i want to give a big thanks to marc benioff for inviting us and sharing his insights. tomorrow we'll be talking to the ceo of yelp followed by so much more. i like to say there's always a bull market somewhere. i promise to try to find it just for you right here on i'm jim cramer, and i will see you tomorrow. breaking news on the obama care website. published reports say the white house is ready to let americans bail on healthcare.gov. go instead directly to the private insurance companies to sign up for coverage. that would reportedly include people who qualify for government subsidies. well, wait a minute. isn't going to insurance companies to get your insurance the old-fashioned way? who needs obama care in the first place? and how about this for an obama care fix. what about a total repeal? even "the new york times" reminded us today of the catastrophic medicare repeal back in 1989.

might history be repeating itself? this as democratic leaders like nancy pelosi insist all is well. president obama himself about to rally his most ardent supporters and ask them to stand by the very troubled health care law. and the dow crosses the 16,000 mark for the first time, but then retreats. and the debate continues over whether this rally is a bubble. those stories and much more coming up on "the kudlow report," beginning right now. welcome to "the kudlow report." we're live at p.m. on the east coast, 4:00 p.m. pacific. let's get right to the breaking news that president obama may be turning obama care back to the insurance companies. i think where it belongs. cnbc's eamon javers joins us with the details. good evening, eamon. >> reporter: good evening, larry. the white house was on the defensive again today, arguing with reporters over these predictions made by the white

house that the website would be up and running by the end of this month, and dividing and conquering exactly how many people are going to be able to use that website at the end of the month. is that 80%? is that the vast majority? another issue that the white house is dealing with today is this question of exactly how will people be able to get on to the website. the white house spokesman jay carney saying today that they want people to be able to go through their insurance companies to get access to health care. take a listen. >> we are also working to set up direct enrollment through insurance companies so that americans could choose to enroll directly through the insurance company. and that's another method by which we can reach the same point that is the gel here. again, it's the end here that matters, not necessarily the means. >> so what they're saying there, larry, is that you would be able to sign up for obama care or for obama care type plans through the insurance company website and do an end run around healthcare.gov. the question here is what happens to people who are eligible for subsidies based on

their income level. and that still has to be worked out of. we're going to find out from the white house what they're all saying, it is all different from what they said in the past there was a route into obama care through the insurance company websites before. the question is how much of a change is the white house contemplating here if any, larry. >> eamon, all right, that's a good question, the subsidy question. i guess we'll wait and see if there is nor information. this is like deja vu all over again. the insurance companies do it pretty well, eamon. they do it pretty well. and that's why the administration i think tail between their legs is going back to the insurance companies. >> well, look. the administration is clearly on the defensive here. we saw the president last week as contrite as i have ever seen him in his presidency over the failure of the healthcare.gov roll-out here. they're clearly in scramble and defensive mode. and it's largely political, larry. the democrats who are up in 2014 who are worried very much that this is going to drag on their candidacies going into next year. it could threaten some of their

political ambitions next year. remember, the president doesn't have to run for reelection again ever, but all of his democrats up on capitol hill do, and that's the dynamic here that is causing the white house to really act to those concerns among democrats who feel like this thing is going to be a disaster for them going into next year. >> all right. you got. >> many thanks, eamon javers. we appreciate it. so as eamon said, with the number of democrats distancing themselves from obama care on the rise, is there any hope for full repeal? all right. maybe doubtful. but it has happened once before. in 1989, lawmakers quickly repealed president reagan medicare catastrophic coverage act. by the way, that was dan rostenkowski, head of the ways and means committee who had a big chunk of that. so maybe we're seeing history repeat itself with obama care. who knows. check out this video. loyal elderly democratic voters storming the car of then popular ways and means chairman dan rostenkowski, a sign of

overwhelming consumer outrage about the law's policy, changes in public sentiment left lawmakers clamoring for repeal. will democrats be willing to jettison obama care too? let's talk. here is democratic strategist steve mcmahon. jenkins of the "wall street journal" editorial board. paul howard from the manhattan institute. and joining us shortly, veteran political analyst larry sabato. it's kind of like, i don't know, deja vu all over again. the white house is capitulating. the insurance companies can do it better. this is where we started. why don't we just stay there and let the insurance companies do that? why do we need this gigantic state-run bureaucracy? >> well, the insurance companies selling obama care policies is just a stopgap. they still expect to get the exchange up and running. they're simply trying to make sure it doesn't all go kaput between now and then. secondly, the catastrophic medicare thing was a, bipartisan, b, kind of a small law. it wasn't going to discredit

anybody's political career, certainly not president reagan's. so i don't think that the obama people are going to give up the ghost quite as quickly as dan rostenkowski and ronald reagan did. >> okay. maybe. so small is a relative term. larry sabato, welcome. what do you think on this? look, i know absolute outright repeal seems very unlikely. now i get that. but you have this tremendous revolt in the house, 39 democrats. you've got a simmering revoter in the senate led by mary landrieu and some other democrats, people who are up for reelection. this is only going to grow and get worse. >> larry, i can see some of those vulnerable democrats who voted for this in the house and vulnerable senators up for reelection like mary landrieu going to the white house and demanding that implementation be delayed a year. i can see that happening. there is zero chance, absolutely zero chance that obama is going to give up his legacy item.

it's just not going to happen. and people need to get that out of their heads, because they're going to be disappointed if they set themselves up in this fashion. >> but in effect -- okay, those are good points. but in effect, let me go to paul howard on this. if the enrollment turns out to be substantially lower, paul, if they run into all kinds of trouble with adverse selection, if the insurance companies can't get the job done, et cetera, et cetera, then you have what i dare call a de facto repeal that is just waiting for the political hatchet to finally fall. >> what you could see happening is the exchange turning into high-risk pools where only the sick, the very sick or very poor get coverage, that could lead a lot of insurance to back out. but i think they're going to keep going almost zombie like. once you have the subsidies going. and don't forget about the medicaid part of obama care. 25 states have already embraced obama's medicare expansion. those states are going to fight

tooth and nail to keep those subsidies flowing. >> don't forget about the $7 million people who already lost insurance. they'd be left in the lurch whatever happens. >> there is a tremendous reduction in medicare in this thing. we're going to cover it later in terms of doctors and united health care. they're taking over $700 billion out of medicare, and a lot of that, a big chunk of that is coming from the very popular medicare advantage program in order to finance not medicare, which is going bankrupt, in order to finance obama care, which people may not like. >> and united health is already starting to say they're cutting become on their doctors. >> we're going to cover that in more detail later on. let me talk to my pal, steve mcmahon. steve mcmahon, here is what i'm waiting to see. the president should voluntarily lengthen all of the timetables to let this thing breathe. why isn't he doing that? he is still sticking to mid-december and early january and march 31st. why is that?

>> he wants to get it online, larry. this is something that democratic presidents have fought for 60 years to get this done. he finally got it done. larry sabato pointed out it's his legacy issue. it's obviously a problem, but he wants to get it done and he doesn't want to back off any more than he has to. so they're going to try to get the website problems fixed. and they're going try to move forward as quickly as possible to get people enrolled. remember, before this bill passed, people could be denied coverage for preexisting conditions. you know the whole litany of things there is a lot of good that has come from this policy. and the roll-out obviously has been a disaster, and a political disaster. but it doesn't change the underlying -- the underlying quality of the policy of getting people enrolled in insurance. >> look, i agree with some of your points here, steve. i'm just saying if the president is capitulating to the extent that they are now going to relay on insurance companies, and this is the white house that hates insurance companies. in fact, behind obama care is a strong dislike of insurance

companies where most of the public polls show that the insurance companies are pretty darn good. what i don't get, this is an honest question. if he is concerned about the things you mentioned, and you're right. you made some good points, why doesn't he give it more time to breathe? you've got bills in the senate that would do just that, the jeanne shaheen bill. they're not going to get the key website up at the end of this month. that's what we learned today. >> i think it's a good sign, larry, that he turned to the insurance industry to get people enrolled. because after all, as you point out that. >> do that well. and it's something that they can jump in and accelerate. but why doesn't he back off more than he has to? because he doesn't have to. and he doesn't want to. and he would like to accelerate getting it moving rather than decelerate and take the foot off the pedal and be facing these issues six months or eight months down the road. it's not going to get any easier going into an election year. it's better for everyone to get this -- except for republicans, of course, it's better to get

this fixed and get people enrolled and get it moving. >> holman jenkins, in one of your great columns, you call this whole mishmash a con job. a con job. can you expand on that thought for our audience who might not have read that column? >> the essential element of obama care is that certain groups have to -- are under this mandate to buy insurance. it's probably more expensive, more comprehensive, and unrealistically price fooder their actual risk pay. they have to overpay for insurance so other people can get the subsidies. and that's the con job. it's not just the young people. it's relatively affluent people who only need catastrophic coverage who are obliged to buy these more comprehensive policies. you know, that is the essence of the con job. it's an undirect hidden tax on a whole bunch of people to transfer the money to others. and people who are uncoverable because of a medical condition may be a good idea. do it openly with real tax

dollars. don't lay this mandate on people and make them buy insurance that they're unwilling to buy. >> i love that. maybe i sound like a democrat. i'm not. i'm a free market guy. but we are a compassionate society. i believe in the safety net. i always had. i learned that from ronald reagan who wanted a safety net. if you're going to help those who are elderly and sick and can't get the insurance, just help them. just give them the money. make a program. maybe it's going to be vouchers, maybe it's going to be refundable tax credits. maybe it's just going to be straight spending on them. do it. but as you say, holman, do it transparently so all taxpayers know precisely what we're doing. i just love that steve mcmahon, that would be so great. >> but that's the very nature of insurance, to spread the risk. people have auto insurance their whole lives who never get into an accident. but if they get into an accident, they have the coverage not just to protect them, but to protect the person they might have damage order automobile or the person that might have been injured in a crash that they caused. that's the nature of insurance. it's not a con job.

i don't think anybody here was fooled by the fact that when you get young people in, they're going to be subsidizing older and less healthy people. it's the nature of insurance. it's not a con job. it's what congress voted for and the supreme court upheld. >> in a voluntary market, people don't buy insurance if it is overpriced is the risk they represent. you get a much better deal from your oughter to insurer if you don't have accidents you, have you a good driving record than if you don't. the problem with obama care is it overcharges some people for the risk they represent and forces them to buy a product they wouldn't buy otherwise. and a part from everything else, we're a democratic country. if you coerce a lot of people to do something they don't want that. >> rebel, and then you have a big political problem. >> and boy are we going to see rebel. i've got to cut it off. it's a great conversation. paul howard, thank you. we're going to keep the rest of the panel live. sabato, worry going to next to talk about the sheer politics on the impact on 2013. the poll licks of obama care going forward. by the way, in an interview,

wisconsin governor scott walker says obama care will be the number one issue in 2014 and 2016. governor walker is going to be a special guest on this show tomorrow night. and as always, don't forget, free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. "kudlow report" is coming right back. but first, check out tonight's obama care comic relief. >> are you feeling depressed? run down, like you just can't win? are you the president of the united states? then you may be suffering from presidential depression. it feels like even your friends have turned against you. >> the enrollment period, it was a disaster. >> and it's beginning to affect your work. ask your doctor for paxil, second term strength.

welcome back to "the kudlow report." so is the catastrophic obama care roll-out going to be the number one issue of the next two election cycles?

wisconsin governor scott walker who will appear on this program tomorrow night says the answer is yes. he says obama care will dominate elections in 2014 and 2016. we are back with steve mcmahon, holman jenkins and larry sabato. . >> let me throw out two other words, syria and shutdown. remember a few months back, syria was going to be one of the key issues in 2014. well, that's off the table. then the shutdown that eliminated republicans from contention to win the senate. well, that's off the table unless the republicans stupidly revive shutdown when it comes back up january and february. so now we're at obama care. obama care seems like a great issue for republicans and a serious problem for the democrats. but i also know the election is

a year away, and the presidential election is three years away. >> certainly going to have, larry, just to follow up, i don't know how this is going to return out regarding all of the insurance policies and the cancellations, okay. but i think one option is that individual small group and large group business insurance plans are going to be canceled, like a steady drip, drip, drip. it maybe can be put off for a while, some of them can. you've had estimates up to 120 million people losing their insurance. it seems to me if that happens, that is just a disaster for the democrats. >> oh, it is. it absolutely. and look, they've already got -- the republicans have two great pieces of this issue to use in tv ads. the disastrous roll-out of obama care and the president's clearly misleading pledge that if you like your doctor, you're going to keep it. that's already in the can. the real question is whether

other concerns will take precedence between now and the election. if what you suggested is true, larry, if there is a drip, drip, drip, then sure, it could become the dominant issue of 2014. >> i don't know how that story will turn out. but i think that's the risk. holman jenkins, what should republicans do? >> my answer will surprise you. i think republicans should save obama's bacon. what they should basically do is create another option under obama care which is a national insurance charter free of the obama care mandates, free of the state mandates that would give lots of people opportunities to buy insurance products they actually like and are worth what they're paying for them. all these people who are going to lose their insurance on january 1 because of obama care, they could go out and find policies in this market that are very much like or even more attractive than the policies they're losing, because they would be free of the mandates, the insurers and their customers able to agree on combinations of deductibles and coverage limits and all those things that make sense for each customer.

and that would take care of a lot of the public rebellion against obama care. >> i don't see why -- you know what this is? as i listen to this national charter, i don't know all the details, maybe you don't either at this point. but, look, steve mcmahon, i just want to say right from the get-go, i asked the question here in columns and whatever why can't we, why can't i, why can't everybody be completely free to choose the health care plan they want? freedom is at issue here. obama is limiting freedom and bringing in intrusive government. and all he is doing is getting trouble. why can't we make it that simple and go through the insurance companies, just like we have for whatever, 100 years? . >> well, larry, that was a compound question. but let me just take the one i think you're asking, and that is why don't we just go back to the way it was before. and the reason i think is because there are a lot of people who couldn't get insurance in the free market before because they had a preexisting condition. >> but i'll give you that.

i'm willing to put that to you. >> so, larry, if you said to me, hey, steve, why can't you have a minimum policy that covers, makes sure everybody can get it that has certain minimal amounts of coverage, preventative care is covered and sell it on a federal marketplace or do what was just suggested and knock down all the barriers to the states? i think that would be a great idea. the problem is you have 50 state insurance commissioners who are commissions who wouldn't have anything to do. that's the real challenge. if you could put all these policies throughout and say anyone in america can buy whatever policy they want at any price they want, provided, provided that it has this basic level of coverage, i think most democrats would be happy. but you've got to make sure that everybody can get in. and the only way you make it affordable is everybody has to get in. >> it sounds like we agree. >> well, in many of these areas we do agree. i think it's a question of you howe you get this thing up and running most efficiently. >> there may be some common ground here there absolutely may

be some common ground, particularly on this freedom issue. and i don't mind some regulation light on this stuff. but it sounds like there is common ground. anyway, much more to be revealed. larry sabato, thank you very much. holman jenkins and steve mcmahon. now we have some late-breaking news on jon corzine's old firm, mf global. the ex-new jersey governor close to real punishment or even jail time? cnbc's bertha coombs has that story and much more for us. later on the show, the 50th anniversary week of the kennedy tragic assassination. we take a close look at the myth that jfk was a liberal. he was not. and he was a supply-sider on taxes and the economy and an anti-communist. just listen to this. >> the worst deficit comes from a recession. and if we can take the proper action in the proper time, this can be the most important step we could take to prevent another recession. that is the right kind of a tax

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i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there. welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm bertha coombs with this news alert. this just in to cnbc tonight.

the $13 billion settlement between jpmorgan and the justice department is official. all the issues have been worked out and will be announced tomorrow. moving on, a huge outbreak of tornadoes and strong winds hitting the midwest yesterday. eight people killed. hundreds injured, and hundreds of homes and buildings completely destroyed. the worst tornado hit washington, illinois, with winds up to 200 miles per hour. mf global has been ordered to pay money to those it injured in the collapse. it was led by jon corzine, whose bad bets on european debt caused the company's ruin. and formerer treasury secretary tim geithner has found a new job at warburton pincus. it's relatively low profile compared to some of the names on wall street that surely would have taken him on. but he didn't want to go to a company that he had regulated while he was at treasury or the new york fed before that.

because he didn't want to play into perceptions about the close relationship between the banks and the government, not to mention, as we often see in washington, that revolving door. >> you know what? i may not have agreed with everything he said. i really think that geithner is a good man. and i'm glad he got this good job. and i hope he makes a lot of money doing it. he has put in so much rough service at the fed and the government during '07, '08, '09, '10. i may not agree with him all the time, but he is a good man. i say bravo. we had many good conversations, we had some good interviews. yeah. i stick to it. sorry. i'm not always -- >> you're a good man as well. >> thanks, bertha coombs. i appreciate it very much. now have, you ever wondered why the health insurance stocks have rallied so much in the past couple of years despite all their flaw, taxes, regulation, and obama care, we have an expert with an explanation.

we'll also look at stocks as the dow did cross the 16,000 level for the first time today before coming back down a bit at the close. i'm "kudlow." stay with us, please. (vo) you are a business pro. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go.

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the dow closed at a fresh

all-time high today, touching 16,000 for the first time ever. but i want to start with a look at the health care sector, up 40% over the past year. i guess on high hopes for obama care. but now with the botched roll-out and disappointing enrollment numbers bring the health care rally to a halt. here we have barbara ryan, managing director at fti consulting. none better to comment on this, and joined by brian kelly, founder of brian kelly capital and jim lacamp, senior vp of investments at ubs. the candle power and brainpower at this table right now is totally awesome. and i am humbled by it. i'm glad you're here. bash remarks 40% year on year. somebody said since the middle of 2011 it's been up 50, 60%. why is that? what is going on here that hasn't been going on? >> very curious. i think you have to break into it two sections. one is the services side. so the insurance and the providers, right? and they have gone up this year

substantially as well, and over the last couple of years for a variety of reasons. not the least of which that there is a view that at some point in time the uninsured will come in to their coffers. we've had a big problem in the hospital side with bad debt. so there is a misnomer that people are really -- >> people show up, never pay. and the insurance industry supported obama care on the bet that they would get tons and tons and tons and millions of people. but the enrollment looks like a disaster, an absolute disaster. and anyway, the wrong people may be enrolling. so does this story change any? >> yeah. so i think you've seen more volatility in a correction in some of the services as a result of this. it's a little bit like a snake swallowing something. it's maybe a question of how long it takes, but eventually it will get there. and so i think there is a view on wall street that the enrollment will come. also, most of the large insurers have opted out of obama care and

the exchanges in the near term. so they've had rate hikes and they're not playing. so they get to sit back and wait, and then we'll be able to evaluate when looking at 2015 -- >> who is an insurer -- >> aetna, humana. >> they're out? >> in many, many states, they have opted out of the exchanges. >> so you would like them because their hands aren't going to be cuffed. >> so the market feels they don't have the downside risk, because yes, there is adverse selection in the short-run. i think the advocates of obama care would say you really have to wait for february and march. whether we will or won't remains to be seen. >> what about aetna? what about cigna? >> those too. they selected live opted out of the changes, and therefore i think the markets believes that they won't have that punishing effect. >> but the hospitals still have a problem, dobt they? because the emergency rooms are still going to be open? that's part of the law. how do they ever get paid for that? >> so i think a couple of

things. one is there are sick patient whoos ooh going to get insured through the exchanges, right? more people are going to be insured through the exchanges. and i think there is a view that the government is going to have to step in and provide subsidies to both those who provide insurance and the hospitals so in the short-run, obama care will cost the government more than anybody anticipated. >> good luck on that, as though it isn't costing us enough. last question, as a crack analyst, what is your take on it? you have got the insurance companies and the hospitals. would you buy them or sell them? >> i think at this point those stocks are probably going to be stalled at best and volatile around the daily news flow. i think where you have fundamental strong momentum is in pharmaceuticals and biotech. and they really have led the parade. 11 of the last 12 oncology drugs approved cost over $100,000 a year. >> whoa, whoa. >> so we can talk about how we're going the pay for those, but that's the fax. there is obviously no one can be

denied care irrespective of preexisting conditions. so that's a big benefit. >> i see. i want to get these guys in. i see far more claims than they thought, and i see far fewer premiums than they thought. when this thing started out. a quick snap. and i want to get you guys on the so-called stock market bubble. carl icahn, brian kelly, health care, what do you think? >> i'm with barbara. i think as a money manager, you want to sell the things that are up 42% for the year. it's fully priced in what wall street has been expecting. and i think the risk, the downside that this completely unravel is, you know, negligible at this point. why not take some money off the table and maybe go into some of the drug names or the biotext. >> you agree with that? >> i agree. but there is a demographic. if you look at device maker, boston scientific, medtronic, huge years, even though they were subject to possibly the worst penalties under obama care. >> big tax. >> i think all the companies are

going to do great just because of the demographics of the population. the key is when, and we're going to have uncertainty from time to time until this thing gets ironed out. take some money off the table when skrou the biggest movers. i love the biotext. and have you seen what the generics are doing? over the last ten days, they have smoked. >> why is that? why is that? what is the narrative behind that? >> ultimately, i think you're looking at they're going to benefit because we're going to dumb down a lot of our drug delivery systems under obama care. >> all right. but you still have breakthroughs, as barbara said. let me ask you, gentlemen, the bubble talk there is so much bubble talk. what do i know? i cursory looked at some stuff there is no bubble in commodities, none, zippo. the commodity index is down 10% year to date there is no bubble in gold, minus 26% year to date. dollar flat. in other words, if the big bubble trade that we all remember from the early 2000s, i'd see gold soaring. i'd see the dollar plunging, not

happy. now s&p up 26%, all right. multiples between 15 and 16 times. that's all i see, brian kelly. why that such a bubble? >> well, the problem is that the e part of the multiples have been engineered by bye buybacks and they have taken a lot of capital off the table. that's where people are saying this could be unsustainable. just the fact that we're talking about a bubble probably means we're not in one, just because we don't have the euphoria stage. >> that's what i think. >> right. >> i think characteristics of this market is how surprisingly strong it's been. i mean, we're not going into a double dip recession. actually, you could say that probably europe is coming out. maybe the emerging markets are coming out. china has had very good news about the economic reform. all i'm saying is i just don't see stock market bubbles at these levels at these multiples. forget the treasury rates. look at corporate rates. 5.5% there is no bubble. >> there is no bubble yet. if you look at last week's

economic indicators, 10 out of 11 came in worse than expected. at the same time yellin -- >> really? >> yes. >> at the same time, yellin goes in front of congress and says more juice in the punch bowl, more in the punch bowl. treasury yields are starting to come back down. and guess what? oil prices are coming back down. if you look at the commodity prices, they're suggesting we don't have this big global recovery because they're falling off at the same time the dollar is. so we're not seeing bubble here. we're not seeing massive global recovery. we're not seeing overheating here. >> there is a slight touch of deflation out there. >> there is. >> maybe the fed is right. >> it's not -- >> maybe janet yellen, the empress of the doves is going to be right. maybe bernanke was right. >> europe is easing. >> they're all pouring money. maybe not the drug stocks. brian kelly, jim lacamp, barbara ryan. >> thank you very much. >> because obama care is being financed by slashing medicare, especially the popular medicare

advantage program, at least one insurance company dropping thousands of doctors and hospitals are being dropped also from obama care networks. it's not a good story. forget young people still aren't signing up, and that could bankrupt this whole thing. there is a big imbalance here. we'll talk about it when we come back on "kudlow report." >> from we've seen early on that it is skewed towards older individuals 50 and above. a lot fewer under 30. and so i'm concerned about that. and over time it's clear we need to have young people, healthier people in the pool to balance the mix. and so that's one of the fundamental problems we're going to need to make sure that gets addressed as we go forward here.

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so if you're ready to see opportunities and see them through, we say: let's get to work. because the future belongs to those who challenge the present. if you like your health care system and your doctor, the only thing reform will mean to you is your health care will cost less. no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise. to the american people. if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. period.

>> all right. well, remember the promises, president obama made in the lead up to obama care. if you like your existing plan, you can keep it. well, it's not true. obama care is lowering costs. not true. premiums are rising for millions of people. and if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor, well, that's turning out not to be true either. united health care has so far dropped thousands of doctors in at least ten states from its networks. so when is it all going to stop? let's talk to dr. scott gottlieb of the american enterprise institute and nina ocharenko. nina, i hope i got your distinguished last name correct. please excuse me if i didn't. it's a pleasure to have you on the show. i want to ask you, unitedhealthcare dropping all these doctors from their networks because there is no money left in medicare advantage. that's what i understand. because they're using -- slashing medicare in its

entirety to finance obama care. is that the right story? >> if you remember back in 2010, most of this had to be financed to be under a trillion dollars. and the best ways for them to do it, instead of building up medicare and making it more solvent, they took the money from medicare, and now are shoveling it to pay for new entitlements on the low income and the exchange subsidies. so, yes, they're taking money out of medicare, not to helped me care, but to pay for their new expansion. >> well, scott, i always thought the obama-cons hated medicare advantage. too much choice. too much private sector choice. and now that they're slashing doctors from the network, isn't this going to cause a real storm, a real firestorm? >> the networks are being narrowed in the medicare advantage program. they cut about $158 billion over ten years out of the program. you do have 215 million seniors in the program. 28% of all medicare. so they're going to find some of the doctors they were accessing before aren't there anymore. this is going to be the same story with the obama care plans when people sign up for the plans, they're going to find a

very narrow network plans, and that they can't get good access to doctors. this is how the obama administration is going to hold down costs, by limiting your access to doctors and limiting your choice. >> nina, now speaking generally, not speaking necessarily about medicare advantage, but hospitals are being pushed out. somebody told me here in new york, for example, new york presbyterian is not in the obama care network. this is one of the great hospitals in the united states. other distinguished, famous hospitals around the country, you know, some of the university hospitals around colleges, people are going to be furious at this. >> and i think what is interesting is that this administration is setting it up so it looks like it's the insurance plans. they're evil insurance plans cutting providers out of the networks, raising premiums, dropping their health care plans. it's almost ready to be set up so the administration will come in for the second round to say we haven't regulated insurance enough and let's go back in by putting in price controls and more requirements and mandates on the insurance plans for what they can and cannot do.

whose price controls? price controls on medicare and medicare advantage? or price controls on all the services that will be provided? >> well, i think the way if you hear what the whole purpose of the health care law was to bend the health care costs down across the board. this isn't a silo approach. it's overhauling 1/6 of the entire economy. i don't think it's targeted at certain areas. it's an overall agenda to create some sort of a price control mechanism that is run by the federal government. >> larry, your prior guests talked about the fact that the commercial insurers haven't really played in the obama care market. the plans that have gone into this market are the medicaid managed care plans. and the reason why the medicaid managed care plans have gone into the markets in a robust way and are participating in obama care because they had the very cheap network. there is a reason why the commercial insurers are calling these plans medicaid plus, the obama care plans, because they're going to be very narrow rts that contract with very low cost providers. they're going to exclude the more expensive academic

hospitals. if you're someone who needs access to specialty care and wants to get to memorial sloan-kettering, or something like that, you're out of luck. >> it's so interesting. the charge -- among the charges against obama care was, all right, you won't get your doctor. you're not going to get your right hospital. but more to the point, nina, rationing and price controls. obama cons denied that from day one. what you are describing, what scott is describing is rationing and price controls. >> well, i think it certainly is laying a foundation. i mean, how else are they going to have skyrocketing subsidies in the exchanges? how are they going bring down costs? they're already going to have to figure out how they're going to pay the subsidies right now. i think they're going to look at instead of reducing the subsidies, i think their solution is going to be to regulate the plans even more. there. >> you go. i got to get out. i'm sorry. we're short of time. thanks, nina, we appreciate it very much. scott, thanks. now, folks, just about 50 years ago this week, president john f. kennedy was tragically

assassinated by a soviet cuban communist. of course it was tragedy. but has the truth about jfk's true political leanings also perished? he was a supply side conservative on tax policy. very strong on defense. just listen to this from his inaugural address. >> we dare not tempt them with weakness for only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed. or more on car insurance. yep, everybody knows that. well, did you know the ancient pyramids were actually a mistake? uh-oh. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you kn

the worst deficit comes from a recession. if we can take the proper action in the proper time, this could be the most important step we take to prevent another recession that is the right kind of a tax cut, both for your family budget and the national budget. resolving from a permanent basic reform and reduction in our rate structure. a creative tax cut, creating more jobs and income, and eventually more revenue. >> well, welcome back to "the kudlow report." you just heard president john f. kennedy in 1962 with his conservative answer for economic growth. across the board, top to bottom cut, in corporate and personal income tax rates. a supply-side program. in his new book, my next guest makes the case that liberal historians like arthur schlesinger have rewritten the

book on kennedy, who was actually a limited government conservative as well as a tough liner against communism. we welcome ira stoll. it's a great book. i have read it. i recommend it to everybody. now, the first books out after the tragic assassination, correct me if i'm wrong, was arthur schlesinger junior and i think ted sorenson. and they tried to bring kennedy in as some big liberal. but it wasn't true. that's what the real world proof. that wasn't true. >> that's right. it was a myth. teddy white did it in his life magazine interview with jackie kennedy too. he admitted later he edited her quite significantly. and i look at what sorenson and is lessing her took out. and that's the stuff that's in my book. and it shows kennedy who is much more conservative than the one they depict. >> is kennedy you think today, would he be democrat or

republican? >> well, he certainly wouldn't be a democrat. i think he'd be either an independent or a republican. i mean, joe lieberman, who started out as a kennedy democrat, they ran him out of the democratic party. >> actually, i've talked to senator lieberman about that. you're exactly, exactly right. supply side tax cuts across the board, ira. where do you think he got that? where did that come from? because it really was shocking, and it worked by the way. you had great prosperity in the 1960s. >> well, he got it from his treasury secretary, douglas dillon, who is a republican wall street banker. you hear a lot about these keynesian ivy league economists who advised kennedy. but dillon is an underappreciated figure. and i think dillon got it from andrew mellon. coolidge's treasury secretary. they had done that during the coolidge administration, cutting the rates, seeing the economy grow, and ending up with more federal revenue. >> and reagan quoted jfk a lot

on being a supply-sider and having lower tax rates, create growth and more revenues. let's go to foreign policy, ira. people seem to forget this. jfk made a famous speech in berlin. but that speech was a tough hard line anti-communist speech, was it not? >> that's right. and the sorenson and schlesinger books switched the order from the real chronology. they emphasized this dovish american university speech where kennedy said that americans and russians all breathe the same air. after that, he wento berlin and said anyone who thinks we can work with the communists, let them come to berlin. and that's really where he ended up. >> and the amazing thing than is reagan also gave a very tough speech in berlin, tear down this wall, mr. gorbachev, you remember? i mean, the parallels between kennedy and reagan are so fascinating, ira. and basically, let me ask you this. jfk, they've tried to make him out to be a domestic liberal. was there any truth in that

domestic policy liberal? >> you know, he gave a speech or two in favor of medicare. but it wasn't really a priority for him. his priority was free trade and the tax cut. >> well, what do you make of that? here is the connection. dot, dot, dot, jfk to reagan. sum it up for me. how does this happen? an amazing historical either coincidence or historical continuum. >> they're anti-communist. they believed in peace through strength. they believe that tax cuts lead to economic growth. and they made america confident. they made us proud to be americans. and, you know, they were optimists. and, you know, i think we can learn a lot from kennedy, you know, jfk conservative, and i think reagan got it. well could get it again today if people paid attention and burst through these myths. >> absolutely. ira stoll, great stuff. jfk conservative. we appreciate it very much. all best on the book. >> thank you.

>> sure, use him as examples. great growth in the 60s. great growth in the 80s and 90s. limited government and lower taxes. that's it for tonight's show. thanks for watching. again, join us tomorrow night. my special guest will be wisconsin governor scott walker. he'll be right here with me in studio. maybe we'll talk about jfk, and we're going to talk about 2016 on "kudlow." we'll be back tomorrow night. ♪ ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪ ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪ ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪ [ male announcer ] the beautifully practical and practically beautiful cadillac srx. get the best offers of the season now. lease this 2014 srx for around $369 a month with premium care maintenance included. ♪ i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check?

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>> narrator: in this episode of "american greed"... abraham shakespeare strikes it rich, winning millions in the lotto, and lets most of it slip away. >> i often tell people that abraham shakespeare was lakeland's stimulus package. >> narrator: with his fortune dwindling, a woman named dee dee moore steps in and promises to help protect what's left. >> i mean, he'd been in the hood all his life, and, all of a sudden, this woman come out of the blue. phew! okay? >> narrator: but instead of looking after the lotto winner, moore only looks after herself. >> everything that mr. shakespeare has ever owned now belonged to dee dee moore. >> narrator: when he goes missing, all eyes turn to her. >> they're saying that i tooa