portfolio. if you don't own one of those i talk about all the time, today was day one. there's always a bull market somewhere. i promise to try to find it just for you right here at "mad . the obamacare effect is now in full force. the latest nbc news wall street journal bomb has president obama at his lowest approval rating ever and the democrats lose a key special house election in florida. as many as 12 democratic senators are now deemed vulnerable in the november election. we have the latest from s inbc' chuck todd just ahead. and speaking of obamacare, the individual mandate is basically dead. most of the news media may not have caught on, but the latest change exempts virtually anyone willing to fill out a simple form. and can president obama just change overtime pay rules by

executive order? no, he cannot. this is a free country. this is free enterprise. he has no right to dictate compensation to our company. all those stories and much more coming up in the kudlow report beginning right now. welcome to the kudlow report. it's 7:00 p.m. here on the coast and 4:00 p.m. out west. let's start with the fallout from the special election in florida. the poll has very bad news for the president. and the democrats. we welcome back nbc news chuck todd. so republican david jolly defeats alex sink. that's a race the democrats should have won. what does it mean, how do you read this? >> this is a case where you had the testimonies had the better on the ground organization and

campaign if you look over a lemont period. this was a special election, so everything got shortened a little bit. the republican candidate, david jolly, this was the fourth choice of the national party. they tried to recruit a whole bunch of other people. his first name was lobbyist as you and i both know. being a lobbyist is usually a four letter word. so everything on paper on the ground was advantage to the democrats, it's a swing district and swing state. they had the more experienced candidate. and what happened is what was going to trump what. national environment versus on the ground organization. and national environment, the political environment in that district, which is mirroring what we're seeing in our own bomb which poll which is the dual message of anti-president and apity health care was enough to fire up republican voters. but the big -- to me the big missing piece of this puzzle for the democrats is a local bufshlg of democrats who voted for president obama twice in this

district show up. and that's the question democrats are asking themselves, why. >> i think the message here, obamacare extremely unpopular. i think the democratic response, which is emanating from the white house for minimum wage and today they're talking about overtime pay, that stuff may sound good, but when you look at the ratings of issues, it doesn't rate. they're all way down the list. they're not heavy weight issues. the two big issues i think, obamacare, jobs and the economy. that's it. >> well, that's right. and it is jobs. that's been the problem. if you go to the health care issue, alex sink did a very good job in dealing with the mend it don't end it messaging that democrats have been coming up with, which is to say they want to repeal, you don't with a that i want to fix it. that was the alex sink add.a th i want to fix it. that was the alex sink add. on the numbers, that message at least brings democrats even on health care. but that's still a defensive message.

it's still not what are you going to do. if democrats get elected, what is the proactive position democrats will take and you're right, they're trying to find an economic agenda that connects, but none of this is connecting. there is this feeling of stagnation. we talked to a whole bunch of stro voters. they said the economy is not working so well, why isn't it getting better. >> they're not worried about overtime, they're not worried about minimum wages. ordinary folks are worried about getting a job. anyway, chuck todd, you're great to come visit with us. >> larry, i hope to get on one more time and then you have to come to a victory tour of my shows. >> thank you, sir. appreciate it. all right. you now, even democrats know how crucial this special election was. take a listen to what pundit mark halperin had to say yesterday. >> if democrats lose this seat, into the good sign. >> it's a district they should

win with a strong candidate. so if they lose it, sometimes the national media turns something into a bellwether. this one is a pretty good bellwether. >> so it sure looks like a sign of more trouble to come for the democrats in november. let's talk. here now to discuss it, we have democratic strategist steve mcmahon, republican strategist phil muser. and florida statehouse speaker will weatherford. will, let me begin with you. mend it don't end it. that did not work for alex sink. mr. will it work in the general election or do people just want to change the whole darn health care plan? >> first of all, they have been trying to run away from this bill ever since they voted for it. it's been four years since they passed the affordable care act and they're still trying to hide from that vote. mend it and don't end it won't work. and this district was a bell

wit. peop bellwether. david jolly was the underdog you but he one for three reasons. he had a great ground game.daviu but he one for three reasons. he had a great ground game. and the president is a liability for all democrats. and obamacare is unpopular in the state of florida. >> steve mcmahon, you look at the "wall street journal" poll, president down to 41% approval. 65% think wrong track. 57%, this is a killer, steve, 57% believe the u.s. is still in recession. that is extraordinary. now, my point is a simple one. besides the handicap of obamacare, there is the handicap of the economy. 4, 4 1/2 years into it, folks know in a this is such a tepid recovery and it's not creating jobs. i don't see how the democrats get out from under those two problems. obamacare and a terrible

economy. >> well, in the game of rock, paper, scissors, your analysis was right. people are concerned about the economy and jobs first. and think dwms win when they talk about what kind of an economy do we want to have. do we want an economy that works just for the very wealthy, you because they're doing quite well already. and most people feel like the economy isn't working very well for them. that's where democrats have an advantage over republicans. frankly, it's where democrats need to take the argument this year. health care reform, you see the numbers. i won't pretend like the numbers aren't great. they're not. and about democrats are arguing over health care reform, they will get to even with mend it don't end it. but we can win on the economy. that's what happened in 2012. obamacare was on the ballot in 2012, too, and in this district, president obama won because he was talking about the economy. >> that's before we knew about the website and stifled the tea party groups. phil, i'll make a bet the gop

needs to keep attacking on obamacare. i think they should say let's stop it, put a moratorium on it, let's stop the tape and let's completely redo obamacare and health care. but the other point is republicans do need a growth message. only 58% of the country is working right now. i don't think it's about the minimum wage. i don't think it's about overtime. i think it's about basically getting a job which they're not getting. and i think that is a republican advantage if they can have a message. >> it's hard to organize and develop and drive a national message, but if you look at other election years that are shaping up like this leading in to 1994 will, obviously newt gingrich could fashion a forward looking contract with america plan. purchase party should remember that and articulate a message about the alternative. but just unpacking these numbers a bit, i did want to touch on one thing which is that 41%

number is a truly historic low. when a president is under 45, you see house races in the 40s to 50s in terms of loss in attriti attrition. that number polls california, new york, a bunch of other places. states that are swing states for senate races like arkansas and mop tan i montana and north carolina, the president is in the mid 30s. >> i get you on that. but in a sense i kind of hate that. i know all about that. but that doesn't win elections. the fact that -- first of all, president is not on the ballot. will, i want to go back to you. we had marco rubio on the other night. he has a very good economic growth message. regular places, taxes, energy, education, things of that sort. there are many republicans now, senator johnson is coming up with a plan, paul ryan has a plan. a lot of them. eric cantor has a plan. to me, the republicans have got

to be careful. it's only march. everybody hates obamacare. i get that. the numbers are very clolow. i get that, too. but the gop has to show a path. this is the connection they didn't make in 2012. they have to show the path where the middle class will have higher take home pay and better jobs. and my question to you is, in florida, all your people running for congress and so forth, is there a better way? is there an economic message that will appeal to the middle class? >> there absolutely a better way. and in fact we're not running away from that debate, we're running to that debate. obamacare is not going anywhere. that will be around no matter how hard the democrats try to take it off the table. our growth message is simple. we're not interested in class we warfare, we're not interesting in conversations about equality. we're talking about growth. the way you grow economy is two ways. you have an education system that lifts people out of poverty and gives them an opportunity to

change the trajectory of their life and you also embrace the free enterprise system and not attack it. >> obama just made my opinion, this whole thing, he will use an executive order to order american companies how and who to pay overtime. this is -- republicans should really rebel. this is anti-free market. this is anti-free enterprise. this is anti-american freedom. steve mcmahon, it ain't going to help you you, you but i want to ask you this. i got -- >> you guys are all here to help me, right? >> i got charlie cook. just want to get your take. charlie has 10 to 13 democratic seats in jeopardy. he has two republican seats in jeopardy. what is your take on this? it's not just begich and landrieu and pryor. it's stuff that goes to udall and shaheen.

it could even be gillespie in virginia runs against mark warner. in other words, steve, you've been in the consulting game a while. objectively how bad is the democratic story right now here in the middle of march? >> i won't sit here and pretend like the president's numbers are something the democrats are gleeful about, but if you look at where the electorate is today and you compare to 2012 when president obama was going into re-election, two things. the sour mood of the electorate was present then and many thought whoever the republican nominee was would beat president obama. and what happens is there is a reason that you have a campaign and there is a reason that you have an election. and that is because you cannot -- it's one thing for people to say i'm in the happy with the economy or the in-consume bent. it's quite another thing to say i prefer the alternative.the in-consume bent. it's quite another thing to say i prefer the alternative. and as the republicans nominate tea party candidate, you'll see

that the voter in the middle, the independent and swing voter that ultimately decides these elections will look at the alternative and say, you know what, i may have some problems with the incumbent, but i like him a heck of a lot better than the alternative. that's what happened in 2012. >> i agree. and i want to end this with will. i think steve mcmahon makes a very good point. republicans licked their chops too early in 2012. and it turned out what they were banking on, which was a lousy economy, didn't pay off because they didn't have a good message that reached out to a lot of middle class voters and minorities. will, this time republicans smacking their chops too soon or will they have a substantive message? because what steve says is right. this is not over until it's over. these are just polls in march. and obama is not on the ballot. >> we're not smacking our chops at all. i think the david jolly/alex

sink race was an appetizer. we're still waiting on the main course in november. and i can assure you, we're not scared of an economic debate in this country. we don't want a country that is focused on dependency. we want a country focused on opportunity and one that embraces the free enterprise system. it's not just a winning message. it's what built america to what it is today. and we can still embrace those principles, we can embrace the idea of education and equal opportunity and we can turn this country around and i think we're ready for that debate and i think it's a winning message. >> don't forget take home pay. don't forget after tax take home pay. i didn't make this up. i learned it from the master. the master was ronald reagan. and that's what attracts the middle class. steve mcmahon, you're a great sport. will and phil, as always, thanks. folks, we had a lot of action in the oil markets today after the obama administration announced an unexpected sale from the

strategic petroleum reserve. was this a message to russia? what's it say about our shale boom and has it changed energy for the entire world? we'll talk about oil and stocks next up. and later on, i say the individual mandate in obamacare is now dead. and actually team obama killed it themselves. once again don't forget free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. this mandate by president obama to dictate overtime pay is the antithesis of free market capitalism and that's why i don't like it. don't like it. (music) defiance is in our bones.

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it take a look at the price of crude oil dropping $2 today on settling below 98 bucks. the move was tied to the energy department's unexpected announcement for a, quote, test release of strategic oil reserves. what does it mean for the stock market and ukraine and everything else? let's welcome back our great friend dennis gartman and jim paulson. dennis, let me begin with you. i went back and looked at this.

over the last 25 years, we've had oil sales out of the strategic petroleum reserve ranging between 11 million barrels, that was during katrina, and 30 million barrels a couple years ago during the libyan crisis. 5 million barrels is the lowest by far we've ever done. so how do you read this? >> well, i think it's clearly just a political attempt on the part of the president to do what he can to send a message to the russians that, hey, we have one weapon here that we can use and it will be cheap oil. we have it coming. we have it in the reserve. we can use it. it's a test. nothing more. it was something i talked about last week that we should be prepared for this. i wasn't surprised when the announcement was made, and it ended up putting untoward and i think very real and substantive pressure on the front future futures. it's nothing more than a political employ.

i wish he hadn't done it you because it's a good move for him, but it's political and nothing more than that. >> jim paulson,ou because it's a good move for him, but it's political and nothing more than that. >> jim paulson,u because it's a good move for him, but it's political and nothing more than that. >> jim paulson, because it's a good move for him, but it's political and nothing more than that. >> jim paulson,because it's a good move for him, but it's political and nothing more than that. >> jim paulson, i'm not sure we need much strategic petroleum reserve anymore with the phenomenal revolution in oil and gas. but i'd like to see the president announce support for the keystone pipeline. i'd like to see him say we're going to permit another 20 liquid natural gas facilities so that we can get that moving in a couple years get it over to europe and take you putin's power away. in other words, i'd like to have seen him say that. to me 5 million barrels, i don't know what it does. >> i don't think it does much either. and i think it fits with the pattern of things he's trying to do of late that he could do out of the executive branch, whether it's the minimum wage or whether it's ordering by executive order for overtime pay. and now a small but political

motivated movement in the petroleum reserve. i don't know if it has much long lasting value. i think that the energy miracle in america is the result of finally allowing the free market price to rise in this country after 25 years of presidents disallowing it. and when it did finally go up from $20, $30, to $100, the rig count has exploded seven-fold over the time from its low just prior to the '08 crisis. and i think it's a great kudlow moment. what ultimately happened was we allowed free market capitalism and suddenly the energy crisis is solved. >> it happened under their nose. they didn't expect to happen. and it trackit happened with th fracking revolution. >> dennis, what is your stock market outlook? >> it's still a bull market. the energy revolution that is taking place in the united states is going to be

extraordinarily supportive if we can just have better policies coming out of washington, lower taxes as you called for for a long time, stock prices could go take dramatically higher five years from now. >> let's abolish the corporate tax. jim, you're not as benign as dennis. >> i think over the long term the market has a ways to go mainly because the recovery does. i think it will be a long lasting recovery. but i think this year it will be pretty volatile yet. i wouldn't be surprised if we get a little inflation panic. and we have a 10% correction before the year is out in stocks. so this year could be a little rough, but then it might restart and go higher yet before we finally have the next recession. >> i can't resist. dennis, are you worried about inflation? i'm watching all these metals prices falling. in fact outside of a few food things, i don't see inflation in the commodity market.

do you? >> there really isn't. given what happened today in the energy markets, that takes that problem away for a while. copper, tin, zink, lead, all falling off the edge of a cliff. you had some strength in the grain markets, but i think that has been predicated mostly upon what has happened in the ukraine. i'm not that concerned about inflationary pressures. >> i'm die to go short gold. i'm not in that game, but i'm dying to short gold. anyway, dennis gartman, thank you. jim paulson, appreciate your help on this show down through the years. the new prime minister of ukraine has just wrapped up a meeting with president obama. is this going to lead to some real sanctions with real teeth against russia and the oligarchs? kayla tausche has more on that next. next. there's a saying around here, you stand behind what you say. around here you don't make excuses.

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welcome back to the kudlow report. i'm kayla tausche with in news alert. the new ukranian prime minister meeting with president obama at the white house today. he says we will never surrender to russia. president obama affirming u.s. support for ukraine, rejecting the vote in crimea and saying the world community will be forced to apply costs to russia if it continues its current course. meanwhile in new york city, the collapse of two buildings following an explosion has killed three and injured 69 people. the explosion now is believed to have been caused by a gas leak. a resident reportedly called con

edison to complain of a gas smell just 15 minutes before the eruption. officials warn there may still be people in the rubble. nine people are still unaccounted for. tragic situation that is still developing. >> not too far from my wife's art studio. so it is tragic. i just want to say one thing about the meeting with ukraine and the united states. the g-7 issued a statement today. i've been backing obama all the way and he's talking tough sanctions, individual sanctions. what the statement today from the g-7 was so wussy. all they said was we remind the russians that there be no preparations before the g-8 sochi meeting. didn't mention sanctions of any kind. and rudy giuliani was on this show last night and said he believes the president will follow through. and i hope rudy is correct. but you didn't see any hint of that in this g-7 document. >> it sounded like they felt the

threat itself was enough to move help closer to the table. but talks still suspended. we'll see what happens there. >> anyway, many thanks, kayla tausc tausche. even as the obamacare sign up deadline gets closer and closer, the rate of people actually signing up gets slower and slower. but guess what? i think it's all moot. i say the individual mandate is dead and i'm going to explain why along with two obamacare experts, that's next up. please stay with us. ease stay w. those little things still get you. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach,

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welcome to what's next. comcastnbcuniversal. are you ready for this some kudlow point of view. the obamacare individual mandate is now dead. it's done. it's nixed. no more. they have three years to sign up. but if your options are more sgens sif, you never have to renew it and never be penalized. the key words hardship and unaffordable quote/unquote will take a lot of people off the list. so now it's time to just end the mandate all together. that's my point. just end it. obama is doing it himself. and while they're at it, end all the tax penalties and end the

insurance bailouts. in other words, go back to my moratorium idea. it's time to take a three year time-out. a redo in order to make america healthy. we're joined now by tip top health care experts who both know vastly more about this than i do. first of all, former omb associate director jim capretta. and we welcome back dr. gottlieb. both of you have it help me. jim, the way i read it, and i read it through the "wall street journal" editorial and other commentaries. basically if you get canceled, you never have to renew if you can prove that the renewal will be more expensive than obamacare. and there is a weird clause that says if anybody, anybody, can't find something that is less expensive, they can get out, too. is that true? >> well, look, i think they left it very ambiguous.

they do not want to send the signal while enrollment season is still open that they will exempt everybody from the individual mandate. but you're right, they wrote that provision to be purposely vague so they could potentially be read later to exempt many more people. obviously it was aimed first and foremost at the people that got canceled policies in 2013. and they're saying to them you're definitely off the hook for the mandate in 2014. and now in 2015 and '16, if you want to get out from under it. i think the real issue is fairness. how do you justify exempting people that had insurance in 2013 al be it with a canceled policy, but then impose the mandate on the uninsured who presumably couldn't afford coverage in the first place. i i think that's a really hard sell. >> scott, you're at three years now. that was my original moratorium idea. and the business mandate is two years and that will go to three years. so why not scrap the whole bloody thing? scott, who do you believe is

going to buy health care, obamacare, under the existing individual mandate which has been changed again? >> right. well, effectively everyone can get out from under the mandate. the loophole is very large. and the other thing is that in terms of getting out from under the mandate, you can also now buy those catastrophic plans intended for the young invincible. so anyone who can say they're eligible to get out from the mandate, it's easy to qualify. you can buy the catastrophic only plan. >> but that's a good thing. the president was wrong from day one. because -- look, you guys are experts. but i know a little bit about insurance. what obamacare is not insurance. it's some sort of hmo, pre-plan, pre-finance health care living plan. insurance is when something real bad happens, all right, like i crashed my car and a that's when

i bring in the insurance company. so what is wrong where druyoung people just having catastrophic? >> but you have to appreciate the irony. the president didn't want the so-called bad apple plans. they were low cost and they ensured people against catastrophic risk. now they're basically putting out a regulation saying anyone can have it. so you have to appreciate the irony here. i'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but -- >> they're dismantling -- jim, i think my pal scott has it halfway right. i don't question obama's motives. we've had a lot of these experts from the academic people on the show. but i also think that the left has for decades wanted to take over the american health care sector. period. whatever it's going to be. 16%, 18%, 20% of the economy. that is their goal. inequality and everybody gets the same wage, and all the rest,

but they have wanted to take over health care and this is just one more chapter of why central planning is a disaster. that's it. >> great iron ay here. they're ambivalent because compels america or tries to force americans to pay a lot of premiums to private health insurance plans. and for many people who assumed the health care law, that's the enemy, not the friend. >> i love that. >> and push comes to shove, jim, we'll bail them out. >> absolutely. >> so the insurance companies, they might have been the winners here. who knows what will happen. >> the other thing to keep in mind, this mandate is very weak. if you're forced to pay it, which it looks like nobody will be forced to pay it, could you not buy the compliant obamacare plans, pay the $2,000 mandate, that's as much as it will be in 2016 for a family of four, and still go in to the market and buy a cheaper plan than what

you'd have to do under obamac e obamacare. so you you figure a $2,000 mandate, you pay it, buy an $8,000 hsa, that's still a lot cheaper than having to buy the $16,000 obamacare plan. to make it work, they always have to increase the mandate. >> jnlg roberts should be ashamed of himself for redoing this as a tax hike which is the pot going to happen. all this stuff will have to end up. jim, final point. mob is b nobody is buying it. whatever "it" is. i'm not sure i know what it is. 940,000 in february. only a quarter of them who joined the exchanges actually were uninsured. so nobody is doing this anyway. >> right. and i think that's really one of the reasons why for this business about the individual mandate to start emerging right now. i think there are a lot of democrats figuring out, hey, if you allow this individual mandate tax to go in to effect, it will apply to 10 million or 15 million people that didn't want to buy a health plan in the

obamacare exchange. so this tax will apply if they enforced to a lot of people and that's a huge political problem for they wim. they say 4 million or so have signed up for the exchanges. it's less than that because a lot of people aren't paying. medicaid maybe 2 million to 3 million. so they're well short of insuring the uninsured. it's not popular and that's one of the main reasons why they're realizing forcing people into it is a political disaster. >> good note to finish on. political disaster. scott, the iron any y is the democrats will lose six, eight, ten seats, lose the senate for a health care plan that the president is unraveling himself. that's what i love about this. he created it, he put it out there. he created falsehoods around it. people who were smart not stupid

figured the game out and they're not playing and now they're ending it on their open. and for all of that manipulation in the space of, what, four, five, six months, they will wind up losing the senate. and i think that is some of the dumbest political thinking i have ever seen. and i've been around long enough to have seen some real dumb political things. this one takes the cake. you get the last word. >> and unfortunately, a lot of people were hurt along the way because there are a lot of consumers who were perfectly happy in their existing coverage and saw their rates go up because of the regulation. >> great point. both of you. kch can't thank you enough. as a high u.s. treasury official, he was the man who crafted the t.a.r.p. bank bailout. now he's running for governor in california. that is neel kashkari. he's about to join us and tall about his bid to up seat jerry brown in the golden state.

and later on, president obama says he'll change the rules on overi i'time pay by executive decision. no. this is a free company. he has no right to tell companies how to pay their people or run their businesses. would we'll debate it in a couple minutes. minutes. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge.

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because when people talk, great things happen. democrats swept every statewide office in california in 2010. but four years later, with state unemployment still stuck above 8%, republicans see an opening. and they could challenge democratic governor jerry brown who some say is to blame for the downfall of california's middle class. joining us now is former assistant u.s. treasury secretary and former pimco managing director turned california republican gubernatorial candidate mr. neel kashkari. welcome back to the show. i was reading some of your stuff here. i know you haven't put out detailed papers. but you're talking a lot about jobs and education. i have a jobs thing i want to put on the table for you. california should go into oil and gas, shale fracking.

you've got the resources. that is a tremendous -- look at north dakota which is not so far from california. why don't you neighborit 't you issue? >> you're singing my tune. thanks for having me. oil and gas is the single biggest jobs potential bar none. hundreds of thousands of good jobs and we can do it while protecting the environment. we can do both. and that will be a big part of my plan. i'm with you 100%. >> there was a time when california was a leading oil producing state. and you're right, those are very high paying jobs. if you go out to the dakotas, you're talking 80,000, 100,000 jobs for the field people and whatnot. that's probably not even on jerry's radar screen. >> this is classic jerry brown. he talks about it, moves a bit, but nothing really happens. so he'll getting some flack from the left because they want him to ban fracking completely. he's not willing to do that. but he's also not willing to open it up and really create good jobs. so we have to moving a agrees

s sif aggressively. no there is no sense of urgency. we have the fifth unemployment rate in america and no sense of urgency. we need to put people back to work. >> one of your other issues is education. and you're saying that california ranks near the bottom. 46th in education if my numbers are correct. so i got this mayor in new york city who has just stopped three or four charter schools even though they're outperforming the public schools. what is your take on charter schools and vouchers and school choice? >> we need to give parents as many choices as poll. i'm outraged and i don't know why the democratic establishment isn't. mayor de blasio is just publishing children trying to get a good education. we need to give parents choices. my family is a family of

immigrants. i got one gift from my parents, the gift of a good education. he i want every kid in california to get that good he had skags and if that means a charter school, so be it. if it mean as great traditional public school, so be it. we need to give parents choices. >> the question is you can take some public money and help will the charter schools. or raise it privately which is also being done here in new york city. i mean, before de blasio, and he'll lose this, i guarantee you, he'll lose this to public opinion, charter schools, new york has been a path breaker for charter schools. if you can do it here, as i said, this is a blue, blue, a blue state. you can do it out there. >> absolutely. we actually have a lot of charter schools in california and i like charter schools. i want to encourage more charter schools. but i also want to fix the traditional public schools. charter schools require that there is a mom or dad who is thoughtful enough or engaged enough to decide to send that kid to charter schools. some parents aren't involved or don't know enough. so we have to fix the traditional public schools, 00.

but i think charter schools are part of the whole solution. >> of course i'll raise the point about taxes. governor of texas rick perry has made a national tour, he calls it the texas model. they have no income tax and they created half the jobs in america the last four or foof yeive yea. even by new york standards, you have a high tax. what will your tax policy be? >> our taxes are too high in california. they're poorly designed, destroying jobs. and we're not getting our money's worth for the taxes that we're cleollecting. i want to start by putting people back to work. if we lower unemployment rate, have a lot more taxpayers, then we'll be in a stronger position to reform our tax code and ultimately lower our tax rates. i want to start with putting people back to work and step two is lowering taxes. >> aren't you losing people to nevada once again and, yes, to texas and other states like that? do you have the luxury of waiting a couple years?

>> it's a huge issue. you're right. people are leaving the state. jobs are leaving the state. rick perry comes here. i don't see jerry brown going to texas and saying hey bring your factories to california because they would laugh at him. we have to make the economy competitive. grow our economy. put people back to work. then we can do a lot with the state bringing our tax code back making it reasonable again. >> all right. we'll leave it there. many thanks. neel kashkari. good luck on the campaign tour. folks, president obama expected to issue an executive order tomorrow changing overtime pay rules. it sounds like another move that will drive down hiring. it's going to kill existing jobs. the government has no business telling free enterprise companies what to pay and who to pay. this is soviet style central planning. and we'll talk about it up next. s command performance sales event has begun. ♪ command the power... ♪

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the anti-business obama white house strikes again. now president obama wants to use executive authority to tell companies how much overtime they should pay. wait a minute. in our free enterprise system, government has no business telling companies who to pay, how much to pay, when to pay and any other business decision. what we've got here is a little old style soviet central planning. and i don't like one bit. here we have two old friends of the show and i'm glad to welcome

them both back. dean baker and dan mitchell. dean, i have to tell you, you know what bothers me about this? the executive order to order businesses to do something. i don't care -- you want to give more money, set up a wage subsidy or some darn thing. but the presidents of this country have no business telling businesses how to run themselves. that's what infuriates me. >> if the minimum wage is soviet style central planning, you'll make the soviet union very popular. let's keep our eye on the ball. we already have a minimum wage. that's not what we're arguing. we're talking about sal iried workers. if i'm hiring someone and paying them $20 an hour and i say i want you to work 45 hours a week, i have to pay them overtime. that's the law. president obama says suppose i'm clever and i go i'm not paying $20 an hour, i'll pay you $800 a

week under the current law, i don't have to pay that worker overtime. that doesn't make any sense, larry. what he's saying is let's make it symmetric. >> no, what it's saying is i'm going to do it alone without the concept of the laeelected representatives of the american people. >> he has the authority to do that. >> i don't know who gave him that authority, but it ought to be taken back. i mean that. >> presidents have done that in the past. >> bush did it, dan mitchell, and bush was just as wrong even though the numbers were smaller. minimum wage is a lousy way to help people. it causes job losses. that's whaech tt even the cbo s. but since when does our government tell business how to run and who to pay? this is something new. and the numbers here are getting larger. that's what i don't like. >> larry, you're on a roll. we need you on the air another 20 years. otherwise we'll never educate dean about basic economics. here's what we have to understand. whether we're talking about minimum wage, whether we're

talking about this overtime reg, whether we're talking about all the mandates and costs and taxes with obamacare, in this country, we are making it more and more expensive to hire workers, we're making ourselves more like france, italy, greece and places like that. and guess what? are the job markets there good? do workers have upward mobility? no. we are copying the failed model of western europe when we should be trying to copy singapore and hong kong where there is a lot of upward mobility. people get a chance. they climb the ladder because the burden of government is small. >> see, dean, i'm going to argue that whatever the good intentions are, there are better ways to achieve them that won't violate the legal sanctity and free enterprise of american companies. >> but we've been here before. >> but that's what i object to. >> we had great growth, we had higher minimum wage. >> we had good growth because jfk cut taxes in the '60s.

>> we had good growth even in the '50s before he cut taxes. we had rapidly rising wages. >> we had three recessions in the 1950s. but this whole system -- look, listen to what i'm saying. i know it's been done. i know it's been done. what i'm saying is i don't like the precedent. and i feel like i have to speak out. and i believe that president obama is doing this deliberately as an executive decision to make something kind of statement among other things because this whole obamacare flat form, the apple of his eye, the whole legislative thing is falling apart. so how he's trying to look like a tough guy and he's violating freedom. dean, he's violating freedom. that's my problem with this. it's not the money. >> he's just making it symmetric. the minimum wage law is already on the books. he's just applying it across the board. republicans can try to repeal the minimum wage law, but he's just applying it across the board rather than having this peculiarity where i can pay a

worker $800 a week and say you don't get overtime if i pay him $20 an hour and they get overtime. doesn't make any sense. >> dan mitchell, the cbo, which is coming to its senses, scored the minimum wage a job loser. scored obamacare as a job loser. i bet you they would score this as a job loser. >> they probably would. and this gets at the underlying issue. frederick bostiac talked about it 200 years ago. difference between the seen anden seen. dean wants us to focus on the fact, yes, some workers will get more money with the minimum wage hike. some workers will benefit with the overtime reg. but some workers will lose their jobs. they will get 100% zero. >> but they get more when they do work. >> but there is a cost. someone will bear it. and businesses are not full pocket entities that can deal with all the ferairy dust comin

out of washington. >> i got to get out. dean, i know we disagree. i'm just telling you, somebody has to stand up and make a fight about this stuff. that's all. i respect your point of view. i just think this is dead. thanks. you're both great. i'm larry kudlow. thanks for watching. we'll be back tomorrow night, we have house budget chairman paul ryan. nnouncwho are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. turning dreamers into business owners. can you start tomorrow? yes sir. alright. let's share the news tomorrow. today we failrly busy. tomorrow we're booked solid. we close on the house tomorrow.

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[ male announcer ] find out how fast aflac can pay you >> narrator: in this episode of "american greed"... carlos perez-olivo, a lawyer with a silver tongue... >> he had a gift -- his voice, his diction. he was an actor. >> narrator: ...and solid-gold taste. >> even though i made a lot of money, i spent a lot of money. >> narrator: but when he's disbarred for fleecing desperate clients, he finds another way to make money... >> oh, my goodness. he's really that greedy. >> narrator: ...and proves that greed really is a deadly sin. >> you have a disbarred lawyer. you have a slain wife. you have a mistress. you have a life insurance policy. just an unbelievably gripping saga.