up just a fraction on the trading day by a percent but nonetheless across that 1800 mark earlier. precision cast is up 3.5%, abercrombie fitch, up 2.25% and almost a half a percent gain for jabill circuit. >> that will do it for "power lunch." >> "street signs" begins now. ♪ there must be a lot of love out there because we're being lifted higher and higher. the dow powering through another big round number. what, if anything can stop this run? your other hot topics on "street signs," did we just get a big claw about the future of an apple tv? a small deal that they reportedly made that may have big-time implications. if you're buying a video game system we duke it out with the

playstation 4 and xbox. starbucks you not happy with charbucks. the fight, 12 years long, just ended, mandy. >> let's take a look at those markets. psychological milestones being broken today. the dow above 16,000 and the s&p earlier on cracking the 1800 mark, currently at 179 9. let's get straight down to bear stearns at t-- bob pisani at th nyse. does that bring more money in according to the traders on the floor or do we need to pay attention to the warning signs out there that a correction may be foot? >> both. it's bringing in more money. the first time in a long time we've hit milestones. we hit 15,000 the world did not explode but we've been seeing steady inflows throughout the year and good numbers in september and october in terms of inflows. nonetheless the world is full of people that are worried there's bubbles everywhere. we talked ate this morning. inflows in the stock mutual funds are strong, they see a

bubble, margin debts at record levels, the vix near ten year lowes. that's good news. all this worrying is good news because it still prevents some from coming into the market. we're still very data and fed dependent. bill dudley head of the new york fed made a comment here that the job market was improving an the dow lost some of its steam, sitting at the highs of the day and dropped down here. that's good news, the jobs market is improving, but dudley sounding a little hawkish was enough to move the markets down. back to you. >> all right. bob, thank you very much. and on the back of those comments do not be fooled as we head into the holidays. this is a big week for the stock market. we've got a stocking full of economic data here, a cornucopia of fed speak over there and on wednesday it may be a flock of turtle doves. we have the fed speak earlier today. you heard bob talk about bill dudley i'm out of christmas theme puns. >> i'm collecting a buck every christmas cliche sullivan.

>> to the taper jar. >> fair enough. >> herb greenberg is here, jetted in in san diego on the concord this morning. welcome. >> thank you. glad to be here. >> i thought he was rudolph with the red nose. talk about what pisani was talking about, he's upbeat on job growth and on growth in 2014 and 2015. he sees the fiscal drag easing, better economic growth abroad and sxhik fueconomic fundamentae united states improving. he did sound dovish saying there could be a gap in time between the end of quantitative easing and any rise in rates which would be further off saying the fed won't necessarily raise rates at 6.5% unemployment. hawk philly fed president charles playser saying the fed should cap the amount of quantitative easing it does. that's part of the fed speak we have. we still have minneapolis left, evans an bernanke, cpi, retail, biz inventories. inventories important.

fomc minutes on this show at 2:15, claims on thursday, philly fed survey and powell and bullard as well. 2.5% was actual we did in q2. q3 is estimated to be revised up to 3.3% on the back of better inventories. but then we go down to 1.5% in the fourth quarter because the inventories are expected to roll off down to 1.5%. just very quickly, i need to bring you the other musical reference here. queen janet approximately, this is from jpmorgan, a bob dillon song, consider the difference in background between volcker and greenspan or between greenspan and bernanke, viewed in that light bernanke and yellen look like they were separated at birth. >> policy wise, yes. certainly not looks wise. i think a beard on yellen would be creepy. >> q3 is the estimate now but going down to 1.5 but we have lower oil prices. >> 1.5% growth stinks.

>> lower oil prices and consumer spending could be 3% in the fourth quarter only going to get that expected rolloff in inventory. >> larry summers had an interesting speech a couple days ago, basically you get to a point when interest rates are so low rich hoard money and don't spend. >> that's a concern. and we actually covered that speech live on cnbc and one of the things -- >> i probably should have known that. >> that's cool. >> i'm not -- i do a lot of stuff. >> i just read the text. >> i know so you don't have to know, sully. he talked about a period of time of a long-term depression like period of time, 2% growth and he says anybody that talks about saving and reducing fed quantitative easing is on the wrong side of what's needed here. >> as you've been saying, dudley says he does not see asset bubbles right now but this week's baron's covering says it all, bubble, question mark? does today's market milestones provide more evidence of a

bubble and if so, when could it burst? bring in matt mccormick and david salby. i'm going to get to you. bob pisani said it well, that even the slightest of hawkish remarks can take the market down a tick when we are at such lofty levels. by the time we're sitting down, with all of the data do you think we're going to be higher or lower according to the sentiment? >> higher. >> a little higher because i think the fed is through their words an actions trying to keep people in risk assets, not going to be tapering, you know, i believe this month, they're going to try to keep the market higher and push people into lower, lower quality stocks it seems, mandy, that's my concern and agree with the sentiment of the baron's article, the netflixs, facebooks, teslas, twitters, remind me of '99 or '07 and people should be cautious on the expensive low quality names without dividends. the market will trend higher.

>> what about you, david? >> i think if you read the baron's article in its entirety half defended that valuations, particularly among stocks that are generating good cash flow, are not stretched. they're not stretched it compared to the highs of in october of 2007. they're certainly not anywhere near stretched to what we saw at the end of 1999 or march of 2000. valuation matters more than any other factor and from a valuation standpoint the market still looks appealing to me over the balance of this year, more importantly over the next couple years. and when you combine that with investor sentiment still i think having a mistrust of stocks after 2008, and even 2002, and that company simply just show better capital discipline, on their use of cash flow, increasing the dividends when i roll those three important factors into one, tells me that i want to be an owner of this market. >> okay. herb greenberg, two things here. there's two things that sort of

bother me about this discussion. we in the media like to make things sort of like it's either yes or no. this is not a binary outcome. because stocks are up and maybe they are overvalued doesn't mean they're in a bubble. we could slowly come down or trade sideways for the next five years. 1970s, we had this, but we ended it with only a 1% or one-point gain in the dow. talk about that but also how can we discuss valuations if we don't know what the economy is going to do next year. if we grow at 1% the market probably is overvalued. >> back to the bond market and if the bond market is a price we like we are -- there's a separation there from a bond market and stock market. >> the bond market will pop up like ground hogs and vigilantes will come back stronger than they have been. >> a phone call the other day from a broker in texas, louisiana, had he's pulling his hair out because he's talking about the way we talk about it it is a bubble, isn't a bubble and looking at valuation and i say no, it is a bubble, as has been mentioned here, mentioned in the berns article as you --

baron's article, a bubble in specific stocks. >> right. >> but, but it's also a bubble right now because it adds to it in ipos and many of these are ipos coming through the jobs act, not companies that normally would have gone public. >> but my point is, matt, if we grow at 4% next year, and i hope we do, i doubt we will but the market is probably undervalued. if we grow at 13rs next year the market is overvalued. >> no way we're growing at 4%. you're drinking too much eggnog, brian. >> that's later. >> it's still very much i think getting better but not off to the races yet. i agree with david when you look at the netflixs of the world or amazon, any way you want to cut it that's expensive. i like companies with dividend growth. take risk off the table if these expensive names go to an intel trading with a 4% yield. go with companies that are needs not wants that haven't had the fed ion to used euphoria since january of 2012 it that have reasonable valuations that are

higher quality that can do better if volatility increases. i don't think we're going to hit 4% gdp but i want to be in companies that pay me to own them if volatility increases. >> very quickly, david, because you are a bull on this debate, which companies would you own? >> well, just as a few examples, be aerospace, which is i think winning on designing interiors, other products for the aerospace industry, family dollar, which is i think making significant strides in growth, particularly on the west coast there's another name, trinity, which is a smaller company name, that's doing very well on the energy infrastructure side. those are all names that frankly lean to the cyclical side but they're importantly generating cash flow growth and i think the valuations are more compelling than not. when i roll all that in again those are names i want to own and speaks well to the overall market. >> matt and david, thank you very much for joining us. herb, don't go anywhere. >> on deck proving yet again this show is a not just entertaining, it is educational. we have a lesson in how to tell

the difference between a value stock and a value traing. >> later on, herb as we can see is in the house, raising a big red flag on twitter. plus the hottest it tech toy for gadget geeks this holiday and one lawsuit that starbucks did not have the grounds to stand on. >> yeah. >> that's all ahead when "street signs" returns. bny mellon combines investment management & investment servicing, giving us unique insights which help us attract the industry's brightest minds who create powerful strategies for a country's investments which are used to build new schools to build more bright minds. invested in the world. bny mellon.

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the markets are once again all time highs but before you break out the bubbly, take a look at what you're invested in. dominic chu looking at value versus value traps in this market. traps is something we always want to avoid. >> always want to avoid those. a big question, right. when is a stock compelling enough to be a buy as a value stock and when is it that trap if you will. a stock down, it's going to stay that way sometimes. those are the traps. i pose that question to joel forteny, he manages the principal global mid cap fund and joel says a value stock is one where the company has an underperforming record versus its pierce, but has a -- peers but has a line to grow sales and profits with new ideas or innovations. a value trap is a company that trades at a discount for a reason because they have trouble generating profits and dim prospects on few products. on the good value stock side of things, forteny likes and owns

shares of video game maker activision and says it's going through uncertainty about how it will do as stand-alone company after buying back a huge stake from vivendi the previous owner and also they're launching games and content for the first time for a first gaming console upgrade in seven years. he says the valuations compelling trading at an estimated price to earnings ratio below its historical average and the average of the industry. forteny is staying away from abercrombie & fitch. says the teen retailer failed to produce a credible plan to turn things around, but this track will become a great value stock pick if it can show better products and a shift in consumer preferences towards or back towards its brand. that's the reason activision versus abercrombie & fitch a tale of two stocks. >> guys like jim talk about this because a stock is cheap does not mean it's a good deal. >> cheap for a reason. >> right. >> in a declining business, margins stink, whatever. >> and they become to many value

stocks but i would say when you take a look when you mentioned, i was going to say, take a look at the short interest in those stocks that you think are value stocks versus value traps and ask yourself if there's a big short interest why it's there. i want to say on abercrombie which is interesting, you know, as they pump that stuff out of the store that odor it keeps people from going in because it stinks up the mall which is why until they get rid of that it will not ever be a valued stock. >> i can't go there because i can't stand the sight of seeing the 20 something late teens perfectly cut models. >> no match for you. >> i can't wear them. i mean -- i just -- i can't fit into those clothes. >> you don't have a six-pack, you have a case. >> i have a keg. >> you know what done lap's disease is? >> serious in the south. my belly done lapped over my belt. >> herb, your take as well. becoming the latest firm to slap a sell rating on twitter. you recently wrote about this as

well in the onslaught of sales we've been seeing on this stock post-ipo. >> you want to see the stock get pummeled if you own it. sounds counterintuitive but you want this thing to get back to a real sort of like i say a stock market -- the stock market real world. because you want it to be -- you want the company to be able to operate without the constant fear when you're priced for such perfection you will get walloped and be damaged goods. that's the point i made on the street.com piece on this. >> sitting at 41.56 at the twitter ipo price of 26, still doing well considering it only went -- >> absolutely. herb is still here. take a look at another company everybody likes to talk about, that is apple. apple shares down a touch today to about $523. but still up nearly 3% over the past month and nearing its high for the year. let's bring in in researchers chris caseo, welcome, interesting story out that apple may be buying a company called prime sense, a company nobody

has heard about but they make a key part of the kin next motion sensor for the xbox. we don't know if it's true. it's a report now. as soon as i read that story my thinking was, if it's true, this is a predecessor to a motion control for an apple tv. am i taking it too far? >> well, that would certainly be the likely conclusion you draw if the story was true. we don't know if apple is coming out with a tv but that was the sensor used in the kin next. it wouldn't necessarily have to just be used in a tv. you could adapt that for on a tablet and the guys at apple are good at designing new technology and next things. not sure what they would be able to do with that. >> investment recommendation perspective, $625 price target, optimistic on the company already, would it change your take on the company even more to the positive or is it just a little nugget of news? >> i think it's a nugget of news. i think having that next category and tim cook of course

on the last conference call alluded to that, they not only have new products over the in exyear but new categories of products as well, and certainly that's where the speculation begins. is it going to be a tv, a watch, something else, we don't know. but having that new product category is certainly important for them. >> and also, you're looking forward to the iphone 6 which should be coming out next year. i believe according to you, it could have a number of technologies that are not currently in the iphone 5. to what extent could those be a game changer? >> well, i think when you take them as a whole, they would be a game changer. the things we're talking about are, you know, a faster processor, faster wi-fi. one of the things that is most widely speculated is a larger screen size which is very important for apple because i think they leave a lot of market share on the table because so many of their competitors have a larger screen. one of the things we talk about is a faster device that talks to the network to increase the download speeds and make more

efficient use of the network for the carriers. all of them together are very important. and, you know, a lot of these features already found in some competitor phones and we've noted is apple really tends to wait until the technologies are just right before bringing them out. and when they do bring them out it creates the upgrade cycle that people want the new phone. >> chris, thank you very much for your thoughts. what do you think about this? >> the one issue we've been raising over the past year and since then is even with the new phones when you get to that point where the wireless carriers say we'll do away with the premium, we have in a subsidy for apple and what impact would that something you have to always keep in mind given there is a -- there's the difference between some of the phones is not considered that great by many. >> that's true. >> very true. >> all right. how do you grill a virtual currency? d.c. lawmakers are about to find out because bitcoin or representatives or fans of it are heading to capitol hill. >> later on, it is game on for

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take a look at bitcoins, 670 bucks, i guess that's how you say it, $670, up huge again today. this as lawmakers are about to kick off the first congressional hearing on how to regulate the virtual currency or get a lesson in what it is and how it works because i also could use one. to mary thompson. my point, i get the concept. how does a virtual currency get grilled on capitol hill? that's as you said, going to be a little bit of education that happens today on clapitol hill s lawmakers look into the hows, whats and whys of the digital currency what we're seeing is currency like bitcoin moving into record territory as more investors buy into the virtual world and retailers start to accept currencies like bitcoin as payment. the balance here today is investors or congress wants to focus on how you regulate digital currencies without

diminishing the promise that they hold. pro ponenses say that promise would include financial inclusion for millions if not billions of people who don't have access to either banks or cash. while making it faster and cheaper for money to be transferred between merchants and consumers. prepared testimony today point out the digital currencies have become criminal's preferred form of money because of the anonymity they provide and a lack of oversight. makes it easy for them to launder money, evade taxes or pay for drugs and other illegal goods and services. digital currencies a lot have intermediaries like banks or credit card companies and makes it kif cult for law enforcement to detect fraud. virtual currencies like bit coin aren't backed by government or commodity. created by computers, that solve problems to increased supply and bitcoy coins. their value determined by

on-line exchanges. all based on supply and demand. many applauding this innovation and say there's promise but today's question is how do you regulate this virtual world. >> kind of a complicated question with not a answer. basic things because brian's point is well made. a lot of us don't understand, for example, how i would use bitcoin and why i would want to use bitcoin. is it secure or not secure? can you answer the basic questions for us. >> how you use it is how you use cash to some extent. what you do you a bitcoin wallet on your smartphone and buy bitcoins by transferring money from your credit card or bank account and then in this virtual world the people that accept bitcoins virtual retailers or brick and mortar retailers accept it as well and wave your smartphone linking your wallet to their bitcoin application.

that's how the transfer occurs. the security remains in question. bitcoin advocates argue it's secure because of all the computer programming that's gone around it but essentially keep in mind in a number of people's wallets have been hacked and it's not quite as secure as everyone might make you believe it to be. some of the same risks you are in transferring question. >> i'll stick to my cash and maybe i can get some bitcorn. >> i'm like six ears to the bushel. i just want to say one thing here, talking about the value of bitcorn and henry has this great quote of business insider says folks, $666 for bitcoin is no more unreasonable than $90 or million dollars or one cent and stop thinking of it just now as being outrageous. >> also the number of the devil, i'm sure no connection. gasoline prices slightly up. >> we have to move on. you could argue bitcoin, the same as the u.s. dollar once we

went off the gold standard. exchange a piece of paper for a nugget of gold. now the paper only worth what somebody thinks it's worth. i understand what they're trying to do with it. right? >> right. but -- >> federal government does not want another currency. >> we won't be going from a dollar to bitcorn as opposed to going back to the standard. >> pay for your flight home with bitcorn. >> gasoline prices slightly higher over the weekend but we found the cheapest gas in the nation. to sharon epperson for today's pump patrol. >> the national average price for regular gasoline has increased for the past six days in a row. at $3.21 a gallon we are now looking at prices that have risen about three cents a gallon on average over the last six days and that's due to supply snags at major refineries. gasoline prices are falling in many parts of the country. seven states now have the average price of gasoline in their state below $3 a gallon, oklahoma, city is where you can find the cheapest gasoline prices in the country right now.

$2.65 a gallon. good news for everyone and that is that the average price in every state is now below $4 a gallon, that includes hawaii. this is the first time that's happened since january. that's today's pump patrol, back to you. >> thank you very much. up next an ep ing battle of the d epic battle of the software gods and cloud. if you had to buy one of those stocks which one should it be? >> later on when you hear the word charbucks what do you think some let's be honest? the question was at the center of a decade plus long lawsuit. all those details when "street signs" returns. mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971.

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let's get into street talk right now. vitamin shoppers stock number

one. >> added to goldman sachs, the stock up $2.5%. goldman boosted their price target to 65 from 59. still see about 20% of upside. they said the industry's track record for growth and momentum and acceleration in same-store sales at the vitamin shop which has a p and and e which must be good. >> downgraded from underweight to equal weight at morgan stanley. >> stock down to $15.88. target price at 13. that's about 2 and change almost 3 bucks actually below where the current price is. they said they like the story long term. stock's come too far too fast. saying sell n individual ya because our price target is below. >> american electric power, pop from morgan stanley. >> up 1%, upgraded to overweight from an equal weight. their target on aep to 52 from 44. see about four -- 375 upside or so. the stock has had a good run the

last couple months. >> we've got a big landowner getting an upgrade. >> not a name we talk about very much. it's jacksonville, florida, based, seventh largest private landowner in america, own about 2.2 million acres, upgraded with a price target of 52, that stock at 44. they see a pretty good amount of upside left. the stock had a huge drop. >> look at that. last couple weeks. >> last couple weeks. they're trying to come to the defense of rayioner, a forest company. if you believe in housing and lumber, that's the story there. 130,000 people are expected at the dreamforce 13, san francisco based event designed to showcase sales force.com's cloud computing abilities. and sales force stock has been a dream for investors up 34%, compared to just 5% growth for oracle. although they are different companies, right. oracle more of a databased

company that they do get lumped together a lot. which is the better buy? start talking numbers, technicals, andy, editor and publish her of the bush upset. carter of oppenheimer. will it keep outperforming oracle? >>. >> sales force is interesting. a whole relationship between oracle sales force and even companies like work. sales force was started by executives that left oracle, work day started by executives who left people soft after year racle bought them and started work day. the reason i bring up those two epps compani companies they're cloud guys. whereas oracle is still kind of the old school, software on-site at the company's site. that's why oracle is underperforming and sales force is taking off. outperforming not only oracle but really done well. >> before we get to carter on the technicals oracle is a databased company primarily, more of an annuity, can say cloud or whatever, but oracle

i'm not saying this insultingly to oracle, more of a consistent revenue stream company, or sales force, you're buying growth. oracle buying the annuity of the data base business. >> well, actually sales force competes with oracle when it comes to -- >> in a small part. >> exactly. work day competes with them on like hr and financials and other stuff. you've got companies that are going after oracle in different waysp oracle is trying to make its way into cloud computing. but let's face it they failed to meet market expectations for earnings as they failed to implement their strategy to deal with this type of competition. like, you know, getting back to the original premise which one of these guys is better. if you put a gun to my head and said which one to buy i would say pull the trigger because i don't like sales force at this price level and don't like oracle underperforming the s&p. >> wow. carter the technicals if you had to line up those two each other and pull the trigger which would you prefer. >> andrew has it right in

neither is ideal. sales force is too hot and oracle is too cold, it's just not coping, not participating. of the two we prefer oracle because of the risk/reward. in the case of sales force, something that's up from the june lows, some 60%. it shot the moon, well above trend, we think it's priced in whatever is coming by conit ster nags if you look at oracle the stock hasn't made it back to a 52-week high. likely to approach its march highs at 36, about 5% from here, so of the two, we would say limited downside risk in oracle whereas sales force again quite high. >> carter, andy, good debate. thank you very much. be sure everybody to check out the on-line edition of talking numbers, part of our partnership here at cnbc with yahoo! finance. >> and catch a huge episode of "mad money" tonight. jim cramer speaking with the ceos of sales force, ebay and drop box, all from dreamforce 2013.

that's tonight, guys, "mad money" 6:00 and 11:00 p.m. >> that is a big event. marc benioff, is a big man. he's got to be about 6'6". >> wow. >> that's going to be a big show. >> i would get a crick in my neck. if your kid is beg for an xbox or ps 4 or husband or kid, we have your gaming console for dummies guide coming you. >> a can't miss david and goliath coffee battle. starbucks losing to the little guy. we talk to said little guy coming up. but first, a big man in his own right, bill griffeth what's coming up on the "closing bell"? >> we know the dow is trying to close above 16,000, but has this market come too far too fast? we'll get both sides of the classic stock market bubble debate. we have speaks of big guys, one of the richest and savviest ipoipo investors back with us today, reportedly made $600 million on

the twitter ipo. we'll find out where he sees the next big thing in social media and how he thinks the oil boom here in the united states is going to affect the global crude price market as well. all that and more, maria and i look forward to seeing you at the top of the hour for the most important hour of the trading day on "closing bell." more "street signs" coming your way after this. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 trading inspires your life. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 life inspires your trading. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 where others see fads... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 ...you see opportunities. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 at schwab, we're here to help tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 turn inspiration into action. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 we have intuitive platforms tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 to help you discover what's trending. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and seasoned market experts to help sharpen your instincts. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 so you can take charge tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 of your trading.

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microsoft currently trading down by 1.3% following a big downgrade of b of a firm putting an underperformed rating on this stock citing transition risks the bank says an outsider like ford's ceo could bring a 10% upside to the stock but an internal pick could bring about a 10% dip. let's bring in john fortt, quite interesting, making it clear how they feel about this transition. >> yeah. i'm not sure they really know what it would signal if mulally were in there, though. i mean, there's this school of thought out there that mulally goes in for a few years and paves the way for somebody to stay longer because he wouldn't be in there that long after all the board at microsoft wants to move faster in general.

some level of change. the question for me is, how much of is bill gates willing to break. no matter who's in the ceo seat there ill with be deference to him. >> doesn't he have ibm as the template and everyone thinks he will do, he will do gersmer, whether that's the right or wrong thing the betting and why you would see a 10% upside if you were named. >> a lot of people think that but microsoft is in a different position than ibm was in its dog days. microsoft has a number of things working, just the things that aren't working, really arenaren't -- nothing is working quite as well. >> an argument may be split up the things that aren't working and that are. >> there's a strong argument. when you split something off doesn't mean you destroy it. doesn't mean you have to destroy bing. marisa mayer would be happy to take that off their happeneds. >> do you believe bing and xbox will exist as a part of

microsoft from one year from today? >> one year yes. >> two years? >> i don't know. it takes a long time to spin these off. >> 60 years. the gaming console fight is no game. billions of dollars are on the line and so far, advantage sony, says it sold more than 1 million playstation 4s in the first 24 hours. microsoft's xbox 1 goes on sale this friday. can it compete. joining us from c-net is dan ackerman. pleasure here. steve liesman who has teenage boys was confused. help him solve the purchase problem, give us the pros for both first. >> yeah. both consoles have a lot of good things going for them. seven or eight years since the last generation so a lot of the stuff we've learned about social media and how people use technology and how they share things bake that in from the beginning this time. what i like about the playstation 4 is that it really has deep facebook integration, when you turn it on for the first time you can log into your facebook klts and do a lot of

sharing there. very social. i think what microsoft is doing with the xbox is forward looking. it takes your live tv signal from your cable box and plugs it through the xbox so you don't have to switch back and forth and that's very clever. >> one that is better for dad and one better for kids some. >> well, i think both of these are for dad these days because all the people who grew up in the 70s and 80s playing the game console and my age now and still buying these boxes for themselves, remember they're expensive, 400, $500 plus games that are usually $60 each. it's a pretty hefty investment. but xbox is making a better case for being an everyone in the family home entertainment box, while the playstation 4 is more for only focused on the core gamer demographic. >> isn't that a problem for dad right now? kids don't really care so much about the boxes as much as mobile devices and things like that. doesn't that suggest that maybe after this initial pop, the market won't be as strong longer term?

>> that's exactly it. i think this is the last generation of these big, full, wait six or seven year hardware box launches we're going to see. we're used to getting hardware refreshed. every year a new ipad, mac book, something else. to wait six or seven years and buy these expensive games that goes counter what people are doing these days, playing free to play games, 99 cent games on their phones and tablets, everything is going on-line and cloud streaming. so i think this is kind of the last hurrah for the epic hardware battle. >> to that point, to what degree is a con for both of these devices that you can't play the old games from the old generation? >> that's one of the things that really disappointed a lot of core gamers the games for your xbox 360 or playstation 3 those disks will not work in these boxes whereas in previous generations they gave you a crossover period to play the old games, maybe they want to resell you some of the older games, j digital downloads or versions

and invest in stuff. it's a cost cutting move and a disappointment for both boxes. >> the whipper is? >> -- winner is? >> make me pick one -- >> you have to pick one. >> i'm going with the xbox 1 because i think that working your live cable tv signal through it is super forward looking and just saying watch tv. go back to the game and switching back and forth seamlessly is the future. >> we will tell steve liesman. >> the console connected well with him. >> indeed, it did. steve liesman is very grateful. microsoft france is transforming the hotel o in paris into xbox 1 hotel. rooms are being decorated to look like scenes from the new xbox games and the who he tell bar offering xbox inspired cocktails. the hotel will stay game themed until the new year and opens to the public on friday. it's really, really hard core gamers. speaking of hotels, we'll take you inside one hotel that's going the way of the godfather

and letting guests sleep with the fish. >> but first, starbucks versus charbucks. this was a real fight, by the way. a 12-year court battle just ended. why the court says the coffee giant did not have the grounds to stand on. the xbox 1. yeah. we're back after this. the american dream is of a better future,

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we were above 16,000 for the first time ever on the dow. it is now below that. the nasdaq has turned negative along with the s&p, which also did this morning pierce the 1800 mark. nevertheless, folks, do not worry. both indices are on track for their best year in a decade. that's the dow and the s&p. >> speak of other asset classes and because he is here, time to check in on a little bet between herb and myself. the bet launched in july. we were doing what we did at the time, just yelling at each other across the newsroom. i said coffee, he said gold. here's the bet. july to july, it's -- i have the coffee etf, the cafe, you have the gold miner gtf. we have a long way to go, but

right now we are both awful. we both stink. i'm down -- we're both down -- >> we are. >> but you're down less, so you're winning. >> and as i mentioned to you earlier in the newsroom, i said it's like a bond. it's not over until it matures. we'll see where these things f they mature in a year -- >> i hope to never be like a bond. >> i don't know how to break the news to you, brian. i think gold has a good chance here because it is so hated. it is so hated. >> you're talking about the gold miners, which are different. >> gold miners are hated more than gold. >> some gold miners have a low cost of production, they're fine. some with a high cost of production, they're in trouble. >> when you looked at the chart, it was such death. i bought it like 24.50, now 23 and change. if you want to be a contrarian, you were just pulled to it. >> here's the thing about coffee, too, and i hear what you're saying so gold. i've been negative on gold for a few years. coffee, i think at some point it will turn. i don't think our average audience either knows or cares about the price of coffee slide.

it's historic. >> they do. >> if they go to starbucks or winchell's, no one is cutting their coffee prices. it has to be pure profit margin. >> like green mountain, i would say it's a great tail wind, i say unsustainable tail wind. >> it's down 30% in a year. coffee prices are fallen off the cliff. >> when prices rise, what do starbucks do? they raise the prices. never take it back. >> genius. starbucks doesn't lose much but it lost a 12-year legal battle. they trying to get wolf bro to stop selling charbucks. mr. clark from wolf brothers. thank you for joining us. congratulations on the win. how does it feel to get this 12-year fight against a major corporation out of the way and with a victory? >> all my wife ever cared about

is getting this over with. it's been a long, hard fight and an awful lot of stress. >> you were surprised by the legal action starbucks took against you in the first place. why were you so surprised? don't you think having a charbucks blend was inviting that kind of action from starbucks? >> we've always had the same reaction. what is the big deal? and apparently the court feels the same way. what shocked us in the beginning is they're lawyer decided to throw the buck at us, which triggered our insurance coverage. and if he just filed for injunctive relief, which is exactly what they're going for now, it would have been over in a flash and would have cost starbucks hardly anything. i'm sure it's cost them well over $1 million. >> i was wondering about that, jim, because i know legal coverage is very, very pricey. sounds like you got off the hook because of a legal mistake they

made by coming at it full force, they helped you in a way fight this battle. >> absolutely. we would have never been able to afford a manhattan attorney on our own. it was absolutely impossible. the odd thing is, i had dealt with the attorney quite a bit. they were very familiar with our financial situation. it's beyond me that they did what they did. >> i imagine a legal fight with a big name company like starbucks would give you unwanted publicity, but at the same time, have you noticed an up tick in your business with people getting to know your company better through all of this? >> we thought before this started that that's one of the reasons they wouldn't want to do it because they might expose themselves to negative publicity. we thought it might help us. it has not helped us one little bit. we get inundated with e-mails and phone calls but has not

helped our business one bit in 12 years. >> we did ask starbucks for comment as well. here's the key part, as a responsible trademark owner, starbucks must take appropriate steps to protect our strengths of our marks. this approach to protecting trademark right is consistent with the company's overall strategy of upholding the integrity of its intellectual. of note, this case does not involve damages. starbucks was only asking for an injunction against the use of charbucks. thank you very much. sweet dreems undams. to a hotel's underwater oasis. life's an adventure when you're with her.

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this is the coolest video of the day. check out africa's first underwater hotel room at zanzibar. it was designed by swedish engineers with three levels. a room cost $1,500 a night. only six guests have slept in it so far. there are other underwater hotel rooms, including one in florida. this was the very first on the african continent. >> i've been wondering where to go on spring break with my kid, we're going to zanzibar, herb, you and i. we're like redford on that boat.

we're going together, you, me and the ocean. >> i'll be mixing the drinks. >> and your daughter, clearly. >> i don't like mai tais. thanks for watching "street signs". >> "closing bell" is up next. >> sounds good. hi, everybody, we're into the final stretch. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo at the new york stock exchange. history was made today once again when the dow crossed the 16,000 mark for the first time ever. >> we're not there now, though. it has pulled back a little bit. the question will be for the next hour, can it close above 16,000 for the first time in history. in fact, that's not the only round number we're keeping an eye on. the s&p this morning crossed 1800 for the first time. >> unbelievable. >> and the nasdaq, while pulling back today, is ever closer to that 4,000 level. something we haven't seen since march of 2000. >> thisar