slithered away. don't know what the big old fuss was about. actually, i'd probably freak out, too. i hate snakes. >> there you go. good video. hey, thanks for watching, everybody. i'm off tomorrow but, mandy, a whole crew. fantastic show tomorrow. please tune in. >> yep. "closing bell" is coming up next. enjoy your time off, brian. happy thanksgiving. >> thank you. you, too. hello and welcome to the "closing bell." i'm kelly evans down here at the new york stock exchange today. >> welcome aboard. >> thank you. >> she's so humble. i'm bill griffeth. i guess the nasdaq waited for me to come back today to close above 4,000 for the first time since september of 2000. >> she says we haven't closed yet. >> she says ominously. we're up 30 points. do you think it could shell off? >> we've actually rallied all

day. >> s&p back above 1800 here, so another positive day as one trader walked by and said, they're still buying stocks. >> and still trading. the rain and wind is just now starting to kick up here in new york city. it is expected to get much worse each ensuing hour. the question now, how bad will it be for thanksgiving travel and for kickoff to the holiday shopping season. we'll keep you updated throughout the show. >> and giving the slogan jersey strong an entirely new definition, online gambling is now legal in the garden state. you wonder if the sopranos would have existed if it was always the case. the ceo of the newly minu lly m website coming up exclusively. he'll try to pull himself away from the website for a little bit. >> while he spend time in the middle of it. in the markets, take a look at how we're moving. the dow up 35 point, holding 16,100. nas dashgs pretty nice rally

after we saw the social media names getting hit yesterday. the s&p 500 is doing pretty well up a quarter of a%, adding four or five points. people talking about watching 1803 level in terms of support. joining us on "the closing bell exchange," rob lutz, kimberly ross and author of the book "wealthy by design" and our own rick santelli. welcome to all of you. >> welcome, everybody. >> thank you. glad to be here. >> kim, thoughts on the market today. is this drifting higher in the absence of volume? do you see any conviction out there? what's your read on things? >> we've got seven straight weeks of up -- >> go ahead, kimberly. >> i'm sorry. seven straight weeks up on the market and we're shooting for an eighth straight week. and i just think that coupled with low interest rates, the housing numbers are very, very

good out there. better than expected. along with -- you know, we have two -- we have something like -- is it $2.663 trillion in money markets still on the sidelines from ici.org. you guys, this is just rocket fuel for the market. the markets are still going to continue upward. we don't see -- we're have positive for the end of the year. >> you know, all of you are bullish. i see that in our notes here, which sort of makes my palms sweat here. ken morery, you were looking for 16,000 on the dow. we're well above that now. now what? i mean, do you just adjust your expectations higher? or do you take profits here? >> well, no. i think the market through the end of this year, i don't see too much more upside. i see profit taking towards the end of the year, potentially good data on shopping. i think that may surprise. so, through the end of the year, i don't see too much up or down. i think 16,000 is probably about where we'll be. however, heading into next year,

my forecast for next year is dow 18,000, so i think there's a lot of upside still to come. i'll tell you where there's bearishness is. next year early if the government decides to shut down, that could put us into a recession. if that happens, we'll be selling all of our stocks on behalf of our clients. >> wait a minute. how likely is that scenario? we've been through this before and each time despite all the drama, the markets have continued to march higher. >> i think it's fairly unlikely that we'll have a shutdown. i think we're learning to manage with the dysfunction down in washington. and i'm very optimistic we'll have a ratcheting up of valuations. when i look at the market, there's four factors i look at. liquidity, earnings, growth, valuation and investor psychology.

the only one that worries me a little is investor psychology is a little more favorable today. but bull markets die on optimism. we don't have a lot of optimism yet. we have, i think, acceptance of a bull market. so, i think we have a long ways to go. i see stock values about 15% undervalued today. >> rick, i've seen ads, the end of the 30-year bull markets is over treasuries. i've heard that for five years now now, of course, but here we sit. >> there's something to be said. i do believe that the big bull market is over. but that is predicated maybe on a 138 yield for a ten-year and, of course, we could still see yields move even lower than the current 2.69. i don't think that changes the macro of that statement. as you look at a five-year chart, it could be we're going to close at the lowest level.

we haven't closed under 1.29 since the 309 of october. imagine a line connecting all those bottoms, we might slide under it. we started to lose ground, more yield after buying after some data like consumer confidence and multifamily being the star today. i'll push back against all our guests. listen, dysfunction, you can call it anything you want in the government. we currently have a health care program where employers have no idea what's going to happen. yet, the stock market continues to move higher. believe me, if you're looking to stay long stocks or questioning whether you should be short treasuries or long treasuries, you need loo no further than the federal reserve. >> i agree with that. i think the talk of tapering, the federal reserve, i see that as potentially a very big buying opportunity. i think the stock market may sell off maybe 10% on that news. i see that as buy on stocks.

if the fed is tapering, because they see strength in tapering. bonds would not be the place because the fed has almost never done something one time. it's usually a series haof thin. if they continue tapering, they'll continue that cycle. if they do that, interest rates will trend upward. i think on the tapering news we'll have buying opportunity on stocks but selling opportunity on bonds. >> kimberly, at the same time, though, a lot of people are pointing to the auctions we've had this week, almost $100 billion through thanksgiving holiday will be offered on twos, fives and sevens. it seems like the message, if you look at how low the yield is on a five-year, investors are understanding what the fed is saying this time. saying even if they taper asset purchases that's not tantamount to purchasing and not going to raise rates higher, especially on the short end of things. >> i don't think it's going to. yellen is very dovish. i think she'll continue the theme bernanke has set. the reality is, she believes

that quantitative easing is the best path to growth. until she sees that, i think there's going to be mixed messages. but they're not going to be tapering. they're basically going to be creating more liquidity, which is only going to drive stocks higher. as we said, the bond market lower. you know, the stock market is really the only place going to be -- be able to create wealth for investors. at least in 2014. i don't have a crystal ball, but that's my two cents worth. >> very good. like i said, i get sweaty palms when everybody's bullish. >> you've had sweaty palms for about 11 months then, mr. bill. >> yes, i have, as a matter of fact. thanks. see you guys later. >> let's check in on a couple of stocks that are driving this market to new highs yet again. seema mody joining us. what's popping on your radar screen? >> we'll start with some bling. tiffany, luxury retailer reporting better than expected third quarter earnings and revenue. sales in asia continue to fuel demand. as a result, tiffany raised full

year forecast. now, move over to hormel moving higher, reporting fourth quarter earnings above analyst expectations thanks to strong exports of spam. for all those on the hunt for yield, the company raised its quarterly dividend by three cents to 20 cents a share. now, let's talk about tech because google hit another record high. motorola unit started selling $179 moto-g smartphone today, a month ahead of schedule. it was another tough quarter for barnes and noble, reporting 8% drop in quarterly revenue as less people are buying books. dsw losing ground. posting weaker than expected third quarter revenue as same store sales fell nearly 1%. we end with take two enter active, maker of grand theft auto. they are buying back carl icahn's shares. you're seeing shares down 5.5%.

>> seema, thanks very much for that. now, we have about 50 minutes to go before the closing bell. as we've said, stocks staging a late day rally, the opposite of what we saw yesterday in the session. the dow's up by 35 point. couple points to the s&p. nasdaq doing okay, too. >> you do the open and the close now? >> that's right. >> you're at the beginning and the end. >> i don't want to miss any activity. >> what a busy day. while stocks surge, commodities continue to slump for the most part. when we come back, find out if there's any opportunity to buy beaten down assets for someone whose entire firm is centered around how these commodities perform. coming up. also ahead, we will discuss why hanukkah falling on thanksgiving could impact how the crucial holiday shopping season pans out. ♪ pacman fever >> what does the iconic '80s video game pacman have in common with the buy outbattle between men's wearhouse and joseph a.

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stocks may be at record high but it's been a tough go for people investing in commodities. bertha coombs with that story. >> quiet day today. certainly the stronger dollar didn't necessarily prove to be the tail wind you might have expected. nat gas today upfor sixth straight session with that cold weather socking much of the country and that storm making its way to the east coast. that's certainly adding to the demand. as far as the rest of the energy patch, a mixed picture. we did have earlier brent and light sweet crude higher, bouncing off that big plunge after the deal with iran was announced. but now we're looking ahead to inventories which will come in tomorrow. we are expected to see tenth straight week of building inventories for crude.

we will get nat gas, expecting a 7 cubic foot withdrawal in nat gas. that comes out tomorrow. bill, i know you look at what's going on at the pump. you might consider consider spending thanksgiving in minette, missouri, the cheapest gasoline in the country at $2.72 a gallon. >> it's gone up 90s cents. i do follow gasoline prices carefully. it's been up nine cents in my neighborhood in the last week. >> you circled the neighborhood looking -- how far will you drive to save -- >> i'll drive, i'll drive. >> i know you're tight. with other commodities getting hit, what else do you do with the family of funds you run are all commodities? >> the perfect question for my old friend, frank holmes, to talk about what has been a tough year for commodities as an investment.

>> overall, are commodities markets tell us inflation is for now dead, is not an issue? >> i think so. >> waiting is 10% rebalance, even though gold has been down for two years, rebalancing with 10% in gold and 90% s&p, over the past ten years you've done spectacularly well. i like that idea of just 10% weighting. we actually own tiffany in our gold fund. the bigger issue is gold pmis. when we went from 2009, regressional analysis and what happens when global pmi, that is the purchasing manufacturer's index, whenever the one-month is

above three months, you then start to get a momentum of -- in commodities. you're not seeing it as of yet, but you're seeing some commodity stocks popping here. >> frank, evidence is mounting that even as global growth rebounds this time around, it's leaving commodities behind. this is simply the air coming out of a commodity super cycle. even look at a day like today. copper underperforming. the list goes on. what do you do as a commodity fund? where do you think within this space we might actually see some rebound over the next couple of months? >> well, historically, good question about copper, strong seasonal pattern, a book written in the '30s, copper you buy in december, you sell in march. this is a good buying time. if you look contrarian point of view, many of these stocks and materials have dividends higher than a five-year government bond.

the global world is changing so much. 7 billion people and every three seconds there's a newborn baby. this is a big factor that will drive commodity prices. they're not going to collapse. they'll have short-term, big corrections but long term they have to go up. >> what about oil? we keep hearing about the change in balance of power around the world as u.s. becomes a much greater oil producer but yet prices remain higher. we're still above $120 on wti, above $100 on brent. where do you see that going? >> i just traveled. i just came back from india and i was in singapore and hong k g kong. what i find fascinating is that the price of fuel is so much more expensive in the u.s. i also find reside are packed with cars so activity remains robust. the other factor, that's key for america, low energy cost is a huge benefit to the chemical companies and manufacturing that

we're exporting to emerging markets, a higher end product whereas european chemical companies can't compete because they're paying over $10 ncf. the input cost to that manufacturing sector and energy costs as an overall component to u.s. companies gives it a huge competitive advantage. >> are there any ideas -- for people out there just saying, i'm too skeptical here of what commodities are doing, i don't believe they're going to rebound from these levels, do you have any ideas of ways to play this sector that maybe people hadn't considered or where there's tightness in terms of the supply out of the equation that could provide upside over the next few months? >> every mean reverts. ten assets, ten sectors of the s&p lagging dramatically. usually that sector rebounds. i think basic materials and energy have lagged overall the s&p's ten sectors. when you take a look at the back

drop the global manufacturer is rising, this is a leading indicator in pick up in demand for commodities. >> frank, good to see you. happy thanksgiving. >> same with you. see you later. frank holmes. >> over to seema mody for a quick market flash. >> i want to point your attention to time warner cable. shares are spiking. cox communication is interested in buying the company. comcast, parent of nbc universal, which cnbc is a unit of. in an industry that's consolidating, seems like everyone is looking at their options. >> cable is hot. we'll take a break. about 40 minutes left in the trading session with the dow up 43 point. the big winner has been the nasdaq, up 30 plus points. we're above 4,000. the first time we've closed above that since september of 2000. >> speaking of, which jim cramer

saying this is about workday on the "closing bell" yesterday. take a listen. >> workday after the bell, the most expensive stock. wday, most single highly valued stock in america. >> that was before it jumpbed today on that earnings report, up almost 13%. despite that jim saying workday is still a buy. we'll debate investing in the company coming up next. also, online gambling is now legal in new jersey. this is bad news to bookies, though. we'll speak to the head of 8 88 holdings, running the gambling website for caesar's entertainment. before global opportunities were part of their investment strategy...

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it's are taking the gloves on on workday. a david versus goliath story as they compete head to head with those like oracle and s.a.p. take a look at shares, up 70% since the ipo over a year ago. just reported third quarter earnings and beat wall street expectatio

expectations. jim cramer weighing in on the stock on "closing bell" yesterday. >> workday reported after the bell, that's probably the most expensive stock. wday, single most highly valued stock in america. >> jim thinks it's a buy even at these levels. let's bring in max wolf who says he's not touching it. guys, welcome. ross, you think the stock is expensive here. why do you have a buy on it? >> well, this is a company that's basically taking share from some very large incumbent players, oracle and s.a.p. you mentioned. the market caps of those two companies combined is about $350 billion. the market cap of workday is about $13 billion. if they continue to take share, there's an awful lot of opportunity left in this name. >> max, what's your issue with workday? >> we think it has a bright future, has a good model.

if they continue to take share for two years, it will justify the valuation it has today. that's the problem. trading at more than 17 times next year, if you grow by almost 100% means that your price for perfection on anything less than perfection, otherwise known as real life in the real world, will cause real pain to your owners. >> ross, is growth the only thing that matters here or they might be expanding by taking margin or cutting prices have anything to do with potentially upsetting the story here? >> they certainly don't cut prices. i don't think workday is anything like the cheapest solution in the market. it's the best quality solution in the market. it's the best differentiated solution in the market. and i think they have massive runway. have you to put it in perspective. the company has 550 customers on its core acm product. it has between 50 and 75 on financial products. these are small numbers in the greene grand scheme of things. we think there's so much opportunity ahead that it's

somewhat short-sighted to look at the next two years and we should look at the next five-plus years. >> if i have three years i can wait until the share valuation multiple comes down to earth in the next two or three years and then buy it. i do -- >> what is it worth then, max, right now? what should it be trading for? >> $55 to $65 puts it at the high end of the range of all of its peers, including others with huge addressable markets. i think we've seen this company impressive year over year grow its revenue, 75-plus percent but we've also seen the loss in that process not move at all at about $20 million quarterly rate. as it's scaling up, which i think it will, we're not seeing any improvement in profitability. i agree with my colleague, it's a long-term story, a good story, but then why buy it now as the most expensive thing out there? >> i mean f you're talking about $55 to $60 when it's treateding up at $80, ross, what's the counterargument? >> the counterargument here is

that they're not really getting rewarded to make a lot of operating margin or profits today. this is a land grab for market share. we think when you're generating 85% gross march begins, there's enormous potential to be profitable in the future. the issue i have not that it's -- clearly, i know it's an expensive stock. that's not the issue. the issue is what it's going to pull back? i just feel like these secular growth names, best in class management, best in class technology. it's very hard not to own them. >> if you don't like it at this level, max, what's the harm of buying it now and even if it goes down 10%, you -- the old fashioned way of investing in a company you like? >> the other way to do it is to wait until it's not the most expensive way -- >> there's no guarantee you'll get a correction. >> except 99 times out of 100

when you trade at this multiple premium to everybody else doing the same thing, they don't all go up, particularly if you're looking at the market to close out the best year and best years for tech. at an expensive moment, this is more expensive than anything else. what that tells us is, 99 times out of 100 you're better off to wait. this could be the other time, but i'm willing to take the 99 out of 100 odds all day. that's more or less what we get paid to advise people to do. >> i think the interesting question now becomes, how do they react -- or how do the shares perform if they come out with a quarter that doesn't exceed expectations? we'll wait and see if and when that happens. thanks, guys. >> thanks. happy holidays. >> in the meantime we're keeping an eye on markets. half an hour left to go into the close. the dow is adding 42 points. about a third of a percent to the s&p 500. >> massive winter storm threatening thanksgiving travel along the east coast for the next couple of days. weather just starting here in new york city as a matter of fact. in a few hours it's supposed to

get really ugly. we'll get an update on how bad it can be. >> willen early hanukkah deliver an early shopping season for retailers? we'll get into that. we asked people, "if you could get paid to do something you really love, what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪ when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪

old man winter is unleashing its first big burst of activity just in time to create holiday headaches and retail nightmares. >> mark elliott from the weather channel tracking the storm for us joins us now live. we are now looking more closely than ever as to what we'll see on wednesday and thursday. what can you tell us? >>. >> it is a mess with this storm. travel will be impacted. over 200 million people will be in the path of this storm from when it started out west to the northeast corridor. let's take a look at what's going on right now. we still have very heavy rain. severe thunderstorms, a few tornadoes possible here in portions of georgia and florida. across the northeast you can see the big apple starting to get into the light rain. that is the key. the i-95 corridor should stay

mostly as rain but a dangerous icing scenario is setting up in central pa and heavy snow has set up in interior sections of the north east including buffalo, pittsburgh and cleveland. this is going to be the setup. we've got this area of low pressure up the coast with all the moisture and cold air will be pouring in from behind the system. that combination is what's giving us heavier precipitation from interior sections of the snow. travelers toward the coast, from today into wednesday, will be dealing with that rainy mess. that rain is going to be heavy at times so the i-95 corridor. the good news, i suppose, is that you're not dealing with the ice and snow. you will be dealing with that further towards the west. so, the interior sections are going to have a tough go of things. and snow is going to be considerable. look at some of these snowfall totals, bill. by the end, 12, 18 inches of snow not out of the question back towards the great lakes. >> yikes. mark elliott of the weather

channel. thanks. rain and wind notwithstanding, for the first time in 95 years the celebrations of hanukkah and thanksgiving overlap causing all sorts of family conflicts. but this confluence of events may have an impact on the retail sector. courtney reagan covering sort of a different perfect storm. >> that's right. black friday a long part of the vernacular. one would assume most hanukkah sell brarts are done shopping before black friday. price grabber surveyed consumers asking thit will affect spendin. 31% said they would buy a few before the holidays and take advantage of the deals after thanksgiving. 25% said they would be done shopping very early. 9% of hanukkah shoppers said they would wait to buy all of their presents after the first day of hanukkah to make sure

they didn't miss out on the details. hanukkah shoppers only represent 6.5% of total holiday shoppers in the u.s. but the group spends 25% more than the typical holiday consumer. most analysts don't believe that calendar anomalies like the early hanukkah or shortened holiday shopping season truly impact overall spending. in november, walmart's chief merchandising officer told reporters he doesn't believe the timing of hanukkah will impact black friday sales. >> courtney, before you go, kelly i and i have concerned about you. you're heading to ohio, aren't you? >> i am heading to ohio. i was watching that forecast very closely. >> are you going to walk? >> i might be able to leave here. i don't know. i was thinking, maybe if the plane could fly above new york state into canada and back down -- >> we'll introduce the courtney tracker. >> who wants to drive me home? >> that's what you face right there. there are pictures of columbus, ohio, right there. >> bill, you want to drive me home? deliver us safely.

>> say hi to your folks when you get there. >> he's already calculating the gas bill. >> it's cheaper there, you know. >> so we hear. >> i would do that. now, how else are weather and hanukkah going to impact the holiday season? let's get the pulse with ceo neil cole. welcome. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> bill and i both think we're in the wrong business because you turned licensing into a $13 billion revenue, is that right? >> yes. we've been very fortunate. iconics come up with the model where we partner with great retailers around the world and sell 33 different brond that equal $13 billion. >> candy's, danskin, joe boxer, peanuts, sharper image, sandra lee, fieldcrest. it goes on and on. some of these are companies that have sort of fallen down a bit, so you scoop them up and how do you improve that branding image

when you do that? >> what we do is usually partner with one big retailer, usually a macy's, walmart, target and put new marketing and energy into the brands. we look at brands like danskin or london fog, 100-year-old companies and make them relevant for today. we create marketing, branding, the right celebrities and do all the ways to make brands relevant and great today. >> that's what people, i think, would like to know because to some extent it's what happens these days careerwise, professionally, personally. a lot of people are thinking about you, how do you get the message out? how do you tell the story? what's a success story? >> you know, social media has become such an important part of our business. we work hard socially. we do print, we do television. anywhere the skumpl consumer isy to get share of mind. if branding is relevant, share of mind, get in the aisle, we'll do a lot of sales.

>> branding has always fascinating me. when you but two different products in front of somebody, they are -- they tend to go with the brand they're familiar with, the name. it may be the identical product but that brand name is what they will aspire to. >> yeah. it's a club. if you buy that brand, you join that club. and you associate all the characteristics of that brand with who you want to be. and so if you deliver great product time and time, good value, the consumer remembers and they're loyal. >> talk to us about the holiday season. i'm not sure how -- if your business model is more on the licensing, is that a one-time deal? do you get royalty or revenue stream? >> we get royalty every day of the year and a percentage of sales. >> it's volume-driven, transaction-driven. however the day -- the thanksgiving plays out, black friday plays out, that has real day-to-day sigz for you guys? >> it does and doesn't. we look at whole season.

my personal belief opening up four hours early and ruining our thanksgiving is not going to make anyone -- i think those sales will come later in the month. >> good for you. what are they thinking about? >> agreed. workers who suffer in this case, they have to be at these stores. >> i feel horrible -- that business is -- people have budgets, they have means and they're going to live to those bumg budgets. if they go out thursday, i think it will come from later in the month. >> the feeling is, it's going to be 3% growth this year, sales for the holidays. you on board with that or -- >> i think that's a fair number, what we've seen. there's a lot of good momentum with the dow and good momentum in business. i think, you know, consumers will spend a little more than last year. >> it's been said we can't actually talk about the quote/unquote, u.s. consumer. we have to break down into different buckets. how do you think about it? a high, middle, low? more variations than that? >> there's definitely high, middle, low but we think global. we think the world is the growth

area. look at emerging markets. we see all these retailers coming into america and taking our share so we feel we have to go there and take their share. look as a global economy. that's how we continue to grow. almost 40% of our growth is coming from outside the united states. in these new emerging markets. >> what's the hottest one for you now? >> china is a big market. we have over 800 new retail stores there growing. we're also despited about areas like india and brazil, other emerging markets around the world. >> did you feel that? that was more licensings revenue coming in for neil. >> coming around christmas, that has to be easy. >> peanuts is an amazing christmas. as soon as it stars with halloween to christmas, one time for our brand. >> neil cole with iconix. good to see you. >> let's go to seema mody with a special market flash. >> bitcoin, it's been a volatile

week, but bitcoin hit an all-time high today. on twitter a lot of folks trying to figure out if it will break $1,000. let's keep an eye on it. clearly, there is a lot of bullish appetite on the street for bitcoin, the digital currency. bill and kelly. >> for everybody's reading g to new york times online and read andrew ross sorkin's article on bitcoin. >> i thought you were going to go read about the dutch tulip craze. >> read that, too. but read ross' thoughtful bit on bitcoin. heading to the close. 14 minutes left in the trading session with dow up 30 points. we're watching the nasdaq. it looks like it's going to close above 4,000 for the first time since september of 2000. >> waiting for your return, as you say. almost feels like happy days here again for the nasdaq. question is, are they too happy? is there signs of froth in the market? talk of another bubble? it looks like today is the day,

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so, 4,000 is looking good for the nasdaq. first time since september of 2000 it would close above that level. march of that same year it was topping 5,000. we were heading the other direction and then we know what happened after that, right? >> the important request is, what is the difference between now and then? sheila joining us with some answers. hey, sheila. >> not only are we above 4,000 here at the nasdaq, but we are firmly above 4,000. 4,026 to be exact as we head into the close. today's big gains are giving a nice lift to the tech-heavy, amazon, google hitting new highs. remember, we haven't seen these levels since 2000 september. we decided to take a look at the nasdaq back then to now. i think we're having mike trouble so we'll send it back to

you for now. >> we'll pick back up with you as soon as it's sorted out. >> i love this question? requested. >> is greed good? that's the question. >> you see who answered that today? >> no. what did i miss? >> what about capitalism? the pope chimed in today. >> yes, yes, yes. this is getting a lot of chatter. >> eamon javers is now our catholic reporter. >> yeah. on the one hand you could say you have gordon gekko over here and now pope francis. appear systolt apostolic exother exortation. he made critical excess of market capitalism. how can it be that it is not news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure but it is news when the stock

market loses two points? he mentions trickle down economics, income gap between rich and poor, self-serving tax evasion, idolatry of money and defied market. he says he loves everyone, rich and poor but points out the rich must do their part to help. a fascinating document from the vatican. the vatican saying this is, in essence, the pope building on a number of public speeches he's made into one formal public pronouncement here. in it he's going right after what he says are the excesses of the current world global market economy. >> pope benedict built on some of these himself before resigning. thanks for that. should we just leave now? >> we'll just move on. >> we're going outside. >> yeah, we're good people, really. 12 minutes left in the trading session. the dow starting to lose altitude, up 15 points. and we do have a sell side bias. art cashin signaling me.

>> still to come, its been a rough couple of months for president obama and white house staff. coming up, we'll talk to one of his departed, chief economist alan krueger for an inside look about what went right and what went wrong.

ten minutes left in the trading session. we were up the last hour, about a 40-point gain on the dow. starting to lose steam there. it's going to be like that because of the holidays and maybe the weather. dow still up 15 point with the nasdaq above 4,000. joining us, paul schautz and bob kelfan. thank you for joining us today. i said earlier, we had gusts on, everybody was bullish, that makes me nervous. you like this market as well. does that make you nervous to have all this bullishness in the market right now? >> sentiment is at rally-ending levels.

it's not a bull market anymore but sentiment, if it wasn't the end of november, i think you would have much bigger problem in markets. it's tough to see any significant peak in late in the year, especially to have the market roll over hard. that's why everyone is bullish, because of history. sentiment is worrisome. >> are you taking profits here? >> i'll be like everybody, that nervous, cautious bull. i i'll take profits later into december for sure but not right here. >> what about you? >> i think it is time to be nervous, although i think, you know, the upside is probably where things go. but with the monetary policy the way it is, it's easy for this risk-on we've seen to come back off and things to get skiddish in a hurry. >> having said that, as long as the fed is still pumping $85 billion a month into this market, is there any reason to really sell stocks in a big way here? >> the marks peaked prior to qe1 ending, peaked prior to qe2

ending, and initial bump of twist, the markets peaked. the markets should peak. >> when is that? we had deadlines on the other two, right? we knew when they were going to end. we have no clue whether this is going to end. >> they're floating -- >> i'm listen, paul. tell me what date that is. >> the fed will taper in the first quarter. . i 100% don't agree with it. i think tapering will be the single biggest mistake to the economy and markets over the last five years. >> i disagree on both counts. i think they're going to not taper in the first quarter. i think it will go on longer than people expect. >> do you think it's possible janet yellen could even add to the $85 billion and increase -- >> it's possible. i think she'll have other things in her tool box to keep monetary easing, not necessarily adding onto bonds. i think the market would get too upset with that. i think there are other things they'll look on. they really want to have rates perceived to be low for a while

but it's possible they might take away interest on reserves which would add a lot of money to the markets and economy. >> i feel a little better. i got a couple of nervous bulls at least here. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> happy holidays. >> and you to you. we'll come back with the closing countdown, and we're moments away from hewlett-packard's fiscal fourth quarter, instant reaction and analysis from jim cramer. david faber here with new information on hewlett-packard. stick around. could be market-moving for tomorrow. you're watching cnbc. that's mine. ♪ that's mine. ♪ come on, kyle. ♪ [ horn honks ] that's mine...kyle. [ male announcer ] revenge is best served with 272 horses. now get the best offers of the season. current lessees with an expiring lease get this 2014 ats for around $299 a month. ♪

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two minutes left here. we had some selling on the -- as we head toward the close, just hearing from dom chu there was $1.4 billion to sell. so selling was heavy to the down side. with the dow now just up six points. nasdaq well above 4,000. the first time since september of 2000 we'll close above 4,000. hewlett-packard reporting after the bell tonight. looking for a profit of $1 on $27.91 billion in revenue. and hewlett-packard is down 12 cent. this is still the best performing dow component in 2013. terry dolen -- >> how are you, bill. >> seems to me there's too much bullishness in this market right

now. >> i'm beginning to agree with that. and i think there be tapering as you start into the first quarter of next year and we take a look at what hapsz between tapering, interest rate scenario, what sectors are overvalued. when people start to rebalance their portfolio, they have to take a real look at value too. >> it seems we have it all figured out. we know what's going to happen as long as the fed is pumping money into the system. >> that's the latest school of thought. don't forget, for the first half of year a lot of money sat on the sidelines not believing the rally and is now chasing after it and i think they're formulating plans to enter on a bigger scale next year providing things continue to stabilize. we've seen better growth in the house market, better growth in the economy. albeit slow, it's decent growth. >> we are turning negative on the dow. we did have quite a bit of stock for sale at the close. that's taken a toll on the industrial average, but the nasdaq will be finishing above 4,000 for the first time since

2000. thanks very much. that's going to do it for the first hour of the "closing bell." thank you for joining us. i'll see you tomorrow. stay tuned now for smart conversation. it's a new day, the second hour of the "closing bell," with kelly evans and company. i'll see you tomorrow. >> it is another historic day on wall street with the nasdaq closing above 4,000 for the first time in 13 years. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm kelly evans. here's how we're finishing the day on wall street. only adding a couple of points on the dow. just barely a point on the s&p 500. those arrows should be light green basically. the nasdaq is up about 23 point. it's the outperformer today. it was lagging yesterday. but, again, a lot of people focused on that 4,000 level psychologically if for no other reason. that's how we appear to be finishing up. want to move on, bring in