30-point gain. that's enough for a record for the dow. five-point gain on the s&p, record there. santa ringing the bell getting ready for the thanks giving holiday. stick around. the second hour of "closing bell" now with kelly evans and company. i'll see you friday. >> wow. deja vu for markets today. dow closing at another record high for the fifth straight time in a row. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm kelly evans. here's how we're finishing up the day ahead of the holiday tomorrow on a shortened trading day on friday due to the thanksgiving holiday. looks like the dow is adding 25 points. the nasdaq adding 27. it's up two-thirds of 1%, the s&p 500 adding five points. 1807 is threshold there. 13-year highs at 1444 for the nasdaq. let's bring in the panel. joining me for the entire hour,

our own zach, kate, nathan and joining us to talk markets, "fast money" contributor, guy. thank you. i know we're heading into the holiday here. so much to discuss. guy, what did we learn today heading into the close? >> i think you learned traffic in new york city over the last two days has been the worst i've ever seen. light volume day. but what you've learned is the markets still wants to go higher. forget the reendz why it doesn't really matter. bill mentioned before everybody is bullish. it feels wrong. it's felt that way for the last 150, 200 s&p points. have you to let price be your guide. at some point this is going to turn. at some point we'll get a piece of news we didn't anticipate. until that point comes, you sort of have to stay with what's working. >> we've had potential point to the breakdown in social media stocks on monday, i guess. a one-time phenomenon? >> i think it may be wrong but

it feels so right. here we are, santa. i will say and keep saying until it seems to be incorrect to say it, things are doing well because they seem to be doing well. not because of market manipulation, easy money. these are supportive factors but i don't think they're fundamental factors. looking for social media stocks as a tea leaf for something broader -- >> in both cases you can look to them for something broader. >> i do agree. it has an air of irrationality at this point. i have head fund managers who say, we're starting to look uncomfortable but we need other pockets of idea. i think you see dan loeb getting into greek bonds through a dedicated fund. this is not a new idea. it's something he's been doing for a while. i think people need to look at

other -- commodities play, a -- >> a commodities mrashgs are you going there? >> we're seeing an easing of prices and a negative sentiment in terms of metals and -- >> it's a contrarian play because commodities are so hated right now, unless it's a bitcoin -- >> that's not a commodity. >> it's clearly a commodity. it's not a currency. it's gold 2.0. to kate's point, people are looking for alternatives and the fact commodities might be on the backburner. bitcoin, can you call it ridiculous, whatever you want, but clearly there's something going on -- >> that's exactly what you want because it will be undervalued and you might get in at the right entry level and see a nice upcycle. >> at some point -- not unlike the stock market this bitcoin can only imbed, at some point, this will be the future.

i think we're a few iterations away from that. >> kel y have i to tell you something. out here in the midwest, we're not new york city and we're not trading amongst ourselves. most retail investors have long since left this investor. $536 billion outfloes in equities from 2009 and 2012. we've seen $135 billion come in this year. we have institutions talking to wall street, talking to retail institutions buying retail. the average investor is still absent from the party. the only thing they know is it's not a bubble because we're selling at about 17 times trailing pe and trading 16 going forward. they're caution but they don't know when to move in. >> this is exactly -- you put your finger on it. i want to read a tweet i got earlier as well saying, this is from larry. he goes, worry this, worry that,

get a clue. you have to get in and buy stocks at these levels. all you ever hear from you, larry, saying to me is this sense, this isn't sustainable, it can't last, et cetera. nathan, when you're trying to convince clients to get into this market, are you having difficulty? what are the pushbacks you're hearing? >> i'm not having trouble getting people into stocks. the question is, how much do you aloe cat? you can't fight the fed as others to want say, the market is going up. it has to be the fed policy. until that changes, have you to have a stock strategy. you're about 65% in stocks, 35% in bonds. i'd shorten up the duration because the economy will get killed. >> we've spent a lot of time undersentiment because the market is focusing on equity and volatility of equity. we can argue if there is or

isn't. there are bonds where you have to think there will be much more volatility ahead. there will be a lot of uncertainty around when the fed tapers and how that will affect interest rate. we think about this in an equity market sense. investors have to start that cognitive bond save is risky -- >> you have to have equities as part of your long-term basket, obviously. at the same time, you need to think outside of the box because we have come so far. have you to feel like there's time for a pullback at some time in the near future which is why i think some alternatives are important. >> i want to bring dave sieberg into the conversation. just off the close, what do you think about markets here? >> i think i hear this term bubble being said left and right. do i think we're in a bubble? i don't think we're in a bubble at all.

i look at implied correlation. implied correlation, it's at a low. it's at 33. you usually get high correlation when the market is either overbought or oversold. everybody only talks about correlation when the market is oversold. we're not in a bubble situation right now. we are absolutely not. correlation, again, being a telling sign for me. it's extremely low and it's not a signal we're overbought, which is a good point -- >> the reason i like this point is is that correlation is low and the breadth in terms of the number of stocks participating in this rally are high. those are anomalies for those worried about the top of this market. >> the only bubble i see are people talking about bubbles. it's true. if you want to point to a bubble, there are two bubbles out there that should really scare people. a $4 trillion balance sheet by the federal reserve, which is clearly unprecedented and new york stock exchange margin debt

at levels we haven't seen in quite some time, if ever. those to me are the bubbles people should be talking about. >> the bubble right now is we have forgotten about the fact that congress is going to get together in january and february. surveys show when congress isn't medal i meddling, we do fine. congress will get involved between debt ceiling and budget, fun times are coming back to washington and -- >> fun times down here. mandy, welcome. >> thank you. i'm a little rain-soaked and disheveled. i ran in from the rain outside. good to be here. >> we were talking about bubbles in bubbles. if you look across the theemsz driving people to the web side, it is jeblly stocks overvalued and the kind of stoerdz like, are we about to see a crash? you can understand it because we haven't seen a corrections in over two years. >> that's an absolutely fantastic point.

i was talking with someone this morning, i think people are being complacent about whether the fed will be as accommodative as it is because they're assuming yellen is going to continue be a dove. and i'm interested in what you think about this if the market is too complacent if you come out and being more hawkish and more hawkish that the market is pricing at this stage. >> isn't qe and the sort of easing of it data-driven? we're just not there yet. sure, we saw confidence numbers that surprised us to the upside. we're seeing pockets of strength but it's not across the board. >> we'll get a good jobs number next friday. >> real quick. only one piece of data that matters. ism, consumer confidence. the only thing that matters is the unemployment rate. that ticked up to 7.3%. unless somebody knows something i don't know, for us to get down to 6% any time soon is a pipe dream. to think that you'll taper -- >> reasons that were from the

government shutdown -- >> isn't that argument for qe3? maybe it's warranted. i cut you off, zach. >> kelly, that unemployment number will go up because people will start feeling positively to search for a job. it's a contra indicator, a head fake. >> the fed will expand the balance sheet. >> all right. david, have you to go. final point before we break out of this. >> people have to get their heads around this. the easy money in this market, it's been made. when you look at correlation from the an all-time low, a stock picker's market. buy good stocks, you'll make good money. you won't make money just by following an index up and -- >> dave, a couple of top picks for people as you leave. >>. >> not necessarily favorites but names to look at are value plays within different sectors. you look at tech. there's definitely a bubble

within tech, especially in the internet names. should we be looking at value plays. you see apple take off. apple is a cheap stock. hewlett, good numbers. trading at 7 1/2 times. another cheap stock with a lot of cash. i'd be looking at names like that and selectively adding to those names versus chasing the high fliers. >> i think that's an interesting point, kelly. you when you say stock pickers' market, that's true to an extent when you have the ceo of tesla saying -- >> which i'm worried about. >> they almost talk down their own stock for fear of it getting out of hand droo we have to leave it there. thank you all. stick around for "fast money" at 5 p.m. retailers are facing the most important shopping weekend of the year. will consumers come through? we'll talk it out with the ceo of american apparel next, who's opening a budget of his stores tomorrow on thanksgiving and he'll justify that decision. taxing matters or maybe not?

do high state taxes chase away millionaires? some new stats are casting doubt on that. robert frank joins with us eye-opening details. plus, take a look at this chart. we've already hit it but bitcoin breaking through the $1,000 mark. it has nearly quadrupled this month. will this end badly? how can it not? or will the doubters be proven wron or at least won over for the time being? we'll try to answer these questions. [ bagpipes and drums playing over ]

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jane wells has been talking to consumers all day in huntington beach, california. she joins us, along with courtney reagan who has been tracking black friday developments for weeks. she's at cnbc headquarters. first to jane. what are you hearing on the streets? >> here in huntington beach, most people are -- more people are surfing than shopping. it's an unbelievable day here. what people have told me, they've already started shopping. they're buying apparel, electronics and gift cards. i saw two trends here. the first is, maybe it's a

matter of geography but most people told me they had a pretty good year and that will be reflected in nir spending. this may be orange county but california is still digging its way out of the housing bust so people are feeling better. the second thing is, they may be shopping but most people i talked to say said they are not going to shop tomorrow. one guy told me, quote, i'd rather be the turkey than go shopping on thanksgiving. >> we're going to get into a discussion about the stores being open. courtney, you heard jane, apparel, electronics, gift cards. really? >> it's amazing. gift cards is on the top of almost everyone's list, whether you're buying them or asking for them. it surprises me every year, too, because i feel like it's kind of a gift you don't have to put a whole lot of thought into. the national retail federation every year comes out with these numbers and gift cards keep moving higher and high other the lift. jane's anecdotal data matches the consumer survey data that comes in. >> can i just say that, you know, maybe it's a generational

thing. i have young adult children. they don't want gifts. they want cash. i'm telling you, i'm giving out more cash in the last few christmases than anything else. i say, get something personal, wrap it up. my kids don't want it. >> it's intergenerational wealth transfer just closeted as a holiday gesture or something. courtney, what does that mean when we look at retailers. i'll know you'll be at retailers who will benefit from this. you're giving somebody a $25 itunes gift card, that's a clear win for apple. how do you think things shake out here? >> it is another win for apple. it's another thing retailers have to compete with in addition to other economic pressures. there's not one hot it toy or gift that everybody wants. it's the gift card. i'm sure you remember how accounting works. retailers don't even get to recognize the revenue for the gift cards until you actually cash in those gift cards. that can sit on shelves.

i have a bunch in my wallet. i just forget they're there. that can pose some challenges when we quantify how successful they are. those gift cards don't count for some time. >> i keep them because i think, i'll save this for the right moment or the right purchase and then they expire. there is some wealth lost there. jane, i hate to break it to you, because that sounds like it's high on your giving list. >> that's why we give cash, the cash they will spend. i used to give gift cards. the cash they use. i doane what they spend it on. that's another discussion. >> jane, have a great holiday. i know friday you'll take the day to enjoy it. courtney, we'll see you at the mall. we hope you make it back to ohio safely as well. we should mention, courtney will be at the mall in ohio. "closing bell" will be at the mall in short hills, new jersey. i am dragging bill griffeth to short hills mall, people. you don't want to miss that.

12:00 to 2 p.m. because of the early close. retailers are on the move, trying to tap into consumer wallets, via twitter and facebook. will it pay off? we're going shopping and we're going social next.

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sales in the third quarter. with us now, paul rand, ceo of a site that garners so called word of mouth in the digital word and author of "highly recommended" which is probably highly recommended, too. thank you for joining us. >> nice to be here. >> what we wanted to focus on is ways new apps and technology is allowing retailers to take advantage of social media. what are the winning strategies? >> it's different with six less shopping days. retailers are in all out war to make spend happen. instead of good friday, we're having forever friday. the ability to go and take good friday deals all the way a week ago through the whole holiday season is coming into place. the biggest change falls in two camps. in the past, some retailers would have used three or four social channels to connect.

now most of the major ones are hitting every possible social channel out there. you're seeing online sales are up 32% using mobile device over last year. there's a huge growth, according to recent ibm data of people shopping from their mobile devices. that's a big change as well. >> just to be clear, you mean black friday, not good friday, correct? >> that's correct. >> you can look at it both ways. sounds like you're saying this is the blanket approach. the more different channels you're on in terms of social media, the better. i wonder if there's any standout? is this the pinterest holiday, for example? >> good question. i think we're looking at organizations monetize this. unquestionably facebook and twitter are playing major roles but we're seeing a lot of activity happening through pinterest. what we're seeing, though, and we can start to monetize these. the average sale from facebook is coming in at $55.

the average sale from pinterest referral is in about 116. i've seen some data is that there's four times the volume of facebook than otherwise. clearly, this idea of people are looking to the social channels, engaging and buying from. retailers are going all out. they're making sure they are reaching their consumers with all sorts of ways of engaging with them. >> but are they going to can bolize each other? i understand social media is meant to complement the bricks and mortars but do you see a time when malls empty out because people are doing shopping online, mobile? >> that's a good question. if you can buy it easily online, there's a damage on store traffic. mobile is an extraordinarily shopping experience. what you see retailers this year is use social media to enhance that shopping experience. for example, best buy is having something called vine in the

line where they're encouraging shoppers to take vine videos of their whole experience. >> do you see more of that happening where there's a virtues feedback where stores are not just the place you buy but look and then shop online? i know that's happened in the tech stores. do you see that accelerating? >> i absolutely see it accelerating. the data proves out over 90% of all consumers will tell you the reason they buy a product or service is because someone they know or trust has referred or recommended it to them. seeing one of your friends talking about it online and recommending a product is a real incentive for people to buy. and that's why you're seeing many companies but resources behind it. >> what is it about -- >> can you trust it? >> sorry. nathan, say that one more time. >> eventually, this is advertising, when you have retailers using social media. advertising ultimately gets to

be something we ask ourselves, can we trust the ultimate source, or are we being manipulated? can you go back to "mad men" or other famous tv shows, maybe this is a play to get through my phone to get to me and is that really my friend or someone dressed up like my friend? >> there's not much doubt among consumers that retailers have an interest in selling. smart retailers as well as any brands are saying, i want to engage with consumers on their terms, give them accurate, good information and give them reasons to talk and share about us. if they do that, they're usual social media in a different realm. the whole idea of making sure they're checking these things is really going to be part of the issue. >> we've seen litigation into false advertising. like if you put comments or yelp or elsewhere and say it's terrific or paid to do so, you can have the attorney general come after you.

what's unique about pinterest that's giving it added value in this online retail push this season? >> pinterest is made for retailers. you can put products up, share from there, buy from there. it's incredibly visual. and i think you're seeing some retailers that are really just setting up almost show rooms that are allowing people toll buy and look at pictures and make you purchase from them. >> the show rooming was the villain for so many years. if you can't beat them, join them. what are some strategies you're seeing. if i'm a retailer, how do i turn people to take advantage of my displays? >> what's happened -- you're right. even a couple years ago you had stores wondering if they should block internet access, you know, and wireless access in their stores to prevent this. right now you're seeing companies fully embracing it. they're actually saying, if you find a better price, we'll match it, but we want you to go online, look at reviews, take pictures, share them with your

friends and we'll make it easy for to you do that, even putting qr codes they can get information on the products. you're seeing a complete turn-about of retailers saying, i can't beat this. i'm going to join it and do better than the online guys are and i'm going to play up some social shopping aspects that make shopping fun for a lot of people. >> can i jump in with regard to best buy. they say they confronted show rooming and the shares have taken off this year because they believe they have beaten it. not just for best buy, but other retailers. at what cost, their margins to compete with the likes of amazon? >> even best buy came out this year and said, we're going to keep an eye on profit. we'll do whatever it takes to close the sale during this period. we're not going to get beat on price. i think in the final wash we'll see what kind of an impact it had on best buy and other retailers. i think you're seeing others putting programs and offers into the mix.

one of our clients is cricket wireless offering 50% off all their phones. they realized they can drive a lot of traffic by putting a great deal out there for folks. >> traffic is one thing. i think retail profits are going to be gone by christmas. that's what's going to happen. the profit margins are -- >> people are spending somewhere. >> this is true. it will be interesting to see how it shakes out. the new innovation people are using this holiday season. thank you for joining us this afternoon, sir. have a great holiday. >> thank you. you as well. >> what stories have you been diving into on your phones, tablets and computers? we'll tally it up. the cnbc.com hot list coming up next. plus, do higher state taxes drive away millionaires? our wealth editor robert frank will join us with surprising stats on that next. as we head to break, here's a look at the holiday travel scene. this time it's out in san francisco. wish we had some of that sun.

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welcome back to the program. let's get more on what one retailer is expecting from black friday and cyber monday. joining us on a cnbc exclusive is dov charney, ceo of american apparel. thank you for joining us.

want to start by asking you this move to keep stores open on thanksgiving, generating blow back from other retailers. why are you choosing to stay open? sdwli don't know if all of our stores are, but some will be. depends on the context of the market. lincoln road in miami, it's appropriate. people are traveling to miami. it's a place where they're expecting to shop. in other communities it's inappropriate. it's all about context on that issue. >> i ask partly because i know for you guys it's important to emphasize you pay, for example, your workers in your factories, decent living wage, $12, as you say, and if they're worried about having to work on thanksgiving. >> some of the people will be making clothes on thursday. it's america. we have a fluid economy. it's about the can-do spirit and we do what we have to do to create value for our customers, our employees and shareholders. there's a lot of flexibility

involved with that. of course, there has to be some sensitivities to people's personal value. it's all about balance, i think. >> do they have a choice, by the way, if they have a real problem about working on thanksgiving? >> of course. that's what the flex siblt all about. some people don't celebrate thanksgiving. some do. it's about helping the country at the same time and i think this whole issue is about balance. >> real quick. how important is thanksgiving? black friday, some people forget, gets its name from traditionally be the time of year when retailers would book a profit for the year. how critical is it for american apparel? >> in our mall stores, it's absolutely critical. it's a critical shopping festival in the united states, so we have to take advantage of. again, we're competing with -- there's worldwide competition. we have a global economy. we have to keep moving merchandise, you know, in and out of our factories and

generating a lot of revenue in order to support the business that we have. it's critically important for us and most retailer in the united states. >> yeah. we just showed your shares, down 2.5% today. certainly some concern about the latest quarter. you guys actually had quite a bit of a comeback after the difficulties during the financial crisis, had to take out some loans at high interest rate. last quarter you blamed some of the poor performance on site transition. can you explain what's going on there? >> we moved into a new distribution facility in california and it was kind of like the health care computer system. it didn't work for us in the short term. but on the long term -- we had a lot of inefficiencies related to this operation we set up. on a long term basis we expect to have a lot of efficiencies that will materialize as a result of this new distribution center. just hit us pretty hard on a short-term basis and that manifested itself into our

numbers. >> again, your trading just over $1 a share. i mean, this is -- you're hardly in the clear. just last week, in fact, speaking of which for this stock, moody's had moved and placed some of the share -- or downgraded you on worries about liquidity concerns. can you reensure investor, the market, your company will be here, will be profitable in a year from now? >> well, profitability is something we're working towards. in is a large-scale business at an early stage of its development. it may take us a number of years before we have a very high level of profitability. that being said, this is an incredible business that brings a lot of promise for shareholders on the medium and long-term basis. i'm very excited about this company. i'm very excited about american apparel. i'm the founder. but i think we'll be here for 50 years to come. we have a special way. how we do business, we offer an extraordinary product to our customers. we have a very loyal following and our brand is in excellent condition. and i think we have a great

future. and i'm proud of where american apparel has been and where we're going. >> at the same time, there's been no shortage of criticism sometimes about your management of the company. you know, you're a founder here but still ceo. do you still feel that's appropriate? are you worried you've been a distraction and it might be time to bring in someone who will be a plain vanilla management for the years to come? >> i think the team that we have in place is strong. there's additional people we could bring in to place to help make the company even stronger. but i'm proud of where i've taken things. i think we have -- i personally have a unique vision for this company. and we're going somewhere. and i think it's -- it's a wait and see kind of situation. this business is at its early stage in its development. >> what do you think -- >> just got it going. let's hit the billion dollar mark in our sales and see how this company feels, because i think we're going to get there soon. may take a couple years but we will get there. >> finally, what's flying off the shelves right now? what do people like in american

apparel right now? >> we have a lot of new denim out there for women that is checking very well for us. we have, of course, the traditional bakes like sweatshirts and t-shirts and long sleeves and thermals. we think we have an exciting offering of basics that are timeless in many cases. we have an energized customer. we're looking forward to serving them. great -- i think there's a lot of great products for people to come and see, so come check out what we're doing because we're working hard. >> like the made in america label as well. dov charney, thank you for joining us. we'll see you if the shares can rebound as well. thank you. have a good one. >> thank you very much. >> brother, can you spare a bitcoin? probably not. the virtual currency pierced $1,000 for the first time ever today. it was trading about $200 a month ago. what's behind the move and how will it all play out? we'll toss that one around when "closing bell" continues. ♪

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so call... to talk with an insurance expert about everything that comes standard with our base auto policy. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? welcome back. i'm guessing highway strafk on your mind given what's happening this thanksgiving holiday, especially with the weather. forget about it for a minute. we'll give you what's moving and shaking internet traffic on cnbc.com. >> hi. our readers are getting their last licks in before the t-day

feast. i've got three editions they've been gobbling up. first is from robert frank. he did this wonderful piece, taking a look at the question of whether or not high taxes actually chase away millionaires. you'd be surprised at the findings. and i think you'll have him on a little later. so, i don't want to steal his thunder. >> don't ruin it for us, alan. that's popping, so people are interested. >> you'd be surprised. people have been reading it by the thousands all day long. now, i've got two others people are really diving into right now. first one, you were talking about retail. the story that's been kicking it for us is a look at overstock stores and the kind of epic bargains they are offering people. they messed up their inventory, interest rate topcy tufsh y they don't want to hold that, so they're giving people the deals. people are eating that story up, so to speak. finally, obama care. you know, kelly, it always does well for us. that's a subject that our readers just love to investigate. this time we have a write-up of

the analyst on the kudlow show, talking about rationing health care under the new system. a touchy topic and our readers are very interested in it. >> rationing in there, i'm not terribly surprised. i think i'll have to read that one myself. thanks very much. we hope you'll battle the actual traffic and come out okay as well as the internet traffic he battles every day. love it. >> how come he was the lucky one that was allowed to stay at the mothership and we were all shipped down here. >> you love traveling in the rain the day before thanks giving. >> and having a panic attack because i wouldn't make it at the top of the show. love that. >> i have a question about retail, though. in terms of managing inventory, that seems key to me. i tried to do christmas shopping online today and everything was sold out. >> you found actually they're undersupplied. in is something. we've seen a theme that inventory was high relative to sales. >> this was pottery barn kids. i don't know if this managed inventory particularly well so they have this scarcity stuff. basic stuff i wanted to get for kids, i couldn't get it.

>> they're leaving sales on the table. it's a tough situation. i want to get to robert frank because alan mentioned this story. we have the man behind it. robert frank, please tell us what's going on. >> there's a huge debate in new york, raising the taxes on the rich. i took a look at millionaire populations in each state, how they've grown over the past year and then i overlaid the tax rates on top of that. what i found, in fact, is that some of the highest tax states have the most gains in multimillionaires. the number one state for gaining multimillionaires was california. they also happen to be the number one state when you look at their tax rate. created 16 00 new multimillionaires, followed by florida, they have zero income taxes. new york, a very high tax state. texas, really mixed bag at the top. that's population-based group. you look at percentage growth, massachusetts was ranked number one. and the city with the most new millionaires over the past year was new york city. again, a 12-plus percent when

you add in the city and state. the bottom line here is, you know, both sides are wrong when they say that tax rates determine the number of millionaires. you know, particularly those who say that if you tax the wealthy, they will leave -- >> zach is dying to get in here. >> i'm glad you did this study. it shows this is such an ideological based discussion. i suppose you could take your argument and say higher rates cause millionaires. that would be the wrong argument to make. >> now, wait a minute. let me play devil's advocate. say you have a society where stock market is increasing, people are getting money because of that, the value of their assets is increasing, maybe the tax rate is moving higher for other reasons, you want to fund expansion of programs and those people are spending. i see nothing contradictory about that. >> the other thing that's intrigui intriguing, there are people who live where they live because they wish to live where they live. unless attack rates --

>> people live where they live because that's where they make their money, eventually they move. otherwise we'd all be living in mississippi. we have 40% more millionaires in ohio than we did last year. that has to be a function of maybe energy and business. has nothing to do with portfolios. >> robert, isn't the bottom line a place like new york city is, to a certain extent, sort of tax proof because there are so many jobs here, so many wealth creation here? there's a high ceiling on how much you can raise taxes before people actually flee? >> yeah. it's not tax proof. if you raise it on the curve, people will leave. the broader point is that swelt so dynamic. you have people making and losing fortunes all the time. older people retiring and moving to florida. wealth 1k3 and the population and mobility is so dynamic in america, within the states, thaw can't just say, if you just change one variable, i.e., taxes, that's going to reduce --

>> i would say, the evans family has some experience in high property taxes driving them from, say, a state like new york to virginia where they were a tenth of the size. robert, at 140 characters, what's the laugher curve? >> it's basically says at a certain point if you raise taxes high enough, depending on, you know, all the other variables, people will leave. it affects their spending, their ability to work, their desire to work and where they live. >> but is the converse necessarily true? i think your online story you said a place like kansas with a rel live relatively low tax rate is not seeing population growth. what does that tell us? >> it tells you the economy is not growing millionaires. on the flipside, people had different pieces they liked. conservatives looked at the losers. the states that lost millionaires, new jersey, vermont, connecticut, which are very high taxed states. they were the biggest losers. they could look at that and say, see, this is proof high taxes

does chase away millionaires. >> we have a.g. lafley running procter & gamble but resident of sarasota, florida. we can't pigeon hole. there's not one specific driver. we can't move procter & gamble but a.j. could move where he wanted to move. >> there's always puerto rico. >> i looked at the wealthiest because they're the most mobile, lease dependent on jobs and pay the most capital. >> a little tongue in cheek, but it you're wealthy, you have access to the best creative accountants, the kind that diminishes whatever the tax rate is. >> absolutely. >> robert frank, thank you for bringing that to us. you can read it online, which they are apparently doing in droves. $1 sthou, bitcoin topping milestones and happened quickly. how might this end for the virtual currency? we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us.

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liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? well it's all the talk today. bitcoin boom hitting the thousand dollar mark for the first time. >> you know, we have seen a pretty amazing move in bitcoin

in the last month or so. today i was speaking to barry congressional hearings held about bitcoin last week and that is what has been driving bitcoin lately. a lot of people from wall street from their own personal money, managers and traders, etc. they are getting a lot of inquiries who say their clients want it. >> and going into the hearings on capital hill, there was worry abo about. >> it was not accuse tory. they were more educational in nature. this technology may have value. what it is yet we're not quite

sure. >> there is going to be a bitcoin black friday. there are retailers out there who will be taking them. >> that chart -- >> the chart is definitely scary to look at. >> still it contains some value. >> exactly. >> we will keep the questions. >> here is the founder of bitcoin black friday. he will tell us how he is capitalizing on the bitcoin

craze coming up. also, we have been receiving a bunch of tweets about bitcoins and stories being opened on thanksgiving. we will highlight the doozies. we will be back in just a moment. to generate income? with fidelity's options platform, we've completely integrated every step of the process, making it easier to try filters and strategies... to get a list of equity options... evaluate them with our p&l calculator... and execute faster with our more intuitive trade ticket. i'm greg stevens, and i helped create fidelity's options platform. it's one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account. stick with innovation. stick with power. stick with technology. get the flexcare platinum. new from philips sonicare.

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welcome back. and finally you have been tweeting. we have been reading your tweets. here are some of the best ones of the day. only when a pick a guard that says do not pass go will i actually acknowledge bitcoin. and finally, when asked about shopping on thanksgiving. instead of being with my family. i like that people get a little sarcast sarcastic. >> the sad truth is they will meet plenty of people who do that. >> he is on to something. i was reading about it today. a lot of people think it is un-american to have the stores open and encourage people not to break bread with their families. >> what if you're a worker and you would like a little bit of extra income around the holidays and you don't mind and thanksgiving allows you to get a

little extra in your paycheck. >> there is always, whatever holiday, there is always people who put their hand up that says i will work for that pay. >> and they are changing all the laws, there have been more and more states where you can sell liquor on sundays. >> we can also make a case that they will stay open because it's thanksgivi thanksgiving-kah. >> are you celebrating it? >> it's a once in a lifetime occurrence. >> as for bit coin, i know people will be talking about this. 21 million can never exist.

there is like 12 million today. >> you have a finite sum of assets and a lot of liquidity. there will be a lot of good digital currency. i have a hard time that bitcoin is going to transform that development. >> there really was no bid. there just wasn't. they held an option one day and nobody bid and was over. so when it ends it will happen abruptly. >> it is not impossible that bitcoins go to zero. >> they will have a future as soon as the government can figure out how to regulate and tax them. >> especially on this wednesday, really appreciate it. i hear that you have got the bitcoin black friday? >> finally, doesn't this make this thing a mainstream sort of

currency? >> it's on "fast money". >> fast bitcoin. that's the wave of the future. >> okay cupid the dating site are now using bit coins. >> the second year in a row for the bitcoin black friday. >> it's going to be great. have a great thanksgiving. >> fast money starts right now. here is tonight's line up. the apple break out rallying to some of the highest levels of the year. wendy's ditching its pretzel bacon cheese burger. can