john fund, kellyanne conway, guys are great. that's it for this evening's show. thanks for watching, everybody. please join us again on monday night. maybe we'll have an open government on monday night. wouldn't that be something? maybe we can have some free market capitalism. maybe we'll get tax reform. i know, i'm dreaming. i'm kudlow. see you next week. de to work. make my mark with pride. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there ar24/7.branches? i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water.

it's a long story. well, not having branches let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. a new way to bank. a better way to save. ally bank. your money needs an ally. geoff: i'm the kind of guy who doesn't like being sold to.

the last thing i want is to feel like someone is giving me a sales pitch, especially when it comes to my investments. you want a broker you can trust. a lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients. that's why i stopped working at my old brokerage and became a financial consultant with charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today. diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.

[ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. >> narrator: in this episode of "american greed: the fugitives", john ruffo appears to be a business owner, a good husband, and a loving son. >> he was very generous, and he was like the rock everyone leaned on. >> narrator: yet he's secretly pulling off one of the most outrageous bank frauds in american history. and when he gets busted, he thinks of no one but himself. >> and then [snaps fingers] boom, he's...he's gone. he is on the lam. totally shocking. he left very little trace. >> he just has to make one mistake. we can make many. he just has to make one, and we'll catch him. >> narrator: and later, in florida, fbi agents are on the f