>> they do have another copy which they can say is worth at least 14 million bucks. >> thank you so much. robert frank, thank you. a huge thank you to jon and dom and thank you for watching "street signs." we're off until monday. happy thanksgiving, everybody. "closing bell" is next. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm kelly evans down here at the new york stock exchange. >> let's get this out of the way. i'm 6'3" -- >> i'm wearing tall heels. >> i have no perspective. it worked for sonny bono for years and it will work for me, too. >> you rock it. >> quiet day on wall street this day before thanksgiving but a busy news day here on the "closing bell." tomorrow is the day it kicks off the holiday shopping season. tomorrow. not friday. i saw a commercial for a major retailer over the weekend during a football game where they said,

hey, we'll be open thursday at 5:00. they couldn't bring themselves to say thanksgiving. they just said thursday. >> even worse, as many of them opening on thursday aren't closing. they're going to open all night into friday, a marathon period. >> we'll be there, by the way, on friday. i cannot believe she's got me going to a mall on black friday. >> look, i think there will be a little more foot traffic in that shopping mall than down here on the stock exchange on friday. >> we have that coming up. all kind of stories to tell about you on wall street. >> and a couple of big interviews. american apparel is one store that will be open, and many other locations, why? we'll ask the ceo when he joins us after the closing bell and we'll get his take on how the season is shaping up. >> do you know where you will not get a deal right now? that would be on bitcoins. the virtual currency trading above $1,000 now. i mean, it's just nuts what's gone on here. the bitcoin has quadrupled.

it started out at $210. >> i was going to say, it's a deal for those that already own bitcoin, even if everyone else is looking at it with a raised eyebrow. >> come on. it's a bubble, right? >> but if you have a finite supply of anything and enough people pile in and you can use it and exchange it for other items, i don't see how you could possibly call it a sell right here. dangerous -- >> i'll call it a sell. i'll call it a sell. >> quick look at indexes as we head into the final hour of trade. the s&p up three point or so. nasdaq up 24,039. looks like we're headed to a fresh 13-year closing high for nasdaq and all-time highs at 1805. >> let's talk about it in our "closing bell exchange," peter anderson from congress asset management, jim key, kevin, and

our own rick santelli. kevin, are we -- you know, we talked yesterday about how so many people are bullish which made my palms sweat to some degree. you're feeling a little cautious in the near term, aren't you? >> the market has had a fantastic run. we're up 25-plus percent this year. i think most of the strategists this year got it wrong by a pretty wide margin. luckily the error was to the plus side for the stock market. so, i would just say, look, this still is and will be part of the equation for investors. the fact of the matter is, earnings haven't caused this. a drop in interest rates haven't caused this. the real thing about this is investors have become very comfortable with the world. while i think you enjoy it on the way up, it's having a wealth effect that's feeding back into the economy. you want to make sure as you go into 2014, you're thinking about quality, consistency and value in all the stocks you own in your portfolio because risk is

not gone from the equation. >> i'm not sure, peter, investors have to be that discriminant. "the wall street journal" pointed this out today, we're seeing an historic high in the number of companies rallying this year. do you expect that to continue or are people going to have to get more selective? >> i think people will start to get more selective. you're absolutely right. so far it's almost been an indiscriminate rally. the good part of that is that valuations are not too high. the bad part is we're still really kind of on tenderhooks in the fact that some stocks in certain portfolios -- i trade stocks all week this week. i'm surprised at some of the hits that we've seen based on some slightly weakened earnings. it's a very mixed picture right now. you do see this rally, this strength and rally like you asked earlier, but i would push back a little and say, it's not all roses out there.

there are still some stocks taking arrows to the knees because they might have missed earnings by a couple cents. i don't think that's a fair picture. >> we are getting a little more skiddish when those reports come out. jim, i can't remember the last time we had a 10% correction in this market. the pullbacks have been 5% at most. and then they buy that dip. but you think -- i mean, we're due, don't you think? >> yeah, absolutely. while the odds are greater than 50% for a pullback or possibly a correction of 10% or more. but there's a lot of opportunity for that in finding growth stocks that displayed defensive characteristics. but we do expect the indices to end the year higher. we just think there will be a pullback. >> lately the action is in bond markets. credit where there's a ton of

iss issuance. is that contributing to any nervousness? >> the interest rate boys aren't nervous about it. investors are comfy with globe with dynamics that shouldn't continue. it should be tolerant. today's seven-year auction was very, very spotty. why? because anything beyond the five-year isn't deemed to be under the anchor of the fed trying to keep what interest rates it can control low. the seven-year wasn't low. investors didn't show up. even though the yield curve didn't steepen today, as a matter of fact, fives to tens, fives to 30s, they came in a bit. that's a mean reversion trade. keep an eye on the japanese yen. at the end of the day, what some call nervousness is just an

impending sense of reality, how it pans out is the reality. >> what is the gamble? anybody want to buy a bitcoin? >> $1,000 for bitcoin? come on! >> kevin, what would you buy here, anything? >> we're looking at the portfolio. things have become harder to buy, to be frank. what we're doing is going through the portfolio one company at a time and saying, is the price right. if the stock were difficult -- remember, we're five years into a recovery here. it's not reasonable. if you have a three to five time horizon when you want to be an investor, you have to think that company may run into hard times. while the sun is shining, fix the roof, make sure you have quality, consistency and value. i think you're okay. >> peter, i want to talk briefly

about valuation here, too. there's some talk whether they're high or moving up over the next couple of years, and if that's the case and prices we're seeing are on multiple expansion, that can't be a good sign, can it? >> no, it cannot. >> we're talking about stocks being so high right now. let me give you a specific counter example. lionsgate, for instance, they're responsible for hunger games part two, "catching fire." they came out last week. they would ignore that data and push lionsgate up further, 10%.

there is some rationale in the marketplace. i just don't think we're seeing it on a wholesale level the way we normally do. >> it was unusual to see that. obviously hunger games caught fire over the weekend but they caught flames on monday. >> you just did that. >> he teed it up there for me. thank you for joining us. happy thanksgiving. >> same to you. >> happy thanksgiving. >> so, the overall -- you'll get used to it. the overall markets may not be moving much but certain stocks are. dominic chu are following those for us. >> i saw what bill did there. i just want to say it for the record. thanks, guys. let's kick it off. shares of hewlett-packard surging, beating sales and profit expectations. meg whitman says the turn-around plan is on track. this time analog devices, one of the biggest decliners in the s&p 500 technology sector. this is the maker of signal processing circuits and chips.

reported profits that beat estimates but sales and current quarter forecast disappointed there. those shares to the downside. and in the holiday shopping spirit, let's take a look at zale's, posting smaller than expected loss for the quarter and same store sales were up 4.4%, but investors are pushing this stock lower. remember, zale's, a stock up 240% so far this year. back over to you. >> holy cow. >> crazy, isn't it? >> jewelry space, amazing. thanks very much. about 45 minutes left to go into the close. dow beginning to climb. it's up now 32 points. we're looking, as we said, at new highs for the s&p, for the dow and 13-year highs for the nasdaq. >> speaking of retail, luxury or low end. which will dominate this holiday shopping season and what does that say about our economy? we'll look at that coming up. >> we'll get the outlook for holidays from one of the most outspoken and controversial ceos in the retail business. american apparel's dov charney.

>> my worst nightmare. i can't believe i'm going to the mall on black friday. don't miss a special issue of "closing bell." we'll give you a real time look how shopping is unfolding. the mall at short hills and it kicks off at noon on friday. a special time for "closing bell." because the markets do close early at 1:00 eastern time. >> at least you can get some holiday shopping done. think about it that way. >> what are you shopping for? >> i'm getting a tesla. i might try to drive one. it will be interesting, we'll be at the shopping mall that has the tesla dealership right there. i think you'll find it interesting. >> stay tuned. le go to a mattres le go to a mattres store and essentially they

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is this me? it's me, isn't it? >> if you want it. >> retailers are less than a day away from being off to the races this holiday shopping season. in fact, for many it starts tomorrow on thanksgiving. >> i know. >> just feels weird, doesn't it? what kind of shopping season should we expect this year? >> noted retail analyst says the high-end retailers are posed to be the big winners this season. also with us is the managing

director of global research for experian marketing research group. welcome to you both. >> thank you. >> talk about this luxury story a little bit. we've seen some outperformers in terms of tiffany. who else would benefit going into the season? >> tiffany, bloomingdale, division of macy's. macy's will also do extremely well. and you'll have the other high-end department stores. nordstroms do exceptionally well where downscale we're seeing all the discounters struggle. walmart, target, shopko, k-mart. midtiers, targets and sears, profitless. >> if i read this correctly, explain this more. amazon, within the retail 500, its market share has increased from 15% of visits last year to

25, almost 26% this year. that's a huge gain. what's going on here? >> that gain is correct. what we've seen happen with amazon, they've been incredibly aggressive in terms of getting traffic to the site, getting consumers, offering discounts. as a result of that, they're really drawing the consumer there and increasing market share as a result. >> as bert suggests, are they making any market share there? >> that's the big challenge for all retailers we track in our retail index. they might be attracting a lot of traffic but are they making margins? here's the key this holiday season as we go into this holiday. consumers if you look at them, only 57% of them are incented by deals. a lot of retailers are offering deals across the board. the winners that can offer the

trying are based on it but don't offer it toe those that don't need them. >> at the same time, amazon is almost becoming or positioning i was as a luxury play, trying to go after that space. would you include them as one of the potential winners here from maybe both of these trends? >> kelly, you're completely correct. amazon wins as predator. amazon wins as luxury retailer. amazon sweeps the doubleheader along with luxury, as you referenced. the losers will be the low end. >> tell me about that. you think walmart is in deep trouble. why? >> their research team has been fanning out to walmart stores. they didn't do the traffic last month, last week, last weekend, so far this week. they're only staffing a few registers out of the 28 to 30 plus they have in the stores. there aren't the compelling deep discounts in the walmart stores so shoppers are outsmarting the stores and waiting for deeper

discounts. also walmart alienated shoppers by not having door busters available for the full day. this time only available for an hour. and more shoppers are moving to amazon. >> we will get back to the management question. to this point, here's what i would love to know. is walmart struggling because the core consumer struggling or struggling because of operational, execution issue that bill was referencing? >> if we look at walmart numbers, they're doing well in terms of placing online visits. i think it's more important to look at the consumer in this case. we heard the conference board come out with their numbers in consumer confidence, lowest in seven months. we find that it's the high-end consumer, the consumer that's more affluent, is the one month positive about the economy. in fact, those earning above $150,000 a year are 14% more positive than they were a month ago.

consumers less affluent are dropping in confidence. consumer credit ratings are going up. it's healthy going into the holiday season. as a result, the extension of credit to consumers through rising limits is increasing. we're reaching a high point in terms of kashdz. 20% year over year increase. highest since 2009. consumers have more to spend, across the well. that bodes well for discount retailers and luxury retailers. >> do you read anything into the timing of the announcement of this change at the top for walmart here? >> definitely. walmart's shelves are not stocked. they don't have sufficient labor in the store. you can't sell from an empty shelf. >> to bring more confidence to the marketplace or what?

>> more confidence to the marketplace because for the first time in 12 years, walmart has a store operations person and a merchant running the company instead of people from h&r and trucking who know how to cut costs but don't know how to drive and increase consumer demand, which has been walmart's problem for a look time. >> very interesting. >> we'll see if that makes a difference coming out of the holiday period. have a great one. >> you too. >> heading toward the close. 40 minutes left in the trading session here. dow's up 29. s&p still above 1800. any positive close for those two all-time high again. >> that's right. amazing. especially the lack of attention, frankly, being paid to it. what an amazing year for amazon. the stock rallied again today. coming up next, we'll hear from someone who says investors should take profits and get out of the stock before it comes crashing back to earth. really? ahead of the shopping season? he'll make his case. >> a new survey finds more people desire a technology gift more than anything else this

holiday season. which company would stand to benefit most, you ask? we'll look at that later on the "closing bell." >> as we head to break, here's a look at the holiday travel scene. there's cleveland, ohio. do we have our courtney tracker up? got all the cozies. [ grandma ] with new fedex one rate, i could fill a box and ship it for one flat rate. so i knit until it was full. you'd be crazy not to. is that nana? [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. [tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 life inspires your trading. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 where others see fads... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 ...you see opportunities. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 at schwab, we're here to help tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 turn inspiration into action. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 we have intuitive platforms tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 to help you discover what's trending. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and seasoned market experts to help sharpen your instincts. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 so you can take charge tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 of your trading.

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should nearly everyone have that stock in their portfolio? let's have a stock brawl. >> gloves off. louie thinks it has a terrible risk averse trade. louie, we have to start with you. amazon is a stock and a story everyone seems to love, so why are they wrong? >> listen, a mentor once told me, fall in love with your sweetheart, not a product and service and stock behind it because she's guaranteed to love you back. i'm sorry, amazon is not guaranteed to do that. if you look at it, the valuation is completely unjustifiable. even if you look at operating march begins, a massive countdown to implosion. they have operating margins below 1%. walmart boasts better operating margins, 5 or 6 times better. while everyone must think this is a must own technology because they love technology stock because they love the products

and services, i'm sorry, i don't think it is from risk versus reward. >> victor, that is the classic argument against amazon. they don't turn a profit consistently. >> i hear that argument all the time. i think amazon is one of the best in class technology companies on the planet. it is one of these generational stockses, i think, that all growth investors should own in a portfolio. a high multiple stock but it's supported by multiple different growth propellers. number one, actually four different growth propellers. number one, taking share in e-commerce as well as retail. 8% of retail e-commerce grow into 50% by 2015. you buy into that stock, you buy into that growth curve, up and to the right. you compare that to other technology companies and growth curve is going the opposite way. >> you think shares going to 15% or 50%? >> 15%. >> that's a doubles.

>> it's a huge doubling of the growth curve for amazon. number two, you're buying into the fact that amazon essentially owns the cloud services business it operates in. it has a significant share. i'm projecting roughly $3 billion in revenues for aws in 2015. in 2013 -- and tripling by 2016. >> those are all great forecasts and predictions about growth in the future and it's a promise one day hopefully amazon grows into its valuation, but the fact is, amazon has one competitive advantage. that's simply low cost. i'm sorry. that's not an advantage you can keep forever like you do luggage. ask china. they're losing out and being supplanted by vietnam now. there's already signs amazon is losing pace, too. a study back in august by bb&t found bed bath and beyond beat amazon by prices on a basket of 30 goods. this is a great american

entrepreneurial story about how they built a revenue model, without a shadow of a doubt. >> you put your finger to. that's it -- to this point, he has built a revenue juggernaut. as long as that story and revenue proceed jekdzs continue to work, the stock will do okay. it's when that cracks or changes is when there's a potential problem. >> the revenue growth story no longer -- is no longer a story for amazon. i push back on his statement. i think amazon, operating models depressed by a huge factor because they're invested in aws. you strip out investment to aws, you have a high-margin business comparable to other retailers, even exceeding other retailers. i think operating margins expand in 2014 and '15 so you buy into that operating margin expansion. >> the knock on the profitability question. i thought jeff bazos could turn

a profiting margin if he chose to but he continues to reinvest in the company for growth purposes. i'm not here to do your job, victor, but they are kind of a company that are looking to the future and growing rather than trying to turn a profit and please wall street. lewis? >> he was rendered mute by your argument. >> i convinced him. he's changing his mind. can you hear us? >> no, i haven't changed my mind. >> okay. what's your -- go ahead. >> tekd turn a profit but since 1997 they have not made that decision. humphrey neil said it best, when everyone thinks alike, everyone is likely to be wrong. there's not a single analyst on wall street that has amazon rated a sale. even if they're all right, the average price target they have implies 4% or 5% upside to the stock right now. i'm sorry. that's not an attractive risk

versus reward when you can play a company like turtle beach which will be traded on the nasdaq in the middle of this video game console where microsoft and sony sold out of their new consoles. that's a much more compelling growth trend that has way more upside than amazon because of the holiday shopping season. >> gentlemen, both. appreciate your thoughts on amazon. happy thanksgiving. darn, i thought i had him convinced. >> you won some people over, that's for sure. >> that would be something. hanging onto this gain. the dow is up 30 points. s&p also in positive territory. all-time highs if we close positive today. >> as we head towards the end of the month, tech toys and devices, hot or not this holiday season? josh lipton has been doing some digging and he'll join us next from silicon valley. and then we'll hear exclusively from the head of specialty cookware retailer to see what he has for black friday deals. the american dream is of a better future,

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xbox one, chrome cast, these are some of the names retailers hope will drive traffic and

sales this holiday retail season. josh lipton joins us. >> it could be a big weekend for tech. about one-third of shoppers surveyed by consumer electronics association said she plan to buy electronics this weekend. that is what could happen. the actual number could be even stronger. last year 44% of those who shopped over the weekend did buy electronics. economists say this year tech could overtake clothing as the most popular category. most expected to buy a tablet, followed by laptop consumers, video game consoles and televisions. they chalk up some of that enthusiasm to new announcements. >> we have new game consoles, new computing prushgts a number of new tablets, smartphones. all of these are growth categories with large installed bases. consumers going out and buying these categories over the

weekend. >> analysts we spoke to say the hot items could include apple's ipad, seven-inch android tablets and big-screen televisions from samsung and vizio. >> still some tech gifts on that list, josh. thanks. our next guest is hoping shoppers will have money left over afterwards for what he sells, and that's high-end kitchen gak gadgets and accessories. johning us is the ceo of sur la table. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> do you prefer people call it sur la table or -- >> that's better than what i would have said. >> we say sur la table. >> what do you see as we head into the peak of the holiday shopping? what are people buying? >> remember something. we're already in peak. thanksgiving is a huge cooking

holiday. the saturday before thanksgiving and today are huge days for our businesses, in addition to black friday and dwha will happen from friday thereon. america cooks. america celebrates cooking. that's where we come in. of our 117 stores, 115 have cooking schools where we teach people. >> which will get people through the door, obviously. we had the ceo of williams sonoma here the other day -- >> who? >> yeah, i know, i know. we talked about what a commodityized business you're in right now. there's so much competition, so many places people can buy gadgets for a much cheaper price. it's all about market share. i can't imagine margins are high in your industry. >> it's all about having a product for the customer that's interesting. telling them a story, give them a reason to come into a store or go to the website to find something that's really exclusive or innovative.

i think we do a great job of that. that's really what we're here for, is to celebrate cook and find ways for people to have more fun in the kitchen. >> what's the mix currently, jashgs between goods and service at your store? by services i mean some of those cooking classes which are going to grow in value for your company over the next couple of years. i think about a petsmart, too, building on that services model which is something an amazon, frankly, can't do. >> exactly. it's a more compelling reason for people to come to us. it's one thing to watch a tv show about how to make pasta but when you can spend three hours with us and we teach you thousand make pasta from scratch, that's a different experience. you probably realize along the way a couple things in your house you to want change in your house. take a basic knife skill class and you realize, i need a different --

>> how big of that is your refuse new today and where do you expect that going? >> when i started with the company, we had 18 programs. now we have more kitchens than stores. going from 18 to 51 as we more than doubled the store count as well. >> why are we cooking more now? kelly and i were talking about this before the show. we both cook. >> bill's the chef. >> i love to cook. i cook virtually every night. what happened? why are we spending more time at home cooking rather than going out these days? >> it represents more value than it did a generation ago. we see the value in making a meal and we understand what it means to the people we cook for. it's an expression of love. it clearly is. in our world there are very few things you do that you do from beginning to end. there's a satisfaction to that and i think cooking is a great creative outlet for people as well. >> all the chefs who become rock stars now, is that a part of the attraction as well?

>> that has been. i think there's a movement beyond that. i think you're seeing the farmer become a rock star as well. the origin of food is more important to people today than ever before. >> that's true. >> current events somewhat dictates that. oil in the gulf, radiation in fish in the pacific, these pink slime in our meat. these affect the way people eat and how they do it. i also think today more than ever before we have access to ingredients like we've never had before. i don't know that it was possible ten years ago to find kreme fresh in idaho. it's easy to do now because we have great purr vaifveyors. >> produce used to be seasonal. now you can get it because of -- >> i think people worry about,

where did this come from? i would rather support the local farmer. there's a statistic now there are more local farms or more farms are cropping up around america. there's an increase more than we've seen in the last 50 years, which is exciting. >> what's the best selling product for you so far? >> there's a lot of great selling products. we're prideful of what we do with cookware, what we do with cutlery and knives and what we do with electrics. we have an amazing pizza oemven you can use at home propane poired that gets up to 600 degrees and it's incredible and you can only get it at sur la table. >> our producer wants to know which farmer you're referring to that has become a rock star. i get it but he doesn't. >> you can pick one. you with talk about dartanian in new york, different cheese purveyors in seattle, different bread manufacturers in los angeles. or wheat manufacturers, i should say.

>> jack, good to see you. thank you. >> you say the name of the company better than i do. >> sur la table. >> he's early. you'll see him tomorrow, the thanksgiving day parade. but st. nick has come to the floor of the new york stock exchange. >> he's standing behind us. if you thought -- if you thought black friday was early, santa is already here? >> he's shameless. he goes in there -- >> i thought he was santa. >> i thought he'd make a play for one of the elves back there, but i guess not. going for santa there. nice to see you, santa. there we go. bullish or bearish? >> i'm sure he's with the consensus. 20 minutes to go before the closing bell. keeping an eye on markets. dow adding 30 points so not much movement. >> just how important are social networking sites like twitter and face book when it comes to the success of black friday and the holiday shopping season this

year? we have more than you might think. we'll explain in a moment. after the break, it's the rematch we've all been waiting for. she's a little country. he's a little rock 'n' roll. seema mody says small caps will keep driving this market to record highs. dominic chu says large caps are the place to go. they go toe to toe. [ sniffles, coughs ] shhhh! i have a cold with this annoying runny nose. [ sniffles ] i better take something. [ male announcer ] dayquil cold and flu doesn't treat that. it doesn't?

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welcome back. the s&p 500 is up 27% this year. in fact, that's been bested by the russell 2000 which year to date is up 34% for the small caps, bill. >> but still, marvelous seema mody says there's evidence to support the small cap rally is just getting started while dynamite dominic chu says it's time for the large caps to take charge. they step into the ring to settle their differences nicely. >> nothing below the belt there. let's start off with large cap. if you're a large cap, they were at record highs but you buy them for safety reasons. if you're looking for appreciation, large caps are at record highs right now.

we took a look at uber large caps and the ones that pay you to wait. they give you a dividend yield. big names, stable names, the ones who have been around for decades. at&t with a 5% yield. then i've got intel with 4 % yield and mcdonald's with 3% yield. if you're looking for income, dividend income, large caps are the place to be. one other thing about that, because large caps have a longer history, they've been around, a track record of dividends and stock buybacks. here's something interesting, seema, 4 out of the 30 dow stocks have boosted dividend this is year. >> there you go. i hear your dividend argument, dom, but several small cap names that yield a dividend. i have a couple of examples. first, quest core pharmaceuticals, western refining, targa, they all yield a dividend. you want more. bam. take a look at these yields.

all have a dividend yield higher than the ones you just pointed out. we have seen outperformance in large cap stocks. that's yesterday's story. with a strong recovery in the u.s. economy, investors are more willing to take on risk. that's why traders have their eyes on the small caps. >> i would say there's a reason why those dividend yields are big. sometimes prices have fallen. or they might not be as stable adds large caps. let's talk about the performance. the russell 2000 i will admit is a juggernaut. it's up huge this year. up 34% so far in 2013. the s&p 500 up a respectable but underperforming 27%. what does that mean? if they track with each other, can you see that. that means the s&p can catch up, have outperformance to get to where the russell 2000 is. if you're looking for relative valuations, that's why large caps because they have room to

grow. >> i did speak to market technicians who said that russell 2000 index has more room to run. it broke the 1123 resistance level. that means this chart can continue to move to the upside. i spoke to market technicians who said, yes, this index has more room to run. december on average is time for small cap index. you cut -- >> it's a winning strategy no matter how you slice it. thank you both. >> so far, so good. >> we see that continuing. up 28 points on the dow. the s&p up about five points. both in record territory here. >> that's right. across the country, countless retail workers will be breaking holiday tradition and working. it's causing a huge backlash.

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welcome back. sorry. i'm late getting here. i was taking a selfie with santa. he's getting ready to ring the closing bell. if we hang onto these gains, it will be record highs again for the dow and s&p 500. joining us to talk about this is david nelson from bellpoint asset management and greg zioli from empire asset management. you're very skeptical about this market, aren't you? >> not at all. >> you think too many people are bullish. >> i don't think that. frankly, everybody is focused on the bubble. they're looking for their lane

nazarelli moment. >> that's a name from the past. she called the crash. >> everyone wants to predict the crash. you're made for life if you get it right. if you don't get it right, nobody remembers two months from now. i like it for that reason and i'm invested. >> what do you think? >> i agree. we're certainly on the bubble. reasonable prices. s&p was 13 times earnings. now 15 times 2014 earnings. 30-year average, less than 15-year average. i think we have room here. >> but the laws of physics last time i checked have not been repealed. this is a game of supply and demand. buy and sell. >> agree. >> we have not seen a pullback bigger than 5% nor longer than maybe a week when people buy these dips. >> if you get a 5% correction, a lot of people will come back and say that the overbought continue is gone. have you to get back in the market. that's keeping a lot of

investors out of the market. frankly, they missed the rush. >> that's for hur. this has been the most unloved rally we've seen in a long time. >> but overvalue is relative. certainly sectors in the market that are of value. utilities, probably substitutes that are high yield, i would avoid them. i agree with them, if you're a short-term investor, we're overdue for a pull back. up 6% since november. people will be looking for that pullback to go back in the market to invest. >> there's a lot of money -- >> there is. >> what should you buy? >> what's happening in energy is probably the most exciting thing in the last several decades. that's got to be good for names like the airlines -- >> airlines are up 60% this year. >> and they're going to go higher. the numbers for next year are way too low. numbers for delta will go up. trading although under ten times earnings. that's a name i like. >> i agree. i think you have to buy sectors that move with the economy, health care, manufacturing, technology, all those that lead with technology. >> you're saying this is an

early stage economy right now, growth? >> in certain sectors, yes. >> really? >> i thought we've been in a recovery since 2009. aren't we in four, five year recovery right now? >> stocks bottom in 2009. if you look at underpinnings of those stocks they didn't bottom until 2011. price earnings and book to value. we're only in a two-year recovery. prices versus fundamentals. >> we've been mediocre on the way up right now. you can see some modest more -- you know, i think more multiple expansion. you could envision getting to 18 times earnings. that would put a 2100 target on the s&p by next year. >> there you have it, another target we can go for for next year. see you both. happy thanksgiving. appreciate that very much. we'll come back with the closing countdown on this wednesday before thanksgiving. what's on the cnbc hot list right now, you ask? that's coming after the bell. stay with us. (vo) our new planes don't fly any faster.

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midday but came back. we're finishing the highs of the session with 38 points on the s&p. let's not forget, the nasdaq continues to power higher. we're at 4,045, thereabouts, with a gain of 27 points. that's a 13-year high. ben willis, i think we're becoming too bullish. i think there are too many people convinced there's only one direction for this market to go. >> i agree but the problem is that's where money flows continue to come in from. you had guys on before i came on suggesting that everybody wants to call the market crash. i'm still looking for a correction. i think it is way overbought at this point. i'm not -- i'm not bearish at all. just for the health of the market, we need that to happen. but the flow of funds is unstoppable. >> i will say, it's not the kind of market yet where we're seeing

100-point gains. we just keep hitting singles every day. yesterday we were up a like amount here. we keep doing that to set new record highs here. it's not -- it's not an explosive rally to the upside. >> this is a bull we call tina. there is no alternative. but it just continues to move, temporary to what anybody else would like to see, the technical analysis, whoever is looking at it, professionals say we have to have one. it hasn't happened. if you try to step in front of this bull, you've been hurt. >> seasonally this is strong part of the year but tendencies are out the window because of the fed policy. that has changed the game, don't you think? >> absolutely. it's manipulated the market. not necessarily for a negative. it's manipulated the market, done what it's supposed to do. my position is they should have tapered when they told the market they were going to taper. they lost credibility. the market continues to move higher. we go higher on bad news because that means tapering is going to stay. >> absolutely. happy thanksgiving to the willis family. >> same to you. >> heading to the close here.

30-point gain. that's enough for a record for the dow. five-point gain on the s&p, record there. santa ringing the bell getting ready for the thanks giving holiday. stick around. the second hour of "closing bell" now with kelly evans and company. i'll see you friday. >> wow. deja vu for markets today. dow closing at another record high for the fifth straight time in a row. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm kelly evans. here's how we're finishing up the day ahead of the holiday tomorrow on a shortened trading day on friday due to the thanksgiving holiday. looks like the dow is adding 25 points. the nasdaq adding 27. it's up two-thirds of 1%, the s&p 500 adding five points. 1807 is threshold there. 13-year highs at 1444 for the nasdaq. let's bring in the panel. joining me for the entire