>> j-i-v-e, a lot of upside call buying. like this one to pop. >> all right. we'll watch that on an up day. the dow closing in on a double-digit move. s&p, nasdaq as well. that's it. follow me on twitter. "halftime" starts right now. >> "power lunch" and the second half of the trading day start right now. >> thank you very much. and a fabulous conversation you had with carl icahn in the past hour. let's where we begin. carl icahn trying to shake things up at apple, calling for that big buyback. as icahn makes his moves, should you ride his coattails? the "fast money" guys are going to talk about that. amazon reporting tonight. there it is, big winner, no earnings really in some cases. the stock up 95% in three years without really any earnings to speak of. but there are a bunch of other

companies also on the rise where the profits aren't there. the risk and reward coming up. and it's simply unbelievable. wait till you see what happens here. what archaeologists have discovered in italy. tom hanks, get ready. we found, we think, your next movie. sue, down to you at the nyse. >> yeah, it's a fascinating discovery, ty. "fast money halftime," as you said, had the interview of the day so far on cnbc with carl icahn just hours after he released that letter he sent to apple outlining his activist strategy. >> we feel tim cook's doing a great job, but we also feel they are not doing -- they're very derelict in not doing a buyback. if other shareholders feel the same way and tell us that, we'll test the waters because as you know, there's a great feeling about apple. and there should be. >> shares of apple right now on the trading session are up $5.27. that's a 1% gain.

but for the year, the stock is down 13%. and bond investor bill gross adding a little fuel to the fire, sending out a message by twitter, telling icahn to use his smarts to help others. chris casso covers apple for susquehanna financial group. he joins us now. chris, you've been positive on apple. do you still like the company after this move from icahn? does it make you like it more or less? >> well, i think the issue that carl icahn is talking about is really dealing with the multiple that apple is likely to see in the marketplace. we upgraded the stock about a month ago on the fundamentals. and i think that frankly estimates are likely to move higher for apple based on the sales of the product. so if both of those things happen together, it's good for the stock. >> so at this point, would you add to an apple position, if you're an individual shareholder with a longer-term time horizon? >> yes, certainly i would. and our thesis on the stock really has three things to it.

one is that the consumer acceptance, the current phone seems better than what we had anticipated coming in. i think the margins on apple are likely to get better as we go through the year into next year. and i really like the stock for next year's products. i think the prospect of an iphone 6 cycle next year is likely to be even stronger than this year's cycle. and all that together likely to raise numbers for the stock. >> is there anything that would change your opinion of the stock? i would assume it would have to be a fundamental shift in either the products, demand, a market event, something along those lines. >> that's right. and apple at this point is essentially a consumer stock. it depends upon consumer acceptance of their products. so that's always a wild card. i think what we liked -- and again, we upgraded the stock after the 5s came out. and the consumers seemed to like it. and it's really not that different of a phone than the iphone 5, and yet consumers still liked it. i think as we go into next year, the prospect of a larger screen phone, really that's the hole in

apple's lineup right now is a larger screen phone. and anticipating they're going to come out with that next year. i think it's even stronger next year. >> chris, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> chris craasso. let's bring in andrew. good to see you again. zmoo thank you. >> you do hold a large position in apple. give me your take on what's going on with mr. icahn and basically whether or not you agree with his thesis. >> no, look. it's great. we own it. enhancing shareholder value i'm all for. and i don't think he would disagree with what i would say, which is but be wary of the long term which is it's a consumer products company. you know, wall street is littered with companies that were technologies angels and they fell. >> right. >> consumer innovation passed them by, and they raised their dividend, issued special dividends, bought back stock, and their stocks haven't done well. it's all about innovation. as a shareholder, i want them to focus on the next products. that's the most important. >> are they doing enough for

you? >> well, your previous guest pointed out, look, the 5s has done better than expected, and estimates have risen. that's why the stock is up. the stock is up because their next product generation has done better than we thought. >> okay. >> and that's the most important thing here. >> let's broaden it out to the overall market. you have been right on the money in terms of saying this market has the fundamentals to continue to go forward. and we're going into the last part of the year. >> very good time. >> traditionally is strong, right? >> yes, exactly. and what we discussed earlier this year is that we're in the pe expansion market now. if classic second stage, we've had about four or five years of earnings driven, now we're in the key expansion, and that's what's happened, but the market is still trading at only less than 15 times forward earnings. and with the fed not going to taper -- you heard vince rinehart just a few minutes ago say with the fed now probably out till march, i think the multiple can continue to expand until we get closer to that date. so near term, it's very bullish for stocks. next year when the fed tapers,

it's going to get a little tougher. but for here, i think it's a pretty good environment. >> in between there, though, we once again have to revisit the washington story. with the debt limit. how dangerous is that for a market that has had such a significant run? >> sure. well, the answer is is that organically, the economy is recovering, and washington has tried hard to derail that. but the economy has recovered. and so that's what i think investors are finally saying, i'm not going to get suckered into watching washington to determine what's happening to my equity shares. and that's why we didn't see a selloff like we saw at the end of last year. >> right. >> or in the summer of 2011 when we had the last fight. so i don't see washington derailing the market. and i think there's been a lot of negative press about the fallout of what's happened. >> absolutely there has. what areas of either domestic -- the domestic stock market or the global markets do you like for clients? >> so i still think that growth stocks have started to work.

it's classic later cycle. and as much as there's a lot of these uber growth momentum stocks that have fallen out most recently, i think underline there. there are a lot of companies growing 10% to 15% a year that are trading at very low teens multiples. so a little bit more work, health care, consumer discretionary, technology. you know, apple's only at 11 times forward earnings. so i think that there are a lot of companies out there that have quite a bit of upside because you can get earnings growth plus pe explanation, and that's where the real opportunity lies. >> always great to see you. thank you so much for joining us. andrew slimmen from morgan stanley. up to dominic chu. >> check out royal caribbean shares, sailing higher. the world's second largest cruise operator posted third quarter net income that dipped slightly. cost cuts and rising ticket revenue helped it beat wall street estimates. it also lifted its outlook for the full year. so rcl shares, tyler, back on the rise. tyler, back over to you. >> thank you very much. scott wapner brought carl icahn back to cnbc last hour.

it seems you're his mel brooks to his carl reiner. stephanie link, josh brown, joe terrano terranova also here. i want to talk about what it's like to pull into an investment like apple. let me start about asking something that scott unearthed, and that was about his sale of netflix earlier this week. and i think we got a very interesting window into his sell discipline. he basically said it wasn't because reed hastings said something about the stock. it was because i made five times my money. is that really a key takeaway, joe, from what we can -- what we can learn by watching icahn? sell discipline? >> i think it has to be. and i also think it's important to understand that what icahn is saying is i'm taking some profit and i'm hoping the sale i made is a lousy sale because i want the stock to continue moving higher because underneath it all, i still own a significant amount of shares. you have to understand the

actual investment that you own. think for a second about netflix. an incredibly rich valuation. now you get really, really strong earnings. you want to take advantage in selling into that strength. you're also talking about a much different market cap than what he's got going on with apple. netflix, only about $20 billion. so it's much smaller. >> so stephanie, how do you decide when you've got a profitable position that it's time to get out? what do you look for? >> well, valuation. and every stock and industry, they trade on different valuation, that makes sense. some are on pe, some are on ebitda, some are on price to sales. and i look at -- and i spend a lot of time at looking at historical levels. for example, you'll look at a caterpillar. that's a good example. the stock is trading at about 15 times forward estimates, but historically, it's traded as high as 20 times forward estimates. so i think that you can make a case for if the stock runs to that 20 multiple, then you can take some profits. and i think it's really important to, though, focus on

fundamentals, though. if a fundamentals story changes and the stock is up and you have gains, then can you take some money off the table. if it doesn't change, i think it's also important to take some money off the table. >> so josh, how do you invest when you read a headline or you hear that some smart person whom you admire, whether it's icahn, whether it's buffett, whether it's bill miller is taking a sake stake in a company, do you ever follow them based on that alone? >> i think as a trader you can, and there's nothing wrong with that. but as an investor, rather than follow, you should use it for idea generation. >> point of entry, not point of conclusion. >> sure. use it as the basis for, okay, what does he see here? what's happening with this stock that this illustrious investor sees there? and you may have a totally different time frame. the other thing to keep in mind is a lot of the time when we get that information, it's 45 days out of date. the 13f file is coming out six weeks after the end of the quarter. it might be a moot point. they might have sold.

they might have bought more. you really don't know. i think it's a starting point. it should never be a decision point. >> or in the case of icahn, it's instantaneous because he tweets it. i just bought it. >> if it's above a 5% position, clearly you're going to get quicker information. >> he tends to take bigger positions, right? and he's had an incredibly golden year. his own stock has done well. the stocks that he has done over the years, whether josh, you're a trader or an investor, if your time horizon is one week or ten years, if you've been in some of the names that he's been in this year, you've been aware. >> here's the problem with that, scott and tyler. i think this is really, really important. we could have had an identical conversation about following bill ackman a year ago before all of his trades went wrong at once. we could have done the same thing about einhorn, name an illustrious investor. every one of these guys goes through their moments. >> you look troubled or puzzled. >> no, i'm not troubled by it,

but i think all of us and all of them, we trace out a road map for what we think's going to happen. i think you have to go back to what carl originally told us. what did he believe about netflix? he believed the fundamentals of the company would reaccelerate. well, that actually happened in the earnings report. additionally if you think back when netflix was a sub100 dollar stock, we were talking about the potential for m&a. now that it's north of 350, you have to remove the m&a premium which is not as significant as it was. >> the possibility that somebody would swoop in and pick it up. should i play icahn by buying icahn enterprises? >> you certainly could. you could diversify. >> if you did in january of 2000, you'd be happy as heck right now because the stock since january 1st of 2000 is up 1400%. >> but i think to josh's point, maybe you take it as idea generation. we're always looking for ways to find new names. and you look at a lot of

different research houses, newspapers. if you find out that carl icahn owns a name, you start doing homework on it. i think what's happening with apple, simultaneously we're seeing fundamentals start do do a little better. >> i asked stephanie, what's the critical reason that she looks at in deciding when to sell? when you've sold positions, what is the main reason usually that you've sold? >> it's fund mental fulfillment so to speak and it's reaching the point where we're looking for these factors to actually occur -- >> and when they do? >> you've hit the metrics. >> i would say aphorisms is not going to help you. on the other hand, pigs get slaughtered. there's no mathematics in that. so when icahn says i'm up 500%, how can i not sell, he's right, but couldn't he have also said that when he was up 300%? same logic. so i think you have to be case by case. there is no rule of thumb. there is no right answer to this question. and i think really it's about what your time horizon is, why

you own an investment to begin with. what you're expecting to happen valuation, technicals, sentiment, trend. there's no right or wrong answer. >> the netflix story to me teaches a whole bunch of lessons that we've talked about over the last couple days. whether it's guts, getting in at 58. the stock was broken. there was a problem with the company -- right? the stock had come down. you still had to buy the stock. he bought it at 58. you got to have some guts to sense that there's something going on here. you have to know -- >> but scott, there are some investors like icahn, like soosy that can create their own alpha vus by virtue of getting involved. >> let me finish, it's guts, knowing when not to be too greedy. he could have sold. he could still be riding this train to 6. >> and he still is. >> and the ultimate thing is knowing when to get out. >> but wait a minute. if i go and buy a stock, that doesn't put a floor in. if icahn does, as publicly as he did with netflix, it's probably

done dropping. we're not all carl icahn. >> that was the case maybe with bill ackman and jc penney. >> i can see that you're long rainbow like me. i just want to follow up here. as i was listening to your conversation with him, the thing that leaped out at me is when early in the conversation, he said, well, if he says no -- you asked him, what will you do if he says no? well, then we'll go back and canvass institutional shareholders and see what the appetite is for a proxy. >> right. >> that's a nonthreat threat. >> oh, i think it was a threat. he's trying to be as cordial as he possibly can to at least get tim cook to entertain the idea of doing this big buyback. but, look. carl doesn't get into a stock or a position, take an activist position. this is an activist position. >> you bet. >> he's urging change and he's not going to settle for anything

less. at least at this particular time. making money in this instance is good. he's made $300 million, $400 million already on apple. but the end game comes with more than that. if you can make the change that he says he wants. >> thanks, guys, for your help today. appreciate it. sue, down to you. >> thank you all very much. should you believe in a stock that is soaring but has no profits? dominic chu is reporting on these stocks for us all day long. dom? >> well, sue, take a look at this because this stock is up 129% so far this year. we don't know what it is, but we do know it's made no profits over the last year, but it's still powering stock gains. stay tuned because after the break, we'll tell you what this stock is and some of the others that make no profits but power shareholder returns. back after this break. [ bell ringing, applause ] five tech stocks with more than a 10%... change in after-market trading. ♪ all the tech stocks with a market cap... of at least 50 billion... are up on the day. 12 low-volume stocks... breaking into 52-week highs.

six upcoming earnings plays... that recently gapped up. [ male announcer ] now the world is your trading floor. get real-time market scanning wherever you are with the mobile trader app. from td ameritrade.

it is a monster day for earnings. amazon, the big names getting ready to report after the bell today. analysts expect a loss of 9 cents a share and revenues of almost $17 billion. but it will be guidance for the fourth quarter holiday shopping season that wall street will be watching for. amazon may not be making money, but its stock is making money for its investors, hitting all-time highs earlier this week. it's up 30% so far this year and up 455% over a ten-year period, ty. >> all right, sue. you know, amazon's example made us think or ask what other big-name stocks have seen a run

without making any money? all day today dominic chu is breaking it down, and he's found some very interesting suspects here. >> well, some suspects because back on "squawk on the street," we told you about best buy and staples. both stocks there showing tremendous runs. both haven't made any profits for shareholders over the course of the past 12 months. so let's bring you a couple others. let's start with one which i find really interesting here. this mystery stock, which we showed you in the break before is up about 128%. it's an $11.50 stock. and here's the thing. with regard to its losses, it's made quite a few of them over the course of the past year. you can see here, they've lost, oh, about $828 million. 12 months, all right. and, again, if you take a look at the overall return, this is a company that's in medical devices. so which company are we talking about here? it's none other than boston scientific. this particular stock has been up, again, 128%. it's added about $8 billion of shareholder value without turning any profits. >> so what are investors seeing

that the profit and income statement aren't showing? >> it could be about future growth prospects, about whether or not this company is getting ready to turn things around and turn a profit. but here's one that's interesting for you as well. this one we haven't really seen so much of in terms of the sector. it's a $28.50, and it's up 42% just so far over the past -- >> doubling the market. >> -- over the year. very much so. it's a very good company that's lost over $1 billion in the last 12 months and has created about $4 billion of shareholder value. it's in oil and gas. any guesses? >> chesapeake? >> it is chesapeake. that's a good one. chesapeake energy here. this stock has, again, lost $1 billion -- >> i'll take oil and gas for $30, dom. >> that one right there. now, the interesting part again about these stocks is that they have shown these run-ups despite not making any profits. and that's why it's important to understand as a stock market investor, it's not all about making profits to drive stock returns. it's about the expectation that those profits can come in the

future and will continue. and here's the best part. there's a ton of these candidates out there. and coming up later on this particular show and later on in this afternoon, we're going to show you other stocks that are like this. and one in particular's pretty interesting. a pharmaceutical company we'll show you on "street signs" that's not made any money but had some stellar stocks. >> it's very interesting. your return in a stock is driven by three things, it seems to me. number one is profit. number two is income. and number three is the speculative side of that return. >> it's part of the component. and oftentimes -- >> and here we're looking at speculative. >> there's so many dynamics. but in this particular case, it's all about those coming together and that's what drives returns. >> dom, thank you very much. good to play with you here. sue, down to you. well, gentlemen, the contractor behind obama care, that website, of course, which is really having some very difficult times now, well, he's on capitol hill facing the fire today. we'll have that. plus, past comments from the president himself. did he oversell obama care? and the five biggest problems

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welcome back to "power lunch." i'm dominic chu. we're watching wynn reports. the company will report third

quarter earnings after the bell today. expecting to gain $1.66 on revenues, up $1.4 billion. analysts have become increasingly bullish. consensus estimates have risen from $1.54 over the past three months there. closing bell will have the results as soon as they come out, so stay tuned for that, sue. back over to you. >> we sure will, dom. thank you. obama care, the affordable care act, is front and center on capitol hill today. the main contractors for the government's exchange website getting grilled by lawmakers over their role in all the glitches and the problems that the website has been -- is seeing. bertha coombs is following that very closely. she's live in washington for us. bertha, over to you. >> reporter: sue, that hearing started at 9:00 a.m. this morning, still going on, and there's a lot of bipartisan frustration with the answers coming from the two key contractors involved in the heart of building the federal exchange. they keep deflecting much of the blame for the exchange's failure to cms, the centers for medicare and medicaid. the chief agency that is involved in the rollout of the

affordable care act. cgi, the firm responsible for the overall architecture of the project, said its part of the system, the problem was software that helped result in the bottleneck that we've seen. qssi, a division of unitedhealth, that had software involved in part of that identification system, said its software worked and that it actually raised red flags that other parts of the system didn't. both said there were late changes to the site as late as two weeks before they were set to go live. testing time was short. and all of those major decisions came from health officials. >> cms had had the ultimate decision for a live or no-go decision. not cgi. >> all of the concerns that we had which were mostly related to testing and the inability to get as much testing as we would have liked, we expressed all of those concerns and risks to cms throughout the project. >> reporter: neither picked up a time line for which problems would be fixed.

cms officials will be on capitol hill testifying next week. and this afternoon they plan an update, an operational update, on how things are going with the exchange fixes. we'll bring you those once they become available. sue? actually, i'll pick it up, bertha. thanks so much. in his recent speeches, has president been overselling and underdelivering on his health care plan? michelle caruso-cabrera has that angle covered for us. michelle? >> tyler, we found this sound bite from september 26th of this year. take a listen. >> if you've ever tried to buy insurance on your own, i promise you, this is a lot easier. it's like booking a hotel or a plane ticket. >> maybe not so much. all right, everybody's focused on the technical issues, but i believe it's even bigger than that. the website issues are emblematic of how government works. great op-ed in "the journal" earlier this week pointed out a business would never have tried to do such a massive launch on a massive scale all at once. here's another couple of sound bites we dug up. >> if you like your current plan, you will be able to keep

it. let me repeat that. if you like your plan, you'll be able to keep it. if you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan, period. no one will take it away. no matter what. >> a lot of people are discovering, though, that if they like their plan, they can't keep it. kaiser health news has done great reporting on this. florida blue sent out 300,000 cancellation notices on plans. kaiser permanente in california, 160 cancellation notices. that's half of the individuals that they covered. why? obama care requires plans to have a certain level of coverage, and those plans sold to individuals don't have enough. so hundreds of thousands of people, individual buyers, are finding out that if they don't want to pay for all that coverage, it's tough luck. keep in mind, though, corporate plans are next because in 2018, a 40% excise tax imposed on

health insurance benefits that exceed $10,200 for individuals, $27,500 for families, ditto. this will affect people working for major corporations and unions who have so-called cadillac health plans. to avoid the tax, employers will cover less. we've also found out that rural prices have failed to fall. front page of "the new york times" today, 2,500 counties served by federal exchanges and 58% have only one or two choices, in 530 counties, only one insurer is offering a plan. bottom line, we haven't seen as much competition as promised, and that's led to sticker shock. this varies by state and income and by individual. but many people are discovering that they're going to have to pay a lot more. listen to this quote from tom with washore. "i was laughing at boehner until the mail came today. his insurance costs are going to rise by $10,000 per year, tyler,

to cover his family." >> compared to what he had before. >> exactly. >> one of the keys, as you point out, is that the new law requires that certain things be covered. >> yes. >> that older bare-bones plan -- >> did not. >> -- did not cover. >> those things cost money. >> and now you'll have to pay for that. >> exactly. >> welcome back. good to have you back. >> good to be back back. >> where do things sit? apart from all these other issues that are maybe more significant. >> right. i think there had been a lot of substantive fixes, but the problem is that the individual is not necessarily noticing them. i saw a study today that 75% of the people when they were trying to log in weren't able to do so. that's still dramatically high. so a lot of people are having problems signing up. the few people that are able to sign up, their data is corrupted, there's problems on the back end. and those enrollments are having to be hand processed which is further slowing down the enrollment process, increasing

pressure of the individual mandate or compliance with that. >> you asked a white house official, david seamus, how many people have signed up successfully? >> they still won't answer. >> they say they'll answer in a month's time. >> about a month, in mid-november. there's supposed to be a briefing in cms. i'm sure they'll give the same stock answer is that they're not releasing this. at the same time, states like washington are releasing this information. and they're having what is probably dramatically higher level enrollments than the feds are. >> if not enough people sign up either because of this or because of sticker shock, it implodes. >> the whole thing collapses. >> the whole thing is based on having a large risk pool. >> and nonaverse selected risk pool. >> exactly. >> and i'll throw in one last point here is the technical delays have led to something a lot of people haven't paid attention to like we haven't so far, but there's been a delay in the spanish language enrollment. if you can only speak spanish,

you can't enroll at all online which is a serious problem. >> wow. i still -- i was able to enroll. i was not able to actually pick a plan because -- >> you could get into the website? and you registered? >> yeah -- yeah. it took a while. i had to close a browser, reopen -- >> what you see is not one specific area. every step of the way, there's been repeated problems. >> but you couldn't buy a plan, ultimately? >> i didn't get that far. i couldn't open the provider list. that was a problem. >> right. >> anyhow. to be continued. >> to wit. >> yes. all right, folks, sue, down to you. >> thank you all very much. let's take a look at how the market is performing right now in precious metals. we've had a pop in the gold market today. right now we're up $16 on the trading session in gold. about 1.25%. some of the other precious metals have been performing to the upside as well. in terms of interest rates, let's take a look at how the bond market is performing. we have seen interest rates trending to the down side in today's trading session. a lot of people are watching the

bond market very closely on the trading session. right now the ten-year note is at 2.52%. that ten-year note quote is the same as yesterday. that is not correct. it's 2.52%. that's today's bond report. you're up to date. so when it rains, it pours, it seems, especially for jpmorgan. jpmorgan may be forced to cut a deal with the feds to avoid criminal prosecution over its handling of accounts related to bernie madoff. the ponzi king spoke to our scott cohen about that very topic. that's coming up next. plus, they call him the bishop of bling. the vatican expelling a german bishop over a $40 million renovation of his residence. you have to see it to believe it. and we'll show it to you. and the next chapter in the da vinci code. this is not a book or a movie. it's real life. and it is unfolding right now in italy. stay tuned. (announcer) at scottrade, our clients trade and invest

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welcome back to "power lunch." check out the maker of home generators, reporting third quarter earnings that easily beat street forecasts on strong sales. this was in the wake of

hurricane sandy which hit the jersey shore on october 29th of 2012. the company also raised its sale core forecast for the full year. so tyler, those shares on the move to the upside. back to you. thank you very much. ford better than expected third quarter net raising its profit and auto operating forecast. the automaker showing signs of global strengthening. there you see the stock up 33 cents. pulte group higher. and a tale of two airlines. southwest matching street estimates for the third quarter but saying it sees a strong holiday season on falling fuel costs and rising airfares. united continental posting weaker than expected on lower revenue. thank you very much. more jobs as we reported for jpmorgan. "the new york times" says the authority. the ponzi king himself has strong opinions about jpmorgan,

and he shared them with our senior correspondent, scott cohn. good to see you, scott. what has bernie madoff told you? >> as you know, sue, we have been in contact on and off for a little more than a year now, actually. and a lot of what he's said about jpmorgan and the other banks is off the record, but he did send me an e-mail back in february that we reported on that is the most on point in terms of what he says jpmorgan did. and he always says he acted alone, but that others were complicit. he said, "you should be aware that i have continued to offer picard information concerning the complicity of the banks. i have little doubt that the information i could provide would clearly demonstrate the vital role my major banks played. in the carrying out of my fraud, including their role in handling the accounts of my major customers." you can't think of madoff and banks without jpmorgan chase

because the main account that funded the whole ponzi scheme was a chase account. and we should say, sue, that chase has always said that they were a victim along with everyone else. they were fooled. but others, including picard, say the bank knew or should have non. >> so has irving picard picked up on the information that madoff has supplied to you, and what has he done with it, if anything at all? >> well, picard has been on jpmorgan's case long before madoff was e-mailing with me. and picard has actually filed a suit that's been since thrown out. he's now appealing it to the supreme court. but he wants some $20 billion in damages. that has not held up. and as we said, it's going to the supreme court. and he's hoping that they'll hear it. the nut of that suit, the statement that while numerous financial institutions enabled madoff's fraud, jpmorgan chase was at the very center of the fraud, and thoroughly complicit in it. that's picard's words. but madoff has always kind of been of the opinion that picard

was handling it the wrong way. was maybe biting off more than he could chew. that it would never really get at what madoff claims is the complici complicity. and that was in knowing these accounts were there, in handling many of the accounts of customers so that if they didn't know, they certainly should have known or were in a position to know. >> well, that may be changing right now, given what's going on, scott. thank you very much. appreciate it. ty? all right, sue. the "power house," we're going to travel across the country to another top real estate market. today we are in the city where scott cohn was yesterday, detroit. find out how much home your money buys you in the area of the motor city. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 trading inspires your life. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 life inspires your trading. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 where others see fads... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 ...you see opportunities.

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welcome back to "power lunch." check out arctic cat whose stock is melting away. the makers of snowblowers and

atvs reporting weaker than expected quarterly earnings. this amid weakness in north america and europe. as a result, it said full-year he werings would be at the low end of its prior range. sue, back over to you. >> dom, thank you. in today's "yahoo! finance question of the day," we asked carl icahn putting more money into apple, but do you follow his lead? 15% say yes, he's a genius. 41% say no, i won't. 15% says it depends on the stock. and 29% say icahn schmi ichlsch do my own research." mandy? >> it feels as if carl icahn is changing the rules of the activist game. it does seem twitter is his new favorite medium, but what if you're not on twitter? how fair is this for all investors? we'll discuss that. and also ryan has just come back from energy boom time usa,

texas, north dakota. it really seems like the right time to invite boone pickens on the show to see how sustainable he thinks this boom is. also, main street and wall street don't necessarily agree on what stocks are hot. we'll look at the divergence and what they do agree on. lots more coming up at the top of the hour on "street signs." back to you on "power lunch." "power house" time. this week we go to the suburbs of detroit. jenny lynn is a realtor with century 21 town & country. the overall stats. these are september numbers. median sale price, $125,000, 6,235, days on the market, 54. our first listing, 39641 edgemont grooif, stdrive, sterl heights. $2,000 in taxes. only 1,405. tell me about the neighborhood first and the house second. zmoo this area, sterling

heights, is a hot area. it's where every young person wants to be. your first-time homebuyers. this is a ranch. it's hardwood floors. and it's centrally located to detroit. so it's close to shopping, employment. it's pretty much a really great area to be. and at that price, you can't beat it. for a first-time homebuyer. >> that certainly is a reasonable price for what looks like a tidy little home there. let's say i work downtown at the gm building. how long would it take me to get there? >> 20 minutes. >> second listing. auburn hills, listing for $364,900, $5,000 in taxes, four bedrooms, 2,981. that's a nice neighborhood. tell me about this house. >> yeah, this is a great neighborhood of auburn hills. it has a wonderful school district. it's close to the expressways. downtown rochester. it's just a great community.

tons of families. and it's really desirable. people -- people are scouting this area to find a home in there, and they sell quickly. >> that's what $364,955 buys you in auburn hills. let's move on to the third one. and i'm interested here. it's at 214 castell avenue in rochester. it's asking $619,000, $7,000 in taxes. three bedrooms, three full and two half baths. about 3,000 square feet. the other house is roughly the same size, has an extra bed, and it costs a lot less. why? why is this one priced where it is? >> well, we're talking real estate here. this is downtown rochester where everybody wants to be. the house has a beautifully finished lower level. it's custom built. and builders are building again in there. and you cannot build this house with the quality that it is in our market today in downtown

rochester. >> so this is an older house. >> it's a hot area. >> it looks like an older house, am i right on that? >> this is a 2006. >> oh. not old at all, then. no. >> no. no. >> not old at all. >> it's got granite throughout. it's got custom mouldings. it's a beautiful home in a beautiful neighborhood of downtown rochester, close to all the walking trails, parks, schools, you name it. it's beautiful. >> i'm doing my research here. they look very nice. as they say, it's all location, location, location. so if you get that downtown location, you're going to pay for it. jenny lynn, thank you. >> oh, yeah. thank you. >> appreciate it. good luck. >> you're welcome. take care. >> sue, down to you. ty, coming up, he's the most talked-about and the most elusive street artist in the world right now. angelina jolie and brad pitt have even bought a piece of work from him worth over 1 million bucks, but who is he? nobody's seen him. that's coming up. plus, they call him the bishop of bling. the vatican expelling a german

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half the value of their holdings are gone. they've begun coverage of this chinese mobile internet company with a strong sell rating block in his report, calls the company a, quote, massive fraud. the stock has been halted for trading four times today because of those large downside moves. so overall, sue, it's been a bad day, nq mobile, watch those shares. back over to you. >> yikes! down 57%. dom, thank you very much. this, i think, we all might agree is the story of the day. for centuries, it has been forgotten, but now sue sectione of an amazing piece of art by da vinci are being recovered in milan. restoration artists have just begun work on a da vinci mural found inside the walls of an ancient court. it is believed the artwork was done in the late 1400s. so far the work crew has found a monochrome of a section of a huge tree root in a rock.

the duke believed to live in this structure is also believed to have commissioned da vinci to paint "the last supper," which obviously is one of the great works of the world. pretty amazing, ty. >> really something. look at that. fabulous. fabulous. got to go back to milan. "power rundown" time, robert and michelle are here. folks, welcome. first let's talk about the vatican, suspending a senior member of the catholic church in germany known locally as the bishop. bling. pope francis expelling the bishop near frankfurt for reportedly spending about $42 million on renovations to his personal residence. you think that's a bit lavish there, robert? >> you know, by my standards, ty, not really. you know, look. i think it's easy to, you know, make fun of this example, but i think what's great here about the catholic church, particularly under this pope, is he is creating more transparency around the finances of the

church. and this is probably a result of a lot of what they're doing with the vatican bank and looking more into the finances of the church. the vatican bank publishing its first report ever on where that money goes and who has it. so i think this is really a good change with more transparency in the catholic church. >> michelle? >> i think it's great that they're going to finally practice what they preach. they supposedly have talked about austerity and living without. historically, we haven't necessarily seen that from the catholic church. >> yeah. let's move on to something a little closer to home. conde nast going to end its internship program next year. this after the publisher was sued by a couple of former interns, claiming they were paid below minimum wage. many other companies have faced similar suits. so do you think interns, michelle, should be paid in the first place, and does this have a chilling effect on kids trying to get experience and don't really care whether they get paid? >> no, they should not necessarily get paid. i understand some think it's unfair so some kids have to get a job maybe waiting tables, et cetera. the fact of the matter is the reason interns don't get paid,

they don't contribute that much. they're there to learn. you spend a lot of time teaching them. it's an exchange that happens. it's the whole issue of the minimum wage in general. whenever you have a minimum wage, it leads to higher unemployment. what's going to happen here? you're going to have fewer interns. >> absolutely. >> it's not going to happen. it's the same thing with minimum wage. people who don't actually produce enough, aren't productive enough to be worth it, they don't get a job. >> robert? >> i'm going to take completely the other side of that, tyler. my first internship at "the boston globe" in 1989, you know, we had a lot of bylines that summer. if you're good enough to be an intern, you're good enough to contribute, and you're good enough to get paid. and i was paid for that internship. i believe every good intern should be good enough to get paid. >> all right. well, interesting collision of views there. graffiti artist banksy has made his mark all over new york city, stealthily installing his artwork right in the middle of the night. there's one. i happen to know this location, it's the hustler club. >> how do you know that location? >> i recognize the artwork down there.

>> sure. >> he's posted proof of it on his website the next day. it's on a metal door of the hustler club there in midtown. he put it up just last night. the artist creating lots of buzz. so is there a marketing genius? i like the work there, right, michelle? >> yeah, because he's obviously waiting for a woman that he met the night before who he's sure is in love with him. i'm sure he wants to give her flowers. sploo exa >> exactly. this guy is certainly -- he's anonymous, robert. >> yeah. and this is a great piece. what i love about the hustler piece, guys in new york everywhere can now tell their girl friends and wooiz that they're going to the club to look at the artwork. >> all right. folks, thank you very much. three of the biggest winners in today's trading when we come back.

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as we close up "power lunch," standing right behind me are all the guys waiting for nq mobile which dominic chu told us about earlier. it's been halted several times on the way down in today's trading session. they just opened it up about ten seconds ago. and the last trade, it is getting a teeny bit of to the upside, and it's now down 58% on the trading session right now,

under some very heavy selling pressure as they try and figure out what to do with the stock as we get closer to the close. so nq mobile, take a look at that chart, down 57% on the trading session. so that will do it for us on "power lunch" as we close out this trading session. ty, up to you. >> sue, see you when you get back to the ranch here. "street signs" begins right now. and welcome to "street signs," everybody, your hot topics today. apple shareholders are loving carl icahn with a $400 million paper profit, though, in just a couple of months, is it fair for the average investor about these tweets? we're going to dig into it. how saudi arabia essentially guaranteed the u.s. oil boom will continue. boone pickens is here to discuss what i'm calling the saudi paradox. and while you twist and stuff yourself into a coach seat seemingly built for no real-sized human being, the airlines are raking it